They Don't Come Much Tougher Than That: Cubs 4, Pirates 5
So I'm screaming at the TV -- OK, not screaming, because it's late and I should be sleeping because it's late and I have to get up at 3:30 am for work on Sunday, and it was more like beseeching -- "Put Bay on! Put Bay on!"
Well, the Cubs didn't put Jason Bay on base in the 14th inning, even though the winning run was already on third base and Bay had already homered last night and he's been a Cub-killer ever since the very first game he played against the Cubs on September 19, 2003 (which was also the only time I've been in PNC Park), and he smacked a ball way over everyone's head which normally would have been a double, but instead became a game-winning RBI single and the Pirates beat the Cubs in 14 innings, 5-4.
(Before I go any further, thanks to BCB reader CubbyBlues for posting the extra innings thread.)
The game was lost, really, far before the 14th inning, and you can name any number of turning points:
- Jason Marquis' "one bad pitch", thrown to Bay in the fourth inning, hit for a two-run HR, to give the Pirates a 2-1 lead at the time (credit where credit is due: other than that, I thought Marquis threw pretty well last night);
- That "lefty power bat", Micah Hoffpauir, striking out with one out, the tying runs having already scored in the 8th, and the lead run on base;
- Alfonso Soriano getting picked off second base after leading off the 9th with a double;
- Kerry Wood, for the third time this year, hitting the first batter he faced (Doug Mientkiewicz), and for the third time after doing this, the Cubs lost. STOP DOING THIS!
- Jim Edmonds' lazy fly ball ball leading off the 11th, batting for Wood. Two or three years ago, Edmonds would have hit that pitch over Nate McLouth's head, or maybe even into the seats. Hey, Jim and Lou: Edmonds is done. D-O-N-E done. Move on, please.
- What was Lou thinking, double-switching Derrek Lee out of the game? Yes, Henry Blanco has played first base before. But Blanco couldn't handle Ryan Theriot's low throw on Freddy Sanchez' grounder leading off the 14th, and that wound up being the winning, unearned run. (D-Lee would have made that play, and it wound up being an error on Theriot.)
I'm beginning to wonder about Lou. Did you see the way he trudged out to the mound twice in the 12th, to relieve Jon Lieber with Scott Eyre, and then after Eyre did his job (a sweet-looking K of Adam LaRoche), again to replace Eyre with Michael Wuertz? Lou looked whipped, tired, like he'd rather have been back in his hotel room ordering room service. And really, he should have been. Perhaps the two biggest gaffes of the ones I listed above were Soriano's and Wood's. You just can't get picked off when you're in scoring position in that situation. That could have easily led to an insurance run, which would have made Wood's HBP less critical. I'll just say it again: KERRY, PLEASE STOP DOING THIS! The AP game recap confirms my feeling about Lou:
Cubs manager Lou Piniella, citing fatigue, declined to talk to reporters after the game.
This Cub team has shown remarkable resilience, and they have often come back from tough losses to win the next day. Do that today and they'll have a .500 road trip, which is about all I hoped for and wanted when this one began.
Finally, there was one moment in last night's game -- and this would have been the lead had the Cubs won -- that really shows how players react in much the same way that we do when we're watching. Did you see this? After Carlos Marmol struggled with his control with the first batter he faced, Bay, he threw a slider with his first pitch to LaRoche. There was a moment -- just a moment -- when he turned around and the CF camera caught his body language saying, "I've got it now!" He knew he had figured it out. I sat there thinking, "LaRoche has no chance." And he didn't -- Marmol threw the identical pitch for strike two, and then, with LaRoche apparently standing there sitting on another slider, Marmol blew him away with a 95 MPH fastball, and then for good measure struck out Jason Michaels with a nasty curve.
In this season where all things seem possible, there have been more moments like that than moments like that bad 14th inning. Keep the faith. More good things to come. A game thread will be up in a couple of hours.
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Take 'em one game at a time.
We’ll get em tomorrow. It’s tough, and we really do need to beat them, but these games happen. Don’t panic. I hate saying this but it is, in fact, too early to start panicking.
That being said, we really need to head back to Wrigley.
"I'm like the tide baby: I come and go as I please." --Johnny Drama
by cubs2234 on May 25, 2008 8:16 AM CDT 0 recs
Two other key plays
Blanco’s failure to get a sac bunt down in the 13th after the first two Cubs had reached.
Theriot’s break the wrong way on a hit and run with Ramirez up that subsequently turned into a DP.
cubs2234 – your post appeared as I was writing this – they need to win on the road, too. At least .500. They have played 5 more games at home and the schedule late in the year has a lot of road games. Getting back to Chicago won’t always be the cure.
by Shanghai Badger on May 25, 2008 8:18 AM CDT 0 recs
I see points in what you both are saying.
Yes, one game doesn’t make a season. It’s a marathon not a sprint.
But on the other hand, the loss exposed some of the fundamental flaws with Cubs this year. These flaws could come back and haunt the Cubs over the rest of the season or post season if they are not addressed.
That being said GO CUBS!
by Madison Cub Fan on May 25, 2008 8:28 AM CDT 0 recs
last night
i can handle…wood blowing up and even losing. i can handle periods of hot and cold hitting but what i cant handle is any freaking more of those brain dead base running plays and jason marquis on this team. dear hendry plz admit it was a bad signing and dump him please.
one positive note—i think mlb should suspend marmol for that pitching performance last night. its almost like cheating. that was filthy and absolutely not hittable by anyone. j/k about the suspending part but omg wowwww.
It might beeeeee!! It could beeeeeee!! It issssss!! Homerun!! Holyyyyyyy Cow!!!
by cubsluver22 on May 25, 2008 8:44 AM CDT 0 recs
marmol was INCREDIBLE
i was laughing and shaking my head at almost every pitch he threw after the leadoff walk – just insane. remember, he used to be a starter (any “joba-transition” like thoughts? i doubt it lol) and has developed into a way less hyped, WAAAAAAAAAAAY better set-up man than “prince joba.”
i remember the day we signed marquis. it basically sucked out all of my excitement from the fonzie signing b/c i knew jason would suck. that said, he IS giving us a chance to win lately in his starts and that is really all you can ask (even if he is overpaid…i can’t believe i just gave marquis some credit).
"I'll play any day. I don't care if I'm 0-for-30, playing baseball is my PASSION. I'll go out and play." - Geo Soto
by CubbyBlues on
May 25, 2008 8:49 AM CDT
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Lou is an overmanager
Plain and simple. I appreciate that he’s in the game, and he’s thinking, but come on guy! You don’t have to make a double-switch every single time just because you can. I don’t know anyone who didn’t think swapping Lee out for Blanco wouldn’t come back to bite us.
And worse still – in Blanco’s first at bat, he was used to sacrifice bunt. Not only is that something any of our pitchers could have done… but he failed at it anyway!
by AceCubbie on May 25, 2008 8:47 AM CDT 0 recs
What made me mad
Was that we finally broke through and took the lead late, and we fumbled it back. Sori getting picked off started the cascade of mistakes, that potential run was HUGE. As soonn as Kerry hit the lead off man, I was screaming, take him out. And then he gives up a solid single to the next hitter. We have seen this movie before. I understand you need to leave him in there to work through it and put an end to the lead off HBP/losing the game scenario, but I felt better after the inning ended with the game tied. Didn’t see the remainder after that, but saw the lowlights later. Yes, Lou is a great manager, and we wouldn’t be atop the Central last year or this year without him, but, boy, has he done some crazy things this year. I remember Don Zimmer and Jim Frey going against the grain, going with their gut instincts and for the most part succeeding, but Lou just seems lost/tired out there at times.
All I can say is, thank freaking God for Marmol.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on May 25, 2008 8:47 AM CDT 0 recs
I thought Marquis was fine
giving up an early dinger to a notorious Cub killer didn’t bother me. I knew that wouldn’t be the final score.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on
May 25, 2008 8:49 AM CDT
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Once again...
... the Cubs leave another loss on the field. This is happening far too often, though. Perhaps this is a ridiculous thing to say of the team thats tied for the best record in the NL, but that doesn’t change the facts. The Cubs have had a few prolonged stretches now where they simply have failed to execute and even in many of the games that they have won, the Cubs have left too many runners on base and have failed to cash in on potential big innings.
Last night was piss poor all around. Bad in-game strategy by Lou, which is likely why he refused to talk to the media… he knows he managed a poor game. But the Cubs had bad base running, an inability to drive in runs, and several other bad plays.
The Cubs are now again tied for first but the Cubs need to look in the mirror and realize that they should have at least a 5 game lead in this division.
DmL
by dmlichte on May 25, 2008 8:49 AM CDT 0 recs
I don't think it's that simple w/ Marquis. Edmonds yes, Marquis no.
I am no fan of his, but I think if there was someplace for him to be traded he would have been.
Edmonds experiment should be over.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 25, 2008 8:50 AM CDT 0 recs
Agreed
On top of the Edmonds experiment failing miserably, Pie is now sucking in AAA. Hopefully, he can get it back together and get back to the big club before we ruin him.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on
May 25, 2008 8:52 AM CDT
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Up until last night I thought cwers (SP?) was a lil to tough on Theriot
after last night game. I now agree him. There is a pattern there. Couple that w/ the fact that I would like to see if cedano as a full time player stays onedec or falls back into his old ways.
by Madison Cub Fan on May 25, 2008 8:56 AM CDT 0 recs
riot hurt us last night
he is grounding into DPs a lot lately, and is getting caught stealing way too much. also, he’s not hitting lately in general. ronny has been showing off his slick glove, and even when he doesn’t get a hit you can basically put him down for a quality AB as he is a master at spoiling pitches. still, riots numbers look good right now and until they really fall off we are going to have to be patient for ronny’s rise.
"I'll play any day. I don't care if I'm 0-for-30, playing baseball is my PASSION. I'll go out and play." - Geo Soto
by CubbyBlues on
May 25, 2008 9:05 AM CDT
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Why all the Theriot bashing? He is batting .315 and the guy tries hard.
Only Big Z and Cedeno have a higher BA—with much fewer ABs. I agree that Cedeno may be the better option in SS, but it’s not Ryan’s fault that he comes to the ballpark every day and sees his name on the lineup card.
by zevkalman on
May 25, 2008 9:07 AM CDT
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Theriot kills the team on defense.
If he was at 2B, no problem, but his lack of range and arm strength at SS is a detriment and was a major factor in the loss last night.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 25, 2008 9:26 AM CDT
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Never were words better spoken. You simply cannot do in the 14 inning what he did last night.
by muffman on
May 25, 2008 9:48 AM CDT
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agreed
Theriot on defense hurts. Coupled with his repeated pick offs while trying to steal bases… feh. A big frustrated feh.
It's fun to be a Cub right now. -- Mark DeRosa
by Emelie on
May 25, 2008 9:50 AM CDT
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Matter of time?
I think Theriot is a slump away from losing significant playing time to Cedeño. Once/If his average drops below .300 his overall numbers will start looking a lot less nice and perhaps Cedeño’s chance will come. We shall see.
by Luis on
May 25, 2008 9:52 AM CDT
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Agreed.
Lou has shown a proclivity to play the hot hand and if Theriot were to hit a slump, I’d hope Lou would slot Ronny in there.
Look, I don’t hate anyone on this team; I wish them all well, but it gets frustrating when I have to watch the same person make the same mistakes game in and game out. It’s the same reason I was frustrated with Ronny the past two seasons. Now Ronny’s turned it around and I’m firmly in his corner. I don’t root against Theriot and I’m certainly not happy when he fails, because his failures can mean a loss, and I hate losing.
So please don’t misconstrue my criticisms of Theriot as hate for our diminutive SS, but rather as a hatred for losing.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 25, 2008 10:00 AM CDT
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Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. How does anyone improve themsellfwithout it? I too, hate losing. And I do not hate anyone on this team.
by muffman on
May 25, 2008 10:07 AM CDT
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well...
ok, but how many Cubs players are reading this board?
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 25, 2008 10:07 AM CDT
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Ronnie's mistake-prone as well...
But, he has a MUCH better arm to play SS than Theriot.
I’d like for Lou to start playing them both at SS, and occasionally play Theriot at 2B with Ronnie at SS, while giving DeRosa a day off.
Let them continue to compete… the competition will bring out the best in their performances. The same sort of competition is doing wonders for the St Louis outfield.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on
May 25, 2008 10:19 AM CDT
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FWIW...
... although that error in the 14th was charged to Theriot, I think D-Lee would have handled that throw. That’s the value of having a great glove at 1B.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 25, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
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Yabbut,
That’s a pretty routine play for a SS. We shouldn’t even be talking about whether or not Lee would have scooped it; Theriot’s got to be able to make that throw—and he couldn’t do it.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 25, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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Agreed.
Nevertheless, my point stands. Mark Grace used to make Shawon Dunston look good by catching some errant throws from him that other 1B wouldn’t have gotten to. Lee does the same thing now. That’s why it takes a team to win.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 25, 2008 11:07 AM CDT
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Absolutely.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 25, 2008 11:11 AM CDT
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Yes. Lee likely would've had it.
And, it the Blanco switch was an odd replacement.
However, in general, Cedeno probably has better range and a better arm for SS than Theriot. With both guys hitting well, I’d like to see Cedeno get more playing time by increasing the competition in the middle infield.
Also, last year, we saw Theriot wear out at times. The competition will keep guys fresh, without theoretically compromising on offense.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on
May 25, 2008 11:18 AM CDT
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Had you told me during spring training
that Dempster and Onedec would be players that I enjoyed seeing play….. I would have thought you were on drugs.
btw I love your tag line!!!!!
by Madison Cub Fan on May 25, 2008 9:07 AM CDT 0 recs
Lots of mistakes yesterday
Lou taking out Lee for Blanco was awful. At that very moment I got a very bad feeling.
Something important that hasn’t been talked about was Wood’s decision to throw a fastball with two strikes. The guy got a sac fly. I think Wood hit the batter with the breaking stuff and probably got weary of throwing it again. But with a guy with two strikes and less than 3 balls you gotta go for the strikeout threre (especially since Wood is a flyball pitcher). To be honest, I don’t have a lot of confidence when Wood is throwing primarily fastballs. He can hit 95-96 but it doesn’t move and guys can hit that pretty hard.
Still, what did the Cubs get? 11 hits + 7 BB? that would usually get the job done. Hopefully today is a different story.
by Luis on May 25, 2008 9:46 AM CDT 0 recs
cubs
tough loss,very tough.wood has never been perfect and never will be.you wont see the switch with marmol though because of egos.edmonds should be released and im sure he will be. teams dont seem so reluctant to eat salaries if a player does,nt get the job done.the cards and astros wont go away so we need to keep piling on the wins in case we need the wildcard.and watch out next month in tampa. these rays are for real.i might have to come back to chicago with the team if the rays beat them.
by NOMAR on May 25, 2008 9:55 AM CDT 0 recs
I don't think it has anything to do with egos
Marmol pitches where he does because his job is actually MORE difficult—half the time, he’s coming on in the middle of an inning with RISP. And he’s lights-out 90% of the time.
Woody can’t do that. Woody comes in at the beginning of an inning and if he’s on, he dominates. If he’s not, he struggles. You can’t put him in Marmol’s spot, because that role needs ABSOLUTE DOMINANCE. We’d give up a lot more 1-run leads if the roles were switched.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 25, 2008 9:59 AM CDT
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Exactly.
Well said.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 25, 2008 10:01 AM CDT
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Ronny Cedeno
If you recall in spring training Lou commented on Cedeno. “I like Cedeno, I really do. I just think it`s time he got serious about baseball.” Well i believe this year Ronny has got the message loud and clear. He has done a 360* at the plate usually making the pitcher pitch. He now sees long counts and thus his avg. and obp are where they should be. Hats off to Lou, he knows how to motivate.
by muffman on May 25, 2008 10:00 AM CDT 0 recs
He's definitely
elevated both Theriot’s (at least at the plate) and Ronny’s games. Maybe he can pull this string all year and get the most out of both guys, but at some point, talent should win out and Ronny should have the job. He’s just a better SS than Theriot, who is more suited to 2B.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 25, 2008 10:04 AM CDT
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I agree and that takes nothing away from Ryan. Anyone who knows baseball can see Ryan`s range and arm strength are below average for a major league shortstop. 2nd. base would be a perfect fit for him.
by muffman on
May 25, 2008 10:13 AM CDT
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so
Lou doesn’t know baseball?
I’m not disagreeing with you—I’d prefer to see Theriot become the utility bench IF, and put Onedec at short instead, leaving DeRosa at 2nd. But It’s obviously not as simple as Anyone who knows baseball can see Ryan`s range and arm strength are below average for a major league shortstop.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 25, 2008 10:16 AM CDT
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cubs
we,re lucky to have a good record.for a while it seemed like we were losing every series.it,s a long season full of thrills,good times and bad times.sometimes i think it,s longer for us than the players.see you all in tampa.go cubs.watch out for kazmir and shields.the cubs need to be on top of their game for this one.
by NOMAR on May 25, 2008 10:03 AM CDT 0 recs
Glad to see
some of you are finally coming around on Theriot. He has a 2nd basemens arm. Wood, stop hitting people. Lou, stop taking Lee out of the game.
by Rick B on May 25, 2008 10:05 AM CDT 0 recs
Pretty sure
Lou won’t be taking Lee for Blanco again this season. It was a bad move at the time, and since it came back to hunt the team, hopefully he learned his lesson.
by Luis on
May 25, 2008 10:06 AM CDT
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Also,
Cub baserunners:
Stop getting picked off. Soriano getting picked off at 2B last night was a gut punch, even though he looked safe (but if the throw beats you, you’re out, no questions asked). That hurt, as did Theriot’s CS. Cub baserunners are still pretty careless on the basepaths.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 25, 2008 10:07 AM CDT
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if the throw beats you, you’re out, no questions asked
not necessarily…but usually.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
May 25, 2008 12:47 PM CDT
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Calm Down Everyone (You too, Al)
It’s one game. It seems whenever there’s a tough loss all the naysayers come out.
Yes, Edmonds is likely done. Whether or not he would have hit that first pitch far a few years ago, I would think a guy who hasn’t been playing would take a few pitches and be more selective at that point in a game. Yes, Wood has a proclivity for hitting guys, and Kasper mentioned it just before it happened again. Yes, Brenly would have walked Bay as well, because once they started pitching to him, Brenly said nothing for 2-3 pitches, indicating his disapproval.
But for heaven’s sake. The Cubs are what, 9-2 against Pittsburgh now? We all know every game is important, and if this had happened in September the angst would be more appropriate. But it’s early enough still to fix some of these things. Hendry, if not Piniella, likely won’t tolerate Edmonds much longer. Lou was seen having an intense talk with Wood, presumably about throwing sliders to left handers as Brenly assumed.
They’re tied for first, even with all the faults. I’d rather be the Cubs than any other N.L. team right now. After all, thank God we’re not Brewers fans.
Santo Forever!
by BeerCub on May 25, 2008 10:30 AM CDT 0 recs
Oh, believe me, I am calm.
But that one was tough, very tough.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 25, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
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LSA!
"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella
by anormal on
May 25, 2008 11:32 AM CDT
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The Blanco-Lee switch was mind boggling
Agree with you there BCB. Would rather have had him PH Zambrano in the near spot and leave Lee in the game. The idea that Blanco batting for the pitcher would be that dramatic of an improvement to take Lee out of the game was a true blunder, compounded with an awful bunt that killed the inning. Bad, bad baseball move.
by BeltwayCubsFan on May 25, 2008 10:48 AM CDT 0 recs
WHO WAS GOING TO PITCH?
There was no one left in the bullpen except for Ascanio! SOMEONE had to come out. Lee had just batted in the previous inning, and Soto was hitting well!
It was NOT A BLUNDER. It was the best of a series of poor choices—are you going to put Blanco in Right Field? Perhaps he could have played shortstop?
I agree that sometimes Lou overmanages. I actually wish he’d left Lieber in , rather than Eyre, which would have saved a pitcher, and possibly cause other good things to happen. But you cannot point to this and suggest that it was a critical error ignores the bad outing by Marquis, the bad throw from Theriot, the couldn’t-have-been-worse-timing-k from DeRosa with the bases loaded…
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 25, 2008 10:57 AM CDT
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I agree completely
Blanco-for-Lee was the worst of many mistakes, so I blame Lou for this one. Before the switch he has one “position” player left and by making the switch he’s pre-determining that the next inning will be the most imporatant time to pinch-hit for a pitcher. Who knows how long this is gonna go, and you opponent already will be batting pitchers for the rest of the game.
As it turned out he had two on and no outs, and a pitcher could have bunted. Then he’d still have Blanco on the bench and Lee in the game. I’m not saying this from a hindsight postition; I’m saying that Lou did not have the foresight to know when he would need his last player, and by making the move he removes a key offensive, defensive, team leader, etc.
by JoToPo on
May 25, 2008 11:04 AM CDT
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what's your favorite beverage? Coca-Cola perhaps?
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
May 25, 2008 12:48 PM CDT
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Is it more a matter of smarts?
Wood almost hit Mientkiewicz on the previous pitch. Soriano doesn’t have to advance even if the bunt gets down. Edmonds could have looked at a pitch or two (leading off the inning, Capps had just struck out?). Double switch with anyone in an extra inning game other than Lee (1 to 3 spots earlier in the lineup?). The little things. There’s enough talent here to pressure the other team, not handicap us.
"This field, this game...it reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again." ~ Terence Mann
by chr15 on May 25, 2008 11:01 AM CDT 0 recs
Lou
I only saw the last few innings of the game last night, but I was glad to read Al’s comments about Lou’s appearance in the later stages of the game last night. I don’t know if Lou had a meal that didn’t agree with him, or if he has the flu or a more serious health problem, but he looks terrible. On one of his trips to the mound, he staggered and almost seemed to lose his way. At first I thought it was a stalling tactic, but then it became obvious he was really struggling. I hope he is alright. At his age, he is carrying way too much weight around the middle, and he may well have blood pressure or other issues. I don’t know if he smokes or not, but I hope not.
As far as taking Lee out of the game, I think on that same trip to the mound I saw an exchange between Lou and Lee and although I could not read their lips, the expressions on their faces led me to think that Lee had asked to be taken out. Maybe he is nursing an injury of some sort. I doubt Lou takes Lee out of a game like that unless there are extenuating circumstances and/or Lee is asking to be taken out. It’s a long season and many, many more battles to be fought and Derrek Lee is a warrior.
by azjazzman on May 25, 2008 11:40 AM CDT 0 recs

















