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Near Masterpiece: Cubs 5, Reds 1

Two plays.

One ball hit by Jeff Keppinger that Aramis Ramirez couldn't handle, and which went under his glove for a first-inning error.

And another, one bad pitch from Carlos Zambrano to Adam Dunn that was deposited into the center-field juniper bushes for a brief 1-0 Reds lead in the second.

Other than that, Carlos Zambrano was perfect last night, retiring all 20 batters he faced after the Dunn HR. So what would you have done? The Cubs had, thanks to a Ramirez HR and some other timely hitting, extended the lead to 5-1 (which would be the final, a 5-1 win over the Reds, the Cubs' third in a row), and Z was at 103 pitches. Do you leave him in to finish what would have been the first CG one-hitter of his career?

There are conflicting reports. Bruce Miles writes that Lou felt 100-105 pitches was enough:

"He wanted to go out and finish it, but it was only his second time out since being off the DL, and we were on a game plan of 100-105 pitches," Piniella said. "We let him hit (in the eighth). That appeased him a little bit."

But, even Z himself acknowledged, in Carrie Muskat's cubs.com recap, that taking him out was the wise thing to do:

"I was thinking about that," Zambrano said about going the distance. "It's been a long time since I pitched a complete game. But not in this situation. I came off the DL one start ago, and it's too soon. Hopefully, in the second half of the season, I will have a chance to throw a complete game."

It was a near-perfect weather night, too, the kind you want to bottle up and let out on some blustery January day when you think it's never, ever going to get warm again. Unlike Tuesday night, the wind had pretty much died completely not long after game time, and just a few clouds on the horizon made the sunset pink and orange over the Yard. While Z was firing blanks at the Reds -- and in his best 2003-style form, not trying to blow hitters away, but instead getting ground balls, eleven of the twenty consecutive outs being on the ground -- the Cubs were methodically putting up runs. Dunn's HR was matched in the bottom of the 2nd when Jeff Keppinger's error on Mark DeRosa's grounder allowed Geovany Soto to score.

Later, Ramirez homered to give the Cubs a 2-1 lead, and then in the seventh, the Cubs batted around and extended it to 5-1 on RBI hits from Kosuke Fukudome (double), Derrek Lee (single), and A-Ram again (double). It could have and should have been more -- Z had attempted a sacrifice bunt after Reed Johnson led off the inning with a single, and replays showed that Z was safe after Cueto double-clutched. (It wasn't even close; 1B umpire Eric Cooper must have taken his eyes off the play.)

But that last is nitpicking. This isn't: we hope Carlos Marmol isn't hurt. He got the first two outs in the 9th easily, including one on a spectacular stop by D-Lee on Paul Bako's grounder past 1B, but appeared to have been spiked. He took a few warmup tosses and stayed in the game, getting the second out (a fly ball from PH Corey Patterson, who was roundly booed), but then on a similar play to Bako's, Jay Bruce was ruled safe (that one, unlike the one on Z, appeared to be a correct call). Then Marmol fell apart, throwing a wild pitch and walking the bases loaded, forcing Lou to summon Kerry Wood to finish it off.

Which he did, running the club record at Wrigley Field to -- how many more superlatives can you find? I can't -- an absolutely stunning 35-10, the best home winning percentage in baseball in a year when many teams have played exceptionally well at home.

Finally, after his news conference welcoming him to Chicago, new Cub Rich Harden (who will start on Saturday vs. the Giants, despite the headline on Bruce Miles' article that says "No word yet on Harden's first start") came out to left field to throw a few pitches in front of Larry Rothschild and a couple of his teammates:

Welcome to Chicago, Rich!

Photo by Tim Shockley. As Tim said in his email: "We told him to take it easy and not throw so hard..." Amen. (Click on photo to open a larger version in a new browser window)

Finally, the Cubs picked up a game on both Milwaukee and St. Louis -- the Cardinals lost Mark Mulder again after 16 pitches, and the Brewers lost a pitching matchup (Ben Sheets vs. Glendon Rusch) that "on paper" was a no-brainer for them. But that's why they play the games. Today's pregame thread will be up at 11:30 am CDT.

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Great win, crazy that Sheets came out on fire with 11k’s but got no run support from the Brewers in the beginning of the game.

"Look at it this way: If you're a Cubs fan, the Greatest Day of Your Life is yet to come." ~ Cubs Forever

by IvyOnTheWall on Jul 10, 2008 7:54 AM CDT   0 recs

That is what happens...

When your team relys on the HR ball so much.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jul 10, 2008 8:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And further, note that...

... the crappy Brewers bullpen took a 4-3 game and made it an 8-3 game.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 8:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought...

CC was gonna pitch out of the bullpen too? No?

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jul 10, 2008 8:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Guess not.

And what a surprise, Ned Yost is still managing there. Badly, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 8:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this is why

I’m not worried about the Brewers.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 9:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

actually the Brewers will probably be talking Lunch Pail JOE, plus

they should be talking to SD about Hoffman seeing they gave away their AA team to the Indians.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jul 10, 2008 10:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And CC didn't pinch hit in the ninth...

...and hit a six-run homer to win the game?! Very disappointing.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 10, 2008 8:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's sweep the series

and get down to some serious winning ways against the Giants.

Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr

by bubbamike the one and only on Jul 10, 2008 8:03 AM CDT   0 recs

Doesn't really look like Rich is "taking it easy" there, does it?

If he’s throwing Saturday, that means he’ll miss Cain and Lincecum, right? I think they go Fri/Sun.

Another note: If Lilly gets the W today, that’s 3 10 game winners we will have before the all-star break, and we will again reach our high watermark of 20 games over .500. Not to put my foot in my mouth before the game starts, but that’s pretty damn good.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Jul 10, 2008 8:18 AM CDT   0 recs

I watched Harden throw in the OF last night.

He was taking it easy. Hard to tell from one still image, I acknowledge, but it was just a quick session, maybe 10 minutes.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 8:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is why...

We cannot freak out about Harden and his injury plagued past. It is out of everyones control. Enjoy what is going on with the team right now.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jul 10, 2008 8:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Word

Harden is what he is, a fantastic pitcher with an injury history. Nothing we can do about the latter part.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 10, 2008 8:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Harden

is really the icing on our proverbial cake, isn’t he? We’re a good team, best record in the NL, leading the division, etc. We’ve done that all with the same group of guys that we still have. Murton/Patterson/Gallagher contributed minimally, if at all, to our success. So even if Harden does go down, we’re still the same as before. If Harden stays healthy, then we’re even better.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 10, 2008 8:27 AM CDT to parent up   2 recs

+1

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 10, 2008 8:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Absolutely

We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez

by Emelie on Jul 10, 2008 9:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He's a fine pitcher

when he is healthy and that’s the rub. He has to stay healthy. We don’t have the best record in keeping our pitchers off the DL. But let’s hope that with Dusty ruining Harang rather than Cubs that we’ll turn it around. I’m hoping that we’ve learned from the past and encouraged by Lou’s paying attention to pitch counts.

Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr

by bubbamike the one and only on Jul 10, 2008 9:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Can we all just please forget about Dusty...

Stop blaming him for ruining pitchers. Back in the day pitchers threw way more innings than they do now, substantially more innings. It is up to a pitcher to tell his manager when he is getting tired, and not try to push it. Dusty may not be the best manager, however the thought that he ruins pitchers is a fallacy. Dusty is no longer the manager of our beloved Cubs. Let it go. Move on. We’ve got plenty to talk about without dredging up this issue again and again, dude…

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 10, 2008 10:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

back in the day?

it was five years ago, wasn’t it? :D

I’m not getting in on the Dusty hate, but it does appear that he mismanaged Prior, if nothing else.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 10:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Prior.

I am of the belief that Prior was somewhat damaged goods when we got him. This combined with how quickly he came back from both the shoulder injury when he was tossed by Giles, and the line drive off his elbow. Now we know that in Prior’s haste to return and show he was healthy, he was only hurting himself more. Major Damage in the shoulder. It’s really a sad story, but Prior could have avoided this…

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 10, 2008 10:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

interesting quote in the Trib today regarding Harden....
Scouts say
So why is Harden such a frequent visitor to the disabled list?

“He always tried to throw too hard,” a veteran scout said. “You just can’t throw every pitch as hard as you can every time. It’s not good for the arm. His stuff was always good enough he could have gotten people out without over-throwing.”

by JB 23 on Jul 10, 2008 8:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this is/was Kerry's problem.

His entire career he wanted to throw the ball not pitch. He finally found a spot where he could do that.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jul 10, 2008 9:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, you'd think that this could be fixed easily, then.

If, as that scout says, his stuff is good enough to get people out without overthrowing, maybe he can be convinced to do just that.

Sometimes a change of scenery is all a pitcher needs.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 9:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i agree -

especially when you move to a different league/division.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Jul 10, 2008 9:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah but

six DL stints in 4-5 years because of it? What, no one else noticed?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 9:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe no one else...

... was able to convince him that he didn’t need to throw that hard.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 10:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok

but why would Lou and or Larry be able to do that when no one else has?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 10:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe

after all this time on the DL he’ll be more open to the message.

We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez

by Emelie on Jul 10, 2008 10:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I hope

that’s true.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 10:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Rothschild and Piniella are no nonsense

Piniella will approach him and tell him all he has to do is contribute, not be the savior or leader, not over throw and give him 6-7 good innings every time out. Z is a great example…examples are stronger than words…..103 pitches and your done.

Soto and Blanco will also monitor the overthrow thing.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jul 10, 2008 10:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe Kerry

Can pull him aside, ask him if he likes being a starting pitcher, and let him know that throwing every pitch as hard as you can is the short road to being a relief pitcher. Maybe that reality will be enough to sink in when the opinions of coaches have not been able to get through.

by ScottT on Jul 10, 2008 11:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Have Z there too

since he has said already this year that part of his success and ability to pitch deeper into games this year is due to the fact that he consciously doesn’t throw as hard as he can because then he gets more movement on his pitches.

Those two should be able to convince Harden that it is in his best interest to not try and throw too hard.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 10, 2008 11:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I've been thinking about this, too.

If Lilly can get a win today, that means three Cubs pitchers will reach 10 victories in three consecutive games. Pretty dang cool.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

SHHHHHHHHHH!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 9:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

...and not one of them is the new Canadian who’s causing the big stir of late.

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 10, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Different Subject

Does anybody know the guy who has the season ticket 1st row behind home plate? He looks like he is 60 or so and wears a pink hat all the time. He is always yelling at the up when he thinks bad calls are made. I was just wondering.

by CubFaninStLouis on Jul 10, 2008 8:25 AM CDT   0 recs

Pink Hat Guy...

That’s his alias

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Jul 10, 2008 8:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He is a potential

future Cubs owner a/k/a Pink Hat Guy (forgot his real name though)

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 10, 2008 8:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He is

Jim Anixter.

by jdb-44 on Jul 10, 2008 8:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right.

Search this site—he’s been written about here many times before.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 8:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have been "lucky" enough

to sit next to this guy. I can assure you that he will not be purchasing the team. Even if he has $ to do so.

by gocubsgo22 on Jul 10, 2008 10:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Any chance we can get a more detailed report?

Obviously the guy screams and yells at the umpire the whole game, but is it really that bad to the people around him?

Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs

by nji232 on Jul 10, 2008 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 10, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe Pink Hat guy

is Mark Cuban’s uncle. If Mark can’t buy the team and yell at the umps, then maybe pink hat guy can do for him.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson

by tucsoncubsfan on Jul 10, 2008 11:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It didn't post the rest of my comment

and now I forgot what I said. OH, well.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson

by tucsoncubsfan on Jul 10, 2008 12:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Suffice it to say

That he knows everything about everything. And exactly what is wrong with the Cubs and exactly how to fix it

by gocubsgo22 on Jul 10, 2008 12:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good morning!

What a great game last night. Loved the defense by Lee, Ramirez & even the riot. Loved Z’s pitching last night. The time on the DL definitely made Z stronger. I have heard reports that Marmol was getting hosed on some calls. St. Louis loses, Sheets & the beer drinkers lose. 4.5 up on the Cards, 5 on the beerboys. I like it, I like it a lot.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 10, 2008 8:33 AM CDT   0 recs

Marmol

In AGAIN with a four run lead? Seriously? This is getting friggin ridiculous. Where was Wuertz, Cotts or Lieber.

Lou is not Dusty- but he is showing some pigeheadedness with Marmol that I just don’t get. I know Lou wants Marmol to get his groove back, but putting him out there every two days doesn’t make sense.

Maybe Lou should give Carlos a week off, because this is crazy to me.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 10, 2008 8:33 AM CDT   0 recs

Marmol...

Seems to pitch better the more work he gets. I think he got into his little funk after he didn’t pitch for a few days.

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Jul 10, 2008 8:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed.

So maybe he should go again today?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 8:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not unless his foot is hurting...

I don’t know if he got spiked or twisted his ankle

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Jul 10, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If he does

that’ll be five games in a row over a six day period. Maybe today would be a good day to rest Marmol, especially given his foot probably hurts a bit today.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 10, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Last night

Lou said Marmol won’t pitch today, he won’t even be in the pen.

by salparadise23 on Jul 10, 2008 8:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

probably not today

but he doesn’t need a week off, either.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree

we already saw what happened when he had time off … not good. Seems to me the only way he’ll get his groove back is by fighting his way to it, much to our consternation.

We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez

by Emelie on Jul 10, 2008 9:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

he was doing pretty well

till the foot thing.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 9:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But it seems

as though he is using Marmol too much. What benefit is there to getting Marmol back into a groove now by pitching him every day, when he’s likely to then have nothing left in the tank by September?

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 10, 2008 8:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

why do you think that's likely?

right now, his IP are on track to be close to what he did last year (including minor league time).

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Marmol has given up 9 runs in his last 11 appearances

since June 19th.

Tell me more about this theory

by IllinoisCubs on Jul 10, 2008 8:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

how shall he get better?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 9:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Tampa Bay game, right?

You mean the game immediately after his 5 day rest that everyone was clamoring for?

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 10, 2008 11:40 AM CDT to parent up   1 recs

Tampa Bay game, right?

You mean the game immediately after his 5 day rest that everyone was clamoring for?

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 10, 2008 11:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ahh Dusty.....you mean the guy who left

Cueto in the game to face D Lee in the 7th with a runner in scoring postion when he had already thrown 110 pitches?

I just had to laugh watching that one….

by JB 23 on Jul 10, 2008 8:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Same thing with Harang

the night before in the bottom of the 5th, let’s him face Soto with DLee in scoring position at 2nd, having already thrown over 100 pitches in just 4 1/3 inn. Only to take him out right after the HR….. what was the point by then? Very typical Dusty.

Go ahead, Z me.

by tony412 on Jul 10, 2008 10:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Counts

Just because you subscribe to the theory of the all importance of pitch counts doesn’t mean everyone does, or should. I admire Dusty for keeping Cueto in during the 7th. To turn into a good pitcher, a young pitcher needs to learn how to pitch through adversity in the late innings, not just to look over his shoulder to the pen every time he gets into a jam. I’m not a huge Dusty fan, but I think he’s been taken to the woodpile way too often on his handling of pitchers. And most people wouldn’t say that 110 pitches is a huge amount.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 10, 2008 11:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

There are many factors

when deciding to leave in or take out a pitcher. More than just pitch counts, I agree. It was obvious Harang didn’t have his best stuff when it takes him 100 pitches to get through 4…. matter of fact he hasn’t had his best stuff all year. So those are games when you make use of that bullpen, specially if the game is close and you still have a chance to win.

We’re talking about Dusty here, so I have to agree to disagree with you. He’s got a record that speaks for itself when it comes to this.

Go ahead, Z me.

by tony412 on Jul 10, 2008 11:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

understand, but the game was still very much in question at that point

...so your saying that Dusty was conceding the game in an effort to develop Cueto?

At what point do you draw the line?

by JB 23 on Jul 10, 2008 11:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cueto

Not sure if he was ceding the game. He may have felt that Cueto, who had been pitching great, was still his best option at that point. I would have removed him just about when Dusty did – maybe one batter earlier.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 10, 2008 11:44 AM CDT to parent up