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Better to get a bad streak out of the way now

Offense is sputtering.   It was bound to happen.   A lot of Cub hitters started out the year like a ball of fire.   Things have a way of evening themselves out.   The biggest concern right now has got to be Kosuke.   He looks like garbage at the plate the past several weeks.   Enough with the lazy flies to left and center already.   And where would this offense be without the continued excellence of Ryan Theriot?  

Oh well.    Bad patches happen for all offenses.   Lets just get this out of our system right now.   Milwaukee and St. Louis breathing down our necks is actually a good thing.   I'd rather have this team have to fight tooth and nail to make the playoffs then to get their via a cakewalk.   It will make us a better team come playoff time.  

Perhaps we see the value of Rich Harden in a couple days.   He's a shutdown pitcher, and with the offense sputtering he can be our slump buster.  

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Time to give Theriot tons of credit as he continues to prove his doubters (myself included) wrong.

Also time for Soriano haters to acknowledge that he is extremely important to this offense. Having a healthy Soriano at the top of the lineup gives us someone who is capable of driving in the 7-8-9 hitters when they get on base.

Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs

by nji232 on Jul 19, 2008 10:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not a Soriano fan, but that said Cubs need to get him back

I just hope it doesn’t take him 2 weeks to get going once he returns next Thursday. Last thing this offense needs is Soriano hacking away at every pitch. If I had to construct next weeks lineup???

1. Soriano – LF
2. Theriot – SS (he needs to be at the top somehow)
3. Lee – 1st (if it were up to me he’d bat 5th, but that definitely won’t happen)
4. Ramirez – 3rd
5. Edmonds – CF
6. Soto – Cat
7. DeRosa – 2nd
8. Kosuke – RF (yeah, I think he should be the one that falls to # 8)

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 19, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually agree.

With the possible exeception of switching Edmonds and Soto depending on the pitcher. Hopefully Kosuke can become more patient and hit line drives again, then take over the #2 spot so Theriot can set up Soriano while batting 8th.

by bikemonkey on Jul 19, 2008 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou isn't gonna do that

I doubt it.

"Check the magic of a winning season and there are always reasons beyond the talent." Ned Colleti

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 20, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wouldn't be opposed

to seeing Lou try the pitcher at the #8 spot if Theriot were to go #9. I like Theriot at #2 but if Soriano can hit a HR outta the park with Theriot on base that’s an extra RBI he wouldn’t get if the pitcher were batting.

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Based on all the hate you've slung Soriano's way...

...this post can be read no other way than complete and utter hypocrisy.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 20, 2008 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...

And where would this offense be without the continued excellence of Ryan Theriot?

Yep. You can never have too many guys who make a consistent habit of getting thrown out at third base.

BlueMike = baseball ignorance.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 19, 2008 11:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The board shitbird chimes in on que

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 19, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theriot

runs worse than Cedeno.

Even a college player should be able to see that.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 19, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh, and it's

cue.

As in cue stick.

As in one of these days, you’re going to get smacked up-side the head with.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 19, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You could have made the same point without the profanity.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 20, 2008 4:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, you agree with the "point"

Blue Mike made here? Sorry I’m not one of the sheep Al, but Theriot’s just not that good and his baserunning blunder last night was devastating to the Cubs. It was unnecessary and dumb, and worst of all, it wasn’t the first, the second or even the third time he’s done it this year. If Cedeno had done that, you’d have roasted him in the recap. You didn’t even mention Theriot’s basepath asshattery. A plays awful defense, is a poor baserunner, hits for no power, and I’m the shitbird for criticizing him. Wonderful place.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed, 100%

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Difference between Theriot/Cedeno

Cedeno’s blunder would have been in the 9th inning when we were down by 1 run and had 2 outs.

Theriot’s bad base running last night has no excuse but in reality nobody on the team really helped us score any additional runs anyways…

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

which makes is all the more important

that he NOT screw up on the basepaths. We had few chances as it was.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did I say that I agreed with it?

No, I just told him to make his point without profanity, whether I agree or not.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 20, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See below for my reply.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And YOU could have made your point...

... without using the term “asshattery”. Why do people think they have to be profane to make a point?

Again, I ask, as I did below: where does it say in that one sentence that I agreed with Blue Mike’s point?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 20, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay.

If Cedeno had made the same mistake as Theriot, you’d have roasted him. Yet, you made no mention of Theriot’s egregious and costly baserunning blunder.

Second, you didn’t say you agreed, but, you didn’t exaclt disagree, either, so I put a question to you, Al:

Do you agree with Blue Mike, in regards to my “shitbird” status?

A simple yes or no answer will suffice.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Al's defense

I don’t think he put over Theriot having another multi-hit game yesterday. So call it a wash. He didn’t roast or put him over. Seriously Al has done his fair share of agreeing with many of you about Theriot not being the greatest SS ever. However the guys in top 5 for BA in National League. He’s doing something very right and he’s helping the team win more than they lose.

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This has nothing to do with the content of his post.

I told him not to use profanity. It’s that simple. You’re making a big deal out of nothing. I’d suggest you drop this right now.

It has NOTHING to do with Cedeno or Theriot or ANY performance on the field. I was telling a poster not to use profanity. Period.

Not sure why you have trouble understanding this.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 21, 2008 4:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have trouble understanding anything you've said.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then why did you make a big deal...

... about a comment that wasn’t even directed at you?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 21, 2008 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al, you just asked me to drop it.

And now you want to revive it? Is it that important to you? It’s not to me. I’m going with your previous request.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coming from the likes of you,

I’ll take that as a compliment.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Seriously now, who uses the term “shitbird.” It sounds like something a seven-year-old who’s just trying his hand at using swear words would say. What a joke.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 20, 2008 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Theriot

May be the single most debated person on this site…

Positives: Pretty good OBP, cheap, good speed, doesn’t strike out a whole lot

Negatives: Negligible power, that decent OBP is negated by his caught stealings and other baserunning blunders, AT BEST an average defender who looks better because he has a Gold Glove first baseman,

He’s not useless, but he probably should be hitting high in the order. Far and away his best skill is getting on base, and that’s more useful the higher up you are in the order. His defense is going to hurt the team regardless of where you play him, so you might as well play to his strenghts.

If that matters to you. Personally, I don’t care how a guy records his outs (Juan Pierre never strikes out, and we know how that story ends).

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermatrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Jul 19, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Strange

There’s supposed to be an asterisk after the “doesn’t strike out a lot” and another one before the “If that matters to you” but it didn’t show up. I’ll e-mail the bug report people…

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermatrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Jul 19, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Caught Stealing

Stats can be deceptive. On replays 4 of the 9 caught steals were umpire errors. Like they were so bad that the opposing teams (the feed I got the game from) even said he should be safe. So I don’t know exactly how many SB he has but say it’s 15 for 24? If he had 19 for 24 it probably would look much better.

But to be fair, I’m sure he was called safe on a few wrong calls as well perhaps?

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So now it's the umpires fault Theriot's a bad baserunner?

Honestly, the sophistries will never cease.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's saying

that the umps have made several bad calls that should have left Riot safe.

But I’ve found that the umps make bad calls on a very balanced basis, and for every bad out call of a Riot CS, there’s been a bad safe call too, so that’s a wash.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

Agreed. As far as the stats go, they most likely even out by the time it’s all said and done.

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermatrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Jul 20, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about you read what I fully write for once?

Theriot was called out 4 times on bad calls. Bad enough that I remember the broadcasters from away games admitting that their team got a break. However I also said I’m sure he got called safe on some bad calls as well.

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...

Why can’t you give the guy any credit? I know it sucks to be wrong, but he’s a Cub, and you are supposedly a Cub fan. He’s hitting 50 points higher , and his OBP is 20 points higher than the great Fukudome. I’ve never really been a Cedeno fan, but if he were playing as well as Theriot, I wouldn’t be upset, as you seem to be with Theriot’s success.

"My bed is pulling me, gravity, daysleeper. Daaaysleeper."

by markleonette on Jul 20, 2008 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fine.

He hits a lot of singles. I guess that’s good. Here’s what he doesn’t do:

-Run the bases well.
-Hit for any sort of power.
-Drive in runs
-Play at least league average defense

I’m not upset at Theriot’s success. I’m upset that in spite of his many failings, the sycophants on this board can’t stop falling over themselves in praise of him.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You've got to be kidding me.

He doesn’t hit for power or drive in runs. Of course he doesn’t! He’s hitting at the top of the order for a reason.
Saying Theriot doesn’t hit for power and drive in runs is like hacking Aramis for not laying down a bunt or stealing a base. Get real. No matter what Blue Mike runs, you have to jump on him. Hate him all you want, but he’s right more than most people around here!

Demp and Rich: proof that people that live in igloos and say "eh" can contibute!

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 20, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you honestly think BlueMike is...

... “right more than most people around here,” it’s only because he states (and restates) the obvious so repeatedly that, to anyone not really paying attention, he appears enlightening.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 20, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Take away all the things Theriot does poorly, and he's great.

Wow. That’s a flawless line of argument. Really solid.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry

you must be thinking of the Bizarro BCB.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Falling all over themselves with praise?

Give me a break. The Riot bashers are way more vocal in their hate for him than the Pro-Riot people are in their praise. You guys instigate discussions at a drop of the hat. Look at any game thread. People praise Riot for a good game, like today, like they would any other player, and a couple Riot haters chime in with their tired, boring anti-Riot comments. Why? It’s a really ineffective way to change people’s minds, but, at this point, that really isn’t the anti-Riot people’s agenda, is it?

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 20, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pro Theriot on here no point

Because no matter how many facts we give, the bashers will never give credit or bother to listen to our side. It’s a one sided battle so what’s the point. The population of BCB is a mere % of all Cubs fans. While a lot of people on here might be “smarter” fans there’s just no point arguing with them.

All that can be guaranteed is that someone every week will post a diary that sounds interesting by the title but will end up being some way to bash Theriot. It’s old, boring, and there’s just no point to rebuttle to some of these people on here. It’s not a fun debate when the people you’re debating against don’t bother to even listen to your points yet the people who are Theriot fans will always read what they have to say.

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theriot had an awesome game today.

Wandy Rodriguez had one yesterday.

I’ll never make the mistake of calling either one a good player.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your hatred is bordering on scary

I can just see you and cwyers sitting at home every night pushing pins in Ryan Theriot dolls. Thankfully real baseball people are in charge of the Cubs, and as long as he’s playing as well as he is now, he’ll stay in the lineup.

"My bed is pulling me, gravity, daysleeper. Daaaysleeper."

by markleonette on Jul 20, 2008 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know nothing about myself or cwyers.

I don’t hate Ryan Theriot; I just don’t think he’s a very good baseball player. He’s 1 millon time sbetter than me, sure, and the people running the Cubs are much more informed and capable at baseball things than myself, sure. But I’m allowed to have an opinion, and that opinion is that Ryan Theriot is not a very good baseball player. And I have reasons for my opinion, not milquetoast psychoanalysis and flimsy ad hominem attacks.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I just don't see why this is so upsetting to you

It’s like you’re obsessed with proving that Theriot is terrible. As someone else stated earlier, this is NOT the way to make people agree with your point of view. Maybe if you backed off a little, the so-called “pro-Theriot” people wouldn’t defend him so much. Obviously you can have an opinion. The problem is when you make people who don’t agree with you feel like idiots for having a differing opinion. You’re the smartest baseball person alive and we’re all just stupid backwoods hillbillies.

"My bed is pulling me, gravity, daysleeper. Daaaysleeper."

by markleonette on Jul 20, 2008 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I readily acknowledge my ignorance.

But it’s really hard to lend credence to the opinions of persons who resort to these sorts of denouements:

You’re the smartest baseball person alive and we’re all just stupid backwoods hillbillies.

I’ve never insinuated such a thing. Ever. Anywhere. But am vocal of my opinions and if that makes me an arrogant jerk (look Al, no swearing!), then so be it. I’ll wear it.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You wear it well

n/t

"My bed is pulling me, gravity, daysleeper. Daaaysleeper."

by markleonette on Jul 20, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My wife seems to think so.

She beat you to this remark years ago.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yours too

eh?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

We wouldn’t have to defend Theriot if there wasn’t a repititious post made every week saying how much people hate him.

The difference between pro Theriot and Theriot bashers are that the pro Theriot fans on here actually bother to read what the bashers write. The bashers just rip what we say and don’t bother to give us a real debate…

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read what's written and respond

accordingly, and in kind. I fail to see where I’ve refused to rise up for a “real debate.” Even in this thread, oddly enough. Yet, You have no facts, no stats, no reasons in your post. Just some broad over generalization of some nebulous group of people, the “Theriot Bashers.”

Theriot’s got a solid BA, and by extension, a very solid OBP. I readily grant that and acknowledge it’s positive effects on this Cub team. However, in nearly every other measurable area, he is below average. Now the usual response is something akin to “that’s just it, all the other good stuff he does is intangible. His positive effects can’t be measured.” And that’s when the debate is over, because you can’t argue intangibles. There’s no evidence of them. If there’s no thing to argue about, then there’s nothing to argue about. And then the debate dissolves into petty generalizing about the “pro-Riot” crowd and the “anti-Riot” crowd, which is exactly what happened here.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I may interject here...

I can see the point everyone is making, but I think the problem isn’t that Ryan Theriot is a flawed player (I don’t subscribe myself to the pro or anti camps others do here; he’s got some good attributes and some bad attributes, like the vast majority of players who have ever and will ever play this game).

Base on what I’ve been reading here, and talking to people in the “real” world, the anit-Theriot people are more upset with the treatment Theriot gets, as opposed to his actual baseball skills.

It seems that people are more likely to ignore his mistakes because he’s precieved as “grindy” “scrappy” a “hustler” or whatever else you want to call him. Listen to Bob Brenly (sp?) call a Theriot play and you can hear the affection pouring through your TV speakers. Some people are attracted to a baseball player who, for lack of a better phrase, “plays the game the right way.”

Perhaps then it isn’t so much the player himself, but the way he’s percieved by media types. Call it the David Eckstein/Darrin Erstad Effect…

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermatrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Jul 20, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually I've never had a problem with you specifically

But there are people on here who aren’t as pleasant to talk with about this debate. those people don’t make it fun to come on the board and give your opinions because they act so big-headed that no matter what I write it doesn’t seem to matter.

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually what you claim...

is not always true. yes many Theriot lovers say the intangibles are are important and I agree however my pro Theriot posts are solely based on his OBP, partially his BA, and that these are the important stats that you and yours overlook when saying “everything else he does is below average”. There is no perfectly rounded player who does it all free of mistakes. No one. So yes he has his shortcomings for sure. What he exceeds in however is, IMO, far more important that you and yours keep re-iterating.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy incoherence.

I’ll put it simply. If you look solely at Theriot’s stats, taken as a whole, they tell you some things. Principally, they tell you that over the long run, Theriot’s inept baserunning and bad defense cost the team mroe runs that he can produce. That’s not a good thing. Every player has shortcomings, but good baseball players outproduce their shortcomings and mistakes. Right now, Ryan Theriot isn’t doing that, even at the solid level at which he’s producing now.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah

incoherence=disagree with Gary?

Thanks for the lesson.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please respond to my post.

I took the time to type it.

Once again, in small words:
Theriot cannot outproduce his mistakes.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reply

your numbers say they do not outweigh the bad. Okay. I say, 13 game hit streak, 3 hits a game (and several doubles to boot), and high OBP/BA is important to this team and that makes him not as bad as you say he is.

I say agin, your numbers and stats anre not all there is to measure a player.

Please note, no mention of hustle and grit.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what is there mention OF?

sigh. If numbers and stats are not all there is to measure a player, what else IS there?

Might those things be… hustle and grit?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No but

the numbers that get glossed opver because some say those aren’t the important ones, are the ones that I ALSO use to measure a player. If I hear that BA and OBP are not resonable means to judge a player on again I am going to lose it.

people say stats, stats, stats, and then say we…not those stats. Talk about cherrypicking. I at least admit that he has shortcomings in the field and on the basepaths.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

prepare to lose it.

BA and OBP are not reasonable means -by themselves - to judge a player on.

1) They don’t measure ANY defensive attributes
2) They don’t measure power
3) They don’t measure baserunning

Admitting he has shortcomings is like admitting that the Titanic sank faster than the average boat.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The admitting part has never been my main point

it has always been that his offense has value…more so than most want to admit.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you wouldn't have to defend Theriot

if you actually looked at his performance as a player, rather than a single, not very important statistic.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What stat is that?

Just asking…

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermatrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Jul 20, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Batting average

yes. He hits a seemingly inexhaustible number of singles into right field.

And then he runs the bases terribly. What could have happened had he not been out at third yesterday?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Batting average?

Who gives a damn about batting average?

Next you’ll tell me people still think Jimmy Rollins should have been last year’s MVP because he had the most at-bats ever in a season…

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermatrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Jul 20, 2008 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it is

his most cited stat. “You can’t bench a guy who is hitting that well.”

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take your word for it

Thanks for the clarification

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermatrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Jul 20, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coulda would shoulda

Z was the only one with a bomb yesterday. The team wasn’t helping him so that play which was bad for Theriot really didn’t seem to matter much in the long run of the game.

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he could have been in scoring position

I know, you can never tell, and the way the team was hitting, it probably would have come to nothing… but.

Isn’t there a rule about never making an out at third?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

I definitely think he made a poor decision running. I’m just saying I don’t think that mistake was a deciding factor for the loss.

by ak123 on Jul 20, 2008 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OBP is an important stat though Drew.

That is what I like from him.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course it is

but to see if a player is a complete player, you have to put that OBP in context. And the context continues to be that Riot cannot outproduce his mistakes.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please take this comment in context.

If you are going to make that statement (that he cannot outproduce his mistakes), please back it up with statistics.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 21, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I trust

Cwyers.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cmon Drew...

you HAVE to do better than that. Otherwise your argument has absolutely no merit. It makes you the guy behingd the guy popping his head up and saying “Yeah! What he said!”

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, that's PRECISELY what merit

my argument has.

I have read CWyers. I have read Gary Varsho. I agree with them.

I, in fact, do not have to do better than that—especially to someone who admits to only wanting to stir up debate.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa

I said sometimes I am guilty of that but I very much have invested my time and thought into this debate so it ought not be discounted and here is why…

I have been accused of basing my statements on opinions alone and therefore my statements get discounted. Why does your “listening to Gary and Cwyers” make your statements anything more than mine? It doesn’t in case you were wondering. It makes them your opinion based on someone elses work. Kind of a coattails job if you ask me but as you said below, and I agree with, we are all entitled to our opinions.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I use my eyes too

but I have come to trust Cwyers and Gary.

Ain’t nothing wrong with coattails.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not if the event is formal...

I don’t believe they use their eyes much though and if you want an “entire” view of this, probably best to take the eclectic approach rather than just subscribe to the extremist view.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And acually

my claim is NOT by any means that he is a perfectlly well rounded player. My point is that he has value and some people, after adding up the stats, present him as if he has zero worth to this team. I disagree, that’s all. I do find it dunny though that baseball execs, and managament seem to feel he is not such a liability that they are looking to replace him. I just think this is funny. I guess they are looking att he same numbers I am. Oh, and also don’t know anything about baseball either because sometimes, and I do not mean you Drew, people talk to us supporters of Theriot as if we have no business watching or commenting on baseball.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

everybody gets an opinion. :D

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're visualizing

a little much. No one here hates Riot. Some of us just recognize that he’s not exactly a five tool player.

Or even a two tool player.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Posting in defense of Theriot really proves the point your making here.

But logic really isn’t on the Pro-Riot’s people’s agenda, is it?

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 20, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice try...

...you might try reading my post again. It’s more about the two factions of this never ending debate, than it is about a “defense of Theriot”.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 21, 2008 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure you understand the tenor of your own post.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a first time for everything

I actually agree with Blue Mike on this one. Theriot, offensively, has done quite well in Soriano’s absense. Defensively he may still be offensive, but offensively he’s outstanding.

"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"

by cubs0505 on Jul 20, 2008 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose his game yesterday was shitty too?

Where will you be if Theriot finishes this year where he is at now? Tied for most multi hit games can hardly be seen as an empty stat. Even if the lot of them are singles. He may make mistakes in the field and on the bases but nowhere do any of you bashers give the guy credit for actually getting on base. Nowhere. That is what I find funny. We all acknowledge his mistakes that you guys harp on, why so opposed to giving credit where it is due?

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 21, 2008 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny you should say that.

I’ve said exactly that in three separate posts on this thread.

Who’s not reading posts now?

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The amount of crap you run out there...

it aint easy to keep up with you. I do have a job. I just noticed what many other did here. no matter what happens, you will always harp on his negatives and give very little to no credit for the positive. Great you said so in THID thread. Congrats! he has lead this league in multi hit games most of this season. Where were you before then?

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can check my post history.

The search function is very easy to use.

I’ve been very forthcoming with praise of Theriot when it’s been deserved. I’ve also offered pointed criticisms where those are due. A cursory amount of research could’ve told you that.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No thanks...

it is officially a waste of time just interacting with you, let alone researching the ignorant comments you have thrown our way inthe past. Thanks though!

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then why do keep wasting your time?

Leave me the hell alone.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ohhhh

I’m sorry Gary. I din’t mean to hurt your feelings. You are just so damn easy to talk to man.

As for leavingyou the hell alone, why not leave those in support of Theriot “the hell alone”?

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gladly.

But I don’t think you’re on either side. I think you like to provoke people. I think you’re the kind of person that enjoys pushing people. I think you like getting under people’s skin, no matter what the topic of debate.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kinda like you do to BlueMike right?

I actually agree with BluMike when I think he is correct. That is what differentiates you from me. Provoking is easy with such strong ly opinionated people. Trust me I know as I am too.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what,

all two times?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 times?????

Every post from this guy gets the “team” of BM haters (and mind you sometimes I am on this team as well when I do not agree w his statements) piles on like, shall I say, the “undergraduate pile on”....as Gary so eloquently puts it?

I think a lot of what he says is wrong or narrow to say the least but occasionally he can be right and I do not let my bias get in the way of agreeing or at least giving credit where it is due.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They did credit him

Remember a month ago someone on here was upset he got on base so much because DLee hit so many double plays. Someone stated “If Theriot ran the bases better then Derrek wouldn’t hit into so many double plays”. I laughed when I read that.

by ak123 on Jul 21, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say that.

I said that if Riot could hit for any power whatsoever, he might actually get a double here and there, and wouldn’t be in a position to be doubled up.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean the double he smacked in Houston the other day?

I know though, hindsight is 20/20 but he did actually smack a solid double the other day and has hot several balls very hard as of late. I have to be honest though Drew, are we really saying that the singles are not preferable bc the next batter can hit into a DP? I guess we would rather he SO? Why not jump on our 3 4 5 hitters then for actually hitting into the DP? I realize what you are saying but please try to see why I have such a problem with it….we are complaining that his hits don’t just place him in SP. If this team is as good as they have looked this season, that single will be moved to third on a hit and run or on another base knock or maybe even his speed will allow that run to score when DLee smacks a double.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The earth might stop rotating on its axis.

Cubs in a tailspin and Blue Mike almost being positive

Not to mention I actually agree on a handful of things he says

"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 19, 2008 11:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This constant Theriot bahsing here makes me sick

The dude essentially has as many hits as DLee has and he gets torn a new one every day on this site. We know he lacks power, and a shortstop’s arm. But all he does is hit, I don’t give a fuck if they’re all singles. He’s doing his job. Just think about all the times Lee has hit into a DP w/him on. Is that his fault as well?

I’m so glad “we could afford to lose Soriano”... How’s that working out for us?

Ryan Theriot ba: .325 obp: .398 – people who enjoy stats just don’t like Theriot’s.

by TheRamZamDLEE on Jul 20, 2008 2:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

it it Theriot's

job to run the bases like a geriatric? Is it his job to have a range so small, we hear the phrase “pastadivingTheriot” two or three times a game?

I’m sure he’s spunky and scrappy. But he hurts this team at least as much as he helps.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you on this one, Drew

I’m not passionate one way or the other about Theriot but all our “O” boys - Cedeno, Soriano, Theriot - have flip sides that make me pull my hair out.

What doesn't destroy you makes you stranger -- The Joker

by Emelie on Jul 20, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh.

O boys. that’s good. :D

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 20, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

has a nice ring to it...

Heyyyyyy-o!!!

ba da bum!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jul 20, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you seriously suggesting that two or three times EACH GAME, Theriot misses a ground ball that a league average shortstop would have fielded?

Also, seriously guys: do any of Theriot’s defenders ever use the word “scrappy” to describe him? And if not, why does every friggin’ post by a Theriot basher use the word? Is it like a code word to get into your Theriot-bashing meetings?

by HereComesASpecialBoy on Jul 20, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...

Yes. Theriot supporters do use intangible terms like “scrappy” and “hustle” and “tries real hard.” Flip back about 4 days for the diary that uses every one of those terms plus a few.

No, he doesn’t blow 2-3 balls a game…but his limited range and lackluster arm do cost a handful of plays each week. Thus, he costs this team games. I’ll leave it to some saber dude who has range stats, win shares, etc., but he is VERY limited defensively.

Look, if he hits .329 the rest of the year, then trot him out there everyday and we’ll put up with it. But, looking at career stats (as well as his age), common sense would tend to indicate that he’ll fall off. I don’t want him to. I don’t think any Theriot “hater” wants him to. If he can continue it, then I’m all for him. I love to see him succeed; I’m just leery it won’t continue but will still be played everyday. Him and Cedeno have been handled a lot differently this year. Lou obviously will ride Theriot all year no matter what. Cedeno does not have that luxury.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Jul 20, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, good points all around.

The offense has me a little worried right now (the team numbers have been trailing slightly down since June). Batting averages are still solid (for the starters) but most are heading down at a slow pace. Not sure how our offense is rated #1 when we only have 2 starters hitting over .300 and no one in the top 10 in RBIs. I guess it is a total team effort right now.

Keys to this offense are obviously getting Soriano back, getting DLee going and getting something out of Fukudome. If those 3 get hot for a while (and the others stay consistently where they are) we should be fine for the stretch run.

I still say we may need a RF (like a Nady) to spell Fuku last half of the season. Not so sure he isn’t running out of gas right now.

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Jul 20, 2008 7:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

now we know the moon isn't made of green cheese, but what if it were

made of barbeque spare ribs, would you eat it then? heck I would! i’d have seconds and polish it off with a nice cold budwiser!

2008 Cubs: Who needs nine innings, when you only need a 7th?

by Chanman25 on Jul 20, 2008 10:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

With Ice Cream For Dessert?

Sign me up!

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 20, 2008 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's Face It

All of us have opinions, some of them extremely strong and vigilant. Some would call these agendas. Others would call them the truth.

I try to keep in mind that truth is in the eye of the beholder. Two people can look at Ryan Theriot and see two different ballplayers – one a “scrappy” hitter for BA and OBP, the other overrated and lacking in defense and baserunning. IMO both would be right.

I only have an issue with those who extrapolate extremes from their opinions – that either “Theriot is the best shortstop in MLB” or “Theriot sucks”. Both would be wrong.

As far as Piniella goes, like it or not he’s committed to Theriot at SS. Just gotta hope that 1) Lou will move him down in the order if he tapers off and 2) Lou will consider inserting a late inning defensive replacement when the Cubs have a lead against the Brewers and Cardinals.

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 20, 2008 10:48 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

LSA

"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermatrician...

by Curtain Jerker on Jul 20, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LSA for Cali Cub

"We have a pretty strong belief that we are going to win those types of games. It's our confidence. "--Cubs pitcher Ted Lilly

by Madison Cub Fan on Jul 20, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adding my LSA to the chorus.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 21, 2008 4:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

And in saying that, I have never seen a person on this board say Riot is the best SS in the majors, where I’ve seen many use the opposite opinion. I think the pro-Riot faction realizes he has limitations, whereas the ant-Riot folks don’t want to give him ANY credit at all. That’s the difference.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 21, 2008 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once again,

I’ve said three different time in this very thread that I fully recognize the positive thing Theriot has done. You should try reading other’s posts before you begin bleating that your aren’t being read.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not being read? maybe you should actually read what I'm writing, Gary.

Where do I say anything about “not being read”?

And “recognizing the positive thing Theriot has done” by saying “Okay, he hits a lot of singles to right” is a condensending way of praising.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 21, 2008 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yay!

undergraduate pile-on!

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...

undergraduste huh? I suppose you being proven wrong, along with ignorant makes this “undergraduate” huh? Oh well, keep livin Gar, you and your narrow mind will come around some day. I only feel bad for the people who have to endure your presence more often than on this anonymous board.

Keep up the good work Gar. Your point is well received when supported by ignorance.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMAO

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh and here...

comments like these are why I don;t leave you the hell alone.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I call 'em like I see 'em.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gary Gary Gary

I like to provoke no matter what the debate? You must see the hypocricy here.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never said I didn't.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not going to be baited any further.

It’s quite obvious we’ve reached an impasse. Agree to disagree?

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

Look, the Riot debate is a dynamic on this site that will probably never be settled. I really don’t mean to single you out, gary, I think there’s a couple other posters that are far worse in the things we’ve described here.

If I offended in any way, I do apologize. Peace.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 21, 2008 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No offense taken.

See you around.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 21, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not just directed towards you

You are not the only anti-Theriot person on this site. This post you happen to be that person. However in most posts people who don’t like Theriot are exactly as Carmen_fanzone describes them.

by ak123 on Jul 21, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there were people here

calling him an all-star. complaining that he wasn’t on the team.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will not claim to be of that group.

No all star for sure but not as bad as people think IMO.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This pretty much sums up my opinion...

...on the Great Theriot Debate as well. Just call me Switzerland on this one. I fully recognize Theriot’s rather glaring shortcomings as a player, but I know that, for the time being at least, he ain’t goin’ anywhere.

So I’ll politely applaud his seemingly nonstop spray of singles (though he did hit a couple of doubles this weekend), and I’ll continue to cringe when he makes a throw from anywhere near deep in the hole, and I’ll hope for the best.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 21, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And this approach Switzerland...

is exactly why I appreciate your input on issues. you and I actually disagree on Theriot (somewhat) but your approach towards this debate is far more appropriate IMO. I could often take a lesson from you my friend cause I get caught up in the battle too.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, hey, thanks...

...now might I interest you in some cheese or milk chocolate?

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Jul 21, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what?

no St. Pauli Girl? Where are your braids???

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 21, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

UFFDA!

That’s all I could come up with!

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on Jul 21, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From the land of rainbows and faeries

I really want to like Theriot for making as few outs at the plate as he has all year, but the arguments against him are really not refutable. I want to cut him slack on the CS because he was given the automatic green light by Lou at the beginning of the year. But the singles hitting, non-stealing and bad base running really does show up in the results. You’ve got to ask yourself: if Theriot is a top of the order hitter with the highest OBP among all regulars, why has he scored fewer runs than Lee, Fukudome, Ramirez and DeRosa? I mean, DeRosa has been hitting 8th and 7th pretty often, and has 40 less at bats and 30 points less OBP, but even he has scored more runs than Theriot. What’s the point of getting to first base if you can’t get any further?

But I can’t stand this debate and other debates like it (the scrap v stat variety), because at their essence, they are nothing other than an argument over how to enjoy baseball. I believe in the stats, even though I don’t get into them myself beyond the basics, because these are not estimates or projections but actual records of performance. At the same time, I can totally respect baseball fans who have no interest in analyzing data as part of their baseball watching enjoyment—as long as they don’t arbitrarily dismiss their value. Among fans of the same team, I’d like it better if people were able to get past “how” to enjoy the team’s success and simply acknowledge their mutual goals and support. “Sheep” isn’t the worst name to be called, but it’s unfortunate when regular posters from within the group apply it to (seemingly) large sections of their peers. From the other side, “haters’ is a stupid, extreme description to use.

Here’s hoping that Theriot’s limitations are the greatest of the Cubs’ problems for the rest of the year.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 21, 2008 8:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Your last sentence sums it all up.

Despite Theriot’s obvious limitations, the Cubs are 18 games over .500 and in first place. We should have such problems every year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 21, 2008 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.

by sue369 on Jul 21, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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The Top 10 Cubs Games of 2009
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An argument for Mike Cameron
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OT: How will the Big Ten wind up and who goes where?
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Should we trade him, or should we not?
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Starlin Castro Vitters etc LIVE Sat night
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Az Fall League Cubs

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FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

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Jeter wins Gold Glove, &#(#&^$*@!!
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It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

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Ticket Exchanges: Cubs Convention 2010
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