Uh-Oh: Cubs 4, Rays 5
The Cubs lost 5-4 to the Rays in St. Petersburg, Florida, last night, their second loss in a row to the suddenly-powerful team from Tampa Bay.
I know, I know, that's not what you want to talk about this morning, you just want to hear more about Carlos Zambrano's shoulder problem. The answer is that we don't know anything more right now than we did last night; Z is flying back to Chicago today to have a MRI performed. After that we'll know more. Obviously, if Z misses more than a start or two the Cubs will have to suck it up and other pitchers will have to take up the slack, and/or they'll have to make a deal for pitching help (I'm sure this will start the A. J. Burnett rumors going into high gear).
But until we know more, the sky-is-falling crowd will just have to wait until they declare this season "over". The Cubs still maintain a 3 1/2 game lead over the Cardinals -- you think the Cubs are having a tough time, St. Louis just lost two straight to the woeful Royals -- and they did keep battling last night, just as they did the night before; Geovany Soto's 9th-inning HR off Troy Percival cut the Rays' lead to 5-4 and they did get the tying run on base when Mark DeRosa walked, but that was it. Michael Wuertz did a good job of keeping the game within reach till the 9th.
The real issue, then, was DeRosa's drop of a fly ball in the first inning, allowing an unearned run to score. This wound up the difference in the game. Z actually threw pretty well, except for the third inning when the Rays had four straight hits and five hits in all, scoring four runs. The shoulder problem, possibly in evidence since mid-May when Z "slept wrong", didn't get worse, says Z in a quote from the Paul Sullivan article above, till the last batter he faced:
"There was a funny pitch that I felt something in my arm, and then the last pitch I threw in the game to Hinske, I dropped my arm a lot because I couldn't go back to the top of my arm," Zambrano said.
So we wait. And the Cubs may also need outfield help, because Jim Edmonds has a foot problem. Edmonds, hitting .300/.342/.500 in 70 Cub at-bats, has actually been a useful contributor and -- I can't believe I'm writing this -- if he's out for any length of time, the Cubs would miss his bat.
Wondrous and yet strange season, this is. One thing I like: Lou's decision to bat Kosuke Fukudome leadoff while Alfonso Soriano is out -- despite the fact that the normally patient Dome swung at the first pitch he saw last night and grounded out.
A couple quick notes on my tour of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame yesterday. In addition to entire floors dedicated to special exhibits on the Doors and the Beatles movie "Help", the Rock Hall also has a large current exhibit on baseball music entitled "Take Me Out: Baseball Rocks!" It covers music from all musical eras about baseball, from DeWolf Hopper's early 20th Century rendition of "Casey At The Bat", to a forgettable 1969 song recorded by Ernie Banks called "Teamwork", and a large exhibit focusing on the local team, the Indians, and their 1997 AL Championship team. There's a place where you can listen to various baseball songs; Steve Goodman's "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request" is included (but no "Go Cubs Go").
I was a bit disappointed when going into, or more correctly, attempting to go into, the actual "Hall of Fame", where all the inductees have their signatures etched into glass. It was roped off and closed -- explanation: the 2008 inductees' names are being etched. Lame explanation, IMO: to close this off for a full day (which is what one worker there said), so that someone like me, who is not likely to return to Cleveland any time soon, can't see it, isn't right. They should do this sort of work in overnight hours.
So, I'm back home in Chicago, ready to gear up for the first Cubs/White Sox series beginning tomorrow, but first, the business of salvaging the final game of the Rays series tonight. Do that and the road trip will be split 3-3, which would be fine with me. Game thread will be up around 3:30 this afternoon.
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Glad to hear that you had a good time at the hall....
It will be interesting to see what the MRI shows. Hopefully it’s nothing too big.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Jun 19, 2008 8:23 AM CDT 0 recs
shoot. I tried
to make tags for my first sentence kinda like bold only freakout. Apparently SBNation’s editor tried to apply FREAKOUT to my sentence…..
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on
Jun 19, 2008 8:24 AM CDT
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Well, that's weird.
What did you try to do, exactly?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 19, 2008 8:36 AM CDT
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I was simply trying to be funny, and instead of doing tags b /b
I wanted to do freakout /freakout
(there should be more I realize, but It treats them as tags otherwise)
not a big deal. Just makes me look a lot more panicked than I really am.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on
Jun 19, 2008 8:47 AM CDT
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That one really hurt last night...
...in more ways than one.
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2008 8:23 AM CDT 0 recs
Hopefully
Z’s should is nothing major. That being said, I would love to see the addition of one more strong SP. I think the team is also missing the “spark” that can be provided by Soriano. With all the recent woes, the team is still 3 1/2 ahead of the St.L and that’s a good thing
by sdurst on Jun 19, 2008 8:29 AM CDT 0 recs
Excellent summary.
No panic needed.
Yet.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 19, 2008 8:36 AM CDT
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This year has been a thrill so far
i can now walk proudly among my Red Sox and Yankee fan friends. I share the hope we all have that “this is the year” but it wouldn’t be realistic or the Cubs way if the road to the promised land didn’t have some potholes and detours.
by sdurst on
Jun 19, 2008 8:41 AM CDT
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True.
It’s a 162 game season and rarely does a starting staff make it though unscathed.
by N Oakley on
Jun 19, 2008 8:42 AM CDT
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Althought
we have been scathed already this year with Hill having his issues and being sent down and Lilly’s start to the season. Luckily the depth of our starting rotation is showing with Dempster pitching well and Gallagher doing a good job filling the hole left by Hill. Marquis even is stepping it up (or so it seems).
Even if Z goes down for a while, we have Lieber who can start and be serviceable. Marshall too (if he isn’t still injured). Or, we do have some young pieces that Hendry can use for a trade. I think we will be fine as long as Z is not out for the season.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jun 19, 2008 8:46 AM CDT
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I'm going to ignore your two words.
I’m sure they were supposed to be “too long.”
by N Oakley on
Jun 19, 2008 8:51 AM CDT
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Agreed
until we know more about Z, there is no reason to panic. Hopefully too, Edmonds won’t be out too long. As Al said, his bat has been a pleasant surprise since he joined the Cubs.
Another exciting game that we could have won last night. 17 left on base is way too many. DLee looked lost again at the plate, especially when he swung at three straight sliders in one of his at-bats. He had a good series in Toronto and we really need him to pick it up again with Sori out.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jun 19, 2008 8:42 AM CDT
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he said
he doesnt think he will miss a start…little meds and off he will go. Fairly optimisitc but not realistic
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on
Jun 19, 2008 9:38 AM CDT
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Unfortunately
Big “Z” is not a doctor, keep everything crossed
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on
Jun 19, 2008 9:57 AM CDT
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I think its pretty fortunalte that Z is ot a Doctor
I’d hate to see what he would do to the OR if he lost a patient.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on
Jun 19, 2008 11:27 AM CDT
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Do they drink Gatorade in ORs?
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jun 19, 2008 11:29 AM CDT
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He'd just go after the oxygen tanks.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jun 19, 2008 11:38 AM CDT
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with a hatchet.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 19, 2008 11:39 AM CDT
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"Give me the scalpel, Z. You're not closing him up."
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jun 19, 2008 11:43 AM CDT
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Appears Hendry can't wait for the deadline...
It’s been stated on BCB innumerable times that the team needs another top pitcher, this just increases the urgency and ups the ante of what the organization may be willing to offer for a quality starter.
I like Mark DeRosa, but that play in the first last night was an outright Soriano, wrong path to the ball, took his eye off it and oops. DeRo did everything but the hop. Anyone know how Broussard (sp?) is doing in Iowa?
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 8:38 AM CDT 0 recs
I see
in Josh’s 6/18 minor league wrap Broussard was 2 for 3 with an HR. Any more informaiton than that?
by N Oakley on
Jun 19, 2008 8:40 AM CDT
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Broussard isn't really an outfielder.
He’s an older version of Micah Hoffpauir.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 19, 2008 8:43 AM CDT
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Oh…..... Was he the DH in Texas or did he play OF. I find myself wanting DeRosa back at 2nd and looking for any reasonable solution.
by N Oakley on
Jun 19, 2008 8:48 AM CDT
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He played a little OF...
... but basically he’s a 1B.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 19, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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Funny. I thought signing him made sense as insurance in the OF. I guess he has minimal to no bearing in the Cubs and only fills a spot in Des Moines.
by N Oakley on
Jun 19, 2008 10:04 AM CDT
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DeRo's Defense
has appeared very shaky to me this season. I remember why we all fell in love with him last year, but I’m seeing a lot of odd plays involving him where he doesn’t seem to be full into the play.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jun 19, 2008 8:40 AM CDT
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He hasn't been quite as steady as last year.
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on
Jun 19, 2008 9:03 AM CDT
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Sorry I'll defend DeRosa
Head not in the game? That’s BS and not based in fact.
He’s played 29 games in his career in LF. He’s not an experienced OF’er. Yesterday was also in a dome where the background is probably a lot different than what he has seen before.
That was also his first error of the year in the OF.
by rlpete on
Jun 19, 2008 9:16 AM CDT
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Basegall reference has DeRosa with 119 in RF, 29 in LF and 125 as OF. 273 total games in the outfield at the major league level. He’s not a career OF, but he is experienced. He played in the AL and has played in that dome before. I don’t agree with the head not in the game opinion, but I also believe him to have experience. Fact is, he botched that play in a way that is not in character.
by N Oakley on
Jun 19, 2008 9:30 AM CDT
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He was better in RF last year...
.... than in LF so far this year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 19, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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I agree that he botched it
and I suspect he would agree. My point was more to the comment about being “full into the play”.
However, on his experience, 273 games isn’t a lot especially since it is split between RF and LF. In the minors he was also an infielder. He may have played in the that dome with Texas but it may have been in the infield. He also seems to play RF better than LF IMO.
I’m not disagreeing that he botched it. He did. He misjudged the ball. My point was that he isn’t an outfielder and he can be expected to make plays like this occasionally.
by rlpete on
Jun 19, 2008 9:56 AM CDT
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If you want another outfielder
bring back Pie and rotate the three platoon players through left and center. If we’re going to spend money let’s do it on pitching.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 19, 2008 9:36 AM CDT
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+1
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 19, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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This is the kind of situation
that could bring back Pie – injury plus him hitting well in AAA. I’ve said I don’t think he gets another chance this year and I stand by that – but the door is open a crack here if Edmonds+Reed can’t go today and if Lou’s as irritated with Hoffpauirleuis as I am.
by DGU on
Jun 19, 2008 10:13 AM CDT
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one only hopes
that EVERYONE is as irritated with Hoffpauer as we are.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 19, 2008 10:14 AM CDT
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Well, in Hoffpauir's defense...
...he did go 2 for 4 with a double and two runs scored last night. That’s pretty good for a DH. He was brought up to hit and, to some extent at least, he’s been doing that. I’m not particularly irritated with him—I just see him for what he is: a younger, much less experienced version of DWaryle.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jun 19, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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Agreed...
Despite the fact that I think Hoffpauir is currently playing over his head (a la Fontenot early last year), I have no problem with what he’s done so far. He’s hitting over .400. As long as he plays 1B or DH and keeps hitting like this, I’m fine with him. I don’t think he’ll keep hitting like this, but that’s another matter.
by SouthernCub on
Jun 19, 2008 10:22 AM CDT
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He's no Daryle Ward.
The smarter pitchers already have Micah figured out. I doubt he will play in the majors any other year than this one.
by DGU on
Jun 19, 2008 12:16 PM CDT
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Pie is hitting .225 in Iowa
Maybe it is an opportunity to bring him back but I think he’s still got to “figure it out”. We all agree that the patience is waning on the Felix Experiment but why not give it another crack I suppose. I don’t feel he’s the answer but maybe it’s better to figure that out sooner rather than later and move on if need be.
by cubbot on
Jun 19, 2008 11:26 AM CDT
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that average
is terribly skewed by his bad start down there. Lately, he’s hitting MUCH better, which is what’s expected when a guy reworks his swing.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 19, 2008 11:27 AM CDT
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Glaringly misleading...
Pie is reworking his swing in AAA. That’s not easy to do. At the beginning of his stint, he went 3-40. Since then, he’s gone 30-89, with 8 2B, 1 3B, and 3 HR. That’s a .337 AVG and .551 SLG.
Despite the improvement he’s shown in the last 20-25 games, I’d say it’s a bad idea to call him up right now. As I said, he’s reworking his swing. So rushing him back to the big leagues in the middle of the process may only stunt his growth. And since he’ll be out of options next year, this is the last chance for the team and Pie to get it right.
by SouthernCub on
Jun 19, 2008 12:22 PM CDT
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Our starting pitching has been pretty good lately.
If you loose Z to the 15 day diabled list I still feel pretty good about our starters.
Lilly will have to pitch from the first inning on.( not get taged in the first )
Demp has done more than I ever expeted all year.
JM just coming forward now & will give you apretty good 6 innings.
Gallagher stayed with Burnet throughout last start.
Z hasnt had his stuff for last 4 starts and still pitched well.
Give Z a needed rest to get his body right & finish up the seaso on a healthy note.
by cubbierc on
Jun 19, 2008 12:04 PM CDT
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Tough Loss
That was a tough one last night. The Rays have a great pitching staff (similar to ours), and the last two nights was just two good teams battling it out. We came up short both times, but as long as we salvage this series, we all will feel much better.
Also, does anyone get annoyed when their Sox fan friends start telling us we havent beat any good teams this year?? Its getting to me
by PieFan08 on Jun 19, 2008 8:40 AM CDT 0 recs
I don't have any
Sox fan friends.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 19, 2008 9:36 AM CDT
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What kind of loser has Sox fans for friends?
j/k, j/k…...I get this too sometimes. I tell them we don’t make the schedule; we just play the games.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 19, 2008 9:50 AM CDT
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Cubs still haven't lost 3 in a row this season
Lets make sure it doesn’t happen tonight!
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jun 19, 2008 8:41 AM CDT 0 recs
Seriously, these 2 game losing streaks
can be considered us “reeling”.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jun 19, 2008 8:42 AM CDT
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I believe it's just bad timing with injuries.
There never is a right time, but AL teams carry an extra starting bat, NL teams have bench players. It’s brutal to have an NL team have one of its top three players go down just as they head to the AL parks. Now you have two bench players in the lineup, one in LF and one at DH, where only one should be playing.
by N Oakley on
Jun 19, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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Thankfully, after tonight, we'll only have three road interleague games left.
Before that the Sox and O’s have to play by our rules. Here’s hoping we can beat up on em in the Friendly Confines.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jun 19, 2008 10:36 AM CDT
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If the Sox
are planning on playing Thome at first, which they are likely to do with Konerko out, the games should be good for us.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jun 19, 2008 10:52 AM CDT
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Thome
I’d rather see him at first too. Like you say; good for us, but I think Ozzie is sticking with Swisher at first until Konerko comes back. But who knows..
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 19, 2008 11:13 AM CDT
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LOL
Ozzie and Kenny…what a tag team..
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 19, 2008 11:24 AM CDT
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Calling SWL
We’ve got the Cajun Connection, now we need to see Ozzie and Kenny in Demolition-Sox gear.
by DGU on
Jun 19, 2008 12:17 PM CDT
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I prefer to waste my time on cub related nonsense...
but anyone else should feel free to knock themselves out.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on
Jun 19, 2008 12:20 PM CDT
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I was curious to see
But I’m glad to know even SWL has his limits. I think we all have a very clear picture of those drama queens anyway.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jun 19, 2008 12:23 PM CDT
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Rays are tough
For many years, they were raw and undisciplined. They are finally coming into their own. If only they could do something about their crappy park…
"Baseball is 90% mental -- the other half is physical."
by thekever on
Jun 19, 2008 8:47 AM CDT
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They are doing something
New park is scheduled to Open in 2012
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jun 19, 2008 9:00 AM CDT
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That is really cool looking!
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jun 19, 2008 9:04 AM CDT
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Let's hope the
new one doesn’t look as dark and creepy on TV. There is also something about the way the turf appears to shine that has it look all wierd.
by N Oakley on
Jun 19, 2008 9:04 AM CDT
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And isn't as loud.
I’m grateful I’m only able to watch one of these Tampa games. Those percussionists were annoying as hell. And with the dome the sound just continued to resonate. That combined with the horrendous turf (both in terms of the way it plays and its splotchy appearance) make me quite happy to not have to watch a Rays home game for many, many years.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jun 19, 2008 10:39 AM CDT
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"The state-of-the-art roof can deploy in 6-8 minutes"
wow…that’s quite an engineering feat.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 19, 2008 9:55 AM CDT
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Not A Sure Thing --
There may not be a new stadium. The city council in St. Pete is still discussing all options with Rays’ ownership. If there is some agreement, then a referendum will go on the local ballot. The locals will decide if they want the new park. Indications right now are not real good.
As I mentioned yesterday, NASCAR and football are the big things for people in this part of the country.
Most of the people who show up at the Trop are commuters. You have to drive to get there. So most of them are non-voters in the referendum. Rays ownership will have to convince the locals that this is a good thing for them.
by ceegeewow on
Jun 19, 2008 9:57 AM CDT
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I don't like their chances then..
However, I have heard that the property around the Trop is very valuable, and by selling it, may help finance the new park. Is the public transportation any better where the new park would be?
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 19, 2008 10:02 AM CDT
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Ugh !!
The present proposal is to build the new park along the waterfront. They would tear down the Trop and redevelop that land. The city would get money from the sale and redevelopment.
Unfortunately, the parking adjacent to the new site would be terrible. They are only looking at 5 to 6 thousand spaces. As I stated earlier, almost all of the current fans commute by car. There is no public transportation currently available.
I compare this situation to Nationals park in DC. They only have 5 to 6 K as well for parking but they have the Metro to move people. In DC, the Capitals and the Wizards play downtown with absolutely zero parking but they have the Metro to move people.
St. Pete has nothing and I mean nothing.
They would best be served with remote parking and free bus service.
There are several other sites that have been discussed and some of those offer more hope for the parking situation which I personally think is a really big issue in the whole scheme of things.
by ceegeewow on
Jun 19, 2008 10:35 AM CDT
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Even with more parking..
Or better public transportation, the passion for baseball seems to be missing in the St. Pete area, as well as south Florida. Perhaps Jacksonville would be a better site for professional baseball in Florida. Fast growing area, good demographics, etc.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 19, 2008 11:02 AM CDT
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Dome
I am very happy to see Dome in the lead off spot where he belongs on this team. Lee and Ramirez should have a lot of RBI opportunities with Dome ahead of them in the order


