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Reds Dig The Long Ball: Cubs 7, Reds 12

Maybe it's my fault. I did, after all, sort of predict this in the pregame thread when I said:

Let's be realistic. It's going to be warm and somewhat humid today with the wind blowing out. Lilly and Arroyo rank 5th and 6th in the NL in HR allowed. Watch for long balls on both sides this afternoon.

What I was thinking was that the teams would pretty much evenly split their home runs and the Cubs come out on top. I would never have guessed that the only Cub HR would be hit by the littlest Cub, Mike Fontenot, and the Reds would pound out seven, including possibly the longest one I've ever seen hit onto Sheffield -- by Adam Dunn in the sixth inning; it appeared to hit the Lakeview Baseball Club building just below the AC sign, a blast that, if you believe the foot-marker that was on that building briefly in the 1980's, was about 480-490 feet.

Even at that, the Cubs did try to climb back into the game, helped by some shoddy Reds defense; after the Reds took an 8-3 lead into the bottom of the 4th, the Cubs closed it to 8-5 on Fontenot's HR, and then 10-7 in the sixth when they should have scored more; Edwin Encarnacion's throw in the general vicinity of right field on an attempted force at 2B gave the Cubs runners on first and third with nobody out, and a run already in, but Ryan Theriot hit an almost identical ball to Encarnacion. He turned it into a DP; a run scored, but that was their last, best opportunity of the 12-7 loss to the Reds this afternoon, which, combined with Milwaukee's 11-1 blowout of Colorado and the Cardinals' loss to the Phillies, put the Brewers in second place, four games behind the Cubs, so the division lead shrinks by only a half-game, rather than a full game, as second place changes hands.

By the time Theriot hit into the DP, a moderate rainshower had dampened the Yard -- apparently, no one but us had prepared for rain, because I saw virtually no other umbrellas anywhere in the park and only a few ponchos; the rain and the unfavorable score sent about a third of the crowd home at that point, and by the time Neal Cotts allowed the last Reds HR of the game to Joey Votto, about half the 41,459 had departed.

These things are going to happen, even to good teams, and it's hard to sweep series; the Cubs won this one and if they can take two of three from the Giants this weekend, they'll go into the break in fine shape. But I do have a bone to pick with Lou Piniella over his use of the 13-man pitching staff today. Yes, there are plenty of relievers, especially after most of them got yesterday off. But that was an awfully quick hook of Ted Lilly -- yes, he wasn't sharp, but only 63 pitches? And Lou -- you've got a long reliever. His name is Jon Lieber. Why wasn't he the first pitcher into the game, if you are going to take your starter out in the third inning? (Not that Lieber did all that well today, either, but that's not the point.) Michael Wuertz, the forgotten man in the pen (hadn't pitched in a week, and neither had Lieber, for that matter), had nothing today -- the Reds pounded him. Maybe that's not fair -- the Reds pounded everyone the Cubs sent out there, including Chad Gaudin, who gave up a HR to the first batter he faced in blue pinstripes. After allowing a single to the next man he faced, pinch-hitter Jay Bruce, he retired the next six hitters easily.

In discussing this in the bleachers today, we reached the conclusion that Lieber or Wuertz might be the odd-man out after the All-Star break. Lieber's probably going to retire after this season anyway, Lou doesn't seem to trust him much, and he's only got (approximately) $1.5 million left on his contract. I could see him being unconditionally released. Wuertz, despite today's poor performance, does have trade value, and perhaps Jim Hendry is working on that. That makes tomorrow's start by Jason Marquis important not only for the team, but for Marquis, because he could also be on the "get rid of" list. One of those three is likely to not be a Cub when they reconvene in Houston next Friday.

Dave was also very critical of Kosuke Fukudome today; he said, "The Cubs wanted him because he supposedly had LH power, but he hasn't hit for much power." That's true, and I think most of us expected that his power would drop on coming over from Japan, as happens to many Japanese players. Fukudome has added value in other areas, including plate discipline and good defense, but the league seems to be catching up to him and he needs to make adjustments. He looked really bad today in going 0-for-5 and striking out three times; he'll go to the All-Star Game primarily because of online voting from Japan (I think all of us acknowledge that he really doesn't deserve the slot based on performance), but I suspect he could really take advantage

of some time off. With the Giants starting three righthanders this weekend and with only three true outfielders on the major league roster, don't look for much time off for either Fukudome or Jim Edmonds, and they could both use it.

Losses happen, even blowouts. The offense did enough today to win, but the bullpen failed -- eight runs allowed in 6.1 innings. Ugh. Go get 'em tomorrow.

Note from walking around the ballpark pre-game today: the Matt Murton jerseys are all on clearance. You can get one for $69.99, which in my opinion is too much. I'm guessing they'll be cut to about half that before any got sold.

Oh, and for those of you who did want, or still want, Erik Bedard -- it's a good thing he's still a Mariner. He's on the DL again. (And, just to note, that article also mentions the Mariners' release of Richie Sexson -- they are eating $6 million of his contract.)

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Fist!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 10, 2008 5:45 PM CDT   0 recs

lol

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 10, 2008 5:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh well, it's a series win. No problem.

Now, how about that Michael Wuertz? (ducks)

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 10, 2008 5:47 PM CDT   0 recs

Hey Northsider.

Didn’t get your e-mail. Still want me to get some advice on mics from my buddy for ya? Oh and look for me and Goodie1969 in section 201 on Sat. for Harden’s debut.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 10, 2008 5:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You've got mail.

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 10, 2008 6:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh well.

Thank God for Dempster and hopefully Harden because Ted Lilly isn’t a #2 starter—which he was for us last year.

Michael Wuertz hasn’t really impressed me all year. I doubt his future with the Cubs is very bright.

Chad Gaudin pitched OK—just a bad day to pitch, I guess. Hopefully Harden’s debut is better.

My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!

by Unique on Jul 10, 2008 5:52 PM CDT   0 recs

Lilly's back to his career #s

His walks are back up from last year, something I see as a bellwether for his success. One big concern I’ve had about Lilly since pre-season is that he hit a career high in innings last year and has never gone three seasons in a row for a full season. Hopefully he can get rested or something in case he’s called on for post-season starts.

by DGU on Jul 10, 2008 6:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

True.

He pitched like a potential #2 last year, but I think we all were surpised on how well he did as being a stopper for the Cubs.

When Hendry signed Lilly, I envisioned him as a #4 pitcher moreso than anything else. With the addition of Harden, we have him where he deserves.

My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!

by Unique on Jul 10, 2008 6:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep. But...

keep in mind he is now the 4th starter. Which is where he should be. So, how do our top four match up in the Division, and the NL?

Pretty darn good, eh?

by The E-Man on Jul 10, 2008 6:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, still good.

And I think Lilly still has the potential to show signs of what he did last year. I doubt that he can show it over 200 innings again. I will be glad long-term for our season if Lilly can get a minor 15-day DL break without serious injury concerns.

by DGU on Jul 10, 2008 6:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lilly's walks

2006: 4.01 per 9 innings
2007: 2.39 per 9 innings
2008: 3.12 per 9 innings (not including today)

They’re up, but not that far up. The more alarming thing is the HR allowed—19 already this year (before today), 28 all last year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 6:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lilly is a fly-ball pitcher

Which worried me when we signed him, but while it works against him when the wind is blowing out, he does okay otherwise. He’s the kind of guy who’s better than his numbers simply because he pitches well most of the time but tends to get blown out occasionally when the conditions don’t favor him (i.e. today).

Zambrano viciously attacked a pair of watercoolers for the crime of being within his line of vision. It was a classic battle of man versus inanimate object.

by berselius on Jul 10, 2008 6:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Rich Harden, fly ball pitcher

That’s what they said about him when Harden faced the Sox last.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 10, 2008 6:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You may want to note that Rich HArden

Has given up like 43 HR’s IN HIS CAREER!

His last 4 years it has been 7 and under.

Glendon Rusch gave up 21 or 23 alone, in 2006.

by The E-Man on Jul 10, 2008 6:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not breaking bad on Harden...

... just pointing out that I heard him described as a flyball pitcher. Of course, Harden is also a very good pitcher whether he’s actually a flyball, groundball or whatever type.

I don’t know if yearly and career HRs allowed are an accurate measure, ‘cos hasn’t Harden missed often due to injuries? It seems that HR/IP comparisons would be a fair measure.

by DrCrawdad on Jul 10, 2008 6:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not really

Harden has a career 1.11 ground out to fly out ratio, while Teddy has a 0.80

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 10, 2008 7:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well...

those 4 years cover only 277 innings…he’s been hurt so much.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 10, 2008 6:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In 89 career games

that’s almost one every 2 games. Not great.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 10, 2008 7:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That was my point...

you can’t point the raw number of HR’s given up in relation to TIME with Harden.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 10, 2008 7:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know

I was agreeing with you.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 10, 2008 7:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know

I was agreeing with you agreeing with me.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 10, 2008 7:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ah

agreed

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Jul 10, 2008 7:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

good

now, let’s go get some donuts.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 7:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yikes!

sorry—too big of a pic

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 10, 2008 7:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you meant....

D’oh!

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 10, 2008 7:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

Wait, people don’t like that.

A well phrased response, Northsider, as you used a catch phrase of Homer J Simpson, a cartoon character on the show, “The Simpsons”. Homer often uses the phrase, “D’oh!” to express frustration, anger or to react to a mistake of his own doing or other misfortune. It is amusing because I posted a picture of Mr. Simpson, who is also fond of donuts.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 10, 2008 8:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I concur.

Indeed, Badger of Shanghai, thou art well-versed in the technique of my commentary. Were it possible, I would award you a point. But, alas. I will post a 10-page PDF analyzing my approval of your comment later this evening.

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 10, 2008 8:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well stated, old chap.

I eagerly anticipate perusing your pithy commentary regarding our dialogue. No doubt I shall be enthralled with your repartee.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 10, 2008 8:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You love it!

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 10, 2008 11:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But I've been running on the treadmill!

Maybe I need to lay of the suds for a while…

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 11, 2008 8:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good one

I was one who said there was too much +1-ing and -1-ing. You made your point real nice there.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 11, 2008 8:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, just having a bit of fun

And it was directed not so much at you from that camp. . . that’s all I’ll say . . .

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 11, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know

no big whoop.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 11, 2008 9:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

One every 13 innings pitched. That is better than Z's

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 10, 2008 7:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I dont know who you heard this flyball/HR thing, but he was wrong.

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 10, 2008 7:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

By comparison, Lilly gives up one every 6 innings

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 10, 2008 7:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Harden is slowly morphing

into a flyball pitcher. His GB/FB has risen every year since 2005, and this season it’s over 1:2. However, he’s played most of his career in Oakland, which has no doubt depressed his HR allowed numbers. It will be interesting to see how he adjusts to Wrigley, but his career home road splits tell us he’s been about a run worse on the road, so Cub fans should temper their expectations.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 10, 2008 10:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Most fly ball pitchers...

...have something of a knack for keeping the ball in the yard, compared to ground ball pitchers. It makes sense – if fly ball pitchers game up as many home runs per fly ball as ground ball pitchers, well, they wouldn’t make the majors.

by cwyers on Jul 10, 2008 7:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

All I can think of now is THO...thanks.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 10, 2008 6:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly

I’ll take Lilly’s great pitching interspersed with occasionaly blowouts over Marquis, who seems like he’s going to lose it at any second. If Lilly has it, he has it.

Zambrano viciously attacked a pair of watercoolers for the crime of being within his line of vision. It was a classic battle of man versus inanimate object.

by berselius on Jul 10, 2008 9:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nah.

I don’t think he’s pitching like a number 2. He’s pitching like a middle of the rotation guy, which Lilly is.

My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!

by Unique on Jul 11, 2008 2:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lilly is what he's always been

a guy who’ll battle and USUALLY keep you in the game.

by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 10, 2008 11:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Er.

what is this a reference too! so confused!

by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 10, 2008 11:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

“Indie” music.

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 10, 2008 11:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fukudome's power

Let’s wait and see if he ends up hitting more doubles. If you look at Hideki Matsui’s first year in the majors, he started hot like Kosuke, got cold for about as long as Kosuke did and ended his first year with a lot less power evident in his stat line than he showed in later seasons. I noted this in the recap I did Sunday:

As of Game 83 in his ML career, Fukudome stands at .285/.391/.420 with 7 HRs. Matsui at Game 83 in his ML career had a line of .302/.365/.459 with 9 HRs.

I’d argue looking at that line that Fukudome has showed nearly as much power with more plate discipline. I’d say the jury is still out on Dome’s power and should remain out through the year.

by DGU on Jul 10, 2008 5:53 PM CDT   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing...

He’s got 7 HRs, I think he could double that and get us 15 on the year. The jury is out. It’ll be a long deliberation.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 10, 2008 5:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I hope you guys are right.

He does have 17 doubles, so he should get to at least 30. I’d like to see him closer to 40 doubles.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 5:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 6:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll look for ya.

Goodie1969 & I will be in section 201, row 10 down the left field line. You sit in the bleachers, correct? LF corner?

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 10, 2008 6:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes. Will try to stop by if I can. 201 is not very far from our seats in 301 in the LF corner.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 6:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's what I thought.

Hope you don’t slug me for baggin’ on Pauly yesterday. I had a bug up my rump.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 10, 2008 6:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No worries.

Try to keep that down, though. Just think before you post. Thanks.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 6:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes,

discretion is the better part of valor. I shall think beforehand. We’ll be the ones with the BLUE MIKE was right sign. just kidding!

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 10, 2008 6:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have no problem with the lack of power.

I have a problem with the pitch selection sometimes. He doesn’t drive the ball as often as I thought he would. He struggles an awful lot with LH pitchers—and the higher caliber pitchers absolutely dominate him. I’m hoping he makes adjustments.

Kosuke blames the slumps on the fact that he’s not used to playing so many days—which makes me believe that the Cubs have to find someone that can platoon with him. But the amount of games he plays should not make him look completely overmatched at the plate sometimes.

My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!

by Unique on Jul 10, 2008 6:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Shot in the dark

I’m not sure how much mental preparation Kosuke puts into his ABs – but if he’s learning all these new pitchers and trying to prepare for each, there could be some mental fatigue as much as anything. I’m generally pleased with Fukudome.

by DGU on Jul 10, 2008 6:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That makes sense...

... and he definitely needs some time off, which he won’t really get this week. If the Cubs had some actual outfielders on the roster, they could give him a day off this weekend.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 6:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

they could bring up

Pie.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 10, 2008 6:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They could, but probably won't.

I think they’re committed to staying with this ridiculously large pitching staff until Sunday.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 8:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't either.

Me, I still think 12 is too many. 13 is just ridiculous, especially since it means Geovany Soto doesn’t likely get a day off (which he could use).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 10, 2008 8:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

agreed, itll happen til the break

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Jul 10, 2008 8:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Al,

While you are correct that the Cubs only have 3 true OFs on the roster, Lou is currently acting as though they have four. (And I can’t say that I blame him while Fonty is hot.) Reed Johnson could certainly play CF - even against a RHP - and give Edmonds a blow, play LF while DeRo plays RF for Dome, or (drum roll) he could play RF for Dome.

I think that Lou is being stubborn. Edmonds played far too much while RJ was on the DL, and I think Dome hasn’t gotten enough off-days the entire season. And, I think it is starting to show…

While it’s great that Dome is getting the ASG honor, he really needs the rest. I hope that Lou is smart enough to give him at least one day off this weekend and another against the ‘Stros.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Jul 10, 2008 8:25 PM CDT to parent up