My trade proposal for LH power
As has been discussed to death, there are few power-hitting outfielders available, even if the Cubs were looking to move Kosuke to centerfield.
I propose something different: a power-hitting second-baseman.
Rich Hill and Matt Murton for Kelly Johnson and Royce Ring.
Atlanta is playing well, but has a need at starting pitcher. They are loaded with LH power, with Jones, Teixiera, and McCann. Even Kotsay and Gregor Blanco are adding OBA from the left side. One of their prime prospects is Brent Lillibridge, currently a SS. They have an assortment of other potential 2Bmen: Ruben Gotay, Martin Prado, Omar Infante. Matt Diaz, their RH-hitting LFer, is struggling with a below-.600 OPS.
The Cubs could bat Johnson in the lower part of the order, with Fukudome moving up to the #2 spot. Kelly has had some minor injury problems, but DeRosa could play against lefties or fill in as needed. Now DeRosa has hit very well this year, but could see more regular time in RF, or just be the top bench guy.
I'm interested in your analysis.
UPDATE: Thanks for all the discussion. By the way, Matt Diaz went on the DL after being injured last night. The Braves might have some interest in Murton in a minor deal.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
0 recs |
176
comments
Comments
I hardly think Kelly Johnson is a power hitter
And we have enough middle infielders as it is….its too bad the Cubs couldntve put together something for Josh Hamilton, hed be perfect, of course I doubt the Reds wouldve traded him intra-divisionally, if thats a word.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on May 27, 2008 9:55 PM CDT 0 recs
Didn't we take Hamilton
in the Rule 5 and give him to the Reds? Too bad we didn’t have the foresight to keep him.
This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by HectorVillanueva on
May 27, 2008 10:11 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Been discussed
We had some kind of agreement with the Reds to take him for them. I don’t recall the details, or what we got in return.
by aldimond on
May 27, 2008 10:13 PM CDT
up
0 recs
We got the Reds to take Dusty and Corey in return
it just took longer than we thought to hammer out all the details before the deal could be completed…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
May 27, 2008 10:21 PM CDT
up
0 recs
LOL
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
May 27, 2008 10:45 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Well, the internets just ate a bunch of stats I tried to post
The point is, if you look at Johnson’s stats, he is very likely to peak over the next three years, ages 27-29 with about a .480-.500 SLG. He is there now against righties. He got a lot of doubles and triples to go with his 16 HR last year. He could surpass 20 HR this season. Actually, few outfielders in the league hit lefty with that kind of power.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on
May 27, 2008 10:19 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Hamilton is with Texas now anyway
having a good year too
by walsh2317 on
May 28, 2008 7:48 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Mark DeRosa
is our second baseman. He’s having a career year, and he’s one of the top hitters on the team, no matter what number he hits in the lineup.
Benching him or putting him in Right-Field all the time is a BIG MISTAKE.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 27, 2008 9:55 PM CDT 0 recs
ur right
2B is not an issue. Plus…......it takes more than our s&&^% to get a good player. Hill does not fill another clubs need for starting pitching….....we have a need and he can’t even stay on our MLB roster. Murton is at best a 4th OF
by plenz on
May 27, 2008 9:58 PM CDT
up
0 recs
That's quite a low evaluation of Hill
He’s going through a tough patch, apparently related to some back stiffness. But he’s still a LH strikeout pitcher with a few years until free agency.
If the Braves feel as you do, would you send them Gallagher for Johnson?
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on
May 27, 2008 10:22 PM CDT
up
0 recs
no
Gallagher is a potential #2 pitcher. I want him in our rotation.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 27, 2008 10:24 PM CDT
up
0 recs
IMHO… Until we know if Gllagher can develop his 2nd and 3rd pitches… I think it’s premature to say he is a future #2
I haz show: http://hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on
May 28, 2008 8:51 AM CDT
up
0 recs
he pitched very well yesterday.
in terrible conditions.
We need to keep him.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 28, 2008 10:02 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Those were great conditions for a pitcher.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."
by californiachicagoan on
May 28, 2008 1:17 PM CDT
up
0 recs
getting hit on the hand
is NOT a great condition. I understand the concepts of batting in the cold being awful, and the wind blowing in keeping fly balls in the park.
But it was cold, uncomfortable, and he kept it under control.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 28, 2008 1:18 PM CDT
up
0 recs
The conditions...
...were actually very pitcher friendly. Trust me, it’s no fun trying to hit when it is in the 40’s and the wind is howling in. I would not get overly excited about any pitchers outing in those conditions, because mistakes can be hidden easily.
I like the kid a lot, but let’s see how he does in more hitter friendly conditions.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
May 28, 2008 3:05 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Short memories
Last year, Hill was very good, and now he is trash not worth anyone trading for? Really? And now Gallagher is a potential #2 after a handful of starts, and an ERA and K rate that is worse than Rich Hill’s numbers THIS YEAR? Let’s not go overboard. Two months from now Rich Hill could very well be back in the bigs kicking butt and Gallagher could be back in the minors after flaming out. Or Gallagher could have developed into a decent arm, and Hill could still be getting his head straight in the minors. But I would not value one so far over the other at this point.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."
by californiachicagoan on
May 28, 2008 1:16 PM CDT
up
1 recs
I'd love to see
Hill and Gallagher both in the rotation.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 28, 2008 1:18 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Actually, I agree with you
But if the Cubs insist on acquiring another LH hitter, I think Johnson is a good option. The new guy would have to hit somewhere, and there are no outfield candidates.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on
May 27, 2008 10:20 PM CDT
up
0 recs
interesting idea....
i dont like it though because i dont want to regulate DeRosa to pinch hitting duty..
I like something new..
I wonder what it would take to get Milton Bradley…..
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on May 27, 2008 10:19 PM CDT 0 recs
I dunno... maybe a lobotomy?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
May 27, 2008 10:23 PM CDT
up
0 recs
now thats a good idea
Rangers always need pitching. Maybe they take Rich Hill plus another young pitcher? I don’t know where else they need help and is Bradley going to be available?
by plenz on
May 27, 2008 10:23 PM CDT
up
0 recs
My guess
Ronny Cedeno and Sean Marshall. The Rangers could move Young to 3B, because Blalock is apparently going to play first when he returns from injury.
I wouldn’t do it, myself.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on
May 27, 2008 10:24 PM CDT
up
0 recs
does he promise to not
rupture a tendon having a slap-fest with the ump?
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 27, 2008 10:25 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I think Hill is more valuable than Kelly Johnson,
and I think Lou is looking for more power. I like going after Johnson and putting him back at SS, but I don’t think that’s the direction the Cubs are going now.
Here’s a list of players I think might be available if we offered enough, although some of them probably are not available. You never know who for sure. Of course, if you put Rich Hill on the table, there’s a lot that could become available. Here are some of my criteria:
– they can’t be limited in position to 1B, 3B, or C;
– they really need to be closer to veterans than to rookies;
– you have either to expect a SLG over .450 or have seen one in a recent season.
Chad Tracy (AZ)
Milton Bradley (TEX)
Ken Griffey Jr. (CIN)
Adam Dunn (CIN)
Brad Hawpe (COL) inj
Hideki Matsui (NYY)
Luke Scott (BAL)
Andre Ethier (LAD)
Raul Ibanez (SEA)
Mark Teahen (KC)
Wilson Betemit (NYY)
Then, there’s the dream list of players who almost certainly are not available, but if they were would fit very nicely:
Carlos Beltran (NYM)
Jeremy Hermida (FL)
by DGU on May 27, 2008 10:23 PM CDT 0 recs
as far as your list goes.
yes to the following
Bradley
Tracy (might not take much)
Dunn
Hawpe
Ethier
Matsui
Hermida
No to
the rest
but good job researching!!!
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on
May 27, 2008 10:29 PM CDT
up
0 recs
As for as how I look at that list
I don’t get very excited about any of the names beyond Hermida. Bradley and Dunn are both interesting. Tracy has some upside but worries me that he’d become disappointing away from AZ and/or that he’d get injured. Honestly, given the cost of the players here and their relative downsides, most of the options are not that pleasant.
by DGU on
May 27, 2008 10:39 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Nice list
Do you see the Yankees being more apt to deal Matsui than Abreu this season?
Looking at stats, Teahen has really fallen off the last couple of year, hasn’t he?
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on
May 27, 2008 10:30 PM CDT
up
0 recs
The rumors from the Yankees are that they have been willing to trade Matsui or Damon.
The rumors could be totally wrong and Abreu could be available or none of them could be available.
Teahen has only had one good half-season and I really don’t think he’s the kind of guy the Cubs would go for at this point. On the other hand, he was rumored preseason to be a backup plan in case Fukudome did not come through, and one trade rumor had the price being as low as Murton and change. I wouldn’t role the dice on Teahen unless my scouts and coaches were looking at him and certain they could get his power back.
by DGU on
May 27, 2008 10:35 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Can we afford them?
...probably not.
I’m sure we’re probably looking to sign Brady Anderson or Kenny Lofton.
Help me Obi-ONEDEC. You're our only hope.
by IowaCubs- on
May 28, 2008 1:31 PM CDT
up
0 recs
yeah, I went through all the RF and CFers the other day, trying to see who was out there
my criteria included if it was RF, had to be someone in last year of contract. I feel pretty confident Dome would move to center for the rest of this season if Lou asked him, but I wouldn’t want it to be a permanent move, though I would love to see Hawpe here.
I think Ethier can play center, so I’d at least see what the Dodgers wanted. Although unless Hendry is willing to give up the good stuff, he’s only get “Ethier? I thought you said Pierre” response out of Coletti. For that matter, I’d love Kemp too, even if he is right-handed.
I think Matsui (or Abreu) would be very easy to take – Cashman might not make a panic deal on his own, but with Hank Jr. looming large, it probably wouldn’t take much. Maybe a live bullpen arm or two once Joba goes into rotation. I would hope though that Hendry has our scouts do some serious serious fact checking on either of these guys first though.
And if Lou can convince Hendry that “defense be damned – I want my LH slugger” is the way to go, Dunn fits the bill exactly. Biggest obstacle there obviously would be Cincy dealing within division.
Don’t know much about Tracy so can’t judge that one. Everyone else – I don’t want and I don’t think it’s gonna happen. We’d only offer up our marginal or failed prospects; other teams would want more, and Hendry would [wisely] say no dice.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
May 27, 2008 10:42 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I think you're right about Ethier's nonavailability.
No way even Ned Coletti trades him away right now.
Other than that – I just pray every single night that Ken Griffey Jr. is not a Cub when I wake up the next morning.
by cwyers on
May 27, 2008 10:52 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Not with Jones out for the next month or two, but...
when Jones comes back, might Mark DeRosa be more valuable to Ned than Ethier?
by DGU on
May 27, 2008 10:57 PM CDT
up
0 recs
The Dodgers have DeWitt and LaRoche at third, so they're stacked there currently.
And I don’t see them trying to upgrade from Jeff Kent just yet. Meanwhile Ethier isn’t even a Super 2 yet, and there’s no way they trade a stud like him for a year and a half of a guy like DeRosa.
by cwyers on
May 27, 2008 11:03 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I've always thought Ethier was a little overrated -
- a better defensively, left-handed Matt Murton, which is not nothing, but not a “stud” either. I guess he is still just 26, but anyway, the point is to see things as Ned seems to see things, and he doesn’t act like he “has LaRoche” anywhere other than his trade chip pile. And you figure DeWitt is going to be exposed at this level this year, not that he doesn’t have a future ahead of him eventually. Meanwhile, Kent’s finally looking his age, and Pierre should at least be platooned – so DeRosa would give the Dodgers a lot of options – at 2B, 3B, and LF.
If I ran the Dodgers, there’d be no call for DeRosa – LaRoche would be at 3B and both Ethier and Kemp would play ahead of Pierre. But Ned runs the Dodgers (or at least some of the time he does) and he signed Juan and Juan’s learned to walk a little and he’s not giving LaRoche a shot, sooooo… I still wonder.
by DGU on
May 27, 2008 11:17 PM CDT
up
0 recs
LaRoche is on the DL currently.
He played when he was healthy, and they’re going to have to find room for him somewhere when he comes back; if DeWitt is still raking, maybe you commit to the most expensive bench in the majors and see if one of them can handle left field.
by cwyers on
May 27, 2008 11:21 PM CDT
up
0 recs
He's back on the DL again?
LaRoche played Monday night. Oh well. I still think Ned’s going to stick with Juan now that Juan’s got his OBP up. It’s easier to sink the cost of dollars than of pride.
by DGU on
May 27, 2008 11:29 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Laroche hasn't been on the DL for a while
hitting .268/.481 (!!)/.451 for the Vegas 51s. could be called up pretty soon
by PrincetonCubs on
May 27, 2008 11:33 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Yeah, I checked tonight's box score
He was playing 1B and was a significant part of a 23 Run blitz against poor Tucson.
by DGU on
May 27, 2008 11:36 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Oh, I'm sure Jocketty would send us Dunn if we paid the price
It’s more likely that Hendry won’t want Gallagher/Hill/Marshall pitching in Cinci for the next few years.
As for Tracy, until the Byrnes injury, I thought he was the most likely to become our new RF. He’s shown doubles power, but also a fairly sizable home/away split. He’s more of a 1B/3B, but played a decent RF in the past. There’s definite risk with him.
by DGU on
May 27, 2008 10:55 PM CDT
up
0 recs
If you want a defense be damned scenario
then I’d sign Bonds and move Soriano to 2nd base.
by cubswin on
May 28, 2008 8:19 AM CDT
up
0 recs
My trade proposal
Release: Edmonds, Jim
Recall: Pie, Felix.
by DrunkenSuperman on May 27, 2008 10:41 PM CDT 0 recs
+1
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
May 27, 2008 10:48 PM CDT
up
0 recs
+2
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 28, 2008 4:34 AM CDT
up
0 recs
+3
I’m understanding the current situation less and less with every weak outfield fly ball from Edmonds. – TL
by timlacy on
May 28, 2008 6:02 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Ah, that would be a great trade...
I think Edmonds needs more AAA time to work on his swing. Pie’s Cub statistics at the plate are better than Edmonds’ anyway….
by crazymountain on
May 28, 2008 8:04 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Exactly
I bumped on the fence behind Al last night to tell him to put a star in his scorebook when Edmonds was up in the 6th I believe. I told him I would put anyone up there to hit besides Edmonds. Dont we all know its painfully obivous WHEN, the Cubs break out with a great inning in the 7th with two 2 outs hits and take the lead—-Edmonds makes the last out and instead of a big roar from the crowd for the great inning there were boos. Edmonds < Pie.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on
May 28, 2008 8:34 AM CDT
up
0 recs
=6
I haz show: http://hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on
May 28, 2008 8:54 AM CDT
up
0 recs
C'mon, be serious...
...you’d have to give up the Cubs farm system to get a guy like that from the Cubs farm system.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on
May 28, 2008 9:13 AM CDT
up
1 recs
Any trade opportunities...
...really won’t present themselves until July. Until then, it will be a combination of Reed Johnson, Edmonds and maybe Pie in CF.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 27, 2008 10:41 PM CDT 0 recs
Not necessarily
The D’backs were looking to move Tracy sooner rather than later; that may have changed, now, with Byrnes out, maybe not. The Indians are publicly trying to get the trade market going. They don’t have anything we want, but if they and other teams are trying to start the market up, I think Lou is also impatient to get his lefty bat, and something could happen. Probably, you are right, but not necessarily.
by DGU on
May 27, 2008 10:51 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I like Bradley or DUnn the most
me personally
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
by fischisgod on May 28, 2008 12:14 AM CDT 0 recs
Tejas will NOT get rid of Bradley...
Dunn is a left fielder…..we are fine save for Marquis, lots of talent, but a headcase….
by crazymountain on
May 28, 2008 8:02 AM CDT
up
0 recs
guys the solution is obvious...
make derrek lee bat left handed!! duh! haha jk.
We have scored the most runs in the league. We don’t need a left handed bat.
by WUSTLCubsFan on May 28, 2008 1:15 AM CDT 0 recs
Fukudome
once it heats up he will hit 15 homers I’m convinced when its all said and done… power includes his ability to hit doubles which he does fine
by Steves Stoners on May 28, 2008 1:27 AM CDT 0 recs
LSA
Lou seems to have an obsession with a HR hitter being a lefthander, not recognizing that Fukudome could hit 40+ doubles this year.
Edmonds couldn’t hit 40 doubles if you gave him 40 more years. He is D-O-N-E.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 28, 2008 4:35 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Ditto.
Even if he hit a gapper, his legs will only take him to first. – TL
by timlacy on
May 28, 2008 6:02 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Why does everyone what to mess it hte team
the Cubs are going fine why go and fix something that is not broken
by brownbuddha on May 28, 2008 5:27 AM CDT 0 recs
For my part, I do not want to mess with the team.
I think the options we have on the 40-man roster are better than we will find by trade. Jim Hendry has done his job very well. It’s a shame Lou does not agree.
by DGU on
May 28, 2008 8:22 AM CDT
up
0 recs
I think most of the saner, calmer minds on BCB do not want to mess with the team, at least not the offense.
But it’s pretty clear that Lou wants a LH power bat, so I think we’re all just putting on our own little Lou/Jim hats and opining about what we would do in their shoes.
Sooner or later, Lou/Jim will do something. In the meantime, if a thousand BCB users keep pounding on their keyboards and submitting posts, it stands to reason that one of them will end up resembling what actually happens, thus giving that lucky BCB user bragging rights for the rest of the season.
Pray that it’s not Blue MIke….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
May 28, 2008 10:14 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Mark DeRosa is our 2nd baseman
Happens also to be the most underrated member of the roster. It’s getting tiring to read constant replacement strategies for a guy who will hit near .300, chip in with one of the best on-base %’s on the team and provide good defense. And unselfish versatility.
This trade proposal has no legs. No way the cost conscious and semi-rebuilding Atlanta Braves trade away Kelly Johnson.
"It is never too early to start beefing up your obituary."
by MDBNIU on May 28, 2008 6:50 AM CDT 0 recs
It's not that we don't value DeRosa -
rather, it’s clear that Lou, a WS-ring-wearing-genuis-ML-manager-whose-authority-and-judgment-are-not-to-be-questioned doesn’t value DeRosa all that much and wants to jimmy a LH power bat into the lineup either in the OF or at 2B. Why DeRosa is behind Theriot on Lou’s depth chart no one knows, but his judgment is… well, his judgment. You’ve trusted it before, why not now?
Here’s my trade proposal – Lou and Theriot to the Mets for Jose Reyes. They get their sparkplug and a manager. We get a real SS and a CF.
by DGU on
May 28, 2008 8:14 AM CDT
up
0 recs
where do you see
DeRosa behind Theriot on the depth chart? Because he pinched Riot instead of Mark last night?
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 28, 2008 10:05 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Player usage
Theriot plays nearly every day and when he comes into the game, he always takes over SS. DeRosa is not treated the same way, as if he IS the team’s 2B and anyone playing there is just keeping the position warm. DeRosa is often double-switched out even though doing so limits Lou’s later tactical options. DeRosa bats 8th despite outhitting Theriot in every category.
by DGU on
May 28, 2008 10:32 AM CDT
up
0 recs
hm.
Well, ok. I’m not sure I read it the same.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 28, 2008 11:37 AM CDT
up
0 recs
No to Milton Bradley
Just recall Pie, the guy has been devasted being sent down, at least according to the article in the Chicago papers. they are jacking with his swing, stance and probably what socks to wear.
Bring Pie up, play him agaisnt every righthander, and go from there.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 28, 2008 7:18 AM CDT 0 recs
Here's hoping that Felix
has the confidence to know he can still get out of bed correctly…...
by crazymountain on
May 28, 2008 7:33 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Good grief
They are (ahem) “jacking” with his swing because it is there professional assessment that his swing does not work at this level. They are “jacking” with his swing in hopes of reclaiming a major league future for Felix Pie. He should be very thankful the extreme patience and intensive investment this organization continues to make in him.
"It is never too early to start beefing up your obituary."
by MDBNIU on
May 28, 2008 7:35 AM CDT
up
0 recs
So your solution is Edmonds?
Do you know ANYTHING about baseball, MDBNIU? From what I can tell, you would DFA Soriano, keep Edmonds and trade ANYONE who doesn’t produce every day…..The rest of my comments are (self) censored…..
by crazymountain on
May 28, 2008 7:54 AM CDT
up
0 recs


