A Marquis Production: Cubs 11, White Sox 7
by Al
on Jun 21, 2008 4:48 PM CDT
in Recaps
193 comments
None of us has ever seen anything like this, none who are living, anyway.
The Cubs are now 31-8 at home. I haven't been able to determine whether that's the best 39-game start by any team (it is, as far as I can tell, for the Cubs) at home, but that translates to a .795 winning percentage.
No team in the history of the National League has ever played at that percentage for a full home season. The closest was the 1975 Cincinnati Reds, who were 64-17 (.790). The Cubs' best record at home is 58-19 (.753), set in 1910 during a 154-game season. Their best record at home in the expansion era, with the 162-game schedule, is 51-29 (.638), set in 1984.
All of these goals are within reach, and as I told Mike today, I have never seen a team -- ANY team, not just the Cubs -- play like the 2008 edition has in its home park. Not even the 2005 White Sox, who won 99 games and won seemingly at will, played this well at home (they actually won more games on the road, 52, than they did at home, 47).
Speaking of the White Sox, the Cubs and Jason Marquis spotted them a 4-1 lead today as the white-hot Jermaine Dye (who has now homered six times in his last six games, a .435 average in those six games with 15 RBI) homered with a man on base in the fourth inning (the second time in the game that Marquis had allowed a two-out, two-run homer). It didn't matter. It never seems to matter to this team, which has come from behind more times than I can remember in home games. The nine-run fourth inning, with four home runs including two by Jim Edmonds, was the Cubs' biggest inning since a ten-run inning against the Cardinals on June 10, 2004; that was the day that the Tomato Inning tradition began among our bleacher group. Today, each time a Cub hit one of those home runs, those in our section took to rubbing the head of a Sox fan sitting among us (Hey, it seemed like the thing to do at the time).
No such thing was necessary today; Edmonds became the third Cub to homer twice in an inning (Sammy Sosa, May 16, 1996 and Mark Bellhorn, August 29, 2002 are the others), and the four homers in an inning also tied a club record, first set May 12, 1930, against the New York Giants and tied on April 27, 2000, at Houston. Incidentally, have a look at who hit those four -- pretty forgettable players, right? Someday, someone might say that about Mike Fontenot, who was one of the four who homered in that inning -- and then Lou yanked him when he had a chance to do something that has only been done once in baseball history, have two players hit two HR in an inning. No sense of history, Lou.
But best of all, the game was the second win in a row against the White Sox, 11-7, which was closer than it had to be due to some further control problems from Carlos Marmol, who walked three in his inning and wild-pitched a run in, and Bob Howry, who got to two outs in the 9th fairly easily and then gave up run-scoring singles to Carlos Quentin and Dye, forcing Lou to summon Kerry Wood to end it.
Looks good, doesn't it?
Photo by David Sameshima
We shouldn't complain too much, I suppose, but this afternoon's pitching performances won't win too many games. Lou said in his postgame news conference that there's nothing physically wrong with Marmol. He seemed annoyed that the very first questions out of the reporters gathered assumed that he was hurt, and I agree with this annoyance. Sometimes pitchers just go through bad stretches, and this is one of those for Marmol; Lou said they'd go look at some video to see what's wrong with him. Howry -- same thing, he just doesn't seem to be able to get past those early-season problems that have plagued him for the last couple of years. Even Marquis, who settled down after that fourth inning, kept giving up hits, and though he struggled through seven innings, he wasn't as sharp as he has been for his last six starts. Incidentally, I was a little bit puzzled at the ruling on Marquis' ground ball in the 7th that Alexei Ramirez knocked down, then threw (apparently) too late to get Marquis. 1B umpire Mike Estabrook made NO ruling, which to me would appear to mean that Marquis never touched first base. When A. J. Pierzynski noticed this, he ran up and tagged Marquis out -- which should have made it a groundout, but Marquis was credited with a single. The only way this is possible is if he DID touch first base and then made the turn to second. Just a curiosity of the rules here; it had no impact on the final score.
As yesterday, it rained for about 45 minutes during batting practice, and I say "during" because the Cubs didn't hit today (say, maybe this "no BP" thing is helping?), but the White Sox did, and never stopped though for a while the rain was falling moderately hard. The ground crew never made a move to cover the field, and it never got all that muddy in the infield. By game time the sun was shining brightly and all had dried off pretty well.
I now say my mea culpas about Jim Edmonds. For all of us who thought he was done, we were wrong. In 25 games as a Cub, Edmonds is now hitting .311/.363/.581 in 74 at-bats, with 4 HR and 16 RBI. That's production that just about any team would be thankful to have from its center fielder; Edmonds is an excellent platoon partner with Reed Johnson, and appears to still be able to play a competent center field. Hats off to Jim Hendry and his scouts for seeing something the rest of us didn't. Perhaps, in this most special of seasons, it is going to take this former bitterest of rivals to show us the way toward our ultimate goal.
I think the primary reason that the Cubs put Carlos Zambrano on the 15-day DL today was to prevent any chance that he might try to talk Lou and the coaching staff into letting him pitch next weekend at the Cell. With the off-day Tuesday he'll miss two starts, probably not more, and Sean Marshall will be recalled to start against the Orioles that day. Frankly, I'd rather see the Cubs put Jon Lieber in that slot (I still don't understand why Lou won't use Lieber in the long relief/spot start role for which he is suited), or simply skip a turn and move everyone else in the rotation back. Perhaps they want to showcase Marshall for a possible upcoming trade. Up to now, I haven't been pressing for a deal for a pitcher, because -- well, with the team winning the way it is, it didn't seem necessary. Now, with Z's status uncertain, looking for a pitcher may seem a new priority (I'm still on the Greg Maddux bandwagon -- he's throwing better this year than he has in a long time, and yes, I am aware his ERA is higher on the road than it is in Petco, and a lot of that is due to the "take one for the team" start in Arizona where he got pounded for nine earned runs).
To that regard, I have learned that the Cubs are working out Freddy Garcia in Mesa, to see if he's recovered well enough from his shoulder surgery a year ago to be useful. Garcia just turned 33, is only a year removed from two pretty good years in the White Sox rotation, and of course, is a familiar face to Lou Piniella, who was his manager in his first four seasons in Seattle. If he's anywhere close to being healthy, I say sign him to a Triple-A contract, ship him to Iowa for a while and see what he can do. It's a no-risk, potentially high-reward, signing.
In the meantime, the Cubs and Ryan Dempster go for the sweep tomorrow. They have won thirteen consecutive home games, their longest such home winning streak since a similar 13-game streak from May 19-June 17, 2001. Keep it going. We are witnessing history in the making.
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First?
Lets go for the brooms tomorrow! Great game today…
by LT on
Jun 21, 2008 4:52 PM CDT
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Al, on tv it appeared that Marquis was called out for
making the turn towards second. It was a weak turn but thats what they called.
by LT on
Jun 21, 2008 4:57 PM CDT
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Understood...
... that’s the only way he could have been credited with a hit. But it does beg the question why Estabrook never made a call, either safe or out. That implied that Marquis never touched first base.
Thanks for clarifying.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 5:04 PM CDT
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It was a dumb call
if you watch a replay of the ump who made the call (I watched it via TiVo numerous times), you can see that the ump never watched Marquis once he passed first base. He took AJ’s word for it that he made the turn towards second. A bad call in that he let AJ make the call for him.
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on
Jun 21, 2008 5:37 PM CDT
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The Ump Did See Marquis...
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
by initram on
Jun 22, 2008 12:24 AM CDT
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Yeah, the Ump was watching him all the way.
Len and Bob said the rule is that, if you make a turn towards 2nd base, you are fair game. However, if you overrun 1st, and take a turn the other way (towards the stands), you are safe and immune from being tagged out.
It looked like the ump didn’t make a safe or out call initially, because it wasn’t a close play at first. He kept his mouth shut, though, because Marquis did make a turn towards 2nd, however tiny it was, and waited to see if someone would tag him before he got to first. It’s just like umps do it if they feel a runner left the base too early on a sacrifice fly.
It still galled me to see AJ making a smart play. I loved it in the 9th when the crowd was chanting “AJ Sucks” and then Howry ko’d him.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on
Jun 22, 2008 12:40 AM CDT
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You said...
... “It looked like the ump didn’t make a safe or out call initially, because it wasn’t a close play at first.”
That’s not right. All umpires are supposed to call all plays, whether they’re close or not. If they make NO call, the assumption is that there has been no play—in this case, the assumption was that Marquis hadn’t touched first base, and he may not have.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 22, 2008 4:26 AM CDT
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I’m sure I’m not the only one who has never been happier to be wrong admitting I was wrong about Edmonds.
Go Cubs
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Jun 21, 2008 5:02 PM CDT
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Agreed
I was sitting on the fence re- Edmonds before today. I now consider myself firmly on the Edmonds bandwagon. He still has the power and she showed it today with two homers to the opposite field. His foot clearly still hurt him thought, so I would look for Reed to get the start tomorrow.
Great game today. An absolute pleasure to watch.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jun 21, 2008 5:22 PM CDT
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It does however feel weird
to have a long time Cardinal hold such a rare Cub record as hitting two home runs in an inning
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jun 21, 2008 5:23 PM CDT
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We'll see.
Johnson really can’t hit RHP and I wouldn’t expect him to be able to hit Vazquez. The game isn’t till tomorrow night and then there’s an off day and another night game on Tuesday.
Expect Edmonds in the lineup again tomorrow.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 5:28 PM CDT
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On the pre-game show,
Lou said that he would try to hold RJ out until Tuesday.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on
Jun 21, 2008 5:54 PM CDT
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RJ Had An Anti-Inflammatory Shot In His Back...
... don’t be surprised when Marshall is called up for Tuesday that E-Patt is NOT sent down, but rather RJ is put on the DL, retro to 6/19. This would make him and Big Z eligible to return on the 4th of July…
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
by initram on
Jun 22, 2008 12:26 AM CDT
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Yikes!
A shot in the back… never a good thing. I really hope to see Reed back asap, this guy’s a ballplayer… I’m a fan.
by TheRamZamDLEE on
Jun 22, 2008 1:06 AM CDT
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He had a herniated disc last season, IIRC.
So this isn’t a new issue for him, per se.
by cwyers on
Jun 22, 2008 3:17 AM CDT
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Definitely not the only one.
I’ve never been so happy to be wrong before.
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 2:27 AM CDT
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Al, I have a request
I want to email about what you have learned about Freddy Garcia. He is working out with the Cubs, and www.mlbtraderumors.com Tim Dierkes is the one who I want to email. Is it OK if I do so and if you want I will cite the source.
by Geo4MVP on
Jun 21, 2008 5:05 PM CDT
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Tim reads BCB.
I imagine he’ll read this post. If you want to drop him a line, go ahead, tell him he can contact me if he wants.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 5:06 PM CDT
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I haven’t seen this noted elsewhere but good news on Daryl Ward who may be back next weekend. Getting him back is key and maybe it wound up being a not too bad thing since we signed Edmonds to replace him.
Go Cubs
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Jun 21, 2008 5:13 PM CDT
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I'm not so sure he's a "key"....
Only if he improves on what he’s accomplished this season. (2-17 as a PH this year).
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on
Jun 21, 2008 5:45 PM CDT
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Hendry Actually Reported...
... that Ward would likely be activated during the O’s series…
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
by initram on
Jun 22, 2008 12:27 AM CDT
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When?
I hadn’t heard this, only that Ward would be activated in time to DH next weekend.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 22, 2008 4:27 AM CDT
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during the game while chatting with Len and Bob
by cubsnlinux on
Jun 22, 2008 7:15 AM CDT
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Thanks for this.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 22, 2008 7:41 AM CDT
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All I can say is
WOW! Never did I think I would see a Cubs team do what they are doing. PLEEEEASE keep it up, this is so much fun but it’s making my summer go by fast!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on
Jun 21, 2008 5:14 PM CDT
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I remain underwhelmed by Howry
has he had a strong outing at all this season?
We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez
by Emelie on
Jun 21, 2008 5:15 PM CDT
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I hope he steps it up
Marmol can’t handle the load and he needs to be more consistent. Otherwise, Hendry would have to acquire another setup man.
by Geo4MVP on
Jun 21, 2008 5:18 PM CDT
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Or maybe try Michael Wuertz.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 5:27 PM CDT
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Wuertz so far
shows promise. I’m nervous about Marmol’s slump… awful two outings. Maybe he believed his own press then overthought? It’s got to be hard to be in the position these guys are in. They’re young, they’re showcased, the pressure is enormous. I don’t envy Lou in deciding how to manage Marmol. So far he knows what to do and far be it for me to second guess. I’ll watch this play out with great interest.
We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez
by Emelie on
Jun 21, 2008 6:03 PM CDT
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Actually, Howry had a streak...
...of 10 outings from mid-May to early June in which he did not give up any earned runs. Then he regressed a bit for three appearances and now has had a couple more scoreless ones, though today he was obviously very ineffective. I still think he’s going to pull it together and have another strong finish. I just wish he’d get there sooner rather than later.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jun 21, 2008 9:12 PM CDT
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He's been solid, as datcub has said
1.53 ERA, 17.1 IP, from 2nd of May to 3rd of June. Pretty good.
"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk
by NittanyCub on
Jun 21, 2008 10:42 PM CDT
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'84 tigers had a 35-5 start overall
both home and road before they cooled off.
by mikeinseattle on
Jun 21, 2008 5:22 PM CDT
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After 75 games...
... the Cubs are 47-28. The ‘84 Tigers were 54-21, seven games better overall. Not sure about their home/road splits at that time, but they were 53-29 overall at home, 51-29 on the road.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 5:27 PM CDT
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Mike and Al, the Tigers won their first 17 road games...
in 1984. During that 35-5 stretch (the likes of which I never saw before or since), the Tigers five losses were all at home. For those us us following them that year, that’s where we believe the pennant was won- winning 17 in a row on the road (including Jack Morris’s no hitter against the White Sox at Comiskey).
Think about how ANY team would love to finish their road record 17 above 500, let alone be there after your first 17 games. Amazing.
So based on that, the Tigers went 34-29 on the road the rest of the way (their first road loss was in fact losing all three games to Seattle in the Kingdome).
Sparky Anderson loves to tell the tale of how fleeting fame is.
Prior to those first three losses in Seattle, the Tigers were to toast of baseball. They were on every publication and saturating TV and radio. Sparky was being interviewed constantly and seemed to be everywhere. One morning he and several of his coaches were sitting in the hotel coffee shop eating breakfast when a man approached Sparky.
Another autograph seeker Sparky thought. The man lived in Cincinnati. He recognized Sparky from his days as the Reds manager. After a brief conversation, the man asked Sparky: "So what are you doing these days?"
Go Green! Go White! GO STATE! (#13031 on the Cubs season ticket waiting list...)
by Zeke on
Jun 21, 2008 6:19 PM CDT
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Thanks for this info.
I remembered the 35-5 start well, but not the 17-0 start on the road. That IS amazing.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 7:18 PM CDT
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Sight of the day...
During that amazing 4th inning, after the Ramirez homer – or maybe it was Edmonds’ second homer; hard to tell – everything in that inning just sort of melded together…
Anyway, I look up at the scoreboard, and about halfway up the NL side, I see a pair of arms and a head sticking out one of the openings , applauding like crazy. It was a beautiful sight to behold….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Jun 21, 2008 5:24 PM CDT
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Were you inside the park today?
In any case, what a visual! Thanks!
We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez
by Emelie on
Jun 21, 2008 6:05 PM CDT
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Woooo Woooooooo!
Let’s keep the blue train rolling, baby!
I agree about Lieber, he deserves another start.
by salparadise23 on
Jun 21, 2008 5:24 PM CDT
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Please no Woooo!
We got enough of that away from here. To quote Al, “Uncool!”
by bubbamike the one and only on
Jun 21, 2008 5:47 PM CDT
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Umpire ruling...
I believe the umpires ruled that Marquis made a slight attempt to go to second. Intentional or not he’s still out. If he felt that Marquis evem made the slightest attempt to round first he’s out.
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on
Jun 21, 2008 5:30 PM CDT
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maybe next time I should read the comments before I post.
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on
Jun 21, 2008 5:31 PM CDT
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Z and Soriano...
Will they have to go to rehab after getting off the DL?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on
Jun 21, 2008 5:44 PM CDT
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Soriano, yes
Big Z, I am not really sure, but I think in Z’s case it would be wise to see if he is REALLY 100 percent.
by Geo4MVP on
Jun 21, 2008 5:52 PM CDT
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Towel Drill!
Larry and the Magic 8-towel will ascertain whether or not Z is good to go…
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on
Jun 21, 2008 6:21 PM CDT
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Towel drill by Z........
I’d say I’d would feel REALLY SORRY for that towel.
by Madison Cub Fan on
Jun 22, 2008 9:34 AM CDT
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Great win.
I give Marquis credit, didn’t have his best stuff, and he gets through 7.
I am sure the Cubs staff will work with Marmol get him squared away. Sometimes bad outings they sick with you. Marmol last time out was brutal so maybe it had a lingering effect.
I was also not a huge fan of the Edmonds signing. He looks good. When he drives the ball to left like he did today, he is on the ball. Better yet second jack off a lefty.
I am on board with giving Freddy a chance, no harm in it at all.
Lets get the sweep tomorrow.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on
Jun 21, 2008 5:51 PM CDT
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Congratulations Cubbies!
The Cubbies have a very powerful offense and that’s been on display the last two days. Without having watched many of the other NL teams, I’d have to say that the Cubbies are the best team in the NL at this point.
The only thing that may hold the Cubbies back is their pitching. I wish Zambrano the best, but if his injury interferes with his performance beyond the announced the 15 day DL stint, then they are in trouble.
Great wins for the Cubbies after getting swept by the DEVIL Rays. Hopefully the Sox can win tomorrow and win next weekends series against the Cubbies.
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 21, 2008 6:11 PM CDT
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hope is a terrible thing to waste.
You should go back to your hobby of being a punch drunk boxing dummy.
Go Cubs, Go!
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on
Jun 21, 2008 6:16 PM CDT
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I lurked a bit on the Sox game thread today.
People were pessimistic even while you guys still had the lead. What’s that all about? Others were saying the season is over.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on
Jun 22, 2008 12:45 AM CDT
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message boards
welcome to internet game threads :) there are people on these boards who probably think the Cubs season is over after the sweep by the Rays.
by jeff_pico on
Jun 22, 2008 1:28 AM CDT
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It's not just message boards though.
You have to believe in your team. Confidence and knowing you can win matter. It matters when it’s close, and carries your team through.
I lurked in the Sox thread too, I was almost sad for the defeatism there—had they been playing anyone but the Cubs I would have been sad about it. ;)
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 4:39 AM CDT
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Thanks for the Good Thoughts
but I’m looking forward to 4 more wins against the Sox. Sorry, dude.
by bubbamike the one and only on
Jun 21, 2008 6:20 PM CDT
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Cubbies
Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies.
Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies.
Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies. Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies Cubbies.
BTW, come June 30, best of luck to the Hitless Wonders.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jun 22, 2008 7:46 AM CDT
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Freddy Garcia
I think Garcia is one of the most underrated pitchers of the past few years. He had an ERA+ 6/9 of his years. Two of those years he was just below 100 and last year was a year marred by injury. That said, I’m not sure that I’d put Garcia on the mound before Lieber this year. I would put Marshall on the mound before both of them. I’m glad Sean’s getting another opportunity and hope he gets to stick with the club in some capacity.
by DGU on
Jun 21, 2008 6:18 PM CDT
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Right Said, Fred
Freddy Garcia was a major contributor to the Sox 2005 World Championship. I do not have his 2006 stats in front of me at the moment, but IIRC, they were good. What I clearly remember though is that in 2006 Garcia’s arm was shot and the success he had was due to his guile and smarts as a pitcher.
If Garcia’s healthy, it would be a worthwhile risk for the Cubbies as Garcia seems to be a very smart pitcher.
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 21, 2008 6:46 PM CDT
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I agree
Garcia has always been known to be a consistent pitcher. I hope he is healthy and if the cubs can catch lightning in a bottle, then there might be no need to trade for a SP. The chances are slim, but might as well try.
by Geo4MVP on
Jun 21, 2008 6:52 PM CDT
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Agreed.
Obviously, Lou Piniella must be behind this as Garcia was a mainstay in his Seattle rotation for several years—including this outstanding performance against the Cubs in Seattle on June 8, 2002.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 7:21 PM CDT
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Mark me down as one vote no.
If i rember right Garcia was busted for possion(in his system?) Icant rember witch.
I dont mind a player using pot just being stupid enough to be caught.
Cubs dont nee the negative media circus this would cause if it happned again.
by cubbierc on
Jun 22, 2008 1:00 PM CDT
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Yeah, don't get me wrong
I’m certainly not going to complain about adding Garcia to our healthy SP depth chart. I just think that given what usually takes to come back from an injury and given how Lieber is looking, I’d take the latter. But if Lieber doesn’t mind pitching every 6th day in the ‘pen and Garcia is healthy, the more the merrier!
by DGU on
Jun 21, 2008 7:42 PM CDT
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If Soto were on my softball team
he’d owe the team a keg for making two outs in an inning!
That’s a keg, Geo!
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on
Jun 21, 2008 6:19 PM CDT
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if he's on your softball team.....
Im coming to one of your games :)
by Madison Cub Fan on
Jun 21, 2008 7:10 PM CDT
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go cubbies
lmao @ dye being “white-hot” ! With every passing day i’m amzed by how well soto handles a pitching staff. Kudos to Aram for being a wise veteran calling timeout and going to the mound to give a struggling pitcher a breather. this team seems to click together perfectly. Onto tomorrow when hopefully we get the 2008 dempstar and our offense comes to the park with the same bats they had today. Their whipping sticks as I like to call them.
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
by cubsluver22 on
Jun 21, 2008 6:20 PM CDT
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My Mea Culpa
I chastised Fontenot for hitting “too many fly balls” in the at-bat prior to his HR. As Lou said, the only reason I can’t kick myself is because my foot’s not long enough.
I also hope Marmol gets over his wildness in short order. Didn’t see the end of the game so can you guys tell if he was missing with the slider again, as he was doing on Thursday night?
by CaliCub on
Jun 21, 2008 6:44 PM CDT
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Marmol
Marmol was missing with pretty much everything. Its not pretty for him right now. We can only hope he turns it around, without him the bullpen is alot more average than when he is lights out.
by jeff_pico on
Jun 21, 2008 7:11 PM CDT
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it's time
for an extended rest for marmol I firmly believe. He will throw til his arm falls off and give us 110% but he’s exhausted i think and overpitching to make up for it. lou give the kid a break please because he damn sure wont say no to the ball. he will take it on his dying bed and go out there and bring it. thats a testament to this team. god i’m pumped. this team has a fight I’ve never witnessed and will do what there told when their told.
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
by cubsluver22 on
Jun 21, 2008 7:16 PM CDT
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prior to the wipe-out in Tampa
he hadn’t pitched in four days.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 21, 2008 7:20 PM CDT
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maybe marmol
is a guy who needs to pitch consistently to stay sharp?...maybe thats why lou tends to use him a lot
by cubsmania on
Jun 21, 2008 11:52 PM CDT
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Ding! We have a winner!
I’ve never seen him look worse than when he was rested.
And he says he feels fine, so I say run with it.
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 2:38 AM CDT
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well, that's what I'm thinking
we’re consistently told that we don’t know enough about Marmol to be able to tell if he needs more rest, but that also means we don’t know enough about Marmol to be able to tell if he’s been TOO rested.
The guy constantly asks to play. I think there’s a reason for that.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 22, 2008 10:35 AM CDT
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I'll never knock a home run...
and will be the 1st to complain when I’m not satisfied the hitters are doing everything they can about “scoring”.....BUT…...the fly balls that are going out from now til August won’t in September and October….A-Ram said it (someting to that effect) pretty well today and I can’t remember where I read it.
The good news is that will help Lily and Marquis (late in the season)...and the Cubs played pretty well at home in April and May (cooler NE wind months)
Just keep hoping for a dominant offense and that the pitching “gets it together”...
btw…anyone have any stats about the Cubs’ reccord “over the last 162 games”?
The best defense is a good offense
by kcjones on
Jun 22, 2008 12:09 AM CDT
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Supposedly the second best in baseball over that period of time.
I’m not sure whose is better, but I think it was mentioned over on the Eastern Sports Programming Network.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on
Jun 22, 2008 12:47 AM CDT
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Who's better?
BTW…I’ve always thought it was Eastern Seaboad Programming Network
The best defense is a good offense
by kcjones on
Jun 26, 2008 12:31 AM CDT
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When Fontenot hit that HR, I must admit the first thing that popped into my head was sneaky power
and I started to giggle.
by Madison Cub Fan on
Jun 22, 2008 9:43 AM CDT
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I was sitting by 1st base
and Marquis never made a move towards second. He turned towards the right. The umpire wasn’t even watching him. The umpire let AJ talk him into it. Just like he got the impire to change his call in 2005 against Anaheim. Smart player.
by Rick B on
Jun 21, 2008 6:46 PM CDT
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Yep.
As I said above, I still can’t understand why the umpires let him get away with it. Important to note that the one in 2005 was Doug Eddings, fairly inexperienced at the time, and today’s 1B umpire was Mike Estabrook, a rookie replacement umpire.
We can all dislike AJ, but he is a SMART player.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 7:23 PM CDT
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Best home record - 1961 Yankees
The 61 Yankees – the Mantle/Maris team – own the record for best home record of all time, with a 65-16 record, winning percentage of .802. That team started out 30-9 at home, so the Cubs are one game up on them.
"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945
by flyingdonut on
Jun 21, 2008 7:07 PM CDT
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Thanks.
I’m not sure why that team didn’t show up on my search results. The ‘61 Yankees won 109 games, which is the third-most wins in the expansion era, and they won the WS in 5 games over the Reds.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 7:26 PM CDT
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I just realized why that Yankee team didn't show up in my results.
I had accidentally clicked “NL Only”.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 7:28 PM CDT
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I didn't go further back
There may be some teams with a higher percentage in the pre-1961 expansion era, but that “65” is the highest straight number of wins at home in history. Just for a lark, I looked at the 1906 Cubs, figuring that might be up there. That team was 60-15 (.800) on the road, which is the all time record.
"Don't worry, Joey. We'll go next year. They're in the World Series all the time" ---My grandfather to my sick father, October 10, 1945
by flyingdonut on
Jun 21, 2008 7:56 PM CDT
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I'm going to edit the post...
... to make it clear that the ‘75 Reds hold the NL record, not the ML record.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 8:17 PM CDT
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Wow.
Nice. Home winning percentage of .802. That’s straight up lights out at home, if you wind up with home field advantage that’s money in the post season.
I might actually care about the All-Star game this year.
Al, thanks for the info on this. :)
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 2:42 AM CDT
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Ozzie bulletin board stuff for Edmonds
"He just had a good day. I’m not going to promote the guy who is hitting .218 (actually .238), " White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said of Edmonds."I’d rather have him out there than (injured Alfonso) Soriano. He’s a veteran player and he knows what he’s doing … Hopefully he doesn’t have another game like that against us. Jim doesn’t scare me. I’ll pitch to him anytime."
I hope Edmonds has a big day tomorrow, just to sock it to Ozzie :)
by jeff_pico on
Jun 21, 2008 7:15 PM CDT
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I did not see (fortunately) yesterday or todays games. On my way home I heard on sportsblab that Ozzie ripped Edmonds. I expected something terrible. Then I read an article with the above quote and thought, “BFD!” Ozzie’s right!
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 21, 2008 7:49 PM CDT
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No not a big deal
but still kind of stupid. If you and Ozzie think it’s relevant, you should check Jedmonds’ numbers as a Cub this year.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jun 22, 2008 7:54 AM CDT
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Does Ozzie know
that, in Lou’s perfect world, Sori and Edmonds would both be in the lineup against a RHP? It isn’t an either/or proposition.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on
Jun 21, 2008 11:41 PM CDT
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Obviously Ozzie isn't paying attention to little details like, you know, history.
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 2:43 AM CDT
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I wasn't on the site for the game
so here it is:
And I’d just like to remind everyone again that Blue-Mike wanted Lee to have “several days of rest” after Tampa.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 21, 2008 7:21 PM CDT
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Blue Mike
Why is Blue Mike always so silent win the Cubs win? I think the guys a classic troll. He has a knee jerk reaction to every Cubs fan. I think Rich Harden may be the only player in baseball he has actual positive thoughts about.
by jeff_pico on
Jun 21, 2008 7:26 PM CDT
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He seems to like AJ Burnett too.
Guess he’s got a thing for injury-prone pitchers.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 7:27 PM CDT
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I think it's even worse than that.
He LIKES it when the Cubs lose. He’s that kind of “fan”—he follows the team, and secretly is filled with glee when the team doesn’t do things he suggests, and then dumps it.
He used Marmol’s blow-out to say that the Cubs needed more starting pitching. Hello? Marmol is in the pen.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 21, 2008 8:21 PM CDT
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Maybe he receives so lil attention in his real life that here is the only place he can get it
So he post bizarre things to get attention
by Madison Cub Fan on
Jun 21, 2008 8:25 PM CDT
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I know Houston probably doesn't matter in this year's race
but it’s nice to see them about to blow a lead to the Rays in the bottom of the 9th.
by zevkalman on
Jun 21, 2008 7:56 PM CDT
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Nice start to my day
to wake up and read about this win.
Im enjoying this year from afar so much, I just hope its got the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
No coverage of the first two games, but we do get tomorrows game live on ESPN, so lets sweep it.
"Drink,Drugs and shagging models...the rest I wasted." George Best on where his millions went
by Aussie Cub on
Jun 21, 2008 8:03 PM CDT
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We were all hoping that we would be able
to put a little distance between us and the Cards, but I guess no one told the Red Sox. Dice K lasts only 1 inning, and Cards roll.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on
Jun 21, 2008 8:21 PM CDT
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again?
wow.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 21, 2008 8:25 PM CDT
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Dice K back from DL, couldn't find the strike zone. Left with sacks loaded in 2nd, nobody out
so the Redbirds stay with us, win for win. Still waiting for LaRussa’s voodoo to vanish. LOL
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on
Jun 21, 2008 8:42 PM CDT
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Step for step...
... for as well as the Cubbies have played this season, you have to respect what the Cardinals have done, stayed hot on the Cubbies heels.
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 21, 2008 8:34 PM CDT
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I still don't know how they are doing it.
With that pitching staff?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 8:45 PM CDT
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Tape and mirrors, but...
... it’s worked so far for them.
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 21, 2008 8:52 PM CDT
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they can't possibly
keep it up. Can they? There’s three more months of baseball…
Maybe this division is decided in a few weeks when we play St. Louis.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 21, 2008 8:53 PM CDT
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I can't stand LaRussa
but the job he and dave Duncan have done so far this year is nothing short of amazing.
I have a feeling that the Cards are going to stay with us all season long which should make for some exciting baseball (providing we end up on top),
by bluekoolaide on
Jun 21, 2008 8:54 PM CDT
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I heard that Zambrano
Could easily only miss one start but the Cubs said no so he could be fully rested preventing a season ending injury.
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on
Jun 21, 2008 8:28 PM CDT
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I Think They Want Him To Work On His...
...hitting. ;-)
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
by initram on
Jun 22, 2008 12:31 AM CDT
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Brewers lead Baltimore 3-2 after 8-2/3 innings
Then again, the Orioles are lame. They even have Freddie Bynum (BA less than .200) playing SS tonight. Does everyone remember Freddie?
by zevkalman on
Jun 21, 2008 8:41 PM CDT
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Yep. Brew Crew wins with game-tying run left on 2nd.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on
Jun 21, 2008 8:44 PM CDT
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Freddie is their STARTING SS.
That’s how bad the Orioles are.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 21, 2008 8:45 PM CDT
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A starter with a BA under .200?
Yikes. How are they even close to surviving in the AL?
by halfblindcubbiegirl on
Jun 21, 2008 9:48 PM CDT
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They've got a record over .500
Markakis and Luke Scott and having great years but. . .
It’s mostly smoke and mirrors. They aren’t very good.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on
Jun 22, 2008 1:31 AM CDT
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According to MLBTR
Bynum was DFA’d today. Alex Cintron is their starting SS.
Link.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on
Jun 22, 2008 1:59 PM CDT
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The only surprise:
... that it took them this long to figure out that Bynum can’t play.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 22, 2008 2:08 PM CDT
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StL
IMO it’s an organizational thing. They’re like the Braves of the 90s but without the bumper crop farm system. They teach and instruct the proper fundamentals (especially defense), and they can identify a player’s strengths and build from that. Was convinced Boston would sweep and I was dead wrong.
It’s their weasel of a manager, their obnoxious broadcast crew, and their smug, smarmy fans that ruin it for me.
by CaliCub on
Jun 21, 2008 9:27 PM CDT
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It is organizational.
Thee is no other explanation. They get it done, and I have to respect that—but I definitely don’t have to like it for all of the reasons you highlighted above. ;)
I was cheering for Boston a lot this week. It felt odd.
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 2:47 AM CDT
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Re: Maddux
With all due respect to BCB I don’t share the same enthusiasm for grabbing Maddux because, frankly, I don’t get it. Maddux, at this point in his career, is a FIVE INNING PITCHER. That is the last thing this bullpen needs. Who is he replacing in the rotation exactly? Is it Marquis? If so, then perhaps he’d shave a half-run a game off of the ERA from that slot but still leave the bullpen on the hook for 3-4 innings every time he steps to the mound.
I have no interest in acquiring a 5 inning pitcher
by BeltwayCubsFan on
Jun 21, 2008 9:36 PM CDT
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+1
And those 5 innings better be at Petco, because on the road his stats are not good at all. He’s in the best possible park he could be in right now. I don’t want to see him come here and get lit up all the time. Wrigley Field doesn’t suit him at all. I’d prefer to remember the great years he had here at the beginning of his career.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 21, 2008 11:00 PM CDT
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Let's once again look at those road stats.
He threw one game at Arizona (where he has NEVER pitched well) and had to stay in for seven innings to take a pounding, because the Padres had played a 22-inning game the day before.
He also got pounded at Wrigley Field—now, you say it doesn’t suit him to pitch at Wrigley, but he was facing the Cubs’ offense that day, a good offense that he wouldn’t have to face if he became a Cub.
His ERA in his six other road starts is 3.00. Now how does it look?
As I have written before, the acquisition of Maddux is in part sentiment, but he also gives value beyond what you can measure on a stat sheet. Just wait till AFTER the Cubs go to Arizona and you should be just fine—and that’s about a week before the trading deadline.
Perfect timing if you ask me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 22, 2008 4:32 AM CDT
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I totally agree with this.
I also think that maddux gives you something intangible. He’s a wonderful presence in the dugout and a mentor for some young arms (Gallagher specifically comes to mind). They call him the Professor for a reason—Professors are thoughtful and absolute experts in their field. They also have an ability to teach.
Face it, Sabathia’s price is too high. I’m not down with giving up Soto or even Hoffpauier. Maddux gives you a great arm and great presence to boot. It also just feels right.
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 4:37 AM CDT
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There's no pitcher in the league we give up Soto for...
Whoever said you couldn't mix business and pleasure never owned a putt putt course. --Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on
Jun 22, 2008 8:28 AM CDT
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Great Big +1
We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez
by Emelie on
Jun 22, 2008 9:22 AM CDT
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+2001
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on
Jun 22, 2008 2:56 PM CDT
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"I’m not down with giving up ... even Hoffpauier"
Please be kidding.
by ohboy on
Jun 22, 2008 8:43 AM CDT
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Im on the Maddux bandwagon.
Some of it is sentinal but I do believe he could help the pitching since he is a proven winner he could help the pitching staff, not to mention I’d be happy to have one of the SP later in the order average 6 innings.
by Madison Cub Fan on
Jun 22, 2008 9:50 AM CDT
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This line of thinking doesn't make sense
You think Maddux would be a good addition to this club. Fine. But your argument doesn’t make any sense.
1) You can’t just take off the stats from these games like that.
Let’s say Atlanta had their bullpen normally rested that day. Maddux gave up 9ER in 7 innings. He gave up 6 in the first, 1 in the second and 2 in the 6th. If the bullpen is normally rested, what’s the best case scenario? How long does a manager leave Maddux in? Well, a good bet is Maddux gives up at least 5ER before he is taken out (remember Maddux has historically been bad in the first innings of games compared to other innings). So, if you want to recalculate, then you insert Maddux for something like 2/3 innings and 5ER. You can’t just take this game away like it never happened. That, in fact, is even worse for his stats (9ER in 7 innings). So you could reasonably argue that Maddux’s stats were helped by “taking one for the team” this day.
The other argument of taking Maddux’s stats from the game against the Cubs because he would be a Cub is… well… perhaps even more nonesensical. If Maddux were a Cub everything would be different. He would be in the NL Central and not the NL West, would have a completely different schedule, and it’s possible that he would have faced better offenses so far than he has with San Diego. And, while the Cubs are second in the league in runs, there are many other good offensive teams and taking that game away, for that reason, just doesn’t add up.
Quite frankly I think your getting your sentimentallity get the best of you. You want Maddux. But your arguments just don’t add up. If the name on his jersey was any other I’m possitive you’d be urging the Cubs to keep away from this guy.
by Luis on
Jun 22, 2008 9:23 AM CDT
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I obviously meant the Padres, not Atlanta... (np)
by Luis on
Jun 22, 2008 9:25 AM CDT
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But the fact is...
... the results are what they are, not what you say they “might” be if bullpens are rested and he wasn’t facing the Cubs.
I freely admit that it’s part sentiment. But I also believe his experience and wisdom can add something that this team can’t get anywhere else.
Yes, if the name were different I wouldn’t be saying this. HE’S GREG MADDUX, A FUTURE HALL OF FAMER!
It’s the right thing to do for many different reasons.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 22, 2008 12:03 PM CDT
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Experience, Wisdom, Sentiment
I’m not criticizing these reasons. I’m just saying that you can’t wipe out games from the stats like they never happened. If you can recaculcate, if you want, the game he “took one for the team” to the likely result if he hadn’t “taken one out for the team”. But you can’t argue that game never happened and use a 0 inning 0 ER approach. Same with the game about the Cubs. That’s all.
by Luis on
Jun 22, 2008 2:35 PM CDT
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One correction
If you have Maddux pitching for 5ER in 2/3 of an inning his road ERA does go down, from 4.75 to 4.61. It leads to the same conclusion about his abilities at this time, though.
by Luis on
Jun 22, 2008 9:36 AM CDT
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How does it look? It looks like you lopped of the worst 25% of your sample size
I’m not a saber-magician – heck I’m not even remotely close to being a saber-apprentice – but I know enough to know that you could make anything look good if you got to lop off the worst 25% of your sample size.
I’m in favor of getting Maddux too, but I think gut-feel, i.e. intangibles, is a better argument in this case than cherry-picked stats.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Jun 22, 2008 10:14 AM CDT
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It works both ways though
The anti-Maddux contingent focuses intensely on the last 16 starts of a guy that has made 723 starts. I’m not saying all 20 years are still relevant, but I think the last 100 or so starts are. If you look at that larger sample, there’s still a home/road split, but it’s not nearly as pronounced as it is in this very small 16 start sample.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jun 22, 2008 12:20 PM CDT
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Good point
but salaries also should be looked at if the Cubs are interested in signing him. He makes $10 million this year, compared to Bedard who makes $7 mil, or Harden who makes $4.75 mil., both pitchers who might be available, and IMO could help the Cubs more than Maddux.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 22, 2008 12:38 PM CDT
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Agreed
Given a 20 year body of work, you could probably come up with ammo to prove your point no matter what side you’re on.
That’s why if I were Hendry, I’d be willing to roll the dice purely on gut feel, i.e. intangibles. I’d have enough faith in Lou & Larry to manage him appropriately on the mound and yank him if he’s on empty, even if he’s a future HoFer. And I’d have enough faith in Maddux to let me know if he felt like he just didn’t have it anymore.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Jun 22, 2008 12:58 PM CDT
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You can use the years Maddux had with the Cubs
Maddux was a 4.15+ ERA guy back then. You certainly don’t expect him to get better.
That just doesn’t excite me a whole lot. Especially if you have to give up any kind of prospects to get him and if you have to replace anyone else in the rotation besides Marquis.
And I absolutely wouldn’t want Maddux to start a game in the postseason.
by Luis on
Jun 22, 2008 2:39 PM CDT
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Nobody has suggested
Maddux replace anyone other than Marquis, or that the Cubs pay much for him. And I’m sure anyone here (inluding me) would prefer acquiring a pitcher with much better numbers. But if it’s going to be 4.15+ ERA pitcher, because that’s what’s actually available and affordable at the deadline, then yes – you want the one with Maddux’s name on the uniform and not any of the others. So what if he doesn’t pitch in the post season – his knowledge of the league’s hitters alone will help Soto, Gallagher, Marmol, etc., and would be well worth having around—as would having a #5 pitcher who consistently pitches 6 innings and has no fear.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jun 22, 2008 6:12 PM CDT
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Not a 5 inning pitcher
unless “five inning pitcher” means that he’s averaged 6.0125 innings per start this year. That’s more than THREE of our starting pitchers (Marquis has averaged 5.79, Gallagher has averaged 5.4 innings in his starts, and Lilly has averaged 5.7).
So you need a different argument to say you don’t want Maddog. This one doesn’t wash.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jun 22, 2008 8:16 AM CDT
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That inning was possbily the funnest baseball
I’ve watched in a long time. Not the HRs which were fantastic, but the “merry-go-round” as Brenley called it of the 1st to 3rd singles. Having a team with the speed/smarts/guile to go first to third reguarly and keep the pressure on the other team was so friggin’ awesome.
I love the long ball (and of course it’ll get the publicity) but the singles were the key to me.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on
Jun 21, 2008 9:47 PM CDT
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You got it......
OFFENSE
The best defense is a good offense
by kcjones on
Jun 22, 2008 12:16 AM CDT
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+1
That, and Aram’s 3-run homer, that blew the doors off the Sox. Somehow, today, everyone forgot that Aram brought his hitting shoes to the park again.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on
Jun 22, 2008 12:51 AM CDT
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Don't Forget
Edmonds followed that up with the second back to back in the inning.
I’m sort of sad Fonty didn’t get a chance to make it 5 in an INNING. ;)
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 2:51 AM CDT
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That merry-go-round thing is the best thing in baseball.
My dad used to call home runs rally killers. He said the real big innings happen when you get singles and doubles and keep bringing the runs in. He’s a pretty smart dude. ;)
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
by slcathena on
Jun 22, 2008 2:50 AM CDT
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The best part
was that Marquis was part of the merry-go-round. You know, a pitcher that can actually hit and run the bases.
I realize that is a foreign concept in Ozzie’s world…
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on
Jun 22, 2008 2:04 PM CDT
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This may have come up elsewhere, but speaking of pitchers who can hit...
Still don’t think the Cubs have what it takes to get CC Sabathia but apparently in yesterday’s game against the Dodgers, CC not only hit a home run, but it was a bomb! I heard on a radio sports update it went 440 ft!!!!
Sounds like he’d fit right in with Z and Wood. (and believe it or not, Prior used to jack some long ones in BP too).
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Jun 22, 2008 2:17 PM CDT
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Regarding Marmol....
...did anyone ask Lou why he was in the game? Using your best RP with a 5-6 run lead doesn’t make sense to me, especially a guy who has been over worked. Lou will have to take a large share of the blame if the staff gets a few more tired and sore arms, so I can see why he’s defensive about questions.
All that said, another great win for the Cubs!
by DudeVf11 on
Jun 21, 2008 10:53 PM CDT
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1) There’s no proof he’s overworked
2) If there is something wrong with his mechanics, would you prefer he do it in a 6-run game, or a 1-run game?
3) Lou’s not getting defensive about questions. He’s irritated that a reporter would push the meme that if a pitcher can’t make something work, there’s something physically wrong with him. After all, there’s nothing physically wrong with Rich Hill.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 21, 2008 10:55 PM CDT
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Marmol
Marmol has some serious issues now. Do you propose they work them out in simulated games or save him for the next 1 run situation in a game? The quicker he can find himself again, the better this team will be. I don’t think we will see Marmol in a key situation until he works out whatevers going on with him now.
by jeff_pico on
Jun 21, 2008 11:16 PM CDT
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So the proof seems to be that Marmol is loco...
...with his mechanics but that the arm is 100%?
For a guy who has delivered for the Cubs the way that he has we know enough now to know that he can’t be trusted again until his mind is healed but we also know that his arm must be 100%?
I am not persuaded….
As I posted down below, there isn’t any proof that I know of that he is tired, but I am not ready to send the guy to AAA either to work out his issues.
As stated below, his velocity would be a better measure as to how tired he may be and even then if it were down it doesn’t “prove” anything.
I am not going to jump ship on Marmol, and yes I prefer that he come into games in leveraged situations, not to protect a 5-6 run lead.
by DudeVf11 on
Jun 21, 2008 11:39 PM CDT
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Love Marmol
I love Marmol but you would be very dissapointed in Marmol coming in in ‘game leveraged situations’ the way he is throwing the ball right now. He was had 5 walks, 2 HBP and 1 wild pitch during his last inning of work. The guys is just not throwing strikes right now.
by jeff_pico on
Jun 22, 2008 1:32 AM CDT
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To Right His Ship...
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
by initram on
Jun 22, 2008 12:32 AM CDT
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Yes they did
It was so he could work out the problems he had in Tampa in a low-pressure situation.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on
Jun 22, 2008 1:32 AM CDT
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Another great game.
Hope the winning streak continues tomorrow night.
by sue369 on
Jun 21, 2008 11:16 PM CDT
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Wish I coulda been around for this one.
I was checking updates on my cell during the journalism school’s convocation and pumped my fist once it went final. :) Thus, better late than never:
Click it, my friends.
W: Marquis
L: Contreras
S: Wood
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jun 21, 2008 11:18 PM CDT
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thanks for posting the link for pat & ron
by Madison Cub Fan on
Jun 22, 2008 12:05 AM CDT
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GO U NU!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jun 22, 2008 12:41 AM CDT
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yvw
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jun 22, 2008 12:42 AM CDT
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It's funny how...
...people get so defensive about the notion that throwing a baseball frequently can tire a pitcher’s arm. It’s almost as if people assume that the arm gets stronger over the course of the season.
Lou’s use of Marmol is not to boost his confidence and regain the alegedly lost mechanics, but simply Lou’s misuse of his bullpen.
Maroml, prior to today had walked 5 guys in June, with 2 of them being against TB on June 19, that’s pretty damn good for a guy who is either 1st in the league or 2nd in appearances and right up there in IPs for a relief pitcher.
Control and Ks can be reasonable measures for a pitcher like Marmol as to whether he’s tiring or hurt. His Ks are down for June compared to May but right there with April. A better measure would be velocity during the game and I don’t know if that stat is posted anywhere?
I don’t see proof that he’s tiring, you are correct. He’s a heavily worked pitcher, hopefully he’ll hold up and one way for Lou to preserve him is to keep him out of games like today.
by DudeVf11 on
Jun 21, 2008 11:33 PM CDT
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the point is
you use him in a non-critical situation yesterday BECAUSE something’s wrong, not physically, but either mechanically or mentally. He’s still throwing fast, but he’s lost some focus somehow. That’s not something you’re going to be able to see in a simulated game. You have to be in a real situation.
I don’t see this use of Marmol yesterday as misuse. I think it’s debatable that Lou’s “misused” his bullpen at all; although I would like to see Lieber more, I also think that Lou doesn’t trust his pen.
In the end, I’d rather see Marmol in non-critical situations till we know he’s going to be able to handle the critical ones.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 22, 2008 10:50 AM CDT
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I think your points are reasonable enough...
...and I see where you are coming from. But I interpret Lou’s use of Marmol as continued misuse. I am glad that the Cubs are satisfied with his velocity as it would support your contention that it’s mechanical or perhaps maybe it’s just mental? These players are not robots and they are going to have bad outings and/or respond poorly to bad outings at times.
Now after 2 poor outings, even if he has a mental issue, I am not ready to change how I use him (assuming that I used him properly to begin with). I can see reacting that way to a guy just brought up from AA, but Marmol has done something for us lately. I’d prefer that the manager continue to show confidence in Marmol and use him in the leveraged role. Leave the 5-6 run leads for other guys’ arms, we are carrying something like 206 pitchers on this roster, I think? How about we use some of them some more.
by DudeVf11 on
Jun 22, 2008 11:37 AM CDT
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You've contradicted yourself.
Many of us said Marmol was being overused. OK, Lou rested him for four days, at which time he started to be wild.
Maybe he NEEDS the consistent work to keep his pitches in the strike zone.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 22, 2008 12:04 PM CDT
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I don't see the contradiction.
My point is that it’s unwise to use your best relief pitchers in games where you have large leads.
I think people may be over-reacting to his wildness. Lou hasn’t changed HIS use of Marmol because he used him useless situations before this wildness and he uses him afterward, i.e., it is not convincing to me that Lou was using Marmol yesterday to address the control issues.
by DudeVf11 on
Jun 22, 2008 8:15 PM CDT
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Posting the new score:
DeRo 1
DMH 0
On Jim Rome’s show a few weeks ago, DeRo said that all Edmonds needed to get going was one big game, then he would become a major cog in the offense. Edmonds had a big game shortly afterward, and he has done a great job since.
I wrote that DeRo was either wearing rose-colored glasses or was just trying to be a good teammate.
Well, DeRo is a good teammate, but his glasses were perfectly clear.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on
Jun 21, 2008 11:46 PM CDT
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-1
Lou’s use of Marmol is not to boost his confidence and regain the alegedly lost mechanics
That’s exactly why he was in there. Plus, add “regain confidence” after Thursday night’s nightmare.
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on
Jun 21, 2008 11:47 PM CDT
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ugh
I guess you already had mentioned boost confidence.
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on
Jun 21, 2008 11:49 PM CDT
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What would be more satisfying tomorrow?
a) Cubs Win! Cub fans waving brooms and singing “Go Cubs Go” at the top of their lungs
b) Cubs Win! Ozzie bitches about Cub fans, Wrigley Field, Jim Edmonds, Sweet Lou, rats, urine, Wrigleyville, falling concrete, waving brooms, Kenny Williams, etc…
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on
Jun 21, 2008 11:56 PM CDT
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All of the above
The best defense is a good offense
by kcjones on
Jun 22, 2008 12:18 AM CDT
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And a repeat next weekend
The best defense is a good offense
by kcjones on
Jun 22, 2008 12:19 AM CDT
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Don't care how Ozzie reacts. I just want the Cubs to win, no matter what color the other team is wearing.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jun 22, 2008 12:43 AM CDT
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I couldn't care less what Ozzie says
or what the freaking White Sox think.
All I want is a W and a Cardinal loss.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on
Jun 22, 2008 1:34 AM CDT
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The All-Time Best Cubs Home Record (and start) is
the 1880 team, which went 37-5 at home for the whole season. They won their first 21 games at home, and then cooled off and finished 16-5 the rest of the way.
They won the pennant by 15 games in an 84 game schedule.
Now in all fairness, in 1880 the National League was a major league in retrospective only. The White Stockings were probably the best team in the country, but the other good teams were in New York, Brooklyn and Philadelphia and didn’t play in the National League. NY and Philly had been kicked out of the league four years earlier for refusing to travel out the West.
Still, if Al counts guys like Larry Corcoran, Ned Williamson and Mike Kelly as three of the greatest 100 Cubs of all time, I think he’s got to count this one as the greatest Cubs start ever.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on
Jun 22, 2008 2:49 AM CDT
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Thanks for this info.
I’d like to know what the best start is from 1900 to date, because that gives a better comparison point. Anyone know?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 22, 2008 4:33 AM CDT
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marmol
great great game.take that ozzie.even when he loses he does,nt shut up.marmol is being used to much.when lou needs that out he brings little carlos in.why???you cant count on guys like cotts howry and the other maroons down there.seems like only carlos and the the boss, kerry wood can get it done. let,s get lieber some work.he,s done a good job in relief.AND DAMM YOU ST LOUIS, GO AWAY.we cant win forever so they might eventually catch the cubs.
by NOMAR on
Jun 22, 2008 7:48 AM CDT
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I prefer to believe
that THEY cannot win forever, so they won’t catch us at all.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 22, 2008 10:53 AM CDT
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Wow... I'm surprised no one's mentioned...
Eric Patterson’s performance?
It was surprisingly solid (though overrunning the foul ball in the bullpen wasn’t great), and more importantly, he looked much better at the plate than he has in the past. He was actually somewhat selective!
Here’s hoping he keeps it up. He could be a valuable strategic piece for Lou if he can maintain that level of game…
by Slim1256 on
Jun 22, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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