Trust Lou
Okay, I admit that I have a possibly unhealthy, slightly sadistic fascination with Dusty Baker's current tenure in Cincinnati. After suffering through four seasons with him here, I'm still completely amazed that
1)He still somehow got another managerial job
2)That he got another job and is following exactly the same stubborn, clueless patterns that marked his days in Chicago.
So the next time you're feeling stressed or pessimistic about how things might be going with the Cubs, take a look at some of the Dusty posts on Redleg nation. Reds fans already seem to be collectively pulling out their hair over things like his stubborn insistence in batting Corey Patterson (he of the .268 OBP) lead-off, his lack of faith in rookies and a general funk that's fallen over the clubhouse-does any of this sound familiar? And he's only been there a few weeks really. I mean, it took most of us at least a year or more to get to the same cliff.
I don't always agree with Lou (why he used Marmol yesterday is still beyond me and, I hope, won't come back to haunt us tonight) but, at the same time, I have faith that he's a smart, savvy baseball guy who will get us over the rough patches even if it means sacrificing his popularity in the clubhouse. I once read about how Lou cut a veteran reliever (I think it was Mike Schooler) during his first year in Seattle. Schooler angrily told a reporter that "All Lou Pinella cares about is winning".
It's about time we had somebody like that on the top step.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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27 comments
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You're right about Mike Schooler.
Lou had him released during spring training of 1993, his first year there. Schooler pitched one year with the Rangers and was done after that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 4, 2008 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that quote is hilarious!
honestly, what more is there? obviously you need to care for the players and help them be as successful as possible, but isn’t that a part of winning baseball? win and everybody (who cares about the team more than themselves) is happy :)
"I'll play any day. I don't care if I'm 0-for-30, playing baseball is my PASSION. I'll go out and play." - Geo Soto
by CubbyBlues on May 4, 2008 9:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
It’s especially funny that Schooler didn’t get that. Winning takes care of everything else.
by bluekoolaide on May 4, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent points.
I am beginning to calm down now with respect to Lou’s managing…I posted many times here when Dusty was manager that without Roidzilla, Dusty was a one season wonder with SFG. He was a lousy manager before he came to the Cubs and he’s still a lousy manager. I underestimated his connections and his ability to sell himself for a new job, but I think Leyland doing so well with Detroit and having Morgan in his corner really helped him. I am glad that he got another opportunity to prove his poor managing to all…Don’t worry reds fan, by September 1, Dusty will have decided that he’s given Corey a long enough look at leadoff, say hello to Juan Pierre, LOL!
by DudeVf11 on May 4, 2008 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
your wrong in your post....
how did you suffer in the 4 years dusty was here? he took us the closest we’ve been to a world series in years like it or not. he went into his next years with argueably the best 1-2 starting combo on paper in baseball. they both stayed on the DL for years to come. d. lee broke his wrist,cpat tore his hammy,aram was hurt etc etc etc. dusty isnt to blame for all of the losing. cant we get on with the whole dusty baker bashing. he’s long gone and we got a manager that might be in the top 3 in all of baseball.
Go Cubbies Go!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on May 4, 2008 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
cubslover22...
The Cubs might’ve done generally pretty good in those 4 years with Dusty but they could’ve been much better.
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 4, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
like i said
he’s been gone for 2 years and almost on a daily basis we have post on him. i didnt like him either but managers are not judged on anything but wins/losses. we had losses much like every other manager in my 26 year life. we have a great manager now for the 2nd year in a row. but if he dont net us a ring then he just goes on the long list of failures.
Go Cubbies Go!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on May 5, 2008 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did we suffer under Dusty due to his mismanagement?
Let’s see:
Macías
Neifi
Keping Prior on the mound after the collision with Giles and possibly injuring him forever.
Letting the team lose control after the Bartman incident.
Lousy and constant double switches.
Consistently being outmanaged by whoever was in the other dugout.
I’m sure I’m missing something else but others can help me out here.
by Fraggin Judge on May 4, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that about sums it up.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 4, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One or two more
There obviously Patterson, but something that is less mentioned but it probably was as critical as anything else: not using the starters as relievers in the final games of the NLCS. Florida did it and to great success. I guess this falls into the outmanaged category. To be honest, I haven’t seen 1 thing about managing that I thought Dusty was very good at.
by Luis on May 4, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about
leaving Prior in to throw 116 pitches in Game two with an enormous lead. If memory serves Prior came out to start the 8th. He should have been gone after 6 at the most, preserving an already tired arm for later games, like maybe game 6, when he ran out of gas in the 8th inning.
Soriano should hit 5th. Period.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on May 4, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he did get us close
but he also couldn’t seal the deal and, by the end of ‘04, the Cubs-who were heavily favored to get to the World Series, had COMPLETELY self destructed.
What I disliked most about Dusty though wasn’t his mismanaging, stubborness, coddling of players, etc., -it was the way he made the Cubs a truly unlikeable team. I mean, can you just imagine what Pinella would say if one of his players called the press box to complain about the way they were being too complimentary of the other team?
by bluekoolaide on May 4, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
by his last season
Dusty was just going through the motions. I give him credit for 03, but when he sat on his ass in the dugout after the B—man foul ball, instead of going out to talk to an obviously flustered Prior, things began to go out of control.
With Lou, for the first time in many years, I’m confident our guy is smarter (in a baseball sense) than the guy in the other dugout.
by Clark Addison on May 4, 2008 9:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Dusty got outmanaged on numerous occasions. I can’t think of too many times when this has happened to Lou, and often HE is the guy doing the outmanaging.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 4, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Call
I don’t hate dusty nor do I wish him any ill will but, when he was here he didn’t do a lot of the managing fundamentals and continued to ignore them. The worst was when I saw in person on July 16 in the game against the mets hit two grand slams in one inning. Not once did dusty come out to the mound and try to calm down Sean Marshall, and he waited for them to score 11 runs before he got replaced! Lou yanked Rich Hill after he just walked in a run, thats just one example.
"We Are Not Fair Weather But Foul Weather Fans, Brothers In Arms In Streets and The Stands." -Eddie Vedder, Someday We'll Go All The Way
by ryanbrixenivy on May 4, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No NONSENSE Lou
One thing Lou understands is the intangible psychology of baseball. Brewers are now caught between a rock and hard place….their pitching is not going to hold up unless they trade an important offensive cog in their machine. Gallardo is out, possibly until mid next season knowing ACL recoveries. Sheets is a brittle as Woody and we know Woody’s story. Worse their bullpen is weak so by putting distance between Milwaukee and the Cubs now is important. OTOH the Cardinals are a good team and will get stronger so getting a jump or at least holding onto them now is important.
Lou also knows that 85 wins is not going to do it this year.
Sending Hill down was a huge signal to the team. Hill will go down to AAA and work on two things; mechanically he is a mess, pitching up hill {ironically), not following through and also mentally pitching to avoid the bats.
I can see Lou giving Lieber his earned opportunity where if John still has gas in the tank can take us to July 1st or so.
The other thing is riding Theriot with Cedeno’s finally found bat trying to get into the lineup. For fantasy heads the insertion of the 5’7” toy cannon the ‘Full Fonty’ allowing DeRosa to be the floating starter. Cubs really don’t have to fear a small injury because of DeRosa, where with DeRosa, Lou can rest and motivate even long term contracted power players.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on May 4, 2008 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sending Hill down
Could be an equivalent to Lou’s tirade with the umpires last year. “Sparking the team”.
Hill was known as being one of “Lou’s Boys” among the likes of Theriot, Howry, etc. This was more than an average message. This was Lou saying if you can’t cut it, I will do something. I have a strong feeling Soriano was told that privately as well.
by ak123 on May 4, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 4, 2008 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Lou
One other thing… Lou is all for protecting “his” players, but if they really screw something up, he let’s them have it. Lou reminds me of a good parent. If the kid does something right, he lets them know it. If they do something wrong, he lets them know it. With Dusty, whom I do not hate, it always seemed like, if you do something right, he lets them know it, if they do something wrong, ignore it and hope it goes away. Honestly, there were several times during the last year of “Dusty in Chicago,” that I could hear the theme of the Andy Griffith show when Dusty walked back and forth from the pitchers mound, or after a game.
No offense, but I think players… especially players today, need a verbally kick in the pants every now and then. Nobody likes to hear something negative thrown their way, but athletes today are somewhat spoiled by their large contracts, and sometimes, they need somebody to light a fire up under them. I think Lou does that. Sure, some players don’t like Lous fire, but they are the players whose drifted over into the darkside of wussy-ville…. and we don’t need ‘em here in Chicago.
by TheHawkRules on May 4, 2008 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Battle of Styles: Lou vs Dusty
Ha… Here is Lou’s style (think of a cross between Mickey and Apollo from the Rocky movies)
“Come on Cedeno! When I’m done with ya, you’re going to eat lightin’ and crap thunder!” (spoken this last off-season)
“D-Lee… I know your wrist was broke, I know it hurt and messed you up all inside… But it’s time to get back that eye of the tiger man! That edge! The way you get it back, is to go back to the beginning! You know what I mean?!” (After last season’s playoff loss)
“Who cares what people say about your size, Fontenot… Theriot… Einstien flunked out of school, twice. Beethoven was deaf. Helen Keller was blind… so I think you guys have a good shot at makin’ the team!” (Spring training)
Dusty-style:
Patterson finished the game going 0-5 with five strikeouts. He left 13 runners on base. Dusty walked up to Corey, and sat down beside him on the bence. Neither look at each other, instead choosing to watch the grounds crew clean up the field.
Dusty, wishing he had a milkshake to give, instead gave Patterson a calm voice… “Corey… do you want to talk about it?”
CP: ”....” (sobs) ”...no…” (sniff sniff)
Dusty nods. “Ok… just remember, I’m protecting you. If you ever want to talk, let me know.”
CP: “Ok skip.”
Dusty gives Corey a quick hug, then ups and walks away. The Kansas song Dust in the Wind plays loudly in the stadium as Corey watches his nice skip walk off…
by TheHawkRules on May 4, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to go on record saying
that as a sportsfan and obnoxious armchair manager, I reserve the right to disagree with even the perfect manager. It’s part of the fun.
by DGU on May 4, 2008 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen.
Especially since there’s no such thing as a perfect manager. I’m sure that even if we watched guys like LaRussa and Leyland on a daily basis we’d find things to question and disagree with.
by bluekoolaide on May 4, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After listening to Lou saying stupid things tonight on ESPN...
like comparing Soriano to Bobby Bonds to justify keeping the guy in an ineffective spot in the lineup, I have concluded that Lou is more obstinate than the famous goat. Oops!
by Fraggin Judge on May 4, 2008 11:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou on Leadoff
After Lou’s comments I looked up Bobby Bonds’ career OBP and it was .353, which is decent for a leadoff guy. Then I checked Alfonso Soriano’s lifetime OBP and it’s .325 – NOT decent for leadoff!
Now I want to correct what I said yesterday about Mickey Rivers being a better leadoff hitter because the numbers show that he wasn’t. Rivers’ lifetime OBP was .327 so he was just as (in)effective as Soriano is. I WAS WRONG. Probably the reason Bonds was dealt to the Angels after one year with the Yankees was because 1) they were able to get a pitcher in the deal and 2) Billy Martin no doubt saw something that wasn’t there and perceived Bonds to be weak-willed.
Back to Soriano – the only season in which he posted an OBP of at least .350 or better was his contract year in 2006. Other than that he’s been below .350. Is it reasonable to expect him to magically become an .350+ leadoff hitter? Especially in a day and age where teams can’t get away with poor leadoff OBP like they could in the old days (before Moneyball exposed the importance of table setting)?
Seems to me that Lou is stubbornly living in the past the way Dusty used to when it comes to having speed at the top of the lineup. Speed for speed’s sake is useless unless the guy can get on base better than 35 percent of the time. It smacks of “clogging the bases” – one of most inane and outright stupid comments a manager has ever uttered. And besides, Soriano’s speed has been compromised after a couple years of leg injuries.
Oh, and the Yankees’ record in 1975? 83-77, twelve games behind league champion Boston.
by SecondSon on May 5, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dusty??
Do you have a In “Dusty We Trust”t-shirt..lol
Grant Earnhart
by ernie87 on May 5, 2008 5:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs






















