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Offense: slump or sympthomatic

I'm really wondering if we have the kind of offensive players that can respond under pressure. What the offense is going through right now could just be a collective slump or it could be a sign of cracking under pressure. Given what happened in 2004 and in the 2007 playoffs I think it's a fair question to ask. The history of futility of the Cubs also adds pressure even if it's constantly played down by everybody. The 2003 championship series is a prime example.

I'm not trying to be an alarmist or blow out of proportion something that may just be a slump. But I have to be honest and say that I'm really wondering if these guys are going to be able to respond offensively under pressure. Today Ryan Theriot swong at 3 pitches out of the zone with a man on second and the game on the line. I have no faith whatsoever in Soriano. I don't know what to think about Lee and Ramirez, especially Lee which has not produced as we expected. Soto? Fukudome? Can these guys withstand the pressure to come? I'm really worried that the team will go back to hackalicious mode if the going gets though.

What do you think?

 

Poll
What the offense is going through right now is:
Just a slump that they will get out of
76 votes
A sign that they can't perform nearly as well under pressure
31 votes

107 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 57 comments

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The history of futility has nothing to do with it.

We know these guys can hit. They’ll hit. The pitching has been good enough to win virtually every game since the ASB (except maybe the 2nd game at Arizona).

It doesn’ t feel good to us and it likely doesn’t to the players, either. But they WILL get out of it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 26, 2008 8:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Two things

First: do you believe that the 2004 team failure to score at the end of that season was because of a mere slump or because those players couldn’t respond well to pressure? You know, swinging at more bad pitches, pressing, etc. Same question about last year’s team in the playoffs. I

Second: when I talk about history of futility I mean that if something bad happens then it can have a trickle down effect and cause more bad things to happen. We have not seen this nearly as much this year but I still worry about it.

by Luis on Jul 26, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a bit of both?

First…I certainly felt that the pressure got to the players in the playoffs last year and lead to a team wide slump….I also feel that the All Star Break actually led to a loss of momentum (which I am gutted about because I felt they needed the break and it would do them good)
That said…
Second…I think they will come out of it and the Brewers series could be a key series for them to turn it round in….I’d much rather have them go through this kind of team slump now while they still have plenty of time to battle back from it than have it happen in a crucial series in September.
I’m not so sure the “history of futility” is an accurate depiction of the pressure that causes a slump like this but I’m sure in can work for and against team morale on different occasions.

by kiwibob on Jul 26, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The 04 club...

...was basically a softball team offense and those types of teams can go cold for extended periods. What the offense is going through right now, will not last because the lineup is a little more balanced.

it may not be a bad idea for Lou to shake things up a bit, and I’m thinking dropping Lee to 5th or 6th to just give him a different feel.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 26, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The 04 team...

... failed because its closer blew up in the last ten days of the season. Remember? They were in the driver’s seat for the wild card and went 2-7.

This is a better team than the 04 team. I do think Lou won’t stand pat if this continues.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 27, 2008 3:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your right Al...

...but the offense went into vapor lock the last couple of weeks as well. That club was very one dimensional on the offensive side, and I don’t think would have survived the first playoff series even if they would have made it.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 27, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree With MPH

There seemed to be too many of the same type of hitter on the club (read: non base cloggers), and without a consistently sustainable attack the Cubs collapsed. That, and Dempster/Hawkins melting down against the Mets and Reds in the last week.

"Sometimes I feel like as a Cubs fan if I’m not worrying about something, I’m not doing it right." - HalfBlindCubbieGirl

by CaliCub on Jul 27, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

But THIS team isn’t that one-dimensional. That’s why this is just a slump. Every team goes through it. They’ll get out of it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 27, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still remember that no-namer who

hit the homer at Shea. I remember it clearly, I was leaving the Illinois/Purdue football game. You know who was the QB? Kyle Orton. You know who won the game? I dont remember I was listening to the Cubs IMPLODE. Lets not mention 04’.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Jul 27, 2008 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a slump

And I’d rather see it in July than September. The Cubs need a really good game tomorrow. Not one of those late inning 6 run games. A game where we lead by 2-runs and the bullpen keeps the lead. The team needs to feel like they can win any game every day again.

by ak123 on Jul 26, 2008 9:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree

Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.

by sue369 on Jul 26, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather not see it at all.

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 26, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)

by drewishdrewid on Jul 26, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Virtually everybody on this team

Wasn’t here in 2004, and many weren’t here in 2007.

This is a ridiculous thesis.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 26, 2008 9:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It would be one thing if it were just one or two players

but a team wide slump like this seems symptomatic of a goup of players who are pressing. Pressure affects teams-as we know from the many legendary collapses in baseball history. To pretend that it doesn’t is just delusional. Some teams manage to overcome it, some don’t. Of course the Cubs will start hitting again (I hope). My worry is that by the time they’re out of this slump, they’ll be far in the Brewers’ rear view mirror and, at best, fighting for the wild card.

by bluekoolaide on Jul 26, 2008 9:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I've liberal doses for most of my life, Bruce

but that doesn’t stop me from seing things as they are. How can anybody watch this team right now and feel positive?

by bluekoolaide on Jul 26, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're extrapolating a one-week slump

to a season-long titanic collapse. That’s why.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 26, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if you want to be completely accurate

ramirez is (hopefully) coming out of his second long slump of the month-something that i don’t think I’ve ever seen before from him. Lee hasn’t hit with any consistency since May-that’s the heart of our order right there and that’s what has me most concerned.
Hey, I understand that it bothers some people to have to listen to others complain-but sometimes it helps to vent to people who share the passion.

by bluekoolaide on Jul 26, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the pitching is near excellent.

the defense is very good.
the bats are starting to come alive.

I feel good about tomorrow. Today was a hard-fought game. The Marlins are a good team. I don’t project.

’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)

by drewishdrewid on Jul 26, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The bats are starting to come alive?!

Wait, are we talking about the same team? Four runs in the last 21 innings?

by bluekoolaide on Jul 26, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

did you watch the game today?

Lee and Aram both hit the ball fairly well early on in the game. It wasn’t great, but it’s almost there.

’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)

by drewishdrewid on Jul 26, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You see things as

you view them. Because you say you see things as they are does not make it so.

Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.

by sue369 on Jul 26, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thinking the last seven games are more characteristic

of players than the previous 95 is either stupid or extremely fatalistic.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 26, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.

by sue369 on Jul 26, 2008 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's all relative

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 26, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lee, ARam, Soto

Very cold since the ASB. Over the last 7 games:

ARam – OPS .299
Lee – OPS .559
Soto – OPS .342

Short of waiting for them to get hot again, best you can hope for is trying to add another 1B or C who can provide some pop. But without adequate trading chips (plus a reluctance by Hendry to add unless there’s an injury) a deal is unlikely. Unless you can give Mike Piazza a whopping dose of HGH and offer him a contract!

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 26, 2008 9:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Check Out The Following OPS

the past 7 days:

Lee .559
ARam .299
Soto .342

That’s the heart of the order right there. If they’re not producing, forget it.

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 26, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

OK...so post their career numbers...

So we know what we have to look forward to?....PLS

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 26, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shall Do...

Lee .867
ARam .837
Soto .859

My intent wasn’t to jump the ledge or take a bath with slit wrists. Just trying to illustrate why the Cubs have been scuffling of late. I think these guys will rebound – a good step in the right direction would be for them to stop pressing (assuming they are) and worry only about the current at-bat, not swinging at pitches out of the zone, taking what the pitcher gives them and going the other way, etc..

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 26, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats the great thing about baseball

....it all evens out.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Jul 26, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

TA

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 26, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

PS...

I know you were’nt…that’s why “I set you up”...for the positive post

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 26, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another Bat

JH told Carrie Muskat that, short of an injury, the Cubs won’t be looking to make a significant deal by the deadline. Some of it is the fact that the Cubs really don’t have any valuable trading chips they can afford to spare, or want to spare. And some of it is Hendry’s confidence that the ship will soon right itself.

The only way I would see another bat as being advantageous is that it would allow Lou to sit one of the producers like Lee or Fukudome if they’re struggling. Then once Lee/Dome get going again, you could either sit the new bat or put him in for another struggling regular.

Are there any “grade B or better” run producers that might still be available, were Hendry to change his mind?

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 26, 2008 10:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Question (not just for you but for everyone)...

... do you believe Hendry? Or was that comment misdirection?

I’m not taking a position here, just asking.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 27, 2008 4:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe him to the extent that's how he feels right now

I don’t see Jimbo as the type to sit in his office, concoct a nefarious misdirection scheme, and then go looking for the first gullible media type he can find to help launch it.

He should be confident that the ship will right itself. Enough talent is here to do so. That being said, I’m pretty sure he’s always looking, listening, and talking. So if the opportunity would present itself for another deal, significant or not, I don’t think he’d hesitate to pull the trigger if he thought he was improving the club.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jul 27, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha ha

“Nefarious misdirection scheme.” I rather enjoyed that…

"Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." ~Master Yoda

by Goodie1969 on Jul 27, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You never know...

...some of the bigger name deals (at the deadline) have come from no where.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 27, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

And Hendry will still be working not just up to but through the deadline until Sep 1. The “we might stand pat” line goes out there to prepare Cub fans who might get caught up in the trade deadline media frenzy.

What do I think is likely to happen? We probably make a trade or two after the deadline, but nothing big at the deadline unless another team drops something in our lap.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Jul 27, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You make a good point...

... about a POST deadline deal being a possibility. Up to August 31 you can still get players who are eligible for postseason play.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 27, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so we're talking about someone

who can spell Lee, Dome, or Ramirez when they go soft?

Mark DeRosa already plays for the Cubs. There’s not too many guys like him out there.

’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)

by drewishdrewid on Jul 27, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they are sitting ...how do they get it going again?

BTW…the cubs “abuse” the Des Moines to Chicago shuttle quite well…and you cant send either of those guys there…...and Hendry isn’t going to “let” Lou “sit” multi million dollar conracts….

Also…BTW…the Marlins announcers keeep carping on how their pitchers are getting the “BIG GUNS* out and gettting hurt bu the Blancos, Cedenos and Johnsons of the world…..

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 26, 2008 10:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's sort of like...

...hitting -control,alt,delete on your computer and gives a hitter a chance to clear their head.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 26, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree to a point...

But I believe what the previous post was saying is “bench-em”...not “give’em a day off”...

The best defense is a good offense

by kcjones on Jul 27, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes I feel like as a Cubs fan

if I’m not worrying about something, I’m not doing it right.

So I’m trying not to worry about the offense, b/c I feel like w/ our pitching we’ve been in all these games. We’ve hit all year and I’m trying to trust the first 90 game stretch more than the last 10.

So, have faith and hang in there like the rest of us.

I think it’s just his face. - dat cubfan daver

by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 27, 2008 2:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Going to Steal Your Quote

“Sometimes I feel like as a Cubs fan if I’m not worrying about something, I’m not doing it right.” Boy, does that sum things up.

Personally, I’ll take worrying about the Cubs being in a close pennant race every year …. so Milwaukee has pulled even: let’s find out who’s better over the next couple of months. July has been a tough month for the Cubs but things can and should get better with the fat home schedule in August.

If It Takes Forever ....

by wrigley1 on Jul 27, 2008 6:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Also Liked Your Quote

So much so that it’s now my new signature! :-)

"Sometimes I feel like as a Cubs fan if I’m not worrying about something, I’m not doing it right." - HalfBlindCubbieGirl

by CaliCub on Jul 27, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

darn, you beat me to it.

:D

’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)

by drewishdrewid on Jul 27, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aw. Thanks.

I think worrying is just the gift given to us from previous generations. Yankee fans got arrogance, BoSox fans got gloom & doom and we get the worry gene.

Just hang in there, the boys are trying. The good offense will be back (hopefully soon!!)

I think it’s just his face. - dat cubfan daver

by halfblindcubbiegirl on Jul 27, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hitting

it,s a damm shame that with all this good pitching they cant win games.im thinking we,ll get blown out by the brewers. no hit no win.these guys dont handle pressure as well as sox or yankee players do.but that,s why they,re winners and we,re not.

by NOMAR on Jul 27, 2008 7:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You hit the nail on the head!

DLee has 1 home run in the last month! ARam obviously has not has his mind on the game since he went home for those three days last month. Fukudome is showing why even a professional from another league is still called a rookie his first year in the bigs. This would be a lot easier to take if there was no collapse in the playoffs last year. Offensive shut downs are becoming a trend with this team. However, let’s see how they react in Milwaukee! I don’t want to hear that it’s just another game or series. We are only two games up on the wild card spot and tied for first. Make it or break it boys!

by HomerInTheGloamin' on Jul 27, 2008 8:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I don’t know what’s wrong with DLee, but he just doesn’t look to be a #3 hitter anymore. Now if only Lou would get the message. As for Aram-he’s generally our best clutch man but, yes, something definitely seems to be wrong there-two extended slumps in the same month are not indicative of the Ramirez we’ve known for the last five years.
I hope Fukodome’s problems are just a matter of making adjustments because otherwise we’re stuck with a 48 million dollar platoon guy.
The Milwaukee series is going to be huge. I’ll be happy with a split-but anything less and we’re going to be in trouble. On the other hand, we’re going to find out just how good we really are.

by bluekoolaide on Jul 27, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crisis of Confidence

Do MLB players ever go through a crisis of confidence during a slump, where they begin thinking “Maybe I’m no good anymore”? Never having been a professional or even a school athlete, I’m interested in the psychology of players and what they mentally face.

In what little reading I’ve done on my own, I gather that players at an early age are wired to “Never ever ever quit”. No matter if they’re hurt or enduring some other dilemma, they are conditioned to believe that taking yourself out of a game or suggesting being moved down (or out of) the lineup is the mortal sin of a loser.

Nevertheless I’m curious how often, if at all, an athlete goes through those long sleepless nights like most of us have and consider if they don’t have it any longer.

"Sometimes I feel like as a Cubs fan if I’m not worrying about something, I’m not doing it right." - HalfBlindCubbieGirl

by CaliCub on Jul 27, 2008 9:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's a very interesting question

and the only answer is probably that some handle pressure better than others-just like in real life.

In the book “Moneyball”, Billy Beane remembered that he first realized that, as great as his talent was, he didn’t have what it took to be a major leaguer because he found it too difficult to shake off a bad at bat-it would put him in too much of a funk that carried over to other areas of his game. Lenny Dykstra, on the other hand (who was his teammate at the time in AAA) would just shake off a bad at bat or a bad play in the field like it didn’t matter at all-which Beane equated as a major part of the formula for success in the majors.

I don’t find it hard to believe at all that some players let pressure affect them. Having to go out and perform such a difficult job under the intense conditions of a pennat race, has to be incredibly demanding.

by bluekoolaide on Jul 27, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that...

...is the main thought process in the struggling Cub’s players minds. It’s more about squeezing the bat a little tighter, because your not getting any hits and that can extend for a period of time before you can relax.

Remember one important thing; hot hitting can be cantagious, but it also works the opposite way. Baseball (especially hitting) is all about cycles of good and bad performance.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jul 27, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points. I can't disagree with anything you're saying.

Let’s just hope the Cubs get the message and relax a little bit before it’s too late.

by bluekoolaide on Jul 27, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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