Uh-Oh: Cubs 4, Rays 5
by Al on Jun 19, 2008 8:17 AM CDT
in Recaps
484 comments
The Cubs lost 5-4 to the Rays in St. Petersburg, Florida, last night, their second loss in a row to the suddenly-powerful team from Tampa Bay.
I know, I know, that's not what you want to talk about this morning, you just want to hear more about Carlos Zambrano's shoulder problem. The answer is that we don't know anything more right now than we did last night; Z is flying back to Chicago today to have a MRI performed. After that we'll know more. Obviously, if Z misses more than a start or two the Cubs will have to suck it up and other pitchers will have to take up the slack, and/or they'll have to make a deal for pitching help (I'm sure this will start the A. J. Burnett rumors going into high gear).
But until we know more, the sky-is-falling crowd will just have to wait until they declare this season "over". The Cubs still maintain a 3 1/2 game lead over the Cardinals -- you think the Cubs are having a tough time, St. Louis just lost two straight to the woeful Royals -- and they did keep battling last night, just as they did the night before; Geovany Soto's 9th-inning HR off Troy Percival cut the Rays' lead to 5-4 and they did get the tying run on base when Mark DeRosa walked, but that was it. Michael Wuertz did a good job of keeping the game within reach till the 9th.
The real issue, then, was DeRosa's drop of a fly ball in the first inning, allowing an unearned run to score. This wound up the difference in the game. Z actually threw pretty well, except for the third inning when the Rays had four straight hits and five hits in all, scoring four runs. The shoulder problem, possibly in evidence since mid-May when Z "slept wrong", didn't get worse, says Z in a quote from the Paul Sullivan article above, till the last batter he faced:
"There was a funny pitch that I felt something in my arm, and then the last pitch I threw in the game to Hinske, I dropped my arm a lot because I couldn't go back to the top of my arm," Zambrano said.
So we wait. And the Cubs may also need outfield help, because Jim Edmonds has a foot problem. Edmonds, hitting .300/.342/.500 in 70 Cub at-bats, has actually been a useful contributor and -- I can't believe I'm writing this -- if he's out for any length of time, the Cubs would miss his bat.
Wondrous and yet strange season, this is. One thing I like: Lou's decision to bat Kosuke Fukudome leadoff while Alfonso Soriano is out -- despite the fact that the normally patient Dome swung at the first pitch he saw last night and grounded out.
A couple quick notes on my tour of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame yesterday. In addition to entire floors dedicated to special exhibits on the Doors and the Beatles movie "Help", the Rock Hall also has a large current exhibit on baseball music entitled "Take Me Out: Baseball Rocks!" It covers music from all musical eras about baseball, from DeWolf Hopper's early 20th Century rendition of "Casey At The Bat", to a forgettable 1969 song recorded by Ernie Banks called "Teamwork", and a large exhibit focusing on the local team, the Indians, and their 1997 AL Championship team. There's a place where you can listen to various baseball songs; Steve Goodman's "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request" is included (but no "Go Cubs Go").
I was a bit disappointed when going into, or more correctly, attempting to go into, the actual "Hall of Fame", where all the inductees have their signatures etched into glass. It was roped off and closed -- explanation: the 2008 inductees' names are being etched. Lame explanation, IMO: to close this off for a full day (which is what one worker there said), so that someone like me, who is not likely to return to Cleveland any time soon, can't see it, isn't right. They should do this sort of work in overnight hours.
So, I'm back home in Chicago, ready to gear up for the first Cubs/White Sox series beginning tomorrow, but first, the business of salvaging the final game of the Rays series tonight. Do that and the road trip will be split 3-3, which would be fine with me. Game thread will be up around 3:30 this afternoon.
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Glad to hear that you had a good time at the hall....
It will be interesting to see what the MRI shows. Hopefully it’s nothing too big.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Jun 19, 2008 8:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
shoot. I tried
to make tags for my first sentence kinda like bold only freakout. Apparently SBNation’s editor tried to apply FREAKOUT to my sentence…..
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Jun 19, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's weird.
What did you try to do, exactly?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 19, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was simply trying to be funny, and instead of doing tags b /b
I wanted to do freakout /freakout
(there should be more I realize, but It treats them as tags otherwise)
not a big deal. Just makes me look a lot more panicked than I really am.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Jun 19, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That one really hurt last night...
...in more ways than one.
by lswaidz on Jun 19, 2008 8:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully
Z’s should is nothing major. That being said, I would love to see the addition of one more strong SP. I think the team is also missing the “spark” that can be provided by Soriano. With all the recent woes, the team is still 3 1/2 ahead of the St.L and that’s a good thing
by sdurst on Jun 19, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent summary.
No panic needed.
Yet.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 19, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year has been a thrill so far
i can now walk proudly among my Red Sox and Yankee fan friends. I share the hope we all have that “this is the year” but it wouldn’t be realistic or the Cubs way if the road to the promised land didn’t have some potholes and detours.
by sdurst on Jun 19, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
It’s a 162 game season and rarely does a starting staff make it though unscathed.
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Althought
we have been scathed already this year with Hill having his issues and being sent down and Lilly’s start to the season. Luckily the depth of our starting rotation is showing with Dempster pitching well and Gallagher doing a good job filling the hole left by Hill. Marquis even is stepping it up (or so it seems).
Even if Z goes down for a while, we have Lieber who can start and be serviceable. Marshall too (if he isn’t still injured). Or, we do have some young pieces that Hendry can use for a trade. I think we will be fine as long as Z is not out for the season.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 19, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to ignore your two words.
I’m sure they were supposed to be “too long.”
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
until we know more about Z, there is no reason to panic. Hopefully too, Edmonds won’t be out too long. As Al said, his bat has been a pleasant surprise since he joined the Cubs.
Another exciting game that we could have won last night. 17 left on base is way too many. DLee looked lost again at the plate, especially when he swung at three straight sliders in one of his at-bats. He had a good series in Toronto and we really need him to pick it up again with Sori out.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 19, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he said
he doesnt think he will miss a start…little meds and off he will go. Fairly optimisitc but not realistic
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on Jun 19, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
Big “Z” is not a doctor, keep everything crossed
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 19, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think its pretty fortunalte that Z is ot a Doctor
I’d hate to see what he would do to the OR if he lost a patient.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Jun 19, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do they drink Gatorade in ORs?
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'd just go after the oxygen tanks.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with a hatchet.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Give me the scalpel, Z. You're not closing him up."
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Appears Hendry can't wait for the deadline...
It’s been stated on BCB innumerable times that the team needs another top pitcher, this just increases the urgency and ups the ante of what the organization may be willing to offer for a quality starter.
I like Mark DeRosa, but that play in the first last night was an outright Soriano, wrong path to the ball, took his eye off it and oops. DeRo did everything but the hop. Anyone know how Broussard (sp?) is doing in Iowa?
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I see
in Josh’s 6/18 minor league wrap Broussard was 2 for 3 with an HR. Any more informaiton than that?
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Broussard isn't really an outfielder.
He’s an older version of Micah Hoffpauir.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 19, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh…..... Was he the DH in Texas or did he play OF. I find myself wanting DeRosa back at 2nd and looking for any reasonable solution.
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He played a little OF...
... but basically he’s a 1B.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 19, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny. I thought signing him made sense as insurance in the OF. I guess he has minimal to no bearing in the Cubs and only fills a spot in Des Moines.
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeRo's Defense
has appeared very shaky to me this season. I remember why we all fell in love with him last year, but I’m seeing a lot of odd plays involving him where he doesn’t seem to be full into the play.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jun 19, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hasn't been quite as steady as last year.
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on Jun 19, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I'll defend DeRosa
Head not in the game? That’s BS and not based in fact.
He’s played 29 games in his career in LF. He’s not an experienced OF’er. Yesterday was also in a dome where the background is probably a lot different than what he has seen before.
That was also his first error of the year in the OF.
by rlpete on Jun 19, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basegall reference has DeRosa with 119 in RF, 29 in LF and 125 as OF. 273 total games in the outfield at the major league level. He’s not a career OF, but he is experienced. He played in the AL and has played in that dome before. I don’t agree with the head not in the game opinion, but I also believe him to have experience. Fact is, he botched that play in a way that is not in character.
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was better in RF last year...
.... than in LF so far this year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 19, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that he botched it
and I suspect he would agree. My point was more to the comment about being “full into the play”.
However, on his experience, 273 games isn’t a lot especially since it is split between RF and LF. In the minors he was also an infielder. He may have played in the that dome with Texas but it may have been in the infield. He also seems to play RF better than LF IMO.
I’m not disagreeing that he botched it. He did. He misjudged the ball. My point was that he isn’t an outfielder and he can be expected to make plays like this occasionally.
by rlpete on Jun 19, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want another outfielder
bring back Pie and rotate the three platoon players through left and center. If we’re going to spend money let’s do it on pitching.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the kind of situation
that could bring back Pie – injury plus him hitting well in AAA. I’ve said I don’t think he gets another chance this year and I stand by that – but the door is open a crack here if Edmonds+Reed can’t go today and if Lou’s as irritated with Hoffpauirleuis as I am.
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one only hopes
that EVERYONE is as irritated with Hoffpauer as we are.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, in Hoffpauir's defense...
...he did go 2 for 4 with a double and two runs scored last night. That’s pretty good for a DH. He was brought up to hit and, to some extent at least, he’s been doing that. I’m not particularly irritated with him—I just see him for what he is: a younger, much less experienced version of DWaryle.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
Despite the fact that I think Hoffpauir is currently playing over his head (a la Fontenot early last year), I have no problem with what he’s done so far. He’s hitting over .400. As long as he plays 1B or DH and keeps hitting like this, I’m fine with him. I don’t think he’ll keep hitting like this, but that’s another matter.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's no Daryle Ward.
The smarter pitchers already have Micah figured out. I doubt he will play in the majors any other year than this one.
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie is hitting .225 in Iowa
Maybe it is an opportunity to bring him back but I think he’s still got to “figure it out”. We all agree that the patience is waning on the Felix Experiment but why not give it another crack I suppose. I don’t feel he’s the answer but maybe it’s better to figure that out sooner rather than later and move on if need be.
by cubbot on Jun 19, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that average
is terribly skewed by his bad start down there. Lately, he’s hitting MUCH better, which is what’s expected when a guy reworks his swing.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glaringly misleading...
Pie is reworking his swing in AAA. That’s not easy to do. At the beginning of his stint, he went 3-40. Since then, he’s gone 30-89, with 8 2B, 1 3B, and 3 HR. That’s a .337 AVG and .551 SLG.
Despite the improvement he’s shown in the last 20-25 games, I’d say it’s a bad idea to call him up right now. As I said, he’s reworking his swing. So rushing him back to the big leagues in the middle of the process may only stunt his growth. And since he’ll be out of options next year, this is the last chance for the team and Pie to get it right.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our starting pitching has been pretty good lately.
If you loose Z to the 15 day diabled list I still feel pretty good about our starters.
Lilly will have to pitch from the first inning on.( not get taged in the first )
Demp has done more than I ever expeted all year.
JM just coming forward now & will give you apretty good 6 innings.
Gallagher stayed with Burnet throughout last start.
Z hasnt had his stuff for last 4 starts and still pitched well.
Give Z a needed rest to get his body right & finish up the seaso on a healthy note.
by cubbierc on Jun 19, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough Loss
That was a tough one last night. The Rays have a great pitching staff (similar to ours), and the last two nights was just two good teams battling it out. We came up short both times, but as long as we salvage this series, we all will feel much better.
Also, does anyone get annoyed when their Sox fan friends start telling us we havent beat any good teams this year?? Its getting to me
by PieFan08 on Jun 19, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't have any
Sox fan friends.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What kind of loser has Sox fans for friends?
j/k, j/k…...I get this too sometimes. I tell them we don’t make the schedule; we just play the games.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs still haven't lost 3 in a row this season
Lets make sure it doesn’t happen tonight!
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jun 19, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, these 2 game losing streaks
can be considered us “reeling”.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jun 19, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe it's just bad timing with injuries.
There never is a right time, but AL teams carry an extra starting bat, NL teams have bench players. It’s brutal to have an NL team have one of its top three players go down just as they head to the AL parks. Now you have two bench players in the lineup, one in LF and one at DH, where only one should be playing.
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thankfully, after tonight, we'll only have three road interleague games left.
Before that the Sox and O’s have to play by our rules. Here’s hoping we can beat up on em in the Friendly Confines.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Sox
are planning on playing Thome at first, which they are likely to do with Konerko out, the games should be good for us.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 19, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thome
I’d rather see him at first too. Like you say; good for us, but I think Ozzie is sticking with Swisher at first until Konerko comes back. But who knows..
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Ozzie and Kenny…what a tag team..
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calling SWL
We’ve got the Cajun Connection, now we need to see Ozzie and Kenny in Demolition-Sox gear.
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer to waste my time on cub related nonsense...
but anyone else should feel free to knock themselves out.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 19, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was curious to see
But I’m glad to know even SWL has his limits. I think we all have a very clear picture of those drama queens anyway.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jun 19, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rays are tough
For many years, they were raw and undisciplined. They are finally coming into their own. If only they could do something about their crappy park…
"Baseball is 90% mental -- the other half is physical."
by thekever on Jun 19, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are doing something
New park is scheduled to Open in 2012
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jun 19, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is really cool looking!
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 19, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope the
new one doesn’t look as dark and creepy on TV. There is also something about the way the turf appears to shine that has it look all wierd.
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And isn't as loud.
I’m grateful I’m only able to watch one of these Tampa games. Those percussionists were annoying as hell. And with the dome the sound just continued to resonate. That combined with the horrendous turf (both in terms of the way it plays and its splotchy appearance) make me quite happy to not have to watch a Rays home game for many, many years.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The state-of-the-art roof can deploy in 6-8 minutes"
wow…that’s quite an engineering feat.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not A Sure Thing --
There may not be a new stadium. The city council in St. Pete is still discussing all options with Rays’ ownership. If there is some agreement, then a referendum will go on the local ballot. The locals will decide if they want the new park. Indications right now are not real good.
As I mentioned yesterday, NASCAR and football are the big things for people in this part of the country.
Most of the people who show up at the Trop are commuters. You have to drive to get there. So most of them are non-voters in the referendum. Rays ownership will have to convince the locals that this is a good thing for them.
by ceegeewow on Jun 19, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like their chances then..
However, I have heard that the property around the Trop is very valuable, and by selling it, may help finance the new park. Is the public transportation any better where the new park would be?
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh !!
The present proposal is to build the new park along the waterfront. They would tear down the Trop and redevelop that land. The city would get money from the sale and redevelopment.
Unfortunately, the parking adjacent to the new site would be terrible. They are only looking at 5 to 6 thousand spaces. As I stated earlier, almost all of the current fans commute by car. There is no public transportation currently available.
I compare this situation to Nationals park in DC. They only have 5 to 6 K as well for parking but they have the Metro to move people. In DC, the Capitals and the Wizards play downtown with absolutely zero parking but they have the Metro to move people.
St. Pete has nothing and I mean nothing.
They would best be served with remote parking and free bus service.
There are several other sites that have been discussed and some of those offer more hope for the parking situation which I personally think is a really big issue in the whole scheme of things.
by ceegeewow on Jun 19, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even with more parking..
Or better public transportation, the passion for baseball seems to be missing in the St. Pete area, as well as south Florida. Perhaps Jacksonville would be a better site for professional baseball in Florida. Fast growing area, good demographics, etc.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome
I am very happy to see Dome in the lead off spot where he belongs on this team. Lee and Ramirez should have a lot of RBI opportunities with Dome ahead of them in the order
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 19, 2008 8:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but
choked on my drink when he swang at the first pitch. I laughed when Len said something like “well, I was going to talk about Dome’s patience at the plate, but nevermind.”
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was a great comment by Len.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 19, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, I disagree about the real issue being DeRosa's error
It definitely hurt, but that wasn’t the turning point. Loading the bases with none out and #2-3-4 coming up and walking away with one run is more of a turning point to me.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
word
we needed to capitalize on that, and we didn’t.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most every game
seems to have several points where if things were to go a bit differently the outcome could be altered. Last night’s game was no exception. Besides DeRosa’s error and the no out-bases loaded situation, what might have happened if Ronny Cedeno had been playing a step closer to first base during the Rays’ fourth inning rally? One of those singles would have been an out. What if Soto’s double had only an inch or more of elevation? That’s both the beauty and the bane of baseball and why every play and every decision is important. Two one-run losses in a row that could have been decidedly different if not for a little bad luck. I just hope Z’s shoulder issue is a minor one. Even with the injuries to Soriano, Edmunds and Ward along with the recurring back spasms of Johnson I think we can go a long way this season.
And so it goes.
by Luigi on Jun 19, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's
finish this road trip 3-3 and head home as Al said. I just wish the Cubs were playing better ball heading into the White Sox series. I know these series aren’t as important as any divisional series but my God I hate listening to my White Sox friends, they never shutup when things are going well for them.
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on Jun 19, 2008 9:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
An win over a Al team is just as important as a win over an NL team.
The goal is to win as many as possible.
I once heard it said you are going to lose 60 games & you are going to win 60 games its what you doi in the other 42 games that make your season.
by cubbierc on Jun 19, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree/heard the 2nd part before but don't agree with the first,
beating the Cardinals is a more important win than the White Sox. It ensures a full game improvement over the team we are contending with to makes the playoffs.
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on Jun 19, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could lose them all to the Cards
All that matters is that final win/loss count at the end of the year.
You win more games by the end of the year you have won your division.
These games dont mean any less thn inter division.
by cubbierc on Jun 19, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Us beating the Cards
directly results in a loss for them which is one of those teams that we have to have a better win/loss than to win the division. I realize we are going to disagree but your telling me if you could choose to either sweep the Blue Jays or the Cards (or any other contending NL Central team) you wouldn’t care which team it was?
Am I taking crazy pills here? I really feel like there is a right and wrong answer to this situation.
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on Jun 19, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
beating the cards creates more distance between us than them
but basically, if you win 90 games, you’re going to win this division. So, I think you’re both right.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, if we dump against the Cards,
both teams win 90, then the Cards win the division…..
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, ok.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just wondering when the Cards are gonna play to the level of their talent?
Maybe they are? Did we miss something>
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They just dropped two in a row to the Royals.
The Royals.
I think (read: hope) they’re finally playing like we thought they would.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't see them
pulling it out. TLR can only do so much before he turns to drink.
Ahem.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are right, cubbierc is wrong,
get used to feeling like you are taking crazy pills
Before Edmonds: 24-16, (.600); With Edmonds: 21-10 (.677)
Edmonds with Cubs: .309 / .356 / .515
by joeschmitt on Jun 19, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I appreciate your level head, Al
You are spot on when you say
But until we know more, the sky-is-falling crowd will just have to wait until they declare this season “over”.
It’s quite understandable to get very nervous at the prospect of a serious Zambrano injury but until we know what’s up theres no use speculating on the worst. This morning’s Mr. Boffo sums up the nervous nellies as such, “Here’s a depressing thought…what if everything that could go wrong, hasn’t gone wrong yet?”
We could speculate on everything that could go wrong forever and get nowhere. I prefer to think that until we hear from the physicians all’s well. I suspect the truth is, as always, somewhere in between.
by Emelie on Jun 19, 2008 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Not only that, for all those saying there is no hope to win the World Series without Zambrano—if he’s the only pitcher that can win for the Cubs in the post-season, then what’s the hope of winning even if he’s healthy?
No reason to panic at this point.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 to both of you.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 19, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this, too.
Say it with me: Injuries are part of the game. We’ve been given cause to worry but no reason to panic.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hear hear..
No need to worry needlessly.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swinging at the first pitch can be a good thing
“despite the fact that the normally patient Dome swung at the first pitch he saw last night and grounded out.”
I think that is taking the idea of patience to an extreme that is unrealistic. Patience at the plate means swinging at strikes not taking lots of pitches. If the first pitch is a strike then he should swing at it. You can’t just take the first pitch all the time in order to be patient or else you will start finding your self down 0-1 in every at bat.
by JonH on Jun 19, 2008 9:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dome
swinging a first pitch is so rare that I think every pitcher in the league thinks he gets a free strike without the concern of being hit. I’m just surprised he missed it! I’m more concerned about D. Lee’s growing tendency to swing at outside corner sliders, many of which are balls. It is beginning to seem like the opposition is picking up on this. I’d like to see him take a few more pitches. If he looks at strike three every now and then I think he’d see a few better pitches to hit.
And so it goes.
by Luigi on Jun 19, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sonnanstine Pounds Strike Zone
Sonnanstine is a control pitcher, so swinging at the first pitch is not such a bad idea. Yes, the pitch should be a strike before swinging at it. Hitters need to be more aggressive against control pitchers than wild pitchers.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Jun 19, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tonight's Lineup?
If Edmonds is indeed out, does that mean Murton in Left, Fukudome in CF, DeRo in RF?
Shields is a right hander, so that probably means The Hoff at DH (or DLee w/ Hoff at 1b), Fontenot at 2b.
Just thinking out loud here.
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ronny at second?
Think he is being show cased right now.
by cubbierc on Jun 19, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would only give us 2 left handed bats in the lineup
i think you gotta give Fontenot the start, unless Lou wants to keep one left handed bat on the bench.
I wonder how Ronny’s doing today, he took a nasty foul ball off his foot, and it was clearly bothering him.
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bad mood
anyone else in one?? d. lee pull your head out and earn ur fricking pay. ive prayed all i can possibly pray this morning for big z. please dear god dont let injuries determine our outcome of the season. onto tonight. go cubbies.
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
by cubsluver22 on Jun 19, 2008 10:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
take a deep breath...it's going to be ok...
try counting to 10
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently your Shift key is in a bad mood, too. It's refusing to do a damn thing.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+!
Dang, my shift’s working overtime to compensate.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be a very short bench tonight...
Johnson’t probably not available until Friday, Edmonds a sore foot, Cedeno with the foul ball off his toe.
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The quicker
that the Cubs get out that crappy, poorly-lit dome with a white roof the better. DeRo- sure he misplayed that ball. Sure, he’s not an experienced outfielder. Let’s keep a few things in mind. One, that dome is a piece of crap, not a good park to hit in, or even play in for that matter. Two, the reason why DeRo was in LF was of course because Sori is out., but also that Murton, and other oufielders, (i.e. Pie), are not able to consistently provide the bat that this line-up needs. We need De-Ro’s bat. So, please stop clamoring for Broussard & Pie to be “given a chance”. If we give them a chance, and they can’t provide the bat that we need, we’re up a creek without a paddle. Were SOL if you know what I mean. This year is not about chances. A friend of mine is going to make a T-shirt with the Cubs logo and the phrase, “Next Year is Not an Option.”
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
how does Pie coming up
lose us DeRosa’s bat? He’d go back to second base, which is where he plays best.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Pie comes up and plays
the regular great defense that he plays, he has to be in the line-up. The Cubs can’t afford to have his bat in the line-up. So I stated it wrong, stop clamoring for Pie or Broussard, I don’t think we can afford to have their bat in the line-up- with or without DeRo’s bat in the line-up as well.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree -- if Pie has got it figured out, his bat is welcome in the lineup
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is
that Pie doesn’t have it figured out. Do you really want Pie in a clutch situation in the Big Leagues, where the situation requires contact, only to have him swing for the fences with that big loopy swing and not even make contact? This is what I’m talking about. If the Cubs want to win it all, (and we know that they do), then they can’t take chances. I don’t care if he is “tearing it up” in AAA, he’s shown that when he’s in the Majors, he can’t hit Major League pitching consistently. We would be better off with someone like Coco Crisp. He doesn’t get soggy in milk either!
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, he's improved quite a bit
take a peek
.333 in the last 10 games, with 4 strikeouts in 36 AB’s—that’s about 70 over a full season.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see...
interesting. I respect your opinion. However, I still don’t want to take a chance that he can’t transfer that to when he is with the big club.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'd rather try that then Crisp
and his .301 OBP
Although, I like the soggy in milk line. You’ve got a point about him being a contact hitter, also. Still, I don’t think Crisp’s production is enough to offset the baggage that he brings.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, that answers my question
you haven’t been paying attention.
Right now, the cubs absolutely DO have to take chances.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respect your opinon,
but I disagree that they need to take chances with a bat in the line-up that we don’t know if he will be able to hit big league pitching or not… He hasn’t figured it out in the big leagues. He always seems to hit in AAA, but he has yet to have the same success with the big leagues…
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's no way to find that out
without actually bringing him back up. I’d say that he’s functionally equivalent to Johnson at the plate, and way better than either Johnson or Edmunds on defense. He’d be an asset.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with most of your points on Pie
But that’s ok. Let’s agree to disagree. No hard feelings. If he does come back up and figure it out, I’ll be happy as a clam, and the first to admit I was wrong.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you compare him to Johnson?
That’s an irrelevant comparison. Johnson is there to face LHP. Compared to LHP, Johnson is the better hitter. And Edmonds has been performing quite well since becoming a Cub.
Unless Edmonds is injured or unless Pie can really turn up his hitting, Pie isn’t nearly the asset he was when we were discussing the .400 OPS version of Edmonds.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I compare him to Johnson because
both were batting about the same, but one was not dismissed.
Edmonds is injured. So is Soriano. Hoffpauer is not an outfielder. Murton appears to have fallen out of favor again. (didn’t take long.) And while I love Mark DeRosa in a man-crush way, he’s just not that great of an outfielder, and when he’s not at second base, our infield suffers.
I don’t want to spend money on another outfielder. Pie could fill the hole we have right now, better than Murton or EPatt.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't know how hurt Edmonds is...
if he goes to the DL, we can have a discussion. Otherwise, you’re crying over spilled milk here and nothing more.
Pie was sent down because he could be sent down. Since that time, we’ve seen Johnson and Edmonds combine for an OPS of around .850 in a platoon situation. Pie isn’t going to do that, at least not yet.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then the question is...
Instead of going out and getting a OF’er that can play good defense, AND has PROVEN that he/they can hit major league pitching, would you rather take a chance that Felix the cat has figured it out? In my opinion it’s not about “filling the hole we have right now”, it’s all about making this team better in every way possible, no matter what the monetary cost.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes.
conditionally. If it can be confirmed that Felix has changed his swing, I think that means Pie has figured it out.
You don’t just throw away top prospects like this.
And Coco Crisp is NOT the answer.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree on Crisp, but not on Pie...
Well, I sort of disagree on Pie. I agree that you don’t throw away top prospects. But I don’t think giving him more time in AAA is throwing him away. In fact, I think that is the best thing for him right now.
But yes, Crisp is certainly not the answer.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coco was a bad example.
We won’t know if Felix can hit in the ML’s until he comes up. He has shown over & over that he can hit at AAA, only to have him come up to the big club- and not be able to transfer his success. Every time he comes up he looks lost at the plate. I don’t want to throw away top prospects either. However, Felix, (as much as I like him), has a proven track record of not being able to hit at the major-league level. He has been touted for at least 3, maybe 4 years now. There will come a time when it’s put up or shut up for Pie. My guess is that he will be gone by the trading deadline to someone, somewhere; who believes they can get Felix to hit. My whole point is that I don’t think it is a smart move to bring him up, to see IF he can help. Felix was sent down when the Cubs got ED, why? Because he just can’t seem to figure it out. Figuring it out, or seeing if he can help or fill-in is not something that should be done at the major league level, especially on this Cubs team, for this season right now. The goal is the WS. This is why I believe that in no way, shape, or form should the Cubs bring up Felix. Not now, not in a week, not in six months. Maybe next year…
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree here...
I don’t think the Cubs have given up on Pie. I’ll be surprised if he’s traded.
I just think they aren’t going to go back to Pie this year. He’s reworking his swing. He seems to be turning the tide after struggling with it at first.
I suspect he’ll get his “put up or shut up” chance next spring.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
they have given up on him either. On the other hand, if they could package him and get an OF’er that has already PROVEN he can hit ML pitching, and maybe a pitcher to boot- I think at this stage the Cubs would be smart to trade him… He is getting dangerously close to being the “great prospect” CPat. This team, this year, can not wait for Felix to figure it out much longer.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're being short-sighted...
This year is not the issue. If Edmonds is really only day-to-day and Soriano is back by the All-Star break then there is no need for another OF.
I would absolutely not trade Pie for another OF. If he was the key piece to getting a top-of-the-rotation starter, then we could have a discussion. But I think trading Pie for an OF is not a good use of resources.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year is not the issue?
This year is most certainly the issue. The stated goal of the Cubs franchise is to get to the WS, and to win the WS. If the Cubs would have left Felix in there to figure it out & not gone out and taken a chance on ED; where do you think they would be? Not in first place in the NL central, not with the best record in baseball. When you are trying to WIN the WS, you don’t take a chance on an unproven commodity, you take the player who has proven he can hit and win at this level. Felix is not this player.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Cubs would have left Felix in there to figure it out & not gone out and taken a chance on ED; where do you think they would be? Not in first place in the NL central, not with the best record in baseball.
Why not? Edmonds has found his stroke, it’s true, but I don’t think he’s the savior or anything.
I will not sacrifice the future for the present. That’s foolish. So is trading away Felix Pie, who will be the rock of the outfield for years to come.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You completely missed my point...
If Edmonds is healthy and Soriano comes back, what good does adding another OF do for this year?
Obviously the goal is to win now. But adding another OF doesn’t seem to address that goal.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither of them are healthy
right now. I am saying that this year the WS is definitely the goal. I don’t want to mortgage the future either. Adding another outfielder is not the issue. Felix is not the answer right now, because he has not proven he can hit in the Majors. Think of the hits that got the Cubs to win the big come-back vs. the Rox. Think of the big homerun, and the sac. fly that ED hit vs. Atlanta to get the Cubs in a position to sweep the Braves. Would you rather have had Felix at the plate trying to figure it out? I maintain that if that is your answer, then you are the one being short-sighted by wanting Felix to succeed , at the expense of the Cubs team.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felix has not had a chance....
to prove he can hit in the Majors.
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felix
has had many chances to prove he can hit in the ML’s. I am saying it is not a good move to bring him back up to see if he can help. Not necessarily trade him, I only said that could be an option, if they could get this or that… Of course we don’t know if Felix could have gotten the big hits that ED has. Would you rather have Felix in that situation, hoping he would get it right and hit that sac. fly, hit that homerun to tie it vs. Atlanta. Felix was sent down because he couldn’t or wouldn’t hit in situations such as those mentioned above. ED was acquired because he has proven he can hit situationally, and he proved his worth as a vet. over Felix who has been up & down the ladder many times in his career, because he has shown over and over he can’t hit consistenly.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a vicious circle
Felix hasn’t proven he can hit in the majors, because he’s in the minors, because he hasn’t proven he can hit in the majors, because he’s in the minors…
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about the hit
that bounced over Edmonds’ head while he ran to the wall and pushed off?
It cuts both ways. Pie will save runs. So far, Edmonds seems to be able to produce them—after a terrible start, which, strangely, he was allowed to work out of, something Pie wan’t given the chance to do.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're being short-sighted...
Yes, they aren’t healthy right now. But Edmonds may be fine in DAYS. And Soriano may be fine in weeks. Trading Pie away for a guy to fill in for a few weeks is a really short-sighted move. Thanks for making my point for me.
As for Pie, who’s to say he wouldn’t have made that sac fly? Or the big HR? That’s off-topic, but we’ll never know what Pie could have done.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not at the expense of the team to develop prospects.
It’s the opposite. It’s at the expense of the team to drop your prospects for injured veterans.
It’s like with buying vaccum cleaners, if you’ll pardon an off-topic analogy. For years we bought cheap vacuum cleaners that kept breaking down. We bought 3 vacuum cleaners in 3 years. Finally we bought a good one that cost less than the other 3 combined and it’s been working for the past half dozen years. Sometimes the cheap and easy answer ends up costing more both in capital and quality.
With prospects, the cost is easy to see – 6 weeks give or take 2 weeks of ugly, ugly hitting. But if you ride it out and show them that you have confidence in their talent, they can end up carrying your team.
Too bad for us the Rays didn’t send Longoria down when he was hitting .222.
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind...
Longoria came up once to the Majors, struggled, then turned it on. Felix came up, struggled. Continued to struggle. Was sent down, hit the crap out of AAA pitching. Then was brought back up, struggled even more. This has gone on for two years. The goal is to win the WS this year. If you want to have a team to compete for the WS year after year, first you have to win a WS. This team this year has almost every piece to win it all… Finally! If we mortgage some of the future now to win it all, not only should the Cubs do it, but they MUST do it.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree, 100%.
the plan is to win—a lot. I’d rather have a team of contenders year after year than winning once every 100 years, even if that once is right now.
I disagree with your entire take on Pie. He’s not been given the chances he needs. He’s not been shown the organization has confidence in him.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've read over all
our exchanges. It’s clear that we don’t agree on Felix. That’s ok, I’m not compelled to convince you. I’m sure you feel the same. I know we both want the Cubs to win it all. Let’s hope that we’re both basking in the glow of a WS win come late October.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jun 19, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not against mortgaging 2009 in most cases.
But what Lou did with Pie was mortgage October and November for April and May.
Longoria was played day in and day out. Pie was played and sat and sat and sat with no rhyme or reason to it.
If we had developed Pie and let him work through his problems while facing regular major league pitching we would have a much better CF than Jim Edmonds, one not so injury prone at this stage of his career. And if Pie hadn’t worked out, Jim Edmonds or someone similar to him would still be out there to get.
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, this year is only a year. The goal
is to have a team to compete year in, year out.
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The caveat is...
when the team is poised to grab the big prize…sometimes…you think short term goals.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 19, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like the Yanks?
Their chain saw juggling act seems to have caught up with them over the last few years….
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to get off topic, but...
we were in first place with the best offense in baseball when Pie was sent down. That’s not the strongest argument you’ve made so far.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally,
I’d trade a good 10-15 years of suckitude for a WS ring this fall. But I would like to see us competitive year after year. I’d much rather win it all first though, at whatever cost.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jun 19, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Did you read the thread? He/she asked where we’d be if we hadn’t demoted Pie – certainly not in first. I say that’s poor logic, since we were in first and scoring more than anybody WITH Pie.
And no, I’m absolutely NOT a Cards fan.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was replying to "trading 10 - 15 years of sucktitude"
it is really hard to tell, all is squished to the right of the page…
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No biggie.....
I know, I will let you finish T…
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does that make me
a Cards fan? I’m simply stating that I would willingly sacrifice the future if I could guarantee we’d win this year. I really doubt I’m alone in that feeling. I’ve waiting 34 years for a ring; many others have waited much longer. I want it. Now. The future be damned. Let’s win it this year, then worry about how to build a perrenial powerhouse.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jun 19, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have waited since 1958.....
and it has been cheapness by Wrigley then the Trib, bad decisions, no plan for a future that has kept this franchise down for so long. Build the future….
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that.
But I don’t want them to NOT make a move this season that could’ve finally gotten us to the promised land because there was a possibility that X player would be beneficial next season. If the time is now, the TribCo or new owners need to spend and manage to win now. The bad decisions and lack of a plan was something we’d seen yearly, both short-term and long-term errors.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jun 19, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs are for sale
which means they WILL spend to win it all, as a WS appearance or, better yet, win will add probably $50 to $100 million to their value as a franchise. Just do NOT blow the future for one year.
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been speaking
hypothetically and playing with absolutes here. All I was trying to say was that, if I had to choose between winning this year and then sucking awhile or being contenders every year but not winning until who-knows-when, I’d choose winning now. That’s all. I agree with the whole “not blowing the future thing,” but I still think any deal/situation needs to be scrutinized closely.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jun 19, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where do I think they would be if they had given Pie a real chance?
They would be in the same place but with an OF who is a better defender, less injury-prone, and able to use his speed in certain base-running situations. When Felix went down he and Longoria had the same batting average – look where Longoria is now. Felix never got a chance; the Cubs are worse off because of it. It’s Lou’s impatient fault. That’s my perspective, and possibly wrong, but it is my perspective.
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Longoria
.249 / .328 / .479 / .807
118 OPS+
And he’s 11 days older than me. /jealous
He’s also about 8 months younger than Felix.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 19, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the day Pie got sent down with his .222 AVG,
Longoria was at:
.222/.319/.404
Since then, he’s hit:
.269/.333/.538
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free Pie!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 19, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where?!
Is there punch, too?!
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's developing...
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 19, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And thern there's the whole
“cooling time” on the windowsill…
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he gets his chance
will it last more than 4 games?
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one can only hope
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coco Crisp IS the answer.....
if the question is: What would be the worst acquisition the Cubs could make this year, or ANY year?
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a number of questions that Coco Crisp is the answer to.
However, none I can think of are flattering in any sense to Mr. Crisp…....
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on the question. How about:
Name a player named after a cereal who is considered an a@@hole by his teammates.
by N Oakley on Jun 19, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about a nice bowl
of Ponson-Os!
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sir Sidney's Aruba Crunch!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 19, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, Steinbrenner wants the NL to come into the 21st century
I guess the Yanks signing Ponson is just punishment for his comments…..
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Police Tested, Judge Approved!"
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 19, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To add to that...
Felix Pie is reworking his swing. And he has to figure it out by spring training of next year. I’d rather he get as comfortable as possible
I would certainly rather not rush Pie back now and gamble that he can help for a few weeks while Edmonds and Soriano get healthy and risk screwing up his confidence even more and hurt his development.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
have you been paying any attention to Pie lately?
he’s actually kind of tearing it up in AAA. If he’s figured out his new swing AND he’s hitting .280-ish, I think that’s a good bat we can use in the lineup. He’s fast, he’s a brilliant fielder, and it takes some of the load off DeRosa and Dome.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big question is -
is he using a new swing or did he figure he’s done with the Cubs and go to the old swing? If there’s a Callis chat anytime soon at ESPN, maybe someone can ask that.
by DGU on Jun 19, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that is a big question, and it’s never been seriously answered.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Botht teams seemed to me to be playing in the same park
The Rays seem not to mind playing there.
Lets fit its been a loooooooooooooog road trip. Getting back to Wrigley will do wonders for em.
by cubbierc on Jun 19, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays
play 81 games there a season, though.
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NEEDCO
What is this? It is ONEDEC on his way back to CEDENO.
Hitting .181 over the past three weeks with 0 RBIS in the past month.
I think he got caught out of position in the first inning yesterday on Crawford’s “double” off his glove.
by gocubsgo22 on Jun 19, 2008 10:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Meh, he went 1 for 2 last night...
...and I saw him turn a pretty sweet double play in the seventh inning. His situation isn’t unlike what Pie’s was—he gets such sporadic playing time, it’s hard to tell just how good or bad he is. I still like his defense over Theriot’s.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cedeno's out of position
I too had a problem with where Cedeno was positioned last night. With lefthanders at the plate, he was playing about 10 feet off of second and two balls were hit right where the second baseman is normally positioned. They could have gotten out of that inning with only 1 run scoring if he’s playing more towards first. Not sure if it’s Ronnie or the coaches who take the blame there.
BTW, this is my first post. Great site. Great posts. Very intelligent fans.
I am an American aquarium drinker...
by HoodooMan on Jun 19, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome aboard.
I like your sig line, too. I’ve been known to assassin down the avenue myself.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
Great, great band. My unexplainable attachment to the city of Chicago grew even stronger when I discovered Wilco.
I am an American aquarium drinker...
by HoodooMan on Jun 19, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wilco
+1
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 19, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe all we need is a shot in the arm
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, Big Z might. Cortisone, that is.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
o tanks! welcum tu r sit.
u wil c dat wi b edikated n kin spel tu. welcum!!!!!
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
from the above post, last night bases jammed, and only get one run. Lee’s AB was horrible.
I am sure Hendry is on the phone as we speak, IF “Z” is out for anytime, Hendry will not sit still.
Teams deal with injuries, Cubs will have to do the same, Angels had a ton at the beginning of the year, The Cards injuries are well documented, just have to suck it up and play ball. The Cubs realize this and will still bust there tail. This season has to much promise for it to wash away, moves will be made if Z goes down.
Hey the Rays are a good team, however they caught the Cubs at the right time, obiviously a sore armed pitcher in Z, no Sori, and a team that never has played in that God awful dome.
My chin is up, adversity builds strength.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 19, 2008 10:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cubs had trouble figuring out the ump
The pre-game said his zone is like a keyhole. Then he started calling the high strike, but at the same time squeezing on the corners. That’s fine, but it seemed pretty inconsistent the whole game (like on consecutive pitches) and finally at the end he said “let’s all go home” after a letter-high curve to Dome. Maybe that’s what they meant by “keyhole”: a circle at the top and a slot below.
by Jerry Mumphrey on Jun 19, 2008 10:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds day to day....
soreness caused mostly by 5 games on the turf…..
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
THIS SEASON IS OVER!!! THIS SEASON IS OVER!!!
(um, no… that would false)
:)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Jun 19, 2008 10:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pardon my ignorance...
...but what is the deal with the TB stadium? It’s a dome with real grass? Or some kind of new ‘synth’ turf that’s not astroturf? What is it?
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Jun 19, 2008 10:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it isn't real grass
looks suspiciously like this stuff:
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This reminds me of a question recently posed to David Bowie:
“Do they smoke grass out in space, Bowie, or do they smoke …astroturf?”
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HIstory of Turf --
Tropicana Field is the only Major League park to feature an artificial surface and all-dirt base paths. It features natural-looking FieldTurf. All of the other parks that currently feature an artificial surface have only dirt cutouts around the bases and at the pitcher’s mound. Only four other artificial turf ballparks have ever featured all-dirt base paths: Houston’s Astrodome (1966-1971); San Francisco’s Candlestick Park in 1971; Pittsburgh’s Three Rivers Stadium in the early ‘70s; and, most recently, St. Louis’ Busch Stadium (1970-1976). Chicago’s Comiskey Park had all-dirt base paths with an artificial turf infield and grass outfield in the early 1970’s. The Rays installed a new FieldTurf in 2007.
by ceegeewow on Jun 19, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool - thanks for the info
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Jun 19, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The field turf is good stuff...
I played on a surface that I think is pretty similar. It has “blades” of grass with shredded pebbles of rubber as the dirt surface for the grass. It’s really forgiving stuff (much better than the older artificial turf) and yet still gives more consistent bounces than grass fields.
In my opinion, if you’re going to play in a dome, you should play on that stuff. It’s much better for the body.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If and I Mean If --
If the news about Z is not good -
Most of the guys in our system have been seen with the Cubs -
Marshall is coming off a leg injury
Hart got hit it the head with a line drive last night
Hill is still struggling with his command
What about Randy Wells? His numbers at Iowa have been pretty good. He moved up through the system fairly quickly. And correct me if I am wrong, the Blue Jays picked him off the roster over the winter in the draft but returned him to the Cubs.
Numbers this year -
6 wins – 2 losses - 2.28 ERA - 55 Innings / 44 Hits - 46 SO/17 BB—1.10 WHIP
Just tossing his name in the hat if the unthinkable happens.
by ceegeewow on Jun 19, 2008 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if Z injury isn't serious
I do expect him to have at the very least a sore shoulder,but I still think putting him on 15 day DL would be the best move for now and later. It’s better if the Cubs rest and heal their players now rather than later.
As for calling up a player, I expect either Sean Marshall or Jon Lieber to spot start. The Cubs will not call up Pie, but there is a small possibility that Andres Torres might be called up.
by Geo4MVP on Jun 19, 2008 11:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
If Torres is called up I will throw up.
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Kayla Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
by Unique on Jun 19, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When do you think we'll get some updated news on Z?
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on Jun 19, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not before mid afternoon at the earliest
Maybe early evening. The articles I’ve read talk about definitive information tomorrow, so maybe not even before then.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 19, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tomorrow, they said Friday
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on Jun 19, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think
we would hear something by early-to-mid afternoon.
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Kayla Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
by Unique on Jun 19, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you calm down!
(Just kiddin’.)
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's alive.
That’s all we can share at this time, but we thank you for your concern.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurts
It hurts more to lose a series to the good teams than it does to the bad teams. When you lose to the bad teams, you’ve just had a bad stretch. When you lose to the good teams, maybe you weren’t as good as you thought. The D-Backs series sweep was so uplifting. Now this is pretty disappointing, but it’s not the end of the world, especially if we get the win tonight.
Also, that 3.5 number is still the most important, not the record. I must admit I fell in love with keeping my eye on “the best record in baseball” and how many games over .500 we were. It’s not about that. It’s about getting into the playoffs healthy and in a position to make noise. Onward.
by bms on Jun 19, 2008 11:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Road Trip Hitting
Fukudome 5-17
Theriot 3-15
DLee 5-17
Rami 5-23
Edmonds 6-14
Soto 4-15
DeRo 2-19
Hoff 4-12
Reed 5-16
Cedeno 2-10
Hank 2-8
Murton 1-5
Fontenot 1-5
EPat 1-3
Let’s break out those bats in a big way tonight, boys!
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think everything has hit us at once.
Losing Soriano, extended road trip, interleague play with its wonky field conditions and constant changing of our order. Normalcy shall return, however. Eventually.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Donald Veal
Veal is starting to do well with the AA Cubs, but I don’ expect him to be called up. He may be called up to the AAA Iowa Cubs and then we can see if he can light up AAA. Veal has NUMBER 2-3 SP potential and if he can maintain strong command on his blazing fastball and sharp slider, then consider him the SP to be called up around August.
by Geo4MVP on Jun 19, 2008 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We just need to
wait and see what the results show for Z. It’s not the end of the season as some would beleive. The same with Edmonds. It seems like there is always someone new to step up and make plays when there is an injury. I do hope Soriano gets back soon but gives himself the right amount of time to heal.
What’s the deal with the Sux bringing their own security for the games this weekend? Is this something all teams do or are they trying to make a scene?
by sue369 on Jun 19, 2008 11:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They do know Barrett's in San Diego, right?
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting. For some reason, this reminded me...
...that, on my Metra train this morning, the conductor announced that no alcholic beverages will be allowed on the trains over the weekend – specifically because of the Cubs-Sox series. I’m waiting to see the contingent of UN peacekeeping forces come rolling in as well.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, the UN is SO effective.....
they couldn’t enforce a drinking ban. They would have to debate amongst themselves until the ban was lifted. Besides, with the UN enforcing the drinking ban, you could just buy your liquor from them, at scalpers prices, of course…..
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oil for booze?
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 19, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al is gonna scold me...but I can't help myself
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 19, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 19, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wunderbar!
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jun 19, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My UN ROFLcopter just took off.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like you have a pattern of premature evacuations.
I’d get that looked at.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It happens to everybody once in awhile...
but if your evacuations last longer than 4 hours…consult your consulate or embassy.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jun 19, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why doesn't the AL step into the 21st Century....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
There, as Brenley dreaded, Steinbrenner is in the NL. I think the AL is the league that needs to step up, actually use grass. Losing Edmonds because he was just being a baseball player. A foot injury attributed to playing on turf should be more of an issue than the NL going to a DH to protect pitchers. (Man, using Steinbrenner’s words makes me want to bathe in bleach!!)
Seriously, I am concerned with Z’s shoulder, if only because mine is so bad. I agree with a 15 day DL for him, we need him the rest of the season, not just for two weeks. And, the umpiring in MLB needs to be addressed. It is dreadful, the last pitch crossed the front shoulder and did look to be outside. To end a game on such a pitch is horrible. Like Brenley, I have given up on the strike zone ever returning. It is horrible when you have to scout umpires and their “strike zones”.
So, we get the .500 road trip tonight and life goes on!!! Go Cubs!!
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
That’s perfect. A Yankee player gets hurt TROTTING and the world is aflutter. Our CFer is hurt playing on fake grass (better than AstroTurf, yes, but fake grass nonetheless) and not a word is said.
To quote Brenly paraphrasing/censoring Zambrano, “I hate the American League.”
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he just strikes out every time
then no need to run the bases.
by Schizo on Jun 19, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adjusting going forward
There are some reasons to look cross-eyed at the success this team has had. We all know what those reasons are. One thing they’ve worked through so far is lack of depth; limiting adjustments to picking up a couple of released OF’s, replacing Rich Hill in the rotation and making a few changes in the bullpen. Adjustments might become increasingly difficult if injuries begin to take their toll. Zambrano loses control in tough situations and so he might not be that difficult to replace temporarily. We can only move on and see what happens.
by AboutTheCubs on Jun 19, 2008 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand why some folks here.....
...will berate Hoffpauir, ( who is hitting substantially better than our starting first baseman). The guy is hitting .400 and is fine at first or DH…admittedly a VERY limited number of slots for a NL team with Lee on the payroll…but the man can hit. He’s failed us in some key RBI situations, but once he relaxes, that will improve.
On the other hand, we have a guy who hit .160 in MLB and until recently was doing the same at AAA and folks act like he should be called up immediately. Maybe he would perform, but the odds are, he won’t. Theriot-same way-hardly has a supporter on this site and yet few players on the squad get tough late innings knocks as often as he does and Cedeno looks increasingly like the Ronny from 2 years ago.
OK-my helmet is on-fire away. :c-)
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 19, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
baseball isn't just hitting.
defense counts too. Hoffpauer cannot compete with Lee on that basis at all.
Pie was hitting better than Johnson at the time he was sent down.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie was hitting better than Johnson?
You may be right, but I sure don’t remember that. Johnson would have had to have been hiiting sub .160 or so for that to be accurate.
i’m fairly aware of the import of defense and I think Lee is the best 1B in baseball—but Hoffpauie is very adequate at 1B glove wise. My point isn’t that Micha should even be on the 25 man, but rather the harbored perceptions for the unrealized potential of people like Pie and Cedeno.
They have the tools-it is obvious-but this game involves WAY more than just the tools—we all know that. Yogi said it and lived it. (“half of this game is 90% mental)
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 19, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's misleading...
Pie was hitting better than Johnson over a brief stretch. However, comparing Pie to Johnson is irrelevant. Johnson is here to face LHP. Against LHP, he has an .872 OPS and .414 OBP this year. Edmonds is here to face RHP. As a Cub, he’s hitting .300/.342/.500 (.842 OPS). So against RHP, we’ve got a guy with an .842 OPS. Against LHP, we’ve got a guy who has an .872 OPS.
When Pie was sent down, he had a .572 OPS. He’s better than those guys defensively, but not by enough to offset the difference in OPS that that combination is providing (unless he dramatically improves at the MLB level).
I really like Pie, and I hope he’s ready to play everyday starting next year. I was against sending him down. But Edmonds has surprised with how he’s bounced back, and given that fact and the fact that Pie is working on his swing still, I think he’s best served in AAA until at least September.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I like the Hoff. He’s a fastball hitter. If he gets that pitch, he creams the ball. For what we’re asking him to do (DH during this stretch, occasional 1B duties, 2nd or 3rd LH pinchhitter), I think he’s doing a helluva job.
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And of course you're not comparing the batting average...
...of a player with 290 ABs this season with a player with 31 ABs. Because we know you, and you wouldn’t do that to us. By the way, Hoffpauir’s not hitting .400, he’s hitting .387. (And, again, that’s in less than 50 ABs.)
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sample size is small--but pretty consistent
he did it for two spring training camps and has hit over .300 in AAA the last couple years as well. Again, he may not be worthy of our 25 man—but for guys to repeatedly dis him and pine for Pie puzzles me.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 19, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not quite accurate...
he hit over .300 last year (as a 27-year-old in his THIRD year in AAA). In 2006, he hit only .267. And for his minor league career, he’s a .280 hitter.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct...
the two bottom lines at baseball reference are both over .300, but one is 2008 and one is 2007.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 19, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pie is a better ballplayer
and deserved more time to show that.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's probably true...
but kind of pointless now. He’s been sent down, he’s reworking his swing, and we have an .850 OPS CF platoon (as long as Edmonds doesn’t have to miss much time).
We can’t go back and change the decision to send him down and change his swing. It’s a sunk cost. The best thing for Pie’s progress at this point is to not rush things.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he gets called up..I hope you're right.
We could use him to be all he can be…I’ll be as surprised as most were about Edmonds if he does though.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 19, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might want to stop citing numbers (see SouthernCub's response)...
...as they don’t seem to be getting you anywhere. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have not dissed Hoffpauir, I simply see him as a player who’s really not worthy of getting particularly excited about. He does appear to be a decent hitter but, beyond that, he seems to be either a DH or a career minor leaguer. Hey, at least he got his cup o’ coffee.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jun 19, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
I’m pleased for Hoffpauir that he’s done well so far. But that doesn’t mean I think he’s a good bet going forward. Remember – Fontenot had a start similar to this when he came up. Nobody is talking about him in glowing terms these days.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree....
...but my point is only that the differeing attitudes toward him and Pie befuddle. Over the last number of years, I’ve lost track of how many young players (mostly pitchers) Cub fans insisted should be given a shot and how many of those didn’t pan out. Hoffpauir is relatively old to be a long term impact player—but the # of folks who belittle him really surprises me.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 19, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is in prospect status...
People insist Pie get a shot because he’s dominated at every level of the minors despite being really young. And he plays a premium position really really well.
Hoffpauir has basically had one good season above the A level and that was at the age of 27. And Hoffpauir is really only a 1B – a position where we have one of our most respected players.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're someone who makes a ton of sense!
Nicely stated….I’m all for Pie getting shots when he begins to dominate again at AAA—he may not have to wait that long in light of recent events.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 19, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'd rather wait on Pie...
I was against sending Pie down, as I felt he wasn’t given a fair shot. But with the changes in his swing and the fact that Edmonds and Johnson are currently providing a pretty productive platoon in CF, there’s not a rush to bring Pie back.
I hope he continues to show the improvements he’s shown the last 20 games or so after a horrific start. And I hope the next time he comes up he’s able to convince Piniella he’s ready. But unless Edmonds is out for extended time or he suddenly returns to San Diego form, AND unless we can’t find a solid, cheap alternative (I don’t think much of Crisp), then I don’t think we should bring Pie back until September (at the earliest).
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's make it Aug 31. If he does well, eligible for post season.....
by crazymountain on Jun 19, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point...
I’d be perfectly okay with that. Put whomever he’d replace as the 25th man on the DL, so that person is eligible too.
by SouthernCub on Jun 19, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just it, though.
We have a much MUCH better 1B already, and no regular need for a DH.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jun 19, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone is berating Hoffpauir,
so much as just not expecting him to substain a particularly high B.A. nor wanting to treat him as more than a very temporary stop-gap since he’s just not that good.
by ohboy on Jun 19, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Compared to DWard's stats...
...he’s an All Star.
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh...
what?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I stutter?
DWard .200/.412/.400 25AB
Hoff .387/.424/.548 31AB
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, have you watched Ward's this year?
Save one big hit, he’s been horrible. Results are all that matters. Hoff has hit better than Ward this year.
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
given Ward's injury
I guess I agree, but if I have to have Hoff or Ward in a clutch pinch-hitting situation, I pick Ward all the way.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I agree....
...but given the situation as it is, right now, he’s filled in pretty nicely for Ward. That’s all I’m saying. Too many people want to talk about his limitations, he’s a lifetime AAAer, but RIGHT NOW, he’s doing well for us.
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Jun 19, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
Yes, his numbers look good.
But has he been clutch for us the way DWaryle has been in the past?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 19, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs