A Harden Luck Pitcher: Cubs 0, Diamondbacks 2
Well, that was a waste of time.
No, not Rich Harden's effort in the Cubs' 2-0 loss to the Diamondbacks, continuing Bank Holding Company Ballpark's reputation as a Cub house of pain -- the Cubs are now 13-26 there, and that doesn't include the two playoff losses there last year. I wasted my time staying up to watch; it was a fairly quick game at two hours and 18 minutes, ending by 11:00 pm CT, but ultimately a dissatisfying loss, another one where I shut the TV off immediately after Aramis Ramirez grounded out to end the game.
Harden was magnificent. He mixed his pitches up well, had excellent velocity, and probably could have (and considering Bob Howry put the game further out of reach in the 8th, probably should have. Told you I don't trust Howry!) thrown another inning, having reached 112 pitches, but walked only two, and you know how I sometimes say "one bad pitch"? That was literally true for Harden last night -- he got a pitch up on D'backs RF Alex Romero, and he homered, the first of his major league career (which consists of all of 65 at-bats). Harden had no-hit stuff last night and until Romero's HR, I thought he had a shot at one. He's now thrown 12.1 innings as a Cub, allowed six hits and a walk and one run, struck out 20 -- and has a no-decision and a loss to show for it.
Meanwhile, the Cubs were hitting Randy Johnson. No, really, they were -- hitting fly ball after fly ball right at people, and Chris Young did make a couple of nice running catches. I kept thinking one or more of those fly balls had to fall in, but they never did. The Cubs' only two hits were a leadoff single by Jim Edmonds in the 3rd, and a leadoff single by Reed Johnson (what's with that Fu Manchu, buddy?) in the 4th. Harden laid down a nice sacrifice bunt to advance Edmonds to 2nd, but he was stranded... and that was it till the 9th, when a leadoff walk and an error put runners on first and second with nobody out. But D-Lee hit into his 20th DP of the year and A-Ram, in a huge slump (2 for his last 30 and down to .271), ended it with the groundout. Those guys have got to step up with Alfonso Soriano out, and they haven't. Randy Johnson is now 13-0 lifetime vs. the Cubs, and this is likely his last regular season start against them; according to Len & Bob, the only other pitcher in history to have at least ten career starts vs. the Cubs without a defeat is Sal Maglie, who pitched for good Giants and Dodgers teams in the 40's and 50's when the Cubs were mostly bad. Give Johnson credit -- he was sharp last night and made the pitches he wanted to make. He's not what he used to be (when Johnson made his ML debut on September 15, 1988, Rich Harden was not quite seven years old), but for one night, he recaptured some of his past brilliance. One more historic note: Rich Harden is now the first pitcher in Cubs history to record ten strikeouts in each of his first two starts with the team.
Really, if Lou wants to jumpstart this offense, he'd forget about the plan to have Soriano head to Tucson (where there is a chance of rain tonight) where Iowa is playing tonight, and just have him activated and start in LF in Phoenix. Instead, here is Lou's brilliant idea:
"Tuesday Time Change. No Batting Practice."
After watching another night of meager offensive production -- this time against a 44-year-old former power pitcher using the Cubs for his personal Hall of Fame pass -- Piniella said he's taking the bats out of his hitters' hands before the game again.
Well, who knows? Maybe it'll work. In any case, perspective: the Cubs still lead the NL Central by two games even though they have now lost four of their last five. And in those five games, they have allowed twelve runs, so the issue isn't with the pitching staff -- they've been good to outstanding over those five games. Except for the outburst on Sunday, the Cub offense has been mostly missing in action... and a lot of that is because of missing Soriano. Including the June 11 game when Soriano was hit (because he played only one inning of that game), the Cubs are 17-17 since he went down; they were 2.5 games ahead on that date and 2 games ahead now.
Get Soriano back. Today. Don't waste more time. He's needed.
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I'm too upset....
To say first
"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."
by CubsBullsBears on
Jul 22, 2008 8:10 AM CDT
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But you said it anyway
"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk
by NittanyCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:47 AM CDT
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I'm disappointed with the loss
but it was one heck of a game. Like you Al,i kept thinking one of the hard hit balls had to drop and lead to some runs. A fantstic pitching duel and some great defense by the D-backs. even with a bad run of late the team is still in 1st -that’s not bad.
by sdurst on
Jul 22, 2008 8:15 AM CDT
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Jim/Lou...while your at it
Please get Dome and Aram back from the body snatchers as well
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on
Jul 22, 2008 8:16 AM CDT
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Aramis...
Has looked bad lately. He’s swinging at horrible pitches, which really isn’t like him. As a positive though, he usually goes on a tear after slumps like this. Hopefully we all heat up when we head to Milwaukee.
"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."
by CubsBullsBears on
Jul 22, 2008 8:20 AM CDT
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Well....
Ramirez and Kosuke haven’t been the same since the later was moved out of the # 5 spot. Lets end that experiment today.
Although horribly unpopular to critique Lee I think it is high time consideration be given to finally moving him in the lineup. Look, I like Lee. Fact is he is a good ballplayer and a solid positive member of this ballclub. But an old baseball philosophy goes you put your best pure hitter in the # 3 hole. Is Lee our best pure hitter? Well, strong objective argument can be made that he is the fourth best hitting 1st baseman in the National League Central behind Pujols, Berkman and Fielder. And we’re supposed to be one of the elite teams in baseball with a juggernaut offense. Go figure. This is a debate worthy topic. Unfortunately since I brought it up it will be torpedoed and ridiculed and I will be labeled a Lee basher. Oh well.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on
Jul 22, 2008 8:26 AM CDT
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I won't ridicule you but...
want to know who you would hit 3rd?
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:29 AM CDT
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Maybe Soriano, or maybe even Soto...
Or maybe even Mark DeRosa. It’s a difficult question with not clear answer. But it is high time to critique Derrek Lee being the lifetime # 3 hitter in this lineup.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on
Jul 22, 2008 8:31 AM CDT
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It's a tough decision but I think
you run into the same Dp problem with Soto. I haven’t looked up any stats or anything like that but just a feeling. When Lee is on he fits perfectly there. Has the threat of power, hits a lot of doubles, etc.. The only one I would consider would be Soriano but we all know that wouldn’t happen. DeRo slumps with the best of them… It’s just a matter of Ram and Lee and even Soto slumping at the same time.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:35 AM CDT
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Soto has 6 DPs, not many compared to DLee's 20.
by sackings108 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:51 AM CDT
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But may have more if he was hitting 3rd?
Not sure it’s comparable until they both have a sample size batting 3rd. I’m not defending/picking on either player.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:54 AM CDT
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I've been saying that about Lee for awhile now
I’m also a big Lee fan and I understand how much he means to this team but I also think it’s better for he and the Cubs if Pinella considers moving him down in the line-up-at least temporarily.
Personally, I’d love to see Sori in the three hole but, as others have pointed out, that’s probably just a pipedream. I’m not comfortable with DeRo in the three spot on any kind of a regular basis but, at some point, you have to try something else.
by bluekoolaide on
Jul 22, 2008 8:39 AM CDT
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I 100% agree with you on Aram and Fuku...
When Soriano comes back, MOVE FUKUDOME BACK TO THE #5 spot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And in all honesty i half agree with you on Lee, he is technically a number 2 hitter, Aram is a 4 and Soto is more of a 3.
(FYI – best pure hitter should batt 2 not 3) All around hitter batts 3.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 8:36 AM CDT
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* i dont know why i added....
a “t” twice to bats.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM CDT
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Soto could work...
He’s got better slugging percentage than Lee. However, I think this is just a slump.
DeRosa is a joke in the #3. Soriano likes the leadoff too much and he’s not a pure hitter by any stretch.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM CDT
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Why would you want to take
a rookie, having a terrific season, and put more pressure on him?
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:40 AM CDT
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I've been dying to see Dome back in the #5 spot
He’s sucked ever since he moved out of that spot.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on
Jul 22, 2008 9:11 AM CDT
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really dont get this
fukudome is slumping, he has slugged worse than even most of the pessimistic projections at .406. while would it be a wise move at all to put him in the #5 hole to protect ramirez??
soto needs to hit #5. let fukudome hit #2 where he will see better pitches to hit, and will hopefully get back in the groove of being an on-base machine, exactly what you are looking for in the two hole, not from a #5 hitter.
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on
Jul 22, 2008 9:48 AM CDT
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he WAS an on-base machine....
he is NOT an on-base machine any more. Aram is slumping horribly. Something needs to change, the lamp wasnt broken when it was Aram 4 Fuku 5, it became broke when Fuke went to 2.
Look at his splits batting 2 vs 5. HUGE DIFFERENCE….
Batting average is 171 points lower (.316 vs. 145), OBP is 210 points lower (.427 vs 217) and the OPS is 422 points lower (.893 vs 471). I think we know what to do.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 10:05 AM CDT
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Good Work Higgy!
The numbers sure make the case for returning Dome to the fifth spot. Will be interesting to see if Lou goes Soriano/Theriot/Lee/ARam/Dome/EdMo/Soto/DeRo/P once Alfonso is back.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 10:08 AM CDT
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Is it the spot in the order?
Or is it the timing? It is very possible that Fukudome’s numbers have fallen simply because pitcher’s have figured out how to pitch him, and that he would have had the same atrocious numbers had he been in the #5 spot over the last month.
It could be that switching him in the order made that much difference, but I have trouble believing it. Fukudome seems to professional a hitter to be affected by something like spot in the order. Hopefully you’re right though, because when Soriano returns Fukudome will likely drop back down in the order. I’d rather it simply be the spot in the order than fatigue or having been figured out.
by SouthernCub on
Jul 22, 2008 10:11 AM CDT
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Well then....
if pitchers figured him out in a half of a season – we do not have the player we thought we were getting.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 10:49 AM CDT
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I don't think the two things...
...are mutually exclusive (or inclusive?). Anyway, the league figures out every good, new hitter eventually (except for maybe Ryan Braun, dammit) – it was bound to happen. The question now is whether and how Dome will make adjustments to get back some of the success he’s lost. I think he will. It’s far too early to write him off.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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You have to remember...
...he is new to the league and teams have mastered the first round of adjustments with him. Everybody has a hole or two in their swing, and I think he is good enouph to make the adjustment.
I also think his issue is part emotional burnout. He has been followed all year long by a hord of media, and they put the magnifying glass to him everyday. He is too good a hitter to not heat up again, and I think he will finish on a positive note.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on
Jul 22, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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Not necessarily true...
Nearly every hitter goes through an adjustment period coming to the majors. Unless you’re Albert Pujols (and have no holes in your swing at all), MLB pitchers figure out a way to pitch to you. The really good hitters correct for that and make the necessary adjustments, but most hitters struggle at some point. Fukudome appears to be going through that.
It may be that he simply isn’t going to be the hitter some thought he was. Or it may be that he simply is in the period in which the pitchers have the advantage and he needs to make those adjustments.
by SouthernCub on
Jul 22, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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His adjustment
seems to be to be more aggressive at the plate. He is swinging at the first pitch a lot more now than earlier in the season. The problem is that he is swinging and missing at the first pitch a lot.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jul 22, 2008 11:06 AM CDT
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so...
you’re saying that if he continues to hit #2 hed keep hitting .145 all year there? this just is not a large enough sample size. it is more likely that if he is given equal at bats in the two spots in the lineup that his .145 in the two hole would go up, and the .316 in the five hole would go down.
despite his slump, he still has a .377 obp. he is best suited in the #2 hole period. ESPECIALLY with a .406 slugging percentage. is that honestly what you want to protect aramis with?
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on
Jul 22, 2008 10:19 AM CDT
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Is Fukudome an on base machine?
Like you stated or isnt he?
Lets assume a perfect work, Aram at the number 4 spot his a home run every time up. Soto batting 5, another slugger, what does he get to drive in? Solo shots? by batting fukudome 5th you are spreading the line-up out much more than you are batting 2nd. Theriot batting over 300 is not a number 8 guy, or even 7. him getting on base is a waste at 7 or 8, better suited at 2. balance is the key to the line-up.
Fuku batting 5 is balance.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 10:24 AM CDT
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soto as the #5
is my response to an aramis slump, and to others conclusion that aramis slump has coincided with moving fukudome down. you cant just assume a perfect world and think that aramis will hit one out everytime, im not sure why you would do that. in a normal world, if the 2 or 3 hitter is on base when aramis comes up, a pitcher is going to have to go after him rather than walking him only to face another slugger in soto.
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on
Jul 22, 2008 11:06 AM CDT
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Disagree about # 2 hitter
A # 2 hitter must give him self up for the good of the team. (ie safrice, hitting behind runners.
Lou is never D Lee to bunt.
There is more of a problem at the # 4 hole. 0 for 28-9 & 0 for 20 just doesnt cut it.
by cubbierc on
Jul 22, 2008 12:50 PM CDT
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What?
I dont even know how to answer this.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 1:55 PM CDT
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You answered properly.....
Well, HUH? would have been as correct. Cbbierc, Rami IS our 4 hole hitter. His lifetime average 7th or later is right around .375 with POWER.
The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound
by crazymountain on
Jul 22, 2008 1:57 PM CDT
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C'mon now, say it with me...
Lou is never D Lee to bunt.
Words to live by.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 2:09 PM CDT
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That was my senior quote.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 2:55 PM CDT
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Lee & Ramirez
have been really disappointing in the last 2 or 3 weeks. Lee’s plate discipline has been horrible. When I think of what makes him successful, it’s his ability to wait for HIS pitch, not pitchers pitches. All those DP’s, or most of them, are due to pulling outside pitches, or hacking at the wrong pitches, IMO.
Just a bit of a blip, hopefully. I hadn’t realized that they were only 2.5 up when Soriano got hurt. Give you some perspective.
Brewers and Cardinals are charging pretty hard, though.
Demp and Rich: proof that people that live in igloos and say "eh" can contibute!
by Canadian Cubs Fan on
Jul 22, 2008 8:24 AM CDT
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Derrek Lee isn't the superstar I lot of us label him to be
Rather he is a good overall baseball player. He converted one outstanding season into somehow being classified with the elite run producers in the National League. But in the National League Central alone there are three other 1st baseman I’d rather have hitting in my lineup.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on
Jul 22, 2008 8:29 AM CDT
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i would take....
8 DLee’s to play all positions.
And there is no way you have 3 all around better first basemen. DLee is not a DH, he plays in the field too.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 8:31 AM CDT
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Reading is fundamental
Any objective panel of experts would pick Pujols, Berkman and Fielder as hitters over Lee. There is no debate that Lee is a good baseball player. And a very fine defensive 1st baseman.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on
Jul 22, 2008 8:33 AM CDT
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Fielder?
Really? Come on that is silly.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 8:37 AM CDT
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Fielder is 23/24, with mounds of upside.
by sackings108 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:53 AM CDT
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And mounds of everything else
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:54 AM CDT
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And a horrible defensive 1st baseman
I have personally seen balls he’s booted and scoops that DLee does in his sleep.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:55 AM CDT
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How does he have mounds of upside?
Are we making assumptions or are we going off numbers? There is more to hitting than Home Runs.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 8:58 AM CDT
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He said as hitters, and yes those 3 are better hitters than DLee
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:55 AM CDT
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I wouldn't say Fielder is a better Hitter than Lee.
Homerun hitter, Yes. But all around hitter, No.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:56 AM CDT
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The most surprising stat
Everyone loves to comment on Fielder’s size. He has only 9 GIDP’s. He does drive the ball more. He doesn’t hit those tailored made DP balls that unfortunately Lee has done a lot of this year.
By the way, it looks like the NL record for GIDP is 30 by two catchers Ernie Lombardi and Brad Ausmus. The major league record is 37 by Jim Rice. Unfortunately, the NL record is in jeopardy.
by rlpete on
Jul 22, 2008 9:29 AM CDT
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Fielder usually Hits with the bases empty
Cause Braun drives them in the at-bat before. Braun 71 Rbi… Maybe that’s why he has only 9 GIDP.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on
Jul 22, 2008 9:35 AM CDT
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and Lee hits with
Mr. Singles-Machine-But-I-Can’t-Run-The-Bases Riot in front of him.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 10:47 AM CDT
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asinine
no amount of running ‘skill’ is gonna break up a DP with the perfect grounders lee’s been serving up.
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on
Jul 22, 2008 10:49 AM CDT
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I'm just saying
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 10:50 AM CDT
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your just saying
just to say, there is no actual hard evidence that shows you that Theriot is the reason DLee keeps grounding into DPs
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on
Jul 22, 2008 10:51 AM CDT
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didn't say it was.
when a batter slumps into hitting grounders, his DP numbers go up if there’s someone consistently on base in front of him.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 10:51 AM CDT
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So your saying that Theriot needs to stop hitting singles?
I dont get it, oh well
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on
Jul 22, 2008 10:53 AM CDT
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it would be nice
if he could maybe steal a base. Hit a few more doubles.
But no, I’m not blaming Theriot. I’m just saying that that stat is driven up by his high OBP. Really, it’s a compliment, actually.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 10:54 AM CDT
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gotcha
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on
Jul 22, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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exactly. If he could hit anything more than a single,
he would be much more valuable.
by princefieldersdiet on
Jul 22, 2008 10:55 AM CDT
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Right
but you can’t blame the ensuing double play on Theriot’s lack of XBHs or steal attempts.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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unbelievable
When DLEE struggles, some how blame falls on Theriot, who gets on base consistently…. that really is unbelievable
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on
Jul 22, 2008 10:57 AM CDT
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You could ask him
to K a lot more. That way Lee won’t hit into as many DP’s. If that’s what you’re so concerned about.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on
Jul 22, 2008 11:02 AM CDT
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It would be nice if
Theriot hit something other than singles, but then again . . .

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on
Jul 22, 2008 10:57 AM CDT
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Well....
think about it – last night Theriot should have let the ball hit him.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 10:51 AM CDT
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Then he would have been out.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on
Jul 22, 2008 10:57 AM CDT
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he was going to be out anyway
and maybe he breaks up the double play.
But then Rami’s grounder would have been it anyway. Who knows?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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haha thank you
Theriot could hit say 10000 HR in a year, and people would say he hits too many HRs at like an untimely time or something, I just dont get it
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on
Jul 22, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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in order for him to hit
untimely home-runs…
he’s have to hit timely ones…
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 10:59 AM CDT
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If only he'd take lessons from...
Fontenot?
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
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Im saying if he did
people would find a reason to bitch… the best OBP guy we have had in a loooooong time, people on here are baseball blind sometimes and just stick with their argument against him even though they have been proven wrong over and over again… there have been many greats that focused on drawing walks and getting base hits
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on
Jul 22, 2008 11:02 AM CDT
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I'm not blind to anything.
He gets on base a lot.
He also misses a lot of balls in the infield, and is a terrible baserunner.
Riot is not to be numbered among the “greats”.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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But he's not a detriment to our team
despite what the popular opinion is around here.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:04 AM CDT
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I disagree.
but that’s ok.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 11:05 AM CDT
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You know it.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:07 AM CDT
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It certainly isn't popular opinion.
There are only a few of us that feel he is a detriment. That doesn’t make us baseball blind, rather, I’d argue it makes us baseball enlightened.
by princefieldersdiet on
Jul 22, 2008 11:07 AM CDT
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I agree
but he is a huge reason why in the first half of the season we scored as many runs as we did, he is obviously doing much more good then bad, if a storied coach like Lou Piniella likes him as much as he does, continuously putting him in at 1st base. Would you rather have Alex Gonzalez from a while back who was a great glove(except against Florida when it counted) but hit for shit, or would you rather have a slightly very slightly below average infielder and base runner who is an amazing OBP guy… yes amazing OBP guy?
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on
Jul 22, 2008 11:06 AM CDT
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haha I wrote 1st base
I meant SS obviously
"This balls got a chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannce, GONE!" - Pat Hughes
by SouthsideCUBSfan on
Jul 22, 2008 11:08 AM CDT
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Baseball blind?
I’d recommend a Baseball seeing-eye dog.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on
Jul 22, 2008 11:14 AM CDT
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Put me in, coach.

Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 11:23 AM CDT
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Some lady signed that ball!
It said “Baby Ruth” or something.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:24 AM CDT
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You're killing me Smalls.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on
Jul 22, 2008 12:03 PM CDT
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Juan Pierre-2006
Over 200 hits, 58 stolen bases, could actually field his position. Sorry, I didn’t like him and I don’t like Theriot.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jul 22, 2008 11:43 AM CDT
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That was easy.
Juan Pierre just collected a paycheck when the season was on the line. After the team fell way out of contention, he started making contact, getting on base and stealing.
As for Theriot, he can get on base. Unfortunately, he’s like an NBA player that can’t create his own shot. Theriot’s offensive value is only realized if the players behind him move him around.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 11:54 AM CDT
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Which makes his offensive value nil.
A guy like that needs to be able to steal bases.
by princefieldersdiet on
Jul 22, 2008 11:55 AM CDT
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Good analogy.
True, Theriot relies on others to advance him/bring him home. In his defense, though, you can’t blame him when those behind can’t do that when he’s done his part by getting on base.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:56 AM CDT
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right - but...
1 out not 2.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
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Then Rami's grounder is the DP.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:01 AM CDT
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that is just a forecast.
You dont know that would be the end result.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 11:03 AM CDT
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A butterfly flaps its wings...
It’s ingrained in baseball players to avoid the ball on the basepaths because it means OUT. In that situation their instinct is to get out of the way.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:06 AM CDT
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Fielder is NOT a better hitter than Lee. Period.
However, DLee is turning himself into a truly bad hitter. He has lost plate discipline, swings at that low-outside slider trying to pull it rather than hit it. Same with Kosuke, he isn’t patient anymore, his strikeouts have gone way up. Rami? I think he is trying to make up for the rest of the teams failings at this time.
Bottom line is we NEED Sori in that leadoff position. Kosuke batting 5th protected by Soto and Edmonds. DeRo has done well hitting eighth and we have a pitching staff that can at least handle the bats. And, DLee has to flip that switch and learn how to hit the DLee way. Maybe he should make a video, then buy it…...He HAS to start thinking up there. Right now, I say sit him down, put Hoffpauir at first for a couple games. Maybe rest Rami as well, using DeRo at third. WonderHamster can hold down second base. It is not a felony to sit two slumping stars at the same time
The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound
by crazymountain on
Jul 22, 2008 1:45 PM CDT
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Brewers charging hard?
They are 35-19 since May 20, the NL’s best record. And, 4-0 on this 7 game road trip. Yes they are charging hard. Those 4 games next week against them will be pretty big. We need that august schedule with 19 home games and 9 road games to get here soon.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on
Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM CDT
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Enough of Howry and Eyre --
Same guys from different sides of the mound -
When they suffer in the early part of the year, they cry is - they’ll do better in the second half.
This year as far as Eyre is concerned was a better start and an apparent turn for the worse just before he went on the DL. Questions about his value to the team are answered by the following - the lack of urgency to get him off the DL.
As for Howry - almost always a slow starter. Then he would pick it up in June and go from there. This year - nothing. When he can’t get his breaking pitches over the plate, his less than advertised fastball gets hammered. I shudder every time he enters a game. He is no longer what he once was.
Just ask yourself this - based on performance to this date, would you keep them in 2009? If not, why keep them now? Their contracts are ending and we have no long term financial commitment.
Who would replace Howry? Ask Hendry - it’s his job to find someone. As for Eyre, he’s already gone in that he is on the DL.
One last thing - does Ward fall into this same category? He has done absolutely nothing all year when he wasn’t on the DL. There are 10 weeks left in the season. I do not think that this is the time for “let’s give him time to return to his old form.” Move on and find someone else to take his role.
by ceegeewow on
Jul 22, 2008 8:27 AM CDT
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Chad Gaudin should replace Howry.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:32 AM CDT
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Loud SUSTAINED applause (LSA for short)
I’ve gotten to the point now that when Howry comes in , I EXPECT him to give up a run.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on
Jul 22, 2008 8:44 AM CDT
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Since June 10...
... Howry has allowed 19 hits in 15.1 innings over 17 appearances, 9 earned runs and 7 K’s, for an ERA of 5.28 during that period.
I’m usually a defender of most players on this team, but this is ridiculous. Howry appears just about done.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:48 AM CDT
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Howry is strictly a mop up man at this point
Need to play out the contract with Howry and Scott Eyre and move on.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on
Jul 22, 2008 8:51 AM CDT
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Agreed
Howry needs to be demoted to garbage time, with Gaudin taking his spot. If Howry can get his shit together, then maybe move him back to this role, but until he starts pitching well, he should not be in a game after the 7th innning.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on
Jul 22, 2008 8:53 AM CDT
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+1
Unless Howry can stage a pretty stunning comeback, Gaudin is his replacement.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 10:10 AM CDT
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+1
Excellent idea..
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jul 22, 2008 12:00 PM CDT
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I Agree!!!
Howry has lost his fastball, his velocity is down 4 – 6 MPH. Now that wouldn’t mean a lot normally but his slider is just a wrinkle. He needs to be a power pitcher to succeed and he just isn’t that anymore. Last year was a different story. I think it is time to set him to mop-up the blow-outs.
The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound
by crazymountain on
Jul 22, 2008 1:48 PM CDT
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I cringe when Howry
comes in and usually end up crying when he’s done. I was hoping he’s turn things around but…..
Lou should put Gaudin in instead of Howry. Should but will he?
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
by sue369 on
Jul 22, 2008 3:52 PM CDT
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Well, how many innings has Lieber had this year?
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 3:57 PM CDT
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Yusmeiro Petit pitching tonight for the Dbacks.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7699
Only his 2nd start his year, but he pitched well vs the Brewers last time out.
He’s a righty, so the LH lineup tonight.
(Funny, that Fonzie is 4-6 lifetime against him…..hmmm)
Nobody cares about your fantasy league team
by carmen_fanzone on
Jul 22, 2008 8:28 AM CDT
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I am pretty frustrated right now
What’s worse is that the Cards and Brew have came out of the break hot. But I guess they have only made up 2 games in that span.
The worst thing about the DLee dp was that it was on a 2-0 pitch. It has to be in your wheelhouse to swing and it sawed him off at the hands. Frustrating.
Hopefully the Brewers are peaking now and fall into a bad slump soon.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:28 AM CDT
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I dont get it....
Al i understand you liked the Fukudome move up in the order, but it seems that since that move has been made, Fukudome looks horrible and so does Aramis Ramirez. I would go back to the original lineup when Soriano comes back. It seems to be more effective for all players considered.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 8:30 AM CDT
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I did like that move.
But it doesn’t seem as if it helped Fukudome, I think he put too much pressure on himself. I agree, go back to the lineup that was winning when Soriano comes back.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:33 AM CDT
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Yes, I liked Kosuke moving up....but it hasn't worked
So fix it.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on
Jul 22, 2008 8:34 AM CDT
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A lot of us, myself included, were calling for Kosuke to hit at the top
Obviously we were wrong-if most of his problems stem from that, then it’s an easy fix once Sori comes back.
by bluekoolaide on
Jul 22, 2008 8:42 AM CDT
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i dont see
how we can make that conclusion, just because he went in a slump doesnt mean it was just because he was moved up in the order. in fact that seems one of the least likeliest reasons for him to struggle. #2 is the best spot for him in the lineup.
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on
Jul 22, 2008 9:57 AM CDT
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How so?
Justify it, ALL of his numbers are horridly down since moving to the #2 spot. I posted to your other post with the stats, there is no comparison, he needs to bat 5.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 10:08 AM CDT
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Could just be that he got figured out...
at about the same time he switched spots.
by SouthernCub on
Jul 22, 2008 10:12 AM CDT
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i cannot speak to that....
I really cant, cuz i dont know if he has ‘been figured out or not’. Throw a left at him though and he looks lost.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 10:40 AM CDT
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a lot of lefties are bad against lefty pitchers.
The problem is that Fukudome hasn’t been hitting righties either lately.
by princefieldersdiet on
Jul 22, 2008 10:41 AM CDT
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im sorry, just not buying it
its not logical at all, it is much more likely that it is a coincidence. in the two hole he has better protection, and that is really the only difference between the two spots in the lineup. it could be argued that there is MORE pressure as a #5 hitter who is expected to drive in runs than for a #2 hitter who is expected to get on base.
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on
Jul 22, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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What about the decrease in...
Arams production? Coincidence again?
Fuku use to be a #3 hitter, i think he would welcome the pressure that you speak of in the #5 hole. the #2 spot is more of – get on base type thing.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 10:20 AM CDT
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ha yeah honestly i think it is
simply because fukudome is not a menacing threat at the plate that a pitcher will give into aramis just because dome is back there. soto presents much more of a power threat and would protect aramis better than fukudome. i dont think you can argue with that. soto > fukudome as a #5 hitter, and as protection.
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on
Jul 22, 2008 10:22 AM CDT
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Right -
But if you have 2 no one on. You pitch around Aram, now you have Fukudome up, i would like to think the chances of getting a runner to second is increase (meaning Fukudome can extend the inning), thus making it possible for Soto to drive in a run.
Or vice versa, you go 1,2,3 in the first, now you have Aram leading off, Fuku batting second, and increasing Sotos chances of driving more runs in.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 10:45 AM CDT
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this logic makes sense
but id still rather the high obp guy in the 2 hole and the slugger in the 5 hole
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on
Jul 22, 2008 11:04 AM CDT
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Why bunch up the power hitters?
They HAVE to have someone to drive in. Ok, you have your power at 3, 4 and 5. They all hit homeruns. Then what? I think 5th is a great place for Kosuke as (and I know I am in the minority here) Sori belongs in that leadoff spot. Come second time through the order, you have Theriot coming up with two men on? Hmmmm
And, the reason that the BEST of your hitters bats third is that maximizes his AB’s during a game, as he is assured to hit in the first inning. Now, someone please find DLee? He has been MIA for awhile now….
The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound
by crazymountain on
Jul 22, 2008 1:55 PM CDT
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Nicely said.
I agree with you.
Soriano leading off balances the team – and that is what you look for in a line-up.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on
Jul 22, 2008 1:57 PM CDT
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look at it this way
aramis is second on the team in walks. a high obp guy like that should be in front of another power guy, not in front of a slap hitting on-base guy. thats what the two hole is for. as the best bunter on the team, thats even more reason for fukudome to hit second.
Soriano - Dome - DLee - Aramis - Soto. If that doesnt turn you on you're not human.
by kylejo on
Jul 22, 2008 7:12 PM CDT
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Do NOT bring up Soriano
Before he is ready. This guy is injury prone and head case to boot. To advance the long-established plan is the definition of overreaction.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:30 AM CDT
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What, one day early?
What “long-established plan” is that going to ruin?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:34 AM CDT
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Truthfully,
Why doesn’t the organization let Soriano hit in the simulated game Guzman is throwing today, see how it goes and let him play tonight if it goes well. Mix in a little work in LF and shake up the lineup.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM CDT
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That's what I would do.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:39 AM CDT
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To define Soriano as injury prone and a head case is the
definition of overreaction. A pitch hit his hand. If he’s healed and doesn’t hurt, let it fly.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:34 AM CDT
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Head case?
What on earth are you talking about?
by salparadise23 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:35 AM CDT
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He has to bat leadoff or else
That’s what I’m talking about. The guy is too fragile mentally to mess with the plan.
We’ll survive one more day.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:36 AM CDT
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I ask again, what plan?
This team is treading water without him. They need a jump start. There’s your jump start.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM CDT
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The plan to bring him back on the 24th
The team has lost a half-game off the lead without him. If they lose tonight, they will lose 1 1/2 games without him.
And that’s in the face of a Zambrano injury and horrid slumps by Fukudome and DLee.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:39 AM CDT
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I'll tread that water any day
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:40 AM CDT
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Yabbut...
... they need him NOW. I ask you again, how does bringing him back two days early (and it may be only ONE day early as they may bring him back to play tomorrow vs. the LHP Davis) hurt any “plan”?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:41 AM CDT
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Al, do you really believe
He’s going to do anything but go 0-4 with at least 2Ks in his first game back? I don’t.
Soriano will make a difference in two weeks. He won’t this week.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:42 AM CDT
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If it allows Dome to go back to where he is obviously comfortable and brings up the spirit of the team.
Why not bring him up.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:44 AM CDT
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So...
Let’s get that first game out of the way.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:44 AM CDT
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No...
I think bringing a guy back from injury before you had planned is a panic move.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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Ridiculous.
“Panic”? TWO DAYS EARLY?
The Cubs are 32-17 in games Soriano has started. They are 26-24 in all other games.
GET HIM BACK IN THE LINEUP!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:49 AM CDT
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Misleading, though
26-24.
Zambrano went on the DL during that time. Fukudome got figured out during that time. Wood got his blister during that time.
And the team lost a 1/2 game off the lead.
More happened to this team than just Soriano going down.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:53 AM CDT
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What does Soriano have to do in order for you to accept that he is an important part of this team?
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:54 AM CDT
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It's because he's important
That I want to be sure he’s ready before he comes back.
Period.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:55 AM CDT
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That's the point.
Fukodome is struggling and Wood is day to day. You can get Soriano back.
It’s a freaking broken bone. They estimated the 24th a couple of weeks ago. A day or two is nothing if he’s ready.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:55 AM CDT
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If we were talking about a normal player,
I’d agree.
But this is someone who is fragile mentally and physically AND someone the team has invested a lot of money in.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:50 AM CDT
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How is he mentally fragile? What has he ever said that makes you think that.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:51 AM CDT
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Playing Devil's Advocate
DaBard might be referring to the whole notion that Soriano isn’t comfortable batting anywhere except leadoff. And possibly his skittishness around outfield walls.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:04 AM CDT
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Maybe, but...
... haven’t we gone over those things about 15,000,000 times already?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 9:29 AM CDT
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Yes, and because we have
I will add no more to this particular topic.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:29 AM CDT
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We're talking about a guy...
who went on the disabled list for the first time in his career last year. If the hand is healed, it doesn’t make sense to play him at AAA, when his bat is needed in the big league team’s line-up.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on
Jul 22, 2008 9:16 AM CDT
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you've no idea
what he’ll do. And if he’s going to make a big difference in two weeks, don’t we want to get started on that 2 weeks now?
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 10:52 AM CDT
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He has to bat leadoff because that is where he has been best in his career.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM CDT
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This has been covered repeatedly
He only is certain to lead off once a game.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:39 AM CDT
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Plus, the last time Sori came off the DL
he started hitting pretty quickly-it was his defense that was atrocious. The way our offense is right now though, I’ll definitely roll the dice and bring him back asap.
by bluekoolaide on
Jul 22, 2008 8:44 AM CDT
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Exactly.
Anyway, his defense is an adventure on the best of nights. Hence, he plays LF.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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"Leading Off Once A Game"
I get what you’re saying here. However I would counter by suggesting that it’s more a matter of having your best OBP guys ALWAYS batting in front of your best OPS guys, regardless of how the lineup shakes down during the game.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:18 AM CDT
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True.
That is the traditional way of a manager structuring the lineup, though I don’t believe that has any bearing on Soriano’s approach at the plate.
Soriano’s production has proven out to be better when he bats leadoff. I don’t understand it either, but go with what works.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 9:27 AM CDT
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With Soriano > Without Soriano
Let’s get him back and in the lineup!
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:29 AM CDT
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What?
He prefers hitting leadoff. Why is that a headcase? Do you think Lee prefers batting 3? Soriano has never said he must hit leadoff. Piniella has even said he prefers him there.
by rlpete on
Jul 22, 2008 8:53 AM CDT
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Just An Opinion, But
if you were to get a candid answer from Soriano, he would tell you that he in fact has to hit leadoff for him to feel comfortable. Not condeming him for feeling this way – just what I think he would honestly tell you without a bunch of reporters around.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:06 AM CDT
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But that doesn't imply headcase
I agree with you. I’m sure a lot of players have situations where they are more comfortable. A lot of people are now posting that maybe Fukudome should be moved back to the #5 spot. I don’t think that implies headcase either.
by rlpete on
Jul 22, 2008 9:11 AM CDT
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Totally Agree With You
“Headcase” conjures up visions of Jimmy Piersall and that Braves’ minor league manager that crawled to the mound and threw the rosin bag like a grenade. With Soriano and other major leaguers it’s a matter of being mentally comfortable. I myself don’t quite understand it, but it is what it is.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:13 AM CDT
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I agree.
This term “headcase” gets thrown around too cavalierly. Baseball is hard. And, though I recognize there are legitmate arguments against doing so, putting a great hitter where he’s most comfortable is perfectly understandable.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 10:14 AM CDT
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god not this BS again.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 10:50 AM CDT
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A head case???? Just where does THAT come from? Maybe you were looking in the mirror?
The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound
by crazymountain on
Jul 22, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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I'm frustrated by the loss but.....
That performance by Harden was energizing. I’m glad we obtained Harden and happy we didn’t have to sell the farm to acquire him. I recall seeing reccomendations of including Veal, Vitters and Pie with the guys offered to secure him.
A-Ram is in one of this slumps. I prefer the streaks when Ram breaks out of them and with Fonz back, it’s time for one of Fonz’s streaks as well.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:33 AM CDT
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Indeed
Harden has got AMAZING stuff. If he can get decent run support, he will be huge in the second half.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on
Jul 22, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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True.
Luckily, perfect into the 5th, no-hitter into the 6th, 10 punch outs. Pitching like that doesn’t need much run support.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 8:46 AM CDT
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Not much, true.
But pitching like that does need more than zero runs.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:49 AM CDT
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Totally agree as well.
It was a privilege to watch Harden pitch last night – a privilege. And, just to echo something Al mentioned in the recap, I couldn’t help but start thinkin’ no-no around the fifth inning or so. He’s got one in him.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 10:16 AM CDT
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I became aware with the walk
in the 5th. When Len said something like “first base runner of the game,” realized he’d been perfect to that point.
PC load letter!?!? - What the f*** does that mean!?!?!
by N Oakley on
Jul 22, 2008 10:19 AM CDT
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GRACE
I watched on MLB – TV …... what a pleasure to listen to Grace do a game especially
with the Cubs…. very entertaining and I found out some things I didn’t know.
Wish we could trade the Len & BB show to AZ
by nimblenikelfoos on
Jul 22, 2008 8:34 AM CDT
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You must be joking.
Grace is the worst announcer for any local team. Period. Horrible.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:39 AM CDT
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Not so long as Hrabosky
is still drawing a check. But Grace is pretty bad
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 8:40 AM CDT
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Grace is very bad
There is an underlying smugness to him that I greatly detest. He lacks any sense of geniuness.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on
Jul 22, 2008 9:01 AM CDT
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perfectly said
+1
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on
Jul 22, 2008 2:50 PM CDT
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I disagree
Hawk and DJ are by far the worst.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on
Jul 22, 2008 11:22 AM CDT
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+1
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:24 AM CDT
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Yes!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on
Jul 22, 2008 2:06 PM CDT
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Dadgum right!
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 2:10 PM CDT
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Al,
I know you think that Grace is bad. So do I.
But, until you’ve heard Rex Hudler, you have no idea how to define “horrible”. For sake, I hope you never have to listen to him, because I value your sanity.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on
Jul 22, 2008 6:55 PM CDT
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Len and Bob are great, much better than most TV announce crews, and certainly better than
the team of Chip and Steve. Steve may have been good, but Chip was just so awful that the broadcast was impossible to listen to.
by sackings108 on
Jul 22, 2008 8:57 AM CDT
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I didn't have a problem with Chip.
Was he great? No. But I’ve heard far worse.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 9:04 AM CDT
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Chip Seemed Awkward At Times
but I met him in person once and seemed a nice man. Myself, I prefer Len – different strokes, I guess.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:09 AM CDT
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Chip was overly dramatic
And could be a bit smug. Like Cali, I met him in person once and he seemed like a decent guy—probably is. But I found him a bit too self-important as an announcer.
by Shanghai Badger on
Jul 22, 2008 9:21 AM CDT
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oh god this debate again....
and for once not started by me! get rid of BB, NOW…..talk about smugness! did you know i have a world series ring? did you know i used to catch for the giants?
and chip and steve were my favorite duo…..i wonder what a team of len and steve would sound like…..either way it’s obvious we all have different opinions on this topic
by cubswynn on
Jul 22, 2008 9:34 AM CDT
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"WS Ring" and "Former Giants Catcher"
Ah, you mean the two reasons Brenly is in the booth?
He’s allowed to discuss that.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on
Jul 22, 2008 9:38 AM CDT
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giants catcher is one thing
but bragging nearly EVERY game about your WS ring to a group of fans that hasn’t seen one in 100 years is frustrating
by cubswynn on
Jul 22, 2008 9:55 AM CDT
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I watch most games on TV
And I rarely recall any times BB brings up a WS ring? His catching experience, well I thought that was pretty relevant to being an analyst. And mind you, I loved Chip and Steve, especially Chip (I’m prob in the minority) but I’m a sucker for the dramatic.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on
Jul 22, 2008 10:23 AM CDT
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agree
I watched almost every game this season and have no recollection of BB discussing his WS ring.
What doesn't kill you makes you stranger -- The Joker
by Emelie on
Jul 22, 2008 10:32 AM CDT
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me either.
BB is very good to listen to. I think he is pretty smart and he teaches you things during the game. I have never heard him talk about his WS win, ever.
by huskercubby on
Jul 22, 2008 10:36 AM CDT
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I wanna say I've heard him discuss it...
...but only after Len has prompted him. He doesn’t just bring it up out of the blue. That’s not how he rolls.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 10:38 AM CDT
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Agreed
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
by sue369 on
Jul 22, 2008 4:03 PM CDT
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he just brought it up the other day
and this is ONE example that comes to mind over any others….but he went on about the duties of an allstar manager and how one is appointed to being the allstar manager (winning the pennant).....which he followed up by examples of his time as a allstar manager…...you can’t tell me he doesn’t love bringing up the fact that he has won a world series
and he should be proud of it, but it doesn’t mean i have to like listening to someone talk about another team winning the WS when my team hasn’t won it in 100 years
by cubswynn on
Jul 22, 2008 4:31 PM CDT
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Well, in that example...
...I would say he was addressing a very relevant topic at the time (i.e., being an all-star manager) and he was using his personal experiences to illustrate his point. I don’t have a problem with that.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 4:35 PM CDT
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It all depends on where you sit
from my side I enjoy hearing his personal experiences as a manager, it gives me insight into that part of the game from someone who’s gone through it and experienced the pressures. Personally, I think Bob’s down to earth and rather modest in his success.
We all read different messages from different people. That’s what makes our species so darned interesting. Or so we like to think ;-)
What doesn't kill you makes you stranger -- The Joker
by Emelie on
Jul 22, 2008 4:37 PM CDT
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Agreed
He has an insight into the game most of us don’t have. And like someone else mentioned, I’ve never heard him mention his WS ring unless prompted by Len.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jul 22, 2008 4:45 PM CDT
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when i said WS ring i didn't mean he physical ring
but the fact that he won a WS….but i agree with Emelie, there’s nothing wrong with a healthy discussion on this topic because it’s all relative and no one’s opinions are right
trust me, i wish i could agree with you all on BB, it sure would make the games a lot more enjoyable, but i just don’t
by cubswynn on
Jul 22, 2008 4:57 PM CDT
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The Kings of Self-Aggrandization
hands down are Dibble and Kennedy. Thanks to those two I cancelled my XM Radio subscription and opted instead for the premium MLB.TV package so I can hear Pat ‘n’ Ron.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:38 AM CDT
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You're being too kind
Dibble is just an a-hole. I work with a guy who used to live in the same neighborhood and pretty much confirmed that suspicion.
by Shanghai Badger on
Jul 22, 2008 9:40 AM CDT
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Kennedy Certainly Is A Self-Promoter
While Dan Duquette isn’t Mr. Congeniality, don’t think for a second that Kennedy was an innocent victim as far as what went down when he managed Boston in 95 and 96.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:42 AM CDT
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Oh, not promoting Kennedy
Just commenting on whack-job Dibble.
by Shanghai Badger on
Jul 22, 2008 9:43 AM CDT
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I Know You Weren't, SB
It’s just that I saw an opportunity to puncture the hot air balloon that is Kevin Kennedy. I tells ya, if he goes on ONE MORE TIME about his years as the Dodgers’ minor league coordinator and the Expos’ scouting director, or how he learned so much at the feet of Hank Peters and Earl Weaver…...
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:59 AM CDT
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Chip lost me early on
When Sosa popped out to McGwire to end a game in 1998 and he said “HOW APPROPRIATE IS THIS!!!!!” and then did it seemingly every time one of them was retired by the other.
I was not comparing Chip to Brenly or anyone else. I just didn’t think he was very good.
by Shanghai Badger on
Jul 22, 2008 9:39 AM CDT
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Too glib..
is the way I would describe Chip.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jul 22, 2008 12:09 PM CDT
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Len and Bob
do an excellent job at 99% of their game. The 1% I am not fond of is the Len homer call. Not as bad as the “Back back back back back back, gone!” Berman call, but still not great. Nothing like a Harry; “It might be, it could be, IT IS!!!!!! Holy Cow!!!!”
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jul 22, 2008 9:35 AM CDT
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how do you not like the voice crack?!
by cubswynn on
Jul 22, 2008 9:38 AM CDT
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reminds me of
those horrible puberty years I guess. lol
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jul 22, 2008 9:38 AM CDT
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Okay, I'll be horribly unpopular once more
Len Kaspar sucks. Sorry, but Chip Carey was much better. And that isn’t saying much. Every game Len goes off into this rambling tangents, many times right in the middle of the most dramatic parts of the ballgame. It can be tie ballgame with bases loaded and two men out and Len is off talking about the precipitation forcast for the Des Moines Cubs during their next homestand. Thankfully Bob Brenly is not bashful about slapping him back into reality.
Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!
by MDBNIU on
Jul 22, 2008 9:42 AM CDT
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Disagree.
I’ve never heard Len ignore critical moments in the game. He’s a smart guy who genuinely loves and respects the game. Your assessment is…
...lame.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 10:18 AM CDT
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+1
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
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What Are Their Podcasts Like?
Are they funny, informative, fluff stuff?
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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I'm a subscriber
and I enjoy them. There is usually a third guy , Bob Vorwall I think, that leads the podcast and asks questions to Len and Bob. Pretty much what you get on the air. Every once in a while they do something extra like interviewing the folks in the Wrigley scoreboard or a funny skit about “The new podcast studio” which turned out to be an almost empty condo near Wrigley where they both sit out on a deck to tan wearing silky velvety bath robes. They are short but if you feel like you can’t get enough Cubs talk, then definitely worth watching.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jul 22, 2008 9:53 AM CDT
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Thanks!
Might be a good excuse to finally purchase an iPod.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 9:54 AM CDT
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I wouldn't go that far!
(but there are plenty of good reasons to get an iPod/MP3 player).
(I like Len and Bob but have found the ‘casts to be lightwieght)
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jul 22, 2008 10:09 AM CDT
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I Was Keeding (A Little)
I’d rather have an iPod to take to the gym than a CD player. More flexible and lightweight.
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 10:12 AM CDT
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the video iPod is GREAT for the gym
and you can download cubs games onto it!
What doesn't kill you makes you stranger -- The Joker
by Emelie on
Jul 22, 2008 10:34 AM CDT
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A CD player, what's that?
I don’t know about you guys but this is what I use:

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on
Jul 22, 2008 10:43 AM CDT
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Is that one of the ultra cool ones
that lacks a rewind button?
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on
Jul 22, 2008 11:01 AM CDT
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LOL
I still have my yellow “sports” model laying around somewhere.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jul 22, 2008 12:15 PM CDT
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What Are These 'Cassettes'
you speak of?
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 2:41 PM CDT
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I've got one of those newfangled
victrola players. But I fear vinyl records will never catch on.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 22, 2008 3:09 PM CDT
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I'm a subscriber as well...
...and tony412’s assessment is right on the money. The podcasts are very short – less than five minutes, usually – but they’re a nice, quick snapshot of Len and Bob’s thoughts on the Cubs at the moment. Nothing particularly earthshaking, but cool to listen to once a week or so.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 10:20 AM CDT
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Entertaning how?
He always makes comments about the drought, last night AGAIN bringing up that Chicago would burn to the ground agian before the Cubs win another WS, then went onto say the that is actually what would happen in Detroit if they were to win the WS….. entertaining? Calling sliders fastballs and fastballs sliders, he stinks.
by becauseicare on
Jul 22, 2008 10:39 AM CDT
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- 1
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jul 22, 2008 12:08 PM CDT
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Team morale...
Anyone noticed that the team seems really down and un-energetic since the break? Someone mentioned last night how the Brewers dugout looked upbeat and everyone was laughing and talking to eachother. I did notice how most of our guys were just staring into space like zombies last night.
"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."
by CubsBullsBears on
Jul 22, 2008 8:37 AM CDT
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Teams never are as bad as they look when they're losing...
... nor are they as good as they look when they’re winning. Milwaukee has won 5 in a row. No wonder they’re happy.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Jul 22, 2008 8:40 AM CDT
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But If That's True
wouldn’t everyone end up finishing at .500? :-p
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 8:52 AM CDT
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I'd really recommend...
...NOT going down this road. Trying to judge teams by their body language, etc. generally leads nowhere. Of course the Brewers look happy – they’re enjoying a winning streak. Yet if the Cubs were laughing and joking while frittering away a one-hit performance by their new ace of a starting pitching, we’d all be screaming and yelling about how they don’t give a damn.
So they sit and look glum and frustrated (which they no doubt are to a certain extent), and we start admonishing them for being lifeless. I have no doubt that this team was working its ass off to score runs for Rich Harden last night. It just didn’t happen.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Jul 22, 2008 10:24 AM CDT
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This is why players hate fans
Would you rather have seen them playing grab-ass in the dugout while frittering away a gem from Hardin?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!
by DaBard on
Jul 22, 2008 10:34 AM CDT
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No...
How about some players on the dugout steps cheering for their teammates, some grabass-less enthusiasm. I’m not judging this team, I’m just making an observation that they seem lifeless since the break.
"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."
by CubsBullsBears on
Jul 22, 2008 12:21 PM CDT
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"Players Hate Fans"?
What happened? Did you overhear one of them speak? Did a player stiff you at a signing?
Eat More Katsui
by CaliCub on
Jul 22, 2008 2:45 PM CDT
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