We'll Have An Extra-Inning Ballgame Today

I remember a book that was written by Jim Enright about the 1969 Cubs where he specifically credited the late season collapse to the inordinate number of doubleheaders played by the Cubs that year. Obviously not the same as extra inning games, but there could be some interesting discussion about the correlation of extra innings ( in this case twice the normal number) played on a single day and the effect on the team.

The again, maybe there isn’t any.

but in today’s game, it’s becoming necessary when starting pitchers have a good game when they go 6 innings. Of course, MLB won’t spend the extra money but it appears to be time to increase the rosters to 26. That allows for 12 pitchers and a 6 man bench.

Who can play a number of positions effectively. Theriot also can play SS, 2B, and RF (as he did last year for a minute). And Cedeno can play both middle infield positions, and has taken practice in the outfield.

1/3 into the season it is time for that assessment to take a team to the September run. I think starting with the bench; first is what will be the situation regarding Darrell Ward. Last year we saw that Blanco did not recover to be useful and this is something that needs attention of where, what and whether he returns. The other item is Fontenot. Now that Cedeno has secured the top utility status on the infield, Fonty is on the cusp. Cubs need another left-handed (or switch-hitting bat) to replace him but in the OF, preferably someone better than Soriano with the glove for the 9th inning.

Of course that glove could be Reed Johnson if the Cubs had another CF’er, preferably a true starting CF’er. Edmonds has 3 hits in 20 AB’s, I have seen two of them, both humpback liners to left and left center. His bat is slow it is over for him. And please don’t bring up Pie until August at least when he has shown a new and accomplished ability at the plate.

I think the short answer is find a CF’er in the next month who bats from the left-side and bring up Patterson who can play both 2B & some OF. Real answer is unknown now? One answer might be Freel another is Figgins (who is being rumored).

Lineup; Fukudome has survived in the 5th spot until this past week and needs to move to the top of the order. Soriano ironically is hitting with Men on base pretty effectively while Theriot has a good OBP. The Cubs offense is now sputtering after riding DLee, Soto and Soriano’s very hot periods but now they are settling into the grind. My suggestion is move Theriot to the leadoff, Fukudome, DLee, Ramirez, Soriano, Soto, Edmonds(???), DeRosa. If Theriot fades than insert DeRosa in the #2 and Theriot back of the lineup.

Still Cubs need a real CF’er.

Starting pitching: Z, Lilly, Dempster are fine, in fact ‘Demp’ as DLee called him last night on GN, is doing fine…Marquis is just and forever OKAY, Gallagher is also work in progress but neither of those two are playoff caliber pitchers. I don’t expect Hill to be an option until well after the ASB but reality is September.

So what gives? This I am unsure. Lieber is not the answer either.

Bullpen; I think the next call up will be Cotts who is finally showing some real signs of command. That would mean moving a player and this is where the dealing can begin with the Cubs possessing value.

Wuertz(?) Lieber(?) Marquis(?) Marshall(?) Fontenot(?) Patterson(?) Hoffpauir(?) Gallagher(?) Pie(?)

Wuertz is already coveted by Detroit and probably other clubs who need relief pitching. With the progression of Ascanio Cubs have plenty of RHP relief arms (Wood, Marmol, Howry) and with Eyre where the Cubs add Cotts as the other LHP, bringing that to six. The 7th pitcher (SWING) is either Lieber/Marquis/Marshall/Gallagher (prefer Gallagher).

Marquis & Marshall conceivably in this triumvirate possess the most projected value. Marquis (along with some kind of $)offers IP’ed, Marshall the promise of a LHP who still has option years. Naturally Gallagher probably holds the most amount of value, but also to the Cubs.

Fontenot, Hoffpauir and Patterson are basically throw in’s.

Can this bag of players unearth a Figgins or Freel? (Of course Freel is RH)? Can they find a package to unearth a genuine rent-a-top-of-the-order pitcher?

But I just checked and the Cubs have had the lead at some point in each of their last 17 games. They are 11-6 in those games. I don’t think that is necessarily a sign of a bad bullpen/bench or anything like that. I think it is a sign that they are a good team that has a chance to win nearly every day.

The clowns over there were talking about how the hitting in the AL is significantly down and they attributed it ot the poor weather. That seemed odd to me as NL hitting is way up I have a hard time believing that weather at NL games has been better than weather at AL games, though I guess it is possible if more games happened to be scheduled in northern AL cities as the worse weather has hit them. In general, I think the weather for home White Sox games has been worse than home Cub games, but I still have a hard time believing that would be true throught the leagues..

Al, can you do any research on that? Just kidding.

The 18 inning zinger on Saturday against the Reds and Padres featured their top two starters, Edinson Volquez and Aaron Harang coming out of the bullpen. Dusty Baker abusing young arms? Never heard of it.

They just don’t make utility guys like Doug Dascenzo anymore.

Let me start with starting pitching. I don’t think we really need to worry about that when it comes to extra innings, as they are not the ones getting taxed. However, with a lack of a solid 4/5 we are eating the bullpen on those days….and then throw in the extra innings and things are even worse.

How do you solve that dilemma? I’d say Al’s post about using 4 starters and having another guy spot start 22 times a year is the best solution, because it gives you an extra arm in the bullpen.

Then there’s the bullpen getting taxed. I really can’t think of a solution except for the 5th starter being in the pen like Al’s post (man Al, you’re looking real smart).

And now for the bench….....I think it’s done pretty well so far this year. Cedeno is available to help out DeRosa/Theriot, and Ward is well….Ward if he gets healthy and stays that way. Having Hoffpaur (sp) and Pie available helps as well, so there shouldn’t ever be a real “big” need for another outfielder. Murton is available as well. Damn, I forgot all about him.

So, I think all in all, the only real need is bullpen help which could be solved if Lou took Al’s advice.

Regarding your analysis of extra inning games, shouldn’t you be comparing the 2008 season with the 2007 season as of May 26th? I think Len and Bob were talking about there being more extra inning games up to this point in time and not comparing this year to all of 2007.

TLR changed the game with the LOOGY, or the ‘specialist.’ Before the early 80s, relief pitchers routinely went 2 to 3 innings to get a save and nobody thought that to be unusual.

Now, pitchers come in to face one batter. Of course, you are going to run through your pitching staff in extra-inning games. Thank God the doubleheader is essentially, a thing of the past—teams, using modern-day pitching methods would over-use their pens to the max.

Of course, this begs the question - why could yesterday’s relief core (Gossage, Sutter, et all) pitch those innings without any ill effects, and NOW everybody is hot and bothered when their closer has to pitch back-to-back…..wow, if the guy’s effective - he might THROW 40 PITCHES IN TWO DAYS!

I just think we baby today’s pitchers. Some think we burn them out? I say they don’t pitch enough, and that’s when arms (and tender, fragile egos) blow. We baby pitchers so much, they are afraid to pitch. (And, I’m talking about YOU, Mr. Prior.)

Somebody with time on their hands—I’d love to see how the relief stars of the 60’s 70’s and 80s pitched on successive days,

How about Mike Marshall of the Dodgers, a relief ace who won the Cy Young in 1974?

From Wikipedia:

“Marshall led his league in games pitched four times, saves three times, and games finished five times. He is the holder of two major league records, both of which he set in the 1974 season: most appearances (games pitched) in a season (106), and most consecutive team games with a relief appearance (13).”

He was 15 and 12. Let me repeat that: 15 wins, 12 losses, 21 saves.

Marshall pitched in a staggering 106 games, pitching 209.3 innings. (ERA 2.42) That’s 2 innings per appearance. Would Marshall today—used as a modern day closer, have another 20-30 saves on his record?

Again, comparing eras is tricky - but which is the better, more durable relief core - those pitching multiple innings back then, or the one-batter/one inning fragile specialist we have now??

It’s all TLR’s fault. I blame him for changing the game, but not necessarily for the better.

And, this at the end of Marshall’s Wikipedia entry:

“Marshall attended Michigan State University, earning three degrees, including a Ph.D. in kinesiology. Marshall teaches and advocates a pitching method he developed that he “believes could completely eradicate pitching-arm injuries.”

Whatever he knows, it worked for him.

the Cubs were losing soooo many early games by 1 run at this time last year. Must have something to do with the new exploding bats and bad HR calls by the umps.

Tonight’s game is not on WGN, so I assume it’s on Comcast (and ESPN). ESPN doesn’t normally show the National Anthem, so I was wondering if someone could TiVo Michael Johns - assuming he sings as scheduled - and put it on YouTube.

Thanks.

has been changed to the 7:00 ESPN game?

Everyone who said there’s no accountability by Soriano for his misplay on Sunday can put a sock in it, to wit:

“Whatever happened in the game yesterday, stays,” he said. “After that, there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m the one who dropped the ball. It’s like [botching] a routine ground ball. There’s nothing I can do about it, but it happened, and it stays right there. Today is another day.”

...I’m going to throw some numbers out there and get some reactions. I’ll go ahead and offer them without comment.

Ryan Theriot:
Last 7 days – .154/.267/.154
Past 2 weeks – .240/.316/.280
All of May – .293/.383/.326

Thank goodness Dusty is their manager, not ours. They get to keep the .201 hitting Patterson as their leadoff guy, and dfa Hatteberg. In Dusty We Trusty!

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/05/27/ddn052708redsweb.html

And… he’s old.

So as there can be no confusion regarding my stance on the weighty issues that face our Cubs.

1. It was right to send down Felix Pie. He proved incapable of hitting major league pitching and is now a reclamation project. My guess is he never winds up hitting and becomes the next Alex Escobar and Ruben Mateo.

2. Center field is not the crisis need it is being made out to be. Reed Johnson is a good enough 4th outfielder doing his part to fill the need. Another 4th outfielder type who hits from the left side is needed to help him out. Nothing fancy, nothing expensive, definitely a short-termer.

3. Lou Piniella is outstanding in every dimension with the exception of his bizarre coddling of Alfonso Soriano. I love Sweet Lou.

4. Kosuke Fukudome is outstanding.

5. Mark DeRosa is the most underrated Cub on the roster.

6. Kerry Wood hasn’t performed good enough to be a closer on a playoff caliber team. It’s a problem in need of resolution.

7. There is screaming need for a quality starting pitcher.

8. Rich Harden should be aggressively pursued and I believe will be at some point.

9. Ryan Theriot has made me a believer. He is not a star, but he is an asset and a sparkplug on the Cubs.

10. Alfonso Soriano is a second-division star player who absolutely totally sucks on the Cubs. 3/4rd’s of the season he is a significant liability. A one tool hacking superstar. Hooray.

11. Aramis Ramirez remains the most important member of the Cub offense. His importance to this offense goes underreported.

12. Rich Hill is a two pitch pitcher.

13. Sean Marshall is nothing to write home about.

14. Matt Murton is a career Triple A ballplayer. The world would be better served if he would simply cut to the chase and begin his next career as salesman of Lady Kenmore appliances at the local Sears.

15. Cwyers and Dartmouthwhatever are two of the best informed poster on this site.

16. Al and MPH73 are the best posters on this site period.

17. Without me to keep the saber-magicians and drool monkeys in check, this blog is narrow minded and non-challenged opinion sharing with much less traffic. I am the straw that stirs the drink.

Who’s the emergency catcher at the moment? It was Murton…

Carrying a third catcher would be a real waste of a roster spot, especially with while trying to carry 12 pitchers. However, I hate seeing Zambrano pinch-hit and risk an injury because Lou feels forced to keep Blanco on the bench…and that’s already happened during a couple of the extra-inning games. Moreover, it’d be nice to simply take Soto out of those long games at some point and save him the wear and tear.

It makes me jealous of, say, the Marlins who have both Willingham and Jacobs playing other positions. Sure, you wouldn’t want either of those guys as your catcher but, in a long game, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about using the real backup catcher.

The days of Goose or Sutter getting three inning saves are over. LaRussa popularized the idea of the 1-inning closer with Eckersley in Oakland. Having relievers pitch only 1 inning I can understand. Putting relievers into games to retire only 1 hitter is micro-managing. This sets up a system that requires too many pitchers to be on a staff. Extend your specialists to two or three hitters. I’ve heard LH relievers have been known to get RH hitters out. RH relievers have been known to get LH hitters out. Six relievers should be the limit on a staff.

Wouldn’t that be terrifying?

Who cares? It must be a team thing. I dont see why fans would care at all how long the games are.

It’s been a real blood bath up there today, what was the post even about? Oh yeah the number of pitchers compared to bench players. Just to echo a stat from the Fergie Jenkins interview with Len and Bob, in 71’ Fergie had 30 complete games, I guess we wouldn’t be having this discussion if things hadn’t changed so much in 38 years. I guess in 2045 starting pitchers will be expected to go 3 innings in order to qualify for a “quality start”, if the trend continues of course.

We might need an overflow before the game starts….

my favorite line out of any of those is the “He’s a lover….” Great stuff.

I just wanted to go on record as being the last one to post in this post.

Hooray for me.

we will have someone complaining about I don’t get this “Last” thing.

I’m last.