Tuesday Morning Stuff That Doesn't Fit Anywhere Else
Miscellaneous thoughts and facts while we await tonight's game:
- In both a post buried in the comments yesterday, and in email, I was told that the White Sox individual tossing a ball around while it was raining Sunday before the game, and making obscene gestures to the bleacherites, wasn't Ozzie Guillen; it was relief pitcher Octavio Dotel. Apologies to Ozzie -- and Octavio... geez, think a little, will ya?
- "Sources say" that Jim Hendry has the green light to spend "what ever it takes" to get starting pitching after the All-Star break. This comes all the way from Sam Zell. Will it be C. C. Sabathia? Maybe, but it could be anyone. In any case, here's more proof that the Cubs are going all-out to win this year.
- Since I -- and most of you -- never hesitate to criticize Joe Morgan (justifiably so), credit to Morgan for leading the charge to get Ron Santo into the Hall of Fame:
"I played against him, and when you look at third basemen, he was the best third baseman of his era," said Morgan, the Hall of Fame second baseman and ESPN broadcaster. "I thought that's the way you judged it. Every year I voted for Maury Wills and Ron Santo. Those are my first two guys. To me, they were both a no-brainer."
Well, Maury Wills isn't really a Hall of Famer, but again, if Morgan can help get Santo over the top next winter and into the Hall, good for him. - Lou Piniella has learned some stuff, not the least of which is that Micah Hoffpauir isn't an outfielder:
Micah Hoffpauir's left-handed bat is a valuable asset with Daryle Ward out, but, like Ward, the rookie is not good enough defensively to play left or right field on a regular basis. Hoffpauir looked tentative on a few balls that landed in front of him on the artificial turf at Tropicana Field, and he didn't start over the weekend against the Sox.
I could have told Lou that after watching him play "tentative" in the outfield during spring training. The article goes on to say that Hoffpauir could be trade bait. He doesn't really have much value, so if Jim Hendry can deal him, more power to Hendry. - Finally, a site note. I have received a few emails saying that the game threads have occasionally gotten a little contentious and personal. I just want to remind everyone of the paragraph you all read -- and agreed to -- when you signed up for your BCB account:
When posting at this blog, please follow this one simple rule: Before hitting "post" to post your remarks, ask yourself: "Would I be embarrassed to say this in front of strangers who were physically present in the room with me and could respond to my face?" If the answer is "yes," then don't post. BCB encourages and welcomes all opinions, no matter how strong; however, personal attacks, vulgarity, and other uncivilized forms of expression are not welcome. Thanks.
I don't think that kind of civility is too much to ask. Thanks again. Let's win tonight.
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2nd is the new first
times are changing ma’aan! I hope this is the year for Santo and the Cubs.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jun 24, 2008 8:26 AM CDT 0 recs
"other uncivilized forms of expression"
That must mean political expression! :)
by jcg996 on Jun 24, 2008 8:29 AM CDT 0 recs
Is it possible...
...knowing Joe Morgan, that he’s thinking of someone else when he talks about Santo?
by SplintChesthair on Jun 24, 2008 8:39 AM CDT 0 recs
Santa?
This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by HectorVillanueva on
Jun 24, 2008 8:47 AM CDT
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Game Threads
While I haven’t been in them much this year, in the past they typically do get a little rowdy. The main reason I stay out of the game threads now is actually because they load extremely slow and it takes forever to scroll to the bottom of the page once there is about 150 comments or so.
by adam316 on Jun 24, 2008 8:43 AM CDT 0 recs
Game Threads
When I’m at work, I have no issues. On my laptop at home, extremely slow. When it’s that slow I go to my profile and shut off the live update feature. Then I just refresh as I used to do on the old site. I do find I’ve gotten used to the live update though. It’s a lovely feature when not in game threads.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jun 24, 2008 8:54 AM CDT
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Maury Wills ?!!!!!
This Maury Wills? Is he serious?
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jun 24, 2008 8:45 AM CDT 0 recs
Apparently so.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 24, 2008 8:48 AM CDT
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maury wills and his beautiful career .660 ops
give him a little credit did steal 100 bases one season aside of that I have no clue what Joe Morgan is thinking.
by cubs on
Jun 24, 2008 9:25 AM CDT
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Agreed.
He held the SB record for 13 years. That’s about his only distinction. (He was a bad manager, too.)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 24, 2008 9:40 AM CDT
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Having lived through
his managerial career I can only say that calling him a bad manager is an understatement. Very diplomatic of you, Al.
"In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the
field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the
defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the
blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and
long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this
aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in
the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
"In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll
be safe at home!"
by bubbamike the one and only on
Jun 24, 2008 11:41 AM CDT
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Wow, longest sig line ever.
Nice gesture, though. R.I.P George Carlin.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jun 24, 2008 11:53 AM CDT
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That's what I thought.
But I, and probably everyone else, read it.
Didn’t know it was Carlin, though. Nice gesture.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jun 24, 2008 11:53 AM CDT
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Well............
..........he did sire Bump Wills!!
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
by tville on
Jun 24, 2008 11:59 AM CDT
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Ooops...
didn’t see your post…lol..
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 24, 2008 12:02 PM CDT
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He did father Bump..
for what that’s worth..
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 24, 2008 12:02 PM CDT
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Are we talking about your dad?
Because now I am all kinds of confused
by halfblindcubbiegirl on
Jun 24, 2008 12:03 PM CDT
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Check here............
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/willsbu01.shtml
...........for more background.
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
by tville on
Jun 24, 2008 12:06 PM CDT
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I know
i was trying to be funny. obviously i failed… again.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on
Jun 24, 2008 12:07 PM CDT
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Well, at least you've learned something.
And learning is half the battle.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jun 24, 2008 12:08 PM CDT
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LOL...
I get it….Well played cubbiegirl..:) Should I change my name to Bump Jr.?
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 24, 2008 12:13 PM CDT
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Good, But Not HoF
If Wills had won 3 more Gold Gloves, had about 400 more hits, or walked 400 more times than he did, you could make a case for him. If he had stolen about 200 more bases, you could make a case for him. He simply does not have the numbers for the HoF.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on
Jun 24, 2008 11:43 AM CDT
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Not even...
If we added in the stats of Bump and the other 4 Wills’ to ever play MLB to Maury’s would he be HOF worthy.
by BartlettBob on
Jun 24, 2008 11:51 AM CDT
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This and That
First, who are these sources that indicate Hendry has the big green light? Al, are these sources, the same that said the Cubs wouldn’t get a certain 2B’er from a certain team that just happens to be in ChiTown today?
Second, Joe (I think I’m perfect) Morgan is leading the way for Ronnie? Who’d-a-thunk-it? I saw that article this morning and could not believe me eyes. I do have to wonder how paring down the vote from “up to 10 out of 20-25” to “up to 4 out of 10” really improves Ronnie’s chances of getting into the exclusive-this-is-our-tree-house-and-you’re-not-invited-club. I’m skeptical and won’t believe it until Ronnie gets the call. It’s just the HoF’s way of screwing something up, you know like the Negro league heros. Yeah, vote all these guys in – decades late – then “forget” Buck O’Neil…
Third, what’s with the game threads and larger posts in general? It’s like this new site is waaaaaayyyyy slower than the old one when the number of posts gets into the hundreds.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jun 24, 2008 8:46 AM CDT 0 recs
Nope, not the same sources.
But the sources that told be about TTSNBN not happening turned out to be correct.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 24, 2008 8:48 AM CDT
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Dude that second paragraph about green-lighting Hendry...
...sent a few shivers down my spine, not gonna lie. Al’s been talking about the whole year, but clearly this year is different. From a 25 year old, I feel like this is how our team SHOULD feel damn near every year – like the championship is ours for the taking. But apparently management hasn’t felt the same throughout the years. Either way, I’m glad that those in charge recognize that we have something special here.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jun 24, 2008 9:18 AM CDT
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If true
I would stop thinking Zell to be the root of all evil, and just consider him the root of most evil
by cocknfire on
Jun 24, 2008 10:53 AM CDT
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What's the cash cap?
What is the maximum amount of cash that can be dealt between teams in a trade without a waiver from the Commish (a commish who I dare say would love the Brewers to get CC)? That’s the biggest chip the Cubs have. Honestly, what in our farm system could possibly appeal to the Tribe for CC?
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on
Jun 24, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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You know..
if the Indians were prepared to allow time for a contract extension on a Sabathia trade, I’d say not much. However, if they’re going to stand firm on not allowing it - making C.C. a rental - then I would think a number of scenarios could come into play. Off the top of my head, I’d imagine that Jose Ceda and Jose Ascanio would be a nice starting point for conversation.
by Damen Jackson on
Jun 24, 2008 11:29 AM CDT
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You're exactly right on the first point
if there is no negotiation window, the Cubs have a lot better chance of getting C.C. I don’t think Ceda and Ascanio are enough to start the coversation. I think Gallagher starts the conversation.
by DGU on
Jun 24, 2008 2:48 PM CDT
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I wonder though
Even the rental price has high—more than the compensation picks they’d receive just for holding on to him until the end of the year.
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on
Jun 24, 2008 3:41 PM CDT
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Zell knows
a winner brings a higher price than a loser. He didn’t make all that money being a fool.
"In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the
field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the
defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the
blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and
long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this
aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in
the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
"In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll
be safe at home!"
by bubbamike the one and only on
Jun 24, 2008 11:53 AM CDT
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Zell probably knows the old addage of
you have to spend money to make money. It would seem to be pretty appropriate here.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jun 24, 2008 11:58 AM CDT
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Random question...
...regarding Hoffpauir specifically, but all players generally:
How hard is it to “practice” and thus “improve” your fielding? I mean, we regularly see guys take batting practice, hit off a tee, do video study of opposing pitchers and their own swing….but what does a guy do to improve his fielding from a practical standpoint?
I mean, you could hit him flyballs, but that only works if you’re not hitting them TO him, but rather someplace away from him so he has to play it like real game conditions, right? Is it as easy as just having Hoffpauir shag balls in the outfield during batting practice, pretending each ball hit is under “real” game conditions? That way he tries to get a jump on the ball, dive or play if off a hop, and get it into the proper cutoff man?
Just something I was wondering…it just seems easier for infielders to practice groundball fielding and turning double plays that it does for outfielders to get “real” practice.
by Chadnudj on Jun 24, 2008 8:52 AM CDT 0 recs
Being an athlete
You either are or you aren’t. He’s obviously athletic but he doesn’t have the same level of natural talent and skill that would allow him to improve dramatically such as a Rick Ankiel. How does that guy go from being a SP to a starting CF with good speed, pop and a cannon of an arm to throw out baserunners? He’s a good athlete.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jun 24, 2008 8:57 AM CDT
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Plus...
... he’s 28 years old, and very unlikely to develop this sort of skillset at that age, with no experience, and to thrust him into a starting OF slot on a pennant contender is really unfair, both to him and to the team.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 24, 2008 9:12 AM CDT
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Anybody can shag fly balls.
You can do it all day long. Hit right to you, to your left, to your right, from sun up to sun down. But there’s little things you pick up that, as Al said, a 28 year old is probably too old to learn now. Things like reading the ball off the bat so you can get a jump, knowing your pitcher’s arsenal and what pitch he’s likely to throw in different counts to different types of hitters and where those hitters are likely to place the ball. Fundamentals and raw talent are key to this game.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jun 24, 2008 10:07 AM CDT
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+1
Reading the ball off the bat ASAP is soooooooooooooo important. Knowing your pitcher, also important. I still do that do this day – at my age – in 16” softball in CF, even at 1B.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on
Jun 24, 2008 12:24 PM CDT
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There is a certain level of physical talent that no amount of learning will replace.
Hoffpauir can’t learn how to be a more athletic runner or have a stronger arm.
by cwyers on
Jun 24, 2008 2:06 PM CDT
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The best outfielders
are instinctive. You can work on improving your reads of fly balls, but if you don’t have the instincts you won’t be a good outfielder.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on
Jun 24, 2008 10:42 AM CDT
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Word.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 24, 2008 10:43 AM CDT
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Outfielders +1
Anyone can catch a ball hit at you, but there seems to be so much movement on the balls lately its the gappers and down the line that would eat him up.
MH swings a good bat and would be an asset to most teams off the bench or in the AL as a DH.
I hear MH is a big R&R fan, would love to play in Cleveland. ( ???)
I bleed double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers
by parrotinct on
Jun 24, 2008 10:55 AM CDT
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My wife could practice driving all day long and.....
well I think you know the rest
by gocubsgo22 on
Jun 24, 2008 11:20 AM CDT
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+1
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 24, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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Thanks for encouraging some civility Al
There were a few FanPosts yesterday as well that turned into personal bashing sessions. Let’s talk baseball and just ignore comments that we don’t like eh? No need to post a put down everytime someome you don’t like adds a comment. Ok, i’m done. Go Cubs.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jun 24, 2008 8:58 AM CDT 1 recs
Smugness Is Ugly
Nothing ruins a baseball forum or blog more than condescension and holier-than-thou attitudes. This one is unique in that it’s mature, good-natured, and populated by people that don’t take themselves too seriously. Please let’s keep it that way! For my part I am steering clear of game threads where I’m apt to turn into said douchenozzle.
by CaliCub on Jun 24, 2008 9:11 AM CDT 0 recs
+1
I’ve taken a game-thread break myself, though I do sometimes read them the next day, which has lead me to notice an interesting occurrence: a couple of the nastier posters, who are usually only around during losses and/or meltdowns, seem to come back in the thread a couple hours after the game, once most everyone’s gone, and post multiple snarky replies. Classy.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jun 24, 2008 9:17 AM CDT
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Yeah, they have been a tad mean lately...
...but honestly, what’s to complain about when we are 20 games up? Not much, at least in my eyes.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jun 24, 2008 9:20 AM CDT
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Yep.
This season has been great thus far, for sure.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jun 24, 2008 9:23 AM CDT
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Blue Mike will find something
He always does
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on
Jun 24, 2008 10:11 AM CDT
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yes but...
lately Blue Mike will post a comment that isn’t controversial… and people will still feel the need to bash his posts, just cause they don’t like him. that makes for sucky threads IMHO
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on
Jun 24, 2008 11:21 AM CDT
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Well said Ben
I haven’t said anything but to be honest it’s been gettting mighty old
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
by carolinacub on
Jun 24, 2008 1:03 PM CDT
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+1
Maybe the dictionary needs to be updated with the word “ignore.”
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jun 24, 2008 1:04 PM CDT
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Since this is the "Stuff That Doesn't Fit Anywhere Else" Post
via Deadspin, The most succinct take on Mariotti I’ve ever seen:
The second-worst thing a lifelong newspaper sportswriter can do is become the person who grows to hate sports because they’ve covered it for so long. The worst is realize that and try to cash in on it. Jay Mariotti, ladies and gentlehumans.
Game. Set. Match. Winner.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 24, 2008 9:14 AM CDT 0 recs
That Was SPOT ON
Great stuff Gary. I’ve thought the same of Jim Rome – does he really like the field he’s covering or just using it for self-aggrandization?
by CaliCub on
Jun 24, 2008 9:52 AM CDT
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Rome's different case, IMO.
He loves sports because it’s serves as a vehicle for his enormous ego. He’s guy that realizes his luck and his situation and uses both very well. I think he likes sports, but hates athletes.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jun 24, 2008 9:57 AM CDT
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Rome is all about Rome
Just like a ‘shock-jock’ he says whatever he needs to say to get attention, which equals cash. Show biz, folks. Please don’t believe ANY talk show host, be it sports or political actually believes everything he or she says. Conflict = ratings (or circulation, in the newspaper biz) = money.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on
Jun 24, 2008 12:18 PM CDT
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Since this is about a little bit of everything...
Reed Johnson is probably going to the DL retroactive to June 17 with “back stiffness.” He was scheduled to appear (as he does every week) on the Mike North Morning Show on 670 AM in Chicago, however did not call him. RJ is the likely candidate to be sent to the DL in order to bring up Sean Marshall to fill in for Zambrano while he is on the DL. Reed was probably not very happy about Hendry moving him to the DL, however this fulfills a few needs…
-Too many outfielders… needed to get rid of one
-Eric Patterson has been playing well, and can play center, or left and fill in for Soriano if needed late in a game
-Much needed left handed started finally on the team who has looked good at AAA
Hopefully this is all temporary, Marshall produces, Reed isn’t hurt that bad, and we keep this streak alive!
by lswaidz on Jun 24, 2008 9:31 AM CDT 0 recs
It's probably a good idea...
... considering RJ had back surgery a year ago. Why risk further injury if the team is winning and there’s a suitable temporary replacement?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 24, 2008 9:41 AM CDT
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If RJ goes DL
does the platoon in CF become
v.RHP
LF Patterson
CF Edmonds
RF Dome
v. LHP
LF Murton
CF Dome
RF DeRo
Or will Edmonds get a shot to hit v. LHP?
by DGU on
Jun 24, 2008 2:53 PM CDT
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I quite
game threads over a year ago. It’s just not worth weathering the knee-jerk reactions and idiotic behavior of so many. I don’t care about the language or anything particular, I just think those ledgejumpers and haters ruin my enjoyment of just following the game’s progress. I usually get off BCB and just follow the game via MLB or Yahoo while emailing with a friend or two that are doing the same thing.
"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jun 24, 2008 9:33 AM CDT 0 recs
(This reply belongs above) Re: Maury Wills
I really do believe that merit for HOF candidacy should go beyond the stat sheet, so if Joe Morgan thinks Wills was a special player, more power to him. Take Andre Dawson for example. I constantly find myself trying to defend his candidacy based on his cannon arm alone, but people just want to look at his bbref page and disregard anything beyond the numbers.
by Jerry Mumphrey on Jun 24, 2008 9:36 AM CDT 0 recs
Dawson's career numbers...
... in the context of his era, were far better than Wills’ in the context of his.
You do have to look at Wills’ numbers in the context of the 1960’s, a very low-offense era, and that he played many years with Dodger Stadium, an extreme pitcher’s park in those days, as his home park.
The .720 OPS he put up in 1962 doesn’t look very good to us, but it was at least league-average then.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 24, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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It is nice to see Morgan making the context point.
That’s going to become increasingly important aspect of HOF voting, given the inflated numbers of the so-called “steroid era” and the slight offensive drop-off we’ve begun to see coming out of it.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jun 24, 2008 9:49 AM CDT
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Also the SB...
he played in an era when the SB wasn’t as prominent as it was in the ‘70s and ‘80s, but he led the league in SB every year from ‘60-’65, and was top 4 in SB from ‘66‘69. He has an MVP award as well.
He probably would be considered more of the “fame” argument for his baserunning, and he probably is overrated based on the fact that OBP was largely ignored back then in favor of AVG, and as Al said he played in a park and in an era that deflated his stats.
by SouthernCub on
Jun 24, 2008 10:04 AM CDT
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It also helps to understand
that shortstop was not considered an offensive position then but a defensive one. The two top shortstops of that generation were Aparicio and Wills, neither one of whom were real offensive threats except on the basepaths. Also they transformed the game and made speed a factor, a movement away from the three run homerun theory of baseball.
"In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the
field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the
defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the
blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and
long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this
aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in
the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
"In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll
be safe at home!"
by bubbamike the one and only on
Jun 24, 2008 11:58 AM CDT
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