Ken Rosenthal reporting Cubs after Ibanez
by plenz on Jul 30, 2008 10:39 AM CDT
156 comments
Our favorite rumor site has the Cubs pursuing Ibanez. Not sure where he fits this club but you gotta like his stick. Thoughts
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It is a classic Hendry move
Ibanez is a good below an All Star player, where he is picking up on a trade effort that didn’t pan out, (I bet NYM are after Manny) and so he can make a deal. What would Seattle want?
Pitcher? Position player(s)? The only position players on the MLB roster that could be traded are Cedeno or Fonte…...I can’t see either being discarded.
Pitching, Marshall is not going, but could it be Hill? Veal? Hart? Ascanio? Hoffpauir? What is down in AA that might interest Seattle?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 30, 2008 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dont like this...
Although i like ibanez bat, i dont know what seattle would want, rumors when ariz was chasing after him, the mariners wanted too much. And with the presence that Edmonds has provided, unless he is a definite no go, the platoon with Johnson/Edmonds is a good one and 2 guys that i would not give up on.
by chrisn31584 on Jul 30, 2008 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually we don't know some things
Edmonds might have a knee that only allows him to play a couple days at best a week. He might have torn meniscus which is why he is getting swelling. Cubs don’t want to be caught flat footed. They can nurse Edmonds and even DL him for a while to relieve the swelling but he is always brittle.
The thing is have Edmonds in September and October….Ibanez would also look good as a DH
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 30, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why people think Raul can play center
He has played 2 games there his whole career and that was back in 2001.
He is a left fielder…and maybe sub right fielder when needed plus he is 36.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Jul 30, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm thinking that if they do indeed get ibanez
that they will move fukudome to center and ibanez in right
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I like that either
We would have taken our best outfielder and moved him to a position that he is not as solid at. Then, we would have our two mediocre outfielders in the corner. We would weaken our outfield defense considerably. As has been said many times, playing right field in wrigley is tough and Dome does it wonderfully…
If they gave up nothing for him…I guess I could be convinced but I think it will take something to get him.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Jul 30, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fukudome looks uncomfortable in CF
To me anyways, he doesnt seem to take as clean a path to the ball as he does in RF, plus his arm is more valuable in RF
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jul 30, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see them moving
Dome to CF. He was signed to play RF and didn’t Lou say earlier that he really doesn’t want to move Dome to CF?
Carlos Zambrano and Rich Harden. Now that's a pair of Aces.
by sue369 on Jul 30, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the point...
Moving Fukudome doesn’t make sense. And if you aren’t going to move Fukudome then acquiring Ibanez is an expensive acqusition for a pinch hitter.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you are going to say things like, "he might have a torn meniscus, which is why he's getting swelling",
or, “might have a knee that only allows him to play a couple of days a week.”; you need to cite this. Otherwise this is rumor, and irresponsible to even type.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 30, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry I am merely speculating BUT
since I have had extensive experience with bum knees to the tune of 10 surgeries…..SWELLING JUST DOESN’T HAPPEN BECAUSE IT IS A MOMENT ON THE CALENDAR….
Edmonds could have arthritis….he could have soft tissue damage like a the outside ligament, but the most common reason why swelling occurs from activity is a torn meniscus or small tears et cetera. I am not saying it is a rumor I am merely trying to deduce why Edmonds has not been in the lineup as often as he should have been and the report of his swelling.
This might be prompting the Cubs to seek a LHB OF’er for at least a month.
The other thing is one is assuming Ibanez would be a starter, I think he would be a platoon bench addition, what championship teams do.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 30, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two problems with that...
1. He’s kind of an expensive platoon bench addition;
2. He doesn’t have a good platoon partner, ESPECIALLY if you don’t think Edmonds is done.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The second of those problems is the bigger problem obviously
Because Ibanez is really a LF/1B/DH, and we aren’t platooning Soriano or Lee and we can have a DH for (at most) 4 games. If Edmonds is okay the rest of the way, then there is no role for Ibanez other than pinch hitting, and we already have a LH pinch hitter on the roster.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a problem with you speculating...
and I probably over reacted a bit. My apologies. However, there could be any of a multitude of reasons ED has swelling in the knee. For that matter, it could be just that he twisted it a little. From what we know, Jim is structurally healthy, and is not expected to miss considerable time. Ibanez, while he would be a good platoon bench addition, does not have a spot on the Cubs. There is no roster spot for him, even as a bench player. He is also too expensive. What the Cubs need is a player that can play both IF & OF, can be used when they need him & have a roster spot, (in Sept.), and can also be released if they don’t need him after Sept. A type of player that can doesn’t expect to start everyday, but has speed to suit Lou’s needs. A player like Ryan Freel.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 30, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bynum's available again.
j/k
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have FREEL
Randy Winn is another player that would be better, the trouble is, are they available?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Jul 30, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn should clear waivers after the deadline,
wouldn’t you think?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to argue
But, would it make it more concrete if someone else said “He might…”? Just saying, I think it was clear from his post that this was speculation.
by StevenABQ on Jul 30, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will kiss anybody on here's ass...
If Raul Ibanez becomes a Cub. He will cost considerably, he would be a poor option in right with Fuko poorer in center, and we couldn’t afford to carry Edmonds to play once in a blue moon. Edmonds has done nothing to deserve being cut and as a much cheaper- albeit offensively inferior option.
That said, I would be happy if it went through… but since I would have to kiss an ass now I would prefer that it did not.
by fanofthegame on Jul 30, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in addition...
in addition… if the bat is one thing we are after, there is a guy down in Texas on a one year deal. I dont know how good his glove is as he has predominantly been a DH in recent years, but Milton Bradley should be available. He is relatively cheap @ appx 4 mil and is hitting 320 with 19 hr 60 rbi and a .444 obp with a .592 slugging percentage..Texas is done in the west and has no shot of making the playoffs. Just a thought
by chrisn31584 on Jul 30, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i doubt Texas
Will trade anybody. They have put themselves in a nice position for the future. With some more pitching they will be pretty good.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jul 30, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true...
however bradley will be a free agent at the end of the season, and are in dire need of pitching help. Yes they have great young talent in kinsler, young, and hamilton, and blalock has shown some potential in recent years.i dont know if bradley is in their plans long term.
I just think if we are after a left handed bat pie is an in house option as stated below he has an ops of over 1.000 in the last month. And as stated this would put dome out of position in cf where he makes rf in wrigley look easy when its not.by chrisn31584 on Jul 30, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
So what kind of pitching help could the Cubs offer the Texas Rangers, matey?
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haven't you heard
we have Jason Marquis, Bob Howry, Scott Eyre, and Michael Wuertz
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chad Fox might get the deal done as well.
Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."
by Tate491 on Jul 30, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like
seattle has had very few bidders so I assume the price is low. If he comes cheap….why not? At the least he is insurance for the fragile Edmonds and you never know if Fonz will stay healthy. I say go for it….......and get a reliever while ur at it Jim
by plenz on Jul 30, 2008 10:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Does not make sense
Ibanez plays left and is left handed. He has played a few games in right and a few games a long time ago in Center…when he was not 36.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/i/ibanera01.shtml
If he was right handed…I could maybe see it as a platoon for Dome so that we could permantly keep Derosa at Second.
"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey
by TheRiot Police on Jul 30, 2008 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ibanez would make too many errors
if he was DHing in AAA.
The guy would only be a pinch hitter. The last I heard Seattle wanted two premium prospects for Ibanez and there is no way the cubs should to that just to upgrade the bench.
Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 30, 2008 10:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i think ibanez is a hell of a player
but you have to factor in some things.
I
f Edmonds can’t play for the rest of the season or whatever, you must make a deal.
Also, we all hear that right field might be the toughest right field to play in Wrigley, so would his offense be more productive than what I see as a detriment in left?
Would kosuke be comfortable in center?
I say if you can get him for not that much, make the deal because you’ll never know about edmonds.
Lastly, wouldn’t a trade make edmonds feel bad (if he’s actually healthy) because of how’s he contributed to the team and now the team brings in another player.
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The guy can hit!
Pending what we give up i would not mind it.
I think he has had 100 RBIs in the past 4-5 seasons. 62 this year. His fielding is eh, but he does have 7 outfield assists.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on Jul 30, 2008 11:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ummm...
why???
Making a move like this forces Dome to play out of position and Ibanez to play out of position. It makes our OF go from above average defensively to below average defensively and it adds minimal improvements to the lineup since Ibanez probably can’t post much better results than our CF platoon which has hit .278/.357/.452 for an .809 OPS. Ibanez has hit .279/.349/.464 for an .813 OPS
I’d admit Ibanez is a more assured bet going forward offensively but is the very marginal offensive upgrade worth a significant defensive downgrade????
And if Edmonds needs to be DL’d for a period of time why not just call up Pie who’s posting an OPS over 1.000 in the last month at AAA? It would be the PERFECT time to platoon him and get a 2nd look at the improvements in his contact rates he’s made at the minor league level
This would be an incredibly pointless acquisition that would likely make our starting lineup marginally worse while costing some valuable trade chips
what’s the point?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, this would be a terrible, terrible idea.
Unless we can trade them Marquis for Ibanez straight up….in which case it might still be close. If that tells you anything about how pointless acquiring him would be.
by Canseco's Roid Party on Jul 30, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LSA.
Ibanez certainly has some impressive offensive numbers (OPS+ over 100 for eight seasons running, including this one), but this feels like Cliff Floyd redux to me. I’ve read/heard that Jim Edmonds feels fine and, if he doesn’t, yes, bring back Felix!
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Felix wasn't a real option to Lou in the beginning of the season
why in the world would anyone think Lou would consider him an option in the stretch drive of a championship season? Yes, Felix is a great option to play if management decisions had gone differently, but they didn’t and Felix is not an option the club will turn to except in dire emergency.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, well, as stated...
...they should bring Felix back if Edmonds is seriously injured. I’m not suggesting they bring him up for the stretch run, and I don’t think Dartmouth was either.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds knee injury = dire emergency
in my book…
as daver mentions, i wasn’t suggesting Pie is to be brought up unless Edmonds was hurt. All i’m suggesting is there isn’t a single OF option (in my mind) that makes more sense than promoting Pie if Edmonds is hurt. Every other option that’s being thrown around is asking multiple OF’s to play out of position while adding minimally to our current offense.
I’d rather take the chance at taking a hit on the offensive side and know that the defense will be as good as it has been, but that’s also because i think there is more chance Pie produces offensively like we’ve had at the CF position all year than there is chance Ibanez or whomever the option would be in trade playing RF and Fukudome playing CF match the defense we’ve had up to this point
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree it makes sense in theory.
But we’re talking about what Lou is willing to do. In theory, when Soriano went down, the simplest solution was just to plug Murton into that hole for most of the ABs, but that’s not what Lou was willing to do.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's fair
we should probably adjust all roster management conversations/planning to 24 man rosters with 1 bullpen jester position as well since that’s what Lou will do
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL - all that said, I don't mind discussing what's best for the team on paper
irregardless of Lou. I usually prefer those discussions. But in terms of “what we might trade for” discussions, well, those have to take Lou into account.
Back to the realm of “on paper,” in the first weeks of the season, I beat to death the idea that what was best for the Cubs was to play Pie and let him grow through his problems in the majors. I still believe we are a worse club overall given our decision to go otherwise. The fact that the Cubs are considering players like Winn and Ibanez proves it – as good as Edmonds has been, you can’t trust his health.
But also in fairness to Lou – he has his idea of guys who can succeed and guys who can’t. And in his favor, Theriot has succeeded at getting to first base this season. Fontenot has succeeded by any measure. Guys like Eyre, Murton, Pie, etc. – they’re either Dusty’s guys or Hendry’s, and some of Lou’s 25-man roster management over the past year and a half reflects some, “I don’t want to play this guy, but he has a contract, so….” That doesn’t reflect well on Lou, but it’s also something that shouldn’t be a problem next year when the roster is nearly all Lou’s.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If and when Pie...
...comes back, Piniella would use him for defense and to add a speed component to the game, not to start but the occasional game.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 30, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
and take this as a response to daver and dartmouth – by “dire emergency” I mean more than just Edmonds being injured. If Edmonds is injured and the Cubs don’t trade for another option, Lou is going to play Fontenot and Reed over Pie. We’d see Fonty at 2B, DeRo at RF and Dome at CF with Reed getting a few starts v. RHP also.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I must admit...
...that does sound like something Lou would do. If Edmonds were to go down, I’d still like to see Pie come up and platoon with RJ – not only so Felix could face major league pitching, but also to keep everyone else in their natural positions. But, yeah, Lou may be unwilling to give Pie that chance this season.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can take the "may" out of it...
Piniella gave up on Pie (for this year at least) in April. He trusts Fontenot now. Pie would get the spot start here and there if Edmonds got hurt and no trade was made, but unless he came up and went 3-4 with a double in his first start he’s not going to change Lou’s mind down the stretch.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
And even the 3/4 may not buy him much.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is...
That Hendry was probably just doing his due dillegence and finding out how much Ibanez would cost the Cubs. If the rumored price of “two quality prospects” is accurate (and it probably is), the deal doesn’t happen. Not every trade-deadline rumor stems from serious trade talks, after all; a lot of them are simply single phone calls that get blown way out of proportion because guys like Rosenthal feel the need to report every little tidbit they hear.
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman
by hip2bsquare on Jul 30, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't disagree
but if the price is even 1 legitimate prospect why would you do it, is my point. It only really upgrades our bench…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
two trade options that I think are better
Aubrey Huff and Randy Winn
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can Huff play RF?
He has been on fire lately
by Blaze22 on Jul 30, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is a difference
between playing it and playing it adequately…
he hasn’t played the OF since 2006
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why don't u think he could play it adequately?
An addition of Aubrey Huff totally changes the lineup completely (not saying that our lineup now is bad)
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he didn't play it adequately when he DID play RF...
and he hasn’t played RF in two years.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the part where he
hasn’t played it since 2006
and the part where he wasn’t particularly great when he did play it
http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/DisplayCharts.py?PlayerID=1213&fpos=9&year=2006
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so if you don't play a position for 2 yrs. u forget how to play it?
That makes no sense. So you can say that if Reed Johnson doesn’t play outfield for 2 yrs. he forgets how to play the outfield. Not what i consider a good argument. You can look at charts all you want, if an outfielder can make the routine plays then he could play outfield. I’m pretty sure that Aubrey Huff can make catches on routine flyballs. I’ve seen good outfielders drop normal flyballs. So that makes them bad?
Adequate outfield play in my terms = makes all the normal catches, will make a great catch now and then but usually won’t all of them, and is fundamentally sound when throwing to cutoffs man, backing up fellow outfielders, etc.
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ummm...
i’m saying there’s a reason he’s not played the OF in 2 years and instead has been a primary DH, its probably because he’s not very good at it.
And there’s a lot more to playing the OF than making “routine plays”. As you may or may not be aware the idea of a “routine play” is completely dependent on the quality of a defender. A bad defender will make many less plays look “routine” while a good defender will cover more ground and make a number of more plays look “routine”
there is more to defense than just Fielding % which is what it would seem you judge defense by, hence your fascination with the “normal catches”
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you not read the part where i said "will make a great catch now and then but usually won’t all of them"
I actually never said or even hinted defense is just fielding %. Have you even seen him enough to know that he doesn’t make plays look routine?
“I’ve seen good outfielders drop normal flyballs. So that makes them bad?”
But understand this if the cubs get huff, it would be for the offensive side. Don’t get me wrong, i don’t think huff is a gold glover by any means, i just think he’s adequate.
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its hard to see the guy
when his team doesn’t think he’s a viable option in the OF
if his own team doesn’t think he can handle RF (the O’s have use a RF platoon for the last two years) why should we?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you even know that they don't think he can handle RF
They do have Nick Markakis, who has a really nice arm and pretty good OF. What if Markakis doesn’t want to DH? Just because a team plays someone at DH it doesn’t even mean that he’s bad. Have you ever though that maybe the person ahead of him might like playing rather than sitting.
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it means
that he’s the worst fielder on the team….
major league teams don’t make personnel decisions based on who wants to play
the Orioles have had OF platoons alongside Markakis in LF for 2 years now and Huff hasn’t played a single inning out there. And that’s LF which is a lot easier to play than RF….
Aubrey Huff is a DH, plain and simple
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he played 26 games in LF
that’s not a platoon
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you missed the point...
The point was that the Orioles have had a spot available in LF. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have platooned guys there the last two years.
And despite that fact, the Orioles have chosen NOT to use Huff there. There’s a reason for that: it’s because Huff is not an adequate OF. If he’s not an adequate LF, why would he be an adequate RF?
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luke Scott is their every day LF this year
Last year, it was Jay Payton, who I think is a pretty good LF. Why would the O’s play him in LF when Payton is better, although I don’t believe that Huff can’t play LF. He’s played LF 8 times in his career. DH him if he hasn’t been known to play that position.
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have a platoon this year...
Scott has 70 starts in LF, Payton has 37. Scott starts against RHP, Payton against LHP. That is the definition of a platoon.
As for Huff, you are hurting your argument here. If you think he can play an adequate RF, then he absolutely can play an adequate LF. LF is easier to play than RF.
But this is silly. You’ve yet to show any argument as to why you think Huff is a capable RF other than “he did it briefly a few years ago but I don’t know how well he did at it,” yet you expect the burden of proof to be on the other side?
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why do you think that because a player is DH
that he’s bad defensively. Gary Matthews Jr. has DH 13 times this year. So because they have to platoon him with Garrett Anderson, he’s bad. I don’t agree at all.
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not remotely similar and you know it...
Huff has played ZERO games in the OF for two years, despite a glaring hole there last year. Matthews has played almost ALL of his games in the OF, but has occasionally DHed because the Angels have an overcrowded OF. That’s a terrible argument.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey now...
...don’t go and get all in a huff about Huff.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ibanez is a LF... period
Let me preface this by saying I am a fan of Ibanez. But the Cubs just don’t have a place for him to play. He cannot play CF, doesn’t have a strong enough arm for RF, and has played just a little 1B. The only way this would work is if Soriano could and would play center, and that just isn’t going to happen.
In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this -Oysterband
by Ross on Jul 30, 2008 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
here's to hoping for two more days of silence
on the trade front
I don’t see any acquisition out there that is going to “put the Cubs over the top” and is worth the price being shelled out.
We filled the one glaring weakness we had with the Rich Harden move.
We’ve scored more runs than any team in baseball sans Texas and we have one of the 10 best defensive teams in baseball. We have one of the best rotations in baseball and we have a glut of guys in the pen to the point we can’t figure which one we should DFA on any given night.
Given the ridiculous cost of bullpen arms on the trade market I’d hope we just try to figure it out internally and stay put at the deadline.
Any talk of tinkering is overthinking things in my opinion. We’ve been one of the best teams in baseball to this point in the season and we look to be one of the best teams in baseball for the last 50 games or so as well.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 11:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
we need a bullpen arm
I am sorry, but I have very little to no confidence in our bullpen:
eyre- not going to pitch unless were down 10 in the 9th
cotts- been better recently, but not the guy I want going down the stretch to get lefties out
marshall- only good for the long reliefs
marmol- has been more good than bad, but his bad is awful
howry- end of his career
wood- how long is his injury going to be?
wuertz- in iowa
smard- too young right now to be counted on as a main threat
lieber- DL
gaudin- I like
way too many questions for this bullpen, get another solid arm- mahay, sherill, taschner, downs… and I would feel so much better
by cubs2410 on Jul 30, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
End of Howry's career
Whoa thats pretty bold, may be the end of his Cubs career but geez. Marmol—hmm I’m thinking has been so much good that the small (emphasis on small) percentage of bad is expected. Wood – its a blister, not a torn ligament. I’ll stop there.
by StevenABQ on Jul 30, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
...Howry has had too much success to be done. His style of pitching creates a need for his command to be top notch, and he is going through the equivalent of a hitter’s slump.
He may or may not find it before this year is out, but he will in the league at least another 2 years.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 30, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very few, if any, major league teams...
...have an airtight bullpen. (Maybe the Angels?) The Cubs pen has had it’s troubles as of late, but many of them were exacerbated by the fact that the team wasn’t scoring many runs.
Woody’s absence is frustrating, and Howry’s inability to not give up runs has been exasperating, but I think you paint a far darker picture than is truly accurate.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why so much Love for Cotts
Dude hasn’t pitched that well and is 6th inning LOOGY at best. Lou clearly doesn’t trust him and may be behind Marshall on the depth chart.
Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not a LOOGY.
His splits against righties and lefties aren’t much different – in fact, lefties have a higher OPS against him. I still like Cotts, and he’s looked good at times but, overall, his numbers still don’t look particularly good, which is perhaps why Lou is staying away from him.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember felix's debut
rbi single, that nice outfield assist
i thought that was the beginning of a great career.
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It still could be.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'll be back
we don’t need to trade for ANYTHING.
’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)
by drewishdrewid on Jul 30, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know this would never happen but....
would u trade alfonso soriano for manny ramirez
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 11:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
No team is taking Soriano’s contract though. In the middle years of Ramirez’s contract the Sox basically would give hime away if anyone would take on his salary and no one did. Soriano’s is making almost as much as Ramirez and produce nowhere near the level that Ramirez was doing back then. Anyway, this is never going to happen like you just said.
by Luis on Jul 30, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So right now..
You would take Ramirez over Soriano??
I think you are crazy
by Blaze22 on Jul 30, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you give me one reason why you wouldn't?
by Luis on Jul 30, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way many acts..
I don’t want a player like that at Wrigley. His defense is even worse than Sorianos. Soriano fits this team better. We don’t need another 3-4 hitter.
by Blaze22 on Jul 30, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Either way
it would never happen. Thank god.
by Blaze22 on Jul 30, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, it would never happen.
So there really is no point discussing it. But I’m pretty much at a loss when I see anyone saying they prefer Soriano over Ramirez. Soriano might be better defensively (and he is no wizard) but the difference probably has just a very marginal impact. Offensively the two are of course not even in the same universe.
by Luis on Jul 30, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm, well, Manny would probably...
...feast on NL pitching. And he’d no doubt eat up the atmosphere at Wrigley. Plus, he could bat right in front of his cousin Aramis in the lineup. The Cubs would probably score nine runs a game. Fun to think about but, yeah, never gonna happen.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does ivy thrive on urine?
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on Jul 30, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, well, I hate to answer a question with a question...
...but has Manny been known to pee on outfield walls?
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a second.
I like Fonzi but Manny is manny. And RBI machine who isn’t slowing down anytime soon.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 30, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have to be kidding me
if sori is a head case i dont know what you’d call manny
manny production is falling and falling and falling
manny is a TERRIBLE defender
manny will make $40 mil over 2 years
by cubswynn on Jul 30, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
.932 OPS which includes a .400 OBP. Yeah, he has fallen to the abyss (np)
by Luis on Jul 30, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny is just not a
typical Chicago Cubs player.. He would not fit in at Wrigley. It would be pretty funny seeing him try to catch a high pop fly thats caught up in the wind blowing to left.
by Blaze22 on Jul 30, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Not fitting, attitude, etc., I’m not talking about that. Noone can really determine this. I’m talking about his production on the field.
by Luis on Jul 30, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can't just look at production though to have this discussion
you have to look at the whole picture if we’re gonna talk about if you’d do the trade
by cubswynn on Jul 30, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that anybody can really predict
How well Manny would fit in with the Cubs. So that’s why I’m not giving it any thought. Manny is no Bonds.
by Luis on Jul 30, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just outta curiousity...
...how would you define a “typical” Cubs player?
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
defense isn't much worse than Foinzi's IMO.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 30, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know...
...did you see that one play recently in which Manny was flopping all over left field like a dying fish? It was hilarious.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice touch
With him laughing after such atrocious plays. As a fan I would be pretty disgusted…with his bad defense and comments he has made in the past, its clear IMHO he only is concerned with himself and less about his team winning.
by StevenABQ on Jul 30, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
I think he cares less than Fonzi but is the difference that great that we wouldn’ t take Manny’s 120 RBIs? I like Fonzi but Manny is less hot and cold than Fonzi.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 30, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To some degree
I see your point, but I also think Manny is a heck of alot more of a club house distraction than Sori. Plus I think Sori does have the ability to ignite the team in a more productive way. And I’d rather have a guy that is iching to start playing again after an injury (one that you practically have to tie down) than a guy that “could” be dare I say faking an injury to take some time off.
by StevenABQ on Jul 30, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no.
’’If somebody had told me we were going to lose Soriano for eight weeks, lose [Carlos] Zambrano and Kerry Wood for a couple of weeks apiece, and then at the same time lose [Reed] Johnson, and then when we played the American League not have a DH [then-injured Daryle Ward], and be in first place by two games, I’d tell you we were pretty fortunate.’’ Lou Piniella (7/23/08)
by drewishdrewid on Jul 30, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
guys i say trade for aubrey huff
not ibanez
by lexmarklover on Jul 30, 2008 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This isn't going to happen...
...unless you say, “Git ‘er done, Jimbo!”
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did they change the rules?
are we allowed to use a DH in the NL now? Why are we even discussing these guys?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck trading with the Orioles
The Cubs got Harden AND Gaudin for less than what the Orioles supposedly wanted for Roberts. That pretty much sums up the way they do business there.
by Luis on Jul 30, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having hit the jackpot with Bedard trade
They will be worse than usual.
Weirdest trade tack this morning was a discussion of Sherrill in which the ESPN guy
( forgot which one) said Brewers and Cardinals were interested but O’s would want to much
( so far no problem) and since the Brewers and Cards would only want him as a SET UP guy
they would not want to pay too much. Um remind who the Brewers or Cards have closing that is better than Sherrill ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 30, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great point
I never thought about how little we gave up in comparison to what the O’s wanted for one position player.
Still wouldn’t mind him in this lineup.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on Jul 30, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Mark Kotsay instead?
Sounds like he’s available.
He could take over every day duties in CF, with Edmonds and Johnson becoming solid bats off the bench.
by Wreckard on Jul 30, 2008 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kotsay isn't much with the bat...
If Edmonds is healthy, an Edmonds/Johnson platoon makes more sense than trading for Kotsay.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Edmonds is really hurt
this is a better option than Ibanez. I would expect Kotsay is pretty cheap too.
by rlpete on Jul 30, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really cheap...
in $, he’s actually more expensive ($7 million) than Ibanez ($5.5 million). In terms of prospects, who knows?
Kotsay is a better fit than Ibanez if Edmonds is seriously hurt and can’t play down the stretch. That does not appear to be the case as of Sunday, though.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah there is no need for that.
If we do anything it should be SELLING. If we aren’t going to use Eyre or another one of the relievers, we should trade them to add a few prospects, even if they are middling ones; our system could use some of Tampa Bay’s talent especially…they could throw us like their 20th best prospect and he’d be a big deal for us considering our fairly thin system.
by Canseco's Roid Party on Jul 30, 2008 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If this happens...
...there is something going on (regarding Edmonds health) that the Cubs are keeping close to the vest.
If Edmonds is relatively healthy, I don’t see a need to do this deal.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Jul 30, 2008 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the ONLY reason to discuss a move...
as it wouldn’t be an upgrade over what we have if Edmonds can play.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Soriano would play where?
Please don’t say second base. Please don’t say second base. Please don’t say second base. Please don’t say second base. Please don’t say second base. Please don’t say second base.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
daver...
Anybody who would say that obviously doesn’t understand baseball, and esp. the Cubs.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 30, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant he would play RIGHT. Not that you are RIGHT
by Blaze22 on Jul 30, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I see.
Well, the problem there is, from what I can tell from his Baseball-Reference page, Bay has played a grand total of one game in right field in his career – and that was in 2003. So if you’re suggesting the Cubs platoon Dome and Bay, this would be a pretty huge gamble defensively.
I guess he would be a decent right-handed bat off the bench – he’s having a pretty good year offensively – but I’m not sure what the Cubs could/should trade the Pirates to get him. (Assuming the Pirates would do business with Hendry in the first place.)
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe it or not, I've seen people suggest it from time to time.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about SS (J/K)
Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 30, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay at catcher,
Soto at 3rd, Aramis at SS. Now thats an infield!!!
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...
by LPLancer23 on Jul 30, 2008 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shortstop?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
But he would expect to start. Which he certainly will not do with Soriano in LF. What the team could use is someone with speed, who can play both IF & OF.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 30, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To play CF, sure but not RF
What does this do to Kosuke-san? JimmyE’s legs must be giving out on him for Hendry to consider this.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Jul 30, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Hendry is just feeling out the market...
Which he is great at. How do you think he was able to get Harden & Gaudin so cheap, when everybody thought CC was the big prize that he was going after?
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 30, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
There’s nothing wrong with adding depth, depth, depth – as long as you aren’t significantly cutting into depth elsewhere.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Jul 30, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really though..
With the way we have played the last 3 games..Do we really need anyone?
by Blaze22 on Jul 30, 2008 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm going to get flamed for this but....
On this day with this kind or trade speculation I miss MNBIU. Say what ever you like about him but his takes on possible trades were always interesting.
On a side note one interesting and scary trade rumor floating around is :
Red Sox: Jason Bay
Dodgers: Manny
Pirates: Kemp or Eithier plus pitching prospects
Scare me for two reasons: A.) Dodgers with Manny could become a very very very interesting team this year B.) Pirates with Kemp and Eithier and two strong pitching prospects could be very scary in 2009/2010.
Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Jul 30, 2008 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And where is this rumor floating around?
As for point (a), the Dodgers would have to play Pierre in RF. As for point (b), the Pirates aren’t going to be scary next year. They still don’t have the pitching, and they’d have lost two of their big bats (Nady and Bay) and replaced them with either Ethier or Kemp (according to your posted rumor, it was OR, not AND).
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all of these negitive comments
are comming from the same people that would have rather died then have jim edmonds signed. That seemed to work out, so why couldnt this.. I would like to have another vetran hitter on the bench besides daryle
by Kchance on Jul 30, 2008 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds didn't cost the Cubs any players.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true but
giving up a so called prospect for one big hit in the post season would be worth it. Im jsut saying that ibanez would give the cubs another experenced hitter that could work wonders if he goes on a hot streak at playoff time. I jreally think that people should at least welcome the idea i8nstead of saying well what if we give up a swomthing. Jim WILL NOT give up an important peice. Thats why he is the Gm and we are not
by Kchance on Jul 30, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is there some sort of guarantee
that Ibanez is going to get this “one big hit”
because if that’s the case then maybe you’ve changed my mind….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they could write it into his contract.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is entirely different...
1. Edmonds at least filled a need. He just looked done as a player; that’s why people complained. Ibanez doesn’t look done as a player; he just doesn’t fit any sort of need.
2. Edmonds cost nothing in terms of money or prospects. Ibanez costs both money AND prospects.
3. Where’s the potential for upside here? At least with Edmonds, he could vastly upgrade the LH portion of the CF platoon (and has done so). With Ibanez, you’re MAYBE getting an extra hit or two as a pinch hitter (emphasis on maybe).
If you could get Ibanez for nothing, it makes sense. But trading prospects for a LH pinch hitter when you already have a LH pinch hitter who has succeeded in the past makes no sense.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Factoring Edmonds' poor defense...
...I’m not sure he’s actually an upgrade over Pie right now. Then again, I’m not sure he’s any worse, either.
by cwyers on Jul 30, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an incredibly bold claim...
Edmonds’s OPS with the Cubs is about .300 points higher than Pie’s was this season. I have trouble believing the difference in defensive ability is worth that much.
If Pie can come in and put up an .800 OPS, then maybe you have a point. But that is FAR from a given. I’m not bashing Pie (I was not happy we got Edmonds in the first place), but it’s an incredibly bold claim to say that Edmonds may not be an upgrade over Pie right now.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, as of the All Star Break...
...Edmonds was about four and a half runs worse than average defensively in center. Pie, in about half as many defensive innings, was about a run and a half better than Edmonds, so (holding a fussy baby so expect a lot of rounding here) about three runs above average given Edmonds playing time. So let’s say Pie is 7 runs better than Edmonds on defense in that timeframe. (This is a real lazy way of doing this, but… baby.)
Edmonds as a Cub thus far has been seven runs above average on offense. So it depends on how you view Pie’s offense, but his poor defense has offeset a lot of his production. If he continues to miss playing time to injury, it’s really Edmonds-and-the-wrong-side-of-Reed-Johnson versus Pie, and the needle swings a little further in Pie’s direction.
by cwyers on Jul 30, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not following your math here, among other things...
You say that Pie is 1.5 runs better than Edmonds makes him 3 runs above average and then 7 runs above Edmonds? Did you mean 1.5 runs above average?
what does “wrong side of Johnson” mean? Piniella has been playing Fontenot, who is hitting quite well actually.
Edmonds, by your count, is a plus 2-3 runs above average, assuming that he’s been as bad defensively as a Cub as he was as a Padre. I suspect that his defensive liability was similar to his offensive liability (i.e., due to injury). If that’s the case, I’d guess he’s not a -4.5 defensively anymore, as his offense has been MUCH better as a Cub.
Pie has yet to show he’s remotely close to average offensively. So you would have to make strong assumptions about Edmonds not being systematically different as a Cub than he was as a Padre OR strong assumptions about Pie improving his offense (or both).
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i defer to cwyers
on all this stuff, but i’d love to see a post on Edmonds vs. Pie right now
does this qualify as asking a sabermagician?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 30, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would have to be subject to a projection for Pie...
ignoring his MLB career to this point and based on estimates of the translation of AAA to MLB stats. And it would probably have to ignore the fact that Edmonds has looked like a completely different player from the guy that played in San Diego early this year.
Edmonds as a Cub versus Pie as a Cub is a no-contest win for Edmonds. For Pie to match Edmonds, it will require assuming that there isn’t a systematic difference between Edmonds now and Edmonds in April, and assuming that Pie’s previous MLB experience is not close to what we should expect moving forward.
by SouthernCub on Jul 30, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, go ahead and ask.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Jul 30, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
......I’ll take a proven veteran bat anytime. Whether from the bench as a part timer…........no sense getting caught with pants down in case Sori or edmonds go down.
However….............I’d rather get a proven reliever…...
by plenz on Jul 30, 2008 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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