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Credit Where Credit Is Due: Cubs 1, Giants 2

Last night was yet another game I had to shut off in the fourth inning -- not because I didn't want to watch, but because if I stay up that late, I won't be able to function at work -- and I had a feeling that the Cubs wouldn't be able to come back, even from only being down 1-0, just as the night before I was confident they'd keep their lead.

Right again, unfortunately, and you can't really complain too much about the Cubs' 2-1 loss to the Giants. Oh, sure, you could say that Geovany Soto shouldn't have thrown through in the first inning when the Giants perfectly executed a double steal, leading to their first (and ultimately, decisive) run scored by Fred Lewis, but the bottom line is that the Cubs got beat by a pretty good pitcher who had a dominant game last night.

Seeing Matt Cain mow Cubs down makes me wonder why he's only 5-6; poor run support must be most of the reason, but last night Cain was almost unhittable. With the score 2-0 in the 7th, Jim Edmonds tried to give the Cubs the lead with what looked like it might be a HR, but Aaron Rowand snuffed that with a good catch, and then in the 8th, Jose Castillo -- who the Giants "settled" for to play 3B after they couldn't make a deal for the White Sox' Joe Crede -- made a nifty diving stop of a Mark DeRosa grounder that seemed headed to left field, ending that inning.

So by the time Giants closer Brian Wilson -- figures, a California team would have a closer with the same name as a member of the Beach Boys -- came in and gave the Cubs a consolation run when Derrek Lee led off with a triple and was singled in by Soto, it was too late. Wilson struck out Ryan Theriot to end the game, thus wasting one of Jason Marquis' better efforts of the year -- seven innings, four hits and two runs allowed. Fortunately, the Mets decided to actually win last night against the Cardinals, so for the second day in a row, there was no change in the Cubs' 2.5 game lead in the NL Central, and they maintain the best record in the National League. Yeah, I know: apart from the Cardinals and Brewers, that isn't saying much; the Giants "improved" to ten games under .500 at 37-47, and at five games out of first place they may still be in playoff contention in the NL West, a joke of a division with Arizona leading with a .500 record.

What I was most interested in reading this morning was Gordon Wittenmyer's notes column in the Sun-Times, detailing this upcoming lineup change for when Alfonso Soriano returns:

When Soriano returns to the Cubs' leadoff spot, manager Lou Piniella said he plans to use Kosuke Fukudome in the 2-hole against right-handed pitchers, with Jim Edmonds batting in Fukudome's old No. 5 spot.

That would put Ryan Theriot at No. 8 in those lineups and possibly batting in his accustomed No. 2 spot against some lefties, with Geovany Soto or Mark DeRosa considerations for the 5 spot.

All subject to change.

Let's hear it for Lou, who appears to have finally figured out the best slot for Fukudome -- second. The same column says that Soriano may be cleared to start taking BP this weekend. If that holds and goes well, my guess is that he'll be sent on a short (maybe 3 days) rehab assignment and possibly be ready to play against the Giants at Wrigley Field starting on July 11.

Finally, Tim, who is one of the LF bleacher season ticket holders, sent me this YouTube link, a home video shot of the fight in section 536 at the Cell on Saturday:

Here's the whole scoop on how this fight got started:

Doesn't sound like the brawling in the stands at Saturday's Cubs-White Sox game had much to do with Cubs against the Sox.

According to Tom Lamb, head of security at U.S. Cellular Field, the Sox don't know what precipitated the brawl, but apparently some money fell out of the purse of a woman, and another fan picked it up and refused to give it back. That led to several fans punching the alleged offender. Video of the action showed a Cubs fan joining in on the same side as some White Sox fans.

The man, Brian Nolan of Woodridge, was charged with theft and taken to district headquarters at 35th and Lowe Avenue and then to the First District lockup, according to a police source. He was released Saturday night on an I-bond.

"He got thumped pretty good," Lamb said. "He did admit that he picked up the money that fell out of the purse, and said he didn't have to give it back."

Rivalries... ain't they great? Let's get those Giants tonight.

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Can had good stuff

but was last night’s strike zone the WORST of the season so far, or was it just me?

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 2, 2008 8:31 AM CDT   0 recs

Can= Cain

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 2, 2008 8:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Last night's strike zone

did seem awfully fluid. Cain was getting some gift calls. The ones on the outside corner to lefties were the ones I noticed the most.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 2, 2008 8:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ones that stuck out to me were the Fukudome at bats

and Patterson’s pinch hit.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 2, 2008 8:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

those calls on Dome played a pretty big role in his strike outs as he had to expand his strike zone to swing at some balls off the corner

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 2, 2008 8:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dome

has looked awful at the plate for quite a few games now. I think he needs to sit as soon as we have the chance.

by adam316 on Jul 2, 2008 8:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 8:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+2

I’ve been thinking that for the past couple of games, as well. He’s been waving at pitches all over the place.

by polly on Jul 2, 2008 11:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+3

I’m worried about him.

by sue369 on Jul 2, 2008 2:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+4

Maybe a couple days off would serve him well.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 2, 2008 2:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

every time we've said that about Lee

he’s come out and been a monster.

Maybe that will work for Dome tonight. (Awaits Dome’s 5-5 day)

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2008 2:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't forget

the strike three call on Theriot. It was in the exact same spot of the previous pitch which had been called ‘ball.’ I hadn’t seen a strike called that far off the plate since Maddux circa 1997.

Not to mention a couple of curve balls to Dome that were literally five inches high.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 2, 2008 8:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagree

The called third to Theriot was paint. The pitch before it was an inch or two outside. I don’t have any problems with that called third.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jul 2, 2008 8:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No doubt...

Just wasn’t their night. After the circus play by their 3rd baseman in the 8th I felt things weren’t good.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No doubt and

it got worse as the game went on!

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 2, 2008 8:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice to see something that can unite Cubs and Sox fans:

kicking the ass of some thieving douchbag. Good stuff.

Cain was really sharp last night, but the Cubs really had a shot against Wilson and piddled it away and the Cubs really played some awful defense last night. At one point, they left both second base and third base uncovered while a ball dropped in the middle of three fielders. Gotta tighten up the screws and get back on a winning kick tonight.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 8:35 AM CDT   0 recs

yikes

didn’t hear about the D. Yeah, we have to play great defense to go all the way for sure

""At the end of the day, boys, you don't tell me how rough the water is, you bring in the ship." -- Steve Stone

by kentmeister on Jul 2, 2008 8:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

One thing I don't understand:

if Theriot didn’t feel good to start, why did he play at all. Seemed kind of odd to throw him in there to pinch hit at a crucial time when he isn’t feeling good. Not saying Cedeno would have gotten a hit, but at least he had seen Cain in 2 previous at bats… Did anyone else think it was an odd move?

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 2, 2008 8:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It was odd for a number of reasons.

But Maybe Lou knew something we didn’t.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 8:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

True..

I think it had more to do with Cedeno swinging at everything from the previous 2 at-bats. With the bench being as thin as it was weird.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 2, 2008 9:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So we watched Ryan not swing at anything

and achieve the same result. I agree that with the short bench, it was a weird move, but maybe Lou thought that Theriot could work a walk, and there’d be good speed on the bases, but who really knows.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 9:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Odd Moves

I thought Lou made some odd moves last night…the switch of Theriot for Cedeno and not pinch running for Ward after he led off with a double.

by funblvble on Jul 2, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Completely agree

Very odd spot to pinch hit Theriot. We had Ward on second in the 7th (I thought we would see Theriot or Patterson pinch run here) and as a result of the Cedeno/Theriot move, we had Soto on second base as the tying run in the ninth. I don’t think he scores on a Theriot single, assuming Giants are playing Theriot well.

by gocubsgo22 on Jul 2, 2008 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You want to save your pinch runner

for the tying or go ahead run…

That is why using Theriot right before the pitchers spot knowing that you have to have a pitch hitter there as well made no sense. Your burned two spots on your bench with that move and you used your two best pinch runners in a tight ballgame.

In the 9th, it is a no brainer to pitch run Soto in that spot…but there was nobody left because of the 7th and 8th Inning Decsions. How furious would we have been if Soto would have not scored on double from first or would have been throw out at home on single….

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Jul 2, 2008 12:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't think it odd...to me it had to do

with how bad Cedeno has recently looked at the plate. He had zero chance against Cain.

"Red Sox Nation: In your opinion, who’s the best player not in the HOF?
Bill James: Ron Santo" October 2004.

by cubfever7 on Jul 2, 2008 1:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Is it just me..

or did the dude who got thumped look like Fire Marshall Bill for “In Living Color”? “Let me show ya somethin’!”

Thanks for the report Al. Couldn’t watch and mlb reporter made it sound like the Cubs were just terrible in the box. Feel a little better after reading today’s post

""At the end of the day, boys, you don't tell me how rough the water is, you bring in the ship." -- Steve Stone

by kentmeister on Jul 2, 2008 8:41 AM CDT   0 recs

Tonight

If the Cubs want to split this series, they better win tonight. Lincecum is tough to hit on any night but have you seen the starting time for Thursday? Trying to hit him at dusk is the recipe for double-digit strikeouts and a shutout if you ask me.

I think the game write-up also needs to include mention of Ronny Cedeno failing to charge a DP grounder in the first inning. Yes, Randy Winn is fast, but Cedeno should have known that and charged that ball rather than waiting on it. By doing so, he didn’t get the DP which ended up in a first-inning run on the double steal. Just saying. The Cubs middle infield defense still leaves a lot to be desired no matter which of the four revolving infielders are playing.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jul 2, 2008 8:41 AM CDT   0 recs

He didn't fail to charge it.

He tried to make the play unassisted, because (surprise!) Mike Fontenot wasn’t on the bag to recieve the flip. So Ronny takes three steps to get on the second base bag and throws high to first, where wouldn’t have gotten Winn anyway. The main problem is that injuries have forced Lou to field defensive lineups that are just not used to playing together. Thia play is a perfect example of what happens.

The steal of home happened because Soto didn’t pay any attention to the guy at thrid and Fontenot couldn’t get the tag down at 2B. Like I said, the Cubs played some bad defense last night, all the way around. To hang it all on Ronny smacks of an agenda.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 8:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No

No, he did fail to charge it. He played it on the second hop intead of getting to it and flipping it to Fontenot. If he gets to it and Fontenot isn’t there, that’s on Fontenot. Instead, he didn’t charge it and the second hop took too long for the DP. He had no idea whether Fontenot was there or not.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jul 2, 2008 8:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, Lord.

I’m out. Here comes the Ronny hate for a play that wasn’t even his fault. If Theriot made the same play, he’d be lauded for his effort. But Ronny gets put on blast. Unbe-freaking-lievable.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 8:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm with you Gary

If Cedeno charges, he likely gets and in between hop that is more difficult to handle and, assuming he handles it, has to make an awkward throw to Fontenot at second. I don’t think they make that double play regardless of how Cedeno played the ball.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 2, 2008 8:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Jul 2, 2008 12:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Come on

Quit making this a Cedeno vs. Theriot thing as the comment had nothing to do with that side circus that some on here like to reinvent every day. Neither one of them are very good middle infielders, I don’t have a particular man crush over either.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jul 2, 2008 9:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks, krummy

for dousing the flames before the flared up too high. I’ve been a TheRiot supporter here, and when he k’d twice last night in key situations, my first thought was, “Man, BCB is going to light up with hate.” I’m still expecting it, and I’m not saying it isn’t warranted for that performance. But I’m also not convinced he’s as terrible as some make him out to be, and neither do I think that Ronny is as good as some have hoped. I’m losing confidence in both of them at this point.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 2, 2008 9:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ronny didn't look any better than Theriot

at the dish. I don’t think both guys would start on many other teams. Hendry really needs to address this, if not now, for sure in the offseason.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 9:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Except

Nobody’s ever called Cedeno an all-star. I was told yesterday that Theriot was an all-star offensively. He sure showed it last night, huh. And if Cedeno had the playing time that Theriot gets, then Cedeno would be hitting.

by sackings108 on Jul 2, 2008 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Neither one is stellar.

Let’s leave it at that.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 9:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 2, 2008 9:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+2

And Sackings, I would never call TheRiot an all-star or anything of the sort.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 2, 2008 9:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well...

we’ve been hearing for weeks on this board about how “theriot sucks, and cedeno is a MUCH better defensive SS.”

that play made it pretty clear that cedeno is in no way “a MUCH better defensive SS.”

so perhaps lou isn’t a fool for starting theriot over cedeno consistently…

by billywan on Jul 2, 2008 2:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

part of a continuing pattern

cedeno’s got range. a good arm. and the defensive instincts of a little leaguer.

by billywan on Jul 2, 2008 2:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Assuming that's true

He has an advantage over Theriot on all three.

I have never seen a major leaguer consistently out of position as much as Theriot. Hell, last year he and Fontenot both had to be taught the proper way to tag a runner, because the way they were holding the tag on it made it look like they didn’t feel they had gotten the tag down—and runners that were out were being called safe.

Cedeno is no all-star—but he is better than Theriot.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2008 2:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He has an advantage over Theriot on all three.

ROFL

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2008 2:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

nope

2 out of 3. but just my uneducated opinion.

by billywan on Jul 2, 2008 2:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Badger come on...

we’ve seen Cedeno’s body of work defensively for an entire season. He’s got more speed (range) and a quicker stronger arm, but he likes to try and make plays that aren’t there. This particular play wasn’t a bad decision on his part…Hamsternot decided to become a spectator and Ronny did the only thing he could.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 2, 2008 2:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not disputing that

But to say that Theriot isn’t much of a defensive drop off in the field is, in my opinion, incorrect. Cedeno made three plays on Friday that Theriot only dreams about—and that is also part of a consistent pattern.

Can you think of another MLB SS that taps the ball in his glove before throwing to first every time? He even does it during warm-ups.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2008 2:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

SWL, wait, I'm confused

You seemed to be disagreeing with me (I was saying Theriot was a worse fielder), but below, you seemed to agree with me.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2008 2:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

he's conflicted

and confused by your baby-blues…

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2008 2:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not desagreeing with you...

Theriot is a much worse fielder that Cedeno, but Ronny isn’t a fantastic defensive player either. He’s the best SS on the roster, but he tries to force plays he shouldn’t, and can be inconsistent with the routine ones on occasion.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 2, 2008 2:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

is it possible

that those qualities would come with more consistent play?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2008 2:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

for sure

but is it worth losing games while he does it?
he looks lost at the plate again. and lost in the field. not a good combo for getting playing time on this team, is it?

by billywan on Jul 2, 2008 2:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Who cares how he looks?

We aren’t graded on style points here.

Look, if you made me go out and make a list of the top 40 shortstops in baseball (MLB and prospects) I don’t think either of them would make the list. Nobody is trying to allege that Ronny Cedeno is a good shortstop or even a passable shortstop.

But since death (or a fourth outfielder) isn’t an option, someone has to play the position, and if you just want to pick the guy that looks more CONFIDENT while playing the position, I don’t find that very persuasive. I’d rather have Option C, but failing that, Cedeno is the one that in my mind comes closest to being an adequate shortstop.

by cwyers on Jul 2, 2008 2:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

semantics

so you’ve moved beyond arguing stats to arguing semantics now?

looks lost = swings at crap pitches. has a terrible approach. can’t get a hit. can’t get a walk. has been useless. has really bad instincts in the field, takes odd routes to fly balls, can’t turn double plays. makes poor decisions. costs us runs.

by billywan on Jul 2, 2008 3:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm arguing that you're wrong.

We have an objective record of what Ronny Cedeno has done in the majors. It’s not GOOD, strictly. But can’t get a hit? He’s hit the baseball before. He’s taken walks.

You’re trying to imply that he’s not very good at any of those things, and you could be right. But we can quantify how not good at those things he is, and compare him to other players to see who has more value.

Nevermind that a week ago people were saying Lee “looked lost,” and he went out the next day and went five for five. I really lack confidence in any one fan’s scouting assessment of a player when it comes down to generic pablum like “looks lost.” Players in cold streaks look lost, players in hot streaks look great. It’s meaningless.

by cwyers on Jul 2, 2008 3:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i would argue

that ronnie’s record is too short to tell us much about him. and that there’s a difference between lee not getting hits and ronnie not getting hits. but what his numbers do tell us is he’s a sub .260 hitter. and that his recent forays into the .300’s are abnormal.

i suppose streaks may be meaningless sometimes. but if we’re talking about making a line up for this team for today’s game i can’t see any reason to pick ronnie’s name. his approach at the plate is very different than it was earlier in the year. when he was successful he wasn’t flailing, he wasn’t swinging at balls and he was taking tough pitches rather than just going after a pitcher’s pitch. lately he’s back to last year’s ronnie who swings at junk and appears to be guessing.

i’m not saying my amateur scouting should be argument winning fact. but when you have a guy like ronnie, i don’t have any particular confidence that he’s going to do anything other than plummet back to being a .205 hitter.

by billywan on Jul 2, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not entirely sure

that Cedeno would cost us any runs that Theriot isn’t already costing us. And I continue to believe that Cedeno’s upside is higher—he may not score any runs, but he has greater ability to keep the other team from scoring.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2008 3:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

fair enough

yeah, it’s hard to balance what would be better. i just don’t think lou’s gonna be in the mood for any on the job training with ronnie this year.

by billywan on Jul 2, 2008 3:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He was the starting SS for the entire 2006 season...

and he didn’t exactly set the league on it’s ear defensively...but that’s not to say he hasn’t gotten better.

However, I’m reminded of Cwyers’ telling me that a players past performance is a good indicator of their future performance.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 2, 2008 3:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

correction...

almost the entire season…once we shed the burden of Izturis.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 2, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fielding percentage isn't, however.

Or at least, it’s not a good indicator of a player’s value. Because a rangier player gets to more balls, and more balls at the edge of their range, fielding percentage tends to penalize the better defensive shortstops by the sheer fact that you can’t be scored an error on a ball you don’t come within three feet of.

Cedeno’s 2006 SS performance wasn’t world beating, but it wasn’t miserable. I think his UZR was about average, but I don’t have Excel at work and can’t check.

by cwyers on Jul 2, 2008 3:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not saying that Cedeno is fantastic

Never thought it. Just that he’s better than Theriot. I think we’re on the same page.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 2, 2008 3:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

uh...

talk about your small sample size…

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 2, 2008 2:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No.

That play proved Mike Fontenot is completely lost in the field and that Cedeno can give plays a chance that Theriot can’t even attempt.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 2, 2008 2:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

never had a chance

and it seemed to me fontenot was waiting for the toss to meet it at the bag and then come across to make the throw. could be wrong, though…

cedeno still looked pretty lost to me. and again, i’m not trying to prove cedeno sucks. i’m just saying, after all of the lectures about how fantastic cedeno’s defense was? not so much…

by billywan on Jul 2, 2008 2:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ronny's defense is not "fantastic"...

but it’s better than Theriot’s. By a fair amount.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 2, 2008 2:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs