Runnin' Down A Dream: Cubs 4, Orioles 11
Yeah runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me
Workin' on a mystery, goin' wherever it leads
Runnin' down a dream -- Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, "Runnin' Down a Dream"
That's the song they've been playing as the Cubs take the field for the last few days, and it fits real well, I think -- that's exactly what they, and we, are doing, pursuing a dream that hasn't come, so far.
It seemingly got a bit further away today, that dream, as the Orioles blew out the Cubs 11-4, their worst loss since a 9-0 shutout at the hands of the Reds on May 7, and their first series loss at home since April 29-May 1 vs. the Brewers.
Yes, it was bad. Real bad. Jason Marquis was bad today -- he had little stuff or command, and yet he was one strike away from getting through the disastrous third inning without any runs scoring. Once the floodgates opened, no Cub pitchers could stop it, and that's a bone I have to pick with Lou Piniella. Today was a perfect opportunity to use Jon Lieber, who's supposed to be a "long reliever", to finish out the game; he came in at the top of the fifth with the score 7-0. But after one mediocre inning and only 20 pitches (17 strikes, typical of a Lieber appearance), Lou yanked him. This meant that the team went through most of the bullpen, with Scott Eyre (who left with groin discomfort, and no wonder, after having been idle for a week), Michael Wuertz, Bob Howry and Neal Cotts all seeing action.
This isn't how you manage a blowout, Lou -- and we should be congratulating you today for being named a NL All-Star coach, replacing former Mets manager Willie Randolph. Lou sounded quite pleased on the postgame show, saying he'd be happy to go back to Yankee Stadium for the last time, having spent so many years there as a player, coach and manager. In any case, today, Jon Lieber should have thrown at least three, maybe four, innings; now what happens if you need someone like Wuertz, who threw 30 pitches today, tomorrow, if the game goes into extra innings?
OK, I'm done, with that, anyway. Sometimes even good teams have games like this, where nothing works right; example: the 2001 Mariners, managed by Lou, who blew through their schedule, setting an AL record with 116 wins, went into Kansas City on July 23 that year, with a 72-27 record, leading their division by 18 games, and lost two straight to the Royals -- who at the time had a record of 38-61, 34 games worse than Seattle's. It happens. The good news is that the Cardinals also lost today, blowing a 9th-inning lead and losing 3-2 in 10 innings to the Tigers.
So who's in worse shape? The Cubs, who lost and got to rest some regulars for half the game today and have a road series in their hometown, or the Cardinals, who played till 1 am yesterday and extra innings today and have to go play in Kansas City this weekend against a team that swept them in St. Louis last week? I think you know the answer.
In any case, the less said about today's game, the better, except that I met BCB reader Shanghai Badger, who came up and introduced himself to me in line (sorry you had to see such a bad game!), and we had a nice talk with two Cubs fans who live in Washington, DC, who came in for the series (one of them originally from Sydney, Australia, and he got a BCB card -- if you are here, welcome!). My friends Brian and Kristy brought their ten-month-old baby today -- fortunately, it wasn't the baby's first game, or she'd have nightmares about her first experience at Wrigley!
What I will say is that today, I heard more about the Cubs' possible pursuit of C. C. Sabathia. I can't go into too many details, but let's say that I do know that Jim Hendry IS looking into this, that it's more than just our wishful thinking, and that it could happen sooner rather than later with the Indians having fallen into last place. We already know that Sam Zell has green-lighted Crane Kenney and Hendry to do whatever they think they have to in order to win this year. While I'd be leery about trading for Sabathia unless the Cubs had a real good chance to sign him to an extension -- there's no doubt that Sabathia could make a great 1-2 punch with Carlos Zambrano (who threw today off flat ground and will probably have a bullpen session on Sunday) for several years to come if they can sign him; after a terrible start Sabathia is 4-4, 2.42 in his last ten starts, and in the four losses the Tribe scored nine runs. C. C. would probably thrive with the higher-powered Cub offense.
Go get him, Jim.
And go get the Sox again, starting tomorrow.
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Correction: Score was 11-4, Al.
Still sucks though, lol.
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Kayla Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
by Unique on Jun 26, 2008 8:25 PM CDT 0 recs
LOL. I'll fix it.
Seemed like 100-3 to me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 8:32 PM CDT
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The headline is being stubborn, it still says 3. Refusing to acknowledge even that one run. It's so upset.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jun 27, 2008 1:48 AM CDT
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LOL
I’ll fix that, too.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 27, 2008 10:24 AM CDT
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Go get them tomorrow Cubs
Go Royals!
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 26, 2008 8:26 PM CDT 0 recs
C.C.
Should the Cubs obtain C.C. – who is the odd man out? Marquis did not help his case today. He did not help it against the Sox either, but the offensive explosion helped overshadow his performance that day.
Current temperature in hell: 46 degrees F - and falling!
by wnielsen on Jun 26, 2008 8:28 PM CDT 0 recs
Does it matter?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 8:32 PM CDT
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Not really
Just curious – I would think it would either be Marquis or Gallagher.
Current temperature in hell: 46 degrees F - and falling!
by wnielsen on
Jun 26, 2008 8:34 PM CDT
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I think you're right.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 8:35 PM CDT
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I think it does matter.
The difference between replacing Gallagher and replacing Marquis is substantial, at least given my estimates of Marquis (sucks, ERA right around 5) and Gallagher (doesn’t suck, ERA in the mid fours) for the rest of the season.
by cwyers on
Jun 26, 2008 8:39 PM CDT
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I took Al's "Does it matter" to be more rhetorical
In the sense that CC is better than either.
I agree that Gallagher makes more sense to stay in the rotation.
by AlabamaCubFan on
Jun 26, 2008 8:41 PM CDT
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Correct.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 8:43 PM CDT
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At the same time, though...
...Gallagher might have to be part of the package to GET Sabathia.
This isn’t an academic distinction. You’re not getting Sabathia, so much as you’re getting the difference between Sabathia and whatever he’s replacing. So if you can replace Jason Marquis and keep Gallagher, you might be better off getting a lesser pitcher than Sabathia, even in the short run.
by cwyers on
Jun 26, 2008 8:43 PM CDT
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Like Greg Maddux?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 8:44 PM CDT
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And beyond that...
... as we have discussed many times, we are stuck with Marquis. He’s under contract for another year and a half and no one’s going to take that deal in trade.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 8:45 PM CDT
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If the Cubs are a better team without Marquis...
...and they’re really serious about spending whatever it takes to win, then couldn’t releasing Jason Marquis be part of that?
by cwyers on
Jun 26, 2008 8:47 PM CDT
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Yes
If they don’t need to move Gallagher to obtain C.C. or anyone else for that matter, then the Cubs need to strongly consider moving/releasing Marquis. The Cubs could pay most of his salary in a trade, as well.
Current temperature in hell: 46 degrees F - and falling!
by wnielsen on
Jun 26, 2008 8:52 PM CDT
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But they won't.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:19 PM CDT
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+1
Gallagher goes in any trade for C.C., but Lieber/Marshall can always replace Marquis and make us instantly better. The Cubs aren’t doing everything they can to WIN NOW as long as Marquis makes another start.
by DGU on
Jun 27, 2008 10:04 AM CDT
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Depends on your estimation of Maddux as a pitcher right now.
by cwyers on
Jun 26, 2008 8:47 PM CDT
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My estimation of him is higher than others here, obviously.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:19 PM CDT
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I don't want Maddux.
He is not what we need. We need a dominate force in our rotation besides Zambrano and Dempster. You could make the argument that Gallagher has been our third best pitcher this year. I think the mindset that Hendry has to go into is that we should keep Gallagher in the rotation and find somebody that could take Marquis (Yankees, Detroit, Rangers, Marlins, etc.). Any deal with Marquis will require us paying at least 85% of his salary. Can’t believe we signed this guy for 7 million a year. THAT has to be one of Hendry’s dumbest moves besides trading Pierre for Nolasco and company.
Gallagher is a good one, and the Cubs should find any way possible to keep him. If you have to move him by getting Sabathia, then, by all means, do it.
The Cubs still keep jerking around the kid something awful though, it makes no sense on the way they are pitching him. They skipped over him and pitched Marquis when his last performance was the best one he has had. Now he’s going off damn near 10 days of rest and hopefully he won’t have any rust going into Saturday’s game.
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Kayla Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
by Unique on
Jun 27, 2008 2:44 AM CDT
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Who would be the bigger salary dump?
Get rid of the biggest paycheck in my opinion
by sdurst on
Jun 27, 2008 8:53 AM CDT
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Forgive me Al, I've never actually heard your voice
But after games like today I “hear” you (through the site of course) saying “It’s only one game, they weren’t going to win 162.”
I don’t throw things as much, thanks. LOL
by AlabamaCubFan on Jun 26, 2008 8:39 PM CDT 0 recs
LOL
But yes, that’s pretty much exactly what I’m saying.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 8:43 PM CDT
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Well hell Al, if you're quoting Tom Petty,
you probably should have used this one to describe today’s game… ;-)
Baby, you’ll come knocking on my front door
Same old line you used to use before
I said yeah well, what am I supposed to do
I didn’t know what I was getting into
So you’ve had a little trouble in town
Now you’re keeping some demon down
Stop draggin’ my
Stop draggin’ my
Stop draggin’ my heart around
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 26, 2008 8:40 PM CDT 0 recs
LMAO
How true. And not only for this game, but for so many years.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 8:43 PM CDT
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Let's hope
we never have to use “Free Fallin’” to describe the Cubs this year.
I am 100% confident we won’t.
by madeindetroit on
Jun 26, 2008 10:56 PM CDT
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LOL
Or “Breakdown”.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jun 27, 2008 5:28 AM CDT
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So Al...
I’m guessing this is from Deep Goat correct?
Devin Hester, you are rediculous! -Jeff Joniak
by ARAM FOR MVP on Jun 26, 2008 8:47 PM CDT 0 recs
Dude...
...we’ve tried to get this outta him before, he’s like Van Damme with this stuff.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jun 26, 2008 8:57 PM CDT
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It is from Deep Goat.
But you’re still not finding out WHO Deep Goat is. Ever.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:19 PM CDT
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I know it's Carrie, but that's just between you and me...
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jun 26, 2008 9:20 PM CDT
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It's not.
That much I’ll tell you.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:21 PM CDT
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I know, it was a joke...we all have a special place in our hearts for Muskat!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jun 26, 2008 9:23 PM CDT
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LMAO
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:24 PM CDT
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Or Ed.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jun 26, 2008 9:21 PM CDT
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Wrong again.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:22 PM CDT
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that would explain the extra time he had
to acclimatize…
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jun 27, 2008 10:06 AM CDT
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Only on Thursdays.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jun 27, 2008 10:06 AM CDT
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And I'm definitely no insider..
But I do know someone in the front office, as a family friend, and I also heard something about C.C.
Devin Hester, you are rediculous! -Jeff Joniak
by ARAM FOR MVP on Jun 26, 2008 8:51 PM CDT 0 recs
Then you heard the same stuff I have, I presume.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:20 PM CDT
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Time to throw caution to the wind
While I’d be leery about trading for Sabathia unless the Cubs had a real good chance to sign him to an extension—there’s no doubt that Sabathia could make a great 1-2 punch with Carlos Zambrano … for several years to come if they can sign him…Go get him, Jim.
The Cubbies would be in a great position to sign CC, if that’s what the Cubbies desired as they certainly have the resources. But why “be leery about trading” for CC unless the Cubbies can sign him to an extension? The Cubbies have spent a fortune on this years (and last years) teams, why be conservative?
As it is right now the Cubbies have two strong starters one hurt and the other with a very strong start this season but a track record that screams get another strong starter if you can.
by DrCrawdad on Jun 26, 2008 8:52 PM CDT 0 recs
Don't we want the Indians to sign him FIRST, then trade him to us?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jun 26, 2008 8:58 PM CDT
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WAIT A MINUTE...How did you know that?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jun 26, 2008 9:17 PM CDT
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I specialized in divination at sabermagician school.
by cwyers on
Jun 26, 2008 9:19 PM CDT
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z

more cat pictures
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jun 26, 2008 9:44 PM CDT
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Probably
IF the Cubbies win the World Series with CC rotation they are in a great position to sign him.
Plus, think of the fun of getting to see CC regularly bat and potentially run the bases. He’s a career .300 hitter in 40 AB.
“I feel the earth move under my feet…”
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 26, 2008 9:06 PM CDT
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I think you have a good point here.
If CC comes here and the Cubs DO win, I’d imagine he’d probably find the atmosphere here something he’d want to stay in.
JMHO, of course.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:20 PM CDT
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And IF they win...
... who cares what prospects they gave up? Even if CC then left and signed elsewhere, who cares? Ok, you’d like to sign him, but that pain of him leaving would be assuaged by the championship.
And it’s a voice of experience, lots of my friends who are fans of the same team as I bitched and moaned about trading Reed/Morse/Olivo for Garcia, but know one complains now.
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 26, 2008 9:30 PM CDT
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True but
getting CC does not guarantee a championship. You also have to consider if we give up a bunch of prospects, don’t win and don’t sign CC.
by madeindetroit on
Jun 26, 2008 9:59 PM CDT
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Prospects can spoil...
... and what good do they do for you when that happens?
The Cubbies have a very good offense. The starting pitching really needs to be beefed up (this in spite of the articles and columns about how strong and deep the Cubbies starting staff was this year).
And maybe you could win with Zambrano-Dempster-Lilly, but the chances are better with CC.
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 26, 2008 10:08 PM CDT
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Don't get me wrong
I agree 100% that we would be better with CC. I was just pointing out the scenario that you didn’t mention.
by madeindetroit on
Jun 26, 2008 10:15 PM CDT
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well, the fallback there is the two draft picks Cubs would get if CC walks
not that anyone would really care about that if October comes and we didn’t win. But it is something of a safety net and indeed a big part of some clubs’ strategies.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on
Jun 26, 2008 10:25 PM CDT
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Good Point
I always forget about the 2 draft picks
by madeindetroit on
Jun 26, 2008 10:26 PM CDT
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one more thing
In addition to my comment about their O. The NL is there for the Cubbies taking. Time for them to take it. They can’t be satisfied with winning the NL Central or getting to the series. Stock up to win it and future be…
by DrCrawdad on
Jun 26, 2008 10:17 PM CDT
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imagine the poor diamond
if CC & Fielder were both on it at the same time.
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on
Jun 26, 2008 10:30 PM CDT
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Ok, with my Cleveland ties, clearly I'm biased...
...but I’ve tried really really hard to ignore that bias in the last month or so and try to objectively understand what the Cubs have that would make sense in exchange for CC. And unless Marmol or Soto are part of the equation, I just don’t see it working.
So let me turn it around to the rest of you – first, please try really really hard to ignore your Cubbie bias, and then try to objectively explain what package of Cubs’ talent would make sense for Cleveland.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jun 26, 2008 9:03 PM CDT 0 recs
It'll have to start with Gallagher, I'm guessing.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jun 26, 2008 9:22 PM CDT
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If Cleveland likes any of Pie, Hill, Murton, it helps matters, but let's assume they don't...
5 years of Gallagher v. 1/2 year of CC is not negligible to start. Sure, there are higher ceiling prospects out there, but I’m going to work under the assumption that none of them are available. Why, for example, would the Yankees trade Hughes now for CC when they wouldn’t trade him for Johan who they knew they would be able to sign? Nobody knows where CC will go or wants to go. So, if the Cubs offer up Gallagher – he may be the best pitching prospect on the market.
Besides Gallagher, Eric Patterson may have value to the Indians as another 2B option. He may not. Donald Veal is probably back to being a top 100 prospect, if not he’s top 150. If I was the Indians, I would be asking for Mark DeRosa, because DeRosa’s flexibility covers all the positions I have question marks at. I’d also be interested in some ‘pen options.
So, a DeRosa-less trade package could be Gallagher, Veal, Wuertz, Patterson, Ceda,
More complicated – we add in DeRosa and Asdrubal Cabrera, matching Cabrera and his uncertainty with a Cub uncertainty:
Sabathia and Asdrubal
for
Gallagher, DeRosa, Hill, Veal
That said, I’m not very good at figuring out exactly what would work, but that seems like a start to me.
by DGU on
Jun 27, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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I'm not sure I would do that deal.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jun 27, 2008 10:18 AM CDT
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That's usually a sign
that I’m getting close to what it would cost.
Which deal wouldn’t you do? I figure the DeRosa deal improves our defense a bunch if Lou moves Theriot back to 2B w/ DeRosa gone. A Cedeno/Asdrubal SS battle is likely to produce at least one decent SS option.
I’d also be quick to trade Veal, because I think his walks will not sit well with Lou and he’s the type of prospect likely to go the Pie route under Lou’s management.
by DGU on
Jun 27, 2008 10:23 AM CDT
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Take out Derosa and put in Patterson
and I’d become more comfortable with the deal
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jun 27, 2008 10:24 AM CDT
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I figure DeRosa has a lot more value to the Indians
who don’t have options that have worked that well at 2B, 3B, and the corner OF spots. I also figure trading DeRosa is the only way to fix our defense, which will be almost as important as getting CC and more important if it’s not CC but Bedard/Burnett.
by DGU on
Jun 27, 2008 10:27 AM CDT
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I dunno.
Gutierrez and Francisco are performing serviceably, and Blake has really come on strong. What they really need is a power bat to replace Hafner, while he’s rehabbing, and a second baseman
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jun 27, 2008 10:29 AM CDT
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Gutierrez has a .282 OBP.
Since June 15, Francisco’s hit .172/.314/.276. That’s the thing about the Indians – I don’t trust Francisco, Gutierrez, Choo, or even Blake really – but I wouldn’t want to give up on any of them completely, either. Having DeRosa gives me solid OBP to plug into whichever of those positions goes cold.
Plus, trading DeRosa will upgrade our team defense quite a bit if Lou is reasonable and moves Theriot over to 2B.
by DGU on
Jun 27, 2008 10:36 AM CDT
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I see your point.
I still don’t like the idea of trading Derosa, especially considering CC is likely just a rental


