Cubbie Nation (or whatever you call it): Why It Works.
Why do the Cubs fans pull more than Marlins, White Sox, and even Yankees?
Cubbie *Coterie* (give me a better word if you don't like nation) and Red Sox Nation. For years, these two communities have had a treaty of understanding that had grown between them after years of failures and curses have fallen upon their beloved baseball clubs. Though the Red Sox have finally stepped into the light, the Cubbies have yet to even near the promise land. The last time they won the World Series was 1908. The last time they were even in the Fall Classic was 1945. Compare that to the Evil Empire. The Yankees have won the World Series more times than I can count on all my fingers and toes. Even in recent history, they have won in 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000. They have been in the Series as recently as 2003 losing to the Florida Marlins.
The Marlins are another story. This is a team that has never lost in the playoffs. In their short history, they have won the Major League Baseball Championship twice: 1997 and 2003, both as a wild card. Not only that, they represent the Miami, Florida area, which means they have 5.5 million fans to support them—more than Boston (4.8 million) and Chicago (4.6 million per Chicago team). New York has more (a staggering 10.2 million per New York team), but the Fish ought to be in a great situation for community support.
Why is it then that the Marlins average just fewer than 43%* in attendance since 2001 in their 36,000+ stadium? Boston pulls a sellout crowd of 37,000 to every game over that same period, and the Lovable Losers are just behind them at above 96% (Wrigley Field holds just past 41,000).
The highest attendance is obviously not for regularly winning teams; compare it to the New York Yankees. They average under 86%, and in the midst of their last winning legacy (2001 – 2003), they were below 78%. It wasn’t until they started struggling that the fans came out. And sure, Yankee Stadium is much larger (holds almost 57,000)—but, the fan base dwarfs any other team. If you want to break it down per person, the New York area has nearly 179 people for every baseball seat (Mets and Yankees), Miami has 151 people for every seat, Boston has about 129 people for each seat, and Chicago a paltry 111.
Take it another way; each member of the Yankee’s immediate fan base (say, half of NY Metro because of the Mets) attends games .48% of the time, Red Sox fans: .78% of the time, Chicago Cubs immediate area (as shared with the White Sox) fans attend .87% of the time, and Marlins fans: each fan base member attends just .28% of the time (way to go Cubbie fans).
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
0 recs |
34 comments
Comments
WGN
I truly do think that the reason the Cubs are so popular is having every game on WGN on national cable for so long. The Marlins have no tradition. The White Sox aren’t a regional draw like the Cubs. The Yankees and Red Sox are the only teams that come close to having the Cubs fan base.
by jeff_pico on Jun 28, 2008 1:39 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Going back before the superstation, the Cubs had all their home games on TV for decades…. and they were in the afternoon, where kids (like me) could watch after school every day. This hooked at least two generations of kids.
Also, the Cubs were a regional draw back in the 1940s and 1950s from places where there was no major league baseball. Many people from Wisconsin were Cubs fans before there was a major league team there.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 28, 2008 4:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the superstation hooked many more fans nationally and abroad.
by Fraggin Judge on Jun 28, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll go along with that
I can’t imagine growing up during the seventies without the Cubs on WGN (tv and radio) all summer long. The fact that every game was on meant that hardly a spring or summer day went by during my formative years that the Cubs were not a part of.
by bluekoolaide on Jun 28, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was the same for me in the 60's.
And of course, when I was just getting into the age where kids really get to know the game (10-11-12, etc), that’s when the Banks/Santo/Williams/Jenkins Cubs made their run. I was 12 in 1969.
It was exciting, thrilling, and then unbelievably heartbreaking. We’re hoping this year’s team is something special, and it may be, and win not only for themselves, but for all of us who lived through the disappointments, AND Ernie and Billy and Fergie and Ron, etc.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 28, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I grew up in Mexico
watching Superstation and idolizing Ryno.
by chilango2 on Jun 28, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
you’re likely to catch flack for lumping us in with this awful “nation” business, which might be the most irritating name for a group ever.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jun 28, 2008 1:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 28, 2008 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 2
Call them something else. That “nation “thing” has been abused enough already.
by Fraggin Judge on Jun 28, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
New Word
How about coterie (an intimate and often exclusive group of persons with a unifying common interest or purpose)? There is a nice alliteration with “Cubbie Coterie”.
by rusty. on Jun 28, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubbie
Too much Cubbie.
I don’t hate it, because it’s something my Dad used to say 35 years ago when he was enthusiastic about the team during a winning streak, or if we were looking for a come from behind rally, but the term is just used too much lately. Just my opinion, but using it too much just emphasizes the cute, cuddly, “twee” side of Cub fandom. I wasn’t crazy about the name of Al’s new site when he first christened it for that reason, but at least it includes an image of potentially gruesome and painful bleeding to counter that effect.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jun 28, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Just FYI, the site name was given to me by SBN - I didn’t choose it myself. I’d have liked “View From The Bleachers” myself, but that one was - and is still—taken.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 28, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just wondering
Which was first, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Brew Crew Ball? It’s unfortunate that both share the same acronym. I would think SBN would be interested in a little differentiation.
"The ever-changing kaleidescope of raw reality would defeat the human mind by its complexity, except for the mind's ability to abstract, to pick out parts and think of them as the whole." -Thomas Sowell
"Whoo, boy! Next time around, bring me back my stomach!" -Jack Brickhouse
by Goodie1969 on Jun 28, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that came into play, actually.
But this site debuted first.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 28, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
And I’d cut out that “Lovable Losers” stuff too.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 28, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its part media.....
The Yanks and Red Sox have been on national TV for years, especially in August and September and lots of Octobers. The Cubs on WGN, the Braves who used to be nothing in attendance get on cable and become a big deal. Used to be able see the Braves on TV everyday for years Here in western Michigan, not everyone is a Cub fan, but lots of ppl watch the Cubs because they are on TV most of the time. Also, radio has something to do with it. The only ball club that comes in as clear on the radio here in west Michigan as the local station carrying the Tigers is… WGN. Half the summer I can get the Yanks on the radio after 8pm. The Red Sox stations plaster New England with radio waves all summer. Another part of it is history. The Cubs go back to the beginning of the National League, Boston had a team also (now in Atlanta), NY had teams shortly after. In LA for years they had the minor league powerhouse Angels. So, if your grandfather/mother, your dad/mother were fans you have a good chance also. The White Sox have a slight following here since winning the big one, but you can’t hardly hear them on the radio ever, and the TV coverage since increasing has helped. But, they don’t get the media coverage here that the Cubs do. Although, it might interest all of you in Chicago, when the local stations in Grand Rapids give the sports scores for local teams they give the Tigers, the Cubs and the White Sox . I remember when it was only the Tigers, then the Tigers and Cubs having scores given. Cleveland and the Reds have had teams for a long time. But neither is carried by a media powerhouse. Milwaukee isn’t very far from here and I can hear Ueker (sp?) doing the play by play everyday if I wanted too. But, no media powerhouse so not a big following here where I live either. The final part is winning. While the Cubs haven’t won the big one sine 1908, they’ve been in situations where if they woulda….. that gets them media exposure. Plus, as the years pile up of not winning the big one teams get exposure for that. Look at the Red Sox and White Sox. Everyone knew they hadn’t won in a long time and the media played it up and ppl watched them when they would get into the playoffs rooting for the guys who hadn’t won it in a long time. The Yanks, well they are in the playoffs almost every year, the Red Sox got on Tv for years because of the rivalry with the Yanks and now because they are in the hunt every year, the Braves had a long streak of post season exposure, the White Sox who used to draw next to nothing in the late 80’s started winning and are getting more exposure now, the Indians used to have a bigger following when they were winning, etc.
So, I think its a combination of things gets some teams huge draws. Going back to the Cubs and their 96% attendance rating. In the midwest who has the media coverage the Cubs have? The only club coming close now is the White Sox and it had definitely helped them. But, Detroit, Cincy, Cleveland, St. Louis, the Twins and the Brewers do not have half the coverage outside their localities the Cubs do. I can see the Cubs on TV as often as the Tigers, more than the White Sox and I never hardly ever see any of the other midwest teams on Tv, except the Dirty Birds because, well they win a lot of ballgames. Just a insight. When walking around in Grand Rapids the team hat I see most in the summer is the Yankees. This is followed by the Tigers and then the Cubs. This is a great question and I am interested in seeing other ppl’s insights. Thanks for posting this. :)
"My favorite umpire is a dead one."
-Johnny Evers
by MiCubsFan on Jun 28, 2008 8:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No paragraph breaks
can’t read.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jun 28, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
that’s one intimidating block of text. White space is your friend.
We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez
by Emelie on Jun 28, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this forum
I like a line break at least every three lines. (I see I violated that above, but yes – more white space per text is good, what with the long lines and small fonts).
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jun 28, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
There’s probably some real interesting stuff up there, but I can’t read it. It’s visually irritating.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 28, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I managed to get through some of it
And he makes some pretty good points. But although Milwaukee and Grand Rapids are close to each other as the crow flies, driving from one to the other isn’t easy. Maybe that’s why the Brewers aren’t a big deal over there.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 28, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs attendance records are a fairly new phenomenon
Just look at recent history. Elia’s tirade was focused almost squarely on a vocal minority, i.e. the fans who bothered to show up, and there weren’t many. The Cubs are experiencing an “up” cycle in popularity, perhaps due to their promising trend toward winning, which, let’s face it, nobody wants to miss. The allure of Wrigley, one of baseball’s holy shrines, cannot be discounted either. With the demise of Yankee Stadium this year, Fenway and Wrigley will stand alone atop the mountain of ballparks as the last bastions of history. Florida is another matter entirely. Who wants to go see baseball played in a football stadium? Attendance figures in Miami will serve as my answer.
I would submit that baseball is, for whatever reason, a primarily Northern/Midwestern tradition, and although popular in other regions, doesn’t have the deep impact there that it does in the older markets. The Dodgers have their fan base, to be sure, but do people in Cali live and die by their boys in blue as they once did in Brooklyn? No way. Ditto the Giants after their move from New York. Traditions with a rich history tend to flourish best where their roots lie. NASCAR anyone? Count the racing fans in Boston and Atlanta and you will see a marked difference, I imagine.
As for the Cubs and Red Sox, I agree that both have a shared history of being the underdog, while the Yankees attract frontrunner-type fans outside of their geographical areas. It’s a great American tradition to root against the odds, for the impossible to become possible, because legends are made of such stuff. This may explain the worldwide Cubs love to a degree. Now that Boston is the so-called “City of Champions,” will their allure diminish? Time will only tell.
"The ever-changing kaleidescope of raw reality would defeat the human mind by its complexity, except for the mind's ability to abstract, to pick out parts and think of them as the whole." -Thomas Sowell
"Whoo, boy! Next time around, bring me back my stomach!" -Jack Brickhouse
by Goodie1969 on Jun 28, 2008 10:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Helping Out A Fellow Michiganian
Here’s MiCubsFan’s post, with a little reformatting:
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on Jun 28, 2008 11:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's Part Media
The Yanks and Red Sox have been on national TV for years, especially in August and September and lots of Octobers. The Cubs on WGN. The Braves, who used to be nothing in attendance, get on cable and become a big deal. Used to be able see the Braves on TV everyday for years. Here in western Michigan, not everyone is a Cub fan, but lots of ppl watch the Cubs because they are on TV most of the time.
Also, radio has something to do with it. The only ball club that comes in as clear on the radio here in west Michigan as the local station carrying the Tigers is… WGN. Half the summer I can get the Yanks on the radio after 8pm. The Red Sox stations plaster New England with radio waves all summer.
Another part of it is history. The Cubs go back to the beginning of the National League, Boston had a team also (now in Atlanta), NY had teams shortly after. In LA for years they had the minor league powerhouse Angels. So, if your grandfather/mother, your dad/mother were fans you have a good chance also.
The White Sox have a slight following here since winning the big one, but you can’t hardly hear them on the radio ever, and the TV coverage since increasing has helped. But, they don’t get the media coverage here that the Cubs do. Although, it might interest all of you in Chicago, when the local stations in Grand Rapids give the sports scores for local teams they give the Tigers, the Cubs and the White Sox . I remember when it was only the Tigers, then the Tigers and Cubs having scores given.
Cleveland and the Reds have had teams for a long time. But neither is carried by a media powerhouse. Milwaukee isn’t very far from here and I can hear Ueker (sp?) doing the play by play everyday if I wanted too. But, no media powerhouse, so not a big following here where I live either.
The final part is winning. While the Cubs haven’t won the big one sine 1908, they’ve been in situations “where if they woulda” – and that gets them media exposure. Plus, as the years pile up of not winning the big one, teams get exposure for that. Look at the Red Sox and White Sox. Everyone knew they hadn’t won in a long time and the media played it up and ppl watched them when they would get into the playoffs, rooting for the guys who hadn’t won it in a long time. The Yanks…well they are in the playoffs almost every year. The Red Sox got on TV for years because of the rivalry with the Yanks and now because they are in the hunt every year. The Braves had a long streak of post season exposure. The White Sox, who used to draw next to nothing in the late 80’s, started winning and are getting more exposure now. The Indians used to have a bigger following when they were winning, etc.
So, I think its a combination of things gets some teams huge draws. Going back to the Cubs and their 96% attendance rating. In the Midwest who has the media coverage the Cubs have? The only club coming close now is the White Sox and it had definitely helped them. But, Detroit, Cincy, Cleveland, St. Louis, the Twins and the Brewers do not have half the coverage outside their localities the Cubs do. I can see the Cubs on TV as often as the Tigers, more than the White Sox and I never hardly ever see any of the other midwest teams on Tv, except the Dirty Birds because, well they win a lot of ballgames.
Just an insight. When walking around in Grand Rapids the team hat I see most in the summer is the Yankees. This is followed by the Tigers and then the Cubs.
This is a great question and I am interested in seeing other ppl’s insights. Thanks for posting this. :)
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on Jun 28, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, That Sucked
I edited it in Word but the paragraph breaks went AWOL!
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on Jun 28, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks Cali, for some reason when I try to make a paragraph ....
it highlights it in blue and cuts it off…... I figure its a browser setting that is making it do this and am trying to figure it out. Until I get it figured out I’ll just refrain from posting. Appreciate you reformatting.
"My favorite umpire is a dead one."
-Johnny Evers
by MiCubsFan on Jun 28, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
dont let this “Nation” thing catch on. The way that Red Sox fans refer to their self as “The Nation” absolutely kills me every time I hear it. Can we just be called Fans?
by cvan84 on Jun 29, 2008 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Nation" is thrown around too much
Yes. The last thing I want to see is “Cubs (or Cubbie) Nation”
To borrow a phrase, “I thought we were an autonomous collective?”
Let the Red Sox have their nation.
I’m happy with just being a simple Cubs fan. Though I can bleed Cubbie blue if you
want LOL [though I don’t know how I can do that if I already bleed Husker red??]
by BigDcubbie on Jun 29, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dig being part of the Cubs Nation

It’s already been coined and used for a few years. You’d better get used to it.
I’ve been posting as Cubnational ever since being here and don’t expect to change it anytime soon. I am just one of the Many – as are you. Let me explain why I think we should take the name and run with it.
Of all three of the fan bases mentioned above, only the Cubs Nation – I think – truly has national appeal for all of the reasons mentioned above. The national media, MLB romanticism and the Nation diaspora all over have pretty much made recognition of the Cubs a nationwide affair. The Yanks/Red Sox shtick has been an ESPN delight for years and a New England institution .. but the saga of the Cubs’ eternal quest for the WS has transcended their own rivalry and entered into national consciousness like never before – for good or for bad. And I think, of them all, we hearken from a sports fan culture that exhibits more tenacious loyalty for their team then any other. It could be said that the fan bases have the same kind of diasporae – but none, I feel, as true blue to their team, year in and year out, then the Cubs Nation itself ..
Two years ago, it wasn’t too cool to be a Cubs fan, was it? Heck, just five years ago, who cared? Now, with the lame “anniversary” year at hand, and the Cubs enjoying their moments in the full sun of national attention, the diehard, longtime Cub base is finding itself basked in baseball glory. To me, to be called a member of a “Cub Nation” means being a member of a fan base that has stuck together around a common passion, a unified social contract celebrating baseball at Clark/Addison, that has made us the best fan base around. I could care less if the Red Sox or Yanks call themselves a “nation” or not. We are still a group of fans who I think have more moxie and more resilient dedication to our team then theirs will ever have. The Cubs Nation stuck together, endured and even prospered during the most dismal of times – which these certainly, for now, certainly are not.
The Cherokee nation called itself “the principal people” in comparison with the other Native American tribes around it when it was first contacted by American settlers. As far as I’m concerned, the Cubs Nation fills the bill about being “the principle fan base” around. I’m not going to go around using the term to beat it over the head of anyone, but I like the idea of being part of a great sports fan family … and the Cub Nation is how I look at it. I’m grown up enough to recognize, however, that it’s in the end all just labels.
In the ultimate scheme of things, I’m a diehard, lifelong, irresistably dedicated Chicago Cubs fan, as is my family. But I do like the thought of being a “Nation.” Works for my romanticism. Of course, I’m shamelessly biased, but that comes with the territory.
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
by cubnational on Jun 29, 2008 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
























