Jump now, folks ... more room for the rest of us
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 22, 2008 1:45 AM CDT
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PrintI have become convinced the majority of Cubs fans who aren't at Wrigley Field strictly for the party have become chronic ledge-jumpers and bedwetters who freak out at even the slightest glitch. There must be more manic-depressives among Cubs fans than any other team in baseball.
Just look at some of the posts around here tonight. They make me ashamed to be a Cubs fan. The doom and gloom is unbelievable. And why? Because they've lost three of the first four games they've played since the All-Star break. So what? Those four games are more representative of the season than the first 95 have been? Do you seriously believe that?
I wonder sometimes if some of you have watched a 162-game season from start to finish. I also wonder if you've watched any other teams play. You do realize other teams, even the very best ones, go through these stretches, too. The White Sox have lost three of their last four -- all at home. The Red Sox's home/road records almost mirror the Cubs' -- they've lost 10 of their last 12 on the road. I don't know (or really care) how their fans are reacting to that, but I would hope they're more mature and level-headed than what I've seen around here recently.
I am not advocating sunshine and balloons no matter what. But perspective and realistic expectations certainly aren't too much to ask. If the Cubs' woes go on for, say, another week or so, then it might be time to become somewhat concerned. But now is not the time for that. Fundamentally, this team has showed it's too good to play like this for too extended of a period. And, for the most part, that's been true.
I've often said if Cubs culture is ever to change, this paranoia, just-released-from-a-concentration-camp attitude among a not-insignificant part of its fan base must go away. If anything, it now seems worse than ever. The same idiots who wanted to get rid of Soriano a few months ago now think he's the savior. Lee and Ramirez apparently are now worthless. And because Fukudome has a slump means suddenly that Cubs batters are impatient?
You know, a lot of other fans of other teams can't stand Cubs fans. They think they're ignorant about baseball and only interested in partying at Wrigley. I've always stuck up for them, because I know too many good Cubs fans to think otherwise. But around here lately, it's apparent I might have to concede a few points to the Cub-fan haters.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Not Fair..
Just because we question the team we don’t know baseball? I’m just as much a die-hard as anyone. I don’t care what the White Sox are doing at home. You don’t question this team or it’s “superstars” after their performance of late? Or after their shutdown in the playoffs last year? I’ll be at more games this year than most people on this site. I’ll watch every pitch of every game that I can, but I won’t sugar coat the facts. Ramirez is clutch but when has he carried the team on his back? Same with Lee. Soriano can do it but he can shut down just as quick. The most consistant players are not superstars and that leaves alot of room for doubt. We can be world beaters in a series but we can also be chumps! It’s like rolling the dice. What team will show up in October? If we make it. St. Louis and Milwaukee are 2 games back. Again, I like this team and I am a long suffering die-hard fan, but I don’t have a warm and fuzzy about this team getting it done. Is that wrong?
by HomerInTheGloamin' on Jul 22, 2008 2:16 AM CDT reply actions
Yeah, it is wrong.
For someone who claims to follow baseball so closely, you don’t seem to be paying attention to the big picture. Every baseball player is streaky. Every single one. And with a few exceptions, almost every baseball team is streaky. Have you been following the World Champion Red Sox this year? You think their fans have had it easy?
Well, it’s not supposed to be easy. It’s not even supposed to be fun…all the time. Last night’s game was a horrible disappointment. This whole road trip thus far has been frustrating and worrisome (though I’d really recommend focusing on the starting pitching, because it’s been fantastic). But that’s baseball…that’s how it works. And just as I would hope Cubs players aren’t running around like chickens with their heads lopped off, I don’t think Cubs fans should either.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
You can have all the starting pitching in the world...
But you can’t win if you don’t score…
But I guess if you had all te starting pitching in the world, you would score…:)
The best defense is a good offense
I'll be the first to post NBF,
I remember you from last year (I was “Ken Hubbs” remember?). We started off at each other’s throats, then realized we both wanted the same thing and brokered peace. I thought this year you might have let up a little with your constant need to bully anyone who won’t see your viewpoint, but, sadly, I see you still don’t get it. You will not be able to force people to see things your way, period. Threatening, calling them names, and responding to every critical comment with a demand to shape up is not going to change anything. Everyone on this board is a Cub fan, each of us has a story to tell. You have yours, and I respect that. I salute you on wanting to see things in a more “realistic” stance. However, your “realistic” is another mans “pollyannaistic.” My suggestion is that you ignore those posters. Better yet, post your views of why you think differently, without the name calling and threats. Your view of things is not the only view, nor the right one.
Don't blow it boys!
Ken, it's not the only view
But I’d rather have fun than be depressed all the time. And I’d rather not have the barbarians drag me down.
And you know what? If you think it’s bullying, you don’t have to respond. Sound familiar?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 22, 2008 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions
NBF-
If you feel “dragged down” or “depressed” there is no one to blame but yourself. Like I said try ignoring it!
No, I don’t have to respond, but I chose to because I thought I might add another view to what you posted. Note, I didn’t resort to name calling, or questioning your loyalty to the Cubs. The only reason I tried to reason with you is that you do piss a lot of people off needlessly. You did the same thing last year and doing it again this year.
No, I don’t “think” it’s bullying, you are bullying!!
Don't blow it boys!
Spitting into the Wind
The funny thing is, you call everyone cliffjumpers when you yourself jump the cliff by spotlighting unfounded hysteria. You’re hysterical over hysteria. Cue the diabetic being run over by a sugar truck.
WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll
Just take a deep breath...
I woke up this morning (very early) with the ideal in mind to post the same ideal, but said a little different. I do think we as a Cub nation are a little paranoid, and rightly so. If we look at the numbers, our stars are all going down in batting avg., a really bad road record,(lou MUST fix this). We pretty much finish up on the road this year, so to finish where we want Lou has to step in and fix the road issue. The Red Sox just got swept in L.A., meaning all teams have bad stretches, we have strong pitchers, a solid line up, we will be fine. Mr.W is just pissed right now as I am, because of the slump, winning solves everything, always has, always will ! Now the notion that what we feel as a fan base will effect the out come on the field is crazy ! So, put your change in your left pocket, roll one sock down, turn your hat sideways, and win a frigging road series.
ernie81
Wow, the responses in this thread are really depressing.
NBF is right. Overreacting to one loss, or even a bad road trip, fails to take into account that this team plays extremely well at home and has been missing one of its best players for more than a month.
Like him or not, Alfonso Soriano can carry this team when he’s hot. They need to activate him NOW.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
And even w/ missing a huge cog to the offense
managed to keep a lead in the division.
Either come back in the building or just jump off the danged ledge, people. Treating every game we lose like the “worst loss ever” has got to stop.
The weather at Wrigley Field may change in an instant, but Aramis Ramirez is always steady in the clutch. - Associated Press (7/11/08)
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 22, 2008 4:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Activate him when he's ready
To prematurely activate an injury-prone guy is the definition of overreacting to a bad road trip.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
No question....
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
Last night was very depressing
in the game threads. If the Cubs lose a few more games it’s going to be unbearable in the game threads.
Al is there any way you could add a seperate thread for the “Angst ridden ledge jumpers” during the games? Or ask them to make their own thread.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
and while he's at it, maybe one for the Sunshine Squad
so they’ll stop abusing people for being critical or letting off some steam. I know there are some people who fly off the handle and make ridiculous comments about players, but there was a lot of complaining last night over negative posts
you can't "let off steam"
w/o being an ass? Because thats where most of the ledge jumpers went, especially if anyone tried to offer perspective.
The weather at Wrigley Field may change in an instant, but Aramis Ramirez is always steady in the clutch. - Associated Press (7/11/08)
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 22, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
seriously
and they quickly land in ugly territory and want to smear the team and us with their execrable insults
What doesn't kill you makes you stranger -- The Joker
Then feel free to attack the "ugly" commenters if you must
And leave those of us who are just being critical and showing some concern alone
But it's every stinking post
that is full of critical comments. Dude it gets depressing after a while.
I did start seperate game threads last year to get a way from that crap and got criticized from some for doing that. There are more of us who look at the glass half full than those like you so you should be the ones to have your own thread so you can criticize all you want and not be hassled by the rest of the glass half full crowd. If not be prepared to be hassled.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
Every post was critical? After a loss?
Shocking. Actually there were quite a few praising Harden’s effort.
Just pick your battles better.
I'm talking during the game.
Go back and read the posts.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
I was there remember?
I’m not sure how long you’ve been on this site but negative things are gong to be said during a loss. That’s NEVER going to change. Now you can just get used to it or let it bother you. Your choice. If you insist on reading every entry, you’re going to run into some nasty things. Myself, I skip those from people I know I don’t want to read.
I've been here longer
than you have. I (and others) will never get use to the negative crap. You want to keep posting critical stuff during the game you will have to get use to being called out for it. That will never change.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
You must have more of a right to say what you want than I do
BTW, I looked through the first game thread and found it sad that you patrol the entries and make almost no contribution other than +1000s for people being critical pf negative comments or doing it yourself. You just keeping calling that out if you want and letting them bother you.
You will be busy.
LSA!
Some on this site want to shut down others opinions. Are Heidi Cullen and Al Gore regular visitors? Because it has the same tone; there’s no debate, the Cubs are going to be fine all the time.
It utterly amazes me how some here burn so many BTU’s trying to tell others to stop and bitching about them instead of just doing their own thing.
That 1st amendment thingy is truly a wonderful concept.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
No one is saying they
are going to be fine all the time. I hate that they are stuggling right now. I do understand that there is nothing I can do about it and neither can any of you. All the whining and bitching done in here isn’t going to change one thing about this team. Even Al has said he does not like all the negative crap that is said. It really wears on people.
If you don’t like being called out in the game threads start your own game thread and then you can bitch and whine with others like yourself. If not then be prepared to be called out.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
Again, If we have to explain the purpose of this type of thread
and you still don’t get it, I guess you never will. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE NEGATIVE COMMENTS! Try contributing something other than your own negativity towards them. Don’t you see, last night was a perfect example. Someone made a ridiculous comment and insted of just ignoring it and letting it go, it turned into dozens of comments back and forth. And guess what? That contributes to slowing the game thread way down. So keep it up if you want, you’re only hurting yourself.
I guess if you read
the game threads you saw there were many who feel the same way I do. I can hang in there as long as they can. You are really silly if you think my comments slow the threads down. It couldn’t possibly be the 500 this team sucks. Lee needs to have Lou’s shoe up his ass, this team is just like all the other years teams, etc. posts.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
I am not trying to be silly
But just think if you, and those like you, didn’t respond every time someone says something negative and then it goes back and forth for many threads. There would be less entries and site would be faster. Why do you think a new thread has to be started every so often?
And if the example you mentioned is something that actually bothers you, I feel sad for you.
Those type of comments
bother many of the posters on this site. If you don’t like how many posts there are in a game theread ther’s an easy cure for that on your part.
The new threads had to be started when the team was playing all those extra inning games earlier in the season. We didn’t have extra game threads last year and the same things happened in them then that are happening now. You can blame the reason for the new threads on me but you will be wrong.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
Are you serious?
You are still arguing the fact that added posts don’t slow down the game thread? You actually just made my point for me. Please follow closely: Added posts, whether because of extra innings, or arguments, or whatever, SLOW DOWN THE THREAD. While your complaints might not do it by themselves, the many, many like them do.
Read the responses to Al’s recap and you’ll find that there are as many or more of us who find the Thread Police as irritating as you find negative comments.
I never said added posts
didn’t slow down the threads. I said the extra game threads were added because of all the posts made during extra inning games. If you remember they were winning at that time and lots of people were posting. Were you complaining then about the threads being slow?
We aren’t going to agree on this and that’s fine. You continue to do your thing and I’ll continue to do mine.
Go Cubs!
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
Then if you believe
all the whining and bitching won’t do one thing about the team, how could possibly believe it will have any affect on those whining and bitching?
Come on Sue, you’re usually posting insightful stuff; have the wisdom to know what you can and cannot change.
Blow if off if you don’t like what’s being said. Face it, it’s the 100-year syndrome and the fact this team and its fan base have dramatically changed since those two fateful nights in mid-October, 2003.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Even Al says all the negativity
is depressing and he is right it is. If they want to piss and moan and call the players names then let them start their own thread in which to do that. Why ruin the game threads for the rest of us? Why should we have to put up with that?
If you disagree the that’s fine. It happens.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
Venting
A lot can be said for letting it all out. Kudos to this site! This game really rubbed me the wrong way. We need to support Harden! I wish Lee and Ramirez were more vocal leaders. A win tomorrow will calm the seas, but we still have some needs to adress.
by HomerInTheGloamin' on Jul 22, 2008 3:59 AM CDT reply actions
Vocal leaders?
Why do you want them to be more vocal leaders? What to you want them to say? To whom?
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
O.K. maybe not a Knute Rockne speech type of leadership, but how about leading by example. Do you ever remember Rami or Lee carrying the team on their back? They only produce when the line-up is humming. Did you see Lee after the game today? I know i’m frustrated after a loss, but damn, can I get a little more emotion? My point is Johnson and Theriot have fire but are not the Superstar leaders. Soto has the fire but is a rookie. Edmonds may have it but this is not his team. Soriano is too streaky. Zambrano plays every 5 days. Lee or Ramirez have got to step up and carry this team at some point this season. I need to see that before the playoffs to gain confidence that this team can go far!
by HomerInTheGloamin' on Jul 22, 2008 5:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Ramirez and Lee are leading the team—in most of the offensive statistical categories. That’s leading by example. I didn’t see the game so I’m not as ticked off right now as you are, but if these guys showed more emotion while not getting results (like Johnson and Theriot), I don’t think it would make much difference to their playoff chances.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
Do you want a vocal leader?
Or someone to lead by example?
Or do you just want to whine?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
What?
Seriously, I’m reading some of your comments, and I have no idea what you want from the players. Players can be great, but not “carry a team on it’s back?” What? Seriously? You sound like the New York fans that bash A-Rod cause he’s not Jeter. It’s pretty ridiculous. And yes, I remember plenty of instances of Lee and Ramirez carrying the team. Your selective memory does not.
As people above have said, baseball is a 162 game seasons. Yeah, the last couple days have been rough, but lets not forget in the last 4 games, the cubs have outscored their competition. Yeah, it sucks, and people may not have “come through when it counted,” but that’s the way baseball works.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com
Al....
Do you ever get any sleep? Here you are working on your website at 3 in the morning. The reason I came over here was because the administrator at the site I use to frequent would not update for two weeks or more at a time. You are always right on top of the situation.
I’m not worried about this bump in the road. It’s a long season, and this happens to most all teams. I am confident that the Cubs will return to their winning ways soon. The Cubs are a better team than the Cardinals or Brewers for the long haul.
I'm at work at that hour (actually, 4 am).
During a bit of downtime at work I can update the site.
Thanks for YOUR voice of reason, too.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
It's sunshine and RAINBOWS...
...not balloons. Sheez NBF, get it right… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
nope - Matty-boy took them all with him to the left coast
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Ya know....
It gets under my skin when someone makes one bad play and ppl go off the deep end about it too. But, it also gets under my skin when ppl have to put down those who complain about the way this team has played over the last month, week or since the all-star game.
I love the Cubs, will support them to the end, but I am getting tired of watching the bullpen stink up the joint, Derek Lee kill another rally with another DP, Aramis striking out yet again with men on base, the Cubs loosing another game when the pitching is there holding the opposition to 1, 2 or 3 runs yet when it gives up 5 runs we win. I also am tired of Lou either overusing the bullpen or not yanking a guy quick enough, I am also tired of watching the Cubs lead in the division shrink.
However, I love that we are in 1rst place, find great ways to win, come from behind to win so often, have a great manager, have two aces now and added a good reliever/starter in a great trade, have Aramis who when he isn’t slumping is hotter than heck and Derek Lee who when he doesn’t hit into a DP drives in big runs…. etc.
So, what am I? To some you’ll sneer I’m a Debbie Downer or that I should jump off the ledge because I am concerned about some problems this team has. To others I am a Sunshine and Rainbow guy because I see the good things.
Come on everybody. Ppl have a right to complain for there are some big concerns with this team. They have a right to vent for baseball can be frustrating. Given the history of this team I fully understand why they feel that this is a here we go again, peeing it all away yet once again because this team, lets face it, has a record of doing so. This is supposed to be a place where ppl can complain and the last time I looked this is the United States where ppl can complain.
To those who complain, remember ppl have a right to celebrate the things going right. It is their right to believe this is the year, that this is the time this team will not blow it, that there are too many good things about this team for them to even want to complain about. How many years would we have given anything to been here and not 15 games out just playing out the remaining games and waiting till next year.
We all Love the Cubs whether we complain about them or don’t complain about them. Quit making fun of each other, putting each other down just because you have different views about the team. I can see both sides of this, there are concerns, but boy there is a lot to celebrate. So, have at it, call me a debbie-downer or call me a sunshine and rainbow, I know what I am, A Cubs fan!
"My favorite umpire is a dead one."
-Johnny Evers
I don't care if people complain...
I have a problem with unfounded complaints. A lot of the criticisms that have been happening are very unfounded, especially for those people that are already proclaiming the cubs will fail. Are you kidding me? There are so many reasons why this is wrong that it is ridiculous.
This is a very good Cubs team. They have an excellent change of doing very well this year. The complaints we’ve seen aren’t the criticisms that Al makes, which are usually spot on, but are drastic negativity with no reason, evidence, anything to back it up.
As for this being the United States…People have the right to complain, and everyone else has the right to tell them they are wrong.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com
Pessimism vs. Realism
Cub fans walk the fine line most of the time. I guess the pessimistic view would be that the ship is sinking and we’re definitely gonna get run over by BOTH the Brewers and Cardinals, where as the realistic view would be that IF they don’t get back to taking walks, doing the little things they did the first 4 months, which we all know they can do, then those two teams will pass us by. Is there a difference in attitudes? Slightly.
Demp and Rich: proof that people that live in igloos and say "eh" can contibute!
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 22, 2008 7:03 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I aree....but
I agree with parts of the opening post, but really have a problem with anyone who tells others how they should act as fans. The bottom line is the Cubs are full of a bunch of streaky hitters. The hope is they all don’t struggle at the same time. It happened in last years playoffs and it’s starting now. Although, they hit alot of balls hard off Johnson. Unfortunately, the offense may have to come up huge with Lilly and Marquis finishing out this series.
by Comfortably Numb on Jul 22, 2008 7:38 AM CDT reply actions
This is what happens
when a team hasn’t won a world series in a century. NBF, I’m so surprised you’re going on this rant…again. You’re not going to change anyone so why do you continue to point this out and look like you’re trying to change others. This is why that first amendment thingy is so cool; one can speak their mind. Who cares if they panic? Honestly NBF, does it affect your view of the team? Of course not, it probably never has, nor will it ever likely affect your view.
You are however confusing the culture thing. It’s not really chicken/egg as it is “when” they win the WS, the culture will change; not before and never before a WS win, or 2 or 3.
Personally I believe in karma and momentum within a game and within a stretch of games. One play can affect the game and I’m not talking about a walk-off or something late in the game in general. It happens to every team. But when it happens to a team that hasn’t won diddly in a century, the pressure appears greater.
Lets face it, this team has not played well recently. They were not too far off from being swept by a crappy SF team at home a few series ago. But good teams can get out from that. I am for one worried a bit about this team’s road approach. Hopefully the, “we won’t take BP approach” Lou will change the karma the team has on the road.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jul 22, 2008 7:42 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
as most others have said
you’re right and you’re wrong.
You’re right in the fact that people overreacting to this recent stretch and jumping ship, etc is a ridiculous overreaction and one that shows an immaturity and a lack of realism from the poster
However where you’re wrong is calling out people for being zealous about their pessimism when you present yourself as a martyr in these posts and actively go around the site looking to point out who’s being overly pessimistic. You’re a zealot in the opposite direction and one who’s actively looking to point the finger at others and take joy from it.
Now maybe I don’t look closely enough, but I hadn’t seen you around the site at all when we were winning early in the season and everyone here was in an optimistic mood, but as soon as some questions are raised you’re front and center pointing the finger at everyone else telling them they’re not as good of a Cubs fan as you. It’s hypocritical and obnoxious to say the least.
Maybe I’m coming at this too personal since you’ve tried to point the finger at me for my comments on Lou’s overuse of Marmol when I’ve clearly stated time and time again that I thought the reason we shouldn’t have used him so often early in the season was that we were a good enough team to overcome having to run 1 guy out there day after day. But that experience along with the others I’ve seen from you has severely clouded my view of what you’re trying to accomplish, which appears to be playing the role of the martyr and pointing your finger at all other Cubs fans to know how great of a Cubs fan you are. Its the same crap that Blue Mike pulls with his “die hard” speech.
Everyone here loves the Cubs, they wouldn’t have found a site like this if they didn’t love the Cubs. Some fans have differing levels of experience in their fandom and some are annoyingly reactionary to the bad times (and the good times for that matter), but all in all we’re here for 1 purpose: our love for this team. You make it out like we’re here to incite chaos, when you yourself seem to “live” for posts like this which you can ridicule.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 22, 2008 8:00 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Loud Sustained Applause...
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I don't read the game threads anymore while watching the game on TV
because it takes the joy out of watching the Cubs. It seems that every time they fall behind or have a bad inning or have a lead and go to the bullpen, out come the naysayers, the doom-and-gloomers, the Chicken Littles.
I enjoyed last night’s game although the outcome was not a win. I was on the edge of my sofa watching Harden throw a masterpiece, striking out 10 while only giving up one hit, albeit a HR and the only run the D’backs needed.
I can only imagine what was being said in the game thread about the fat pitch, an 85-mph slider that “slid” right down the middle of the plate that Harden threw to Romero for his first career HR.
I can only imagine the WTFs, the FUs, the “who is this hack, Romero?”
I never gave up hope that the Cubs could pull it out. Sure I was disappointed when DLee hit into the DP and ARam ended the game with a GO 4-3, but I also remember how many times I’ve jumped up out of my seat to cheer what these two and the Cubs have done so far this year.
"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."
by flachimesa on Jul 22, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Very well said.
I enjoyed the game as well. Harden through a gem, and the breaks didn’t go our way last game. Sure, it was a bit disappointing, but as you’ve said, this team has me believing. They have done amazing things this year, and I see no reason why that will not continue.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com
wow - they have lost 3 out of 4 in July.
By all means, jump off the ledge if you want to. It’s July. I’d rather see this happen now than in the end of September (and who knows, maybe it will). However, I can understand the anger – I dropped a few F bombs watching the game last night. One of the most disheartening games I’ve seen them play this year. A gem by Harden wasted, tons of hard hit balls that didn’t drop – it’s not the first time that has happened. There are still 2 games left to make it to .500 for the trip.
I complained about having no shoes......
until I met a man with no feet.
Not only am I a newbe here but I’m surely on the outside looking in.
I’ve read this whole post and set of comments. I understand both sides.
I just want to say this…getting to the top is tough but staying on top is tougher.
Cub fans aren’t any different than most other fans.
When things are good you relish it and when things are bad you get nervous. Thats part of the beauty of baseball. It’s the emotional roller coaster. Roller coasters make some people puke. It’s to be expected.
the Cubs are holding onto a thin lead but that sure is better than being under the cellar door.
Every competing team goes through this, you just hope it comes at a good time. The timing could be worse for sure. Right now there’s only one contender that can gain on you.
The Brewers picked up a game on the Cubs and Cardinals yesterday. They’re likely to beat the Cards again today. Its the heat of the battle this week.
Right now I’d feel better If I were a Cub Fan than a Cardinal fan. We have a lot more to be worried about. The Brewers tried to give us last nights game and we almost took it…but we gave it back. But we always lose games for THE SAME REASON. Our closing pitching sucks.
The Cubs have a solid staff and a solid team. So what if they’re on a bit of a slide? It happens. And when it does some people see doom and gloom…and they could be right….or they could be wrong. But they shouldn’t be blamed. It’s the nature of baseball and the nature of humans.
Hang in there. I don’t think the Cubs are going to collapse. There are only 2 teams in this division to compete with. One of them just rolled the dice and pulled out all the stops in an attempt to make a run for it while the other seems to be giving games away.
I like the Cubs chances.
And don’t dwell too much on post season. It’s too far down the road.
It’s great to be optimistic but it’s ok to be worried too. It’s all part of the game. That’s what baseball is all about.
Welocome Dave and thanks for your level headed....
...and very subjective comments. I have some things regarding finance I need you to talk to my wife about when you have time!
The charitable, cohesive Cincinnati Reds:" Hamilton acknowledges that he sensed some resentment in the locker room from three or four players." SI-May 2008 (and one announcer?)
Welcome Dave!
First I want to offer my apologies for some uncalled-for swipes I took at the Cards a couple days ago. Suffice to say they were unfounded and unwarranted.
I think this thing goes down to the wire, and I think 2 of the 3 teams in the NL Central hunt go to the postseason. To me it comes down to consistency, with consistency being borne of the most balanced roster. Whoever can minimize their weaknesses (Cubs road offense, Brewers bullpen, Cards back end of the rotation) will make it.
You guys still have a great shot mostly because of your winning record on the road and the bags of horseshoes and four leaf clovers buried under the plate at Busch. Seriously, nobody is going to run away with this thing barring a significant injury to the other two. Fans of all three teams are in for some delights and disappointments on a daily basis until the last game of the year.
Eat More Katsui
Great post NBF
I was floored and depressed to see all the doom and gloomers come out of the woodwork yesterday (and it wasn’t just during the game). I’m as frustrated with the Cubs’ recent play as anyone, but come on, show a little optimism guys.
Some people have 3 layers, like pie.
Dave
You speak as one who has won before. We have NEVER experienced that. All we have in our past is failure & futility. I will personally never give up on my Cubs, but many here are nervous even when we’re having good streaks. (how long can they keep it up, what happens IF, etc.) A friend of mine says he feels sorry for Cub fans who cannot enjoy this season. He did not suffer the pain of ‘69., ‘84, 89, & 03. Many of us are reluctant to raise our hopes only to have them crushed again. Hopefully, winning at least a pennant will change the mindset forever!
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
KedzieKid...
I thought about that very thing while I was typing but I thought I might be perceived as “rubbing it in” by somebody here if I were to say something like that.
It’s a point I wanted to make but I didn’t want to be taken the wrong way.
I don’t know what it’s like to have a team that’s never really been close to getting the gold ring. But I understand how it can make you feel when you do get close.
I’m not sure which is worse…..Boston, who always showed up for the party but never was let in or the Cubs who weren’t even invited.
The pretty girl EXPECTS to dance but the ugly one has no such expectations.
Which one has the bigger letdown? I’m not sure.
I guess the ugly girl would get pretty excited to just be invited.
The Cubs are kind of like that girl that was ugly all through grade school, but now seems to be getting better looking all the time. She’s got some boobs now like the big girls. She’s going to get invited more often and sooner or later she’s going to get that dance.
And if she plays her cards right, and puts on just the right makeup she’s gonna get laid.
Sorry Dave
But if your intention was to not be taken the wrong way, in one post you’ve been pretty insulting. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to a pretty bad analogy rather then you trying to rub it in.
So you're saying the Cubs finally have boobs.
Thank you, sir!
(Just joking – I totally get your analogy, however crude it might be, and don’t think you’re rubbing it in at all.)
Nanika Ga Okoru!
OK...
I didn’t mean to be offensive, and if I ever am, please know that’s it’s not intentional.
But hey, you know better than I do that the Cubs have been the ugly ducklings for a long time. Always subject to all the bad jokes, and so on and so on.
What I said, I guess, was a backhanded compliment.. (actually, I think the analogy is pretty good if taken as it was intended.) But please allow me to redeem myself.
The Cubs are all dressed up…with somewhere to go! In fact, I think they’re dressed to kill!
They look sexy enough to have been getting everybody’s attention. Some even say they might be “The Belle of the Ball”.
(is that better?)
So let me poke a little fun at my Cardinals….with another analogy.
We got a new dress for this year’s party but we’re standing in the rain with our makeup running. And the new dress has a big hole in it.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 22, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a little more family friendly.
Honestly, I wasn’t offended by the first analogy, but I’m not easily offended by such things. And I can’t help but agree with you: The Cubs have a long history of finding themselves alone and forsaken at the bottom of the standings. They’re a real looker now and ready to go to the dance.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Alright alright
I see where you’re coming from…I still think the analogy is a little weak for the Cubs. We have had years where we have not been the “ugly chick”. I think the growing up from a ugly duck into a swan fits the last year Rockies more than us. If the Cubs are a woman…then looks would have to be pretty relative…cuz the Cubs would be a very old woman. Now i’m just being a nit-picking idiot.
Bwahahahahhh!!!
Did I use the reply button correctly dad?
The charitable, cohesive Cincinnati Reds:" Hamilton acknowledges that he sensed some resentment in the locker room from three or four players." SI-May 2008 (and one announcer?)
Ok--it's a Schwinn?
The charitable, cohesive Cincinnati Reds:" Hamilton acknowledges that he sensed some resentment in the locker room from three or four players." SI-May 2008 (and one announcer?)
Oh damn!
That is waht the “Wash My Car” button is for daver..how long you been here man?
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 22, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
This post is stupid...
it is high and mighty, and it reminds me of those self proclaimed “die hard” Cub fans that think that everyone else could learn a thing or two from you. Give us a break. If you hate being here so much, then why in the world are you here? For such a knowledgable and intelligent person, you sure are taking a while to figure out that you can simply leave.
As for the concerns about this team. For people to say that Kosuke in a slump appears to have had a negative effect on the overall patientce of this team is not out of line. It is an opinion and a fairly valid one at that. Stop acting like anyone here who has an opinion other than yours is just wrong.
Are there ledge jumpers? Yes. Are they overreacting? Sure. Are the majority of fans here simply expressing displeasure with the play over the past few weeks? YES. Why is that so hard to deal with.
My opinion: The Cubs look like crap right now. Does this worry me? Yes. Is teh seaosn over? No. MIL and STL look good and consistent. Why is that so hard to understand? They are good, we are not right now, I do not want the Cubs to cough up their lead in the division.
I know I can be critical here. You are topping me big time IMO. You claim all the ledge jumpers are “non fans” who just like to party at Wrigley. I say if you had any sense whatsoever…you would know that those people do not spend their time during each day on a Cubs board, they talk about what a huge party they had at Wrigley that weekend. And during the games that they do not go to…I am akmost certain they are not in here talking Cubs.
Please do us a favor and get over yourself.
Calm down.
Agreed...
There are certainly those who are “ledge jumpers.” But Not Bruce Froemming is the other extreme – the overzealous anti-ledge jumper.
If he/she did anything but post tirades against the ledge jumpers, maybe he/she would have some credence in my mind. And if he could discern honest discussion from ledge jumping maybe he/she would have more credibility. Instead, he/she has become the Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson of the board – someone who represents a good cause but who has gone way too far to the point of being obnoxious and makes a mockery of the cause instead.
by SouthernCub on Jul 22, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
And I happen to agree with NBF believe it or not
I think this team will be fine. I just hate the self righteous preaching to us who happen to express displeasure about a pretty weak performance by this offense. As for Harden, if anything should give everyone a sense of hope it is Harden’s stellar performance, again.
i should have been a little more peaceful to NBF though in re-reading. I just don’t want to hear that I am not a Cub fan if I am unhappy with the team’s play.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 22, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree that the team will be fine, too...
And I don’t care for the true ledge-jumpers either. My problem with NBF’s approach is both the righteous/pompous attitude he/she has in diaries/posts such as this diary and his/her failure to distinguish between honest/reasonable discussion and ledge jumping.
by SouthernCub on Jul 22, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I’m just checking myself so as not to be an instigator rather a voice of reason. That’s all.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 22, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Look at some of the posts last night
on the game threads. And look at BlueMike’s and Homer’s diaries. Then you tell me if there’s anything reasonable or honest about that.
Not only are they overreactions in the extreme, they also sap any sort of enjoyment out of the game.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 22, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying there aren't ledge-jumpers...
just saying that you’ve extended your attacks beyond the ledge-jumpers so many times that you’ve lost credibility. For example, MDBNIU’s diary is not ledge-jumping, though there are some examples. It’s suggesting ways to get out of the current slump. Yet you’ve labeled it an extreme overreaction.
MDBNIU can certainly be annoying, but he’s not a ledge-jumper. He’s passionate about his Cubs, even if he can be offensive, arrogant, and often misguided. His post is another example of you reaching too far in your angst. MDBNIU honestly believes the current struggles are systematic and is suggesting possible ways to address the problems. To label that diary as an example of ledge jumping is just ridiculous.
People who say “the game is over” after the team gives up a run in the second inning are ledge jumpers. People who say “there’s something wrong and the team needs to find a way to fix it” aren’t. You seem to be unable to distinguish between the two.
by SouthernCub on Jul 22, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
He certainly prefaces it that way
This team was doomed without Harden, he said for so long. Now that the Cubs have Harden, they’re doomed again because of something else. It’s ridiculous.
As for the actual points he makes, I agree with him on 1 and disagree on 2. Soriano hits better at leadoff than anywhere else. That’s a fact.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 22, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
And he also makes it sound
as if this current slump is a permanent condition rather than something every team goes through in a season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 22, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
You are right about that...
it can only be a phase. No team sucks for 60 some games…well, most teams don’t do this.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 22, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
That's still not ledge-jumping...
His analysis may or may not be correct. I happen to agree with him that we probably needed another ace quality pitcher to win in the playoffs. I don’t know whether the current slump is systemic or not, but that’s a reasonable opinion, not ledge-jumping.
Saying “the season is over” because we lost a game is ledge-jumping. Saying “this slump is systemic” and suggesting ways to improve the team is not ledge-jumping.
by SouthernCub on Jul 22, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
One of the scarier realizations for me has been
I agree with BlueMike from time to time. His communication skills need a bit of honing but he makes a valid point now and again.
Harden is a GREAT addition to this team. Since he came though, this offense has been just that…offensive.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 22, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
You are becoming like thevery poster you seem to despise.
By posting again and again about “ledge jumpers making you sick” and insulting those who have concerns, you are acting more like BlueMike than you think. We get that you would rather not hear the negatives during the game thread (though I cannot see how that is avoidable with such a horrid offensive performance last night) but they happen. I belive Forrest Gump said it best when he said, “____ Happens”.
Just let the extremists be freaks about it, let the moderate complainers have their say (like me), and then join in with the positivists. It is a very simple solution.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 22, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed...
it’s attacks on the middle ground from NBF that annoy me. I consider myself very much a moderate, and I’ve incurred the wrath of NBF a couple of times (despite NEVER committing the act of ledge-jumping).
It appears that even any sort of critical analysis of the team constitutes overreaction and ledge-jumping to NBF. I enjoy analysis of the game as well as watching and cheering for the Cubs. Sometimes that analysis can be critical, sometimes it is very positive. But it is not ledge-jumping.
by SouthernCub on Jul 22, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I've tried to avoid panic...
...and I’ve also noticed how grating NBF seems determined to be…BUT…
I am a little worried and am a product of my 50+ year Cub heritage. I want Alf back—I want the old Dome back and I’d love to see some timely ropes from the middle of our order.
Who’d have EVER thought that Jim Edmonds and Mike Fontenot would end up being the best options for timely hits in 2008?
I’m not as concerned about the Cubs rebounding as I am by the way the Brewers are playing. If they all start to hit together-look out kids-that lineup can be fearsome and CC hasn’t out pitched Harden, but their team has three wins already in his starts.
The charitable, cohesive Cincinnati Reds:" Hamilton acknowledges that he sensed some resentment in the locker room from three or four players." SI-May 2008 (and one announcer?)
i've been thinking
about what to say in this post. and the more i’ve thought about it, maybe my experiences and perspective can help a bit.
i worked for a aaa baseball team for a season, in the media relations department, so i was in the clubhouse every day during the year. and trust me, the players want to win on a daily basis, but they understand they can’t.
it’s why the derrek lee’s and aramis ramirez’s of the world don’t show a ton of outward emotion or vocal leadership on a daily basis. if they took every at bat as if it was the bottom of the 9th in the 7th game of the world series, they would be burnt out by august.
so, some nights you’ll lose a 2-0 game that you probably shouldn’t have, but that’s baseball. yes, as fans, it hurts. but the players know that you have to turn the page on that game and begin focusing on the next one as soon as possible.
baseball is a game of highs and lows played out over 7 months – the good teams understand that. the leaders of this team understand that the offense is slumping a bit, but they also know that they did exactly what good teams due under durress – they treaded water until the return of soriano.
believe me, i enjoy it when things are going the cubs’ way, but working in a clubhouse, and seeing how a team needs to pace itself has been vital to not getting as frustrated as i had in the past.
by Bill Potter on Jul 22, 2008 12:08 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Nicely stated and great insight.
The charitable, cohesive Cincinnati Reds:" Hamilton acknowledges that he sensed some resentment in the locker room from three or four players." SI-May 2008 (and one announcer?)
It was better than yours ;c-)
The charitable, cohesive Cincinnati Reds:" Hamilton acknowledges that he sensed some resentment in the locker room from three or four players." SI-May 2008 (and one announcer?)
thanks for the kind words.
i’m sure if the same kind of play continues, then the leaders (lee, theriot, etc.) would step in and be more vocal – just as they were last year. but trust me, these guys know it’s a long season, and while some fans would like to see them go 162-0, a little perspective goes a long way.
by Bill Potter on Jul 22, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
And...
... how does any one of us know how vocal these guys are in the privacy of the clubhouse? Yes, D-Lee and A-Ram don’t say much to the media, unlike, say, the glib Mark Grace used to.
But there are some things that STAY in the clubhouse. And that’s as it should be.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Exactly.
And, I’d rather have a team that is consistent in their emotions, as opposed to swinging from one end of the spectrum to another and wearing themselves out.
+1
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 22, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Awesome post, Trey
That’s what I’m talking about. Not Pollyanna-type crap.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 22, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you Trey.
It’s nice to read a perspective from someone who is in the know. Hopefully it will help all of us to under stand what the players are going through.
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
I rec'd this
b/c its definitely something we need to keep in mind.
The weather at Wrigley Field may change in an instant, but Aramis Ramirez is always steady in the clutch. - Associated Press (7/11/08)
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 22, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Great posts, all around
for me personally, during or after a game, I am venting my emotions based on the outcome. Last night, what made me angry was the GIDP by Lee. A lot of us felt it was coming, and it did. A Ram could have picked Lee up and at least extended the inning, but he didn’t. The loss didn’t bother me as much as the way we scrapped in the 9th only to go down meekly when we had a pitcher/team on the verge of blowing it. I don’t consider myself a ledge jumper, and I hope no one thinks of me as one. I will from time to time post some stats after a loss to emphasize a certain trend or what have you. I know each player is trying as hard as they can to win. No team will win 162 games. I still think we will win the division.
I vent my feelings and thoughts on this virtual bleacher outlet and share some of the angst with the others. But then after I sign off, I’m calm, I go about my business and await the next game.
As Cubs fans, we really don’t have much history of success to fall back on to assuage our angst. How many expansion teams have played in a World Series since we have been in one? The hated Mets have won 2 WS titles, the frigging Marlins have won 2, the D Backs have won a WS. Getting to the playoffs once or twice a decade doesn’t cut it anymore. This team is built to win this year, and when seemingly “lesser” teams continue to bark at our heals, we get pissed. At the end of play on the last day of the season, if we are ahead by one game either as division winner or wild card winner, we will be happy. But another quick exit in the post season without getting to the big dance will be a hard pill to swallow. Everyone loves their Cubs in their own way. Win or lose, I watch every game that is televised here and I go to at least one game every time the Cubs are in town. I attend many spring training games. I support them with my time and dollars. If I want to vent after a loss, so what? I believe that’s all 99.9% of us are doing. Nothing more than that.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Other Boards
are far worse when it comes to negativity. To the point where posters would say “Winning run on 1st” if the opposition got a guy on in a scoreless tie in the 2nd inning, or “Wood will choke again” when he comes on for a save in the 9th. It’s this kind of one trick pony that gets very tiresome very fast.
A lot of people act this way as a sort of emotional defense mechanism, in case the Cubs don’t win. They’re still in agony over last year, 2004, 2003, and going back all the way to Durham’s error and Tommie Agee being called safe at the plate. They don’t want to go through that kind of hurt again. But unless a team is so talented as to be foolproof, there’s always going to be the possibility of coming up short. It’s not just “because they’re the Cubs”!
Safe to say that the Cubs were flawed in 2007/2004/2003/etc. Unfortunately they have a couple flaws in 2008 as well. Maybe they fill these holes internally with callups from Iowa or just plain ol’ better concentration from the guys on the ML roster. Maybe Hendry trades for another OF bat and that helps the offense do better on the road. But if not, then I believe the Cubs can still win the division and the pennant. It just won’t be a slam dunk.
Be disappointed, but try not to be overly cynical because of unrealistic expectations.
Eat More Katsui
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