Indoor/Outdoor Carpeting: Cubs 7, Blue Jays 4
COOPERSTOWN, New York -- After driving through several downpours, and enjoying an entire baseball game despite several of the same in Toronto, I've arrived on the outskirts of Cooperstown, for tomorrow's festivities surrounding the Hall of Fame Game.
I know there's been quite a bit of discussion about tomorrow's events, and I'll have more to say about that in the morning.
For now, I know I shouldn't complain too much. The Cubs won only their third road series of the year by defeating the Blue Jays 7-4 this afternoon, but I do have a complaint, and it has to do not just with the way Lou Piniella managed the pitching staff today, but how all major league managers are managing their too-large staffs in 2008.
There's far too much analysis going on, far too many matchup changes, far too many pitching changes for the sake of changes. This one should have been real simple: Ted Lilly threw very well, but in part because of the five walks he issued, he had gone through his six scoreless, one-hit innings with 110 pitches, and we all knew that he was going to be yanked after that.
The score was 7-0. The Cubs have a long reliever, who could easily be a starter in the major leagues today, Jon Lieber, and he hadn't pitched in five days before today. So Lou, why wasn't Lieber in this game???? Good heavens. Send the guy out there and let him throw three innings. The game would have been dispatched easily, likely with a 7-0 final score, and it probably would have been half an hour shorter, too (and Lieber would have had a well-earned save). Instead, Lou started mucking around with matchups, with mid-inning pitching changes (what would have been wrong with leaving Carlos Marmol in for one more out -- yes, he shouldn't have been in the game in the first place, but one more batter wouldn't have hurt at that point), and putting Kerry Wood into a game in a non-save situation, which is never good for a closer, and wasn't today.
Piniella has been managing long enough to remember the times when managers used to do this as a matter of routine -- use relief pitchers for more than an inning at a time, when they were capable of doing so. This saves the rest of the staff and uses pitchers the way they're suited to being used. But then, I don't think I need to tell you this, as I see you've been discussing this in Kinky Reggae's FanPost all afternoon and evening.
OK, the complaint department is now closed. This team keeps rolling along -- just when you think the offense is stymied, they come out with four or five hits in a row, getting them in bunches, and putting games away. Derrek Lee had two more hits and 3 RBI today and seems to be working his way out of his slump -- he did pretty well at DH and Lou is considering more of this in Tampa, along with perhaps using Geovany Soto, to give him a day off behind the plate while keeping his bat in the lineup. Aramis Ramirez hit his first HR since May 26, and sometimes that's a sign of A-Ram's signature -- a hot streak that could last several weeks.
That's what I like best about this team -- there isn't just one player contributing offensively, and when one or two slump a little bit, the others pick them up. The Cubs have a very balanced offense, not locked in to hitting only HR, or any other type of offense. They're still drawing walks, and hitting doubles, and having long-sequence offenses like today.
The roof started open today but you could see clouds building through the opening and during the third inning, when the Cubs had their first offensive rally, they began to close it, a process that takes about 20 minutes. Lou came out and stalled a while because at one point, the batter was in shadow while the pitcher was still in sunshine, which makes it difficult to hit. He stalled long enough to get the shadow over the mound, at which time it seemed to unnerve Jays starter Jesse Litsch, and the Cubs started smacking the ball all over the yard. After the game I heard it had rained very hard a couple of times -- I'm not necessarily a fan of domed stadiums, but in this case, they do have their use.
Ted Lilly threw fine, despite all the walks, and the only hit he allowed was a scooter just under the glove of a diving Mark DeRosa. I had an upgrade coupon so moved from the 1B-side seat I had the first two days to a seat behind the plate, where I wound up sitting behind a know-it-all Blue Jays Fan, who claimed he was a season ticket holder but really knew very little. He said once the roof was closed it'd "feel like a sauna" inside (wrong; they turned the AC on and it was comfortable) and tried to taunt Lilly by yelling, "Hey, get ready to slug Lou when he comes to take you out! -- a reference to the fight Lilly had with Jays manager John Gibbons two years ago, but the way I recall it, that fight was picked by Gibbons (who has fought with other players, including Shea Hillenbrand when he was with the Jays), not Lilly. All in all, the Jays fans were welcoming and friendly; I saw several more signs for Reed Johnson, including a "WE ♥ REED" sign in right field. I imagine it gave Johnson great satisfaction to have two more hits this afternoon. Jays fans are pretty down on their team and management, judging from comments I heard both at the stadium and on the radio postgame show I heard in the car driving out of town.
This is the first time the Cubs have won a series on artificial turf since August 30-September 1, 2004, at Montreal. Granted, they don't play on turf very often any more -- since there are only three teams left with it (Toronto, Tampa Bay and Minnesota, and the Twins won't have it after 2009), and this road trip will be all on turf and that'll be it for this year. The turf in Toronto looks bad from the stands and my friend and BCB reader bison, who was in town with his family and had his kids on the turf yesterday for "Kids Run The Bases", said it looked even worse from field level. Today, I also met BCB reader John M, who stopped in Toronto from Ireland on his way to a business meeting in Las Vegas; had lunch with him and Jessica (Doggie Stalker) in the Hard Rock at the Rogers Centre -- sorry I missed any of the rest of you who tried to find me over the weekend.
Which was enjoyable, for the city and the victories. On to Tampa, after the detour here in upstate New York. More on the suddenly-controversial Hall of Fame Game in the morning.
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37 comments
Comments
Nice win! Let's hope we see more of the same in Tampa.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 15, 2008 10:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And I completely agree about Aramis. When that ball left I started thinking that might be the first raindrop in the latest Ramirez storm.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 15, 2008 10:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree with you, Al.............
............that Lou’s tinkering is difficult to comprehend, and the avoidance of Jon Lieber is inexplicable.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
by tville on Jun 15, 2008 11:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Al!
Sorry I missed you today – I made the mistake of entering the stadium first and (as far as I was able to tell) that’s a mistake if you want to go to the Hard Rock. Came by your seats a bit before the game, but you must have still been in the Hard Rock.
I was mesmerized by that roof closing. It’s about the most anti-Wrigley thing there is, but it’s quite a show if you’ve never seen it – particularly during the game.
Now, if I can just get “OK, Blue Jays” out of my head.
by 08Cubs on Jun 15, 2008 11:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
After this three game series
I have now heard that six times in the last year, which is six too many. Whoever wrote that atrocity must be laughing that they actually play that every home game.
Los Cachorros!
by Laven on Jun 16, 2008 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Enjoy NY
... and let us know how a slice of pizza compares to the Chicago variety. I know they’re different styles, but it’s nice to try out. If you get the chance I hope your book sales go well.
I’m still trying to understand why you take a gold glove out of the lineup to DH, but as long as Lou keeps penciling in a winning roster who am I to complain? Let’s see what kind of “hero’s welcome” Lou gets on Tuesday.
[FREE ORANGE GUY!]
Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!
by SpudV on Jun 15, 2008 11:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What's an upgrade coupon? Never heard of it...
...You’re allowed to move to a different seat if XYZ happens, I’m assuming…
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Jun 15, 2008 11:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I had tickets from a "flex pack" of season tickets...
... that the coupon came with. That’s why I wasn’t in the original seat I posted, which is why 08Cubs couldn’t find me. Sorry I missed you!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 16, 2008 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm alittlle puzzled
is the fact we call up Eric Patterson, who happens to play second base (and not appear to be butcher he once was), and not give him a start today. I can understand Saturday, due to the fact we were facing Halladay, but Lou, please don’t let the kid sit on the bench and spoil (see Pie, Felix). See if he can play, and if so, let him play and if not see if you can get somebody else up here.
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Kayla Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
by Unique on Jun 16, 2008 12:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You know...
.... I had almost forgotten he was even on the roster.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 16, 2008 6:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Lou is going to monkey around much right now
Winning now is his mantra. Getting rest for his big guns is now priority so I can see Fonty giving DeRosa a day in TB as well. I think the Cubs are simply showcasing Patterson in limited spots to make a trade in July.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jun 16, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering what you'd have to say about the roof closing
it seemed like the most bizarre thing to happen during a game. :-)
All in all, very good series. Now, lets go get Tampa!
Restraining the urge to get giggly....
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jun 16, 2008 12:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Right after our A/Rookie Cubs get the A/Rookie Padres!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 16, 2008 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way,
I kinda feel sorry for Bluebird Banter, the Blue Jays SB Nation blog. The game thread seems like it belonged in an AIM conversation instead of a blog.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 16, 2008 1:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah their game threads were pretty pathetic
Restraining the urge to get giggly....
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jun 16, 2008 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was that all of two people that posted?
by GoCubbies34 on Jun 16, 2008 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
I just read that; I felt like I was eavesdropping on a private conversation.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 16, 2008 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it definitely was weird.
Not nearly as much fun, or as satisfying, as reading the Padres’ game threads when we were there.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 16, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for point out
That Marmol never should have been in the game in the first place. Lou commented that he’s trying to get Marmol “sharp” in short outtings, and this was just a chance to get him that kind of work. Really, Lou? Really?
by AceCubbie on Jun 16, 2008 5:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a pretty lame excuse.
I realize that Marmol won’t pitch again till Tuesday night, but really, that’s not a good reason to have used him yesterday.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 16, 2008 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relievers will be relievers
The bullpen gave-up 4 runs yesterday and they were the only 4 runs givenup. Sometimes the results have an impact on the conclusion that Lou should have gone with a long reliever as opposed to burning the bullpen to the extent that he did.
I heard Bill James complain about pitching changes made at or near the expected end of games; changes made for matchup purposes. He thinks this is nonsense and that it should not be allowed. I sort of agree, but then they shouldn’t allow pinch-hinting or the selection of a pinch-hitter for matchup purposes either. How would all of this be implemented in the the rules?
In Lou’s defense, relief pitchers are, often enough, pitchers who aren’t effective enough to be starting pitchers. The Cubs, for example, have done some real damage late in games this season. So, when you want to win you use relievers in a way that provides the best matchups and overall the best chance of getting out of innings without runs being scored.
I’d say, put a considerable distance between this team and the second place team. Then they can better afford the luxury or resting some of the best players like Marmol.
by AboutTheCubs on Jun 16, 2008 8:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You don't have to implement this in the rules...
... just in the brains of certain managers.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 16, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 16, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'm not looking to deep into Lou's overusage of Marmol
But with the way Howry is pitching, I do think an addition of another setup man maybe in demand. Sherill is probably the best RP available on the trade market, but Ascanio seems to have the potential to do well. He still have some command problems, but I don’t think we will see him unless we trade off Wuertz (or release him).
Bottom line is lets worry about the D Rays and hope we can beat the 4th best team in the majors. Kazmir will a difficult matchup, but like any other pitcher he has a weakness. Roy Halladay was exposed early in the game because the scouting report is that early in the game he pitches around the strike zone more often. The Cubs were aggressive and thus it turned out to be a great day for Cubs hitters.
by Geo4MVP on Jun 16, 2008 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good to meet you Al
Although when I heard that BCB-CON Toronto 2008 was going to be on a Sunday morning, I was kind of expecting a pancake breakfast.
Got to see what may very well be my only Cubs game this year and came out with a win – can’t beat that. (You can, however, do worse. I was 0-1 last year). I’m-a-gonna bulletize my impressions, and focus more on sights and sounds than player performance—you all saw the game or the box score, after all.
Downtown Toronto was fairly teeming with Cub fans.
You can go ¾ the way up the CN tower (about 112 stories) or all the way up (147 stories). If you’re gonna go, go all the way I say. Had a nice view from above of the Rogers Centre opening its roof.
I’ve learned from this site that good tickets can become available on game day at the box office in Wrigley. I decided to test that in Toronto, and I was able to upgrade the good seat I already had (26th row behind home plate) to an unbelievable seat (4 rows behind the Cubs on deck circle), for a cost of a toonie (sp?), i.e. one two-dollar coin Canadian.
I was close enough that you could shout at the hitter and he would definitely hear you. The Jays fan next to me shouted at Vernon Wells every time he stepped into the box to "swing only at strikes, Vernon!"
Late in the game, a young lady ran down the aisle and called out in Spanish to A-Ram in the on deck circle, and when he looked up, he must have liked what he saw because he blushed, smiled and actually answered her, and must have asked her where she was from (because she replied, "Venezuela"). I think it’s pretty rare for a batter on deck to engage with a fan, but the score was 7-0 and A-Ram must have been feeling loose. Also, Lou stuck his head out of the dugout to see who A-Ram was flirting with and cracked a mischievous smile.
Cubs pitching pretty much sucked, but it didn’t matter because the Jays are woeful offensively and because the Cubs hitters have no fear. Lilly threw mostly 88mph fastballs and very few of his slow curves. Eyre, Cotts, Marmol and Wood all looked mortal, none dominant. (Although he shouldn’t have been brought in, there was excitement among Cub fans in the crowd when Marmol walked on the field – that was cool to see. The Jays fan noticed this and looked at his stats, saying, "oh my God, this guy’s a monster….")
Finally, I got to see my favorite player hit a 2-run homer.
"Let's not get too giggly." ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jun 16, 2008 10:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a great story about Aramis.
He’s such a playa.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 16, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm having a hard time imagining him blushing.
I wonder what she said!! LOL
Restraining the urge to get giggly....
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jun 16, 2008 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like
you had a great time. Love the part on Aramis.
by sue369 on Jun 16, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was great
You have to watch out us quiet ones (me and A-Ram!).
"Let's not get too giggly." ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jun 16, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you had a better fight back than me
I extra hour on the ground and another flying in circles near LaGuardia. I have to thank A-Ram
for the 2 run blast as it let me leave about 10 minutes earlier than planned ( not that it really mattered
as customs was easy). My flight was one gate over from one to Chicago which was TEAMING with Cub fans.
Best part of trip was coming in to a COMPLETELY empty airport Friday morning and when the Immigration
guy asked “purpose of my visit” and I said “to see the Cubs” he responded ” you like them that much ?”.
Toronto was a nice town but not really blown away. I hated the dome. It was like seeing a game in
gym. Weird but I can’t argue with the result.
Anyway nice meeting you and you should bet on the Cubs when you are in Vegas.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jun 16, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I'm glad you stayed long enough
for the late rally. My flight leaving was delayed due to thunderstorms about 90 minutes. I didnt get to my hotel in Vegas until about 2a.m. – and is there anywhere else in the world where you would have to wait in line at check-in at that time of the night?
I had the same thing in Immigration: “What brings you to Canada for two days”? Ha ha.
The stadium wasn’t as bad as I feared, although when they closed the dome it did kinda become that much bleaker. Funny thing: I asked why I was able to get such a good seat at the last minute, expecting them to say it was a returned player’s ticket or something. Nope, these are seats they’re TRYING to sell as season tickets, and they hold them back day by day, in case someone buys a package. Blue Jays fans - what are you waiting for! You can be #1 on the season ticket waiting list - in fact, you already are!
Nice to meet you Jessica, I might have to visit the sports book tonight as you suggest. I noticed the runs in Cleveland weren’t all earned, so “MAddux can only pitch good in Petco” argument just got a tiny bit weaker…...
"Let's not get too giggly." ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jun 16, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you know what they say. Ladies can't resist a cockfighter.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 16, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loud sustained applause!!!!
I’m in total agreement with you, Al, on your analysis of Lou’s bullpen use yesterday, and you summarized it perfectly. It makes so much sense, so why don’t managers do what you said? Instead, Wood and Marmol got wasted in a game they should never have played in. Luckily they both get today off.
Lieber can’t be left to rot on the bench for a week and then be expected to come in and pitch well. That was a perfect opportunity for him to get a few easy innings in. Come on Lou – you remember playing for the Yankees in the late 1970s, when guys like Sparky Lyle, Dick Tidrow and Goose Gossage regularly threw two, three or even four innings per relief appearance. Why is it assumed that today’s relievers are incapable of that?
Besides monkeying with Marmol and Wood’s arms, the type of managing Lou exhibited yesterday prolongs games, and has me reaching for the off switch. Who wants to sit through three or four pitching changes in the last few innings of a game? Talk about boring. I sometimes think it’s all a strategy directed from on high to bring about more commercial breaks.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Jun 16, 2008 12:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What the hell
why is Madlock on?
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Kayla Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
by Unique on Jun 16, 2008 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Madlock
What – is this an old-timer’s game? Madlock was a hell of a player for the Cubs in 75 and 76. Wish he hadn’t been traded.
Wasn’t it when Madlock was traded that Cub owner Phil Wrigley said, “No ballplayer is worth $200,000 a year and none ever will be.”
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Jun 16, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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