Pie
by princefieldersdiet on Jul 18, 2008 10:31 AM CDT
95 comments
I really hope Felix Pie can become as good as we all think he can. We've all seen the flashes of brilliance from this guy during his short stints, and I was a believer in the idea that you give him a full season of Major League PA's, because his defense is excellent and the team is good enough offensively to give him time to adjust. However, the Cubs signed Edmonds, and he has indeed been very good, and in hindsight was a great, and dirt cheap, pickup.
After Pie had been in AAA a while, we heard reports of attitude issues, that he was unhappy with his place. It was even reported that part of the reason he was sent out of Chicago was his partying lifestyle while he was up here. He was sent to Rookie Ball in Mesa, apparently as a result of his attitude issues. However, he was back in AAA in no time, and has recently regained his hitting stroke. So, my question is this. Where do you see Felix Pie fitting in with this team next year? I'm hoping he'll be able to finally blossom into a quality Major League hitter, and become the everyday CF, but I know there are plenty of other routes that aren't quite as pleasant.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Not sure if you intended this...
But this topic, combined with your screen name, is funny.
by Canseco's Roid Party on Jul 18, 2008 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hilarious...
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jul 18, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if it is a vegan pie
Banana Soy filling with Tofu chocolate crust.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 18, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant.
It’s funnier each time I scroll up.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jul 18, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
too hard to tell
reed is on a one year contract correct? if they bring back reed i think a strict platoon wouldnt be a bad idea. otherwise, if he really finishes this year at iowa strong maybe he is just simply given the job. as nice as reed has been, his numbers are very plain and below average. i think the team would be better off just letting pie play everyday, but you never know. either way, i expect significant at bats next year.
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on Jul 18, 2008 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hopefully
i think we all expected significant AB’s this year, and it didn’t turn out that way.
Pie’s now out of options (I believe), so if we (and by we I mean Lou) don’t intend on giving him significant AB’s next season and let him work through the usual struggles of adapting to big league pitching (see Jones, Adam), then we should’ve traded him last season before crushing his value this season by yo-yo-ing him around
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's done practically everything they've asked of him
so hopefully he’ll be given a legitimate chance as the everyday CF heading into next season.
I’ve posted this before around here, but Pie’s “struggles” at the AAA level early on weren’t anything more than some horrid luck. If we simplify Pie’s skill-set to 4 statistics we can see the genuine improvement he’s made in doing exactly what the Cubs wanted: shortening his swing and making more contact. Even more importantly he’s done it without costing him any of the power that made him so intriguing.
Let’s compare Pie’s ‘07 at AAA to his ‘08 at AAA and to his minor league career:
‘07
K Rate = 17.5%
BB Rate = 8.3%
EXBH Rate = 10.0%
Singles Avg = .361
‘08
K Rate = 13.7%
BB Rate = 6.1%
EXBH Rate = 10.2%
Singles Avg = .213
Minor league career
K Rate = 21.3%
BB Rate = 8.2%
EXBH Rate = 10.0%
Singles Avg = .288
Pie’s cut down the K’s significantly, at the cost of a few BB’s (they’ve actually declined proportionally), and he hasn’t lost any power. So he’s making more contact and hitting for the same power, which is what the Cubs wanted. The only real difference in his results from ‘07 to ‘08 was the difference in his singles avg, which is largely the result of luck. The BB’s are the last thing, and we don’t need him to get them too much higher than his traditional 8% BB Rate for the overall improvements to be quite significant.
Of late Pie’s been making even more contact than before (striking out just 4 times in last 46 AB’s), so of course if he can improve the contact further that would make up for some of the lack of BB’s.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He has done everything...
...except hit major league pitching with any success. For a team trying to win a championship, that is something that becomes more important. If Pie was on the KC Royals, it may be a different story, but he isn’t.
He may get another shot next spring, or he may be traded, but my confidence in him being a productive major league hitter is low.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so how on earth do you test your thesis?
in AAA
its such an inane argument to bring up he hasnt hit major league pitching when he isnt given a chance to hit major league pitching I don’t know how you could even broach that idea.
Another shot next spring? What the hell would that prove? He hit .333/.386/.538 in 65 spring AB’s this year and that didn’t mean anything. It bought him a whopping 63 AB’s at the major league level, of which the most he got in consecutive appearances was 15 (4 games) to start the season
HOW CAN YOU PENALIZE A GUY FOR NOT HITTING MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHING WHEN HE ISN’T GETTING OPPORTUNITIES AGAINST MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHING
Its an absolutely ridiculous argument. It’s like penalizing him for not being able to wear a major league uniform at AAA
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, chill
I think what MPH is getting at is that young hitters often struggle uponst coming to the majors. In a place like Kansas City, you can let those young players develop and work through their growing pains. With a win-now team like Your 2008 Chicago Cubs, he isn’t going to get that shot, especially considering that the Cubs’ current LH center fielder is OPSing .921.
I think he has a legitimate shot to become a good MLB player. But I don’t think he’ll get that shot this year with the Cubs.
by John Q Freejazz on Jul 18, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah and that's fine
read the first sentence of my original post:
“so hopefully he’ll be given a legitimate chance as the everyday CF heading into next season.”
I’m not saying he should get a shot right now. I’m saying he should’ve gotten a legitimate shot heading into this season, which he didn’t (he got 63 AB’s). Who knows if Pie could’ve given us what Edmonds has, I’m guessing he wouldn’t be able to, but at the same time I can only guess because we have no clue since he wasn’t really given a chance. If we had we’d at least have a better idea whether he was the CF of the future or not, right now we have no clue. And since we burnt his last option this year while not getting a better idea whether he’s the future or not, we have to commit one way or the other this off-season.
I react so strongly because the concept of a guy not being able to hit ML pitching isn’t a fair assessment when he wasn’t ever given a chance to hit ML pitching. If we judged Edmonds on his first 24 AB’s (4-24) we’d have sent him down immediately too. It’s just a terribly asinine comment to say the guy hasn’t proved he can hit ML pitching. Of course he hasn’t! He hasn’t proved he can be an astronaut either! In both cases he hasn’t gotten a legitimate chance to prove so
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya
I think what DeRoMyHero says below makes sense: that Pie had reverted back to his long, loopy swing. While such a long swing might work in AAA if you’re as talented as Pie is, it probably won’t work against big-league pitchers, and it didn’t this year or last year (both in limited sample sizes).
The combination of management’s desire for a more compact swing and their desire to win a championship now led to the decision to send Pie down.
My guess is that the Cubs will let Edmonds walk after the year, and if Pie is still in the organization and has shown he can maintain his new swing, he’ll get a fair shake next year. Those are big ifs, though.
by John Q Freejazz on Jul 18, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it makes sense too
i’ve just never seen that assertion of how things went down anywhere else (and i read an awful lot on the Cubs) so I was wondering if there’s any source on that or if that’s speculation
it would make a lot of sense if that was what happened though
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really very simple...
Piniella and probably others didn’t think the guy was ready. I only watch on TV, but they see him up close and personal and I happen to agree with their path regarding Pie.
They thought they needed to try other options and they have. I think they did the right thing.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
check my post
my comments were for next year.
As far as the team goes for this season and this season only, it looks like they did make the right choice as Edmonds has been terrific. With that said Edmonds was given time and things eventually worked out, maybe the same would’ve happened with Pie, we never know. I’m guessing it wouldn’t have (not as well as Edmonds has hit certainly) but then again maybe we’d have a better idea of what we actually have heading into next season if another path was taken.
My original post was that heading into next season you’d hope he’d be given more of a chance since he’s done everything that’s been asked of him in terms of shortening his swing, etc at AAA.
You responded to that by saying he hasn’t hit ML pitching, which is idiotic since you can’t face ML pitching at AAA. Then you suggested he’d get another chance in the spring to prove himself. To which i’m asking you how could you prove yourself “more” than hitting .333/.386/.538??
Did the Cubs make the right move for this year and this year only, it certainly looks that way. But they’ve also done it at the cost of being able to evaluate their CF position for the future. At some point they need to cross that bridge otherwise you’re going to obliterate a valuable piece that we once had (whether as a trade chip or as a future CF). I was one who early in the season thought it was a great opportunity to find out what we had given the way the offense was producing and given the way we were playing.
But regardless my post clearly was discussing NEXT season and not this season
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am sure...
...the Cubs goal is not to put one players development above the goal of winning a world series. I think a lot of people are hung up because one of the top prospects didn’t get more AB’s, but it’s not about Pie, it’s about putting the best 9 on the field you can.
In the end, if Pie is good enouph to be a productive major league hitter, he will be on a major league roster somewhere in 09.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you operate like that
you’ll never be able to develop a prospect that doesn’t hit IMMEDIATELY upon entering the big leagues.
It’s not putting one players development above the goal of winning a world series, its having confidence in knowing if the player does develop you’ll have a better chance at competing year in and year out.
If every time you send back down a prospect that struggles immediately in favor of the better player right now, you’re never going to develop anyone. The best organizations in baseball give their young players time to develop
Dustin Pedroia hit .182/.308/.236 through his first 65 PA’s last season and the Red Sox NEVER challenged his job because they had confidence that when he developed it would be worth more than anything they could find outside the organization.
If the Cubs viewed Pie as a true “top” prospect, they’d take the same approach
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have said this before...
...I think this goes beyond whether a prospect is “hitting immediately” and more on what the top brain trusts thinks about how he looks, and whether he is ready.
I have it on good authority, that the Cubs brain trust is mixed at best as to whether Pie is going to be a major league hitter.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yay
for good authority
and all sorts of vague anonymous sources/forms of evidence that make the world go round!
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can say this much...
...it is a former Cubs player who I have come to know pretty well and we just had a Cubs discussion 2 weeks ago.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You used to be a BP pitcher right?
by GoCubbies34 on Jul 18, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope...
...that is someone else.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can confirm...
... that from Deep Goat and other sources, I have heard the same thing MPH73 has.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 18, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's Higgy.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 18, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's great
but it really adds absolutely nothing to the discussion since it can’t be proven and the actual source goes unnamed, so what’s the point of bringing it up?
its a complete conversation-ender and one that comes with the negative connotations associated with being a “name-dropper” (only its worse since an actual name isn’t being dropped)
what’s the point? How does an unnamed source that can’t be proven at all who represents an opinion that may or may not be consistent with the people making decisions in the organization further our conversation at all?
It doesn’t. It just draws a line in the sand and says “I know someone who is an authority and they say _“
There’s no justification of who they are how they’re an authority and whether its an opinion that’s even worth discussing.
Its pointless.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do people...
...in the press use sources? Because they are a source of information, plain and simple and they are never named.
I simply said I know someone who has verified Cubs brass is not very confident Pie is going to be a major league hitter. I also think how the Cubs have handled him (takling a chance on a guy most thought was done) verifies this is probably correct.
By the way, if I named the source (which will never happen) it would do nothing to verify Cub’s brass opinions anyway. The guy is a friend and someone who I enjoy talking baseball with.
Lastly, none of this means Pie will not be a good major league player. I am only stating what someone (with inside knowledge) has told me about what “most” of the Cub’s management feel about him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it me
or are these completely contradictory?
“By the way, if I named the source (which will never happen) it would do nothing to verify Cub’s brass opinions anyway. “
“I am only stating what someone (with inside knowledge) has told me about what "most" of the Cub’s management feel about him.”
and the difference between people in the media citing unnamed sources and someone on a message board is the people in the media are trying to make a living being accurate, while most people on a message board are simply trying to prove their own opinions
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to believe...
...I am blowing smoke to back my own opinion, you are certainly entitled to draw that conclusion.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Dartmouth is simply pointing out that by saying you have an inside source, that its an easy out to end the argument. I mean c’mon if someone can tell you that they heard it from the top brass, it pretty much closes the door. Its just a hard pill to swallow.
by StevenABQ on Jul 18, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not only an easy out
its impossible to prove one way or another, so there’s no point in discussing it any further
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand...
...but if you look at how the Cubs have handled Pie, is it surprising to hear that maybe key people within the organization are doubting his ability to be a major league quality hitter? Not getting very many AB’s was a big clue Piniella has serious doubts, and when Hendry signed Edmonds (who most thought was done), should have been another clue.
I also understand how someone can say (good for you) when I say I know someone who has the ability to find out certain Cub’s brasses opinions, but quite frankly, the same statements I have made have also been written by the Cubs beat writers from their own sources.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And as noted above...
... I have heard the same thing from my own sources.
Can all of you understand why we don’t name inside sources? Because if we do, the sources will stop telling us stuff.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 18, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i understand that part
and i’d assume you could understand where i’m coming from that the playing the “anonymous inside source” card is a conversation ender that can’t be proved or disproved so what’s the point of bringing it up
if the Cubs felt this way about Pie that should’ve moved him in the offseason when his value was at a peak. If they couldn’t commit to him in this environment early in the season with practically no competition then they should’ve “sold high” on his top prospect status. Heading into next offseason we’re now in the same boat except we can’t send him down again and we’ve essentially shown our cards to the rest of the league that we have no faith in him
If your inside sources are correct then the Cubs look to have mishandled this situation terribly because they went from having a Top 50 prospect in all of baseball that was coveted by a number of GM’s to openly showing no faith in the guy and likely having to take 70 cents on the dollar in the off-season.
If you didn’t think he could be a ML player he should’ve been dealt last year
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 19, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And on that, I agree with you.
If they really had no intention of giving him a chance to play, his trade value in spring training this year was quite high. It’s much lower now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 19, 2008 4:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing they might be doing now
is allowing him to regain that AAA stroke and perform the way he has in th epast in the minors in hopes that they can recapture a bit of that trade value that he previously had.
If he tears it up again, then perhaps teams will view him as again, a quality player who might require some work.
Currently, he and Hill are worthless…well not completely but compared to where they were a year ago…
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 19, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree as well...
...and have said such in posts going back quite a ways. Hendry has never been real good at trading guys when their value is at a peak, and there are numerous examples of this.
What happened with Pie though, is not uncommon on major league teams. As an example, the manager may not think a guy is ready and the GM may think a bit differently. Remember, a GM typically has more vested in seeing one of his prospects work out compared to the manager. In the case of Piniella, they brought him here to win now and he wants the best 9 he can get his hands on to do that. One thing I think has been a blessing for the Cubs, is Piniella’s ability to evaluate talent and what mix he needs to win. Without his evaluations after 60 games last year, that team doesn’t make the playoffs and we may still have Barrett catching. IMO, Piniella is one of the best talent evaluators in baseball and that was a quality Hendry needed help with.
It’s clear the Cub’s brass is mixed on Pie (with the arrow pointing down) and that has been in the papers going back months. Now, you do the best you can to hopefully get Pie back to where he has some value, and he may bring you something.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 19, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"For a team trying to win a championship, that is something that becomes more important. "
really?
Last year our CF position hit .254/.305/.404
Last year our C position hit .239/.304/.369
were we not trying to win a championship?
the 2007 World Champions SS position hit .231/.288/.345 last season. Were they not trying to win a championship?
Teams can win championships with a weak spot in their offense if it provides premier defensive value, which Pie does. Now obviously Edmonds has made us a better team with his performance than Pie did with his, I can’t argue that. But to suggest that 1) a team can’t afford to let that type of player take more than 60 AB’s in a season is RIDICULOUS and 2) that the player shouldn’t be given an opportunity at some point at the major league level because he hasn’t proven he can hit major league pitching is also RIDICULOUS
You can’t succeed at something you’re not given an opportunity to do. It’s a fairly clear cut concept.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again...
...the brain trust obviously thought they needed to try other options – they disagree with you.
If you don’t need to have a weak spot in the order, than why have one? Edmond’s defense is fine and their call to give him a shot has worked out better than I (and probably them) thought Pie could deliver.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 18, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1000
We’ve been hearing the reports for three years now .. tearing up the AAA, impressing the coaches, etc. And yet when gets to the majors, he flashes a lot of potential, but little substance. I was awestruck to watch him in April 07 leg out a triple when he was playing against the Braves .. fastest kid I’ve ever seen on the Cubs. And yet, Pie still hasn’t risen to his potential.
As I said in another thread, the Edmonds/Johnson platooning will not last forever .. and I think this is going to be Pie’s last chance to get it together. Let’s also realize that in a time when a push for a pennant and a shot at a WS title isn’t going to hold much tolerance and forebearance for an unsteady hand like Pie. If he comes up for the push, it will be so he can execute .. not get a batting or baserunning clinic.
We need a Johnson or a Edmonds in CF .. not a Pie still getting his bearings.
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
by cubnational on Jul 18, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we keep Edmonds?
He’ll want more money next year; deservedly so.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on Jul 18, 2008 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it.
While Ed is producing, why tie up the money he will want for the platoon player he has become.
by N Oakley on Jul 18, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Edmonds has been great so far, but I doubt he can keep up this pace for the rest of this year, let alone perform very well next year. There’s no need to pay him like that, when we have viable in house options.
by sackings108 on Jul 18, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
I’m not sure how much truth there is to the rumor that Pie was sent down due to his partying lifestyle. That has never been verified.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jul 18, 2008 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We've been taking turns doing kegstands all morning...
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 18, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
This talk about his “partying lifestyle” is venturing into the FLS for Lincecum discussion
by StevenABQ on Jul 18, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda like Liebers current "injury"
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on Jul 18, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My sister...
saw him and Alfonso Soriano out at the bar following a game she attended in St. Louis. Not saying he was partying, but him and Alfo were out having a drink after the game.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jul 18, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two grown men, out having a drink after work.
Nothing says big-time partier like that.
/end sarcasm.
In reality, this whole partying rumor was the result of an incredibly irresponsible post over at The Cub Reporter, a post AZPhil has since corrected. It’s bunk.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 18, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In response...
to both you and StevenABQ…I don’t buy the rumors either. I see nothing wrong with two players having a drink after a ballgame, and was not using it as evidence against the kid. Just throwing that out there…my sister was PSYCHED to see them both, although let them have their drink without hitting them for a pic or autograph.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Jul 18, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My best friend's sister's
boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who saw Felix pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.
by inukjim on Jul 19, 2008 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man
I thought this thread was about something completely different! Dammit…
For the record I like pecan
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 18, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Blackberry is great...
though I’ve lately been turned onto Strawberry Rhubarb and it’s quickly moving up the charts. I’d put my top three in order: Blackberry, Apple, and Strawberry Rhubarb.
by CubFan81 on Jul 18, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pecan, Coconut Creame, Blackberry
"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella
by Lou In Blue on Jul 18, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 on Strawberry Rhubarb
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 18, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grape pie is the best
Though I love ‘em all, grape pie takes the cake.
by John Q Freejazz on Jul 18, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cake? Now I'm confused.
"It’s like they have 40,000 players on one team. Forty thousand people want to be in the dugout slapping fives. ‘Passionate’ is an understatement." -- Giants LHP Alex Hinshaw on Wrigley Field
by northsider on Jul 18, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boston Cream Pie,
while not technically a pie, is the most delicious of those things called “pie.”
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 18, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rhubarb...
... bee-bop-a-loo-ba, Rhubarb Pie!
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 18, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Also, the Oreo Pie – that’s the one I usually get.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 18, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blueberry
Now we’re talking!!!!! YYUUUMMM!
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 18, 2008 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Cherry pie in my diet plans
Statistics is not going determine Pie’s fortune or no fortune on this team or any other, performance will. The judgments that will be made will be subjective in analysis (whether he has closed up the holes in his swing and batting approach) and can recognize pitches where he can be effective at the plate.
Statistics only indicate if he might be developing…my best guess is that on less he wow’s the Cub Brass like Soto he is not for this team but more like Choi or some other prospect type player who needs to go to team willing to invest time and resources to see if he is a major leaguer.
I would think Milton Bradley for Pie right now would be a good trade.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 18, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Texas would agree to that .... why?
"It’s like they have 40,000 players on one team. Forty thousand people want to be in the dugout slapping fives. ‘Passionate’ is an understatement." -- Giants LHP Alex Hinshaw on Wrigley Field
by northsider on Jul 18, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Ivy Walls hath spoken.
So shall it be written, so shall it be done.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Jul 18, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, Bradley has a 1.049 OPS at the moment.
By this logic, I say we trade Pie for ARod and install him as the right-handed pop off our bench. His OPS is only .972 so far this season, so such a trade should be highly feasible.
Git ‘er done, Jimbo!!!
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 18, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fact is, Jim passed in the offseason...
on Milton Bradley, and Texas took the necessary no-brainer one year chance. He’s going to deserve a pretty big contract next season and hopefully we’re there to pay for him.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 18, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley's a DH
he can’t stay healthy when he’s asked to play the field which is why many NL teams didn’t take a chance on Milton
handing him a big contract without the DH spot would be a pretty risky move
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A switch hitting OF is not worth the 1.050 OPS, you're right...
His defense isn’t all that bad, but I’d assume that the $5mil he’s making this year won’t even touch what he’s going to make in his next contract. If you’re right, and he can’t take on a CF role, then I guess you’re right.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 18, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just threw up
a little bit in my mouth.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 18, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I would think Milton Bradley for Pie right now would be a good trade"
...And Jon Daniels would be fired the next morning too.
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Jul 18, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do think he is in Lou's doghouse,
but I’m not sure it’s for partying. Here’s my take, based on what Ron Santo said during ST and Pie’s performance at the start of the season:
Piniella made one trip and Gerald Perry made two trips to the DR last winter to work with Pie on his swing during the DWL. They were happy with his progress.
Pie was using the same swing during the early part of ST. Apparently, he wasn’t entirely comfortable but Lou and Gerald were happy with his progress, if not the results.
During the last 7-10 days of ST, Pie scrapped the new swing and went back to his old way. Lou was not a happy camper.
Pie got off to a slow start with his old swing, and looked bad doing it. Lou basically blew his cork and started using RJ against RHP. That’s also when he started badgering Hendry to find a LHB CF. Pie’s fate was sealed, and his place in Lou’s doghouse (the Hotel California) was secure.
I’m not sure whether Lou will give him any ABs in Sept. - he probably won’t if the race is tight - and I’m not sure if Pie will get another chance next year.
It’s hard to blame Pie for being upset at being sent down before having a 150 AB trial and bringing a bad attitude to Iowa, but it’s also hard to blame Lou—he gave up some of his precious off-season to personally tutor him, and Pie basically blew him off. Is this a marriage in trouble?
P.S. The detour to Mesa was due to a hand injury. It’s easier to treat injured minor leaguers in Mesa than it is for the minor league trainer to do it while taking care of the rest of the team.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jul 18, 2008 12:27 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
and that spells trade,
This is a team built to win now and next year….period.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 18, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing that might help Pie next year
is if Riot has a strong second half. As cwyers pointed out early in the season, Pie was likely to die for Theriot’s sins. (i.e., the Cubs could afford to carry one weak bat, but not two.) Theriot got off to a slow start (1-10?) in the leadoff spot, the Cubs lost their first two games, and Lou pushed the panic button. If Riot can hit .300 (OK, an empty .300, but still .300) it wouldn’t seem so bad to carry a young CF through growing pains. If Riot “regresses to the mean” during the second half, Lou will probably feel that he has to choose between the two. I think we all know which one he’d choose.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jul 18, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wouldn't it make sense to keep him around for one more year?
What’s the point in selling low on him?
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
by IowaCubs- on Jul 18, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would have to make the team next year,
because he will be out of options. Thus, if you trade him this winter, you will at least get a warm body for him. If you pencil him in as the CF (at least against RHP), you will have the same problem next year as you did this year, but you won’t be able to send him down if you sign a replacement (a la Edmonds).
Also, if Edmonds has a good second half, you will have to commit to him (and not have a place for Pie) or forget him and let someone else sign him.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jul 18, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is the first
i’ve seen any indication Pie had followed the approach early on in ST and then scrapped it halfway through, which Lou blew up at. It would certainly make more sense given the way the entire situation has been handled (poorly to say the least)
do you have any links or articles that talked about this or are you speculating??? I didn’t watch enough ST games to see any swing adjustments myself Pie made one way or the other
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure exactly which game,
but it was toward the end. I was listening to WGN via Gameday Audio. I could try to figure out which games WGN carried toward the end of ST in which Pie played when I have time, but I’ve got ten people coming over tonight.
I remember it well because Pie seemed to be having a good spring, and Ron sounded like he was very surprised to look down and see Pie in his old stance. Obviously, I’m basing this on Ron’s observations, since I didn’t see any ST games on TV, but Ron does know a thing or two about hitting
.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Jul 18, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Precious offseason?
Its part of his damn job, if he doesnt like taking time out to personally instruct the teams top prospect, perhaps he should find a different line of work. Id hate to think the teams best prospect wont be given a shot b/c of the Manager, whos going into the last of a three year deal, doesnt have patience for him.
This seems to be the pattern with the Cubs positional prospects. At least they were able to spin Patterson/Gallagher into Harden, but there were even rumbles of moving Gallagher to the pen-thus denying him an opportunity to further prove himself.
Having an old school manager and a team in a win now mode isnt conducive to developing talent, so Felix is in a tight spot for sure, id just hate to see his talent wasted, when as its been said the team could carry his shortcomings given the strength of the lineup.
If he doesnt feel comfortable with their suggested approach, it was bound to fail anyway, batting stances are a personal issue with many hitters.
Unfortunately, I dont see this changing, and b/c of their impatience, his trade value has severly diminished and I doubt he’ll be spending much time in wrigley.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jul 18, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends how we do
I am guessing Pie will get a much better shot in CF if we manage “certain” post-season goals.
If we don’t, I think the Cubs will try to find a veteran who can be a stable, decent-hitting center fielder.
by Dave in the basement on Jul 18, 2008 12:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Reed?
He’s only 31. What do the Cubs do with him then? And what do they do with Edmonds if they end up keeping him?
"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 18, 2008 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking a big "what if..."
but, what if the Cubs win the WS this year? They would want to repeat, as all teams do, but the odds are they probably won’t. And maybe they feel that way, internally, so why not give the CF job to Pie next spring and let him take his lumps and get better? That is, if they have the confidence that Pie is their man and will get better.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Jul 18, 2008 2:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Flashes of brilliance"?
Really? When? I’ve only seen flashes of bust.
I'm hunting down the next douchebag to respond to a post with +1.
by High_Tight_Fastball on Jul 18, 2008 2:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he did post
a .781 OPS through his first 80 ML AB’s
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 18, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO, Felix Pie will be playing for another organization in 2009
I’ve said this for a long time…I don’t like the chances of Felix Pie to ever hit major league pitching. I am of the belief that the Cubs are coming to the same conclusion.
I would think both Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson will be in the mix in 2009. Hendry probably also acquires another quality option that can compete for playing time in CF. Beyond that it is probably a wait and see on Tyler Colvin.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on Jul 18, 2008 10:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it's so wonderful
to be able to foretell a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Pie struggles
Therefore he cannot hit MLB pitching.
Therefore he gets sent down
Where he faces minor-league pitching
But he cannot be brought up
Because he cannot hit MLB pitching.
Pie has been treated terribly by the Cubs organization. He deserves a lot better than this. He could have been our center-fielder for years to come.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 19, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well in all fairness
it does appear that there is a possibility that Pie will not be what we all hoped he would. I agree he has not had much time to progress. If I am being totally honest, I hope he gets that chance but at this point, if he can bring us any piece of the 2008 World Champion puzzle, I am all for him going away.
It is unfortunate that he has been tossed here and there and that it seems to have damaged his head a bit.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 19, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pie
might as well trade felix as the cubs wont give him the playing time to get better.i,d like reed to stay around but i,m sure jimmy ballgame is a 1 yr deal.wont get much for felix now,im sure his value has gone down
by NOMAR on Jul 19, 2008 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this year
.267/.317/.455 so far this year in AAA (202 ABs). That’s about a 100 point drop in all three from last year in similar ABs. That worry anybody else?
link
You can love me or hate me
I swear it wont make me or break me
Im goin whereva da money take me
Until they funeral and wake me
-Lil' Wayne Love me or Hate me
by shake n bake on Jul 19, 2008 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No, because he changed his approach, struggled during the adjustment period, and now he's greatly improving on those initially poor numbers.
"It’s like they have 40,000 players on one team. Forty thousand people want to be in the dugout slapping fives. ‘Passionate’ is an understatement." -- Giants LHP Alex Hinshaw on Wrigley Field
by northsider on Jul 19, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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