That's More Like It: Cubs 9, Giants 2
by Al on Jul 1, 2008 8:27 AM CDT
in Recaps
460 comments
It's West Coast week -- for four days, at least -- and that means the rest of you are going to have to fill in the blanks, because I had to go to sleep (sure, I'll take one for the team, but not when I have to get up at 3 am for work) after the third inning last night.
Had a good feeling, though, even when I turned the TV off -- it looked like Ted Lilly had good stuff and good location, and the Cubs had already started waiting Barry Zito out and had capitalized on a Giants error to score the first run of the game. And they kept on scoring, thanks mostly to two Mark DeRosa home runs, the second a grand slam that put the 9-2 win over the Giants out of reach.
This was an important win for a number of reasons. A four-game losing streak, the first of the year, isn't that bad, but if you let it get to five it might snowball into something truly long. Snapping it on the road and getting back to winning when two of your best hitters aren't in the lineup is the first notable thing -- this is how the Cubs have succeeded all year, with different heroes every day.
Last night it was DeRo, with a 6-RBI night; Matt Murton, in a rare start, with a two-run double, and Lilly, who threw his best game of the year, even while running out of gas one inning short of a CG shutout. Kerry Wood, pitching for the first time in five days, finished up, but not before allowing a couple of consolation runs for the Giants.
Lilly, who has jokingly suggested that he bat somewhere other than 9th (the disease seems to be spreading -- the Pirates are now the third team in the NL Central to bat their pitcher 8th this year, doing it last night while losing to the Reds), struck out all five times he batted. That's the first time a pitcher has done that since San Diego's Clay Hensley did it at Wrigley Field against the Cubs on May 14, 2006 (Hensley also won that game, by a 9-0 shutout.)
As I suggested in last night's preview, the Cubs helped get to Barry Zito by waiting him out, and his control was poor -- he walked five, and the Cubs drew nine free passes in all, their most in a single game this season. Five Cubs who walked also scored; three of those alone on DeRosa's grand slam after Billy Sadler had walked the bases loaded. Fun like this could be had throughout this series, because the Giants pitching staff leads the National League in walks issued with 338 and the Cubs are the most patient team in the major leagues, having drawn 340 walks, more than anyone else.
Read that again. The most patient team in the major leagues. When did you ever think you'd read those words about a Cubs team? This comes only two years after the hackmaster, Dusty Baker, had his team dead last in baseball with only 395 walks for the entire season (comparison point: that year, the league leader, the Phillies, had 626 walks and the Cubs had 64 fewer walks than the next-lowest team, the Pirates). This year's team will pass that 395 total in 14 more games, presuming they keep up their present average of 4.1 walks per game.
That's just one of the reasons this team, and this year, feels different. The Cubs are 19-5 against the NL West, the worst division in baseball (only the Diamondbacks' 6-3 win over the Brewers last night prevented the entire division from going under .500), and that's what good teams do against bad ones, beat up on them. There are only nine games remaining against the West (the three in this series, three against the Giants next week at home, and three at Arizona later this month). So keep up the good work! Onward to tonight.
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FIrst?
Help me Obi-ONEDEC. You're our only hope.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 1, 2008 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hmm...
Many apologies, but this is like a really important day in my life, you know, being first and all.
GO CUBS!
Help me Obi-ONEDEC. You're our only hope.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 1, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is an appropriate shirt
For all that. Congrats.
by lamentir on Jul 1, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More like it indeed
I really think the road trip may serve as a sort of reset button for these guys. This is a good start to the trip, and a reminder that our fortunes as a team and fanbase may ebb and flow, but in the big picture, that stat (thanks for bringing it up, Al) about their patience absolutely boosts my confidence in these guys.
"Whoo, boy! Next time around, bring me back my stomach!" -Jack Brickhouse
by Goodie1969 on Jul 1, 2008 8:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As I said yesterday...
... I think these guys also feel they’re now away from the circus atmosphere around the Cubs/Sox games and can concentrate on, for lack of a better word, “real” baseball now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 1, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still want to get another shot at the Sox...
Let’s settle this North v. South thing in October.
Help me Obi-ONEDEC. You're our only hope.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 1, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+10
In honor of Santo.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jul 1, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean the former White Sox player?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freaky
Ron played 2B for the Sox? I forgot that, I guess.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jul 1, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2B for Ron was Chuck Tanner's idea
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Just kind of odd. I can see his arm declining, but guys at the end of their career don’t usually increase their range. Especially if they have diabetes? (Maybe an uninformed statement, but the people I’ve known with it have always had foot and leg issues – and Ron eventually did too obviously)
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jul 1, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
even remember the sox having red caps. Ronnie must have hated that year. You can see the anguish in his eyes. “I should’ve just retired, damnit!”
I think Santo would enjoy topping the Sox in the Series more than any of us would.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jul 1, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not as much as he would enjoy
beating the Mets in the NLCS.
He never had any AL rivals when he played. Was he griping about the Sox this weekend?
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jul 1, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
He didn’t care much for the umps, though. Ron knows what’s right. He’d rather beat the Mets and the Cardinals any day.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right,
the Mets would be paramount.
I don’t think he was saying much this past weekend, but I recall him sounding disappointed about having ended his career in a Sox uni rather than having stayed with the Cubs. I have no specific commentary to reference though.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jul 1, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not the only one.
Any of us who were around back in 1969 will savor that moment much like a fine wine.
by MN exile on Jul 1, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He told the story the other day about how he ended up doing a fair amount of DH'ing and how much he hated that
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but wasn't that in the context of Pat
asking him what the experience of playing both leagues was like?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Santo card
I love the 1975 Topps set – I have a very nice 1975 Topps complete set in my collection. Definitely the best looking Topps set of the 1970s, though some might argue the 1971 set is more handsome.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a road trip is a great thing
especially after how crazy the city’s been over the series.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last night was excellent.
Good performances, jumped on Zito early enough to keep the heart rate down, and put it away with DeRo’s huge HR. A much needed win.
I wasn’t ledge sitting yet, but was starting to see if I needed to set out a lawn chair to “dibs” my place out on the ledge. I’m keeping said lawn chair in the closet for now.
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 8:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
All Hail...
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 1, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murton really played well last night....
I didn’t see every play, but aside from that KEY two run double to make our lead more comfy, he made a real nice play in left. He got over to the line really, really quickly, fielded and threw a strike to second and almost embarassed the fire out of Rowand. Nice work Red!
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two things
First, full disclosure says that the runs allowed by Lilly probably shouldn’t have occurred. Edmonds seemingly misjudged a hard line drive by Rich Aurilia that just as easily could have been an out. If that is caught, it’s a shutout. It was much easier seeing him “misplay” that ball in a 9-0 game rather than a 1-0 game though.
Also, truth be told, I’m not sure you can say that the Murton play you mention was anything out of the ordinary. First of all, he plays LF with his heels on the warning track, making it pretty easy to get to balls like the one mentioned. In fact, Duane Kuiper and Mike Krukow both mentioned that he might play the deepest LF in all of baseball. The throw was fine but it was a hard hit ball and Aaron Rowand doesn’t run like he used to anymore. I wouldn’t go overboard with the praise for that particular play. It was decent but not that impressive.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.
by krummy12 on Jul 1, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So long as we're playing this game...
...we get to this point by having Theriot make a long throw over to first on a close play; the ball ends up in the dirt and Lee has to dig it out. A stronger throw at least has a chance of getting the runner, and that changes the whole complexion of the inning. Instead Wood was used and Howry ended up being warmed up.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Was just about to make that point.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also had to wait for the second hop
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson
by MikeOxbyg on Jul 1, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That play was most likely going to be a base hit 8 out of 10 times...
regardless of who was playing SS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotta agree with that
It was a high, bouncing, chopper that virtually nobody could have gotten to and made a good play on with a reasonably speedy guy like Randy Winn batting. As it was, I thought Theriot played it well.
by false cognate on Jul 1, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he truely wasn't...
...able to charge the ball to glove it before that final hop, the only thing an ‘elite’ SS might have been able to do is to barehand the grab, cutting out the time of the ball transfer. No easy task, of course.
The hit was a product of the chop off the plate and Wynn’s speed – not anything that Theriot did poorly.
by Shawon O Meter on Jul 1, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the play itself didn't seem awful to me
but you should be able to make a strong throw from the IF grass to the 1b that he doesn’t have to dig out of his foot.
IMHO anyway
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
but considering the speed of the batter and the time he had to throw the ball once he got it….only a few SS at the ML level are going to fire a strike to 1B on that play.
He also wasn’t on the infield grass…if I remember correctly.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was
maybe I’m confused. but if you’re a ML SS you need to get enough on that throw to not kill your 1b. D-Lee helps cover up a lot of stink on our IF defense.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee is the only thing...
keeping Theriot from becoming a crippling defensive player.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Likely true.
He’s saved a ton of errant throws from both Theriot and Ramirez.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I gotta admit...
...I cringe almost every time Theriot throws the ball to first.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 1, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
same here
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But, you do mean lobs the ball to first, right? ;)
Can just see DLee at first mouthing awaiting a ball thrown by TheRiot “it’s gonna make it, it’s gotta make it”
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jul 1, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the best part is the
6’5” guy STRETCHING out for the ball b/c he knows the ball is just gonna die if he doesn’t.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cringe every time he fields a ball and does that little ball-pump into his glove before throwing...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too...
I just don’t see the point to it. And I don’t understand why, when DeRo is in the outfield, Cedeno is at 2B and Theriot SS. He has NO range, much less the arm for SS.
by crazymountain on Jul 1, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know how crazy these mountains are, but ....
looking north in Carpinteria, CA
driving east on the 101 toward Ventura, CA
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jul 1, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And just for good measure....
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jul 1, 2008 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the sea was angry that day, my friend...
...like an old man returning soup at a deli.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No soup for you!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jul 1, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked into the eye of the great fish--
“Mammal”
“Whateva”
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is that, a Titleist?
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jul 1, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone here a marine biologist?
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 1, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
These are in Carpinteria, so I’ll have some of Santa Barbara soon.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jul 1, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like all is good
in northsiderland
We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez
by Emelie on Jul 1, 2008 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, the Crazy Mountains
I lived many years in Montana up the Shields River valley with a gorgeous view of the Crazy Mountains, last mountain range before you get to West Dakota…...CrazyMountain has been a great business name for a lot of years now. And, I actually sold my domain crazymountain.com for $25,000 when I retired. Have many more crazymountain domains though…...
by crazymountain on Jul 1, 2008 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take that under advisement from someone..
who chooses to use a partial “f’ bomb in their tagline. I was watching on MLB.TV and saw when the depth at which Murton plays was pointed out. But after having suffered through some of the butchery in left both with and without Alf, i still thought it was a really nice solid MLB play for a left fielder. Saying someone “doesn’t run like they used” to is really vague. The dude won a gold glove in CF LAST YEAR. I think his speed is better than you give credit for and he was darn near embarassed.
We disagree.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine
That’s fine to agree to disagree…but what does the tagline have to do with anything? I have absolutely no intention of debating whether anyone is capable of watching a baseball game at any level. We will agree to disagree on your implication that a tagline is a sign of anything to the contrary.
If you want to stroke Murton for that play, go ahead. It was simply an average play by an average player. Nothing more, nothing less. You point to Rowand’s defense as a sign that he somehow has better than average speed. I will assume you understand that speed is but one of the things that may be considered an appealing skill to have when playing the OF. Unless of course you believe all of those gold gloves on Edmonds’ mantle were acquired when he was “fast”.
I haven’t even pointed out the fact that the replay of the double clearly showed that Rowand was not at running full speed around first and that he didn’t accelerate until about halfway to second.
But you can view it how you wish. Makes no difference to anyone on here.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.
by krummy12 on Jul 1, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Rowand wasn't running full speed.....
why do you suppose that was? I would submit that it was because he assumed that on a ball hit that hard into the corner that he had an easy double. Even though Murton plays deep, he still got to the ball quickly and rifled in a nice strike to second.
Speed-sure-guys witohout blazing speed with gold-but Rowand is 31 years old and was just signed to a long term contract to play CF in the ML. He can run chief-you believe as you wish to, but the boy gets around pretty well.
Thank you for speaking for everyone here. The tagline goes to credibility and I daresay mentality.
"Red Sox Nation: In your opinion, who’s the best player not in the HOF?
Bill James: Ron Santo" October 2004.
by cubfever7 on Jul 2, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ye-haw!
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2008 9:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I missed a Grand-slam?
Darnit. But it looks like my plan of listening to the game on WGN while playing CoH, and then going to bed around 10:45 worked. So I’ll do it again tonight.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2008 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Haven't thought of CoH in a while
lasted almost a year playing a few hours a week. Fun. Then I grew up and had kids etc. No more time for my scrapper.
by JCD on Jul 1, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My kid
plays with me.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stayed up until the 5th inning
and I felt a little determination from this group. They seemed focused, and you have to be to draw that many walks. Lilly might have set the tone with his pitching too. I think an undermanned team like ours right now may pull together more. I feel good about he rest of the series!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Jul 1, 2008 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Most BB in a game?
“As I suggested in last night’s preview, the Cubs helped get to Barry Zito by waiting him out, and his control was poor—he walked five, and the Cubs drew nine free passes in all, their most in a single game this season”
Wouldn’t the highest total in a game be the 11 recorded in Pitt on Apr 7th?
Impressive totals none the less.
by jajonez77 on Jul 1, 2008 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Clarification.
Most in a NINE-INNING game this year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 1, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
10 BB in a game
They had 10 on both Apr 19th vs. Pit and Jun 25th vs. Bal. Both 9 inning games.
I had to go look at the baseball reference because I thought I remembered them having 10 a few times. It really is a different team this year. :)
by jajonez77 on Jul 1, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
I must still be sleepy. Thanks for the correction.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 1, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can sympathize with being sleepy:
Lilly, who has jokingly suggested that he bat somewhere other than 9th (the disease seems to be spreading—the Pirates are now the third team in the NL Central to bat their pitcher 8th this year, doing it last night while losing to the Redsat Wrigley Field against the Cubs on May 14, 2006 (Hensley also won that game, by a 9-0 shutout.)
I like you Al, but you made my head a splode. : )
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jul 1, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, that was some kinda glitch
Maybe it was ‘cause Al was sleepy, but it woke me up pretty good. WTF?
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jul 1, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so it wasn't just me who got lost
when reading that sentence. good.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very sleepy.
I’ll fix it. I know what I was TRYING to say!!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 1, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I know what happened.
I accidentally forgot to close a HTML tag, which made about two sentences after the word “Reds” in the above blockquote disappear.
It should be better now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 1, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're forgiven
:-)
html while sleepy is not a recipe.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting...
Does anyone else remember that DeRo hit a grand slam the day after Lou’s ejection last year…. how strange. maybe Lou should get tossed more often.
by cubbiefanTN on Jul 1, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it's coincidental, not ironic.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea i didn't get enough sleep
my bad
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
was that you
who made a couple of posts abouth the incorrect uses of the word ironic on this board a few months back?
by cubbiefanTN on Jul 1, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
idk
i dont’ think it was me if u think it was me
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was a reply
to the gary varsho, who caught your “ironic” misuse
by cubbiefanTN on Jul 1, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if so, that would be quite the ironical coincidence...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so.
It’s a pet peeve of mine, but I don’t recall ever having said anything about it here. You can check my comment history, though.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
U guys think we can hit Matt Cain today
he dominated us last year but that was a different story. i want your thoughts
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet you're the guy...
who also complained about that Alanis Morissette song too :)
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 1, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's ironic that nothing in that song is actually ironic.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah... it's like rain on your wedding day...
which is ironic… sorta like good advice that you just don’t take.
Help me Obi-ONEDEC. You're our only hope.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 1, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just glad it's nothing bad for ramirez
it coulda brought ramirez down but thankfully not :)
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
zito....
according to something i read this morning, he felt his stuff was crisp last night… I’m not sure i would agree based on the number of walks.
by cubbiefanTN on Jul 1, 2008 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
zito is just bad.
he lost his command in oakland and that’s the reason he sucks
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bad investment
for the giants… oh well… glad we didn’t sign him
by cubbiefanTN on Jul 1, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zito
is on pace to go 6-23 with a 5.99 ERA. Guess that’s about what $14.5 mln a year buys you these days.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Jul 1, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if that's the case....
then we should be able to sell Marquis easily
by tootle on Jul 1, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zito...
was supposed to have found a lower arm slot and they were talking (Giants broadcast) about how great his game against Cleveland was with the lower angle. Maybe I am really dense, but if that performance last night was “crisp”.........Well, it WAS as good as CoCoCrisp…..
And, once again, MLB and the EI package….there were four channels for the game last night. One pair (HD and Regular) was the Reds post game show and the other pair was Giants. Well, they started the Giants stations when Theriot was batting in the first and, when they switched to the game on the second pair, it was also the Giants broadcast. Brilliant!!!!!! I am so glad WGN has the game tonight.
by crazymountain on Jul 1, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WARNING
Do not use the bolded phrase in this post. From my own experience, your bound to hear a 100 year reference. If you want to make that argument, rephrase it.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...
by LPLancer23 on Jul 1, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The most patient team in the major leagues"
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on Jul 1, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah.
I was completely lost. Thanks for helping out.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha.
yeah, you get comments like “the most patient fan base in the world, maybe” heh.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayn Perry at Foxsports
Commented today about the Al Star voting for both leagues. He’s pretty critical of the NL’s voting so far, specifically he seems to not like having any Cubs on the team. He claims Soto is not the right choice at catcher and all three outfielders (Soriano, Fukudome, Griffey Jr.) should not be there as well. Pretty absurd IMO.
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
how in the holy hell does Geovany Soto not deserve an All-Star spot
I’m tired of everybody picking Brian McCann because Geo has had a better year no doubt about it. Stupid Tim Kurkjian stop players that don’t deserve to start. Geo def. deserves to start without a doubt. Freaking idiots.
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Russell Martin is more of a household name than Soto, its not a biased thing. It’s based on what the kid has done. Hard to argue with that…..
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
Really, you couldn’t go wrong with Martin, McCann, or Soto.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
What do you think about the outfielders? Missing a “natural” center fielder?
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ken Griffey doesn't even deserve what he gets.
Congrats to him getting 600 but he’s just not that good anymore. I could say that Kosuke is a “natural” centerfielder. But Braun def. deserves to be a starter. Somewhat soriano too because he’s missed over 30 games and still produces 15 HRs, 40 RBIs.
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a stupid claim.
Kemp and McClouth are just fine in CF.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got cut off.
And Griffey likely only gets one inning.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Griffey is a starter...
... IIRC he has to play three innings.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 1, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which poses the questions
Would you rather have a very potent offensive all-star team or a squad of gold glovers?
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something grammatical about that I don't like.....
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the grammar sounds fine
it’s just one question, not questions
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jul 1, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
toche
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
Then you put him in RF, move Dome to CF, and things will be okay. Perry probably wants Skip Schumaker out there.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He suggested
Ludwick, among others
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jul 1, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he did.
Pat Burrell should be in the team, though.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he meant
Among the leading vote getters
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't understand dayn perry's thinking
he says Geovany doesn’t deserve the starting spot but when i look at the numbers, Soto has better numbers than both Martin and McCann except for average.
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayn Perry is a Cardinals fan.
Does that explain things more?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 1, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did not realize that Al
Makes sense
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he spells "Dan" with a "y"
by Shanghai Badger on Jul 1, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he
was a she at first, because of that “y”. My bad, I guess. Sheesh.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Jul 1, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong.
McCann has more HR, better slugging, better everything except for OBP. Do some research.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
does defense count?
pretty blanket statement, “better everything” if you’re going to criticize at least check your own language also.
The Aramis BB/K Watch: 41 BB to 51 K's. One walk to ten k's lately, though he's heating up so I'll take it!
by kylejo on Jul 1, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
his average was over .300 up until a few weeks ago. (its now in the .280s)
Defense wise his fielding percentage is second in the NL @ .996.
Not to mention how well he calls the game.
He will be the first NL rookie catcher. and only the 2nd in the majors.
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayn Perry
Writes some of the dumbest articles in which he has no idea what he is talking about. I choose not to read him anymore especially after articles like http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8140012/NL-primed-to-take-power-from-AL-(finally) one of my personal favorite perry articles
by cubs on Jul 1, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree also.....
However, the Cubs are not a favorite of either ESPN or FoxSports. ESPN’s comments in their power rankings was that “Ryan Theriot leads all 2B’s…....”
We can only hope that he magically becomes a 2B….
by crazymountain on Jul 1, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
by that logic...
Aramis Ramirez leads all Starting Pitchers in Slugging%.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they ARE the leaders in something......
ESPN that is. I saw a commercial…..I wouldn’t doubt that in the next power rankings, Ramirez will be cited as the leading SOMETHING in a position he doesn’t play. They don’t care, they don’t have to, they’re ESPN…..
Ok, I ripped off Lily Tomlin’s phone company commercial for that one…...
by crazymountain on Jul 1, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhh, I like Geo too, but...
Did you look at McCann’s stats before you made that comment?
McCann: .295/.365/.536 with 14 HR
Soto: .284/.371/.517 with 13 HR
To say that Geo has “had a better year, no doubt about it” is ridiculous.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCann also has
a multi-year track record as an excellent MLB catcher. I want Geo to start, but McCann is awesome.
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he is really damn good.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RBI?
Come on man, RBI is a junk stat, and everybody knows it. Thats like saying he has one more run scored. And a difference of 1 is negligible, either way.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let me tell u this
first of all i said Geo deserved to start and said that anybody who says that he doesn’t deserve too is stupid. And btw if u had read i said that McCann, Martin deserve an all-star spot i just believe that Soto deserved to START.
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it's stupid to say
that Brian McCann, who has better stats, should start over Soto? Please explain why.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the fans vote him in to start
and that they have similar numbers for the most part, i think its stupid to say that McCann “pretty clearly deserves it” is just stupid. And those stats are that better aight
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
take a CHILL. we get it. McCann is good.
I’m shocked to hear this earthshattering news… is water wet too?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. (And pitching is king.)
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 1, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So… pretty similar offensive stats. And when you throw in the fact that McCann is on pace to allow an absurd 100 stolen bases this year, Soto becomes the clear choice.
by HereComesASpecialBoy on Jul 1, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well played.
+1 to you, sir.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that makes perfect sense.
Although defense isn’t why players are chosen for the all-star game, but at least it’s a valid point. I still don’t think that you could call either one the “clear choice.” Pretty similar, if you ask me.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my feeling.
There’s not a “wrong” choice in McCann, Martin, and Soto.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First of all i’m sticking up for Soto cause everybody says that McCann deserves to start over him. Their numbers are extremely similar thus how could all the critics say that McCann definitely to start over Soto.
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on that.
They’re all very close. I just disagreed with you saying that ” Geo deserved to start and said that anybody who says that he doesn’t deserve too is stupid,” because I think you could make a good argument for either of the two.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since when isn't defense part of the reason one picks?
If that is the case Theriot has a good average but his defense leaves some to be desired. That is why I didnt vote for him.
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defensive specialists dont make all-star teams.
Everyone knows that. The all star game is about offense, always has been. Soriano? Griffey? Come on.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different eras, different selection methods...
but I’m pretty sure Belanger was an all-star a time or two.
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on Jul 1, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once in 1976
Nobody cares about your fantasy league team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 1, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smith or Guillen?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were both
sharp in the field…and both products of the SD organization.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One word
Ozzie!
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Jul 1, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did look at the stats... but I also looked at the defense ones.
The only thing that is blocking Geo from being number one is the two errors he’s commited in the first half.
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Errors will do that...
And I agree, his defense was better. The only point I was making was that there is no “clear” choice, and a person isn’t stupid if they think Brian McCann should start. Oh, and Ryan Theriot sucks.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The numbers are pretty close
Do you have to take into consideration that Geo has helped put his team into first place while McCann can’t say the same thing. Maybe thats only for MVP/Cy Young voting im not sure.
by cubs on Jul 1, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare he say that about Soto has he bothered to look @ his stats???????
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How else do you determine an all-star?
Of course you probably think Ryan Theriot deserves to be there too, so I’m sure this argument won’t be productive.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot actually has the numbers to be an all-star
too bad the NL is loaded in SS
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please, lexmark, no.
We recently spent days arguing over this, in this diary:
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2008/6/22/556699/ryan-theriot-sucks
There is absolutely no way that Ryan Theriot has the numbers to be an all-star. Ever.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually he has some better numbers than most of his fellow SS
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yay, free numbers!
I much prefer using a handful of numbers, once I’ve established which kinds of numbers do the best job of evaluating a players performance. Otherwise it’s just trivia or data.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cwyers I trust you opinion on stats.
Do I have a valid agrument on Geo’s against McCans?
Im not a saber magician nor do I pretend to be and am curious if the stats I look at prove my point or not.
Hell if I am wrong, atleast I will have learned something
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCann has been doing it longer.
Who really knows what Geo’s true talent level is.
That said, it’s the All Star Game. Even if McCann is a better catcher than Soto (which we don’t know for sure either way right now), it’s the job of Braves fans to vote him there, not me.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, cyers, am I wrong in thinking that
Theriot has the worst range for a SS? I’m not a stats guy by any means….do you have range stats for Theriot v. other shortstops?
by crazymountain on Jul 1, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say that.
It could well be true, but we don’t have stats that measure just “range.” That’s a scouting assessment.
Scouts focus on tools, stats focus on results. You can try to infer one from the other, with varying amounts of success.
But in the case of the fielding metrics I use, I can only tell you about the number of outs recorded versus the amount of opportunities. Zone rating by itself has no way of knowing whether or not a guy has no range or is just Steve Blassing it into the stands night after night.
That said, STATS ZR and BIS ZR both really don’t like Theriot so far this year. I keep expecting to see some marginal improvement in those numbers – he wasn’t this bad last season – but so far, no.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny...
he’s seemed to get worse “range wise” and better “on base wise”
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I see what lexmark is saying.
If you disgregard range, caught stealing, general baserunning, slugging, and throwing arm and focuses only on OBP and average, then Theriot looks like an all star on paper and compares favorably with other NL SS.
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Although defense isn’t why players are chosen for the all-star game" -Sackings108
disregard range, throwing arm
i didn’t know that caught stealing is a major stat for all-star
why do u guys dislike Theriot so much? Like he tries but i do agree that he isn’t that great of a base runner but give the guy credit when credit is due.
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, disregard range and throwing arm
Now lets talk about SB, CS, SLG, anything else in the world. He’s horrible at all of them. Yeah, forget Jose Reyes and Hanley Ramirez, Ryan Theriot is TEHHHH AWESOMMEZZ. Of Course.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no u guys just don't like Theriot for some reason
i didn’t say that he should be an all-star i just said that he had the numbers.
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he doesn't!
What numbers does he have that are all-star numbers? I don’t like Theriot because he’s a bad baseball player.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
when talking about d?
cause u said yourself that defense is not what u choose for an all-star team
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'm talking about offense.
Show me his offensive statistics that make him deserving of an all-star vote.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That link shows that he has a good batting average.
That’s it. Did you bother to look at the other stats, and see how he compares? And if you think batting average is a good stat to measure offense by, than I have nothing else to argue against you with. You’re too far gone, and can’t be helped.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if u think batting average is nothing then
throw out mccann’s average against soto’s
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Throw it out.
How about his SLG and HR? Those matter to you?
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HR by one
soto beating mccann by 1 rbi didnt mean so why would 1 hr mean more, slg is the only one
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because HR is representative
of a player’s power. RBI is representative of nothing, besides getting hits at lucky times
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea but one more...
that shows you they have similar power
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you would think that,
until you see their SLG. Either way, I agree that they have similar stats. They both have a case for starting, neither one is a lock over the other.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
i just don’t agree when people say that McCann greatly deserves over Soto
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what Cubs do you think should be all starts?
Any of them?
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Micah Hoffpauir
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fyi i dont think theriot should be an all-star
Zambrano, Dempster, Soto, Wood, Ramirez,
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant sackings
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes two of us.
I actually agree with the 5 you chose.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
too bad if marmol wasn't on one of his slides
then he should be an all-star although it would be tough to get him in
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, there are some that deserve it.
Soto should go, Ramirez should be a back up. Zambrano and Dempster should go, as should Wood.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hank White
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jul 1, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now now...
he’s not a “bad” baseball player….he’s a decent-to-average second baseman playing out of position.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point, SWL.
I just don’t get how people can claim he has “all star numbers.”
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They simply look at his BA and OBP....
and that’s all.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's if we just throw out the fact...
...that he was one of the worst full-time hitters in the majors last season.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's talking about last season?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point in the season, last year's stats...
...are more predictive of future performance than season to date numbers. (For full-time players from last season, anyway.) True story!
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so that is why you reserve judgement on Soto
b/c the 1st full half of his major league career is a small sample?
as opposed to just comparing numbers of two players during the a certain period of time.
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so your advocating...
benching the guy with the second highest OBP on the team because he didn’t play as good last year?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He mitigates a chunk of that OBP
by getting caught stealing at a high rate and making stupid outs on the basepaths.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's seemed to have stopped running so much...
the past 5 weeks…which is a good thing. And he’s not the only one making dumb outs on the bases. That’s been a problem team wide this year.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it's not a problem
if everyone has it. Ye gods. The man is not a very good ballplayer. At all.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying Theriot is really good...
or even above average, but Lou is starting him at SS and he is what he is. We could do a lot better than him, we could do a lot worse.
I didn’t expect him to play as well as he has so far this season, so I’m taking what we’re getting from him and enjoying the production for now. Yes, there are much better players on this and other teams than Ryan Theriot, but the team just won their 50th game and we’re not even to the AS break yet.
Ryan Theriot’s lack of power, range, and arm rank pretty low on my shit list of complaints in the first half.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jul 1, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The above +1 belongs ynder SWL's post.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jul 1, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm saying that last years numbers have predictive value...
...and that to ignore them paints an unduly rosy picture of Theriot’s abilities.
After his hot April, everyone was saying we should give him a chance to see if he can keep it up. Since then he’s hit .308/.389/.338, for a .727 OPS. You tell me which direction you think his numbers are going from here.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's hitting for average and still getting on base...
but why does what we think or predict will happen to his production nullify what he has/is doing right now? He’s getting on base…at an above average clip. Not making outs is a good thing.
As long as he continues to get on base alot and we continue to win, I don’t have a problem with him starting. Any prolonged period of excessive “out making” is enough for me to call for him to be benched for awhile. Although…I don’t expect much from our alternatives at SS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but hitting for extra bases is a good thing.
And Theriot doesn’t do it. I suppose if you want to go ahead and construct some fanciful system of baseball player evaluation that simply excuses Theriot from hitting for extra bases you can simply ignore that aspect of it. But I fail to see why the rest of us should buy into the idea that his sub-Juan-Pierre power is acceptable from a major league starter.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...
cwyers…I’ve never…repeat never suggested that we overlook Theriot’s shortcomings offensively or defensively. In fact, if you’ll reread my previous posts in this thread I make note of them.
What I’m saying is, Ryan Theriot is (in my opinion) playing “over his head” just enough to not be a total black hole in the lineup.
It’s not like you can say that putting Cedeno in at SS will be much better…considering his numbers from last year.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol @
TEHHHH AWESOMMEZZ
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jul 1, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is:
one of the best three SS on the Cubs roster
gets clutch singles
the starting SS
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
/arguement
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 1, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
Also, Mike Fontenot is one of the best three 2B on the Cubs roster. He’s awesome.
Ryan Theriot should be the starting SS because …... he is the starting shortstop. I’m on the path to enlightenment.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Jul 1, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This what we call circular logic.
What’s great about is that it’s great.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hes a shortstop
hes hitting for the highest average on the team, he takes alot of pitches, his OBP is high, and he is a catylist for the offense, give him a break until his average slips under .300
by cubs on Jul 1, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he gets caught stealing
his range is atrocious, he can’t hit to the left side, and he has no power.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What!?!?!?
Theriot always hits just left of the first baseman!
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean
second baseman. If he hit to the left of the first baseman, he would have more doubles ;).
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Jul 1, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he does hit a lot of
foul balls also
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jul 1, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends if you are
standing at home plate looking out or if you are at first looking at home. Remember the ball goes to the right of the first basemen, its towards left field. just sayin.
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the ball goes just to the right of the first baseman, it's into RF.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is my point
If the ball goes to the right of the first-baseman, it’s foul. or right on the RF line…
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
taking pitches
I’m curious. How does Theriot rank in pitches per PA? Does anyone have that info?
by Tate491 on Jul 1, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 1, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hanley ramirez – 12 errors, .965
ryan theriot-10 errors, .968 fp
hanley does have the better arm but he has made more errors.
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't you just want to disregard range and throwing arm?
And fine, lexmark. You’re starting a team, and you have to choose an SS. Who you takin, Hanley or Ryan?
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would choose hanley
but u tired to make an arguement that went for me. so who looks like the retard now
by lexmarklover on Jul 1, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
I was saying you disregard fielding for the all-star game, not in overall play. And who looks like a retard? Are you 5?
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ex-nay on the r-tard
word, k?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not lexmark,
but Hanley mashes the ball, is a serious SB threat, and is no worse in the field.
by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Anyone with a brain would choose Hanley Ramirez. Ryan Theriot isn’t even close.
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just would like to point out the math here.
Note the two additional errors, and the fact that it’s a statistical dead heat in fielding percentage. What does that tell you?
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Hanley is getting to a lot more balls
than Ryan Theriot is?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS?
Anyone?
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except, If Hanley's getting to the balls,
wouldn’t it be TWHS?
Just sayin…
by sackings108 on Jul 1, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Scott your right!
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 1, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Likely a bit of both.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still thinking HanRam belongs at third base.
I could be wrong.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is that?
You think maybe he bulks up as he gets older, a la A-Rod?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot's primary duty offensively is to score runs
This team has a number of outstanding RBI type hitters, but they have to have runners on. Theriot does that very well and as a result his runs scored per times ab is nearly identical to players like Manny, Jeter, David Wright, Brian Roberts and is better than Alex Rios and Ryan Braun.
Yes-i know his rbi totals are ugly-he will never be a power hitter, nor is he paid to be one.
I completely with Santoswoodenlegs about his true position-he’s a second baseman playing short-whoever said he was a bad ball player needs to get real. He’s got holes in his game, but he’s not bad.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
/leaves to go "get real."
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
surely you weren't the one who said..
..Theriot was a bad baseball player…were you? If you have trouble getting real—go here:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/efjack/REALPLAYER.gif
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anyone's ever wondering who thinks Ryan Theriot...
...is a bad baseball player, that’s me. I’m right over here. Me. Who has two thums and thinks Ryan Theriot is a bad baseball player? This guy.
Does that clear it up any?
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I understand what your saying...
but who do you want to start at SS instead? Cedeno?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the very least, Cedeno needs to be caddying for Marquis.
Maybe Dempster and Gallagher as well – I don’t have Gallagher’s GB/FB splits in front of me. Use him at short during late innings as well, when you’re trying to preserve the lead.
But hope isn’t a plan, and hoping that Theriot can maintain his current level of production against years of evidence that he can do no such thing isn’t a plan. If Cedeno isn’t a plan either, Hendry needs to do something about it.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
73/70
That’s Gallagher’s GB/FB. I like the idea of putting Cedeno in at SS with certain pitchers, but I agree that if he’s not the answer, Hendry needs to begin to explore the market.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, in that case....
maybe I need to examine my perspective since I almost always agree with yours..but in this case you seem to be going overboard in your characterization.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People disagree about things all the time.
No big deal. cwyers and I were at odds earlier this season over the merits of Brandon Inge. Al and I had it out today over Ichiro. It happens. That’s why baseball is a great game because it has an analytical aspect unparalleled by any other game.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I quote:
“The man is not a very good baseball player.”
I said that here. And I really think that.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it depends on your parameters...
He’s good enough to start and hit .300 at the major league level—that ain’t bad. It’s not Reyes, Rollins or maybe even Furcal…but it ain’t bad.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until this season,
that was not the case. But even granted that fact, that’s the only appreciable aspect of his game. His defense is sub par, his baserunning is bad, and he doesn’t hit for power, by which I mean any extra base hits. I don’t expect HR from Ryan, but doubles would help greatly. He’s only hit 12 this season. In 110 fewer AB’s, that noted power hitter (sarcasm!) Reed Johnson has 12 doubles.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea..it probably wouldn't hurt him to reach for a
couple extra biscuits and some seconds on beanns. I don’t remember his base running being that bad last year-was it? I know his CS rate was low, which doesn’t equate 1:1 to a great baserunner-but in ‘06 and ‘07 he had a nice ratio of SB:CS
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just CS,
which is not good this season (BTW, it’s obvious he’s been red-lighted on steals, so he’s short-circuited a bit of his value), but it’s also the outs made on the basepaths, which exclude CS’s. He’s made 4. That’s approaching Moises Alou territory.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have PBP data for this season...
...but he was bad at taking extra bases (going from first to third on a single) last season, IIRC.
by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I saw
that he made 5 last season. Derrek Lee was up there, too last season.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comparing to Alou= shame of shame
do we need to have additional scarlet letters sewn to his uni?
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GV--do you recall gaffes by Theriot..
on the base paths in ‘07? I don’t remember either way, but it seems incongruous to me that a guy could spend his life working up to the majors and have a couple good years stealing and then forget how.
AND smell it up on the basepaths to the point that people recall the exploits of urine hands.
I'm a good speller, but my typing creates a SERIOUS vacuum. (especially while I'm at work sticking it to the man)
by cubfever7 on Jul 1, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't recall
specific games, right off the top of my head, but I seem remember him being picked off first once or twice.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hit 30 doubles last year...
and we all know what kind of hitter he was then.
The fact remains…he’s got on base almost 40% of the time…if he can keep that up and stop trying to steal bases (which he isn’t good at), he’s serviceable enough in this lineup to be somewhat effective.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i got lost
who are you talking about SWL?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Figured
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 1, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in 80 fewer AB's
Jacque Jones hit 33.
He’ll have to keep that OBP right where it is. That’s true, because that’s all he’s got.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I've been trying to say.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 1, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs