Replacement for Marquis
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 8, 2008 7:21 PM CDT
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PrintLots of talk is going around about trading Jason Marquis. If we were to deal Jason who would we get to replace his shoes. Personally, I would like a starter. I would like a guy who can provide that needed one two punch with Zambrano. We really need that one guy who can be reliable, throw strikes, and rack up double-digit wins. Maybe we need another spot filled. If Marquis was to be moved who would you want?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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The guy is already on the roster:
Sean Gallagher. He and Hill can fill the Lieber and Marquis slots.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Why are you giving up on Lieber?
One bad outing and he’s toast?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I don't think Jon can start anymore
I just thought, watching the game, that Jon just does not have the kind of stuff that would make him ready to start in our rotation. I want a starter who can take over and win ball games consistently. Not Lieber or Marquis. Gary Varsho might be right when he says Sean Gallagher because that guy can pitch
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 8, 2008 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if Gallagher can come right in and win consistently
but if we’re going to throw innings at a guy who’s likely to be inconsistent, I’d rather it be a guy who can develop into something better (Gallagher) than a guy who is likely to continue to be mediocre (Marquis).
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
for the future
he wouldn’t be good this year maybe but sean has a career path ahead of him
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 8, 2008 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
Which is why I’d rather see him get innings than Marquis.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Lieber...
Did great in the bullpen. I’d just leave him there. But I’d take Marshall or Gallagher to replace him. Trade Marquis and Pie for a left handed hitting outfielder.
by wrigleyrocker12 on May 8, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd give Lieber one more chance.
Wednesday was… weird.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 8, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions
It was wierd
I wonder if Lieber wasn’t tipping pitches, because the Reds were acting like they knew what was coming.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
yeah.
who knows… but I’d still give him one more chance. Maybe against the Pirates?
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 8, 2008 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd give you a chance
against the Pirates!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
it's not like he needs a confidence builder.
Is he in the rotation for the next week? Do we know?
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 8, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep:
Fastballs down the middle.
He works fast and throws strikes, but every one of those HR balls was just about right over the middle of the plate.
by John Q Freejazz on May 8, 2008 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions
After one start?
Lieber just pitched 3.2 scoreless innings Friday from the 3-6 innings. Is that any different then two innings on Weds I could understand saying this kind of stuff if Lieber started sucking around the 4-5 th inning mark. But right now it just looks like a bad day to me. Lieber totally deserves another starter before people say he can’t start anymore. Anyone who thinks Lieber is bad or done is WAY overreacting.
Exactly.
If we got rid of everyone who had a bad day, the roster would be empty, because all players have them.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
For the record,
I never said the Cubs should dump Lieber; I simply said I like him better in the bullpen role, in which he pitched so well to open the season. I really want to see Gallagher get a shot and perhaps that’s why I’m a bit reactionary over Lieber’s poor outing. But by no stretch of the imagination did I ever advocate dumping Lieber. I simply want him returned to the role where he was succeeding and to give a young pitcher a chance to get a start or two.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
I like Lieber better in the
“oh sh*t!” role as the long man in the bullpen. He pitches well in that role and he seems more comfortable doing it than anyone else. I haven’t given up, per se, I just think Jon’s better suited to his previous role than a starting role.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
no i totally agree
jon shouldn’t be a starter but does a magnificent job in the bullpen. Don’t get me wrong here.
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 8, 2008 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Why
shouldn’t Jon be a starter? This is the most craziest thing I have ever heard. Talk about having a quick hook and fans overreacting. Lieber easily could have had that some type of game out of the bullpen. It’s called a bad day, and alot of older pitchers who don’t have the stuff they once had have them. But like Maddux and Moyer, Lieber has quality control and a good mix of pitches that usually makes him pretty good. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Lieber goes out and throws back to back quality starts, and everyone on this board is saying what a great signing he was.
Lieber is 131-123 with a 4.27 career ERA in 327 career starts, he had a 4.52 era in 12 starts last year, and a 4.52 era in the second half of 06(15 starts). While pitching at a horrible park for a pitcher to pitch at.(which he strugggled alot at) So with Lieber track record and the way he pitched as a starter this spring and out of the pen so far this year. I think everyone should at least give him too starts before they make silly comments like he shouldn’t be starting.
Lieber did
that role for a month, and hasn’t been given much of a chance to start this year. How can you say he’s not suited in a starting role, when he has been a successful starter in almost every year of his career. I agree that Lieber is valueable to have because if the starter sucks he could step in and give us innings and stop the damage. But he’s also a better starter then Marquis, Marshall and probably Gallagher at this point. So it’s more valueable to have him in the rotation and give us good starts, then a guy only coming in mostly blow outs. We need to give Lieber at least two starts. If he sucks again in his next start, then I would say lets just go back with what was working with Lieber. Right now though the guys track record as a good starting pitcher speaks for itself, and pitched very well this spring and in April. People shouldn’t be giving up on him after one awful start. Which only raised his era to 3.80 because he pitched so well in 19.1 innings before that.
I'm only going off how he's performed this season in my suggestion,
which is really all this is, plus I’d rather see Lieber continue in that role and Gallagher get a shot at the rotation.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Lots of talk?
Where? By us? I don’t see Hendry out shopping Marquis. Besides, the way he’s pitched so far this year, who would be interested?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Al...
I know what you’re thinking. Just let it be. There will be another just let this one tomorrow anyway.
by Damen Jackson on May 8, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
So we should add this to the list...
... of posts like this:
- Soriano sucks
- What the lineup should be
- TTTSNBN
RIght?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
What? No BCB T-Shirt Diary?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 8, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions
speaking of which
how about a “I Bleed Cubbie Blue” TSHIRT? I bet we could come up with a rokkin’ design - maybe by toonmike - and I’ll do the management part, if people want. That could be cool. We could do a Tshirt a year, and donate to various Cubs charities.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 8, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I definitely want to do another T-shirt.
The charitable donation is a great idea, too. I’m trying to figure out the best way to do it. Email me and let’s talk.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Hahahaha!!!
The next winning streak can’t get here soon enough.
by Damen Jackson on May 8, 2008 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder who the Padres would give us...
it looks like their season is gonna be over in another month.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 8, 2008 7:52 PM CDT reply actions
Bullpen arms...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 8, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Ill take Heath Bell
OH YES I WOULD. He will be their closer for years though IMO
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
The guys I'd want
are Greene, Cla Meredith, and Heath Bell. I wonder what they’d ask for, though.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
They have some highly touted "Prior" guy too...
(bad joke)
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 8, 2008 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Well,
with Yosh Kiwano retiring, we do need a new towel guy. I suppose he could fit the bill.
Seriously, though, I’m with you on the bullpen arms. I’d love to see Cla Meredith or Heath Bell in pinstripes.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Bell's a good pitcher.
His GB/FB ratio’s are decent, which would bode well for work at Wrigley. I agree that Petco can inflate a players pitching numbers, though.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Bullpen guys, why?
Are you giving up on Howry and Wuertz already too? Please look at the home/road splits for any San Diego pitcher before trading our whole minor league system for them.
I'm not ready to
deal the minor league system. Don’t misrepresent what’s been said here.
Home/Road splits for Meredith:
Home: 2.82 ERA, 1.06WHIP, .228 BAA
Road: 3.21 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, .277 BAA
You’ve already posted Bell’s.
I’d only take these guys at a fire sale prices, as the Cubs aren’t desperate for pitching, but I think they’re both pretty good RP’s.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Didn't mean to jump on you
Usually you are level headed but with the number of ledge jumpers here lately, it’s hard to keep people straight. Of course, I’d take them at fire sale prices but they guys would be the last ones I think the Cubs need.
Yeah.
I’m not desperate for them or anything, but I like both guys. I’d go after Greene, even with his miserable offensive performance thus far. There was a third baseman with Pittsburgh in the midst of a miserable slump that we traded for a few years ago and that turned out pretty well. Maybe Jim can pry Greene lose in a month or so. And who knows, God forbid and an injury happens in the bullpen, maybe he can shake a reliever loose, as well.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Why would San Diego trade him though?
I’ve never understood the frequent mention of him. They recently resigned him to a reasonable extension. They don’t have a replacement. If it is a matter of swapping Cedeno plus pitching prospects for Greene, I’d say no.
I just want to see him here.
I agree with you that SD is unlikely to deal him in all but the most desperate circumstances, especially given the extension, however, with extension being affordable, maybe it makes him more tradeable. At this point though, I;m just rationalizing for my own peace of mind. I wouldn’t deal Cedeno plus more for him, either.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
what about a starter
if we were to grab a starter. looks unlikely. who would it be
by columbusOHcubsfan on May 8, 2008 8:12 PM CDT reply actions
We won't get a SP back for Marquis...
we’ll need to package him with another player…and eat some salary…and that will only get you a RP at most.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 8, 2008 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Just stop...Marquis is untradeable
He’s got roughly $15 million left on his ridiculous contract. There is no team on the planet who is going to take him off our hands.
Lou, stop being obstinate...bat Soriano # 6.
Of course, they haven't.
But that’s a lot of money to ask a team to eat for a guy they probably can’t deal right now because he’s pitching poorly. May as well keep him and hope he becomes SIUQRAM (Marquis “turned around”).
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
There's a difference between shouldn't and couldn't.
I shouldn’t eat two whole large pizzas in one sitting. I couldn’t eat a rusty tire iron.
I have a dremel.
You could use that. maybe it would help. :P
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 8, 2008 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
OK, I'll take the bait...
Do YOU envision Jim Hendry eating $10 million or so in salary just to move Jason Marquis? Because that’s what it’s going to take unless Hendry doesn’t mind also parting with a quality prospect to sweeten the deal.
Suffice to say, Marquis isn’t going anywhere. Plus he insists he can’t pitch out of the bullpen. So either hope he gets his crap together in the rotation or comes down with some sort of injury that lands him on the DL for a very long time.
Lou, stop being obstinate...bat Soriano # 6.
You just mentioned two ways in which Marquis is tradeable.
I like the roundabout way in which you’re admitting you’re wrong here.
Whatever Mr. Semantics
If if your mind Jason Marquis is “technically” tradeable, then best wishes to you.
Lou, stop being obstinate...bat Soriano # 6.
There is a difference between truth and falsehoods here.
These are examples of true statements:
“No team will want to take on all of Marquis’ salary the way he’s pitching so far.”
“The Cubs aren’t getting anything but a sack of used baseballs in exchange for Jason Marquis, and they’d still have to eat salary for the privilege.”
Things that are not true:
“Jason Marquis is untradeable.”
A few years ago, Manny Ramirez was absolutely untradable. You can look it up. But in a world where Matt Morris was traded just last season, Jason Marquis is NOT untradeable. It’s not my problem if you can’t understand the distinction here. It would be a wildly unpleasant experience – likely we’d eat about $7-8 million in salary and end up with a 28-year-old AA right fielder for the trouble.
And does this mean you and I aren’t going to see the Iron Man movie together this weekend?
Careful....
you’ll end up on the MDBNIU Officially Ignored Poster List along with myself and Hammer.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Coffee. All. Over. The. Desk.
Well done. I LOL’ed on that one.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Unreal
The Comic Book Store Guy from the Simpsons clones have officially gone off the deep end. Wondrous Jason Marquis trades, thinking the rest of baseball can’t wait for the privilege of trading their quality ballplayers to the Cubs for used infield rakes, blah blah blah.
If that’s not bad enough, then we have the “technicality” and semantics police. Well fellas, you’ve got your wish for the evening. I’m outta here. I’ll tune back in when there is intelligent and sane baseball talk.
Lou, stop being obstinate...bat Soriano # 6.
Gee, MDBNIU
you will be missed. Now none of us will have any baseball wisdom to learn from…....
by crazymountain on May 8, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
What's a baseball?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 8, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
you're gonna cause a paradox.
Don’t step on any butterflies…
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 8, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Man, it is MAY 8
Marquis isn’t my favorite, I’ve long said he is a headcase that two of the best pitching coaches in the game gave up on. But, talking trades this early? We are two games behind a team that, on paper, shouldn’t be close. We’ve had a rough patch, that’s all. We can easily replace Marquis with one of our own. The worst thing we should have to do is just replace Marquis in the rotation. Gallagher, Hart, Hill all would be suitable replacements with the way Marquis is throwing. Lieber is great out of the pen, and that is a very valuable asset to have but, again, I think we have the arms to replace him in the rotation.
Marquis isnt going anywhere
But I think the Cubs should really consider going after Harden if he stays off the DL for a while. Yes I know hes very liable to get hurt but when he’s healthy, he would be ELITE in the NL
Just remember...
...that the Coliseum is an extreme pitcher’s park. You’re not going to see the same half-run improvement that, say, Lilly saw when he moved over to the NL.
Im not Comparing to Lilly
I would say Harden is on a much higher level than Lilly, When Harden is on his game, he can be untouchable, and i think given his situation we could possibly just get him for the rest of the season, bypass the future injuries and just use him for the 08 run
by fuku-domenation on May 8, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Harden is coming off the DL tomorrow. And Billy Beane is blessed with a crapload of good young pitching as he sits in the middle of his umpteenth rebuilding campaign. I’d dangle Ronny Cedeno and Felix Pie. Doubt that is enough. But I’ll bet the ranch that if Harden is healthy then he definitely will be pitching elsewhere after July 31st.
Lou, stop being obstinate...bat Soriano # 6.
You would
really give up Pie and Cedeno for Harden? We got rid of pretty much the same guy in Mark Prior for nothing. Why would we trade two talented guys like that for a starter who’s unlikely to be healthy? If your going to make a deal for Harden you give up guys like Eric Patterson, Matt Murton and other guys with talent who are spare parts. But there’s no way Beane takes that kind of package for Harden just in case he does get healthy. Thats why I’m pretty sure Harden won’t be traded. Just like Prior wasn’t traded in 06 or even early 2007. Thats because it’s too much of a risk for any team to give up anything of quality for him, and it’s not worth the A’s giving him away for average players.
you doubt that is ENOUGH?
One of the best defensive OFers in the game and a strong SS who has suddenly turned his head around and could be on the verge of becoming a star?
I hope you don’t itemze your taxes, man. Or assess art values.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 9, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I still can't figure out...
... why he has such a… well, “play on words” (sound it out, I’m not writing the sound-alike for this pitcher’s name) for a pitcher who has had a full year in a major league rotation exactly once, four years ago, and is constantly hurt.
As far as I’m concerned, been there, done that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hilarious! And it only took my reading this three times to catch the joke!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Also, check out the THT
article on Harden’s mechanics I posted below. They’re concerned about his wrist being flexed, which apparently is what leads to UCL sprains, which are often precursors to TJ surgery.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
MDBNIU
just what are you smoking? Cedeno and Pie for a perpetually injured pitcher? You must have sustained brain damage somewhere down the line….
by crazymountain on May 9, 2008 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Compare him to "The Employee"
Hes the canadian mark prior, this would be Deja Vu….all over again
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
How can you tell
if he is untouchable? He’s made a total of 13 starts between 2006 and 2007. You can also add his 2 this year before heading to the DL. He’s been on the DL the past 4 years. I can’t seriously see him as the answer to anything.
Yep
Rich Harden, when healthy, is the kind of pitcher you want on the mound in September and hopefully October. When healthy, he can be one of the best pitchers in the game. If healthy, then I’d put together a package that would get Billy Beane’s attention. And I think Jim Hendry will eventually.
Either that or he will go hard after Tim Hudson who Atlanta may be willing to move for a nice package of top prospects.
Lou, stop being obstinate...bat Soriano # 6.
If Marquis can
give us exactly what he gave us last year, which I think he will, Ill be happy.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
Player To Be Named Later
Thats all youre gonna get for a fifth starter with an outrageous contract.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
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