Mark McGwire: Hitting Coach??
I wanted to share something that I saw in USA Today today (and something I wrote in my blog). Did anyone see the feature article on Mark McGwire and the fact that he has been quietly helping hitters in various levels in baseball? I have very mixed feelings about him. I hate him for using andro and how he acted in the 2005 hearings in Congress. I hate him for doing a lot of this for the Cardinals and against the Cubs. But outside of this, should he be penalized harshly? Does what he did rank as bad as Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson? I'm just throwing this out to see what everyone thinks. When I see NFL players able to come back from drug suspensions and be successful afterward (Shawne Merriman comes to mind), it made wonder a bit after I read this article. Check it out at: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-06-30-mcgwire_N.htm
I write this as I see the WGN poll question asking if Barry Bonds will ever play again? Let's hope not...
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Well, if you hate Mark McGwire you should be
for using andro and how he acted in front of Congress, you should probably be considering the same feelings for Sammy Sosa. No one found any andro in Sammy’s locker, but by the same token, neither tested positive for anything, illegal or otherwise, and it’s all just speculation. Furthermore, Sosa forgetting the English language was equally as gutless as McGwire’s refusals to talk about the past.
As to your questions:
1) Thanks for the link. The story is a fluff piece completely transparent in its attempt to improve McGwire’s Hall chances. But that’s USA Today’s business.
2) He should not be penalized harshly as he did not break any rules of major league baseball. So officially, the answer is no.
3) Comparing McGwire’s alleged involvement in the steroid era of baseball is an entirely different argument from gambling issues – whether as a player or manager. Apples and Oranges.
As to the NFL and steroids. There is no perception of purity to the NFL. What I mean is, people have always wanted the biggest, fastest, baddest gladiators beating the snot out of each other on a Sunday, and pharmaceuticals have helped create this. No problem. The NFL knows what sells its product. However, with baseball, there is this overglorified, inherently romantic notion of a storied pastime – nevermind the amphetimine use or coke use or steroid use or whatever that’s been a part of the game for 50 years. Most casual fans, when they look at baseball want to see ‘Hey Dad, Let’s have a catch.” Most casual NFL fans want to see someone get “JACKED UP!”.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on
Jul 2, 2008 12:24 AM CDT
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+1
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jul 2, 2008 7:17 AM CDT
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It's a myth that steroid users didn't break the rules of baseball
A year earlier Congress had raised penalties for possessing those and 25 other anabolics. But now the stuff violated baseball’s rules, too. On June 7, 1991, commissioner Fay Vincent sent a memo to each team and the players union that stated: “The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited … This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs … including steroids.” The seven-page document didn’t cover random testing - that had to be bargained with the union - but it did outline treatment and penalties.
It is true that there wasn’t the testing. But the fact is, steroids were against the rules of baseball.
If all McGwire did was andro, he’d be a hitting coach right now. He might even be a AA manager. No one with a functioning cerebellum believes that’s all he did.
As for Sosa and his English language issues. Let me ask you this:
You’re conversant in Spanish. You live in Argentina or Honduras and get by pretty well. Then you find yourself in a situation where you are under oath and there are penalties for perjury.
You think you might ask for a translator?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 2, 2008 10:16 AM CDT
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One memo one day in 1991
They clearly took a hard-line stand against steroid use.
Everyone always trots Vincent’s memo as proof that steroids were against the rules; to me it just proves how allowed they were. That one single memo from the previous commissioners tenure is the sole thing baseball can point at and say “See, we tried!” tells you everything you need to know about how much they wanted to get rid of steroids at the time.
We just need to let the whole era go. McGwire, Sosa, Bonds – these guys were what they were. We can’t know what they’d have been without steroids any more than we can know how good the guys from baseball’s “golden era” would have been without amphetamines.
by Wreckard on
Jul 2, 2008 11:10 AM CDT
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Regardless of the motive
The rule was there. So you can’t argue that it wasn’t against the rules.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 2, 2008 11:47 AM CDT
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I didn't.
To be fair, when you’re talking about McGwire, he’s tied directly to Andro – which wasn’t against the rules at the time. The steroid accusations are less substantiated (though, granted, they’re probably true).
My point is simply that you have to just take the entire era at face value. What happened happened. The numbers are there and shouldn’t get asterisks, or erased, or whatever. It’s a slippery slope to start picking and choosing what events from that era we want to recognize.
by Wreckard on
Jul 2, 2008 11:55 AM CDT
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No one is talking asterisks
McGwire was a hero to millions. He made a ton of money, on and off the field, for hitting 70 home runs. He has a World Series ring. No one can take any of that away from him.
I’m not in favor of re-writing the record books. I think the record books are overrated anyway, since all records pre 1961 came in a 154-game season and all records pre 1969 came with a 15-foot high mound and all records pre-1972 came before the DH.
It’s enough for me that we continually talk about it. It’s enough that Ken Griffey Jr. gets recognized as being clean and having done it the right way.
And it will be enough if we keep the known (or very strongly suspected) roid users out of the Hall and elevate the known clean ones (such as Andre Dawson and Jim Rice)
McGwire, Sosa and Bonds, among others, should have to prove their worth to be in the Hall. This isn’t a court of law. We can find them guilty until they prove otherwise.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 2, 2008 12:13 PM CDT
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That's valid..
sure, I’d ask for a translator. But the prepared statement and answers read by his lawyer were just as packaged as McGwire’s remarks/answers except no one remembers Sammy because he didn’t speak. Smart move if you ask me. The point being that if someone dislikes Mcgwire for his performance before Congress, I don’t see much reason not to like Sosa’s as well.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
by Gibbon Jockey on
Jul 2, 2008 2:14 PM CDT
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Sorry -- here's the link to that ESPN story
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroids&num=3
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT
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McGwire As Hitting Coach; Steroid Allegations
Well, he was one of the best power hitters of his era. He drew a lot of walks. However, he didn’t hit for much of an average and struck out a lot. He could be a good hitting coach for power hitters.
He is a proven andro user. That was not illegal at the time in 1998. He is not a proven user of anabolic steroids. Yes, I have extremely strong suspicions that he used anabolic steroids. That has not been proven, though.
No one should be canonized for admitting wrong doing. You shouldn’t have done the wrongs in the first place. However, McGwire would have a much better chance of making the Hall, if he would talk about the past. He could have said he used anabolic steroids and rightfully accused MLB of looking the other way.
As it stands now, McGwire will decide what cap he will wear in Cooperstown. Is it going to be a Cardinals cap, an A’s cap, a Huntsville Stars cap, or a USC cap? After all, the Hall of Fame has no say so over what caps visiting patrons wear. Visiting patron is all McGwire will ever be in Cooperstown.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on
Jul 2, 2008 11:09 AM CDT
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And that's all he ever should be
You don’t let the thieves you catch go because you can’t catch them all.
I have no doubt there are people who will enter the Hall of Fame and then be outed as steroid users. That will be a shame.
But that is not a reason to throw the doors open.
And if it means Sosa not getting in, so be it. He stopped being a Cub to me a long time ago.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 2, 2008 11:48 AM CDT
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Sosa stopped being a Cub the moment Kerry Wood and Todd Walker bashed his boombox to pieces.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on
Jul 2, 2008 12:14 PM CDT
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He wasnt a good hitter anyway..
Just a power hitter, which doesnt exactly qualify him to be a hitting instructor.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on
Jul 2, 2008 2:49 PM CDT
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OBP
He did have a consistently high OBP.
Jim Edmonds has seriously become my favorite player. WHAT'S HAPPENING????
by Cub Style on
Jul 2, 2008 3:56 PM CDT
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A Walking Instructor?
Good that be next if Billy Beane gets his way?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on
Jul 2, 2008 6:07 PM CDT
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OBP
Taking pitches is a crucial part of hitting. Look at how Ramriez has improved as a hitter as he has become more patient. You see more pitches and have a better chance at getting one right where you want it.
Jim Edmonds has seriously become my favorite player. WHAT'S HAPPENING????
by Cub Style on
Jul 2, 2008 6:37 PM CDT
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It's not tough to take pitches
When the catcher is standing up and taking the ball four feet away from you.
A lot of his OBP was intentional walks.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 2, 2008 6:44 PM CDT
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Really?
1317 Career BB and 150 career IBB. That’s not a lot.
Jim Edmonds has seriously become my favorite player. WHAT'S HAPPENING????
by Cub Style on
Jul 2, 2008 6:55 PM CDT
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Ah yes, but...
The intentional unintentional walk was administered many many times!
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 2, 2008 8:21 PM CDT
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