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Cubs Minor Leagues

Consider:

Cubs minor leaguers were considered studs 3 to 4 years ago

Currently are viewed as mediocre; and have been further depleted by call-ups in the last 2 years (Theriot, Cedeno, Soto, Fontenot, Marmol, etc.) and the Harden trade

Yet are whooping other teams in the last 6 to 8 weeks at all levels of the minors.  Dozens of homers.  Decent pitching numbers from guys not viewed as legit prospects.

Are we in more of a Rays position than people think? 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I've always thought the Cub farm system...

was good.

"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 11, 2008 9:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Won loss records

are nice, but not always indicative of the quality of prospects in the system.

For example: The only championship in Iowa Oaks/Cubs history was in 1993, when they won the American Association title. The best player on that team was Steve Trachsel, who had a nice long career (that appears to be over now.) After that, we’re talking Jose Hernandez, Tuffy Rhodes, Turk Wendell . . .

The best player on that team was Zambrano. That’s Eddie Zambrano.

Right now, the Cubs farm system is weak. Now part of that is due to good news: it produced Geovany Soto and Sean Gallagher who are no longer in the system. But until we find out more about this year’s draftees, there isn’t much in the system as far as potential impact players beyond Jose Ceda, Josh Vitters (who is a long ways away) and Jeff Samardzija (who is just plain weird).

But comparing our system to the Rays is silly. The Rays have an awesome farm system. Be aware that much of that is because the Rays stunk for so long that they got one of the first three picks in the draft for like, five years in a row.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh77 on Jul 11, 2008 10:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not really disagreeing . . .

Since I don’t really track these things closely,

But if “talent” is the judge, weren’t Pie and C. Patterson “can’t miss?” Wasn’t Z a left over after Wood and Prior? Weren’t Theriot and Fontenot scrubs? In fact, until last year, wasn’t Soto an “also ran?”

I guess my question is, does the performance of any of the players in the minors start changing the opinion of the talent?

by Gunga La Gunga on Jul 11, 2008 10:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Zambrano

was never an “also ran.” He was always a top prospect.

Theriot and Fontenot were never considered top prospects. (Actually, Fontenot was a top prospect when he was drafted in the first round back in 2001. Then he spent four seasons in AAA.) Some would argue they aren’t good major league ballplayers today.

Pie and Patterson were top prospects, but they were never “can’t miss,” which is a title that should be rarely, if ever, bestowed. But Patterson has played nine seasons in the majors and no matter how disappointing those seasons have been, a player with nine major league seasons can’t be considered a “miss” in minor league terms. That’s considered a “hit.”

And the jury is still very much out on Pie.

Sure, guys can turn it around like Soto did last year. Tell me who is doing that this year.

But the premise you start with is factually wrong. With the exception of Iowa, they haven’t been “whooping” other teams for 6-8 weeks. More like two weeks.

Tennessee finished the first half with the worst record in the Southern League. Peoria avoided last place in their division by half a game. Daytona was 35-35 in the first half.

Sure, Iowa has been doing great. But Jason Dubois is 29, Micah Hoffpauir is 28 and Andres Torres is 30. Bobby Scales is 31. Luis Figueroa is 34. Josh Kroeger is a relative pup at 25. With the exception of Kroeger, all those guys are past the age where players generally improve and into the period where age starts to take its toll. (And Kroeger is approaching it rapidly.) Andres Blanco, Casey McGehee and Felix Pie are the only I-Cub position players that can reasonably be described as “young.” (And Blanco and McGehee aren’t that young, so you’re left with Pie, whom you’ve already dismissed.) They’re winning because they’re older and more experienced than their competition. They wouldn’t have that advantage in the majors.

The pitching staff isn’t quite so old and age isn’t quite as important for pitchers, but realistically, Mike Burns is 30 and has a lifetime ERA of 5.88 in 52 major league innings. Heck, Hector Carrasco is 38 and was a teammate of Kevin Mitchell and Frank Viola once upon a time. Jim Brower is 35 and has a lifetime ERA of 4.67 in over 350 major league appearances. Are you telling me those guys have found something in Des Moines that had turned them into major prospects like Soto did last season?

I follow the Cub system every day and there isn’t anyone like Soto this season who has turned himself from an organization guy to a prospect. Maybe Blake Lalli, but I want to know more about his ability to catch before I say that. I suppose Hoffpauir may have played his way into a Ross Gload-type career.

Hey, if the Cub farm system continues to win through August, then maybe we can start talking about players turning it around. But the very premise of this fanpost is flawed right now. The Cub farm system has only been winning for about two to three weeks, not 6 to 8. Except for Iowa, and that’s mostly a bunch of career minor leaguers and veterans who aren’t ready to retire yet.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh77 on Jul 12, 2008 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

There is an exceedingly fine line between...

...being a minor-league veteran and being a fringe major leaguer. You probably can’t swing a cat in the clubhouse of most AAA parks without hitting a guy with just as much talent as, say, Willie Bloomquist.

And, when you look at the Iowa Cubs, those are the sorts of guys who are “tearing it up.” If these guys were 22 – or even 25 – they might be prospects, but they’re not. The “Team Age” at Iowa is 27.3 – 27 being roughly the prime of a ballplayer’s life. Heck, some of them have played several seasons in the majors already.

The word “prospect” comes from the Latin “to look forward” – players aren’t prospects for what they’re doing now, but what you can see them doing later. Joey Votto is a prospect, and Micah Hoffpauir isn’t, even though Hoffpauir has the better numbers at AAA. Why? Because of what you can see Votto doing two, three years down the road as he fills out and reaches his prime years. Hoffpauir is in, maybe even past, his prime as a player. And Hoffpauir cannot hit enough to be the first baseman on a team that has serious notions of contending. And, just looking at the aging curve, you have to think he never will.

by cwyers on Jul 12, 2008 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And that's why

when someone mentions that the Cubs need to find a place for Hoffpauir, I ask if they should do the same for Jason Dubois. Dubois is 29, Hoffpauir is 28. They are essentially the same player, 1B/OF minor league sluggers. Dubois may even have miore value since he supposedly can play the OF.

Yet many think Hoffpauir is a late blooming prospect and Dubois a has-been OF. Neither will have much of a major league career. Still their career will be better than many others. They have been in the majors.

by rlpete on Jul 12, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One is left-handed

And that is a factor in Hoffpauir’s favor, as well as the year in age.

I’m beginning to think Hoffpauir has a chance to be the next Ross Gload. Just a chance, though.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh77 on Jul 12, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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