Pick-Me-Up: Cubs 8, Rockies 4
by Al on May 30, 2008 6:00 AM CDT
in Recaps
194 comments
A soft rain began falling in the middle innings, let up, then started falling again right as the Cubs' 8-4 win over the Rockies was ending; as I walked out of the park with my son Mark (attending a night game on a school night because all his schoolwork for the year is done), he said, "That looks cool in the lights."
It did. And so did all of last night's game. The title of this post is one of the reasons I'm really starting to like this team -- beyond its now major-league-best 33-21 record, after the mighty Rays were vanquished by the White Sox -- it's how each of the members of this year's Cubs seem to pick each other up when one falters.
Jason Marquis threw pretty well last night, getting through five innings mostly unscathed. He got in trouble in the sixth, and loaded the bases, forcing Lou to yank him for the just-recalled Neal Cotts. Cotts nearly got out of it, but when he walked Todd Helton to re-load the bases after Willy Taveras' two-run pinch single had tied it (the two runs charged, of course, to Marquis), Michael Wuertz picked up Cotts by striking out Garrett Atkins with the bases loaded.
And then, after Wuertz had coughed up the lead in the top of the seventh -- and it could have been worse if not for a nice snare of a sinking line drive by Reed Johnson in CF, who flipped to Mark DeRosa for an inning-ending DP (Johnson could have run in and done it himself, that's how far off second Ian Stewart was) -- the Cubs came right back with a couple of dinky singles, some shoddy fielding by Rockies pitcher Matt Herges, and a nice AB by Geovany Soto with the bases loaded to tie the game with a sac fly.
The rest of the team put the game away in the 8th inning, with the crowd of 39,851 on its feet roaring, DeRosa led off with a double, and when Johnson tried to sacrifice, there was more bad fielding by a Rockies pitcher, this time Taylor Buchholz throwing the ball away, and then everyone hit; Micah Hoffpauir got his first ML RBI (I thought of calling my friend Phil, who had called to give me grief about Hoffpauir earlier in the day by claiming he was going to start -- yeah, right, Phil, against a LHP), and then Alfonso Soriano put the game out of Kerry Wood save reach with his 2nd RBI of the night. About the crowd, I am beginning to notice something I saw during 2003, as the season went on and the games took on more importance -- the amount of idiot behavior is being drastically reduced. Why? Because everyone's into the action on the field. As it should be.
Soriano now has 31 RBI, despite missing two weeks. In 2007, missing about the same amount of time early in the year, he didn't get his 31st RBI until July 2.
Derrek Lee -- same thing. He hit his 13th HR of the year tonight. Last year he hit his 13th HR on August 14. (Incidentally, before last night, Jeff Francis had never retired D-Lee. He did twice -- but also gave up that HR, the first XBH that Lee had off him. Prior to last night, Lee was 6-for-6 off Francis, all singles.)
This was a total team effort and I salute this team for gelling like this, one-third of the way through after last night, on pace for 99 wins, which would be the most for a Cubs team since 1935. Now, this is kind of a "chicken or the egg" argument: does winning breed good team chemistry, or does good team chemistry breed winning? I'll say it's a little of both, with a lot of talent, ability and good management mixed in. This team has, despite its flaws which we discuss every day on this site, enough of all of that, at least it would appear so as May draws to a close.
We were joined for Thursday's game by BCB reader simonuk, here visiting from England, sitting in the bleachers for the first time, and also Sarah Hope, who was happy to see her hero Kerry Wood pitch (Jon Lieber started to warm up after the Cubs took a four-run lead, but Lou said in his postgame remarks that Wood was ready, so that's why he was used). Kerry mixed up his fastballs and breaking stuff well and you can see that he's starting to trust his offspeed pitches more and more each outing. With only 17 pitches thrown, he should be available tomorrow.
And not that I'm superstitious or anything, but in each of the three night games this week, the Cubs have been trailing going into the bottom of the 7th, and I have taken that opportunity to visit the men's room. And each night, the Cubs have mounted a comeback after that. Just sayin'.
And all of you should pitch in so I can take my son more often. His personal record is now 6-0. (And he got two baseballs during BP last night.) I'll have a game thread up in a few hours.
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I think the two very important signs of a team that can go deep into October are coming from behind to win, and scoring with two outs. This team, at least at home, has been doing both. I hope Lou can keep this team in the mindset that they are in now, and not let them get into a summer funk.
by punchnpie325 on May 30, 2008 6:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The last 3 games
I wouldn’t say that I was convinced, but wasn’t surprised that the Cubs found a way to win. The ability to come from behind and score with two outs has to be breeding confidence.
by Shanghai Badger on May 30, 2008 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I meant was
That I wasn’t convinced before the rally. Not that I wasn’t convinced that they are a good team, because I am convinced of that.
It just was completely unsurprising that they found a way to get it done each game . . . and when the players believe that they can come back to win any game, it becomes self-fullfilling.
by Shanghai Badger on May 30, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The signs that I see for October point...
...”Wrigley Stadium” for a great home filed advantage, a much improved offense that should be able to do a better job scoring in the playoffs, one dominant starter, and a potentially dominant bullpen.
The downsides are that the Cubs O may be inflated by guys who are plating way over their heads now and come September they might be back to their historical levels. The rotation is okay but teams should score on us in the playoffs as only Z seems capable of shutting teams down, which to me places a strong emphasis on the offense, the bullpen and the defense. In close games the defense is huge and in my opinion this team has poor IF defense and one poor defender in the OF.
Overall, it’s good enough to compete for the world series slot.
by DudeVf11 on May 30, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And everyone here...
... should be rooting REAL hard for the NL to win the All-Star Game. The NL hasn’t had home field advantage since the “This Time It Counts” thing was started for the ASG in 2003.
Time to get it back, and time for the Cubs to benefit.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 30, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the voting keeps going the way it is
it’ll essentially be the Cubs vs. the AL All-stars. Keep voting people, i’ve already spent my 25.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or
the cubs vs. the red sox
"The 12 second rule is how long it takes Carlos Lee to hear, turn around, run over, find and eat a hot dog dropped by a fan in the Crawford Boxes at Minute Maid park" - ballhawk
by MScubbie on May 30, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same thing.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or the Cubs vs. the worst picks in the A.L.
that’s what I’m voting for . . . .
by Shanghai Badger on May 30, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just read my sig line.
They EXPECT to win. And so they do.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
deep into October
I think it’s the fact that we haven’t lost more than 2 games in a row all season. Many of those 2 game losing streaks were hardly fought games too. I think if and when we make the playoffs, we would definitely be poised to make a deep run.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on May 30, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Credit for Lou?
It’s always questionable in baseball, more so than football or basketball, for how much a manager contributes to a team’s success. Yeah, they can screw things up by putting the wrong people in the wrong place, particularly pitchers, but there’s not too much “team” strategy as it boils down to players being able to either put a ball in play or generate an out.
I’d like to give Piniella some credit for fostering professionalism on this team, something that was lacking with the Toothpicked-one. It took Lou some time to get rid of deadwood (Barrett comes to mind) and shape the relief corps into one of the best in baseball. The Cubs were finally able to build around the big 3 (Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano) and have an outfield that’s competitive with the rest of the league.
While we may not agree with how he’s handling the 4-headed utility man (Theriot-DeRosa-Cedeno-Fontenot) by not playing Cedeno more, he is getting results. As the season wears on we’ll see how fortunate he is with the starting pitching, since there are plenty of question marks past Z.
Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!
by SpudV on May 30, 2008 6:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Theriot
Don’t want to rehash all the stuff that’s been said about the Theriot-Cedeño debate. But I will say that I think people are being overly critical with Lou on this one. Defensively Cedeño is better although more prone to make errors. He gets to more balls and has a better arm. The reason he is in the bench is because, among other things, he posted an OBP of .271 in 2006 and .231 in 2007. He has outperformed Theriot this year, and has looked great, but let’s not forget the fact that we are talking about a very limited sample size of 81 ABs. In 2005, in 80 ABs he put up a .300 AVG and a .356 OBP and look what happened next. Theriot, with the pressure of being a starter has responded and put up a fantastic .399 OBP, and as has been said here previously (although people tend to have selective memory sometimes) OBP is more important than slugging, and especially in the 2nd slot in the order.
What am I saying? I’m saying that it’s not all cut and dry as some people think. Yes, Cedeño is better and projects to be better. The way he is performing now is an upgrade over Theriot. But, as happened with his performance in 2005, that can change. I don’t think Lou is at fault for keeping Theriot at SS at this point. Sample size can’t be small for Felix yet big enough for Cedeño. Do you think Lou should yank Theriot the moment Cedeño puts together 30 good ABs? Especially if Theriot is performing very well offensively for a SS? That doesn’t make sense. I don’t think that sends a good message to the team either.
As long as Theriot has a near .400 OBP his is very valuable to this team. It’s not cut and dry. That’s all I’m saying.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I partially agree,
but I think you underestimate the extent to which Theriot’s limited range and poor arm can affect a game, especially with a staff that can induce a lot of groundballs. The arguments in favor of Theriot always revolve around BA and OBP, because everything outside of those two things—hitting for power, baserunning, defense, etc. say he’s really not worthy of a starting spot.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worthy is relative
To the alternatives.
Obviously, it’s not worthy to the 2008 version of Cedeño. However, if you had to choose, who would you take: 2006 Cedeño with better range and arm and an OBP of .271/.231 or Theriot 2008? I don’t think Lou is at fault for not replacing Theriot the minute he sees something good from Cedeño. He will have to earn it. If he keeps producing like this he will end up a starter I have no doubt about it.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless it's Rey Sanchez...
My vote is always for the better defensive SS.
SS and CF: Defense first!
Cedeno/Pie 2008. Yes we can!
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Si, se puede!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To each his own
I wouldn’t take 2006 Cedeño over 2008 Theriot. No way jose.
I would take 2008 Cedeño over 2008 Theriot. Except we don’t know who 2008 Cedeño is because of limited sample size. I say you increase his at bats gradually if he keeps performing but you don’t yank Theriot to give him an everyday shot. Not while Theriot has a .400 OBP.
If Cedeño keeps performing I think his time for a full time job will come in 2009, most likely. And that ain’t bad either.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone here is clamoring for Cedeno to start 7 games a week right now.
That’s a recipe for failure, and Cedeno can’t afford another failure.
But, why does Cedeno start once ever 2 weeks? Dat’s crazy, especially for a player with more tools.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on May 30, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't
place the decision between the 2006 Cedeno and the 2008 Theriot. It’s between 2008 Ronny and 2008 Theriot. And the 2008 Ronny isn’t second in the league in errors-Theriot is-2008 Ronny doesn’t lead the ML in CS-Theriot does-2008 Ronny has 19 RBI in 81 AB, while 2008 Theriot has 13 RBI in 199 AB. Now, of course you’‘ll say “But Theriot bats in the 2-hole, thus the lack of RBI.” That’s a valid point, but I argue that it’s also got something to do with the fact that Theriot has almost no power, and fewer doubles generally means fewer RBI. Ryan Theriot has 9 2B in 199 AB; Ronny has 7 2B in 81 AB.
I want Theriot on this team and I think he’s a valuable piece—in a reserve IF role. His BA and OBP are nice helped this team at the plate, but those numbers are likely unsustainable and his defense remains inadequate. cwyers pointed out in the game thread last night that only one SS in the ML with at least 400 chances has made fewer out of zone plays. I’d like to see Theriot go into the reserve IF role as his bat cools and get 2-3 starts a week at SS and 2B. I don’t hate Ryan Theriot, but I also don’t want him playing everyday.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you
But I think Theriot deserves the spot until he deserves to lose it. Right now, he hasn’t done anything to lose it…..
Cedeno had all of 2006 and part of last year to prove it and he didn’t. Theriot sat back, paid his dues, and now he’s reaping the benefits.
If Theriot goes into a slum, you’ll see Cedeno thrown right in there.
I didn’t realzie how weak Theriot’s arm was until I saw it live a couple of weeks ago. It was a freaking rainbow to first base.
by walsh2317 on May 30, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cedeno has earned more playing time
i agree that Theriot should be given the benefit of the doubt while he floats his average above .300 and is doing the right things at the plate, but his defense has really hurt the team lately. Throws in the dirt cost us the game last Saturday night, an error last night, another throw in the dirt a few days ago. I think it is becoming clear that Theriot is a below average defender and this alone is reason enough to give Cedeno a least a start at short once a week. If Theriot starts to slump his job should most definitely be in question.
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on May 30, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
theriot
also has scored many more runs than cedeno. And in this homestand, i’ve noticed that theriot always seems to be right in the middle of those late inning rallies…...Theriot isn’t the typical shortstop physically but he is doing a fine job there. He was caught stealing a lot in the beginning of the year but it seems to me that he isn’t running as much, so I don’t see that as being much of a problem anymore. I also disagree with the argument to put him as a reserve while his bat cools. He hasn’t shown any signs of cooling off, and even if he was going to, its just as likely that cedeno’s bat is going to cool off
by cubsmania on May 30, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Lord.
He’s had more than twice as many AB’S!!!!!!!! With that OBP, and the Cubs middle of the order, you’d expect Theriot to score more runs, plus Ronny can’t score runs in GAMES IN WHICH HE DOES NOT PLAY.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This makes no sense.
I’ll let Gary’s comment speak as to why.
Theriot’s clutchness (clutchosity?) is exactly why he’s best suited for the reserve IF role. Pinch hit him in a big situation, or when you want to lead off an inning with him late.
Theriot can then finish out the game. But we’re better with Cedeno starting.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are probably right
that it is just as likely that Cedeno’s bat will cool down, but over the long haul of a season I think Cedeno would post better offensive stats.
That being said, Theriot’s OPS is a surprising .789 and he is only behind Lee and Ramirez on the team in runs scored. His defense though needs to improve, Cedeno has a much better arm and more range and it will be hard to make a case that Theriot should be the starter if Cedeno’s bat stays hot and Theriot’s defense stays shaky at best.
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on May 30, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SS-NOT ABOUT THE BATS
This is the toughest defensive position on the field. Why do we trot out a below average defensive SS who is nominally better at offense than the slightly above-average defensive SS we have on our bench?
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, that's conceding a point that I don't believe
that Theriot is better at offense than Cedeno.
Theriot cannot hit for extra bases. CAN NOT.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
theriot
can not hit for extra bases? He’s a singles hitter but he CAN hit for extra bases sometimes. regardless, what we need from him in the two hole is to get on base and get things started before lee and ramirez and he has done that and more.
by cubsmania on May 30, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot is slugging .296 this month
and .381 for his career, and even that anemic SLG is boosted by his .522 SLG in 2006. He has no power. If he does double, it’s a slap up the line, not a gapper.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a singles hitter who doesn't steal bases.
Bad combo. GIDP city for Lee and Ramirez.
I’ll let cwyers tell you about his extra-base hitting, it’s one of his favorite subjects.
Didn’t mean to derail my argument though: SS is a defense first position, and we’re trotting out the worse defensive selection even though the offense of the two players are close.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you insist.
There are 182 players qualified for the batting title; only nine of them have hit for less power than Theriot. We are not talking about a minor liability here; we are talking about one of the most punchless hitters in either league.
And half of them would pass him if you remove his entirely wind-aided home run.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
And how many of those qualified for the batting title have a better or even close OBP to the one Theriot has? How about shortstops?
Considering OBP is more important than slugging, and I’d imagine even more in the 2 hole, then that’s part of the argument too.
Let’s give the complete story please.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yes, let's please have the complete story.
Theriot is hitting .317/.402/.387, for a crisp 106 OPS+ – just a shade above league average so far. In order for Theriot to keep his OPS+ above 100, he needs to:
- Keep batting above .300 for the rest of the season,
- Somehow increase his walk rate further (at .122 it’s already jumped considerably from last year’s .082), or
- Start hitting for extra bases.
And so long as we’re being complete, let’s go ahead and note:
- Ryan Theriot leads all of baseball in caught stealings, with eight. That’s three more than the next highest.
- He’s second in the NL in errors for shortstops and has the third-lowest fielding percentage as well.
- What makes the previous even more astounding is the fact that he can’t even get to as many baseballs as most NL shortstops. Only one NL shortstop with as many as 400 innings played has fewer out of zone plays than Theriot. He’s already made six plays fewer than the average shortstop would given the same number of opportunities; only two shortstops in the NL are worse.
Theriot is 17th in BA and 21st in OBP among qualified players in both leagues – yay Theriot! But that’s not what’s getting left out; you can’t turn a corner without someone brining up those facts.
In every other baseball skill – hitting for power, running the bases and fielding his position – Theriot has been awful; not just below average, but near the bottom. He’s one of the worst power hitters, worst baserunners and worst fielders for his position. That’s the complete story.
You say you’re not convinced that Cedeno is ready to be an everyday shortstop? Neither am I. But I sure as hell want to find out sooner rather than later, because if he isn’t then we don’t have one unless you’re utterly convinced that Theriot will bat over .300 for the remainder of the season. And discovering that we don’t have an everyday shortstop AFTER the trading deadline rather than before would be rather inconvenient, I think.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just had a random thought
which is a cya way of saying I haven’t thought it through completely (or not at all), but would it be statistically relevant if you factored “caught stealing” into your OBP? Don’t quote me on the math, but if you subtract the number of caught stealings from the number of times you got on base, would that give you a truer “OBP”? Or is that too punitive?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably exaggerates the impact a bit.
There are three components to the value of any PA – advancing the runner, becoming a baserunner and avoiding the out. A walk/single plus a caught stealing is slightly more valuable than an out at the plate because it advances the runner more often.
One thing I want to emphasize, though, is that being caught stealing is roughly twice as detrimental as stealing a base is helpful.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Riddle me this
He’s made 6 less plays than the average shortstop given the same oportunities. Dandy.
How many times has been on base more than the average shortstop?
If Theriot stops hittings you have Cedeño. If Cedeño then stops hitting too you have to live with that. This team is not going to go for a shortstop at the trade deadline. You should have figured that out already.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then why the hell don't we just make Daryle Ward the shortstop, then?
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he's on the DL, silly... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting reply
Why don’t you just answer the question?
by Luis on May 30, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because you don't seem to care about anything...
...but the ONE CATEGORY where Theriot does well at. And I’m not going to have that arguement. Yes, if you ignore all of the bad things about Theriot he’s not bad. Congratulations. I don’t see what that’s supposed to prove.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relative value
Because I’m evaluating Theriot’s relative value. How much runs does Theriot’s defense cost the team relative to how much runs his offense provides. I’m sure there’s a statistic for this, no? If there is, how does he compare to the other shortstops in the league?
by Luis on May 30, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
go-go
Gadget Sabermetrics! :D
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Took me a bit longer than 10 minutes - still had the spreadsheet set up for preseason projections.
The stat I use to combine defense and offense into one overall metric is WAR – Wins Above Replacement. Here’s a quick overview into how I calculate WAR. (I don’t include baserunning in WAR currently because I don’t have in-season PBP data – Theriot’s basestealing has cost the team approximately one marginal run so far this season, FWIW.)
Here’s the WAR for NL shortstops. Essentially, here’s what you’re looking at:
wOBA – A rate version of linear weights. wOBA is not park adjusted.
oRAA – Runs above average, offense. Derived from wOBA. oRAA is park-adjusted.
Defense – Runs saved/allowed versus average NL shortstop. Calculated using BIS RZR data available from The Hardball Times.
WAR – Offensive and defensive runs (along with a bonus for position, since shortstop is a premium defensive position) converted into wins. Essentially, 10 runs = 1 marginal win.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should probably include the kicker.
Theriot is 11th out of 18 NL shortstops. What makes this funny is that WAR is playing time dependant. Theriot is sixth in the NL in plate appearances at SS.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll trust your data here
I don’t have the time nor probably the suficient ability to understand all you’ve done here (I’ve looked into other calculations you’ve done in the past). But I don’t have any reason to suspect your calculations/formulas aren’t well developed.
As far as the calculations for baserunning, I’m not sure I trust them yet. For example, Berkman in 2006 had a -1.50 and in -10.32 in 2004. For a guy who should be getting worse with age the numbers don’t agree at all. There were some wild fluctuations for Furcal too, 12.46 for 2004 to 1.59 in 2006. Unless there was some kind of injury you don’t expect something as consistent as baserunning (which would decline very gradually with age) would have those fluctuations. I think there are other factors which the formulas must not take to account that are relevant.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something got deleted
In my other post. Seems Theriot is below average to very below average (if playing time is factored in). I’ll say I was wrong then. To finish this off I’ll just say that Cedeño, if not this year, will certainly be a regular next year. Too late or not too late, but if he keeps playing like this he will get his chance one way or the other.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
same reason people
don’t want ward or hoffpauier in the outfield…..comparing theriot to daryle ward is a little overboard.
by cubsmania on May 30, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More
Saying he is one of the worst baserunners in the league is pretty ridiculous. He has tried to steal because he was excellent last year. If he keeps getting caught he will simply stop trying to steal, like the MAJORITY of the major leaguers. And then, he will be one of the best baserunners in the league in the group (which is the vast majority) of those who don’t steal bases.
Geez.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Ryan Theriot was a bad baserunner last season beforehe got Dance Fever on the basepaths.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll believe those numbers if
You show me data from different years and they are consistent in their evaluations of players. There are many factors involved here which are not being taken into account.
However, if you show me that Lee and Sosa had consistent negative values in their careers and the other guys had consistent positive values then I would definitely believe more this study. Since baserunning is a very consistent ability I would expect consistent results.
by Luis on May 30, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check the spreadsheet attatched at the bottom.
That’s everyone in baseball from 2000-2007. You can show yourself as much data as you want.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you saying he's a bad baserunner because of the CS?
because that seems to jump the gun if you call him a bad baserunner just because of that. I haven’t even seen him try to steal recently at all. For all we know, Lou could have been telling him to try and steal bases early in the season and they’ve seen that it hasn’t worked. He’s a heads up baserunner and doesn’t make baserunning mistakes like some other cubs do….cedeno being one of them.
by cubsmania on May 30, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also lead the league last season
in outs made on the basepaths, which excludes CS.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read the stuff at the link?
I went through Retrosheet’s play by play data, looking at how often runners were able to take extra bases (or get caught trying) on a multitude of different events, including singles, doubles, ground outs, fly outs, passed balls, wild pitches, and (yeah) stolen base attempts. Every event was given a run value based upon a run expectancy table, which takes into account the number of outs in the inning and what base a player was on. Only plays where the player in question was the lead runner were used to tabulate the figures.
Then, every player was compared to the average player from between 2000 and 2007.
So, yes, this season I’m only basing on caught stealing, since I don’t have play-by-play event data yet for 2008. I’m working on it. But last season? That’s based on well more than his base stealing (which was actually a net plus for him last year, I believe.)
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're preaching to the choir
I would love it if Theriot was benched for Cedeno because of Cedeno’s clear defensive advantage. I was only saying, realistically Lou is going to stick with Theriot and if his OPS can stay north of .750 thats not a horrible thing, but as he does, Theriot better reward the team with better defense.
The Aramis BB/K Watch: 32 walks to 33 strikeouts. Im not sure who the last Cub to have more bb's than k's was, but Im sure it was a very long time ago.
by kylejo on May 30, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Valid arguments for both
Do we know if more AB’s for Cedeno will continue to have his success? I don’t know, but the only way is to get him more AB’s. I personally don’t think that will happen, Lou likes Theriot, his ( overuse word time)” grittyness”. To Theriot credit he does take more pitches this year, and his OPS is alarming good.
This will play out, Theriot as we know struggle late, if that happens Ronny will get the time. I like them both and it is good to have this depth.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 30, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Well put.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I've pointed this out before...
but what happened to Cedeno in ‘05 was Mr. Dusty. He came up and hit well. Then he started to struggle and press and DB did absolutely nothing to help him. Last year, he made some bonehead plays and had poor plate appearances because he was trying too hard. I never got on board with the Cedeno bashing because you could tell by his body language what was going on. Now he looks more relaxed and confident like he did in the beginning of ‘05. I’m glad he’s turned it around. He’ll get his playing time eventually.
Linus: Life is rarely all one way, Charlie Brown. You win some, you lose some. Charlie Brown: Really? Gee, that'd be neat.
by CyberCyclist on May 30, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his most important job is managing the pitching staff.
Are guys being over-worked in dumb situations?
Are we relying on the same 1-2 guys in the bullpen over and over again?
Do we have fetishes for L/R match ups over statistically supported match ups and results?
Then in game strategy:
How is our bench utilized? How is it utilized in close games?
Are the right substitutions made for the game conditions?
How often do we give away outs through bunting?
I haven’t seen enough games to form a solid opinion. My general impression is that Pinella may wear out this bullpen come September, is far too fixated with R/L match up even to the point of hindering the team by carrying too many pitchers (that don’t get used), and his use of the bench in close games has been questionable (that’s the best way that I can put it).
The good side is that I don’t have to listen to too much B.S. excuses from Pinella . He is also not grossly ignorant with respect to offense so the players are giving away outs at their previous “aggressive” rates. I would rate Pinella as okay and a huge improvement over prior Cubs’ skipper.
by DudeVf11 on May 30, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
team chemistry breeds winning
name one single championship team anywhere who would disagree with that
being good athletes who are reasonably healthy, with a command of the basics as well as a certain mastery of their own skillset, flexibility under adversity, and who never give up, ever in tough situations also helps
that is the 2008 Cubs this year .. and they are Real, as Steve Goodman sang
they are clicking big time as of today 7:57 am ET.
Go Cubbies ..we’re on the way and we’re behind ya ..
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
by cubnational on May 30, 2008 6:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this year's lakers team
i mean, Kobe’s improved leadership is the main reason why they have good chemistry this year, but realistically, the winning made it easier for him.
Yeah, they aren’t champions yet, but they’re in the finals.
by tal1286 on May 30, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we gonna vote for Mark's haircut again this year?!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on May 30, 2008 7:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You could, except he already got one.
I think he’s discovering girls.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 30, 2008 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being in the bleachers all summer will surely
enhance that experience….ah, to be young again….
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The current producer of Cubs games is no Arnie Harris
Arnie always had a knack for finding the most attractive and “gifted” women at the stadium. The new person finds a good one every now and again, but not nearly at the rate as Arnie. Arnie made it a real pleasure to watch some of the bad baseball games over the years.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
The Bud Light Fan Cam always produces a gem or two.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Instead
we got a bunch of shots of cold, tired, should be in bed dreaming – kids…. like toddlers and babies.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on May 30, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, you have to get women to watch baseball.
Or you won’t have any to show on the Fan Cam.
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitch in for me to go to more games too!
My personal record this season at Cubs games is 9-1. The only loss I’ve seen was the game in Cincy where the Cubs gave up 7 HRs. I’m waiting to get on the Cub payroll. I think all it will take is to go 20-1. :)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded." -Jim Frey
by lapetino on May 30, 2008 7:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al, and anyone else that was at the game or watched it on tv...
At the risk of starting another mini-controversy – which I am NOT trying to do, btw – I was curious about Soriano’s single in the bottom of the 7th. From listening to the radio, it was a pop fly to short right field, RF and 2B converge and it deflects off of 2B’s glove on a really really tough play. Pat and Ron seemed to think that Soriano should have made it to second on the play, if he’d been running all out from the start. Thus he would have most likely scored on Theriot’s ensuing single, instead of going from first to third. Didn’t really matter, as he ended up scoring anyway, but…
A. Did he just jog out of the box, thinking it was an out? OR
B. Was he clearly favoring his leg again? OR
C. No way he could have made it even if running all out and Pat and Ron were just knee-jerking a reaction based on Soriano’s previous issues with running.
Inquiring minds standing outside the park waiting for balls that never came want to know… Thanks.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 7:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
IMO,
a bit of B and C.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a bit of B & C also.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 30, 2008 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
He jogged down the first base line not hustling because he honestly thought it would be caught based on what I saw on tv…however even if he had run full speed it more than likely would have been and out at 2nd….
All things great in 2008!!
by By Santo's Grace on May 30, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
B and C...
...he would have to have gone full tilt to make to 2nd on that one….and I think he used good judgement not testing it.
Felix Pie must play everyday!
by JB 23 on May 30, 2008 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
It is BS, Cubs win. Never ceases to get the Soriano dig in.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 30, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ballhawk isn't MDBNIU
Why can’t someone ask a Soriano question without them being a “hater”? Has the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798 come back and been extended to Alfonso?
by Shanghai Badger on May 30, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to quote Bartyl and James... "Thanks for yer support"
Yes, I’m old enough to remember wine coolers… [shudder]
I actually did hesitate before posting my original question, figuring somebody would overreact, and I didn’t want to start another virtual verbal volley. But in the end, my curiosity won out and I posted. I respect Pat and Ron a lot so the fact that they would say this on the air (especially Pat) made me think it was a worthwhile question to ask here.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree w/ you on that
Last night listening to the game, I had pondered the same thing. But was so into the game that I didnt think to ask it in the game thread
by Madison Cub Fan on May 30, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it'll cost you one baseball (kidding, kidding)
But yeah, I can’t remember any Cub being so polarizing. It feels like any criticism or question at all about Soriano is tantamount to kicking his dog, hence the John Adams refence (an underrated founding father, IMO, but I digress).
And I’m also old enough to remember Frank and Ed . . . .
by Shanghai Badger on May 30, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fluid intake is important
Al, keep up the good work. Remember, like Z, it is important to stay hydrated.
I want my Macias!
by wombat on May 30, 2008 7:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al,
Good to see the Big Gulps are producing wins for the Cubbies.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 7:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al needs bladder surgery.....
6 inning sized bladder implants are now available at Chicago area hosptials; get yours today!
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on May 30, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds like a post-season surgery.
We can’t afford to put Al on the DL.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hope you discover some mojo there that keeps Wood
from plunking batters in the ninth.
by JFCubFan on May 30, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GaryVarsho--
you think the reports on Richard Dunne are true?
I’d love it, I think he’s great, plus you can never have enough Paddys IMO.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hadn't heard them.
Yeah, we need another Irishman on the squad, just so I can be even more enamored with Spurs!
Where is Dunne right now?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man City.
Just checked. That might be a signal that they don’t trust Ledders to get back healthy….
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watched a lot of the Citizens this year.
He is class. So calm. A coach on the field. Never makes a bad tackle.
Ledley King=Soriano in 2 years.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Ledders.
Once the legs go, it’s all downhill. I’ve only seen Dunne in international comps, but I think you’re right. He’s a footballer’s footballer. Looking at numbers, Spurs are reportedly laying out a lot of dough:
11.5 mil for Capel
12 mil for dos Santos
5-7mil for Dunne.
That’s about 30 mil, which is exactly what ManU was rumored to be offering for Berbs. Hmmmmm…....
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 mil for Dunne is what I heard.
Capel, dos Santos, Dunne > Berba. Sorry, it’s true. When you have as many holes as Spurs do, I like the exchange rate of 3 dimes for a quarter.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, or as bad as the dollar is...
3 dollars for a GBP.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad, but true.
Also, don’t forget Modric.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed,
and, if as you suspect, a change in formation is in the offing, these are exactly the moves that should be made.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could you guys do me a favor?
Take the soccer talk to either an OT FanPost, or to private email? It really doesn’t belong here.
Thanks,
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 30, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m the opposite. Due to health and other circumstances I’ve only been to 5 games so far this season (although they are 4-1). So maybe my absence is helping them!
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 30, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Impressed
With one-third over I’m impressed with our record, how quickly Lou has established a winning attitude on this team and how we function with different parts excelling at different times during games, series and weeks so far. This is so fun being a cubs fan right now, here’s to another 5 months of this (yes, October).
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on May 30, 2008 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al--Overflow threads
Al, Just want to say that I think the 2nd overflow threads are a beautiful thing.
Wondering if you might consider moving the first overflow thread up a little? It seems that, due to people posting before the game, the primary thread gets a little more clogged than others.
One man’s opinion.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's see what happens over the weekend.
If it’s still getting clogged like it has been, I’ll try that starting next week.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 30, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need to be more aggressive. Stop clogging up the threads!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on May 30, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Marquis threw pretty well last night...He got in trouble in the sixth...
this happens every single game, you look up at the score in the 5th in some Marquis start and see that he has only given up 2 maybe only 1 run, however, inevitably he manages to blow any chance of a solid start in the 6th inning. Lou was smart last night and had a relatively short leash, lifting him after he was able to get one out, though I think Lieber should start warming up in the 5th inning of every single start Jason Marquis makes, you simply cannot trust the guy to ever give you six consistent innings.
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on May 30, 2008 8:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That is my concern also
Marquis can not get out of the 6th. When he takes the mound, I don’t count on anything more. I guess that is what a 5th starter does. Love to see and upgrade, however that could be a while.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on May 30, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep it in perspective...
...he’s a 5th starter essentially and those are fairly worthless positions throughout MLB. One might argue that the position itself is a liability because it just blows through your bullpen more. I think he’s performing fine as a 5th starter. If we start getting 7 quality innings out of our 5th starter then we should win 100+ games. Every team has a Marquis in their rotation, part of it is driven by the fixation with having 5 starters when pitching depth in baseball wouldn’t support 4.
by DudeVf11 on May 30, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
however, we don't want to be like "most" teams
and say oh, well he’s just a 5th starter, its ok that you blow up in the 6th every outing. Why not be proactive and say, OK if our 5th starter can only go 5 innings, lets get the bullpen warmed up a little sooner. We know that Lieber can handle a 2 inning outing, why not get Lieber ready to take us into the 7th inning for the starts in which Marquis cant seem to remove his head from his ass once the 6th inning starts?
The Aramis BB/K Watch: 32 walks to 33 strikeouts. Im not sure who the last Cub to have more bb's than k's was, but Im sure it was a very long time ago.
by kylejo on May 30, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather go to a 4 man rotation.
n/t
by DudeVf11 on May 30, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think John Lieber
should start warming up in teh first inning.
IN fact, he should warm up before the first inning.
In fact, let him take Marquis’ starts.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember
Dick Ruthven being exactly the same way. Five solid innings and then trouble.
Linus: Life is rarely all one way, Charlie Brown. You win some, you lose some. Charlie Brown: Really? Gee, that'd be neat.
by CyberCyclist on May 30, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome is no longer lonely at home in Chicago
Dome’s just-married wife, Kazue, and his new baby, Hayato, born in last December, finally move up from Nagoya to Chicago next week – so Dome will be no longer lonely at home in Chicago. This will definitely push up his numbers I hope, as he can concentrate more on baseball…
So hope you Chicago folks welcome Dome’s family as new neighbors over there and help them starting off a new family life in Chicago.
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on May 30, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great news!
Dome looked better at the plate last nigh than he has in a long time.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic
it must have been really difficult for him to be here these last few months without his wife and newborn. I’d be afraid to be an opponent with a more focused and determined Dome at the plate.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Dome gets more focused at the plate,
he may burn a hole in an opposing pitcher one day!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw them still selling
those racist shirts outside Wrigley. I thought they stopped that. I wish people would continue to voice their concerns. Maybe we can stop it.
by Rick B on May 30, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so.
But please don’t make any more FanPosts about this. We’ve had two in the last 24 hours.
The Cubs are aware of the situation and are working hard to stop it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 30, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True - and last post about this from me
the Cubs are apparently getting sued on First Amendment grounds by the person producing the shirts. The Cubs thus far have said they will defend the suit and prevent the sale of the shirts in any way they can.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But does anyone WEAR those stupid things?
by JFCubFan on May 30, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, yes they do.
I’ve seen them.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And...
What about those “Coolie Hats”? I see more and more of those at the game too. Not sure if it’s racist or not, but it sure is the silliest thing I’ve seen, and I doubt that Dome finds it amusing.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on May 30, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awww, that's great
news. I hope they all will be happy in Chicago.
by sue369 on May 30, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Cotts
looked alot better. He made a great pitch to Tavares, in on the hands. Unfortunately he muscled it out to right. It probably goes foul if Lee doesn’t get a glove on it. His fastball was at 93 mph. I hope he can keep it up.
by Rick B on May 30, 2008 8:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am happy for Cotts too
but what did Stevie do to earn the ire of Lou? I just don’t understand why Lou doesn’t use him. It’s not like Stevie is pitching badly.
Anyone have any ideas here?
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure he has the ire of Lou.
I think he looks at Eyre as a LOOGY only. Look for Eyre only in a situational role: 1 batter and gone.
It might have something to do with Eyre’s DL stint. He may appreciate having Eyre every day for one batter over every other/third day for one inning. Who’s reliable and left-handed that we could bring up for the ‘pen? No one, not with Marshall and Hill being canonized as starters.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right.
Lou views Eyre almost exclusively as a LOOGY.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Lou
treat Eyre like this last year? But then as the season went on he was used more regularly?
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on May 30, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recollect exactly,
but it wouldn’t surprise me.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eyre
was pretty bad early on last year which lead to Lou using him very sparingly at the outset of the season. As Eyre got better towards the end, Lou started using him more often and in more important situations.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al - or anyone going today...
Can someone please post any game cancellation updates as soon as you hear?
Thanks!
by The E-Man on May 30, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It looks like its going to be real nasty this afternoon
Felix Pie must play everyday!
by JB 23 on May 30, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't decide if I should go to the game or not?
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on May 30, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me either....luckily
..I live one mile north so I can make a game time decsion.
Its really nice out now, maybe it will pass
Felix Pie must play everyday!
by JB 23 on May 30, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm about the same as you...
But, those long rain delayed games suck…
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on May 30, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The radar certainly doesn't look promising
http://weather.wgntv.com/radar/mixedcomposite.asp?region=a4
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in. Colorado is in town all weekend.
They can wait all afternoon.
by Rick B on May 30, 2008 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
don’t know what happened there. Anyway, they’ll get it in.
by Rick B on May 30, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Guess that's why baseball
is the most unique of our popular sports:
NO Clock!
by The E-Man on May 30, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good News this morning
Lou is having strong second thoughts about trying the Hoffpauir in right field experiment.
He has admitted what we have all been saying for some time, Dome’s defense in right is far too valuable to this team. Now if only Cedeno’s defense at short and Pie’s defense in center would have the same affect.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 9:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I read that
and was greatly relieved.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You sound like Al in the 7th inning.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get it --how do you spell relieved?
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on May 30, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
R-O-L-A-I-D-S
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great win last night
Great homestand thus far; 4 down and 4 wins. Let’s see them get another today and take the weekend from there.
Now…to be a fly in the ointment. They MUST continue this type of play on the ROAD.
by blackhawk24 on May 30, 2008 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What is amazing
is that the Cardinals are right there. With Kyle Lohse and Wellemeyer!!
I’ve said this many times, but as much as I hate to say it, their organization is incredible.
by The E-Man on May 30, 2008 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Rockies have apparently tenatively announced...
...that tomorrow’s starter will be Glendon Rusch.
And I actually get to be at the game!
by cwyers on May 30, 2008 9:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OH YES!!!! I'll be there too!
Sweet deal!
Batting practice baby!
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on May 30, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And people love to beat up on Marquis
Yes, he’s a marginal pitcher but I’d still rather have him than retreads like Rusch who has now started for two teams so far this year.
by rlpete on May 30, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's supposed to be nice and warm, too.
Could be a rough day for Glendon.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glendon could end up throwing a tough game at us....
We often joke about grity and scrappy, but I recall some games Rusch pitched in blue pinstripes and he was exactly that….if he gets some extra adrenaline form coming up against his old mates….?
But on the other hand—maybe he’ll throw cookies to the plate for a couple innings and ballhawk can get his exercise in.
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on May 30, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. We should get too happy and
“Estes-ize” Glendon. It’d be pretty embarrassing for him to toss a three hitter!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*shouldn't.
gah.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I didn't reply sooner... I was cleaning the drool off of my keyboard.
And hunting for my track shoes. And a bigger bag to take to the game for all the balls… ;-)
Yep, loves to see me some Glendon on the mound. Brings back memories of Eric Milton and going back farther, John Smiley. But for as many meatballs he could serve up to the plate, cubfever7 has a point – it’s entirely possible he digs down deep and comes up with a great performance.
If not on the mound – then maybe at the plate. Glendon put a charge into one a few years ago and deposited it onto Sheffield where I corralled it after a few fortuitous bounces.
Stop laughing – I didn’t go over to Sheffield because Rusch was batting. I went over because Corey was up next. Ok, now you can laugh…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice!....I assume you will be wearing your Theriot jersey? ;)
Felix Pie must play everyday!
by JB 23 on May 30, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get the Jose Ascanio for Neal Cotts move
Ascanio impressed me. Good live arm that can come in and pitch effectively for several days. We replace him with Cotts? Eyre is already a forgotten man in the bullpen (for probable good reason) and now we add the dubious Cotts to the mix all in the name of having two lefties?
I don’t get it.
"It is never too early to start beefing up your obituary."
by MDBNIU on May 30, 2008 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
but I thought
you played college ball.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought so too
that means you should know the answer to this question
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weather.
Do we skip Theodore tonight and roll Jon Lieber out?
Might not be a bad idea to bump the rotation back a day—especially since Z went 130 last start.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn't mean "skip"
Meant move back.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on May 30, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting ready to leave from the north 'burbs...
Keeping my fingers crossed!!! Maybe I should bring some Diamond Dry with me….
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on May 30, 2008 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
70% chance of rain.....
had it started to rain yet?
by Madison Cub Fan on May 30, 2008 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just heard some thunder....
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on May 30, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Field conditions update
Ballhawk reporting virtually live here at Wrigley Field. Check out the cubcam to see the latest on the field conditions. Right now the tarp is out in left field and a bunch of workers are standing alongside, holding it as if ready to start pulling it onto the field.
Update to the update – just checked it again before posting and now the workers have scattered a bit, but still appear to be at the ready. Back to you in the studio!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tarp is now on the field...
...and thunder is in the air!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't see
your facebook link. I posted the Cubworld cam link below. Be careful out there today.
Linus: Life is rarely all one way, Charlie Brown. You win some, you lose some. Charlie Brown: Really? Gee, that'd be neat.
by CyberCyclist on May 30, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep - gonna leave the steel cleats, aluminum bat, and my favorite kite & skeleton key at home today...
I wouldn’t mind seeing me some baseball sized hail though. I’d look up, see all those ‘baseballs’ coming down and think that I’d died and gone to ballhawk heaven…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you'll know you're in trouble if
the hail starts coming down with the signature of the league president on it,
Linus: Life is rarely all one way, Charlie Brown. You win some, you lose some. Charlie Brown: Really? Gee, that'd be neat.
by CyberCyclist on May 30, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaron Cook
WOW – this guy pitches on Colorado, they’re 14 games under .500 (and in last place) and he’s 7-3 with a 2.82 ERA? Yikes, Batman…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 30, 2008 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
he really pitched well against us the last time.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 30, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As well as in his career.
In four GS vs. the Cubs, he boasts a 2.32 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, and a .256 BAA. However, this will be his first career start at Wrigley. He’s an extreme groundball pitcher (146/63 GB/FB), so it’ll be interesting to see the Cubs’ approach against him.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weather at Wrigley
Linus: Life is rarely all one way, Charlie Brown. You win some, you lose some. Charlie Brown: Really? Gee, that'd be neat.
by CyberCyclist on May 30, 2008 10:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Radar looks like storms for the next two hours or so
on the weather channel page
really, Madison, that’s what the link is . . .
by Shanghai Badger on May 30, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weather.com
Damn. Doesn’t look good for a game today. Chicago:
Windy with thunderstorms – possibly strong. Damaging winds, large hail, and possibly a tornado with some storms. High 77F. Winds SW at 20 to 30 mph. Chance of rain 70%
AUNTIE EM!! AUNTIE EM!!! IT’S A TWISTER! IT’S A TWISTER!!!
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 30, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It has taken me like a week to figure out what your avatar is:
Greatest American Superhero!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dat's it!
“Belive it Or Not…”
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 30, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
theme song from George Costanza's answering machine...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 30, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!
The Summer of George!
Possibly the greatest run of Seinfeld episodes ever.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent!!!
Believe it or Not, George isn’t at home.
"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly
by McRipper on May 30, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great game last night.
Very fun time in the game threads last night.
Stormed all night here last night. I just hope they get the game in today.
by sue369 on May 30, 2008 11:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Last night..
Really the last few have been some of the most enjoyable game threads since I’ve been here….Guess the trolls only come out when the Cubs have a bad couple of games or so.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on May 30, 2008 11:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey, if a game started by Marquis can't even bring the trolls out...
...life is good. :)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 30, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
that was a lot of fun. I had to cut out a bit early, but it was fun while it lasted!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 30, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that's really it
when we’re winning, the haters go elsewhere. Even when Blue Mike posted early in the game thread, he disappeared when the game started, and even when they were down 4-3, he didn’t come back.
It’s because we KNOW we’re going to win. And so does the team.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on May 30, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"It’s because we KNOW we’re going to win. And so does the team."
God do I love to read stuff like that, and I AGREE!!!
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 30, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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