Who stays? Who goes? (trade deadline and end of year)

by fuzzycubfan on Jun 1, 2008 8:54 PM CDT

Before everyone freaks out saying this is only June, I jus twanted to know what people's opinions are.

I think we will lose one of Eyre or Howry. I think Dempster stays at an inflated price. Cendeno will replace Theriot, as much as I hate to say it. Wood will stay but not as closer. I'll sleep on it and post more later. Wife wants me to shut off computer and go to bed.

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Who else will close?

Marmol’s too valuable to get out of those big jams late in games. If they’re gonna lose Eyre or Howry, I hope it’s Howry, I’ve always liked Eyre and they’re running short on lefties. I’m not all for Cdeno replacing Theriot, I think Cedeno’s too valuable from the bench and serves as a nice backup for DeRo and Theriot.

"You know they're not going to lose 162 games." Harry Caray

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 1, 2008 9:06 PM CDT reply actions

You think Woody's going back into the rotation?

Nuh-uh. He’s not that stupid. I suppose he might become a middle-reliever, but then, who closes?

Theriot should be the backup for Cedeno and DeRosa.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jun 1, 2008 9:16 PM CDT reply actions

I think Wood

will make an attempt at being a starter again if he has two, consecutive, injury-free seasons as a reliever—so I agree, he’ll be back next year probably as the closer. First, though, he needs to make it through a full season for the first time in five years.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on Jun 2, 2008 3:43 AM CDT up reply actions

It's possible, I suppose.

If he has a good year as a closer, he’ll be in line for a pretty good payday, and I assume the Cubs would want to sign him to a multiyear contract.

Why overstress yourself as a starter when you can make the same money as a closer?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 2, 2008 4:05 AM CDT up reply actions

Same reason Dempster fought

to get back to the rotation. Those guys love starting games. But like I said, he needs to get through at least two seasons as a reliever first, and getting through just one will be a major achievement for him,

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on Jun 2, 2008 4:09 AM CDT up reply actions

(I'm not counting last year....

...he needs two FULL seasons as a reliever before making any rotation move.)

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on Jun 2, 2008 4:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Oh, I understood what you meant.

The better comp than Dempster is John Smoltz, although Smoltz was healthier in general than Wood has been.

It’s possible. But right now I like Wood as a closer. We do have Marmol in the wings, so maybe a year or two down the road it’d be worth revisiting this.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 2, 2008 4:21 AM CDT up reply actions

Agreed

I too like Wood as a closer. But Wood probably likes Wood as a starter—in a perfect, healthy world in the future.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on Jun 2, 2008 4:23 AM CDT up reply actions

I am afraid that ..

Pie and Murton are probably the most valuable and expendable players we have. I frankly don’t have a lot of confidence in Pie any longer, but he is far too valuable to waste in AAA.

Murton ditto .. he needs a place where he can spread his wings. Think of Mark Grudzielanek and you can see where Murton can be with some regular play time.

I don’t see anyone on the bench right now as being pried loose from Lou’s grasp.

Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!

by cubnational on Jun 1, 2008 9:17 PM CDT reply actions

Matt Murton and Rich Hill should go

Murton because he deserves better, and Hill because he’s one too many “sweeping curve lefties” in the rotation. I think he and Lilly on the same rotation can hamper the performance of both – too much exposure to the same style of pitching in the same rotation.

I think we can also lose Darryl Ward, although we can’t expect much in return for him. I think it’s a given that Edmonds is a one year thing at most.

And keep Theriot as your starting shortstop. He brings something to the table that way too many Cub players have lacked over the years – hustle and enthusiasm. That leaves them with one too many middle infielders and, unfortunately, I think the odd man out is Cedeno. He probably has the most upside of any of them but is not necessarily the best fit for the team. Also, he would fetch the greatest trade value of the bunch…he starts for many other teams.

by MIMuggles on Jun 1, 2008 9:39 PM CDT reply actions

Daryle Ward is likely the best PH in the game.

Losing him would indeed hurt. He should stay, and I think he will. And there’s no need to give up on Hill. Marshall is likely the man out. Theriot and Cedeno should stay, you just reverse their roles; Theriot becomes the resrve IF’er, geting 2-3 starts a week filling in at 2B and SS, maybe more depending on how often Derosa plays OF and 3B.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jun 1, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Good Call...

Yeah. I’m with you in just about every way. The Cubs, obviously, are fine the way they are right now; however, they need to think towards the future. Murton sure aint goin nowhere, so ship him off with maybe patterson or Marshall for a solid draft pick. Also, let Pie prosper in the Majors. This way, we can build our team so its ready for Vitters and Colvin in the future. They cant just stack up on all these prospects and let them waste away in the minors.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by cubs199235 on Jun 1, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Ummmm

you can’t trade draft picks.

by rlpete on Jun 2, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions

You make my head hurt.

D-Ward is a VERY valuable bat off the bench…and if Edmonds starts, we need that LH power. Also, as you said, we can’t get a whole lot in return for him, so why bother?

There is certainly an argument to be made for Theriot as starting SS, but please, oh please do not cite “hustle and enthusiasm” as evidence. Personally, I think Theriot and Cedeno should switch roles because I don’t see Theriot being a long-term solution.

I think Murton should be traded, but I do not know if the Cubs are willing to give up on Hill just yet.

No Edmonds, No Maddux, No Problems.

by Kansas25 on Jun 2, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions

Wood looks more comfortable every day..

Don’t know why you say he won’t be the closer. I can see Eyre leaving but not Howry. He seems to be one of Lou’s “boys”. I hope we keep Pie too. I’d hate to lose him and watch him develop into a solid player somewhere else. If we trade any starters it should be Theriot. His value will never be higher, and he is easily replaceable IMO.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jun 1, 2008 9:43 PM CDT reply actions

Depth or Duplication?

If Soriano or Fukudome is hurt…Murton or Fontenot/Cedeno + DeRosa/Hoffpauir in OF?
If Theriot or DeRosa or Ramirez is hurt…Cedeno
If Lee is hurt…May it never be! I expect few mid-season trades.

I could see the Cubs:
-dealing young pitching, even Hill, for a more reliable veteran starter.
-letting Howry and Eyre go at the end of the year, with Ascanio ready and Cotts healthy
-trading a RH middle infielder and acquiring somebody who bats lefty

I guess no big surprises there.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by cubzfan on Jun 1, 2008 9:51 PM CDT reply actions

Far too early for that speculation, better who is the available starting pitching and what will it take to get him?

Most interesting names:

Front of the rotation;
1) C.C. Sabathia
2) Ben Sheets
3) Brad Penny (has club option)
4) A.J. Burnett (can opt out)

Middle of the rotation
1) Jon Garland
2) Greg Maddux
3) Andy Pettitte

The question you ask is what would it take for the Cubs to secure CC or Sheets or Penny or Burnett? All are teams not feeling they are going to contend.

Trading from strength is how you do it? Strength’s (DeRosa, Theriot can be traded without much loss, though both add a lot character wise and they are starters), Strength’s Howry, Wuertz, both are strengths but with Ascanio and possible Samardz or Ceda they could be traded.
Strength’s Hill or Gallagher they are potential strengths that could be traded especially if one replaces their position.
Prospect strength’s: Marshall, Hart, Patterson, Pie, Veal, Samardz, Ceda, Donaldson, plus others

I think there are some interesting names in the top of the rotation

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jun 1, 2008 10:50 PM CDT reply actions

Joe Blanton is also a FA at the end of this year I believe. The cubs should absolutely try very hard to get one of these five “front of rotation” guys. The one thing this team is missing for the playoffs is a #2 starter (dempster/lilly should be 3/4 on a quality playoff team, not 2/3).

There is so much trade bait that would not really hurt the 2008 cubs if they were gone (murton, pie, cedeno, hill, marshall, gallagher). this team is good to excellent in every category other than #2 starter, which is huge in the playoffs. get one of those 5 guys and the cubs will be not just the team with the best record, but the team best prepared to win the world series. PULL THE TRIGGER.

by GreenLantern411 on Jun 1, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions

We have discussed Blanton here before.

I won’t go into all the details; I will simply suggest you look at his road split, away from the pitcher’s park that the Oakland Mausoleum is.

Then tell me you still want him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 2, 2008 4:06 AM CDT up reply actions

If Cleveland gives up we have

to make a run for big CC…he would look great in Cubbie blue, but the competition would be stiff…probably cost Colvin or Pie, Hill or Gallagher and a least a few more guys…maybe all those names mentioned here….

D-LEE!

by airweino on Jun 2, 2008 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions

Reminds me of another

pitcher we took from Cleveland that came on board that went 16-1. I would take that in a heart beat.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Jun 2, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions

C'mon, would the Brewers seriously give the Cubs Sheets?

Seriously? And would the Cubs want him, given his injury history? And would the Cubs want to give one of our biggest (if not biggest) interdivision rival our prospects?

Nanika Ga Okoru!

Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.

by daver on Jun 2, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions

DeRosa can be traded without loss?

and Fontenot should be our starting second-baseman?

Please telling me you’re kidding.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jun 2, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions

Agreed

and more importantly, we would kill our bench without his versatility. I doubt we could keep Ward for example, because we would need more defensive replacements without the flexibiity DeRosa provides

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jun 2, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions

i will trade jsut about anything from our starting lineup and key

contributors for Sabathia… He and Zambrano are dominant for postseason and have no history of arm problems. Not to mention that even if we trade the farm for Sabathia and we dont resign him we would get two draft picks

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Jun 2, 2008 1:29 AM CDT reply actions

fine - Cleveland needs a third baseman...

how about ARam and Hill for CC and Marte?

you did said “just about anything”...

and btw, those two draft picks are the likely reason that Cleveland WON’T trade CC. They value their fan base and farm system too much to just dump a pending FA in a white flag deal. The only way they trade CC (or any of their pitching) is if they get some big-time offense in return to help them make a run for it this year. Hence, my very facetious ARam offer above. No way do the Cubs even consider that, but that’s what it would take for Shapiro to trade CC.

fyi – one rumor that’s already been floated… CC to Colorado for Holliday. Then again, that’s coming from Woody Paige, so consider the source…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 2, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions

That's absurd.

The Rockies, already down, would be out after giving up their best hitter for a pitcher. Big name pitchers never do well in Denver.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 2, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions

Agreed - like I said, consider the source...

I’m sure our Rocky Mountain Cubs fans can chime in, but I get the distinct impression Woody Paige is their version of Jay Mariotti. Not a stretch to believe seeing as how they both frequent that stupid show on ESPN with the smarmy little host and his little atari playstation console…

If Woody had a sense of humor about his shortcomings as a sportswriter, he’d call his column “Turn The Paige” or something to that effect.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jun 2, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions

As a Rocky Mountain Cub fan....

I totally agree with ballhawk. I can’t speak for all the sports fans around here but, IMHO, Woody Paige is the biggest idiot of all the sportswriters in Denver. I have a friend that knows him personally, and he tells me that Paige is an ah_ in real life as well.

Sunday’s Denver Post had a point/counterpoint set of articles on trading Holliday, with Paige saying trade him, and Mark Kiszla saying: “Without him, they’re nothing.” Kiszla goes on to say: “Only a sucker who thought the Rockies were a better team than the Red Sox might believe Holliday would bring equal value in trade.” Paige responds by saying: “The ownership cannot afford to tie up $40 million in three position players, and hitters can be found for Coors Field. Ask Dante Bichette.”

One place I disagree with ballhawk is that Paige’s article didn’t say Holliday for Sabathia was an actual rumor. It was just Paige’s suggestion. However, Tracy Ringolsby, who is a columnist for the Rocky Mountain News, has previously reported that the Rockies are considering trading Holliday, though he wasn’t specific about whom they’d acquire in return. In any event, I don’t have a lot of respect for the Rockies’ ownership, and I consider it possible just out of sheer stupidity.

Needless to say, I see a lot of Rockies games (my wife and are going to see them next weekend when we can root for them against the evil Brewers). To use an analogy that older Cub fans will be familiar with, Holliday is Billy Williams to Matt Helton’s Ernie Banks. The fan base here would completely turn off the Rockies if they traded Holliday (and they’re close to doing it now anyway – this has always been a Broncos town), unless they got someone like Sabathia, and they’re not getting him.

Then again, I never thought the Cubs would let Billy Williams go, and they did!

IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!

by Cubfansince1957 on Jun 2, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions

duh

REAL Cub fans aren’t thinking about next year!!!!

by billy26 on Jun 2, 2008 1:31 AM CDT reply actions

agreed

who gives a damn about next year right now??? As for THIS year….....if CC Sabathia truly becomes available (doubtful in my mind as the Indians will be in contention)........OMG!...........sell the farm!! With this lineup and bullpen, Z and CC would make us a pretty overwhelming playoff favorite!

by plenz on Jun 2, 2008 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions

WAIT!!

sorry, you guys are talking about this year. and the playoffs already…C’mon Cub fans…Relax!!!! gotta lotta games left…LOTTA GAMES

by billy26 on Jun 2, 2008 1:42 AM CDT reply actions

Disagree with the last couple posts...

We can’t scrap everything for a win now philosophy. That’s what happened to the Yankees and their payroll rocketed and their farm system was depleted…they’ve just recently discovered how valuable it is.

Of course I’d be willing to part with key prospects for Sabathia, but let’s not completely forget our future. The Red Sox are able to win while still developing and playing young talent, and that’s a system we should emulate. Assuming we don’t win the WS (maybe something along the lines of the 03 R Sox) I’d rather not be left with nothing but huge contracts and untradeable pieces.

Build a winning franchise and championships will come…build a single-season winning team and one is setting him or herself up for disappointment.

No Edmonds, No Maddux, No Problems.

by Kansas25 on Jun 2, 2008 8:51 AM CDT reply actions