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A post on MlbTraderumors.com about the Cubs

http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/MlbTradeRumors/~3/324143068/gammons-on-the.html

A summary of Peter Gammons thoughts on the Cubs. He seems to think that there are 7 possibilities at this point.  I know, Gammons has lost a lot of credibility in recent years on this sort of thing, but I thought I'd pass it along for discussion at least.

Gammon's Original post can be found here: http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3468219&name=gammons_peter

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I want someone under 30

The Cubs do have enough for Sabathia, they MUST give up minor leaguers, but I don’t think the Tribe is ready to give up on their season just yet.

"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 1, 2008 11:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

They're checking in, though.

What we’re reading is part of the game in how they are presenting themselves. Plus, the Cubs have to downplay for Chicago the possibility that they could get CC.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They Don't

have enough mostly because the players they would have to trade would be on the MLB roster and therefore hurt them this year in other areas. I like Randy Wolf and we can probably get him for cheap but, I don’t know how much of an upgrade he is over Marshall or Gallagher

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 11:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Does it matter?

1) Murton for Wolf.

2) Jason Marquis becomes a utility infielder.

3) Profit!

by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Step 2

Sounds like the perfect solution to me, and it should make the gnomes very happy.

by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Jul 1, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As if Mike Fontenot

doesn’t do that already

"I wish I had a dollar for every time I spent a dollar, because then I'd have all my money back."
-Jack Handey

by deepthoughtsbyjackhandey on Jul 1, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wolf is underrated.

Yes he has the splits and all, but take out his start against the Cubs and his numbers look a lot better. He strikes people out and that immediately makes him a major upgrade over Marquis.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he also breaks down

almost every year in the 2nd half…

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 1, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The question with Wolf is

Is he over his injury that plagued him for the past several years. I’m sure that the Cubs will check that out. If he is acquired, I won’t be too worried about him, because they’ll likely have gotten a good report. Wolf is different than Burnett, in my view. Burnett has a history of always being injured in different ways. Wolf was good for several years, had TJ, and has taken time to get back from it, also dealing with the shoulder problems that sometimes follow TJ.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we're now 4 years removed

from the last time he eclipsed 125 innings

http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wolfra02.shtml

him breaking down is certainly a trend i’m concerned about

by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 1, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, it's a concern.

I think Wolf’s concern is the kind you can screen for, whereas with Bedard/Harden/Burnett, these guys look to just be more injury prone in general. Does that make sense at all?

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

burnett

get him and enjoy. second half last year.

2007: 3.01 ERA 1.09 WHIP 71 ip 70 k’s

trade Toronto the MI’s they want, toss in a pitcher, enjoy the ace arm.

The Aramis BB/K Watch: 41 BB to 51 K's. One walk to ten k's lately, though he's heating up so I'll take it!

by kylejo on Jul 1, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I think that Burnett or Wolf would be a nice addition and i agree with cwyers wolf for murton would be a great deal

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wolf for murton

I think it might take a little more than just matt murton to pry Randy Wolf away from the Pds, but if they’re willing to do a one for one deal I’m all for it.

by cubs on Jul 1, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Towers

likes Murton as stated in the article and has been trying to get him for years, but it probably would require something else to

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marquis has a reputation as a guy that blows up in the second half...

...and has a 4.96 ERA in the first half of this year. You could trade Marquis and cash for something, if by something you mean Jose Vidro.

by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zero.

I wouldn’t play Vidro in the field at all.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He can't hit, either.

It must be difficult, being the worst player on a team that has Willie Bloomquist and Richie Sexson on it.

by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

makes you wonder

how Bavasi kept that gig as long as he did.

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Jul 1, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not even as an emergency catcher?

Now, to finally get serious, where’s the sarcasm font?

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean, we can get Burnett's performance from last year this year?

Sweet deal. Perhaps we could trade them Marquis’ first half performance from last year for Burnett’s second half performance.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In that vein I think both Wolf and Burkett would be a welcome addition

If Cubs can trade Murton and another throw in (Nate Spears) for Wolf (half of $4.75M this year) and also acquire Burkett this would add greatly to the rotation, Z-Demp-Lilly-Burkett-Wolf…...move Marquis to the bullpen and then trade him before or after the waiver wire there will be takers.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jul 1, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

John Burkett retired quite some time ago.

I’m sure you mean Burnett.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've pointed this out to him previously, but..........

..............Ivy Walls seems bent on the return of John Burkett.

Maybe at the Kerry Wood bowling event, but I don’t see him contributing on the roster.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Jul 1, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure why anyone thinks Burnett

is worth the price of acquiring him. Sure he has been good in the past, but he’s injury-prone and not good this year. It’s possible that he’s not good this year because he’s injured. I like Lieber and Gallagher better than Burnett once you factor in what we have to give up to get him. Maybe I’m overestimating the price of Burnett.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry but...

It maybe true that Burnett has some injury problems but at his best Leiber and Gallagher can’t compete with him. I get what you are trying to say but he is in a different class than those 2 when he is at his best or even 90%.

"Go Cubs Go"

by mkcubs21 on Jul 1, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, sure

But the question is – why do you think you’d get Burnett at his best (or even at 90%)? Similar question – why not trade for Greg Maddux? At his best, or even 80% of it, he’s better than all these pitchers combined. His ERA in the second half of 2002 was 2.42. But we’d get 2008 Maddux and we’d get 2008 Burnett. Are you sure 2008 Burnett would be better than 2008 Maddux?

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Valid point..

If you get Greg Maddux I agree he is more worthwhile than at least Leiber, and probably Gallagher as well, plus he’ll pitch rest of the season, no injury worries with Maddux. Now Burnett has appeared for the most part healthy this season and really has been pitching better as of late (I’m not going to dig up his most recent starts but I know that they have been better rather than worse just by following the numbers) and there have been many a pitcher that when they first come to the National League they are much better (Lilly was that way last year).

There is no guarantee that you are getting Burnett at his best is better than the 3 of the guys being mentioned but i still think Burnett at 75-80 is still a helluva pitcher. Either way he is a solid #2/#3 which right now ranks higher than Gallagher, Lieber, and Maddux IMO. I’m not saying we give away the farm to get this guy but i truely don’t believe we have enough guys to get C.C. and I’m not sold on Bedard, I really think our best shot is to go after a Burnett for our 2/3 and then try at a Maddux or Wolf for our 4/5.

"Go Cubs Go"

by mkcubs21 on Jul 1, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd trade a limited package for Burnett

but I don’t think the limited package is going to cut it. Then the question you have to ask yourself is – is Burnett’s current pitching value likely to be high enough over Gallagher/Lieber to be worth it?

June 2008 stats
Burnett: 5.06 ERA 37.1 IP 43 K, 3 good outings, two horrific outings, 1 so-so outing
Maddux 4.71 ERA 36.1 IP 15 K, 3 good outings, two horrific outings, one questionable outing (5 R, 2 ER)
Gallagher 4.26 ERA 27.2 IP 30 K, 2 good outings, 2 so-so outings, 1 bad outing

Sure, with ERA there is the problem of park effects, but eyeballing it, I’d rather save my trade bullets.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's no sample size issue if you are reporting what's happened over the past month.

The only sample size issue comes in when you try and make the stats predictive, which I wasn’t. I was responding to a comment about Burnett doing better as of late.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd agree with that.

You might not have to give up as much for Burnett since he has the possibility have staying two more years. I agree that Maddux’s numbers can be more consistant, but I do think that right now Burnett is a better pitcher. I’d love to have Maddux back to get Marquis out of the rotation but he isn’t a #2/3 guy anymore while Burnett still is IMO.

As far as trade bullets it depends, If we can’t get another top of the rotation guy (2/3) then Burnett might not be to bad. We’ve done well lately with disgruntled former Blue Jays (Johnson and Lilly, Johnson wasn’t really disgruntled but he was released so it works for this). I agree with you, but i’d take a chance on Burnett and then pick up Maddux for the back end of the rotation lol

"Go Cubs Go"

by mkcubs21 on Jul 1, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Though I am still pissed

at Maddux getting shelled last night a practical note
Burnett is going to be owed 24 MILLION DOLLARS ( 12 for each of the
the next two years) in addition to what you have to pay THIS year.
Hendry may have a some money to spend but taking on 24 million for
Burnett is not going to cut it.

I still think Maddux is not moving but his “cost” is minimal. Murton
or a decent prospect and the remaining 3.2 million for THIS year
No further committment is expected or needed.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 1, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dollars to donuts

Burnett opts out. Only if his arm falls off and he’ll be out for two years does he not opt out.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah and who wouldn't want to be a part of that contract

The good news is if he’s really good you only get him for three months!

The bad news is if he’s really terrible you owe him $24M over the next 2 years!

by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2008 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ha you're serious?

he just came off an 8 inning shutout with 11 k’s. he’s only 31 and has ace stuff, and was good last year. he has been better in the second half each of the last two years. and what is the price of acquiring him? he has been bad this year, is opting out, and the jays have said they want middle infielders. i think that makes him a perfect fit.

The Aramis BB/K Watch: 41 BB to 51 K's. One walk to ten k's lately, though he's heating up so I'll take it!

by kylejo on Jul 2, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has been lights out his last couple starts

But he also is a fly ball pitcher and could have trouble at Wrigley.

by cubs on Jul 1, 2008 11:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Boo Randy Wolf

Too old and won’t contribute. I will say that before Burnett’s last start that I did not want him, but his performance was simply buck nasty.

Obviousy attempt to try for Sabathia and Harden

If the Cubs got Bronson Arroyo I would have to see Jim Hendry and give him a slap to the face

I think my favorite uncle was Uncle Caveman. We called him that because he lived in a cave and would eat one of us. We then realized he was a bear.

by deepthoughtsbyjackhandey on Jul 1, 2008 11:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who cares if he is old

he can pitch and he is cheap agree with you though about arroyo

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will puke if the best we can do is Randy Wolf

That would be truly pathetic

"This is why Major League Baseball does not need instant replay, because then every single play will then be reviewed." -- Joe Morgan, 5/18/08, referring to an umpire ruling a Carlos Delgado homerun foul when replays showed it hit the foul pole.

by CubsBall2202 on Jul 1, 2008 11:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bronson Arroyo

would be even more pathetic, I cannot believe his name is even “kicked around”

I think my favorite uncle was Uncle Caveman. We called him that because he lived in a cave and would eat one of us. We then realized he was a bear.

by deepthoughtsbyjackhandey on Jul 1, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I only hope

he gets kicked around the next time he pitches against us

I think my favorite uncle was Uncle Caveman. We called him that because he lived in a cave and would eat one of us. We then realized he was a bear.

by deepthoughtsbyjackhandey on Jul 1, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I say

we just sign fred garcia because the trade market is pretty weak and please don’t puke

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d like to know what he looked like in the mesa “try-outs” the cubs gave him a couple of weeks ago

"Yeeaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssssssss!"
"Oh boy Patrick..."
"Because of that Home Run, Walgreens JD....donate...kids...to the needy fund...boy I'm just a little worked up." - Ron Santo

by IvyOnTheWall on Jul 1, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he said he feels like

he has a new shoulder but, he is also trying to get paid

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also from gammon’s blog post

“The Rays are focused on a right-handed hitter. Matt Murton and Xavier Nady are on the radar.”

"Yeeaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssssssss!"
"Oh boy Patrick..."
"Because of that Home Run, Walgreens JD....donate...kids...to the needy fund...boy I'm just a little worked up." - Ron Santo

by IvyOnTheWall on Jul 1, 2008 12:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Murton for Kazmir

that sounds doable. Then we can send Fontenot, Pie and Hill for CC!

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 1, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn’t Kazmir injured for a little while last year?

ha

by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's had injury problems over the last 2 or 3 seasons.

Not as serious as Harden’s or Burnett’s, but enough to be a concern. His main problem is that he’s not very economical with his pitches and doesn’t go deep into his starts.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry...

I was being a complete and total smartass.

Regardless of the injuries and his pitch counts, coughing up Murton for Kazmir is one of those trades where stints on the DL and economy of pitches don’t matter.

by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tease. ;-)

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't mean to be,

but felt guilty after your serious reply.

by N Oakley on Jul 1, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MURTON

is on the rays radar as they are looking for a right ahnded bat according to the next post on mlbtraderumors.com and peter gammons

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 12:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but what do the Rays have that we want?

Limiting this to things that are available for Matt Murton.

by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cue "Jeopardy" music...

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea

but they have the best farm in baseball, just get anything for him they should go after Hammel or one of their back end rotation guys or one of there quality pitchers in the minors

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

could get some extra prospects from TB and then package them to the indians

"Yeeaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssssssss!"
"Oh boy Patrick..."
"Because of that Home Run, Walgreens JD....donate...kids...to the needy fund...boy I'm just a little worked up." - Ron Santo

by IvyOnTheWall on Jul 1, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...I guess we could try the "Flip this Prospect" approach

That is something that I have not seen discussed yet…

The multiple team deal…. Still don’t think we can ge the prospects for CC but I guess ya might be able to get get some prospects that you can flip for a Burnett, Cook, or somebody else

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Jul 1, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do not want Cooke...

Very possible he could implode…

by smitster2008 on Jul 1, 2008 12:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why do you say that?

His home/road splits are nearly even, and his ERA is a half-run lower in the second half, over his career.

Plus, he’s not even available, so it’s probably not even an argument worth having.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

won't get him

anyways the Rokcies won’t trade him

by oeosoto on Jul 1, 2008 12:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rumor is that the

We are still interested in Fuentes along with the Cardinals and that Birds are interested in Holliday. I find Holliday interesting since they already have Ankiel, Ludwig, and Schumaker. I guess they don’t value Schumaker in the leadoff spot a whole lot.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Jul 1, 2008 1:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Fuentes got lit up by the Padres last night.

Nuff said.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh come now.

On 6/25, Fuentes had a 2.01 ERA. So he’s had 2 bad appearances in a row. The guy has been pretty good outside of that all year long and for the past couple of season too. He’s 32 and has averaged over a strikeout per inning during his career.

Now, I’m not saying the Cubs need another reliver like him, but if he could find his way on the team, I’m sure he could find some real good uses for him.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Jul 1, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So did Maddux

So maybe we can stop the talk of him coming back as well!

by cubdreamer on Jul 1, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, geez.

The game was in Coors Field. Just about anyone can get lit up in Coors Field.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately,the balls fly out

just as well @ Wrigley during the summer months.

by cubdreamer on Jul 1, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not quite as much as at Coors.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 1, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we have enough..

We can sell Wellington Castillo to teams as the next Soto. I’m sure Rich Hill could use a change of scenary. He’s got to have some type of value. Pie’s probably got some value.

If we are really “motivated”, we will get it done. But when I say motivated, that means havving to give up Vitters. Tony Thomas would be valuable to the Indians. They really don’t have a 2b man, and Thomas is only a year or a year and a half off.

But man, Cooke would be great in Wrigley.

Devin Hester, you are rediculous! -Jeff Joniak

by ARAM FOR MVP on Jul 1, 2008 1:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think this brings up an interesting point

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some organization may look at some of the Cub prospects and think they are absolute gold. Maybe Castillo, Marshall, Pie, Patterson and others are highly coveted by someone.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Jul 1, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

We can continue to check all rumors & say the Cubs don’t have enough, or don’t think they have enough. Maybe other organizations see some things in our prospects that they don’t think we have spotted. Therefore, they have value to the other organization. I personally think that Hendry and the Cubs are playing their cards close to the vest, trying their best to get Sabathia. We’ll see. (Just so you know, I realize everyone thinks it’s a pipe dream that the Cubs get C.C., so I’m not interested in rehashing it. Thanks.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 1, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think CC is possible

just not something to set one’s hopes on. I still think it is possible that the best pitching prospect available on the trade market could end up being Sean Gallagher, simply because no other high-ceiling prospects will be available.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zack Greinke

I know his name has been tossed around as being available and not available. He could be very valuable pitcher to trade for, eventhough he has had some “issues”.

It says here, he's a magician, and he plays the guitar. -- I believe it says he is a musician, Ron. (Ron and Pat discussing Barry Zito)

by MFine2 on Jul 1, 2008 1:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We shall see

He will be arbitration eligible once again this coming off-season and is pitching well enough to highly inflate his $1.4 million contract for 2009. Since he will be eligible for free agency in 2010, the team would be smart to investigate what it will take sign him long term this month. If he asks too much, I expect the team to start looking for suitors. The Royals really need to splash the cash on players like him to start working out of their perpetual hole, but they do not have the reputation for doing that (beyond Mike Sweeney). Hence, he could be had right near the deadline. I wouldn’t wait on his availability though, especially since his previous social anxiety disorder issues make him a bit questionable for a pennant chase.

by Qixotl on Jul 1, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

CC and the Brewers

Lot’s of speculation that the Brewers will push to get Sabathia, so even if we don’t “have enough” to get him, whatever that means (we do have enough) then we should at least stay invested in the trade talk when/if they happen as a means of driving up the price for the Brewers.

Tell me, assuming Cleveland had no other competeing offers would they turn down Hill/Pie for two months of Sabathia? I don’t know whether it would be worth it to the Cubs but no doubt Cleveland can’t do better than that with supplemental draft picks. Not to mention guys like Gallagher, Colvin, Vitters, Ascanio, Samardizja etc etc.. We certainly don’t have one of the best farm systems in the league but we do have enough to rent anyone for 2 months.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jul 1, 2008 3:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hill's ERA today at Mesa was 108.00.

I think a lot of teams could turn him down.

by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap.

That guy has really lost his shit.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think

people are going to ignore what he’s done in the majors the last two years though. This year is the abberation, his value has gone down quite a bit but I doubt too many teams would actively turn him down.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jul 1, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Cleveland thinks they can't do better than Hill & Pie with two high draft picks of their own...

...they should fire their scouting director and everyone who works for him.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure if firing is sever enough.

They should be tarred, feathered and ridden out of town on a rail.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See this is the idea that I think misunderstands how these trades work

Sure, you can get two prospects ranked higher than any two Cubs prospects by drafting two players in 2009, but none of those draftees will help the Indians in 2009. If the Indians look at Hill and Pie and see something that they think they can fix, then Hill and Pie still have the ceilings to make us trading them (and whatever other pieces it would take) for Sabathia look very foolish. All you have to do is remember how people talked about the AJ for Liriano, Bonser, and Nathan trade before Liriano was injured. Sometimes there really are diamonds in the rough.

The benefit the Cubs tradeable pieces have is that most of them should be ready to help in 2009. The Indians may choose to take a package that is less valuable in the long run if they think it will help them win next year.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but our actually good and valuable ready-now players are...

...duh, actually on our team now. Soto, Marmol, Gallagher… even Theriot if you lean that way. The rest of our B-level prospects are not likely to net Sabathia from the Indians. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible, but it’s a fact.

by cwyers on Jul 1, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with "not likely"

I disagree with “no way, no how” (which I recognize you are not saying).

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You really think that?

you really think the Cubs “tradeable pieces” will be ready to help in 2009? If Pie and Hill weren’t ready this year, do you see anything in what they’ve done so far this year that gives you any confidence they will be major-league ready next year? I don’t. If anything, they’ve regressed. Severely. And I don’t have an ax to grind against those guys – I like them both. I thought for sure they’d be contributing to the Cubs this year. Shows you what I know…

Unless something dramatic happens down on the farm in the next month, if I’m Mark Shapiro, I look at Hill and Pie and think yeah, maybe there’s still something there, but I’m not going to risk my big chit (CC) for a couple of “maybes”. If I can’t get at least one “for sure” for 2009 (i.e. LaPorta), then yeah, I am better off relying on my own scouts. If I draft college talent, there’s an outside chance an arm could help by the end of 2009 – certainly a good chance in 2010. Who knows – there’s still an outside outside chance they re-sign CC anyway.

It’s pretty simple really – you’re saying Hill and Pie are better than a couple high draft picks. I’m saying they’re not. Agree to disagree?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2008 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What I said was

Pie and Hill “and whatever other pieces it would take.” I don’t think Pie and Hill are going to get it done no matter how much Shapiro likes them, because their overall value in the general marketplace is too low. If Shapiro thinks he can fix Hill and if he thinks Pie will do fine when untethered from Lou, then a trade package of Pie, Hill, Gallagher, Veal, and Patterson is potentially doable, but even then, only if he likes Gallagher, Veal, and Patterson, too.

One of my points is that all of those players could be a part of a 2009 run. No player drafted in 2009 will be a part of the 2009 run (except maybe a college closer). Certainly all of those players could be busts and not be a part of a 2010 run – but we, and even Shapiro have no way of knowing that. The question is – not what ballhawk in his respectable opinions believes – not what DGU in his hopefully also respectable opinions believes – but what Shairo in his eminently respectable opinions believes.

My major point is this – we have no idea what Shapiro thinks of our tradeable pieces. He may like Gallagher less than any of these other names. He may think Tony Thomas is our best prospect. We don’t know.

So, we can get a decent idea of what each player’s general value in the general market might be, and we can agree that a package of Gamel and LaPorta is hard to beat in general terms, but Shapior may not like either LaPorta or Gamel. Neither LaPorta nor Gamel may be on the market. And if Shaprio thinks Gallagher is the best pitcher on the market, then it may not matter if both LaPorta AND Gamel are on the market.

That’s what Gallagher really has going for him – he’s ready now; he’s pitching well.

by DGU on Jul 1, 2008 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

cleveland would probably rather have marshall than hill at this point…....

by cubsmania on Jul 1, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok.

fine by me. Just keep Gallagher.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 1, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs should either get sabathia or burnett

both of those guys can be dominant if pitching well and thats what we need….we don’t need another average starter.

by cubsmania on Jul 1, 2008 4:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

To get CC....

possibilities are a three team deal mentioned above, prospects (Veal comes to mind) plus (I really hate to say this but….) Ted Lilly, and Jason Marquis gives them a right-now MLB starter…...Gallagher is a tough kid and only 22 and I think a great #5 for us.

Now, Cleveland is going to get two draft picks when CC goes at the end of the year. So why do the Cubs think they don’t have enough to get him?

There must be a boatload of possibilities (well above my level of understanding but now Hendry’s) to work out a deal (or deals) for CC and, if we can acquire and SIGN CC, then Burnett looks much better as a # 4 or #5 starter.

I am obviously missing something. I would think we could easily put together a package that would do more for the Indians now and in the future than the two draft picks that Cleveland would get when CC walks. Help me out here folks!!!

by crazymountain on Jul 1, 2008 4:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I want to agree with you..

but we don’t have the farm to do the trade straight up. and I seriously doubt they’d take Lilly and Marquis for him. They’d want some young up and comers before a couple 30 somethings. I’d love to have C.C. but i just dont think its going to happen.

"Go Cubs Go"

by mkcubs21 on Jul 1, 2008 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe that I spelled "now" instead of "not"

damn, I get into horrible confused typoing sometimes…...brain says something, fingers have a mind of their own….

by crazymountain on Jul 1, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you follow the draft much? I used to, but not so much anymore.

Admittedly, there’s not as much pizzazz as the NBA or NFL, but there’s still a certain amount of anticipation and drooling that goes on even amongst the casual fans when you’re looking at first round talent. Who’s the next Strawberry, Griffey, or ARod coming out of high-school? Or all the big stud arms in college that look like they could walk on the mound tomorrow. I admit it – I drooled over Mark Prior and that perfect delivery when he was on the mound at USC. And I remember Ben MacDonald from LSU was going to be the second coming….

Anyway, my point is I think teams have always gotten excited over the potential talent that they can get from the high rounds of the draft, especially as agents and salary demands have come into play and more talented players drop due to signability issues. And lately a team’s fan base is buying into this as well. So there’s a certain glitz factor on the draft these days, and a smart team can use that glitz to help market the team to its fans. Obviously it goes without saying that the scouting quality has to be there or you’ll crash and burn after a few cycles.

So tell me, when you look at Hill, Pie, or any of the other Cubs trading chips – do you see any glitz there? Marmol and Soto – sure, but I don’t think anyone thinks they’re in play. Gallagher – maybe. Vitters – maybe. Other than that… I don’t see it.

Understand, I’m not talking talent – I’m talking giltz and talent. And I just think that if the Indians can’t get a glitz talent like Marmol, LaPorta, or Kemp/Ethier as a centerpiece to any package, then they would rather rely on their scouts and roll the dice in the draft.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jul 1, 2008 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They would not touch Marquis

and we are not going to trade Lilly. Gallager is surely of interest but unless there are
virtually no other bidders or they won’t offer good players Cubs are on the outside looking in
here.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 1, 2008 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hill and Pie

for C.C.? You guys are a riot. You need to get a gig at Funny Bone or something. I nearly peed my pants laughing at that one.

by MickS on Jul 1, 2008 7:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I've been trying to say that.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Salesmanship

Time was when salesmanship was a big part of a GM’s success when it came time to deal. The better you could talk up your prospects, the better you could hornswaggle another team out of its better players for a handful of magic beans. But I wonder if that’s even a factor any more, what with the handiness of player profiles and statistics at a rival GM’s fingertips.

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 1, 2008 7:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Enough of the C.C. rumors already

I don’t why some Cubs gans are getting their hopes high to get him. I know there is a small chance, but here is the bottom line: no Gallagher in the deal=no deal. The Cubs have already said Gallagher will not be traded off (according to www.mlbtraderumors.com) and the best SP the Cubs can get can only be a number 3-4 starter (and BlueMike, enough of your Harden fetishism, it is starting to creep out every Cubs fans on BCB).

I know cwyers said Cubs might have a shot at Bedard, but I am not sure who the Mariners really want. I know their offense is horrible and they could use some OF, a new 1B, new SS etc., but lets hope their demands limits to a bunch of type B prospects.

Maddux makes no sense for this team. Al, I know you think Maddux would make a difference for this team, but he is at best a number 4-5 starter. Maybe 3-4 years younger Maddux would have been a solid number 3 option, but at this point of his career I don’t think he will fare well in Wrigley Field or let alone the hitter parks.

Wolf? look at his road ERA and it tells the whole story. He is also nothing more than a number 4-5 starter.

Burnett? He is not a bad option and I don’t know why people are so down on him. His career ERA is around the mid 3’s and I know he is not the same SP since his days with the Marlins, but he still has the capability to dominate in any game. Also, the Jays are looking desperately to trade him off so they can use the $$$ for their main issues (offense). Quite frankly, I would say he is the easiest number 3 starter to acquire (that is, comparing to Bedard and Sabathia).

by Geo4MVP on Jul 1, 2008 7:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I didn't think the Cubs said Gallagher DEFINITELY wouldn't be dealt

I thought they were just saying they would try everything not to move him.

But do you really think that if the Indians asked for Sabathia for Gallagher straight up, the Cubs would say no? Of course not. Thus, it’s just a matter of what else the Cubs would be willing to include.

by AceCubbie on Jul 1, 2008 7:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But of course that won't happen

Therefore, don’t expect the Cubs to trade off Galagher in any mutiplayer deal.

by Geo4MVP on Jul 1, 2008 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hill and Pie for CC Sabathia?

Some of you really need to get help.

Pitching is KING. We don't add a frontline starting pitcher and a quality bullpen arm then this season will have yet another sad conclusion.

by MDBNIU on Jul 1, 2008 8:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You're bit late.

cwyers, ballhawk and I. among others have been making that point most of the day.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 1, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know right?

It’s almost as absurd as suggesting that Tim Hudson is available.

You going to explain that one yet? I’ve asked nicely twice now.

by Wreckard on Jul 1, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The deal

I actually think there is a deal to be had if… the Cubs give up a little more than they want to and the Indians accept a little less than they would like. It’s something like Gallagher, Vitters and Donaldson.

by MickS on Jul 1, 2008 9:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The idea is to get a #1 starter not

just another pitcher. What good is Wolf. He’s no better than Gallagher or Marshall. If they can’t get CC, Harden or some other top of the rotation guy, I don’t see the sense. They need two #1’s if they want to win a world series.

by Rick B on Jul 2, 2008 12:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree. I'm more in this boat.

If the Cubs are unable to trade for a pitcher who substantially makes the rotation better, I hope they use their chips to improve somewhere else, like say MI defense for instance (which would improve the pitching in a less direct way). I realize Hendry is probably thinking the same thing.

by philadelphiacub on Jul 2, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds Good

I know the bench will improve once Soriano and ARam and Theriot are back at full strength, but it still never hurts to add a couple solid veteran performers when you can. As a Red Sox fan, I was really impressed with their acquiring Dave Roberts and Doug Mientkiewicz to strengthen their bench in 2004 – in my opinion they don’t win it all that year without those two.

So if C.C. or Harden are a no-go, maybe Big Jim can land a Frank Catalanotto or a Brad Hawpe or even a Xavier Nady to spell the regulars and solidify our options off the bench.

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 2, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where is Bedard on that list?

I know he hasn’t been that great since moving to Seattle, but I would like our chances with him over Wolf.

by madtown on Jul 2, 2008 9:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Apparently...

The Indians have scouted Andres Torres, Tony Thomas Jr, Jake Fox, Donny Veal, Billy Muldowney, Kevin Kreier, Marquez Smith, and Alessandro Maestri pretty heavily.

Jim Edmonds has seriously become my favorite player. WHAT'S HAPPENING????

by Cub Style on Jul 2, 2008 3:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting -

Where did you get this information? If true, it goes to my point that the Indians may have interest in players we would never expect.

by DGU on Jul 2, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MLB Trade Rumors

On the board of one of the Sabathia threads, all the Indians fans were saying that they were the ones the Indians wanted. I don’t know if there is any truth in it but it seems reasonable since they are all about one year away with the exception of Kreier.

Jim Edmonds has seriously become my favorite player. WHAT'S HAPPENING????

by Cub Style on Jul 2, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I found...

...the comment you’re alluding to. I wouldn’t trust it with Jason Marquis’ life.

by cwyers on Jul 2, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is it

“If I’m cleveland I want thomas over patterson
Tony Thomas 2nd Base / Andres Torres switchhitting Outfielder /
Marquez Smith 3rd base / Kevin Kreier Pitcher / Billy Muldowney Pitcher /Alessandro Maestri Pitcher
These are said to be the players the Indians are most interested in and you may have to throw in another player to get the job done.

But you could get Byrd for Thomas and Smith most likely

Posted by: baseballnuts | June 21, 2008 at 02:07 PM”

This is it, it may have been something on the radio or the newspaper. Or maybe I’m just too lazy to look anything else up.

Jim Edmonds has seriously become my favorite player. WHAT'S HAPPENING????

by Cub Style on Jul 2, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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