These things will happen...

by LaddieRenfroe on May 26, 2008 6:24 AM CDT

…when you put a bad defender in left field.

…I was listening to the game today, on the radio, and I can only hope that driver in front me wasn’t too alarmed when I slammed my forehead against the steering wheel, sounding the horn…perhaps he wondered, “does that jackass think I should run a red light?”

Anyway, I was listened to the game and then 720's various post-game shows. After forsaking all reason and going on a Mike-North-style rant, Jim Memolo tried to stem the tide of angry callers by remembering the various bad outfielders that the Cubs have employed. Specifically, he kept bringing up Derrick May, of all people.

After the mention of bad defensive outfielders (Henry Rodriguez and George Bell were noted), I thought of one point and also have one question…

1. Glenallen Hill was the worst defensive major leaguer that I have ever seen. He was genuinely scared of the ball…and spiders…Soriano's defense is a wet dream compared to the nightmare that was Glenallen Hill...

2. I then got to thinking about bad outfielders and how difficult it is to appraise an outfielder’s defensive skills from watching most of the games on TV. For example, Moises Alou would make running catches which looked great through the narrow window of television. But watching him from the stands, you’d notice that he reached the ball only by a tentative route, run in a series of right angles. In other words, Alou always struck me as the best example of a player that looked good on TV but lousy from the stands. So, my question is…how does having to watch most games on TV distort the fan’s perspective of a player’s defensive abilities? Is that distortion greater for infielders or outfielders? Is this why people think that a sure-handed but relatively immobile shortstop such as Jeter is actually a plus defender?

Well, that’s three questions…but I can’t helping ask one more…do Al or any other fans that sit in the bleachers regularly have any unique insights on outfield defense, as opposed to those of us that sit in the grandstand?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Tougher to Gauge OF's on TV

On TV, you rarely get to see how deep or shallow an OF is playing. Getting a good jump is so important in catching a fly ball. The TV doesn’t get a shot of the OF until the OF is well on his way to pursuing the ball. Being there in person does help in evaluating an OF’s true ability.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on May 26, 2008 7:32 AM CDT reply actions

Gauging infielders is tough too...

...because, while the camera cuts to them more quickly than it does to outfielders, the viewer can’t get a sense of their initial positioning. The announcers will only mention positioning if there’s a shift on or with an offhand comment such as that the infield is “in at the corners”. Watching on TV, we’re focused exclusively on the batter and the pitcher while, if we are at the park, we could take a look around at the fielders between pitches. I don’t know which set of positions are actually tougher to gauge, although my opinion is that we’re at least more likely to overrate outfielders based on TV impressions because we can’t see the routes that they take to the ball, only the last few strides and then the catch.

by LaddieRenfroe on May 26, 2008 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions

Got to Be At the Park

Sandberg was a prime example of an infielder who looked better in person. I saw him play in person in St. Louis a few times. I could not believe how much ground Ryno could cover going up the middle. He did not have to dive for balls. Dunston made more made for TV spectacular plays. Nobody would say Dunston was a better SS than Sandberg was a 2B. Diving makes the “web gems” reel. On TV, you can’t gauge an infielder’s quickness. That’s of critical importance for all IF’s, especially 3B. You’ve just got to be there.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on May 26, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions

Thanks for bringing up Ryno...

During his defensive prime in the mid to late 80s, I wasn’t old enough to appreciate any difference between seeing him live and watching on TV. I always remember him going way out into short RF and making that play look routine and, thinking about it now, I definitely didn’t understand just how far he to go to make that play.

by LaddieRenfroe on May 26, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions

About OF defense at Wrigley Field...

... you have to have no fear of the wall. I have seen at least two visiting OF that I can remember - Preston Wilson and Brett Butler - crash fullspeed into the wall running after balls. Neither was hurt seriously. But you are asking this in the context of Alfonso Soriano, who isn’t that graceful an OF to begin with, and who also has a fear of the wall (apparently, from how he played it last year). Given that and his poor play lately and the likelihood that he is still not 100% “confident” in his legs, maybe it’s time for him to go back on the DL.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 26, 2008 8:05 AM CDT reply actions

Is he likely to be DL'ed, though?

He had a pretty good weekend with the bat. If they were to make a move, does that make a statement about his defense—and if it does, how does he respond? It seems like (seems – I don’t claim to know) Piniella avoids taking him out for defense because he doesn’t want to plant a seed in Soriano’s head or make him “feel bad”. Would a DL stint do the same thing?

On a side note, it’s interesting to see the reactions. Some people think Soriano is a horrible player and they rip any statement that defends him. Others seem to think he’s beyond reproach and anyone who criticizes any aspect of his game is a “hater”. Seems like the truth is somewhere in between.

by Shanghai Badger on May 26, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions

That's a very good question.

Yes, Soriano’s defense cost the Cubs the game. OTOH, if he doesn’t hit the 2-run HR, the Cubs don’t even get to the last of the 9th.

At a certain point, a manager has to MANAGE and do what’s best for the team and not worry about hurt feelings. We all like to blast a certain manager in St. Louis, but I have no doubt that he’d do this and not think twice about it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 26, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree with you -- but not sure they'll do it.

Was watching at my parents’ house and said they should take him out for defense but they won’t.

I don’t see why not; he’s paid to hit 30-40 HR/year and he’s going to do that. No one thinks he’s a gold glover, so why not make the switch? He’s not here for his fielding and you don’t lose offense in the 9th inning of a game you’re leading if the lead is held.

by Shanghai Badger on May 26, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions

LSA

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 26, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions

Any Botanists here?

Is it possible to grow ivy over a padded wall? Seriously, ivy can climb over a lot of things.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 26, 2008 8:23 AM CDT reply actions

I'd tend to doubt it...

... especially since that would mean they’d have to take all the ivy down, put pads up, then put it back.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 26, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions

Plus

Sori seemed to shy away from a padded wall, so I’m not sure that it would help in that regard.

by Shanghai Badger on May 26, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions

Well I was half-joking

maybe itd be an offseason project..ha

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 26, 2008 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions

I've sat in the bleachers before and...

It does provide a different prospective.

by wrigleyrocker12 on May 26, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions

Soriano's Defense

Soriano is a mediocre defender and having problems with his leg isn’t helping him this season. They should have kept him on the DL longer and then do a rehab stint in the minors. The Cubs training staff isn’t being allowed to make the call or they didn’t make the right call.

I don’t think Soriano’s level of awareness or fear of the outfield wall is necessarily a negative. So the next OF isn’t aware, or isn’t afraid, or bangs into the wall. Does that mean the next OF catches the ball? Does that mean the next OF throws it in as fast and to the right place/player? Does that mean the next OF is less likely to get shaken-up or injured? Being afraid of the wall could make a difference in certain situations, but probably doesn’t overall.

by AboutTheCubs on May 26, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions

word is

he refused a minor-league stint. Derek Lee did the same thing last year, I believe.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 26, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Thanks

and if that’s the case, it doesn’t surprise me.

by AboutTheCubs on May 26, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions

it's within their rights

to do so. Doesn’t mean it’s smart.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions

Hey Chill..

Hey chill out its the end of May every team is gonna win 50 and lose 50 its the other 62 we are all fighting for.

Grant Earnhart

by ernie87 on May 26, 2008 2:48 PM CDT reply actions

I don't want to dwell on Soriano in particular...

...which is why I titled the fanpost “These things will happen.” If we wanted, we could post all day and night about the tradeoff between his bat and defense.

Ryne Sandberg and Dunston were mentioned above as examples of players whose abilities were distorted by TV, Dunston looking better and Ryne looking less spectacular. Can anybody else cite other past or current players that were under or overappreciated because of this effect?

Jeter comes to mind as a possibility but I personally haven’t seen him play live enough to say…

What about Edmonds? Those gold gloves and circus catches, like the one in Houston last week, give the impression that he’s one of the great CFs of his generation. Does the perception match the reality? I haven’t watched him from the stands too much, let alone regularly, so I’m hesitant to answer one way or another.

by LaddieRenfroe on May 26, 2008 3:48 PM CDT reply actions