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Is Marmol the next Ankiel?

I hope not, but...

Star-divide

After two outings where Carlos couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, the Cubs said that they looked at video of his performances and found "flaws in his mechanics." Doesn't look like they fixed them because something still doesn't look right. I was at the game on Sunday and was watching Carlos as he warmed up in the bullpen. He couldn't throw a strike. Notice that he was sat down and that Howry came in to finish the game. Then, last night, they bring him in during the 9th. He was all over the place. Inside...outside...hi...a lot of his pitches were wild. He even hit a guy - his 5th in three games. Could this be a case of something in his head and not "mechanics"? We all remember the mind-blocks of players like Chuck Knoblauch who could not throw a ball from second to first. And the most recent is Rick Ankiel of the Cardinals. He was a decent pitcher that just one day couldn't pitch anymore...it was all in his head. I'm hoping this isn't the case with Marmol, but he really looks sort of lost out there right now.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Yep.

Actually, Marmol was pretty good last night apart from the one HBP. To say he’s “the next Ankiel” is ridiculous.

For one thing, Marmol’s a converted catcher. One of the reasons they converted him is that he couldn’t hit.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 25, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Question

I keep seeing this +1 in posts. Does that mean good point so you get a point or is there something else behind it. Just curious. Want to make sure I am not missing anything. Thanks.

when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."

by 1060 W Addison on Jun 25, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sort of a "me too"

...as in, “one more like the last one.”

"Eighty-five percent of the world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here." - Lee Elia, 1983

"The only thing that bothers me is that I would never want to destroy the love and what the fans of Chicago are to the Chicago Cubs. I mean, God knows. If there's one pure thing in baseball, it is the fans of Chicago." - Lee Elia, 2008

by CaughtInTheVines on Jun 25, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

'Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.' - Lord Kelvin

‘No one will need more than 637Kb of memory for a personal computer’ – Bill Gates

‘Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau.’ – Irving Fisher (1929)

‘We don’t like their sound. Groups of guitars are on the way out’ – Decca record executive on the Beatles

‘Radio has no future.’ – Lord Kelvin, 1897

Brought to you by other predictions that were way off base.

by Dome is my home-ay on Jun 25, 2008 10:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Looks like Lord Kelvin was an idiot.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 25, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Jun 25, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gates never said that

It’s like the Al Gore invented the internet thing. An odd meme that keeps perpetuating itself.

by Wreckard on Jun 25, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actual quote from Larry King (Is Still A)Live!

AL GORE: ” I’ve traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country’s economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.”

Despite the obvious redundancies (“took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives”) and outright head-scratchers (“improvements in our educational system”), seems like he is taking partial credit for what was primarily a military invention.

"Give 'im the heater!" -Lou Brown

by Goodie1969 on Jun 25, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, poor Al Gore

Now his favorite entity, the UN, has actually joined reality and admitted that the earth’s temperature has dropped in the last decade, over 31,000 scientists say that IF there is global warming, that it is NOT caused by humans but by cyclical earth patterns borne out of volcanic eruptions etc….So, Gore’s investment in the carbon credit business’ have taken a hit too….....

by crazymountain on Jun 25, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

you got a cite for that?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jun 25, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

although the cyclical patterns are due to more than just volcanic eruptions….

by digitalbenjamin on Jun 25, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's always more fun on this site when it gets political...

Now let’s all discuss something we can all agree on… like cockfighting for example.

8-p

Help me Obi-ONEDEC. You're our only hope.

by IowaCubs- on Jun 25, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO!!

when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."

by 1060 W Addison on Jun 25, 2008 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

He did.

He was behind the laws that opened up ARPANET to the public. Before that happened, there was no Internet.

He never said that he invented the protocol that made the internet work. He never said that he designed or built the servers. But he DID help create the Internet.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jun 25, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

And when Vin Cerf

...who can say more than anyone that he invented the internet – says he’s ok with Gore’s quote, you know it’s not that outrageous.

by Wreckard on Jun 25, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right

It’s amazing to me how people can take a perfectly accurate quote and twist it to fit their own views.

by bluekoolaide on Jun 25, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not predicting anything or saying Marmol is the next Ankiel.

I’m simply asking if anybody thinks his troubles might be in his head. His control wasn’t very good last night. The O’s helped him out by swinging at a few questionable pitches.

by bergs55 on Jun 25, 2008 10:28 AM CDT reply actions  

In terms of odds of what is likely wrong with Marmol,

I think they go in this order of most likely to least likely:
1. Mechanical fly in the ointment, still working on fixing it;
2. Worn down by excessive use;
3. Just a bad stretch is all; they happen to everyone (see Webb, Brandon);
4. Temporary minor physical problem;
5. Mental problems;
6. Messed up by having 4 days off and “needs to be overworked to have success.”

by DGU on Jun 25, 2008 10:29 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm concerned.

Some of his pitches last night were nowhere near the plate. He broke off a few nice sliders, but he’s still erratic. Not cured, a work in progress.

Isn’t it weird that two of the most promising pitchers on the Cubs, Marmol and Hill, both fall victim to the Ankiel syndrome the same season.

by Clark Addison on Jun 25, 2008 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Aghh!! Marmol has not "fall[en] victim to the Ankiel syndrome"!

He’s just struggling a bit. Don’t panic. Repeat: Do not panic.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by daver on Jun 25, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Marmol looked better last night, minus that HBP. His slider was snapping over the plate in most cases.

by sackings108 on Jun 25, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

The answer is: 42

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jun 25, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope.

There, the answer was 4.

Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.

by Cool Hand on Jun 25, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Now that's what I call

marine biology!”

"Just because you've had enough/ doesn't mean you wanted too much." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jun 25, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

First of all it isn't "Ankiel Syndrome"

it is Steve Blass Disease.
Second Marmol looked pretty darn good tonight.

"In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the
field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the
defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the
blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and
long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this
aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in
the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

"In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll
be safe at home!"

by bubbamike the one and only on Jun 26, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's perfectly understandable...

...to be concerned about Marmol. He’s been such a key part of this team’s success that to see him struggle is highly unnerving. But I would advise my fellow Cubs fans to be patient and not panic.

Carlos looked a little better last night, and as others have pointed out, he’s not giving up hits, just walking and hitting guys. (And I would even go as far as to suggest that plunking a guy here or there might actually be a good way to keep hitters off-balance. I’m not advocating that he do it intentionally, of course, but, hey, if it happens it happens.)

In any case, I say: Sit tight and let this situation play out. Carlos appears to be a very self-motivated player, and I have faith he’s going to figure this out.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by daver on Jun 25, 2008 10:34 AM CDT reply actions  

like "Wild Thing" Williams

IIRC, Kruk didn’t like batting against him.

by tootle on Jun 25, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whoa......

put down the gun….come in from the ledge….things will be ok.

by rlpete on Jun 25, 2008 10:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Is Hoffpauir the next Bonds?

Is Eric Patterson the next Willie Randolph?
Is Fukudome the next Ichiro?
Is Gallagher the next Clemens?

...Who knows? – TL

by timlacy on Jun 25, 2008 10:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Tim, can I ask you a question?

Why do you end all of your posts with ”—TL”?

Not criticizing – just curious.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by daver on Jun 25, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you've...

...asked this before, but it’s just habit—-I like to. It’s personal. Consider it my signature line.

With that, what does “Nanika Go Okuro!” mean? – TL

by timlacy on Jun 25, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, well, if I have asked before, I apologize.

I didn’t mean to belabor the point. You do know you can actually have a sig line appear automatically without having to type it every time, right?

And “Nanika Go Okuro!” means “It’s gonna happen!” All credit goes to dragonsfanatic for the phrase and my avatar.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by daver on Jun 25, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

What does it mean?

It doesn’t mean anything…It’s like ‘ramalamadingdong’ or ‘give peace a chance’

Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08

by Fukudometer on Jun 25, 2008 11:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Rich Hill: Next Ankiel?

A LHP with a lot of promise that has some success early on at the major league level, who develops terrible control problems. Fans speculating about whether the problems are psychological or not.

Okay, Hill was a whole lot older as a rookie than Ankiel was. Ankiel was more heralded than Hill. Hill hasn’t been throwing pitches to the backstop, but the comparison between Hill and Ankiel is more valid than the comparison between Marmol and Ankiel.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Jun 25, 2008 11:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Marmol

Marmol has been so lights out that we are completely spoiled. I think the ‘worst’ of what could happen is he falls back into being an average major league pitcher. Not good for the Cubs but I don’t think he’s going to completely fall apart. Marmol has been a complete surprise as far as his dominance. It would be sad to see him regress a little but its possible.

by jeff_pico on Jun 25, 2008 11:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Oh no

I can think of worse scenarios. One would be that his overuse leads to continual injuries starting right after the trade deadline passes and then he never plays for the Cubs again but we keep hoping he does year after year and when he doesn’t we get frustrated at Marmol and call him a softy and forget that we once called him a workhorse.

Another would be that Marmol’s arm actually detaches during delivery, flies off towards the batter, who spins to get out of the way, hits Soto in the head with his bat causing severe head trauma while also hitting his mask off his head which goes flying and hits Derrek Lee in the wrist causing a reinjury. This angers Lee so much that he starts a clubhouse fight, ruining our team chemistry and increasing team frustration so that when Carlos Zambrano next strikes out he doesn’t break the bat over his knee, but rather over Fukudome’s knees on-deck, breaking both of Dome’s legs.

Granted, I don’t think that latter scenarios is very likely, although it is more likely than that Marmol is the next Ankiel.

by DGU on Jun 25, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

When they make a movie of the Cubs 2008 season

that will be the alternate ending on the special 12-disc set. The only question: who plays Ryan Theriot?

by DGU on Jun 25, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

a Chihuahua.

but a Cajun one.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jun 25, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

So...

Ramirez is okay?

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jun 25, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nothing could faze Ramirez.

Besides he’d already be on the DL.

by DGU on Jun 25, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you the next premature fanposter?

I would wait until seven or eight outings when he continously walks or hits batters while failing to retire anyone before spouting this kind of stuff.

by lamentir on Jun 25, 2008 12:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Chicken Little mentality prevasive

Marmol is opening up too fast with his fastball which is why he is wild high. It will be corrected with work and experience.

Actually I think of the Bull Durham scene with Marmol possibly using his wildness like hitting the AD board a few times just keep them from really digging on.

Koufax also had Ankiel’s syndrome.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jun 25, 2008 12:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Walrond...

I heard he was doing pretty good in the Phillies system.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jun 25, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, no he isn't, actually.

Unless you count 1-7 with a 4.13 ERA as “pretty good”.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 25, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

walrond

isnt doing especially well and turns 32 this year.

by cubs on Jun 25, 2008 12:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Walrond

wears the tightest pants I have ever seen. It’s as if they were tattooed on. The Farns only wishes he could get his pants that tight. It made me just a bit uncomfortable to sit at an I-Cubs game with a female friend who kept asking about him.

by iCub on Jun 25, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry but I refuse to go out on th eledge on this one

Marmol is having problems-I have to think he’ll get them figured out but, even if he doesn’t, if all it takes to derail us is a flameout by an (admittedly key) set-up guy-then we’re not that great of a team after all.
I’d much rather climb out there based on Derrek Lee’s problems with low, outside breaking stuff in key clutch situations.

by bluekoolaide on Jun 25, 2008 1:58 PM CDT reply actions  

Would it be such a bad thing ?

I mean he is a wicked set up guy but hey if he could learn to hit a lot of homers
he might be of great use and Ankiel is playing CF so if Marmol can do that and hit
the homers we might another problem solved.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jun 25, 2008 4:35 PM CDT reply actions  

When

would we consider our centerfield problem solved? Is it not? at the moment anyway?

when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."

by 1060 W Addison on Jun 25, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

64 posts on this retarded subject...

And people say I’m the nutbag around here. Carlos Marmol has his mechanics go beserk for two games and the peanut gallery is ready to label him Rick Ankiel. The Rick Ankiel of the organization is Rich Hill.

GET Rich Harden !!! 10 starts, 4-0, 59 IP, 72 Ks, 2.44 ERA !!!

by MDBNIU on Jun 25, 2008 8:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Quiche!!!

Stop making me agree with you…

by GoCubbies34 on Jun 25, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, now...

...I’ve never read anyone call you a “nutbag.” And that would break the BCB “no namecalling” rule.

I believe I’ve seen words such as “patronizing,” “condescending,” “obnoxious,” “repetitive” and “inaccurate” associated with your posts, but never “nutbag.” Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this retarded subject, though. After Marmol’s solid performance last night, I believe we can consider this subject closed.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by daver on Jun 26, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

DING DING DING

“Most Unecessary Fan Post Of The Season”

Way too much time on your hands, my friend…....

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 26, 2008 12:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Hope the "author" (ha!)

Watched last night. I would take the next couple plays off before posting again, Champ.

by lamentir on Jun 26, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions  

The answer to this question is "No".

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jun 26, 2008 10:14 AM CDT reply actions  

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