You (Almost) Complete Me
by Al on May 6, 2008 8:51 PM CDT
in Recaps
102 comments
Through yesterday's games, only five complete games had been pitched in the National League in 2008 -- the CG may, at some point, become a thing of the past. (In 2007, three teams -- Washington, Texas, and Florida -- had zero CG, the first time any team had gone through a whole season without one.)
You know that Carlos Zambrano wanted to finish tonight's 3-0 Cub shutout of the Reds -- their second shutout of the year -- but it was left to Kerry Wood, who registered his fifth save of the year, and in easier fashion than many of his previous outings, including a real nasty slider to strike out Edwin Encarnacion for the second out of the 9th. And so, ten years to the day after Kid K's 20-K game, Kerry strikes out two of three in the 9th inning to get a save. Who'da thunk it?
I was out for a while tonight and while listening to the game on WGN radio, Pat and Ron (well, mostly Pat, since Ron had a cold and could barely talk) were commenting that Z didn't have very good velocity, had "hardly thrown a good fastball yet", Pat said in the third inning.
No matter. Z threw 113 pitches, 69 for strikes, and allowed only three harmless singles and three walks, and was never in serious trouble in this fairly swift game that ran only two hours and thirty minutes. In so doing he became the first Cub pitcher this season to go eight innings.
Meanwhile, ONEDEC, who finally managed to get off the bench and into the starting lineup (I'd give BCB credit, since we've been lobbying for this for several days now, but that would be pretty presumptuous. Let's just say Lou made the right call, and gave Mark DeRosa a day off to clear his head), drove in two runs with a single and played good defense. I think we'd all like to see him get more consistent playing time, and the same for Felix Pie, who had a single in four AB, his average creeping up to .232.
If I were making the lineup decision, I'd start ONEDEC again tomorrow, and give DeRo another day off, which would let him rest till Friday. Or, maybe tomorrow would be a good day to give Kosuke Fukudome a day off, since he went 0-for-3 today (and didn't look real good doing it), and let DeRo play RF.
While the Cubs haven't quite righted the ship yet (they're still only 4-8 since hitting the high-water mark for the year at 15-6), it is significant to note that they haven't lost more than two in a row yet this year, and this despite having less than consistent starting pitching. What this tells us, I think, is that they've been able to use multiple weapons to win games. Sometimes they do get good starting pitching. Other times the bullpen holds the opposition down till the offense gets going. Still other times, the offense bludgeons the other side. And sometimes they just get lucky.
All of those things are elements of building a championship team. The Cubs, clearly, are not yet there, and they probably need to change or add some parts, depending on how certain players perform over the next couple of months. But at 19-14, win tomorrow afternoon and they'll have a .500 road trip (yet another mantra of winning: win 2/3 of your games at home, play .500 on the road, and you'll win your division easily), and come home Friday to what shapes up as a terrific matchup with the hottest team in baseball, the Diamondbacks.
Last night BCB reader Unique challenged me to write a recap in the evening if the Cubs came back to win. They didn't, so I didn't. But with the quick win tonight, and a day game tomorrow, I figured I'd take care of this one while it was still fresh. Nicely done, men in blue. See you all tomorrow.
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saw it on FSN ohio
i loved watching the reds announcers get silenced throughout the broadcast. great game for us.
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 6, 2008 8:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Aww man,
You had to watch FSN ohio on a night that Zambrano pitched? They used to drive me nuts with the country way they would pronounce Zambrano…. ZAM BRAN OH. Dude, he’s not a muffin.
I Believe!!!!
by Sarah Hope on May 6, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball"
by Bump Bailey on May 6, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1DEC
I must say that 1DEC played very good defense today.
Also, great to see ARAM swing the bat again…
Big game tomorrow!
by BartlettBob on May 6, 2008 8:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, very good except
for his error on the wide throw to 2B.
But – he’s getting better, at least it appears so.
by The E-Man on May 6, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, saw it on the ticket as well.
Watched the whole thing and it was a dominant performance by Big Z.
I am with you, give Fukedome the day off and start DeRo in right.
But, it was a fine evening of baseball! The way it was meant to be played.
by jajonez77 on May 6, 2008 9:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
quiet competence.
more games like this, and we make it to the post.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 6, 2008 9:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It was a nice...
and much needed win tonight people…good to see Woody get the save ten years to the day of his 20 K game. Z is pitching like the ace he is and I’ll have to admit that I have been in such a funk since Woody’s blown save against the Brewers.
Hopefully, we can turn the corner and do our thing. Still not worried about the Cards since the season is a long LONG marathon and they will show their true colors and come crashing down. Go Cubs!!!
You ARE freaking out MAN!
by crw89 on May 6, 2008 9:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
St louis winning again, dont know how
Outside of Pujols that lineup is trash
by CubsBall2202 on May 6, 2008 9:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm starting to think that St. Louis may be better than anyone gives them credit for...
I’m hoping they start to fall soon.
by GoCubbies34 on May 6, 2008 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that
but then I look at their lineup and that pitching staff and the quality of teams they have played and there is no way that lineup can keep up
by CubsBall2202 on May 6, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
'08 Cardinals
I say we all pledge to STOP watching the Cardinals for 57 Days. That is how long (51 games) it will be until we see them.
by BartlettBob on May 6, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hate to admit this
cuz i think larussa is a pathetic man and just, ya know, its THE CARDINALS – but that is the best BEST coaching staff in the league.
we look at the lineup and see skip shumaker, brendan ryan, ankiel at clean-up, etc and think “these guys are jokes!” we see looper, lohse, wellemeyer, wainwright and think about what these guys have done as young pitchers and as crap relief guys for other teams and say “they have HORRIBLE pitching!”
but the reality might, just might be that they get the very best out of every player, use smart ball perfectly balanced with unconventional thinking and therefore MAKE these guys damn good players. sux.
"I'll play any day. I don't care if I'm 0-for-30, playing baseball is my PASSION. I'll go out and play." - Geo Soto
by CubbyBlues on May 6, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to agree
but I do. They play good defense, get clutch hitting, and just enough starting pitching. Right now, at least, they’re winning their share of 1 run games. We’ll see if that can continue.
Soriano should hit 5th. Period.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on May 6, 2008 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel
Any team with Rick Ankiel is going to win 127 games and the World Series.
Linus: Life is rarely all one way, Charlie Brown. You win some, you lose some. Charlie Brown: Really? Gee, that'd be neat.
by CyberCyclist on May 7, 2008 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see
the two throws he made from center to third last night. Man does he ever have an arm on him. He got Willy Tavares (who is one of the faster runners in the NL) out trying to tag and advance to third on a deep fly out to center. It was unreal, perfect throw.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 7, 2008 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guys might wanna turn on wciu
Gavin Floyd pitching VERY well through 8, just a heads up
by CubsBall2202 on May 6, 2008 9:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
no hitter
3 outs left
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...
by LPLancer23 on May 6, 2008 9:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, this worked very very well.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 3:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that's what a Sox fan would say
about a Cubs pitcher going into the 9th with a no-no; not the other way around.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2008 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ill argue Z pitched better
1/3 less and two hits more but fewer runs, unearned or not
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 7, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty hard to argue w/ a one hitter though.
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry
by Jayo525 on May 7, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good game
tonight. Onedec played a good game and I hope he’s back in the lineup tomorrow afternoon. I agree that Dome could use a day off.
by sue369 on May 6, 2008 9:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that was quick
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
by Chanman25 on May 6, 2008 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That was a filthy pitch.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 6, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 more to go
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
by Chanman25 on May 6, 2008 9:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2 more to go
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
by Chanman25 on May 6, 2008 9:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And Mauer breaks up the no-no.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 6, 2008 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
aww shit
broken up…oh well a great performance…
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
by Chanman25 on May 6, 2008 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know.
That’s really too bad. Floyd is a one-time hot prospect who’s really struggled at this level. It would’ve been nice to see him pull this off.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 6, 2008 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
still pitched a helluva game, though.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 6, 2008 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the curse of ESPN strikes again!
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
by Chanman25 on May 6, 2008 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Smart move by Ozzie here.
Floyd’s probably gassed.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 6, 2008 9:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
He didn’t look gassed to me. Not sure why Ozzie was so quick with the hook. Let the guy finish his game!
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on May 6, 2008 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Theriot's Worst Facial Hair In Town title
has just been taken by Bobby Jenks. WTF is that thing on his chin?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 6, 2008 9:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Regarding Pie....
People are way to hard on him. The kid just turned 23. He has the pressure of playing in Chicago on him and being touted as such a high prospect. It is his first real season as well.
We’ve seen multiple times this season how much of an asset he can be out in the field with his defense, and heck, he is batting better then Soriano!
He needs to be played every day, at least vs. every RHP. Let him get in some kind of groove, and if he doesn’t, let him play in AAA.
by GoCubbies34 on May 6, 2008 9:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nicely done, men in blue.
I agree, the umpires did a much better job.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on May 6, 2008 9:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Z
I wanted to see him finish, but I can see why Lou brought in Wood. Way too long since he’s gotten a save, and he needed this one to remind himself he can do it after being way too unreliable the first month. Let’s hope this is the start of a bunch in a row for Wood.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on May 6, 2008 9:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good to see
the W, stinks i had to be at school all night.
Excited to see Lieber start tommorow, lets get them Cubbies we need to win a series!
.500 on the road!
My 08 Cubs record 4-0
My 08 W.Sox record 0-2 (I havent seen a sox win in 3 years)
Updated April 26th
by Rudey on May 6, 2008 10:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
One thing you can expect Wednesday afternoon...
... with Lieber going, the game should be quick.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 3:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT:
snorg T girl is hott:
http://content.yieldmanager.edgesuite.net/atoms/73/c6/73c6289663b8ca84e4338ed9321553aa.jpg
"I'll play any day. I don't care if I'm 0-for-30, playing baseball is my PASSION. I'll go out and play." - Geo Soto
by CubbyBlues on May 6, 2008 10:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What was the point of this post?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 3:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
complete games
Al always acts like the disappearance of the CG is no big deal, and I always respond, “Well, I hope you don’t miss no-hitters too much.” Because if we don’t have complete games, we don’t have no-hitters. Can’t have one without the other. Already, there has been a major drop in the number of no-hitters that’s coincided pretty neatly with the near disappearance of CGs in the last decade. What a shame if we were to lose such an exciting part of baseball as the no-hitter at the altar of pitch count worship.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on May 6, 2008 10:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
but
how many guys have you seen pulled from a game when they’re pitching a no hitter?
by cubsmania on May 6, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is
If you’ve never learned how to pitch 9 innings, it’s exceedingly unlikely you’ll be able to pitch a no-hitter in the first place.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on May 6, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily.
If you’re throwing a no-hitter, you’re likely not going to have a high pitch count. Gavin Floyd was pulled after 105 pitches, not that many for 8+ innings. If he had gotten Mauer out, there’s no way he was coming out of the game.
We’ll still see no-hitters—just not that many CG’s.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kudos?
Unfortunately, I was out and didn’t see Floyd pitch that gem last night. But from what I’ve heard many thought Gavin looked gassed and they agreed with Guillen’s decision to pull him after Gavin’s 2nd late inning bid for a no hitter. Guillen, if he’s known for anything with pitchers, it’s for letting them go long. So, Guillen must have felt that Gavin was gassed.
Many people (especially here) mocked Kenny Williams for trading for Gavin Floyd and there was a chorus here of “Floyd sucks” when he was put into the rotation this season.
Compared to (qualified) pitchers in MLB, Gavin is…
- #1 in BAA
- #4 in WHIP
- #13 in ERA
It’s a long season and Floyd could certainly still turn out to be a flop, but the results so far are very promising and far removed from “sucking.”
Kudos to Kenny!
by DrCrawdad on May 7, 2008 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Floyd looked spent, and he even said as much afterwards.
It was a good decision by Ozzie to pull him after the first hit and let Jenks clean it up. Floyd’s had a good year thus far and I’m happy to see him performing well after the (overly high) expectations placed on him early in his career.
Two things:
1.) Bobby Jenks must shave that abomination on his chin before Ryan Theriot faints from sheer lealousy
2.) I remain cautious about Floyd, much as I am about Ryan Dempster. Both pitchers have unsustainable, sub.200 BABIP , both have K/BB rates that warn of trouble ahead (Floyd’s is almost exactly 1:1 at 19 K/18 BB, while Dempster is only slightly better at 29 K/20 BB), and neither carry a major league track record that supports the level of success they currently enjoy. However, I’d expect them both to end up with an ERA in the low to mid fours, and that’s probably going to be okay, especially in Floyd’s case, because he basically replaces John Garland and will probably be at, or slightly better than, the line that Garland would’ve given the Sox. So, yes, in this case, kudo’s to Kenny.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've heard of combined no-hitters, correct?
As you can see here, there have been nine in MLB history, most noteably:
1.) the first one, tossed by Babe Ruth (when Barry Bonds adds a no-hitter to his resume, I’ll grant he’s the best ballplayer ever) and Ernie Shore
2.) One by Blue Moon Odom and Francisco Barrios for the White Sox where Odom walked 9 batters.
3.) One by All TIme Swell Guy Kent Mercker, along with Mark Wohlers and Alejandro Pena.
4.) and the most recent, and the one which required the most pitchers ever to complete, by the Houston Astros’ Roy “Micheal Barrett Hates Me” Oswalt, Pete Munro, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Lidge, Billy Wagner, and Octavio Dotel
So, the SP doesn’t necessarily have to toss a CG in order for fans to witness a no-hitter. You can, indeed have on without the other.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe no one's flamed me on the Babe Ruth one yet...
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that one's always been controversial.
If you don’t know the story, on June 23, 1917, Ruth, then a Red Sox pitcher, walked the first hitter of the game. He then got into an argument with the umpires and got ejected.
Shore came in to relieve Ruth and got the runner stealing, and then retired the next 26 batters in a row… for a combined no-hitter. Some say Shore, who retired 27 men in one game without allowing a baserunner himself, should get credit for a perfect game, but since there was a walk, it really can’t be one.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
I thought someone would get me on that one right away. It’s a pretty funny story, nevertheless.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Are you being honest with yourself? Tell me something – does it really impress you as much to see four pitchers combine for a no-hitter as to see one guy go all the way? If a guy pitches a no-hit inning of relief as part of a combined no-hitter, is that really all that special? I don’t think so. Maybe others disagree, but I think the majority of fans would agree with me that there’s something watered-down about a combined no-hitter.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on May 7, 2008 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there's anything watered down about it at all,
beside the fact that you’re changing the parameters of the argument. You made the statement that there could be no more no-hitters without complete games. That claim is patently false, as I have shown. Your aesthetic opinions about the nature of 1 pitcher no-hitters vs. multiple pitcher no-hitters is an entirely separate question.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 8, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DLee could use a day off.
Start DWard tomorrow, DLee gets two consecutive days off. Hit a deep fly to right in the first inning, but he really seems to be dragging at the plate.
Soriano should hit 5th. Period.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on May 6, 2008 10:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad idea.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 3:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not always right
but it is getting a little packed here on the Cedeno bandwagon as all you late comers jump on.
by rlpete on May 6, 2008 10:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The defense still has some issues...
IMO, Lou is at least partly to blame for this. He treats DeRo like his own personal yo-yo, moving him in and out, up and down. It’s like he wants to show off his toy instead of trying to put DeRo into the best possible position to succeed. This has caused two significant problems:
1. DeRo is obviously tired, and is having trouble playing 10 games in a row. In part, this is due to all of the extra time he spends on defense during BP. It’s also a great waste of mental energy.
2. The MIs are committing a lot of errors. I believe this is due to the way that Lou is playing musical chairs at 2B. Because of the way Riot races across the bag to turn for his pivot, he’s a hard enough target to hit for an everyday partner. It’s impossible for a once a week partner. It’s cost us 2 errors in the last 2 games.
My solution? Play DeRo at 2B exclusively (except in emergency). Is he a better 3B than Cedeno? Probably, but not by enough to justify constantly juggling the MIs. Play Cedeno at 2B, SS, and 3B only. Let Reed Johnson be the 4th OF. That way, Cedeno needs to learn to team with DeRo at SS or 3B, and Riot at 2B. That is plenty for him. As Riot cools off, he needs to start more at SS. That would also make him available to PR for Ramy or get him out of a blowout.
Fontenot has done a good job as a PH. Leave him there, where his defense can’t hurt anything. He and Ward give the Cubs a good LHB bench. Use Marquis to PR for Ward rather than wasting a position player. (Especially important if they go to 13 Ps.) Use Cedeno, Johnson, and Blanco from the right side. Marquis can run for Blanco as well.
All in all, a good win—but largely due to Z’s brilliance. We still committed 2 errors and only scored 3 runs.
I guess I’m just wondering more and more about some of Lou’s moves. I realize that the manager is always in the cross-hairs when a team is losing, but playing Fonty over Cedeno is a real head-scratcher.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on May 6, 2008 11:24 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Z's fastball?
What’s this about Z not having good velocity?
I didn’t get to follow the game so I don’t know at what velocity Zambrano was working in. That being said, I wonder if Pat and Ron were confusing Z’s conscious approach of throwing 88-90 fastballs with not having good velocity (i.e., 94-95 MPH heaters). Like I’ve said many times before I like Z’s chances a lot when he throws a lot in the 88-90 range.
by Luis on May 7, 2008 4:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Today's game is played in the MORNING
in the Central. These games are early!
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
by Chanman25 on May 7, 2008 6:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The 3 Runs
Just a quick comment (my first, so this is half actual comment and half test) on the ‘only scoring 3 runs’ point. Yes, we weren’t exactly smacking the ball around last night, but Aaron Harang is one of the best pitchers in the NL. You have to look no further than Soto’s at bat with men on 2nd and 3rd and one out. Harang K’s him on 3 pitches. And it wasn’t a matter of Soto being impatient – it was a matter of 3 great, great pitches.
So ultimately, I don’t feel too bad about only scoring 3.
Glad to be a part of the community here, too!
by AceCubbie on May 7, 2008 6:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Harang
Look at the Cubs three runs – they were tough out pitches that they were able to poke into the outfield. Could have been ground outs and into extra innings. I thought Harang threw a great game.
by rmonday557 on May 7, 2008 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
I actually think Harang had better stuff last nigh than Zambrano did, but Zambrano got the defensive help he needed and pulled through, while Harang got beat by some tough luck hits. Pretty well-pitched game on both sides. Nice to see Zambrano get a win on a night where he didn’t have ace stuff.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was a combination of Harang's stuff
and some pretty weak Cub bats. The Cubs don’t have a lot of guys locked in right now. You see how the struggled with Aram out of the lineup beacause he was on of the few Cubs swinging a hot bat right now. I will be curious to see how the bats do today.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 7, 2008 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More important to get Woody in there
for the 9th than for Z with a CG. He was at 113 (IMHO that’s not that much for Z…) and easily could have finished it off. It was more important however, for Wood to get in there and start to re-establish himself. CG’s are nice, W’s with your closer doing what he’s supposed to do is better.
by blackhawk24 on May 7, 2008 7:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Zambrano
While Z’s SO/BB ratio is great so far, is anyone concerned that his number of strikeouts is somewhat low (38 in 55 IP)? He struck out only 3 last night in 8 innings.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on May 7, 2008 7:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No. It's wins that count. Don't be
fooled by strikeout numbers. I believe that Big Z is making a transition from a thrower to a pitcher. The important stat for him is pitch count, not strikeouts. If he is in the game he has a better chance of the cubs winning because of his low BA against number. The stats prove out that the longer he stays in the game the more successful he is. This relates to getting outs and not piling up strikeouts. Strikeouts mean more pitches which just gets him out of the game sooner.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 7, 2008 7:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand, but....
You are eventually going to need the strikeouts in tight situations (bases loaded, no outs, etc.) You don’t want a big bopper making contact in those instances.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on May 7, 2008 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The important fact is the he can
reach back and get a strikeout when he needs it. Believe me, I love seeing Big Z mow down hitters with high heat as much as the next guy but an ace can always find a way to get outs if he doesn’t have his best stuff. The strikeouts will come and on nights when he has his best stuff he will get his share, but the important stat for him is pitch count. Limiting walks will keep him in games much more than striking out batters. His stuff is so good right now that he only has to stay in games to be successful. He can’t help the cubs if he is in the shower after piling up 110 pitches in 5 innings.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 7, 2008 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z is capable of getting the K when he needs it,
he just beginning to learn when he does and doesn’t need it.
This is only tangentially related, but Kenny Holtzman once threw a no-hitter without striking anyone out. Bizarre.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right on. Being
able to get the strikeout is the key. We all know that the Cubs have struckout a boat load of batters in the past 10 years, but those strikeout guys rarely last past the 5-6 innings. I feel much better when Big Z is on the bump and pitching. I would perfer for him to get outs and I could care less if they are strikeout or hit outs.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 7, 2008 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking forward to seeing Marmol today
His current pitching is like watching a military airshow…I can’t get enuf of it. ‘Will be tuned into the 7th and 8th innings….....
by Cajuncub on May 7, 2008 8:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What does everyone think
What does everyone think of the big controversey over the dolls in the Sox clubhouse?
I think it may be the dumbest controversey in recent world history.
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 7, 2008 8:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
Then again, I spent four years in the Marines…
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's silly. Biggest non-story I ever heard of. This is just an
example of how sports is covered today. I guess when you have 162 games, you have to talk about something. I don’t know who reported it, but if it was a beat writer, it was really stupid. How can you expect to get anything from players if you print this trivial garbage? This whole thing was a just a waste of space.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 7, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Joe Cowley of the Sun Times who broke the story locally on The Score,
but I believe the Toronto print media picked up the story first.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's when I heard it
That’s when I first heard of it and when they said “Breaking news” I thought someone was hurt or a trade or something.
To call this Breaking news someone at the Score needs to be beaten with a stick.
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 7, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
everyone at the Score needs to be beaten with a stick
Fixed.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
That’s why I didn’t post about it. Who cares?
I note that the SBN site South Side Sox hasn’t said anything about it, either.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good for them.
The Score won’t shut up about. They keep saying it’s not a story and then continue to talk about it. Sports radio in this town is a morass of snark and witlessness.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slow news day? My arse.
strolled past a Sun Times news box yesterday and the front page stopped me in my tracks. Good grief, a full front page on a non event?! C’mon. It was innocent fun. And, um, weren’t 22,000 people just killed in Myanmar? Weren’t two candidates for President of the United States battling in that day’s primaries? This is why we lose patience with the media.
by Emelie on May 7, 2008 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year
Last year the Sun Times made a front page headline after Z expressed frustration at the fans and in the same issue compared him to Michael Vick.
The only use for the Sun Times is if you need to papertrain a dog.
We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.
by cubstoseriesby100 on May 7, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to wrap dead fish in it
but the fish started to complain about the smell.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 7, 2008 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
talking dead fish heads
now that is one concert I’d love to see…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 7, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRosa
Al:
I listened to the pregame with Lou last night and when he brought up D-RO he mention that his bat was slow. I immediatly thought about your post where you spelled out
S-L-O-W. So I think Pinnela and staff read Bleed Cubbie Blue and took your advice.
During my 18 years I came to bat almost 10,000 times. I struck out about 1,700 times and walked maybe 1,800 times. You figure a ballplayer will average about 500 at bats a season. That means I played seven years without ever hitting the ball. `Mickey Mantle, 1970
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
by iceman71 on May 7, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's not flatter ourselves.
But it’s nice to know the staff is seeing the same things we are.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitch count...
I think pitch count these days is WAY OVERRATED. Remember the days when Ferguson Jenkins, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, etc. pitched 300-400 innings each year with 15-20 complete games? With today’s state-of-the-art training programs, pitchers are better conditioned than 40 years ago. Pitchers are babied too much these days. Teams should stop following pitch count statistics and just let their pitchers pitch until they say they’ve had it. Remember in 1959, when Harvey Haddix pitched his 12.1 inning perfect game, the Braves pitche, Lew Burdette also went the distance!
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on May 7, 2008 9:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem is...
... while athletes are in better shape, pitchers are conditioned from day one in the pros to NOT go nine innings. Further, in the times you are talking about, pitchers didn’t throw their hardest/best stuff at the beginning of games—they held something back for the later innings. With deep bullpens, starters today don’t do that.
You can lament this romantic, lost past where pitchers were “studs” and all threw 300+ innings, but it’s never coming back.
Finally, a lot of young pitchers lost careers to injury by overthrowing in those days. With modern arthroscopic surgery/Tommy John surgery today, that doesn’t have to happen—but also, there is a lot more money invested in modern pitchers, and teams don’t want to see that investment wasted.
For a prime example of that, just remind yourself what happened with The Former Employee.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isnt he supposed to be back soon
aghhhhh NO
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 7, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
Had another “setback” a couple weeks ago.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought i heard that
Dont go looking for it, but do if you want :), I remember searching for a link to that story when I heard it but could never find it.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 7, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw it on a rotowire update on Yahoo
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was the towel too heavy?
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry
by Jayo525 on May 7, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If only there were a Towel Hall of Fame.
He’d be a charter member.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 7, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now there's a shocker.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 7, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like deja vu all over again.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 7, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still question pitch counts as a major
problem for that guy. I don’t think al the babying in the world would have kept him on the field. The guy is just soft. You know it and I know it.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 7, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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