Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: The USA TODAY/Bloody Elbow Top 50 MMA Fights Ever, I


From Wuertz To Chad

Drifting in and out of sleep last night (since I have to get up at 3:30 am for work on Saturdays, and thank you to BCB reader northsider for posting the extra inning comment thread), I woke up just in time to see Skip Schumaker's walkoff HR fly over the RF wall in St. Louis, finishing the Cubs' 5-3 loss to the Cardinals in 11 innings.

It's got Lou Piniella so exasperated that he doesn't know what to say. In this Bruce Miles article in the Daily Herald, Lou elaborates on his "You think I'm stupid?" remark at Thursday's postgame press conference:

After the game, Piniella took exception to a question from a radio reporter who asked if Piniella had thought about moving Reed Johnson from center to left and replacing Soriano, who had come off the disabled list Thursday after suffering a right-calf strain.

"The question that was asked yesterday, the guy who asked it knew the answer before I had to answer it," Piniella said. "Why ask it? Why can't he report the news instead of trying to create news?

"I'm not going to take Soriano out for defense. He knows it, you know it, and unless there's a double switch, that's the only way he's coming out of the ballgame. Everybody knows that. You don't take superstar players out of the lineup. You don't do it."

But then, in Bruce's game recap from last night, Piniella shows his frustration, which matches all of ours:

"I've got no explanation for the left-field play," Piniella said. "I really don't."

Soriano dropped a playable fly ball in the 7th inning -- well, "dropped" isn't the right word, because he appeared to never touch it -- that helped the Cardinals eventually extend their lead to 3-1 after Yadier Molina hit a ground-rule double. The Cubs actually caught a break on that play, because the ball bouncing into the seats held a runner at third. Otherwise it'd have been 4-1. At the same time, if Soriano makes that play (or if Derrek Lee hadn't made an error on Rick Ankiel's grounder on the previous play), the Cardinals score NO runs in that inning and then Soriano's two-run HR in the 9th inning would have been a game-winner.

Such is what happens when you're in a bad stretch, and the Cubs are in a really bad stretch (now six losses in the last eight games). I was actually encouraged by that inning, because Bob Howry did his job -- got Ankiel to hit a ground ball and Albert Pujols to hit the popup that Soriano couldn't field. When Troy Glaus struck out, that should have been a 1-2-3 inning. Kerry Wood also threw a 1-2-3 ninth inning, good news after his Thursday meltdown.

All of this wouldn't have been necessary if Rich Hill had just done his job. He walked four batters in the first inning, forcing in a run, at which time Lou had had enough and yanked him, and that may be it for Hill in the rotation for a while:

"Hill can't start like this in the big leagues," Piniella said. "Come on. Every time he pitches, it's an adventure. He's doing his best. I have no bullpen. I don't know what the solution is. I can't start him anymore until this thing gets taken care of. I would think that if we did something, we'd put (Sean) Marshall in the rotation, for now."

Give credit, at least, to Michael Wuertz and Jon Lieber, who together threw five innings and allowed only one run, keeping the game close. But Lou is right. I can't figure out what's wrong with Hill, who appears to have seriously regressed from his fine season last year. He's walked 18 in 19.2 innings and doesn't seem to have a clue out there. I don't think he's hurt, because his velocity seems OK; is it a mechanical problem? Larry Rothschild has already worked with him on that once this year, and that resulted in Hill's only win of the season. Hill has now thrown 353 pitches in five starts -- not getting past the sixth inning in any of them -- and only 55% of them have been strikes (194). Contrast that with Carlos Zambrano's excellent start this year (after a couple of years' worth of Z walking way too many) -- Z has thrown 723 pitches, 458 for strikes (63%).

Would an all-expenses-paid trip to Des Moines for Rich be useful? I say it would; what's the point of putting Hill in the bullpen? If he's a long reliever, he's likely to come into situations where the team is behind, maybe with runners on base, and if he can't throw strikes -- that's potential disaster.

The Cubs did have their opportunities last night, having nine hits and five walks... but leaving thirteen men on base in 11 innings isn't going to cut it. The Cubs left RISP in the 7th, 8th, 9th and 11th.

And Chad Fox... well, he threw strikes (14 in 23 pitches), but everyone he faced hit the ball hard (save Brendan Ryan, who bunted). I'm not so sure he's the answer to the Cubs' current bullpen woes, either. Just remember this: Lou won't stand pat if something isn't working, and even with the swap-out of Kevin Hart for Fox, there are still problems with both the rotation and the bullpen.

Perspective: after 29 games a year ago, the Cubs were 15-14, but already five games out of first place. This morning they trail by 1.5 games and are two games better off than the 2007 edition.

0 recs | Comment 117 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Wood...

...got lucky. He came within about 4 feet of the game being over on the ball Ankiel crushed.

by jolietconvict on May 3, 2008 8:31 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

RISP

Those RISP stats are hard to swallow. That’s killing us. It seemed like Fontenot was at bat every time they were threatening and he made an out. Why is that guy still on the team? Soriano is a butcher in left. I was pissed when he hit that homerun because it should have been a game winner if he hadn’t played like garbage in the field.

Hill has to go. Get him out of the rotation. There, i’m done. I feel better.

So nobody has to see the scroll bar on my posts!!!!

by McRipper on May 3, 2008 8:33 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seemed like

The 30 million dollar man was at bat all the time w/ RISP

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on May 3, 2008 10:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe it's just me

but it seems like Hill has mental problems too. He strikes out the first batter on three pitches (three good pitches mind you) and then once he starts losing the strike zone, it all goes to hell. It just doesn’t seem like he is able or capable of bearing down and focusing on the task at hand.

I am with you Al, it doesn;t make any sense to keep Hill up here in a bullpen that is already having problems and has already thrown too many innings as it is. Hill needs to be sent down to Iowa to figure out whatever he needs to figure out. He better figure it out quickly too b/c at his age (he’s 28 or 29, right?) he isn’t going to get too many more chances.

Soriono, what else can be said that hasn’t already been said. It doesn’t look like he cares at times. I know it is important to go out there and have fun when they are playing this game, but at times that all it seems like Soriano is doing. He looks lost at the plate (the homerun aside). Why throw him a fastball, you don’t have to, he will swing at the curveballs that land in front of the plate for you. Soriano looks lost in left field. At time it just doesn’t look like he feels like playing the game right, he just feels like playing the game. That kind of attitude is not going to win him many fans in a city where we appreciate players like Dome and Johnson and Lee who play the game right, fundamentals and all.

All right, I am done too . . . for now. Thanks for listening :).

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 3, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

On a positive note

it was good to see Wuertz, Howry, and Wood throw better and have successful outings.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 3, 2008 8:38 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

About Wood...

I would’ve liked to see him go out for another inning. He only threw about 9 pitches? I think that makes more sense than sending out Fox for another inning in his first appearance in 3 years.

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 3, 2008 8:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

YES!!!

Soriano should hit 5th. Period.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on May 3, 2008 9:13 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Although

Wood had throw quite a few pitches the day before against Milwaukee

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 3, 2008 9:17 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that was the bright side of a really ugly night.

..I thought Howry looked like his own self. He technically got 5 outs in the 7th.(errors on Lee and Soriano in my book)

An absoultue joke the Molina was credited with a double. I know that’s how it works with the offical scorers with balls hit to the outfield but come on.

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on May 3, 2008 9:33 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hill...

Dempster is probably the biggest surprise of the rotation this year, but Hill has to be the biggest disappointment. I know Lilly has been struggling a bit as well, but I truly expected Hill to take that “next step” and become a dominant pitcher.

Although I would love to have Lieber starting, he is just too valuable in that long-relief role. Slotting Marshall into Hill’s spot for a while makes sense.

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 3, 2008 8:38 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Today's game...

...will be televised live here in Japan on SkyPerfecTV… but the program will be started at 4:40AM….
Hopely I can wake up by then and join the thread, but I don’t know I can get over Sunday morning laziness….

Good night…

I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.

by dragonsfanatic on May 3, 2008 8:52 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hope Dome has a better game than he had Friday night.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 3, 2008 11:46 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Pen and others

With Hill being yanked after 0.2 innings, the pen had to come up huge and it did. All you can ask for is a chance and the Cubs had chances all night. How can a big league ballplayer misplay the ball that bad? Len and Bob was asking why wasn’t he sent down to Iowa for a couple of games to get the timing back along with game experience. I agree with them. Soriano looked lost.

A Cub fan in Cardinal territory.

by FSArkCubsFan on May 3, 2008 8:54 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I ws really ticked off last night....

...much calmer now…The problem with Lou’s comments is that they put the star before the team. Moreover, you could easily explain removing him for defense as protecting his leg. The manager has to manage egos and that’s a very tough job, but as a fan of a team so rich in losing, the feelings of a guy making $18 million per year mean nothing. Seriously, they don’t mean anything.

I can also say that fans would totally respect Soriano as a TEAM player and they’d allow for his injury if he were taken out for defense and batted down. By the way, batting him down where belongs removes Lou’s lame excuse about not double switching for him because of the pitcher.

As I watch Lou manage more like Dusty it’s very frustrating. The Cubs have a good team, we’ve had 2 very tough losses with total melt downs from Wood, Hill, and Soriano on D, but it’s a long season, too. But I don’t care about the egos of alleged “stars”. If you are a gimp on D then you better bring like a star much more often at the plate and don’t look to me for sympathy….Seriously, who in the world is Lou trying to appease with his comment about not switching out a “superstar”? No one but Soriano.

by DudeVf11 on May 3, 2008 9:08 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lou's comments are very disappointing

I thought he cared more about wins and loses than stroking a guys ego. I guess not. Like you said, it is Dusty-like.

by Ilan on May 3, 2008 9:11 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Disappointing, yes

Neither Lou nor Soriano have said the right things about this whole thing. I one thing though, despite whatever Lou says his desire to win is so great that in the end he will make the changes necesary. I don’t see Soriano remaining in the leadoff spot for too long unless he suddenly gets hot. And if he keeps playing like that in the field he will be substituded for as well. Still, the comments and actions from Lou concerning Soriano are certainly disappointing. And Soriano’s total lack of accountability even more so.

by Luis on May 3, 2008 9:21 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lou's comments EXTREMELY disappointing

I love Lou, but his actions and words scream a different set of standards (and rules) for Alfonso Soriano. I absolutely hate that. Very, very disappointed in Lou’s handling of the Soriano affair.

by MDBNIU on May 3, 2008 9:20 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Love...

You have love in your heart? Didn’t think it was possible.

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 3, 2008 10:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Find me one superstar in ANY sport

who isn’t coddled?

Hell, look at the way in which Michael Jordan was coddled not just by the team, but by the league.

It’s just the way it works. If Lou was doing otherwise, no doubt there would be people around here saying Lou doesn’t care about his players. He’s got to massage the egos and play the part because that’s part of what a manager does. Gotta keep the clubhouse running smoothly. It’s the way it works.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 10:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As much as it pains me, I have to agree...

I’d been shocked that Soriano was even in the lineup the last few days. He looked awful before the DL trip, had been on it for a few weeks, and was then just thrown back into the lineup. There were all the reasons in the world to send him out on a rehab stint for a few days to avoid exactly these problems (Peoria maybe?). So, as much as I respect Lou, I think he’s dead wrong on this, and probably is costing the team some games.

And Rich Hill? I don’t know what more there is to add, other than his trip to the minors would be about five weeks overdue. His fastball is consistently high, and he looks like he’s lost the release point on the curveball as well. Until he can fix at least one of those things, he’s of no use to the Cubs on the ML roster.

by Damen Jackson on May 3, 2008 11:21 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wonder if Lou

wouldn’t have preferred Sori go on a rehab stint…who knows, though.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 11:27 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know either...

but three games in Peoria before coming back with the club, and we aren’t have these conversation; and the Cubs aren’t having these headaches.

Hell, Alfonso could have even gone out there, and returned back to his place in Chicago each night. Makes no sense.

by Damen Jackson on May 3, 2008 11:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree.

Some rehab time would have been best for all concerned.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 11:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've said it here before, the reason Lou is coddling Soriano publicly and most likely

..privately is he knows his ego is as fragile as an 8 year olds. (ask Frank Robinson) He doesn’t want to lose him.

Lou ripping Soriano publicly would only make us feel good, it wouldn’t accomplish anything.

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on May 3, 2008 9:38 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly.

Lou’s doing what he needs to do to keep things running smoothly in the clubhouse. Personally, I think he’s doing a good job of handling a situation he obviously doesn’t want to be in.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 11:01 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now that I am settled down...

...I am more inclined to agree with you…

The Cubs’ start has been great to watch, at the same time I have not been impressed with Lou’s managing, but since you can’t tell an $18 million brat that he’s a jackass, it’s probably best for the long haul that Lou handles it this way. I do think you can tell Soriano he’s hitting 5th, just build up the role for him in a positive way, e.g., more RBIs, using his power, protecting him from injury,extremely positive fan response, you can be as reckless and indulgent in your pitch selection as you like at 5th.

How many more years do we have to endure this B.S. under his contract, 6-7?

At 34 when his power is down, has little speed, and is a (-) in the field, it’s going to be pretty ugly. But Hendry might not be here then to have to unload that deal so it’s no biggie.

by DudeVf11 on May 4, 2008 9:24 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Alfie.....

Hass to do better than 1-5….2-5 and no extras…...

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on May 3, 2008 9:08 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lou looking like Rusty

Why didn’t Lou put in a runner for Zambrano ? That for sure cost a run and why take a chance of injury with your best pitcher ?
I haven;t been a big fan of Hill for a long time …. don;t like his High School Curve, it might work if he had a dominate fastball that he could locate like Wood ten years ago.
Fonse should be batting 9th till he gets it togeter….. and get the project “Korey Pie outta there he needs to be traded while there is some value….. I don’t think he will ever be a major leauge hitter…........... Put Johnson in CF leading off and stay with it

by nimblenikelfoos on May 3, 2008 9:29 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Im not sure there was much thought behind this post

You can’t pitch hit for Zambrano in the 3rd, its too early to use a position player that you might need later in the game. That’s the reason that Lou pulled Ward back and used Zambrano, so he could use Ward or a pinch runner in a more meaningful situation or if someone had gotten hurt (Ramirez did last night).

Can’t argue with Hill, but Soriano I hope him hitting 9th was a joke. Perhaps we have Tony on our message board. I agree he needs to move down (5-6 hole) but 9? Lets be real here.

And perhaps the biggest problem with your post is the Korey Pie comment. As I’ve said a million times, that is not a fair comparison in any way. Pie has had success at every minor league lever, Patterson did not. Pie was managed correctly and given time to move up the ladder, Patterson was pushed through the organization too quickly. Patterson had an injury which set his career back several years (or completely ruined it), Pies been healthy, sans a twisted ball. The only comparisons that can be made are that the are both CF, Left handed, and highly touted. But that is where the comparisons stop.

Aramis Ramirez- NL MVP
Kosuke Fukudome- NL ROY
Carlos Marmol- Rolaids Relief Man

by sheamcmurray on May 3, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lou see's more that we are not seeing

Cubs got off to a fast start for a number of reasons; team-wise runs scored, DLee, Fukudome, DeRosa, Theriot, Johnson, Soto, Cedeno hitting alot. Blanco has returned healthy, Fontenot is actually hitting the consistently, Marmol has been almost unhittable, Woody has not been consistent, sometimes dominant but not K dominant, the bats are finding his ball. Z has started well as has Dempster, Marquis is Marquis, but Lilly & Hill are not right. Pie is struggling to hang on.

The worst has been Soriano, he did get a redemption HR last night, a real team redemption for the moment but I think Lou and those fundamental players on the team might be coming to the end of this selfish act.

Fukudome and DLee are the soul of the team, Wood is somewhat the locker room leader where he possesses that personality that when he fails he admits it, but the approach by Lee and Fukudome have rubbed off. It must be how Dome approaches each day in a highly disciplined and focused manner, very professional. Soriano on the other hand might be sloppy, dependent on his extraordinary talent and what that talent will reap for him, thus the inability or unwillingness to hit other than leadoff. I am projecting here but hitting lead off and hitting that first inning HR is a big stage identity thing. (see below, he doesn’t think about situational hitting, merely hacking…). what is worse is his failings in making those catches near the wall, he has ‘alligator arms’, something is missing.

I am going to say this, I don’t think the Cubs and Soriano are going to last, possibly much sooner than later meaning this year. Here is a thought; the Mariners have started out very bad where even Ichiro with his $17M contract through 2012 is not hitting. They traded away the OF future of the franchise to Baltimore for Bedard and they got nothing but a 34 year old who is not hitting. Here is a thought; trade Soriano’s $17M for Ichiro’s $17M and possibly an exchange of prospects like Pie for Truinfel. (Mariners have a young SS and Cubs have the OF now covered with Colvin coming up to possibly play LF), heck it could be Soriano and Hill also!

Ichiro and Dome could team up as the Japan Connection in the OF, and Cubs could play Johnson in LF. Soriano could play RF in Seattle’s dome which would be a more natural position. Either way Piniella is not happy and that is plain to see.

Soriano just doesn’t fit, I didn’t think it would take less than a year but that is the effect of Dome. Other thoughts are how impatient Piniella is getting with Hill, I see him going too. Lou’s contention is that he is now a 3rd year pro who has the tools and should be able to throw the ball for strikes. Sending Hart down to start is a sign the Cubs are looking to make changes.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on May 3, 2008 9:30 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soriano is classic 2nd division "star" ballplayer

He puts up wondrous personal statistics on dog teams with little expectation for team wins. Look at 2004 and 2005 in Texas and 2006 in Washington. There was little accountability for team wins on the shoulders of Soriano. He could got up to the plate and just hack his way to sexy personal statistics. Didn’t matter if he struck out a lot or failed to do the little things like advance the runner, lay down the sac bunt, hit behind the runner, etc. Nope. He could concentrate on hitting a ton of meaningless home runs and stealing a bunch of meaningless bases.

But put him in a situation where the expectations are high for winning? All of a sudden his flaws are magnified. All of a sudden he can’t concentrate on padding the numbers on the back of his bubble gum card. All of a sudden his warts and flaws become greatly magnified.

by MDBNIU on May 3, 2008 9:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Some might not want to hear that but

That sounds just about right. I think that once his play slips just even a little bit the fans in Wrigley will make it very tough for him. After seeing guys like Fukudome and a better approach from the majority of the lineup I don’t think they will simply stand for a guy who hacks away the same way everytime irrespective of the game situation.

by Luis on May 3, 2008 9:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree 100%

But I also think as he has aged, he has also gotten worse. His bat seems a teeny bit slower (although it is fast by anyone else’s standards), and his legs are much worse. Oh well…

by zevkalman on May 3, 2008 10:09 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Soriano was a team player

He would already be using a lighter bat, for starters.

by Luis on May 3, 2008 10:11 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NOT TRUE FACTUALLY!

Soriano’s seasons in Texas were his WORST statistically and you neglect to mention his years as a Yankee where he made a name for himself to begin with. Are you seriously going to say that NY’s fans and press, not to mention, management have low expectations? There are legitimate gripes about Soriano- why b.s.? The rest of what you said is the usual stuff you ALWAYS say and is just…..I have no words for that. Maybe if you stick to reality in the anti-Soriano campaign you’re leading, you might do better convincing people.

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on May 3, 2008 2:44 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do agree with Ivy

If you were playing that childhood game of one of these things is not like the other, Soriano would be that one thing. He just doesn’t approach the game the way the rest of the team does and that is more magnified this year vs. last year.

Hopefully Sori will get on a tear soon and prove us all wrong

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 3, 2008 9:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When I played up to high school a player like Soriano

Who is displaying this kind of misspelling of TEAM and spelling it I-TEAM….meaning I am before the team, would be slowly shunned by the team. Watch to see how the Dominicans react to him. Last night Rami came out of the locker room and sat next to Soriano, where Lou walked up to Rami and asked how his wrist was, where Rami nodded as to say it will be okay, although I doubt that Rami plays today. Look for DeRosa at 3B. The watch if DeRosa plays LF tomorrow night on national TV.

Lou might call it the new DeRosa rotation but the signal will be unmistakable to the the team that National TV audience might not see Soriano.

Back in the day we had two players who were stars, the catcher who was my neighbor and a personality like Wood. Ken was also on my Little League, Pony League and Colt League teams, he was our school’s fullback in ‘73 & ‘74 and leading rusher in the old Eastern Suburban Catholic Conference. In ‘73 we also had Bobby who went to Advanced A ball with the Twins, he was also a leader. We had another player who carried himself as a star baby and he was shunned.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on May 3, 2008 10:21 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cubs

hill is gone for sure.he,ll be relegated to murton-land.we saw what happend to matt when he got on lou,s bad side due to poor play. lou has no patience left for hill. i say aaa looms.and losing all these 0ne run games or late inning games does not bode well for oct.could the cards be gearing up for a runaway?????

by NOMAR on May 3, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Get Marshall Extended

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 3, 2008 9:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He has been terrific...and gone about his bullpen

...role very professionally.

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on May 3, 2008 9:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right, but...

... I wouldn’t want to see him try to six or seven innings right now—he hasn’t been stretched out.

Idea: Send Marshall AND Hill to Iowa. Bring up Ascanio and Cotts. Put Lieber in the rotation. There! Problem solved.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 3, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sori

My DVR skipped somehow and it came back right after the Sorianos homer. I was very excited because I saw the score line first. THEN, they showed the replay and I went from happy to pissed. Soriano, after an absolutely terrible game has the nerve to admire that homerun and smack his helmet like a punk.

Run the goddarn bases….who the hell do you think you are? Selfish. Just the reason why all the security gaurds otuside of wrigley told me that Sori was “the biggest prick” unless the cameras are on.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 3, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NOMAR or is it NoMORE and Hammer

Hill is a value other teams will take, where a lefty is someone who has 9 lives in MLB, look at Villone. So if Hill goes down he will be traded, possibly in a deal brewing. Reds also want to revamp and the GM there likes taking chances on talent, maybe the Cubs make a deal for Griffey…who knows, but Lou is only impatient when teams don’t win and players don’t perform.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on May 3, 2008 9:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can't see Hill being traded anytime soon.

He will certainly get his chances to get himself straightened out. You just don’t trade starting pitcher with high ceiling for rental player.

by Luis on May 3, 2008 9:49 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cardinals are a LOT stronger than I thought

Rick Ankiel can rake. Obviously he can no longer be juiced, so it must be talent that is getting the job done. Two worries about that team….Troy Glaus rounding into shape and the return of Mark Mulder to what already is a remarkably good starting rotation.

by MDBNIU on May 3, 2008 9:49 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I cant wait for Mulder to come back

he is not good. There….......cant wait to light him up

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 3, 2008 9:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Steroids.

My 08 Cubs record 4-0
My 08 W.Sox record 0-2 (I havent seen a sox win in 3 years)
Updated April 26th

by Rudey on May 3, 2008 9:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, if they continue to get the performances they're getting

out of Wellemeyer, and Thompson, and Lohse, and Pinero, then they’ll be tough. They’ve got a bunch of 4th and 5th starters working perfectly. Gotta give the credit to Larussa and Duncan-Those guys are the best in the league. But, I discovered something last night. I used to be scared of the Cardinals because I knew they were better than the Cubs. Not anymore. Those guys are, to use an old golf phrase, ham-and-egging it. They’re competitive, but we’ve got a better club. Hell, we almost beat them last night-we had them worried in any case—and we played the worst game I’ve seen us play all year (by far) and they had Wainwright going.

Lou has got to take control of this thing. Soriano is a major problem. The homerun was funny—and exciting. But, that guy needs boot camp or something. He’s a mess. At this point, I’d be happy to see the Cubs eat about 60 mil and try to make a trade. What I wouldn’t give to swap him for Ichiro.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on May 3, 2008 11:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A contrarian approach

Before i get into this let me first say I don’t absolve Rich Hill for his control problems and for his fragile psyche, he is very much part of the problem.

However, does anyone else see this Catch22 Lou has developed with Hill?

Lou has complained that Hill has been “aiming” the ball rather than throwing it, suggesting that this is more of a mental problem than anything else. Well I’d certainly agree with that assessment, but if you acknowledge the player you’re working with is having a mental block that they can’t get past and you acknowledge its a confidence problem do you really think your antsy tactics are going to improve his confidence????

While Hill has showed this ridiculous control problem here’s what Lou has done:

1) Threated to move him to the bullpen immediately after his first bad start
2) Back off the comments but outwardly show a lack of confidence in the player by suggesting that “something” needs to be done
3) Suggest that he might need to be sent down to Iowa to figure things out
4) Skip his spot in the rotation
5) Remove him in the first inning of a game with Izturis and the pitcher coming up, instead of letting him work through it

Now again, Hill is at fault here for not being able to overcome this issue and throw the ball with confidence, but if you have an admittedly fragile player dealing with confidence issues do you think its the best idea to be peering over his shoulder every pitch he throws???

I don’t understand the tactic. If every move you make as a manager is a sign that you have no confidence in the player when the player is having a confidence issue, how is the player going to garner any confidence????

Am I the only one who notices this? Len and Bob seem VERY protective of Lou in the broadcast with Len going as far to say Lou was doing this to PROTECT Rich’s confidence?? How the heck does that work?

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unbelievable....it's Lou's fault ????

The PROBLEM is straightforward. Rich Hill is a two pitch pitcher who can’t get his great curveball over the plate and has a fastball that sucks. Every team works from a scouting report, and the scouting report on Hill right now is simple. Wait for him to walk you. Either that or sit on his crappy fastball.

by MDBNIU on May 3, 2008 10:02 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes that was the point of my post

or if you actually read the post you’d notice that i suggest twice that Hill is culpable

“Before i get into this let me first say I don’t absolve Rich Hill for his control problems and for his fragile psyche, he is very much part of the problem.”

“Now again, Hill is at fault here for not being able to overcome this issue and throw the ball with confidence, but if you have an admittedly fragile player dealing with confidence issues do you think its the best idea to be peering over his shoulder every pitch he throws???”

I’m suggesting Lou is equally a part of the problem for his handling of the player. If Lou’s job as a manager is to put players in the best position to succeed, his handling of a player with a very fragile psyche has done nothing to help him garner confidence

Rich Hill is the main problem

Lou’s handling of him isn’t getting us any closer to solving the problem

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 10:04 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well..

If on top of everything else Rich Hill also has a fragile pscyhe, then he has zero business being on the 25 man roster. This is a meritocracy and a playoff challenging team. Either Rich Hill gets the job done or Rich Hill is out of here.

by MDBNIU on May 3, 2008 10:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re:

Rich Hill also has a fragile pscyhe,

How is it that you’re aware of the mind-states of persons who only see on TV?

You have a gift, my friend. Don’t hide that under a bushel basket.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 11:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm the one

who believes Rich has a fragile psyche. I noted it above

While admittedly i’m not in his head, i’d suggest the traits of “aiming” the ball and not finishing through the pitch as Len and Bob and many others have suggested before show a “tentativeness” to Hill’s pitching. To me that suggests he’s lost his confidence. As a former athlete, i’m aware of losing confidence and this often leads to tentativeness and “getting tight”. I think that’s where Hill is at right now. He’s terrified of success and trying to aim the ball to make sure he doesn’t BB anyone, because he knows if he does he’s getting yanked or sent to the bullpen or sent down

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:41 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Piniella

has also made comments in the past on how Hill just needs to pitch and trust his stuff.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 11:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see your point,

I’m just wary of psychoanalyzing players solely based on what we see on TV, even those of us who’ve played sports. I think there’s a simpler explanation of Hill’s problems: one, he’s a two-pitch pitcher, two, he can’t throw his curve for strikes consistently, and three, I think he’s tipping his fastball a bit in his motion.

He needs to develop a good straight change (would that he had worked with Maddux on this!) and his arm angle and throwing motion changes ever so slightly when he’s throwing his fastball. Couple a limited repertoire with poor control, and you’ve got this season Rich Hill. As to what to chalk the poor control up to, I have no idea and don’t care to speculate.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 11:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the limited repertoire

allowed him to post a 3.92 ERA and 1.19 WHIP last year in 195 innings

the repertoire isnt the problem as much as the lack of control is. If Hill could control those two pitches, he’d be fine (like he was last year). It’s command that’s killing him. Sure a 3rd pitch would give him a better chance at being a dominant pitcher but I think the main issue is really his command

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:54 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True.

I just think this year it’s the combination. The command is the main issue right now, but I think it’s going to be increasingly difficult for Hill to maintain success at the major league with only a fastball and a curveball, especially since, even last season, he hasn’t yet shown the ability to consistently control the curve. I’d really like to see him add the changeup, or a slider, to give him something to go with when the hammer isn’t working.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 11:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree

with all of that. I’m just noting he’s been successful in the past with just those two pitches

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:59 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah.

Moreover, he’s going to have to learn to be successful with just those two this season, because I don’t think now is the time to start working on stuff!

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 12:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well...

Hill has shown he can dominate with two pitches in the minors and in the bigs. Hill has also shown excellent control through extended periods of times. There’s no reason to think that what he’s going through right now is his only destiny in the majors.

by Luis on May 3, 2008 10:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here's another question

If you know the manager has an extreme lack of confidence in last night’s starter and has the potential to pull the starter in the 1st inning, why on earth would you call up a guy with a surgically repaired elbow who hasn’t been stretched out to replace one of your long men????

Anyone have that answer? Why not keep Hart for one more game to make sure you have an extra long guy in the pen?

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 9:59 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The way I see it

Sending Hart down for Fox was a mistake.

Taking Hill out yesterday at the point he was taken out was also a mistake.

Both moves were too hasteful. You have to give Hill a chance to completely blow up or to get back on track. Bu taking him at that point you figure out neither. As far as Fox, I have no confidence he will be any better than Hart.

by Luis on May 3, 2008 10:03 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chad Fox is a temporary band-aid

Nothing more. He is up here to give the team desperately needed innings. Once that trait has been exploited to its max he will be right back down in the minors.

by MDBNIU on May 3, 2008 10:05 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well that seems like a good strategy

bring a guy up to give you innings who physically hasn’t been stretched out to pitch more than an inning

in the words of the Guinness cartoon characters “BRILLIANT!”

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 10:07 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, what were the other options???

Ascanio has pitched poorly at Triple A. Fox is a journeyman commodity who fits precisely the role he is serving…bring him up to fill temporary need and then jettison him.

by MDBNIU on May 3, 2008 10:09 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

as i mentioned before

you leave Hart up for ONE more day

If Lou is apt to pull Rich Hill in the 1st inning you don’t send a long-man down for a guy who can only give you 1 inning

its pointless

replace Hart with Fox on Saturday if you want to make that move

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 10:12 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No

How on earth was Lou PIniella supposed to know that Rich Hill would be a disaster Friday night? He has been very patient with Hill, and for all we know Piniella and Rothschild felt good about throwing him out there. Obviously if Piniella thought Hill was going to be a 1st inning disaster then he would have done a lot of things different. Hindsight is 20-20.

Kevin Hart has stunk up the joint. Chad Fox was brought up to fill a temporary need. Nobody on this planet pretends that Fox is a long term solutino in the bullpen.

by MDBNIU on May 3, 2008 10:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pineilla pulled him in a 1-0 game after 6 batters

with Caesar Izturis and the pitcher coming up

If you’re willing to pull Hill in that situation, then you’re anticipating him being terrible

you’re not giving him a chance to work out of it

do you think Zambrano would’ve been pulled in that situation?

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 10:16 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm with you all the way on this one

You at least let him face those two guys.

by Luis on May 3, 2008 10:18 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So

if Izturis hits a bases clearing double, then do we pull him? Being down 4-0 against Wainwright in the 1st is a game killer. Piniella isn’t dumb he saw after a few batters Hill control wasn’t there tonight, and knew he had to get him out quick or the game was going to get away from us. Lets not forget he seen this stuff from Hill more then once in the last two months. And Piniella has kept him in those situations, and Hill has given up at least 3 runs each time. If we were facing a weaker pitcher I think Piniella might have kept him in, but the margin for error with Wainwright on the mound isn’t much.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 11:27 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

when has Lou left hill in to work out of it?

seriously?

He was pulled in Colorado after 5 strong innings when he started the 6th with a HR and a BB, pulled immediately, not allowed to work through that inning

He was pulled in Pittsburgh as part of a double switch when Lou got pissed at both Rich and Pie and pulled them both (4th inning, 3 runs allowed)

Next game at home against PITT he was pulled after 5 innings of 1 ER ball after 82 pitches

when has Lou let Rich work through these control problems in a game?

Yes if Izturis hits a 2B to clear the bases and we’re down 4-0, we’re probably going to lose this game, but don’t you think keeping the game at 1-0 and demolishing your bullpen for the series in which you have Lilly and Marquis going afterwards is going to cost you a game down the road as well???

So we played for this one game while sacrificing our bullpen for the next 2 and guaranteeing that Hill has no chance to work through any problems in a major league park

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:36 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point.

Lou has about zero patience with Hill, and perhaps that is contributing to the dip in confidence you suspect of Hill.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 11:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So he should let Hill get bombed?

He has babied Hill to get him from getting bombed and pitching much worse then he has. Hill control isn’t just going to magically get better in some of these games. If Piniella didn’t have a short hook Hill probably has a high five or six era right now.

Pulling a guy after 5 good innings, when he has been struggling to give him confidence and get a win isn’t a bad thing at all. That was very smart by Lou and many agreed with it at time. Letting Hill try to pitch threw problems and possibly get bombed hurts the Cubs and Rich Hill confidence more. Jason Marquis was never the same in 2006 after LaRussa left him in to get hammered against the White Sox. Thats just one example why you don’t do stuff like that. Piniella has seen enough of Hill in the last two months to know if he has it, or is gonna have it by now.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 12:00 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're making an assumption

that Hill IS going to get bombed and he’s not going to improve. If we’re operating under the assumption that he’s going to get bombed, i’d agree its probably not the best idea. But i’d also suggest if you assume he’s going to get bombed, why are you even throwing him out there in the first place??

I dont know if Hill would get bombed or if he’d continue limiting runs like he had in the first 5 innings of those starts. I’d like to see if he can settle into a game and find his mechanics and his confidence again

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 12:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Because

I’m hoping that he gets his confidence back before the start, or figures out whatever is wrong. When Hill walks 4 guys in a inning, I don’t see him magically just finding the strike zone for the rest of the game. Or at least not with the way he as struggled this year.

If Hill was pitching most of the year with decent control, and did it. Then I could understand keeping him in and seeing if he could work through it. But the guy hasn’t had good control all year, I doubt he’s just going to find it during a game when he didn’t have it to start the game. Piniella in a loss loss situation, if he keeps in him in the game to get bombed. He has fans bashing him for giving away the game, and ruining his confidence even more. If he pulls him early he blows out his bullpen, and gets bashed for not giving Hill a chance. This is the Major leagues, we can’t have this crap going on, so Hill needs to figure it out soon, or we gotta try something different with him. IMO Piniella has babied him alot this year and tried to limit his innings so he wouldn’t get bombed and lose all his confidence.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 12:19 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Zambrano

never has struggled this bad in his career either. Plus don’t act like this is the first start Hill has done this season. Piniella just had a quicker hook because we were facing the Cardinals with a very good pitcher on the mound. So if Hill gives up 4-5 runs in the first the game is most likely over already. It’s beyond the point of just letting Hill work through it. Hill control issues aren’t going to get any better in the big leagues.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 11:22 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do you have all answers?

You know everything about baseball…..insert a crazy amount of sarcasm here.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 3, 2008 10:08 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I disagree

If Hill stays in that game we have no chance of winning it. Piniella knows Hill struggling right now, it’s pretty obvious when you see it there live. He knew he wasn’t magically going to get better. So does he give away that game, and let Hill get bombed? Or bring in Wuertz for 1.1 IP and while letting Lieber getting warmed up? Personally I like that he went for the win, sure we lost anyways, but that was more the offense not hitting then the pitching results. Hill is very very very lucky to have a 4 something era at this point. If Piniella doesn’t pull him early in a few of these starts it’s easily 5-6 right now with the way he has struggled to throw strikes.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 11:19 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so you disagree

that we shouldn’t have brought up Fox instead of K. Hart?

because that’s the argument in the original post…not whether Lou should’ve pulled Hill or not

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:30 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No

we should have never sent Kevin Hart down, that was a bad move IMO. Kevin Hart had a 3.68 era in 9 games and 14 innings before his game on Tuesday. So he’s had pretty much one bad game and was sent down for Fox.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 11:35 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well...

you might want to check what you’re replying to in the future, because the post in question was debating the merits of sending Hart down for Fox, when you have a pitcher on the mound the manager has little confidence in and you’ll likely need a long man rather than a short man

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I knew that

but Lou still had Lieber and Marshall around, rested Howry and Wuertz who could go 2 innings. It wasn’t smart to send down Hart, but just because we didn’t have Hart isn’t a reason not to pull Hill in that situation. Especially since we can always make a roster move today to bring up another pitcher. Plus I dunno if Hart pitches more then two or three innings even if he doesn’t give up any runs.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 11:43 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay, so at least it looks like Ramirez is going to be okay

I had a definite Derrek Lee-moment when he got hit. he’ll miss some time but at least it’s not broken-we can’t aford to have him out of the line-up for any length of time.
As for Soriano-I’m not going to rehash all of his flaws-what really gets me is that Hendry signed him without, seemingly, doing any homework on what this guy was. It seems so obvious now how one dimensional and rock headed he is-you’d think before he throw 136 million at him, Hendry would’ve sat down with some people-scouts, etc. and talked about this stuff. Geez, just reading some old Nationals-Rangers-yankees fan post might’ve done the trick!
But now we’re stuck with him and, as much as this sucks, all we can do is grin and bear it.
last week somebody posted about possibly trading him to the Giants for Zito. At the time I thought that was pretty insane but I’m starting to warm up to it. I mean, at least Zito could only hurt us every five games.

by bluekoolaide on May 3, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One loss

Sori is a pro. I have ripped him on other blogs and Lou knows his player and ripping him in the media accomplishes nothing.

I fully expect Sori to work his ass off and make himself hot.
Is he selfish? I believe so yes. He should have played a game at the minor league level at least one. It was obvious and Bob and Len said as much.

The Cubs will be alright. I feared the return of Sori.
The team seemed to mesh during the winning streak whereas now they look like the train came off the track.

Lou will fix it but it is obvious he doesn’t know how to right at this point. I mean why get mad if you know the answer? It’s only when you don’t know the answer the anger comes out.

The Cubs will be great in 2008!

by Scott G F on May 3, 2008 10:19 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lou shouldn't rip him in the media

But Lou should pull him down in the lineup at least to the 6th spot (better to 7th). Everybody knows this. It’s time for Lou to act.

by Luis on May 3, 2008 10:25 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

seems pretty obvious it's mechanical

rich hill might be a bit of a head case. but last night, it was painfully obvious that his problem was mechanical. he was short striding all of those fastballs and trying to aim them. he had no consistency in his stride or in his follow through. as len and bob said, he was stopping short and recoiling, instead of finishing his pitch. and it was different every single time. needs to find a way to repeat his motion and not get so tight.

now it’s possible that his mechanics are out of whack because he’s compensating for an injury. maybe a bad back or tight quad.

but there’s no way i’d trade him yet. send him down for a few starts. make him work on repeating his motion. no reason he can’t succeed again. he just seems like the type of personality that needs to be put in a situation to succeed for awhile, instead of wilting under pressure.

by billywan on May 3, 2008 10:46 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you said it pretty clearly

he’s “aiming” and “getting tight”

that’s a mental issue dealing with confidence

while you’re right the mechanics are a mess, that much is clear, the mechanics are a mess because he’s lost confidence and is afraid of missing… so he’s aiming the ball and trying to make it go over the plate instead of just throwing it

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What can we do

to fix Rich Hill confidence? I would love to keep him in the big leagues and pitching every 5th day. But he can’t go out there and pitch like he has this season. Piniella has pulled him in starts to give him confidence twice now, and Hill still continues to fall apart. It’s almost to a point now were I don’t think Hill can be fixed in the major leagues. Maybe he has to go down to Triple A and pitch lights out to get him right. Thats what happen before Hill was awesome in Triple A and came up got his first win in a Cubs blow out and was a very good pitcher for a year and half after that.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 11:34 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm not a sports psychologist

so i don’t really know what we can do.

I’m just making a logical guess that criticizing the guy and threatening him after every start with ideas about going to the bullpen, having starts skipped, being sent down aren’t likely to “give him confidence”

Maybe i’m just not seeing how Lou has made an attempt to give Rich confidence. Pulling him early in starts doesn’t seem to give him confidence when you’re following it up by publicly stating his spot in the rotation isn’t safe

that to me would seem to be adding pressure to the situation

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:44 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hill

has never had his starts skipped. He has had starts pushed back two or three days both times. One was to keep Zambrano on his regular rest, and another team was to avoid facing the Brewers who hit LH pitching well. Going to the bullpen was a overreaction by the media, Hill was there for two days since he was having his start pushed back a few days. Piniella has said all spring when he was struggling his spot was safe, that didn’t change the fact he sucked in April. Piniella has pulled Hill after five ok innings twice, when he has had the lead to try to get him a win and give him confidence. If Hill stays in those games and gives up the lead, it’s only gonna hurt his confidence more. I can’t really blame Piniella for this stuff, he’s been trying but like he said everytime Hill starts it’s adventure. Either he can’t throw or a strike or he’s still walking a bunch of people and has base runners on almost every inning for 5-6 innings.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 11:52 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he was just skipped

marquis took his spot and he had 8 days in between starts

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/912654,CST-SPT-cubnt24.article

maybe we’re talking semantics here… but to me that was hill getting skipped

Again, Hill is certainly the main problem here. My only suggestion is that Lou’s handling of him hasn’t put Hill in the best situation to work his way out of this problem

I understand the tactic of pulling him after 5 to try to get a win and get some confidence. but lou has followed that up with abrasive reactions to Hill through the Media and then skipping his spot or pushing him back 4-5 days (however you’d like to put it).

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't count that as skipping

getting a start pushed back two or three days for a better match up happens sometimes during the course of the season. There’s just more focus on it now because Hill is struggling so much. Pushing these starts back always were planned even and weren’t results related, Piniella and Hendry said that. But also keep in mind Piniella by pushing Hill back was puitting him in a postion to be successful. Putting Hill against the Brewers with his control issues and with the way they hit LH pitching, would be like throwing him to the wolves. Pitching Hill against the Cardinals who usually don’t Hill LH pitching well, should have gave him a good chance of having a good start.

by cubsfan25 on May 3, 2008 12:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

matchups

the Cardinals are the most patient team in MLB with a .374 OBP

Millwaukee is 20th with a .320 OBP

yes MIL “hits” LH’s better, but Hill’s problem hasn’t been getting HIT, its been walking batters

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 3, 2008 12:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Send him to Iowa and let him pitch every fifth day. He’s obviously screwed up somehow; he needs to get his confidence back and that’s not something you can/should do when you are trying to win major league games.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 3, 2008 11:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know the rest of you are bummed out about last night, but Len and Bob gave me a good laugh

I was incommunicado for much of last night – by the time I got home and turned on the TV, the bottom of the 9th had just started. I saw Wood’s first pitch and figured I was a jinx. Thankfully, Ankiel’s drive fell short. Then as the game went into extra innings, they showed highlights, and I got to see Soriano’s misplayed fly ball, as well as his game-tying home run. So I’m thinking, man, the game thread must have really lit up on those two plays…

But the real chuckle came when Soriano came up in the 11th. I think it was Len who said something like ”...and here’s the man responsible for sending the game into extra innings.” I just started laughing because I’m sure Len meant his game-tying homerun, but all I could think about (and I know a thousand other BCBers were thinking the same thing) was the easily catchable fly ball that Soriano misplayed.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 3, 2008 10:55 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I felt he was referring

to all events that Sori was responsible for.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on May 3, 2008 12:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soriano

the Cubs weren’t stupid when they signed him. They had to sign him to get back on the map after such a crappy year in 2006. Who knows, they might not have signed Lilly or re-signed Aram had they not made a splash with the Soriano signing. The lack of plate discipline and bad defense should come as no surprise to everyone, and yes its frustrating, but let’s not get carried away here- he’s still a very good player, and will get hot.

by lance dickson on May 3, 2008 11:02 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's the Lou I know.

If you are a veteran he will give you every chance int he world and will let you be. But if you are not an established player he won’t coddle you up or cover for your mistakes. The first part of this statement is Dusty-like; the second part isn’t.

Lou’s publicly stated approach to this situation is not right. Taking a player out for defensive purposes should not embarrass that player and if it does, it’s the player’s problem. it doesn’t mean it’s the wrong move.

However, sometimes I feel that Lou says one thing to the press though he believes something else. It’s part of his job to take the pressure away from his players. Somehow, I feel this is one of those situations.

by Fraggin Judge on May 3, 2008 11:09 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you are right on the money here.

n/t

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on May 3, 2008 3:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bullpen woes

Anyone think the Cubs will try to acquire Turnbow?

"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston

by Calhoun on May 3, 2008 11:38 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope.

I think Turnbow is done.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 3, 2008 11:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I kinda agree

Everytime the Cards play the Brewers I am just hoping they will bring Turnbow in!

"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston

by Calhoun on May 3, 2008 11:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no way he's done

he’s gonna be back somewhere, for sure. he still throws mid 90’s. still has a good curve. he’s just got some pretty bad mechanics at the moment that make it hard for him to control his location. he’ll sign on somewhere, a pitching coach will make some adjustments and he’ll be back.

farnsworth is still in the major’s, for crying out loud…

by billywan on May 3, 2008 11:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And Farnsworth is horrid.

He’s only there because he’s under contract. IIRC this is the last year of Farnsworth’s deal—he’s done after this year.

Turnbow throws about 93-94. That’s good, but when he was successful he could consistently throw 98+. That doesn’t sound like a significant difference, but for a guy who lives on his fastball, it probably is.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 3, 2008 12:14 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I doubt it.

They’ve already got a batting tee down in the clubhouse and it doesn’t look nearly as bad in the uniform as Turnbow does.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 3, 2008 11:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who knows? We brought over Marquis.

I could see it happening. Mike calls Greg who calls Larry. Ha.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on May 3, 2008 11:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lily

Moving on from yesterday. Lily was the stopper last year ending several losing streaks. We need to see that Lily here today now!

"You would never guess that a little innocent walk like that could lead to two runs" -- Dusty Baker

by KyCubsFan on May 3, 2008 11:42 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, I don't expect this to go well.

The trick is if we can get to Lohse early. We’ve killed him in the past. It sure would be nice to put up another 19-spot.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on May 3, 2008 11:50 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll settle for scoring one more run than St. Louis does.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 3, 2008 11:51 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Coward.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on May 3, 2008 11:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Same old, same old

Another inside information on a trade from the same old sources that have never been right. At the moment Hill is going nowhere but to the minors to work on his control. And Lou is doing what he has to do to make the team work. Those who think that managing a team is all about what goes on in the game no nothing about management. Sometimes you have to work with someone during a bad time to get the best out of them when they start producing. Even the best players will have issues, we don’t know what is going on in their lives and they are not cards in a board game. Give Soriano some slack and he will produce, treat him like a POS and you’ll have season long problems.

Oh and Ichiro is going nowhere. The M’s aren’t trading him, lest of all for Soriano. Bavazi, who should have been fired before he was hired, would find his time with Howard Lincoln a living hell if he did such a thing. Not to mention that the fans would hang him high if he even hinted that he would trade Ichiro.

Sometimes I think that Lee Elia was right about Chicago fans. The press in Chicago these days would make Carmichael want to give them a close shave in the Barber Shop.

by bubbamike the one and only on May 3, 2008 2:11 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon
Start posting about the Cubs »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Images_small
Creative Writing: July 1, the Day that Changed Everything
Pitching3_small
OT: The Next Generation: The Playoffs
Small
Cubs need to make a trade
Sexy_chicago_cubs_002_small
My Own Personal Forgetting DeRosa Pictures....Sure to make you smile.
Small
Top Prospects part 1

Recent FanPosts

Cubs-5_small
Questions about new ownership...
Cutler_small
Mike Fontenot demotion?
Capt_5375a8d00e0742c0864cdb642c18eb1f_pirates_cubs_zambrano_ejected_baseball_cxc109_small
What to do with the bench
Small
Booing or not booing and why
L_bb30e2f156464d9a95bd9408091eb725_small
The Cubs need to go 7-4 the next 11 games.
Fukudome_bleachers_small
The Top 5 Cubs Games of June
Untitled-1_copy_small
Biggest Cub Killer?
Img_1535_small
Time To Give Randy Wells His Due
Small
Pinella voted least desired manager to play for in SI players poll

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

via ESPN

Ronald Reagan
AP Photo/Charles Tasnadi

President Ronald Reagan throws out the ceremonial first pitch Sept. 30, 1988, at Wrigley Field before the Chicago Cubs played host to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Reagan later went to the broadcast booth and helped announce the first part of the game.
Cubs deal for Rockies' Jeff Baker
Bart Given on Gameboard vs. Lou
Cubs calling up outfielder Sam Fuld
Len Kasper's Lunch With Ernie Harwell

Recent FanShots

Peoria Chiefs @ Kane County Cougars 7/3/09
Coincidence or not, Soto has hit .315 with five home runs and 10 RBIs in...
Aramis Ramirez and Reed Johnson during warm ups at their rehab assignment with the Peoria Chiefs at Kane County.  Aramis Ramirez missed a home run by about 2 feet at his first at bat and ended up with a stand up double.  He later took a base-on-balls and scored twice. Reed Johnson also had a hit and scored.  Here are the rest of the photos.
Sam Fuld to lead off Saturday
Cubs sign Casey Fossum to a Minor League Deal
7/3:Cubs vs. Brewers

It's more walk-off magic for the Cubs, when a bases-leaded walk to Jake Fox gives them the 2-1, extra-innings win.

Damen Jackson (Cubbie Nation)
7/3:Cubs vs. Brewers

It's yet another episode of "Outfield Adventures", starring Milton Bradley, as he'd lose this Jason Kendall-hit ball in the sun Friday against the Brewers.


Damen Jackson (Cubbie Nation)
7/3:Cubs vs Brewers

Jeff Suppan is thrown out by Kosuke Fukudome in the seventh inning of the Cubs 2-1 win.

Or as Kenny Powers would put it, "You're %@$@#!! out!!"

Damen Jackson (Cubbie Nation)
"Sources tell me Soriano will bat 6 in tomorrows lineup vs....
Buster Olney said a few days ago that the Braves would entertain offers for their 26 year old shortstop (who makes 450k) Yunel Escobar. He is a plus bat, a solid defender, and would move Theriot to his more appropriate position at second.

They are looking for a bat in return. Apparently Cox doesn't like the guy. 

I couldn't even speculate what we'd have to send them in return, but I think he would be a good fit given his low salary, his productive bat, his position, and his age.  I don't care if he's a jerk if he makes the team win more.

What would it take?

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

Recent Stories in Game Threads

Yelloncard_small
Overflow Thread 1: Cubs vs. Brewers, Saturday 7/4, 12:05 CT
Yelloncard_small
Luckiest Man: Cubs vs. Brewers Preview, Saturday 7/4, 12:05 CT
Yelloncard_small
Overflow Thread 3: Cubs vs. Brewers, Friday 7/3, 1:20 CT

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges

Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: July 24-30 Homestand
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: General 2009 Ticket Exchange
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: July 2-12 Homestand

SPONSORS


Editor-in-Chief

Yelloncard_small Al

Editorial Cartoonist

Toonmike_small toonmike

Contributors

Dsc_0139_small holy mackerel

100px-boisehawkscaplogo_small Josh77

Official Partner of Yahoo! Sports