Minor League Wrap--May 6
I usually do these after getting the baby down and before I go to bed. But last night the site was down when that happened. I don't have the time to do my usual full job in the morning, but I'll do an abbreviated version.
Iowa Cubs
The Iowa Cubs continued their West Coast Swing with a 5-2 loss to the Tacoma Raniers.
Rich Hill started and got the loss, although he only allowed two runs in five innings. Scott Eyre gave up a run in one rehab inning.
Casey McGehee went 3 for 4 with two doubles.
Tennessee Smokies
The Smokies lost to the Chattanooga Lookouts, 5-2.
Donnie Veal had a bad start and took the loss. In four innings he gave up five runs, four earned. He allowed two two-run home runs.
The Smokies only managed two hits on the evening.
Daytona Cubs
Daytona lost to the Ft. Myers Miracle, 4-2.
Jose Ceda started and pitched well, allowing only one run on two hits and two walks in six innings. He struck out five. Billy Petrick threw 1.1 innings and allowed an unearned run in a rehab appearance. Casey Lambert allowed two unearned runs to take the loss.
Center fielder Jonathan Wyatt went 3 for 4.
Peoria Chiefs
The Chiefs close out the bad news with a 4-3 loss to the Cedar Rapids Kernels.
Ryan Acosta started and allowed one run in five innings. Audy Santana got the loss by allowing one run in two innings of relief.
Right fielder Kyler Burke went 1 for 3 with a double, a walk, a run scored and a stolen base.
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rich
5 k’s to 1 walk, ill take it no matter the other stats. 7 hits in 5 innings may have been partially due to iowa defense, solid rebound start it looks like.
anyone else 99% sure that donnie veal will never be a successful major league starter?
gosh, i hope the guy can just make it as a decent reliever at this point.
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on
May 7, 2008 10:40 AM CDT
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Jeez
Veal was just coming off three straight starts without allowing an earned run. In five of his seven starts this season, he’s allowed one earned run or fewer.
Tough house tonight.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on
May 7, 2008 10:49 AM CDT
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i claim ignorance
though its my own fault because i didnt even take the time to look at his season thus far. it just seemed like from reading these posts that he had not been doing well. it just seems as though he has been in double a with this unfulfilled potential for years on end now. im sure i am exagerrating, and hope that he earns a promotion to iowa this year.
what is your opinion of his future in the big leagues?
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on
May 7, 2008 10:57 AM CDT
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I try not to have one
But honestly, his walk rates still concern me a great deal. I suppose he could end up as a left-handed Ryan Dempster, a guy who also has troubling walk rates. But the thing is that by the time Dempster was Veal’s age, he was in the majors and winning 14 games with the Marlins.
I’d really like to see more than seven games this season. Last season was pretty bad and set him back a ways. This season he looks like he’s back on track, but I want to see more.
I don’t think the predictions of Veal being a #2 starter in the majors is realistic at this point. But I do think Veal will have a major league career of some sort. Certainly the pen is a possibility, but starting is still the most likely outcome. I’m trying not to make a prediction at how good he’ll be because I just don’t think we know yet.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on
May 7, 2008 11:12 AM CDT
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cool, thanks
hopefully he will be a starter for the cubs in a couple years, and i would hope that he is better than jason marquis.
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on
May 8, 2008 9:17 AM CDT
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Better than Marquis?
I’m not saying that it isn’t worth hoping but as bad as Marquis has been, he’s having a successful career. He has a lifetime mark of 69-63. Do you think pitchers like Juan Mateo, Angel Guzman, Neil Cotts, etc. don’t wish for a career as good as Marquis?
Not trying to criticize but a major league career is a tough thing. As bad as Marquis has been, it’s been a successful career so far.
by rlpete on
May 8, 2008 12:35 PM CDT
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Jason Marquis has arguably had a very successful career.
That’s not the same as being a good pitcher or being a talented pitcher. When you get down below the middle portion of the bell curve when it comes to talent distribution, what you find is that there’s a lot more players than there are spots.
For every mediocre player who’s lucked his way into a successful career, there’s four or five players who are just as talented but never got the big break necessary to get into the majors and stick.
by cwyers on
May 8, 2008 2:29 PM CDT
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I've seen Veal pitch twice this season in person and the best word to describe him?
Underwhelming. Not very impressive looking stuff, mediocre control, and seems to be bothered by adversity, much like Rich Hill. If this guy was a righty, he’d be in A ball riding out the string in my opinion. Granted, I hope I’m completely wrong in the long run.
by VolPowers on
May 7, 2008 11:01 AM CDT
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Let's hope some of the hits were because...
...Hill was working on his change as well. At the risk of stating the obvious, I really hope he gets his control together and comes back to the majors as quickly as possible.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on
May 7, 2008 10:52 AM CDT
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There have been
a lot of comparisons to Arthur Rhodes. I think that his future is going to be in the bullpen as a quality set up man.
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
by thecoolest on
May 8, 2008 9:47 PM CDT
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We're all pulling for Hill to work it out
Thanks for the report; I was wondering how he would do after being sent to Iowa. It is hard to accurately guage results with the new support players…and as dat cubfan daver states, he should be working on his various pitches. Go Rich!
by Cajuncub on
May 7, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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Mechanics or Mental?
Rich Hill goes down to Iowa and in his first start back walks just ONE in 5 innings and throws 47 of his 78 pitches for strikes (60%).
So do we really think the mechanics are the issue? I mean, if mechanics were the problem the miraculous plane trip to iowa probably wouldn’t cure it right? So I’m sticking with my original assumption and saying this is mental.
So assuming it’s mental what have we removed from the equation for Rich’s control to improve?
Well, we’ve removed pitching in a major league ballpark. We’ve removed pitching with the threat of your job on the line (since he can’t reasonably be demoted any further), and we’ve removed pitching in front of Lou Pineilla (the man who constantly questioned Rich Hill’s job security publicly).
I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest maybe just maybe… Pineilla’s over-bearing nature was the problem here with Hill and nothing mechanically. Granted it’s Rich’s fault for having a fragile enough confidence/psyche (under the assumption this is not a mechanical issue) to be able to handle Pineilla’s impatience, but isn’t it the manager’s job to put the player in the best position to succeed? Doesn’t it look like now that he’s turned around the control so quickly, that Hill was struggling with the mental aspects of the game and the manager’s insistent pressure probably wasn’t helping?
Just saying….
by DartmouthCubsFan on
May 7, 2008 11:15 AM CDT
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Well...
... Hill did OK last year with Piniella as his manager. I think there’s a combination of factors—it maybe began as a mechanical problem, then Lou put pressure on Hill and then Hill, who tends to overthink, put more pressure on himself, making the mechanical problem worse…
Make sense?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 7, 2008 12:57 PM CDT
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Makes a lot of sense
I’ve been saying this all along, Hill’s fragile for lack of a better word “makeup” is the real problem here. But I feel very strongly that Lou exascerbated these issues by yo-yo-ing his role around in the media, which he hasn’t done with any of the veteran pitchers. Even in spring training he was very quiet when talking about the 3 starters individually. He’d mention the loser of the 3 man battle for 2 spots would be in the bullpen but he never said WHO was losing specifically. He allowed them to just go out and pitch.
With Rich the moment he started showing some in-game struggles, Lou talked about moving him to the bullpen. Then he talked about skipping his starts. Then he did skip his starts. All of this was public and right there for Rich to read in the papers. So every start Rich went out knowing he was pitching for his job. Even when Lou tried to do things that would help him (pulling him early in games to try to get a W and leave with something positive), Lou would then publicly admit as much, basically showing HIS CONFIDENCE in Rich was fading
Some players respond well to this, others not as well. I, personally, think Rich is the kind of guy who needs to be coddled a bit. He’s a great talent who’s able to cruise through lineups with just 2 pitches when things are right, but when things go wrong he loses confidence and starts aiming the ball. He’s never been given the leash at the major league level to work himself out of jams so the pressure builds with each walk. Instead of thinking let me get this next guy out, he’s thinking who’s warming up in the pen? (Because there usually is someone warming in the pen)
It’s a viscious cycle that is mainly the result of Rich Hill not being the most mentally tough player, but its a cycle that I believe our manager has made significantly worse by his handling of the situation and if he continues to manage Rich in this manner, I think we’re going to lose out on a nice talent.
Lou needs to take his foot off the pedal with Rich and trust Rich’s talent to come through. Heck, if he keeps telling Rich to trust his talent, maybe it would be easier for Rich to do if he knew his manager was trusting it as well
by DartmouthCubsFan on
May 7, 2008 3:38 PM CDT
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i agree
even though i think you are a little pre-disposed to be anti lou, i agree that piniella has not handled this well at all. i mean, on april 18 rich throws 5 inn, gives up 3 hits and 1 run yet lou takes him out of the game “to keep his confidence high.” next outing, same story.
does make sense to anyone? all that does is scream to the pitcher, “i dont trust you to keep the score as it is, im glad you gave us 5 good innings, lets not screw it up now, hand me the ball.” that just plain stupid.
"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.
by kylejo on
May 8, 2008 9:25 AM CDT
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i probably am pre-disposed to be anti-lou
Its nothing against Lou personally, i just HATE “coach worship”
I think the best managers are the ones that do the least to lose you extra games. I don’t believe managers can “win” extra games. I believe firmly talent wins and not chemistry or any other meaningless coach speak
A good manager is one who does the least damage
So, yes i am probably pre-disposed to anti-lou, just like i was pre-disposed to be anti-dusty, but then everyone went nuts bashing dusty and praising Lou (when they’re pretty comparable managers) and I’ve since come off as pro-dusty/anti-lou
when in reality i’m anti-manager/pro general manager (in terms of actual impact on the game)
by DartmouthCubsFan on
May 8, 2008 12:49 PM CDT
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Barney
Fellow Oregon Stater Darwin Barney extended his hitting streak to 8 games for Daytona.
"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard
by TXCub on
May 7, 2008 3:43 PM CDT
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Minor records
I’ve never really looked before but these wraps have brought to my attention that out of the 4 minor league squads, Daytona’s 16-16 record is the best in the system. Is that cause for concern?
"I'm petrified of nipple chafing. Once it starts, it's a vicious circle." Andy Bernard
by TXCub on
May 7, 2008 3:45 PM CDT
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No
Minor league teams are not run to win games. Conversely, the Salt Lake Bees are 25-6, but there’s hardly a prospect on the team right now with Brandon Wood, Nick Adenhart and Sean Rodriguez in the majors. Kendry Morales is about it (and he’s technically not a prospect, since he’s been in the majors too much.)
So the fact that the Cubs minor league teams are not playing well is not a cause for concern. What is a cause for concern, however, is that several highly-touted prospects like Tyler Colvin, Kyler Burke and Josh Donaldson are off to slow starts, and others, like Tony Thomas, are only doing OK. Josh Vitters has still barely played. That’s what you should be concerned about. But the overall record? Naah. It’s meaningless.
So I guess I’m saying you should be concerned but not about the wins and losses. :-)
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on
May 7, 2008 5:42 PM CDT
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About wins and losses
You are correct in saying that minor league teams’ records per se are meaningless—I mean, seriously, who cares if the Iowa Cubs win the PCL title?
But in a larger sense, I think it DOES matter. Wouldn’t you like to see Cub prospects come to the major leagues with a history of winning games? Doesn’t that feel better than losing? Maybe it’s purely psychological, but I don’t think I’d like losing games at every level in the minors, then come to the major leagues with a winning attitude.
JMHO, etc etc.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 8, 2008 3:54 AM CDT
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Don't think it makes any difference
Let’s look at the last (and only) time the Iowa Cubs won a championship—the 1993 Iowa Cubs.
Let’s see who’s on that team. Steve Trachsel, Turk Wendell and Jose Hernandez are the guys from that team to have long playing careers, and none of them were very special, nor did any of them really exceed their expectations. If anything, Wendell was a bit of a disappointment. Actually, that’s not quite true—Tuffy Rhodes had a Hall of Fame career in Japan, if there is such a thing. The rest of the team is guys like Matt Wallbeck, Matt Franco, Doug Jennings, Jim Bullinger, etc., etc.
Or the 1999 Lansing Lugnuts who won a lot of games but lost in the playoffs. Zambrano and Wuertz were big hits from that team, but Corey Patterson, Hee-Seop Choi, Dave Kelton, Nate Frese and Jeff Goldbach have all disappointed.
I do agree with you, however, that developing a positive attitude and approach to the game is a very important part of minor league development. It’s not just about the numbers, which is where you and I agree (and why I’m higher on Samardzija than a lot of people are). But I’m not sure winning develops that. For some players, sure. But for a lot of players, these are guys who hit .650 in high school on teams that went 35-4 their senior year. These guys actually need to lose a few games and to know what it’s like to struggle!
If teams in the minors are winning games because their players are developing and playing better every game, then great. But the easiest and most common way to win games in the minors is to stick a bunch of minor league veterans, too old for their level, on a team and let them pound away. Or overuse that young closer or let the starter go out for another inning. Or even just sit on minor league fastballs when you need to learn to hit a breaking pitch (Yeah, I’m looking at you, Ryan Harvey.)
It’s more fun for the fans to see winning teams in the minors, but unless I know why a team is winning or losing, it’s not something I really care about and I don’t think it helps development.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on
May 8, 2008 12:15 PM CDT
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Well said.
In essence, you are saying that most minor league games (in organizational ball, not in the independent leagues) are played much like major league spring training games.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
May 8, 2008 1:43 PM CDT
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