Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Rickey Henderson Coming Back to A's? Bar-right-arrows



How to Be the Best Team in Baseball: Cubs v. Rays

There have been a lot of articles recently about how the Rays have unexpectedly become the best team in baseball, measured by won-loss records.  As I was reading two yesterday, what really struck me was how different the Rays' way and the Cubs' are.

Star-divide

First, a summary of what the Rays have done - the Rays biggest move of the winter was the trade of Delmon Young and Brendan Harris for Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett.  The trade added a pitcher with frontline potential and put the capstone on the shift the Rays had been working on even in 2007, the shift from being one of the worst defensive teams in baseball to being one of the best.  That defensive improvement lets starters get deeper into games and decreases the workload on the bullpen.  The 'pen is the other major place the Rays upgraded.  They brought in Troy Percival (FA) and Dan Wheeler (trading Wigginton) to cover the last two innings; amazing to say that bringing in those two, coupled with the rest of their 'pen being a year older has fairly well cut their bullpen ERA in half.  The last thing the the Rays have done over the past year is trust the talent their farm system has developed.  On May 11, Evan Longoria's AVG sat at .211.  Last year at the All-Star Break, Dioner Navarro (hitting .312/.366/.433 on the year) had an OPS below .500.  Trusting rookie talent and showing that trust even when the players look horrid has paid huge dividends for the Rays.

The Cubs contrast with this plan at nearly every point.  While the Rays opened a hole in RF to increase their overall defense, the Cubs biggest off-season goal was to add Kosuke Fukudome, increasing OF defense and providing a role model of the patient hitting approach which has become the team hallmark.  Whereas the Rays have gone from worst to best in defense, the Cubs have made the same kind of shift from least patient team to most patient team.  Both shifts were team-wide, but capped by moves involving star RFs.

The Rays traded their version of Ryan Theriot - Brendan Harris - an out-of-position SS whose surprising hitting earned him extended playing time.  They also took Akinori Iwamura, a player who could have the positional versatility of Mark DeRosa, and set him down in only one position, 2B.  As DeRosa has ranged all over the field playing 35 games at 4 positions other than 2B and Theriot has ranged hardly at all, missing grounder after grounder, the Cubs middle IF has struggled defensively even as they have shined offensively.  In the middle IF, the Cubs and Rays have gone in the opposite directions, as both Iwamura and Bartlett have disappointed offensively.

The Rays saw a link between their defensive improvement and their starters going deeper in the game.  While the Cubs have had two pitchers, Ryan Dempster and Carlos Zambrano, take steps forward in their game, every other starter from last year has regressed.  Jason Marquis' WHIP is up .10 points.  Ted Lilly's WHIP is up .16 points.  The improvements of Z and Demp look to be attributable to their conditioning and pitching approach.  Are the other pitchers suffering from the defense failing to make outs?

Just as the defense helping the starters trickles down for the Rays in a positive as their 'pen is used less, the Cubs 'pen has been used much more, particularly Carlos Marmol who appears to be wearing down.  While the Rays added arms to the back of their 'pen, the Cubs added several arms to the fringe of their 'pen, from Ascanio and Lahey to Fox and Takatsu. 

While the Rays have suffered through the growing pains of their rookies, the Cubs have instead sought cheap veteran help, getting great bargains out of Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson, just as they did last year with Jason Kendall.

In many ways the Rays and Cubs have gone in opposite directions, except in the most important way, both teams have gone the same way, racing towards the best record in baseball.

Poll
Whose way is better, the Rays or the Cubs?
  • The Cubs!
  • The Rays.
  • They're different ways for different clubs; neither is better; neither is worse.

  63 votes | Results

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs | Comment 10 comments

Read Related

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

Time will tell,

let’s wait until the end of the season for the answer.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Jul 3, 2008 9:14 AM CDT   0 recs

It seems

as if the Rays keep proving me wrong as each day goes by. They just swept the Red Sox, who all the “experts” predicted making a repeat of their championship (the same experts that said the Mets would run away with the pennant). I do believe however that they do need more of a veteran prescence in their lineup, besides Cliff Floyd.

In short, the Rays are a good team and I thought it would be a matter of time before they were good with getting top prospects year after year. I just never thought it would be now. But I’m not saying that they are better than the Cubs. These are two very good teams, and we have our weaknesses like they have theirs. I really love this Cub team and we’ll be even better when everyone is healthy and playing again.

"I wish I had a dollar for every time I spent a dollar, because then I'd have all my money back."
-Jack Handey

by deepthoughtsbyjackhandey on Jul 3, 2008 9:25 AM CDT   0 recs

I did forget that was one other thing the Rays tried to do;

get some veteran presence in Uncle Cliffy and Percival.

by DGU on Jul 3, 2008 9:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Percival has made a huge difference.

Not just by saving games, but by being sort of a second pitching coach, a veteran mentor, to that pitching staff.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Jul 3, 2008 10:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

While this has been a fun year to be a Cubs fan

it’d be nice to see the organization make a greater investment in preparing for the draft and player development. The Rays have a bright future ahead of them and it’ll be fun to see if they can keep churning out the talent to contend with the Red Sox.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jul 3, 2008 9:51 AM CDT   0 recs

I disagree on the whole premise

I voted option 3. Did you add that part of the Rays solution was to be very bad for many years and get numerous top draft picks and lose free agents and get more picks? The Rays should be compared to teams like the Twins which need to use their farm system to rebuild their team and frequently have off years like the Marlins. The fact that the Twins are in the race this year is a great story.

The Cubs are a large market team. They should be compared to the Red Sox who use their high payroll and farm system better than any other team. They are the best organization in baseball. They don’t hesitate to buy a player like Dice-K when they need to but also continually get an infusion of young talent to either play or trade to get what they need.

by rlpete on Jul 3, 2008 10:46 AM CDT   0 recs

Good argument, but here's why I disagree in part.

I agree with your latter point, that the Red Sox model is superb and that the Cubs need to learn from them especially re: use of the farm system.

Nevertheless, for me, the key issue is not the source of the 25-man roster as much as the defense/offense question (I see it somewhat like a guns-and-butter curve), which is not related to the large/small market question. The Red Sox also have decided to invest in defense up the middle as opposed to stocking all heavy hitters (granted, they hoped Crisp and Lugo would provide some hitting).

At this date, the Cubs are 2nd in RS, 1st in the NL. People are crying out we need to get another starter and another top reliever. I wonder, instead, if we upgraded the middle IF defense at the cost of the offense we get from those positions, then, on balance, we would improve all of the pitching. I’d still get a top tier pitcher if one was possible, but I think the ‘pen could fix itself if our defense saved enough runs that the starters could get into the late innings.

by DGU on Jul 3, 2008 11:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

I was focusing more on the source of the players and your comment about the Rays trusting their farm system. They had so many high picks that eventually some of them had to become good.

I do agree with your point on the Rays increased focus on defense. I haven’t seen enough to make a definitive assessment but from what I’ve seen on EI, Longoria looks like he might be a good defender too.

by rlpete on Jul 3, 2008 12:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Defense has a huge effect on the pitching staff

Look at how the Cards staff performed when they had solid(not the best, but good) defense. I believe that defense earned a piece of Carpenter’s CY YOUNG award.

"I'm not giving him a high-five ever again." - Sammy Sosa, joking about Moises Alou's personal habits

by MorePiePlease on Jul 3, 2008 2:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Rays are a heckuva good ballclub that is only going to get better

Evan Longoria and BJ Upton are going to be superstars in this league. Carl Crawford is an exceptional ballplayer in his own right, while Dionar Navarro is steadily becoming one of the best catchers in baseball. Add to that a resurrection project that turned into gold on Carlos Pena, plus a quality cast of veteran role players in Jason Bartlette, Akinori Iwamura, Eric Hinske… Big asset the Rays have going for them is excellent team speed. Speed never goes into a slump.

But the real reason why the Rays are doing so well and have a bright future is pitching. Their starting rotation is loaded already and they have David Price waiting in the wings in the minors. Their bullpen is also relatively deep and good. Troy Percival was an outstanding addition to that ballclub in ways that extend beyond the mound.

Pitching is KING. We don't add a frontline starting pitcher and a quality bullpen arm then this season will have yet another sad conclusion.

by MDBNIU on Jul 3, 2008 11:46 AM CDT   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

T206_brown_small
Minor League Wrap--August 20
Littlefoley_small
Sabathia stats and projections
T206_brown_small
Minor League Wrap--August 19
Cubs-5_small
One liners for overflow threads...
Small
Dolphins Stadium Entertainment during Cubs-Marlins Series

Recent FanPosts

Pinwheel-red-ani_small
Andrew Greeley at it again...
Doggie_small
A few things I'd be curious to know peoples thoughts on
Rnemanich1_small
And a stat you will see in the playoffs
Rnemanich1_small
A look back at how smart BCB GM's record
Small
Tremendous Story on Matthew Cerda
Dscf3765_small
Fun with numbers
Pkqe2jiw_1__small
Best food to bring in to Wrigley?
Small
Let's Talk About...Contracts

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

Recent Stories in Game Threads

Yelloncard_small
Overflow Thread 3: Cubs vs. Reds, Thursday 8/21, 1:20 CT
Yelloncard_small
Overflow Thread 2: Cubs vs. Reds, Thursday 8/21, 1:20 CT
Yelloncard_small
Overflow Thread 1: Cubs vs. Reds, Thursday 8/21, 1:20 CT

Google Ads

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Pat Hughes Calls Daryle Ward's Home Run

Recent FanShots

Vote Hank White MLB's 'Longevity Award'
Cubs Fourth-round pick Matthew Cerda on ESPN
Now This Was So Wrong 
But It Had To Leave A Mark
Isringhausen done for season....
Hurry before Youtube pulls it!!
MAGIC NUMBER This isnt diary/fanpost worthy but i dont think this s...
Umps not happy with replay proposal
Braun's injury...back again
Wilco Sings the Stretch
i was in the paper in '03 after the NLDS victory (im the one on the left)

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges

Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: August 19-24 Homestand
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: August 28-September 3 Homestand
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: General 2008 Season Requests

Editor-in-Chief

Yelloncard_small Al

Editorial Cartoonist

Toonmike_small toonmike

Photographer

Dsc_0139_small holy mackerel

ad

Site Meter