Open Thread: Cubs vs. Reds, Wednesday 5/7, 11:35 CT
by Al
on May 7, 2008 8:02 AM CDT
in Game Threads
Chicago @ Cincinnati
It's baseball with an early lunch today as the Cubs have one of only two 11:35 am (CDT) starts this year (the other will be August 27 in Pittsburgh). And with Jon Lieber pitching, it's got a fair chance of being over before afternoon rush hour.
A few morning headlines:- Lou Piniella says changes may be coming. He's particularly unhappy with team defense:
"The state of the Cubs?" he said before Tuesday night's game with the Reds. "We've got to get better. That's really the state. We got off to a really good start, and we've given some of that back. We need to improve defensively, I can tell you that.
"That's an area, definitely, that needs improvement, and it's going to be my job to put people out there who can catch the ball. I can't do it in every, every position, but I'm going to do it in as many positions as I can."
- Scott Eyre may rejoin the Cubs on Friday. Please, Lou and Jim, please. Send a pitcher down when Eyre comes back. A 13-man staff is asking for trouble.
- Batting coach Gerald Perry might be fined after his ejection on Monday. I agree with Paul Sullivan's comment:
Unless a coach or manager is constantly chirping, the plate umpire usually just tells him to pipe down. Are some umpires trigger-happy these days when it comes to hearing a dissenting view from the dugout?
- The MLBPA is still investigating alleged collusion regarding certain free agents who were not and still are not signed for 2008. Free advice: get a life.
| Today's Starting Pitchers | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Despite drawing four walks in five innings off Volquez at Wrigley Field on April 17, the Cubs could manage only four hits and a run, in the only game the Reds won in that series, and the only time Volquez has faced the Cubs. Reed Johnson had two of the four hits.
By contrast, Jon Lieber, who's been around forever (one of his teammates his rookie year in Pittsburgh was Lance Parrish), has made 26 career appearances (24 starts) vs. the Reds and is 11-8, 4.04, pretty close to his career averages against all teams. Though Adam Dunn has hit two HR off him (in 27 AB), the remarkable Lieber vs. Dunn stat is that Lieber has never walked Dunn.
Today's game is on CSN Chicago only. More info at the MLB.com Mediacenter.
MLB.com Gameday (2007 version)
MLB.com Gameday (2008 version)
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Today's overflow comment thread will post at 1:00 pm CT.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
0 recs |
647
comments
| Add your comment
EmailComments
Anyone care to speculate what the changes are Lou is referring to?
I look around the lineup and the only one I see is at 2B….we may have seen the change last night-Cedeno at 2B for both glove and stick. I can’t think of another position he can or would change for defensive purposes-unless he means to send down Pie and the Gammons blog rumor of bringing in a left handed outfielder comes to pass…...or Cedeno at SS and DeRosa at 2B (Al’s fave).
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on
May 7, 2008 8:14 AM CDT
reply
0 recs
Shortstop
is the position where we have the biggest gaping hole defensively, but I’m not sure Lou believes that.
Why do you think Pie would be sent down if we are looking for better defense? Pie’s defense is top notch.
by DGU on
May 7, 2008 8:16 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Good question.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 7, 2008 8:18 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Agree on Pie's defense....
...and it appears that the context of Lou’s remarks related to defense-but it’s hard to say if that’s all he was talking about. He mentions how the team has to play better as a whole and how other teams are laying for us this year. When Gammons spoke on Baseball tonight-he practically spoke in first person as though he had his info from Hendry/Lou directly.
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on
May 7, 2008 8:23 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I didn't see Gammons on BBTN
but I did read the blog. Did he say something different than what he said on the blog?
I, for one, hope we don’t bring in a LH OF. We have Felix Pie. Felix is getting it. There are few LH OFs out there (and probably none available) who will make our ballclub better. Almost all of them make our defense worse.
by DGU on
May 7, 2008 8:27 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Gammons was on last night....
I can’t quote verbatim what he said, but it related to outfielders the Cubs may be interested in-Griffey is a good fit except for his option..and there were others who’s names escape me now Bradley? Crisp? What struck me and remains impressed in my memory was how authoritatively Gammons spoke as though he were a total insider to the decision process and as though a move was a foregone conclusion.
Lou’s words obviously carry more weight though—especially where he uses words like might and hope:
“We might have to make some changes, yeah,” he said. “I hope not. I really hope not. I hope that we can stay just the way we are. We’re going through a little bit of a rough spell and that we can work our way through it.
“I’ve been giving some thought about doing some things with the baseball team. There’s no rush. But at the same time, there’s some food for thought.”
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on
May 7, 2008 8:46 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Griffey
Is no better than Pie now. That’s too much money to spend for a guy who’s hitting .230. I would much rather see Pie than Griffey. Just because he has a name doesn’t mean he’ll make us any better. We’ve got power hitters in Lee, Soriano, Ramirez, and Soto. Griffey would just slow us down.
by walsh2317 on
May 7, 2008 9:55 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Pie has to stay....I am confident Lou can see the lack of range
..everyday at SS. Problem is its hard to bench the guy when he is hitting .325 /397 /421
Something has to give and it shouldnt be Pie.
Felix Pie must play everyday!
by JB 23 on
May 7, 2008 8:28 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
SS is a silent problem...
Theriot doesn’t make mistakes, he just can’t make plays. So Lou doesn’t see Theriot screwing up. As for glaring defensive problems, it’s been 2B and LF. But I will be surprised if Piniella makes a change in LF.
I didn’t read that article as evidence that Piniella is going to make changes. I read it as “if things don’t change soon, then I may have to make changes.” I suspect he’s just trying to light a fire under the players.
by SouthernCub on
May 7, 2008 8:28 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Not Theriot
Theriot is hitting too well to be removed from the line up. I think it most likely will be 2B, with Cedeno getting the majority of playing time and DeRo platooning at LF RF 3B 2B, etc.
They call me MISTER Fukudome!
by brokenland on
May 7, 2008 8:30 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Theriot/Cedeno
I don’t understand why Theriot isn’t at 2nd and Cedeno at short. That seems like a much better combo. DeRosa can supersub. Cedeno is putting up very good numbers. It’s almost as if Hendry got what he wanted without shipping 4 stud prospects.
my owner buys me the expensive cat food, but i'll just eat this dvd shrinkwrap and that bug over there
by dr stabbingworth on
May 7, 2008 8:34 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Agreed
If Theriot had been at his best position (2b) and Cedeno at his (SS), would that DP have been botched last night?
And I just don’t get how Theriot’s hitting saves his spot at SS when Cedeno is hitting better (.373/.458/.549).
by DGU on
May 7, 2008 8:52 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I too agree
that Cedeno should be at short and TheRiot at 2b. But, if Lou made that change he would have to make it permanently (meaning Cedeno everyday at short), and while all of us seem convinced that this move would be in the best interests of the club, Lou doesn’t seem convinced of this fact.
Switching Theriot back and forth depending on when Cedeno plays would be detrimental to his already fragile defensive skills. There is always a lot of talk about a players struggling when switching sides of the infield as it changes the player’s footwork (especially on double plays) and how they see the ball coming off the bat. Thus, it is always better to keep MI on the same side of the infield whenever possible.
Personally, I would be excited to see Cedeno made the everyday shortstop on TheRiot the 2B. I think our defense would be better and our offense would be better. DeRo could then be the super sub, spelling Ram, Sori, and Dome, and even DLee at times. This arrangement just seems to maximize everyone’s abilities.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
May 7, 2008 8:59 AM CDT
up
reply
1 recs
I would love to see that combo too,
but DeRo seems to be lou’s security blanket. He seems to want to keep the second base spot reserved for him if one of the other regulars is not hurt. That is keeping Theriot at short adn Cedeno out of the lineup on a regular basis.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
May 7, 2008 9:03 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Code word for Ronny Cedeno playing more
That’s what I think Lou means. I think we will see Cedeno play a little more 2nd base and shortstop, and quite possibly even some center field. Maybe he gets 3-4 starts a week???
Lou, stop being obstinate...bat Soriano # 6.
by MDBNIU on
May 7, 2008 9:25 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
agreed
this is lou’s way of saying that cedeno will get a couple more starts a week. i dont see him filling in at center though.
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on
May 7, 2008 9:45 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Maybe Riot gets a day off too
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on
May 7, 2008 9:45 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
let's not forget, though
that Cedeno is not a very smart ballplayer. Even more than the numbers he has put up in the past, it’s been his mental lapses and lack of instincts for the game that has driven fans insane. At least now he’s showing some offensive promise, but let’s remember that Ronnie the Remedial Baseball Player will return.
by davidalanu on
May 7, 2008 11:10 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I disagree
For the sake of argument, lets think about all these “boneheaded” plays Cedeno makes.
Overslid 2nd on a walk – when he had the sign to steal.
Airmailed a few balls to 1st…
....what else?
Again, this is for the sake of argument and I hope to remind myself of what everyone’s referring to when they say Cedeno is not a smart player. I’ve seen a very very good and solid player so far this year….i.e. ONCEDEC
by cubsonWGN4ever on
May 7, 2008 11:17 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
ONCE DEC, twice shy
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on
May 7, 2008 11:21 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
he certainly
seems to have figured it out. He’s had an AH-HAH moment.
We just need a picture of him with a lightbulb going off over his head…
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 7, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
my fave too.
No way you bench DeRosa and keep Theriot in.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 7, 2008 10:37 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
With Lou now stating defense is a problem
it will be interesting to see who gets blamed and who gets more playing time. DeRoMyHero has an interesting post under the recap wondering if DeRosa getting moved around so much has affected his defense. I guess the question, then, is if you leave DeRosa at 2B and move Ronny more – is he more likely to be defensively stable? I’m not sure that he is.
The other question is – do we need our players moving around so much to different positions, or is that mostly a function of Lou trying to squeeze Mike Fontenot’s left-handedness into the lineup so often? If Sori’s injured, just play Murton/Johnson. If Rami’s injured, just play Cedeno. Sure, they’re right-handed, but they also play better than Fontenot and it’s not like offense has been the problem.
by DGU on
May 7, 2008 8:14 AM CDT
reply
0 recs
I dunno.
Moving DeRo around last year didn’t affect his defense that much. I’m not sure why this year should be any different.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 7, 2008 8:19 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I wonder if we're only seeing a blip
caused mostly by the interruption in spring training for DeRosa. Give him a full season and this will all even out.
by DGU on
May 7, 2008 8:24 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I think he is just
a bit tired and needs a couple of days off. His bat is real slow and he is pulling off a lot of pitches. Signs of a tired ballplayer.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
May 7, 2008 8:29 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I think it's a sign of him coming back to earth
DeRo needs to learn to swing for contact. You can always tell when he gets ahead in the count he’ll take one massive swing for the fences, then strike out on the next pitch. And after seeing him at Wrigley recently, his defensive technique is lazy.
I agree though, he does look tired.
my owner buys me the expensive cat food, but i'll just eat this dvd shrinkwrap and that bug over there
by dr stabbingworth on
May 7, 2008 8:36 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Sometimes I think he thinks he
is a homerun hitter. He will hit the occasional dinger but his value is really driving in runs with base hits. He has a good eye and knows how to work the count in his favor, bu i agree that when he gets his pitch in a favorable count he overswings.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
May 7, 2008 8:47 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
without a doubt
starting last week it looked like he thought he was barry bonds at the plate. im not sure why he thinks he’s a power hitter, but he definitely has this idea in his head that a homer is more important than a groundball to the right side with a runner on third and less than two outs.
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on
May 7, 2008 9:18 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
DeRosa is a quality 2nd baseman
He certainly has had some hiccups in the early going, but overall he is a sound defensive 2nd baseman.
Lou, stop being obstinate...bat Soriano # 6.
by MDBNIU on
May 7, 2008 9:26 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I think
there’s a big difference between moving De-Ro between three very different positions - 2nd, 3rd, LF - and moving Cedeno between SS and 3rd.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 7, 2008 10:51 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I hope this means Lou has noticed
what many of us did long ago: Ryan Theriot is a bad defensive shortstop. Not a strong arm, very limited range, and does not get a good break on the ball. It might seem silly to bench a guy hitting .322, but he has no power, has only 9 RBI, and leads the league in CS. Couple that with poor defense and it seems he’s ready to assume the role he’s best suited for, and that’s to be the reserve IF.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 7, 2008 8:30 AM CDT
reply
1 recs
The Theriot hate is out of control here
His only job is to play adequate defense and get on in front of Lee and Ramirez. You want to bench a guy getting on base 40% of the time? That’s absurd.
DeRosa is struggling at the plate and plays worse defense than Theriot. He’s the kind of guy who has bench players stamped all over him.
my owner buys me the expensive cat food, but i'll just eat this dvd shrinkwrap and that bug over there
by dr stabbingworth on
May 7, 2008 8:47 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Theriot has been hitting well
but in no way is he a better player than DeRosa. DeRosa is more versatile, has more power and yes, walks more. The only thing Theriot might have on him is BA but let’s see as the season progresses.
by rlpete on
May 7, 2008 8:51 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
The problem is that Theriot doesn't fit the roster well.
He isn’t as good a SS as Cedeno nor as good a 2B as DeRosa. His career numbers in both the majors and minors have a lot of fans scared he’s in for a downward correction and that Lou will keep playing him through an unending slump.
Rumors are that the Rockies are searching for middle IF help and a pitcher who can eat innings. I think it would be great for the Cubs if we could package Marquis and Theriot together in a trade to the Rox. Then we can let our better players take over their playing time.
by DGU on
May 7, 2008 9:01 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
That's a lot to give
what do we get in return?
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
May 7, 2008 9:05 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
What do the Rockies have to give?
Off of the ML roster, there’s not much –
The easiest trade would net us Scott Podsednik. I really, really don’t want to see that. I think if we gave both Theriot and Marquis we could expect more than Pods. Omar Quintanilla could be a useful piece to the Cubs as a LH utility player, upgrading Fontenot, at least in versatility. He would be a throw-in piece.
The real goodies would come from their farm system where they have both pitching and hitting.
by DGU on
May 7, 2008 9:17 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Ugh.
The Cubs don’t need Podsednik.
What they’d likely get for Theriot would be a lower-level pitching prospect. That’d be OK with me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 7, 2008 9:39 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I agree.
The idea of Scotty Pods in Cubbie blue makes my skin crawl.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on
May 7, 2008 10:11 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
hawpe
brad hawpe is the only player i can think of that the cubs could want off the rockies lineup. getting him would require that we give up a lot and move dome to cf, but it would provide a good lh bat for sure. (but surely i don’t think it will happen – the rox have no reason to want to give him up) Quintailla is not ready and is only up because of tulo’s injury.
... now if we could trade soriano for holiday i’d do that i a cold minute!
"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella
by anormal on
May 7, 2008 11:07 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Quintanilla is as ready as Fontenot
and has the added ability of being able to play any IF position.
by DGU on
May 7, 2008 11:25 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
i don’t see it, but i also think that neither of those guys should be a regular starter unless there is an injury situation.
"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella
by anormal on
May 7, 2008 11:27 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Disagree
DeRosa is a butcher in the field. Also, when, and if, Theriot stops hitting, then he can be benched. He’s managed .320/.390 for 25 games so far. Let him ride it out.
my owner buys me the expensive cat food, but i'll just eat this dvd shrinkwrap and that bug over there
by dr stabbingworth on
May 7, 2008 10:37 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
The opinions stated as fact here
are hysterical. DeRosa is fine at 2nd. Certainly as good as Theriot. Let’s see Theriot try and play a different position everyday.
by rlpete on
May 7, 2008 10:46 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
a butcher?
Maybe in the Bizarro world. But in the Bizarro world, the Cubs have won every WS since 1908 (that one loss really rankles Bizarro Lou) so it’s ok for him to be serving up the bizarro lamb.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on
May 7, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Why does nobody here recognize the existance of extra bases?
by cwyers on
May 7, 2008 11:48 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
I reject them!
And It’ll be a cold day in hell when I recognize Missouri too!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on
May 7, 2008 11:50 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Oh Abe...
n/t
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on
May 7, 2008 11:50 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Oprah told me not to.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on
May 7, 2008 11:50 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
He doesn't play adequate defense,
and the outs he makes on the basepaths (already 3 or 4), coupled with his CS’s (6) mitigate any added benefit his OBP provides. I love how the Theriot crowd spent all last season telling us not to look at stats, and now they break the backs bending over backwards to nutpick his stats to find some justification for him to keep his starting job.
I don’t hate Theriot; I just don’t want him starting. I want him on the team, he’s perfect for the reserve IF role, but his poor defense, lack of power, and ineptitude on the basepaths prohibit me from accepting any arguments for him to continue in a starting role.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 7, 2008 9:02 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
This is how I feel, too.
I definitely don’t hate Theriot per se. In fact, I think he’s done a damn good job of getting on base thus far. The main problem is defense: His lack of range and arm strength are the pink elephant in the room that many Cubs fans (and perhaps Lou himself) don’t want to talk about.
If 1Dec truly has figured it out offensively - and he seems to be proving again and again that he has - he would give the team just as much OBP as Theriot with more slugging and better defense.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on
May 7, 2008 10:18 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
The riot
would have a few more RBIs if the lead-off spot wasn’t such a black hole.
by salparadise23 on
May 7, 2008 8:58 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
It's his complete lack of power,
not an ineffective leadoff cabal, that keeps his RBI total low.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 7, 2008 9:07 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
plus the fact he's batting #2
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on
May 7, 2008 12:30 PM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Defensive Upgrades
The only guys I can see who are not getting regular playing time who would be defensive upgrades are Pie and Cedeno.
Go ahead Lou, bring ‘em in. And if Cedeno is the best defensive shortstop on the club (which is at least a distinct possibility), then wouldn’t it be better to play him there, with Theroit vying with Derosa for the 2B/Utility role.
by simonuk on
May 7, 2008 8:49 AM CDT
reply
0 recs
Is there an adequate explanation
for Theriot’s poor base stealing percentage this year? Are pitchers and catchers paying more attention to him? Is he getting consistently bad jumps? Is he picking the wrong time in the count to attempt a steal?
It just seems odd that a guy would go from a 88% success rate last year (28 of 34) to his abysmal success rate this year of 57% (8 of 14).
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
May 7, 2008 9:09 AM CDT
reply
0 recs
Small sample size?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on
May 7, 2008 9:11 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs
Perhaps.
His last two years in the minors, he posted 71% (AA) and 82% (AAA), but the two seasons prior, he was only slightly above 50%. Maybe it’ll even out.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
May 7, 2008 9:13 AM CDT
up
reply
0 recs