Outfoxed: Cubs 3, Dodgers 7
Well, that was a waste of an afternoon.
My son Mark's Park District ballgame got rained out. Thus, I was able to watch the entire 7-3 Cubs loss to the Dodgers -- that is, when the local Fox weatherman wasn't breaking in with tornado warnings.
But before I talk a little about the game, let me say something about Fox TV Sports. This is only the second time the Cubs have been Fox-ified this year (May 3 in St. Louis was the other), and the first time I've really watched it beginning to end. Keep in mind that IF this is still going to be that special season we've all been waiting for, the NLCS and World Series -- up to fourteen of the final games of the season -- are all on Fox.
We are in trouble, folks. The entire broadcast team is horrid, with the exception of Eric Karros (where'd he get that hair, incidentally?), who looks like he'd like to bolt out of that studio at any second rather than sit next to Jeannie Zelasko for one more moment.
Here's my message for Fox.
Stop with the 1908 stuff, already. We know.
WE FREAKING KNOW.
It's been 100 years. Yes, we know and so does everyone else!! Stop focusing on the past and look toward the future.
OK, I'm done with that. Oh, wait, there's one more thing.
Tim McCarver has got to go. Period. He's not funny or insightful; his act seems stuck in the 1970's.
I mean, seriously. When I was a kid, we didn't have bad broadcasters clogging up the national level. We had Vin Scully, we had Tony Kubek, as I got older we had Bob Costas. (Say, Kubek is only 73 years old. Couldn't they ask him back?) Fox, instead, has Tim McCarver and Mark Grace. And don't even get me started with what we're going to have to hear calling tomorrow's game on ESPN. Is this the best they can do? (The answer to that question is "No", but they don't seem to want to listen to us, their audience.)
OK, now I really AM done ranting about that. WHEN the Cubs make the later rounds of the postseason, just turn the sound off and listen to Pat & Ron.
After today, you're probably questioning that "later rounds of the postseason" remark, and this is the first game in quite some time that the Cubs really looked bad. Too bad, too, because Carlos Zambrano actually threw six good innings; unfortunately, his defense deserted him in the seventh, with Aramis Ramirez charged with one error and Kosuke Fukudome dropping a catchable fly ball (the latter would have ended the seventh inning with the score only 4-3 Dodgers). You simply can't give a major league team five outs in any inning and expect to win.
All of this was after the Cubs had fashioned leads of 2-0 and 3-2 against the tough Derek Lowe, and even though Z had given up a ton of hits, he had gotten out of every jam up to the point where Russell Martin homered to tie the game at 2. In fact, all three homers hit today -- Martin's, Alfonso Soriano's, and the killer three-run blast from Matt Kemp that put the game away -- didn't seem as if they were going to go out when they first left the bat. All seemed routine fly balls that wound up carrying; Dodger Stadium seems more conducive to that during the day than at night.
And those defensive lapses were the story of the game; otherwise Z and Lowe matched up pretty well, and once the game was out of hand, Neal Cotts threw an inning and a third without allowing anything else, saving the rest of the bullpen for tomorrow.
It will be nice for the Cubs to get back home Tuesday, even if only for a three-game homestand (thanks again for nothing, Computer Schedule Maker Man), but first there's the business of splitting this series tomorrow, and let tomorrow be the day that Jason Marquis has his renaissance as a major league pitcher. The Cubs need tomorrow's game, and that may be the first time I've said this all year. If you're in the Chicago area, try to stay dry till then.
0 recs |
205 comments
Comments
How about Theriot's defense?
You mentioned Ramirez and Fukudome, and rightfully so. But—
The first run was a result of an infield hit on a routine grounder behind second that Theriot couldn’t get over in time. (Actually, the runner looked out, but it shouldn’t have been close.)
In the 7th, Soto had Pierre dead to rights at second, but Theriot failed to catch the ball—that would have been 2 outs with the bases empty.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 7, 2008 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Theriot dropped two balls that should've resulted in CS's
Pinella remarked on it.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he DID do a postgame?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
And here’s what he had to say about the 7th inning:
"We seemed to self-destruct that inning. We gave them quite a few outs," Piniella said. "We’ve got to figure out why Theriot’s dropping balls on tags at second base. That we can’t do. I don’t know how we only ended up (being charged) with one error that inning. I think Zambrano lost his concentration out there, and that was it."
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lest I be remiss:
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, good
he noticed. Also, good, my guess was precisely right on what Lou said (although in this case, it wasn’t rocket science… :D)
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2008 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lou is exactly right.
Sounds like he’s getting a little disgusted with Theriot’s defense. Maybe we’ll see ONEDEC tomorrow.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 7, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one can only hope
Restraining the urge to get giggly....
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jun 7, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder, though
Has he figured out the ‘rag arm’ part yet?
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 7, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe.
Seems to me that Lou is okay with a guy with defensive limitations doing everything he can within those limitations, but when a guy starts screwing up routine things on routine basis (let’s not forget the number of DP exchanges Theriot has botched), Lou seems to lose patience really quick. Th drawback here is that Ronny seems to have already irked Lou so much that Lou may keep running Theriot out there.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he wouldn't move DeRo
to short and put Fontenot in at second… would he?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2008 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do that
when he can leave Derosa at 2nd and put Ronny at SS?
Most likely, however, he’ll do neither.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because he doesn't seem to like Ronny.
and he has a major, ah, Harden, for the Cajun Ninja.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2008 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but I doubt it...
First impressions seem to mean A LOT to Piniella. He sees Theriot as very fundamentally sound and a gamer, and he sees Cedeno as a screwup. It’ll take a while for those impressions to change. And as long as Theriot is hitting .300+, I think Piniella will remain convinced that Theriot needs to play everyday.
by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to hear that he did
I missed the first one; I was at a birthday party. I heard that it was in the dirt. The one in the 7th, though—wow.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 7, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to hear Lou mentioned it, that is
not that Theriot dropped 2
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 7, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one in the dirt was bad too...
it was a nice short hop, and Theriot had plenty of time to handle it. Not a perfect throw, but a solid one, and definitely one that a good defensive SS picks cleanly. And yes, the second drop was just plain bad.
by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
that was exactly what I thought to myself reading this. If Theriot gets either of those throws from Soto, it’s a different game.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that's also true.
Both those plays should have been CS’s. I guess I was just too disgusted with that 7th inning to remember the rest.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 7, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pull for Deion
Let Prime Time take care of Stupid head, like he did way back when(he sucked then also)!
Grant Earnhart
by ernie87 on Jun 8, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Fox goes
Yeah, brutual. On Fontenot’s double, they zoomed in so tight on Pierre that I had no idea where the ball was, as it was loud where I was watching.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 7, 2008 7:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i too
was confused as hell thanks to the brilliant camera work. i thought he caught it, had to read his reaction to find out what happened
by Waveland Ave on Jun 8, 2008 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I was a kid, we didn't have bad broadcasters clogging up the national level.
Clogging…..HAHA LOL! Great one-liner Al!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jun 8, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Sometimes I get a hit without even trying. Sort of like Jim Edmonds.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zzzing
you’re quick today Al.
I’m surprised as anyone Edmonds is getting the bases dirty. It took him a while but let’s hope he can keep it up.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jun 8, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wake up
offense!!
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
by cubsluver22 on Jun 7, 2008 7:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stop focusing on the past?
Like all the people around Wrigley who say this year is destiny because of….you know….100? Maybe they’re just echoing the “vide” coming out of Chicago?
by Tackle Box on Jun 7, 2008 7:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you can acknowledge the past
without focusing PURELY on it. And I’ve yet to hear anyone say its a year of destiney because of the 100 years. More because of how we’d been playing lately.
Restraining the urge to get giggly....
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jun 7, 2008 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People were calling year of destiny
before the season started and it had A LOT to do with the 100 years. If you have never heard it in regards to anything other than how the team has played you are either living in a cave or you are in total denial.
by Tackle Box on Jun 7, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you think ESPN and FOX aren't completely blowing the whole 100 year thing
out of proportion, then you’re living in cave or are in total denial. If Cub fans want to make use of it and say it mean this is the year, I say that’s our privilege. We earned with years of putting with bad baseball and worse management. FOX and ESPN are just doing what they always do: taking something wonderful and ruining it.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They focus on the cliche
that is what the media is about, reducing everything to the lowest common denominator and blowing it out of proportion.
by bubbamike the one and only on Jun 7, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The media is there not to show the game
it is there to sell product and you get audience for your product by sensationalizing whatever it is you are covering, be it baseball or mass murder.
by bubbamike the one and only on Jun 7, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems to be what they think, anyway.
I think they are there to show the game, they just think we want to be entertained, missing the obvious point: the game is the entertainment.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they're only following
MLB’s lead on that—look at the way ballparks were built for a while, with giant TV screens and constant noise.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LSA
n/t
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
by cubsluver22 on Jun 8, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs haven't won for 100 years?
They don’t seem that old, especially Fontenot.
"This field, this game...it reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again." ~ Terence Mann
by chr15 on Jun 8, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We made way too many mistakes today... gave them so many extra outs.
That’s how you lose.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jun 7, 2008 8:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Take your pick about what was worse
our sloppy defense or the lack of production from the middle of the order.
Personally I’m more worried right now about our batting slump.
We’re going to see what we’re made of tomorrow night-good teams bounch back from brutal games like todays’
by bluekoolaide on Jun 7, 2008 8:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The hitting will return
Theriot’s fielding ain’t gettin’ any better.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 7, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not worried about the bats.
Its the leather and the pitching that has me worried.
Restraining the urge to get giggly....
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jun 7, 2008 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "batting slump"
might have more to do with two pretty good pitching performances by the Dodgers the past two days.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 7, 2008 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
Lowe and Kuroda were pretty good. Lowe has really turned the corner after a pretty poor start.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said a couple weeks ago... Lowe is my pick.
But, with the Dodgers likely to remain in contention, we’ll never get him.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jun 8, 2008 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot
Rough day for Theriot. I didn’t see the whole game, and haven’t checked the box. Hopefully he did something at the plate.
Ouch. This one hurts.
by Dave in the basement on Jun 7, 2008 8:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
not really
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 7, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
0-4
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we talk about the officating for a minute?
Because this might just be the worst crew I’ve ever come in contact with.
No low strikes. Inconsistent corners. ANOTHER blown call at first.
AWFUL!
Restraining the urge to get giggly....
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jun 7, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They are pretty bad
And I hope to heck Angel Hernandez won’t be working the plate Sunday night. He is atrocious.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 7, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will be
Umpires rotate clockwise around the bases.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 7, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yikes...
Makes me ill thinking of it..
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 7, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, he's bad
but hey, Marquis is pitching!
sigh
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 7, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They deserve each other
n/t
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 7, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angel Hernandez, Jason Marquis, Joe Morgan, Yanks, BoSox blather all night....
Might be a good night to leave the tv off and just listen to Pat and Ron.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 7, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Make it four.
One for Angel, one for Jason, one for ESPN, and one for a victory dance!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’ll drink to that. Especially the victory dance!
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 7, 2008 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the warning
I’ll make sure the liquor cabinet is filled before the game!
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on Jun 8, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, as NBF likely knows,
this is Froemming’s old crew; they’re just carrying on a proud tradition of inept umpiring.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize that
But it figures, doesn’t it?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jun 7, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Officiating is like the weather.
Both teams have to deal with it – ask Jeff Kent about the umpires and he’ll probably talk your ear off. If the Cubs had made the plays they were supposed to and done them well, we wouldn’t have to talk about it. It’s hard to ask for the benefit of the doubt on a play at first when the shortstop’s throwing three feet wide of the first baseman.
by cwyers on Jun 7, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but...
... it’s not just this crew. It’s been happening all over baseball, with the blown home run calls and other blatantly bad calls; there was a horrendous one in Toronto that may have cost the White Sox a game last month; there was a terrible call in Houston last night (I was watching the Cardinals/Astros game; if you ever wonder why Houston isn’t going anywhere this year, they left 11 on base including the bases loaded twice, once with nobody out) that went against the Astros… that’s two right off the top of my head, and I know there are more in games NOT involving the Cubs.
MLB has GOT to do something about this.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 4:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At Dodger's Stadium today, on the way out...
I ran into a shocked Cubs fan ranting, “Zambrano…13 hits?...un..f’n..believable”. Pretty much summed up our feelings at the time too.
At least we were spared the mindless FOX babble-broadcast.
Incidentally, most of the Dodgers fans I talked to over the past three games seem to think it is ‘our year’ and have written their team off this season. And we didn’t get hassled as much by the locals as we did last year, so that was nice too.
Let’s get them tomorrow Jason Marquis – another national audience awaits!
by JFCubFan on Jun 7, 2008 8:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree with Al
Didn’t watch the game today. That being said Fox Sports coverage of the Cubs (and major league baseball in general) is BRUTAL. It’s a ballgame folks, not a forum to flash all your whiz bang techno tricks and sounds. Joe Buck is a smarmy ass. Tim McCarver has been brutal for a decade. Thom Brennamann turns into an ass during his Fox duties, etc.
Very rarely do I watch Fox baseball games. Even in the playoffs. It’s to the point where I will turn on Pat and Ron and mute the TV if we make the playoffs this year.
Get Rich Harden !! 7 starts, 3-0, 41 IP, 49 Ks, 2.61 ERA
by MDBNIU on Jun 7, 2008 8:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it's one thing to be a bad announcer....
it’s another thing to be so bad that you have a website dedicated to it. I skimmed the site but havent really read much of it.
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
The TIm McCarver quote of the year: “If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times.” – July 8th, 2006
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The mission is simple...play .500 ball on the road
Do that and continue to kick butt at home at a National League Central crown is ours. Can’t get too worried about today or last night.
The problems facing this ballclub aren’t many. The most acute is the pressing need for a primetime starting pitcher. We can’t keep going with 4/5’s of our rotation being 5 and 6 inning guys. The imperative is also to obtain a powerful punch to complement Carlos Zambrano once the playoffs get here.
Derrek Lee needs a couple days off. I think it would do wonders to get him rejuvenated.
Get Rich Harden !! 7 starts, 3-0, 41 IP, 49 Ks, 2.61 ERA
by MDBNIU on Jun 7, 2008 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with our goal to
be .500 on the road. But what worries me (I brought his up yesterday) is that we are 10-16 on the road since our initial 3 game sweep of the Pirates. We have only won one series since then (the Padres series this week).
The reality is that this team seems to be very focused at home and seems to mentally let down on the road. At least they play with great intensity at home. I am just befuddled as to how this can be a team with such a different approach (home v away).
I think Lou will get the road woes figured out. A 4-3 road trip with a win today would do a lot to help this team’s “road confidence.” I would just like to see the swagger translate into the road uniforms too.
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on Jun 8, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCarver blows!!!
I immediately had a bad feeling about today knowing Tim McCarver was calling the game. I compare Tim McCarver to a functioning retard who unfortunately is working prime time games. Sunday night isn’t going to get much better with the ultimate Santo and Cub hater Joe Morgan.
"Commit to the Indian!"
by Bpatterson83 on Jun 7, 2008 9:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The word "retard" is not acceptable on this site.
I understand your sentiment, but please use different language. Thanks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 4:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs are due to win tomorrow
They’ve never had more than a two game losing streak this season.
"You know they're not going to lose 162 games." Harry Caray
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 7, 2008 9:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
To me that means their due to lose...
Streaks eventually get broken….tomorrow is the rubber game for the road trip—but I Brad Penny can be tough and we’re just not hitting right now.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 7, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until Penny's last start...
... when he gave up two runs in six innings, he hadn’t had a good outing since April.
And that last start was against the Rockies, who suck. And the Dodgers lost anyway.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 4:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's not Jinx it
ok????
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Desire to Expectation to Presumption...
is not a double play combination but can get to be a really unenjoyable way to root. Like in buying stocks, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I just like to watch.
"This field, this game...it reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again." ~ Terence Mann
by chr15 on Jun 8, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would really like to see...
Cedeno get some extended time, rather than a spot start. Maybe 4-5 in a row at SS/2B.
Theriot’s defense has been dreadfully subpar, and while I certainly acknowledge his good stats this year, I’m thinking that he might regress offensively as the year progresses.
Ultimately, Cedeno has the tools to be an above average defensive SS.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jun 7, 2008 9:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Been there, done that
Ronny Cedeno has had multiple big league trials and everytime it is the same result….non-impressive play in the field punctuated by dismal hitting and a low baseball IQ.
Get Rich Harden !! 7 starts, 3-0, 41 IP, 49 Ks, 2.61 ERA
by MDBNIU on Jun 7, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Survey says:

Ronny Cedeno has had one season of over 500 AB’s. In his other 3 ML seasons, he’s never had more than 100. Once again, you are completely incorrect.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you sir...
And am I incorrect to say that Ronny is 23 years old? I’m not positive, but I think I heard that a few weeks ago. Obviously still developing.
As usual, BlueMike talks out his ass with nothing to back it up with.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jun 7, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's 25, but is still a developing talent, nevertheless.
I’m not going to say Ronny hasn’t mental gaffes, but to write him off at 25 is, well, to be blunt, incredibly stupid.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody wrote off Ronny Cedeno
But to think he is superior to what Ryan Theriot brings to the table? No. Or that he could be everyday shortstop on a playoff contending ballclub? No.
Ronny Cedeno drove in a bunch of RBIs during a brief spurt and some want to fall in love with him while ignoring his shortcomings and past less than inspiring big league trials.
Get Rich Harden !! 7 starts, 3-0, 41 IP, 49 Ks, 2.61 ERA
by MDBNIU on Jun 7, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ronny's probably a better defensive player on bad day
than Ryan Theriot is in his dreams. Which means Ronny can catch the baseball, because that’s where Theriot has set the bar for SS defense. Right now, it’s likely a push at the plate, with Ronny having a decided advantage when it comes to power.
And stop saying “trials” after it’s already been pointed out to you THAT THAT STATEMENT IS PLAINLY FALSE.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 7, 2008 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.
Your non-sabre-analysis is, as always, off the mark. Ronny Cedeno deserves a chance.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Announcers
Everyone knows McCarver sucks. Everyone also knows he won’t go anywhere until he is wheeled away from the announcing booth by paramedics or an undertaker, so deal. He’s even worse with Joe Buck, because they are both Cardinal homers.
Dick Stockton is an abomination.
Who else can I skewer? Oh, saw Vin Scully do his schtick on MLB.tv, and I can sum it for you with “I’m old. Walter Alston. 1962. Duke Snider. Boy, that Lou Piniella shure has himself a temper tantrum some times. Reminds me of something tangentially related to Walter Alston.”
On Sunday night, Morgan and Miller will talk about Joba “The Great One” “Wise beyond his years”* Chamberlain or the Mets or Coco Puff Crisp for 3 hours, breaking in every now and again to mention the Cubs or Walter Alston. Yee-ha.
*-Seriously, I heard the kid referred to both of these phrases this last week. Are. You. Kidding. Me?
by jmomls on Jun 7, 2008 10:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's fly Steve McMichael in to sit behind Angel Hernandez.....
....tomorrow night. I assume some of you remember the time Angel ejected McMichael from the tv booth at Wrigley? Have never seen that before or since.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 7, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was...
the greatest game Ive ever been to. Gutierrez stealing home for the win!
"You gotta be some kind of strong to hit that ball"-Joe Carter
by Lemonhead99 on Jun 8, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're Waaaay Off Base On Scully
Living in L.A. as I do, I get to hear him quite often. Even at 80, he can call a game better than ANYBODY. Bar none. I like Len and Bob just fine, but I’ve watched the Dodger telecast when available this series to get the best of both worlds, Scully and the Cubs. He’s class act in every sense of the word.
Santo Forever!
by BeerCub on Jun 7, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scully
Is a nice throwback change of pace for a few innings, but then it gets old, never having any silence, never stopping with the player human interest stories taken (presumably) out of the opposing team’s media guide.
He told the same exact story about Mark DeRosa’s father and grandmother two nights in a row.
"Let's not get too giggly." ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jun 8, 2008 5:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS
And is it just me, or do the Yankees have the worst assemblage of “talent” working in their media? Everyone except for Leiter and Sterling is execrable. I guess the Steinbrenners spent all the money on the players and steroids and couldn’t afford anyone with half a brain.
by jmomls on Jun 7, 2008 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scratch that
I had mistaken Sterling for Steiner, who does the Dodgers on radio.
Also, while we’re skewering sacred cows—Harry Kalas sucks, too.
by jmomls on Jun 7, 2008 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kalas doesn't suck.
He does lean on cliches, though. If that’s his only failing, so what?
Sorry to disagree with you on Sterling….I cannot understand why he’s in the #1 market. That end-of-game call…...belongs in Fresno.
Charlie Steiner…at best - mediocre. Somewhat harmless. Paired with Steve Lyons - whatta mess.
Go tune in Fox Sports Arizona to hear Mark Grace forget he’s on mic. He just might let the F-Bomb fly. His buddy Daron Sutton has a strange habit of turning a routine ground ball into extreme drama. More dismal work. Need I go on? Should we peek into the Reds booth?
Heavens, no. We’ve suffered enough.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 8, 2008 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good summary.
Those who want Mark Grace back in Chicago in some sort of broadcast role in the future: I recommend to you that you find some way to watch a D’backs game. He’s horrendous.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 4:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they figured
no one could ever be better than my beloved Phil “Scooter” Rizzuto, so why bother to try?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it not a catch-22.
We hate the love for AL East, for all the focus they get but when the Cubs are focused on its the curse. So even when the Cubs are focused on it’s not the lovefest that the AL east gets.
So my thought is this, has anyone considered starting up a podcast?
by Madison Cub Fan on Jun 8, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scully may be old
but in his worse day he was better than Harry on his best day. I know this is going to be fighting words for some but it is a fact. If you listen to both of them in their prime their was no contest as to who was the best. The Dodgers were extremely lucky to have had 2 of the best broadcasters in baseball call their games, Scully and Red Barber.
Sorry if I offended anyone with this but I think it is true. Harry was a different kind of broadcaster than Scully. Frankly he fit the indictment of a broadcaster who thought he was the show. That is my opinion so feel free to differ.
by bubbamike the one and only on Jun 8, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Gary would say: linky
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JIhv8p4O5WM&feature=related
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jun 7, 2008 10:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't skewer Scully.
He’s allowed a senior moment or two. Look at the current network talent. It’s miserable.
(I shall leave Jeannie Zelasko out of this. I’ve worked with her years ago, she’s a very nice lady, and has worked very hard. She’s doing exactly what she aspired to—saying about 15 years ago, she wanted somehow to do baseball on TV. Battling the ‘guys’ isn’t easy. Since she’s just vanquished cancer, she’s off limits.)
Scully alone is better than 90% of those calling baseball these days. Sorry, you are just plain, flat, wrong. You have obviously not heard the crap that eminates from San Diego, and out of the south side of Chicago.
Given that, and just returning from “the Ravine” - sorry to say - the battle of the networks prior to the game was the highlight. “The Simpsons” ran around the field (FOX) the cast of “My Guys” (TBS) was introduced, and Masi Oka from “Heroes” (NBC) threw out one of the first pitches.
I was waiting for Calista Flockhart to sing the national anthem, but that didn’t happen.
Oh—the fellow who played “Tony” on “24” was given a nod on the video board (long-time Cubs fan, he managed to hoist his Cubs coffee mug into the frame many times during his stint on the show) and, since he was in Cubs gear, he was roundly booed.
Perhaps this gave Fox the slight
Wish I had something to say about the game. Couldn’t have been any worse than “Big Brown’s” performance.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 7, 2008 11:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Way to go, Tony Almeida!

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 7, 2008 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Brown was
coming off an injury.
by bubbamike the one and only on Jun 8, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"perhaps this gave Fox the slight ADVANTAGE"
...is how the sentence should read.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 7, 2008 11:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Incidentally, SDSJM...
... as I texted you, you are hereby banned from watching any more Cub games in California, since they can’t seem to win in that state with you present.
(You’re exempted if you watch them in any other state, though.)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 4:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carrie Muskat would like you to know
that Ryan Theriot is having a BREAKOUT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 7, 2008 11:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
Theriot, through June 7th, 2008: .329/.410/.395, .805 OPS
Neifi, through June 7th, 2005: .317/.342/.471, .813 OPS
Can we wait a little whle until we corronate this as his breakout season?
by cwyers on Jun 7, 2008 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying to crown his ace?
He is who we thought he was?
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jun 8, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Theriot is not who we thought he was, I don't think.
Not quite, anyway.
To be quite honest, Theriot’s defense has declined quicker than I would have ever anticipated, and what he’s doing at the plate so far this year is perplexing to say the least. Theriot has essentially dropped his fly ball rate by 10%, trading in fly balls for more grounders and line drives. That’s how you get the lopsided nature of his performance – his batting average has shot up significantly, while his power numbers have dropped. And his power numbers even last season were appallingly bad.
There are two questions, really – one about the value of the sort of performance Theriot has put in so far, and one about its sustainability. But his transformation into some sort of Ichiro Junior (without all the doubles and triples, of course) is a confounding factor, and I’m not sure how well he can sustain it. Meanwhile, he seems to be putting the lie to his reputation as a fundamentally sound baseball player, committing all sorts of odd fielding and baserunning gaffes. And his defense at shortstop seems to be wildly overexposed so far this season.
He’s a very perplexing player. And he’s very troubling. And there are far too many question marks to just blindly call him a “breakout.”
by cwyers on Jun 8, 2008 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox Announcers Love Theriot
The yakking heads on Fox seemed to have a love-fest for Theriot, commenting several times on how he was the best hitting shortstop in the NL. They also brought up how he was “stuck” behind Perez and Izturis last season and then battled hard, impressing Lou so much that he just had to put Theriot out there every day. No word on his defensive shortcomings, though, or how Cedeno is having a good year so far but is stuck on the bench.
I’d rather give up the offense and have Cedeno’s defense in place at SS. Let DeRo and Theriot have some battles over 2B, and Fontenot can take Cedeno’s spot at the end of the bench. Once ARam’s and DLee’s bats warm up again (and they will) then the offensive output at SS will not be missed. Plus, Cedeno seems to hit for more power than Theriot anyhow (.392 vs .346 SLG).
Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!
by SpudV on Jun 8, 2008 6:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets not forget
that cedeno’s numbers don’t look very good since the end of april…..
by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and how many games
has he played SS at in May and the first week of June?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont know how many were SS games
but he’s had the same amount of at bats between the two time periods.
by cubsmania on Jun 8, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm....nope.
Last 28 Days:
Ryan Theriot 133 PA
Ronny Cedeno 38 PA
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
was she rferring to his
complexion?
Carrie’s analysis is often skin deep, at best.
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on Jun 8, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welles Park Baseball
Reading through that site, I was dismayed to note (and my late father, who was a lifer for the Chicago Park District, in charge of many city parks—including Hale, Columbus and Dunham, would also be upset) to find “Welles Park dropped baseball?”
What’s up with this? The parents had to run/fund a league?
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 8, 2008 12:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, apparently.
That’s how it works. My City Tax Dollars At Work For Me—NOT!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 4:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
City needs to spend money
to build soccer fields for the Latin School. Can’t afford baseball for the Plebs
by bubbamike the one and only on Jun 8, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dome's comment on the play for Dodger's go-ahead run
Here’s his comment on the play....
I knew the (2nd base) runner will score if I did not dive, so I took my chance on it. I should catch any balls when I could touch them… I must have caught it. Our pitchers are going good job so we fielders should help them.
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on Jun 8, 2008 12:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought Dome made a great effort.
Unfortunately, he didn’t get the ball.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 4:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't hear that type of comment
from the ‘Made in the US’ player, too often.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 8, 2008 12:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Announcers, redux
Scully obviously will have that job until he dies, just like Harry Caray had his. Scully apparently has been making a lot of mistakes lately, just like Harry did, but Harry made those mistakes for 20 years before the end and it was part of what made him so endearing. Scully was such a cut above for so long that when you hear him after a break of a few years you really, really notice it. Imagine listening to Caray in 1996 after not hearing him since 1985, seriously.
Harry Kalas is crap. That voice of God schtick only works if you’re, um, God.
Let’s face it, every baseball announcer that isn’t yours sucks. Growing up where I did, I was raised on Bob Uecker, Pat Hughes, Harry Caray, Steve F’in Stone, Brickhouse, The Good Kid, and Vince Lloyd. Some tastes acquired later were Josh Lewin, Matt Vasgersian, I’ve got nothing against the Thom Brennaman, either.
by jmomls on Jun 8, 2008 2:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Vin Scully
There’s a fanshot posted here that gives the link to a 1957 Cubs-Dodgers game on the radio. Scully was a delight to listen to.
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2008/6/5/546182/old-cubbie-radio-games
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jun 8, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Takes me back to hear Chicago
called a “Western Club.” How baseball has changed. Back then there was no team team west of St. Louis.
by bubbamike the one and only on Jun 8, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FOX, ESPN, Sports Illustrated etc.
Couldn’t agree more with Al about FOX et al focusing on the whole 1908 angle. Having said that, having watched the Red Sox finally win a WS I can tell you it’s just going to get worse. Every Sox fan I know will tell you the phrase “Curse of the Bambino” should be permanently tattooed on McCarver’s forehead. We’re going to have to deal with the same thing, or worse.
At their heart most sportscasters get rather myopic when it comes to stories like this and they’ll always find the path of least resistance.
At least they aren’t talking about how much we suck.
by AlabamaCubFan on Jun 8, 2008 4:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Manager's Impact
A few weeks ago I speculated on the impact a baseball manager can have on his team, and it did not seem to be much. Yesterday was a different matter, though. Lou left in Z at least one if not two batters too many. Yeah, Z had some bad luck with his defensive support, but it was fairly obvious his sinker was not sinking so much and he was losing his ability to effectively spot his fastball.
McCarver repeated several times about his “insider” information, when Lou told him that he would probably pull Z early due to his high pitch count two starts ago. Well, when the time came to pull him Lou settled for talk and let him keep throwing.
At the end of the sixth I thought Z had the start for the All-Star game just about sewn up. Not only was he throwing great but he was swinging a hot bat as well. With Lou leaving him not only did he give up some cheap runs, but fans around the country were treated to Z’s love for Gatorade containers. The Gatorade containers survived, but I’m not so sure about starting the All-Star game. He’ll still probably make the squad, but it would have been nice to see him start.
Bringing in a reliever and coming out of the seventh only down 4-3 would have made it a different game and saved some wear-and-tear on Z’s emotions. Lou missed it on that call.
Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!
by SpudV on Jun 8, 2008 7:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I suspect Brandon Webb is in line to start the ASG.
Maybe Z can change that over the next four weeks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm ok with Z not starting
I’d rather have him pitch in a game that matters.
Oh, wait, “this time it matters . . . .”
Nevertheless . . . .
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was for pulling Z toward the end of the inning before
You cohen uld see he was getting frustrated and a change then might have broken LA’s momentum
by cubbierc on Jun 8, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still a month to go
Yeah, maybe it’s a little early to predict ASG starters. Unfortunately, the Cubs don’t get the game of the week often, and Z’s antics could be a factor when it’s time to decide on a starter. An “oh sh**” on national TV can wipe out a lot of “atta boys”. Who knows, maybe Lou will figure out a mystery ailment just before the ASG and hold back Z from pitching that week (and give him some extra rest).
Pie, Fontenot, Theriot and Soto up the middle ... yippie oh, oh, oh!
by SpudV on Jun 8, 2008 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
fox
here in tampa we either get the sox or yankees.cubs always lose in that deal.after seeing the score though i did,nt really mind.almost blew the 1st game and gave up leads in the next 2. not a proven way to get to the world series.braves,sox,and rays???the schedule gets tougher so these guys need to step it up.there will be a dh in tampa.anybody have any ideas on that?would have been ward or hoffpauir but neither one is around.
by NOMAR on Jun 8, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
broadcasters
No bad ones on the national level in the 1970s?
Are you forgetting Howard Cosell? Worst baseball announcer I’ve ever heard.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Jun 8, 2008 8:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wittenmeyer
What a dope. He claims that it’s doubtful Pierre would have been out had Theriot caught the “wide throw”.
Gee, Gordo, did you happen to see the umpire call Pierre out before he noticed Theriot had dropped the ball?
Sheesh.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2008 9:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Theriot's press corps protectors really showed themselves yesterday.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I might throw out my jeers...
To Lou Piniella—For leaving Zambrano in to face Kemp. Your pitcher looked gassed, the defense was imploding behind him, and Kemp was due. Oh, and that 130 pitch outing looked to be catching up to him. That home run was on you, pure and simple.
To Carlos Zambrano—You lost man. Get over it. That petulant child meltdown you pulled in the dugout made you look like a clueless clown. Like it or not, you’re a leader. Act like it.
To Kosuke Fukudome. —You don’t get a pass. That dropped ball on that Martin fly was so catchable, high school players drafted last week would have made it.
To Ryan Theriot—How exactly do you miss the ball entirely on a clean pickoff throw to 2nd? .400 OBP or not, many don’t consider you a major-league caliber shortstop for exactly that reason. And that infield hit in the 6th that most other infielders would have had enough arm strength to get the runner out? Example number two. May I suggest that you watch the Chin-lung Hu footage to see what a real shortstop looks like? I yearn for the day that you’re either traded for an upgrade, or moved to your natural spot at 2nd.
To Aramis Ramirez—PICK UP THE BALL!! Waiting to see if it rolls foul is based on the idea that the ball is still rolling. It wasn’t. Pick it up, and throw out the runner. And that error? C’mon.
Oh, and most definitely to the umps - You ever-expanding strike zone had Cubs hitters flailing at balls that they normally wouldn’t dream of touching to protect the plate. Balls at your ankles are not strikes. Kent was out on his IF hit in the 5th. And Fukudome was most definitely safe on the “double-play”. After 12 hours I honestly can’t figure out who embarassed themselves more; you or the Cubs. Well, yeah. The Cubs. But only because the more casual fan watching Fox doesn’t appreciate the subtle changes that an empire can - but shouldn’t—make in a game.
Enough said. Let’s get that winning road trip.
by Damen Jackson on Jun 8, 2008 9:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with most of what you said
But Ramirez had no play at first on that bunt. He was playing deep.
by Shanghai Badger on Jun 8, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GOOD NEWS and
bad news at AAA:
The Good –
Josh Kroger hit 3 HR’s in a game yesterday for the I-Cubs. Hitting above .300, and leads the team in HR’s.
The Bad -
Felix Pie is not “tearing up” AAA pitching. Hitting .176 now.
Matt Murton leads the team with a .338 BA, and an OBP of .445
I hope Hendry can make a trade for another starting pitcher (preferably allowing MArquis to go somewhere else), and allow Murt to play somewhere else…
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sigh.
Felix Pie had two hits yesterday and an RBI, and is actually hitting a respectable pace after his horrid first two weeks. Stop using selective endpoints to affirm your prejudices. And Pie’s hitting .191, not .176.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am looking at
the stats as they appear on the I-Cubs web site. This morning.
Sorry, .191 is indeed a remarkable achievement.
By mentioning the one game above, out of his body of work since being sent down, YOU are the one who is using “selective endpoints” to affirm your own delusions on a player.
It is obvious that he still needs work, and not yet at the major league level. That’s all I was saying.
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those stats are a day behind.
Baseball-Reference has the correct stats. And if you’d done a bit more reading on the I-Cubs site, you’d also have noticed that Pie just snapped a 7-game hitting streak the night before last. You’re right that .191 is nothing to write home to mom about, and I’ll be the first to admit that Pie needs more, but if you’re going to be critical of a player, as you routinely are of Pie, at least try and get your facts straight. B-R generally gets the numbers up a bit quicker, for future reference.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the arrow is
pointing up, Varsho, last 10 games. Indeed you are right on Pie – he is hitting .268 in that time.
OBP is not too great though…
http://iowa.cubs.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Felix%20Pie&pos=&sid=t451&t=p_pbp&pid=429712
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, while I am critical...
I also am awed by him defensively, and in no way have given up on the young man. It is not his fault that CF has been a glaring need on the team for some time, and that he has been perhaps been focused on and anointed the job perhaps too quickly.
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if he was rushed,
but I think way too much was expected of him at the ML level. Or, better yet, he was expected to be something he wasn’t: a slap-hitting speedster. In reality, Pie is more of a Curtis Granderson type, not the Lance Johnson type.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's going to take him another week of doing that to dig his BA and OBP
out of the monstrous hole he dug in his first two weeks. But, for guys like Pie, who’ve already proven they can massacre AAA pitching, Iowa is the palce to work out the kinks, and I think we’re seeing Pie start to get more comfortable with his new swing. That said, I wouldn’t expect to see him with the club for quite some time, and he won’t get another shot at the starting gig until next season.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However, as the roster
expands, he will be up in September and will help to win a couple games with his D.
Jim Edmonds, right now, is giving value for the money. As Bruce Levine mentioned yesterday, “He can still mash ‘B’-Level pitching”, with Gerald Perry’s help – but A-level stuff, he is no longer a match for.
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's probably right.
If Edmonds can get us through the summer, I’m fine with it.
I agree with Miles and I think as long as Lou keeps protecting Edmonds with matchup management, they’ll be okay. Edmonds had no chance against Saito the other night.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you get a second
VArsho – can you please throw the Miles link this way?
I missed it this week…
Thx
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant Levine.
Too many Bruces! I heard Levine saying that on ESPN and on Chicago Tonight.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so glad you caught that.
I was worried my Monty Python geekiness had finally done me in.
“Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume
George Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.
There’s nothing Nietzsche couldn’t teach ya’
‘Bout the raising of the wrist.
SOCRATES, HIMSELF, WAS PERMANENTLY PISSED…
John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away;
Half a crate of whiskey every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart: “I drink, therefore I am”
But, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he’s pissed!”
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, it isn't.
If he’s made some significant change to his swing, it’s obvious that he would have struggled implementing that. If we knew when he’d done that, we’d have a better idea of where to “cut-off” his stats. However, if you follow game by game, it’s become quite clear that he is hitting much better now than right after he was sent down, and went 0-19 or something like that.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
Pie is making adjustments to his swing. As such, it’s completely logical to expect a slow start, as he’s not going to be comfortable at the plate. As such, his 3-40 start is completely to be expected.
Since that horrible start, Pie has gone 12-45 with 4 2B, 1 3B, and 2 HR. That’s not spectacular, but it’s a step in the right direction, for sure.
by SouthernCub on Jun 8, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what Pie's trade value is now
if come the deadline we are pursuing another starter , a bullpen arm, or a shortstop I wonder what Felix would be worth given his continued struggles. I also wonder if Jim will be a little more wiling to give him up if the right offer comes around
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
by DC Cubbie on Jun 8, 2008 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When the Cubs sent Pie down,
they used up his final option year. That puts a significant dent in his trade value, especially considering how young he is. I’d still be reticent to trade Pie, however, when you have a player like Murton who’s blocked on this club, but might provide a nice option on another club.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not.
We’re going to need this kid.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs players make great reclamation projects for other teams...
Wellemeyer
Nolasco
Floyd (he was always a good hitter though)
Kendall
Grudzielanek (he always hits .315 though)
Brenden Harris
There’s a lot more but those are the ones that come to mind…
by lswaidz on Jun 8, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't really count Floyd, Kendall, and Grudz...
They’re not Cubs farm hands, and they played years and years before joining the Cubs.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jun 8, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And none of the above...
... is a great player. Wellemeyer’s hurt. Nolasco is a 4th starter. Brendan Harris… well, he’s Brendan Harris.
Thanks for playing, lovely parting gifts!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides Wellemeyer and maybe Nolasco
all the rest of those guys would be riding the bench. Not much gold in that bunch. Maybe fools gold but no on who would start on this team. If you want to whine about the ones that got away you’ll have to do better.
by bubbamike the one and only on Jun 8, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really try to not pimp my work elsewhere...
...but last night I wrote up a long, drawn-out analysis of the Cubs’ fielding.
Short version: Outfield and corner infield is good. Middle infield is bad.
by cwyers on Jun 8, 2008 10:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks -
will check it out.
Do you put much credence in RF stats?
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Range Factor?
Not really. I mean, if you have nothing else available… well, then by definition it’s the best thing you’ve got. But there are a lot of problems with RF, and so you need to take anything based on RF (that includes BP’s WARP and Win Shares, BTW) with a grain of salt.
by cwyers on Jun 8, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can defensive stats
be weighted for park effects? Or are they already?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering this
also.
Are infields in MLB parks labeled with ratings as well? I.e., the Cubs new infield apparently is “faster” than it used to be…
Does this factor in any stats whatsoever?
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know UZR is.
I’ve heard people debating whether or not RZR is park-adjusted for the Green Monster in Fenway. If you look at infielders, there’s very little to be gained from park adjustments on ground balls. It’s a little more meaningful for outfielders, especially for strange cases like Fenway.
There are some things, though, like foul ground and home run rates, that don’t impact defensive metrics – and those are very important pieces of park factors. So, except for LF in Fenway, I don’t worry about park adjustments too often.
by cwyers on Jun 8, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very interesting
Cwyers…
It would make sense, then, that Dome’s “off-the-wall” carom chances would improve as his frequency at all of the parks in MLB goes up…
by The E-Man on Jun 8, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeesh.
I hadn’t realized Derosa had been that bad.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You too?
I’m not going to say that was the surprising thing – Mike Fontenot NOT being that bad was probably the most surprising for me. I’m now no longer going to make fun of using the Hamster as a defensive replacement.
by cwyers on Jun 8, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are Cedeno's numbers
affected by sample size? I figured his defensive numbers would have been better. Nonetheless, he still seems to be a significant improvement over Theriot.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 8, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean Ronny's SS #s
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 8, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone's numbers are affected by sample size.
Even a full season’s worth of numbers are a small sample size. It’s all a matter of degrees. Simply based upon his numbers at second base, I’d expect him to do a better job than what he’s done so far at short.
by cwyers on Jun 8, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
p.s. great right up.
you should email it to Lou and his staff
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jun 8, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Fontenot NOT being that bad is a shocker. I’d figure he was the worst of the group.
A defensive replacement for the middle infield has been on my wish list since April. Unless, of course, you make a play for Renteria at the deadline, which gives you a true quality everyday SS.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jun 8, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there's bit of bad blood with Edgar
that might need to be resolved first….
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fontenot was a surprise, no doubt,
but I just never expected Derosa to be that bad.
And I will continue to poke fun at Fontenot until he gets a real haircut.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody's trying to take away your right to call him a hamster.
And I’m not suggesting that we make him our everyday second baseman – Mark DeRosa is probably outhitting most of his fielding miscues, relative to Our Mullet Of Wonder. But I’m certainly not going to complain (as much) about seeing him in the late innings.
Now if only Lou would figure it out with Theriot as well…
by cwyers on Jun 8, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When wearing a baseball cap
All long-locked hairstyles appear like a mullet, because the front is hidden. Your hamster friend does not actually have a Billy Ray Cyrus thing going…..
he’s going more for the Paul Sullivan look…
"Let's not get too giggly." ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jun 8, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He looks like a hobbit in that picture.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jun 8, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
how many of DeRosa’s problem days happened the day after he fielded another position…
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were in the stands for that one
on the left field side at field level, and it seemed to me that Soriano should have caught Juan Pierre’s one-out single, but (a) he was poorly positioned (why in the world was he playing Slappy McPopup so deep?), and (b) he looks like he’s still suffering lingering side effects from his earlier calf injury; he just wasn’t running very fast out there.
Also, Pierre was a dead duck on that steal attempt if DeRosa handles the ball. He didn’t, and the Cubs just gave away the game.
Agreed about the nature of the home runs. Despite Dodger Stadium’s former tendencies as a pitcher’s park, it actually slightly favors home runs while suppressing doubles. Three years ago, Tom Meagher wrote an extended analysis of the park and concluded that was because it was converting some doubles into home runs, which is something we saw yesterday. (Dodger Stadium has become slightly hitter-friendly in recent years, this mainly due to the construction of seats in the former foul ground, and the introduction of Petco Park into the division, which has made everyone’s numbers look that much worse.)
Even with yesterday’s abysmal outing (and why the last three runs scored against Zambrano weren’t charged as unearned I really don’t understand), Big Z still has a very impressive 2-1, 2.37 ERA lifetime record pitching at Dodger Stadium.
Witty .sig goes here.
by scareduck on Jun 8, 2008 12:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
As I wrote, the Cubs gave the Dodgers five outs in the seventh inning, and you simply cannot win that way. The runs were earned because Fukudome’s drop was ruled a hit. Had that been called an out, those last three runs would have all been unearned.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jun 8, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodger Stadium plays very different
at night versus day. Most games are at night (after the first 2-3 innings) when the sun goes down the dampness picks up and balls do not carry, thus the reputation for “ball to not carry” and a pitcher’s ball park.
In day games, Dodger Stadium has always had a reputation where the ball could carry out easily. With much less area in foul territory (THAT is what really gave it the reputation of a pitcher’s ball park), it is harder to get foul outs, as you stated. So yes, the ball did carry better yesterday, versus in the last 6 innings in the first two night games.
But it is night games versus day games that gives Dodger Stadium the pitcher friendly reputation now. It lost any other advantage with the greed for more seating (as you so well pointed out).
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on Jun 8, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN currently having another field day with Bartman
Florida state wichita state game just had a fan reach over the fence on a foul ball and rob a potential out, next batter homers and both announcers have been talking about Bartman for the last 5 minutes. Just reason number 1 million why ESPN sucks
"This is why Major League Baseball does not need instant replay, because then every single play will then be reviewed." -- Joe Morgan, 5/18/08, referring to an umpire ruling a Carlos Delgado homerun foul when replays showed it hit the foul pole.
by CubsBall2202 on Jun 8, 2008 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
boy that's creative....anyone else gag
...at the CWS promo’s ESPN is running? Guess which former College player they are featuring?
None other than Joba when he was a Cornhusker…
AAAHHHH!!!
Felix Pie must play everyday!
by JB 23 on Jun 8, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait
not BlueMike?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jun 8, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LISTEN TO WGN PERIOD.
This is our Year!
by This is our year on Jun 8, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awful national announcing
I didn’t catch a whole lot of the Fox broadcast yesterday (although being in South Carolina, I was glad we got the game instead of the Braves/Mets/Yankees/Red Sox we usually get fed).
I do know that every ESPN broadcast makes me sick. I have Extra Innings, and would rather watch the opposing team’s feed than suffer through seeing Bartman, black cat, 1969, 1908 rehashed for the 1,001st time. Seriously. It’s like every time ESPN comes to Wrigley, they assume their audience has an IQ of 40 or the memory of a cocker spaniel.
Almost as bad as Fox blasting “The Night Chicago Died” in reference to 2003’s Game 6 meltdown, but I digress.
It’d be nice if the national networks assumed their audiences have a brain, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
by South Carolina Cub on Jun 8, 2008 8:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Extra Innings
Oh, and would it be too much to ask for Fox to release its regional Saturday games to Extra Innings subscribers?
I have DirecTV, and it’s horrible that I pay $180 for EI to get every game but the Fox Saturday games.
CBS feeds all of its regional college hoops games through DirecTV, so I’m assuming it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to do this.
But coming from the network that shoves Joe Buck down our throats 9 months per year, it probably would be a miracle if it happened.
by South Carolina Cub on Jun 8, 2008 8:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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