How much would C.C. help the brewers
All reports indicate that Milwaukee is the most likely destination for C.C. Sabathia and although he is a Cleveland Indian for the time being, I was thinking about how much he would really help the Brewers in their attempt to overtake the Cubs atop the division. Were he traded within the next week, Sabathia would start 14 games for the Brewers. Is it possible that he could dominate with a change to the NL, yes. But the same was said about Johan Santana during the offseason and you could easily argue that he was been worse pitching for the Mets then with the Twins.
Acquiring C.C would mean that Seth McClung would be the odd man out. In those 14 starts, from McClung a good number of wins to expect would be somewhere between 5 and 8. With Sabathia on the other hand, 9-12 would be a number he could reach. This is of course assuming he pitches like the C.C. Sabathia we have seen the past 2 months and not the pitcher we saw during April. So if he performs, this would be mean giving away arguably your top prospect for 2-3 more wins on a season. And after the season theres little chance the brewers would sign Sabathia long term. Sure in the playoffs a rotation of Sheets, Sabathia, and Parra would look tremendous, but you need to make the playoffs first.
Im not saying I wouldn't love the cubs to acquire Sabathia or another proven starter because I would, I just think the impact of any starting pitcher for 1/2 a season is less than one would think and even if they do get Sabathia I think it will take much more for the Brewers to catch the cubs.
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One thing I have learned in my 17 years
of being a baseball fan is to never estimate anything. Never assume that a player will go to a certain thing just because media outlets (ESPN, FOX, etc.) are reporting it.
Yes, C.C Sabathia would help the Brewers, but I still think we are a better team than them. A starter isn’t exactly a NEED for them. But hey. If they wanna give up a blue-chip prospect for a rental player, fine, so be it. We can’t afford to give away our blue-chip prospects (Vitters, Soto).
I highly doubt he signs with the Brewers if he lands there, BTW.
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by Unique on Jul 4, 2008 11:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Plus, as has been written here before, for the last couple of years Milwaukee’s biggest problem has been their bullpen, not their rotation. Granted, Sabathia can go deeper into games than their other starters. But if he’s only going six or seven innings, the Brewers will have the same problem closing games out that they do now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 5, 2008 4:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their pen... and their poor defense (Braun, Fielder)...
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jul 5, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if they make the playoffs...
Then having CC really helps
I hear Tony La Russa may bat the Pitcher spot cleanup
by jds2 on Jul 4, 2008 11:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It does help.
But however, if they don’t fix that bullpen, who they have starting doesn’t really matter.
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by Unique on Jul 5, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
C.C. Sabathia would be huge addition to any NL team
Sabathia is a workhorse with an arsenal of filthy pitches. I’ve caught a few of his games on the tube over the years and am dutifully impressed. Coming to a new and weaker National League? I think he would post numbers even more eye-popping than what he has flashed the past couple of seasons. In fact he would stand excellent chance of very rapidly becoming THE best pitcher in the National League. An addition like that by the Brewers would be as HUGE as it gets. Especially with an ace like Ben Sheets also being in that rotation. The other benefit for the Brewers? Their bullpen gets better via the shift of Seth McClung.
Pitching is KING. We don't add a frontline starting pitcher and a quality bullpen arm then this season will have yet another sad conclusion.
by MDBNIU on Jul 5, 2008 12:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Short series,
CC and Sheets with their offense? May not need a bullpen. Yes, he will help them (but I’m holding out hope it doesn’t happen).
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by mrcubsfan on Jul 5, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember reading the exact same thing
about Johan.
For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.
by Less is Walrond on Jul 5, 2008 1:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It might work out
considering CC was getting shelled the first quarter of the season.
And if anyone wants to put the cart before the horse don’t forget the awful playoff performance and the roughly 7 era in that period.
Sheets and CC on paper look impressive, but looking at the numbers, I’m not so sure. And don’t forget the shitty bullpen.
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by Gibbon Jockey on Jul 5, 2008 2:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Off the top of my head...
I’d say - ceteris paribus - 2-4 more wins. So you really have to think that both Chicago and St. Louis are due for some regression to make that trade.
Honestly though, if I were involved with the Brewers, I’d be working the phones trying to get my hands on Jon Rauch, Ron Mahay, or the like, rather than trying to get involved in rental players.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 5, 2008 6:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think CC's presence on the Brewer's staff will mean a lot.....
IF they rent him, I am sure Hendry will make him a great offer when the time comes. So, who would he replace on the Brewer’s staff? It is only the projected differences in the 10 or so starts he would make between his games and the games of whomever he replaces. There is no way to tell, the sabrematricians can make a good stab at it though. And remember, besides the little league bullpen the Brewers have, they still have to catch and pass TWO teams to win this thing. On the other hand, he would make a difference to the Cubs, only because whatever his value on the field over who he replaces would only ADD to our lead. Assuming, of course, he pitches the way he has been lately.
by crazymountain on Jul 5, 2008 9:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A lot
Obviously, you could compare Sabathia vs. the pitcher he’d be bumping out of the rotation, apparently McClung. From that you are estimating 2 – 4 wins more. That is a very fair estimate, however it doesn’t take into account the effect it will have on the bullpen.
My analysis of the Brewers has been that they are too one dimensional of a team to win for any extended period of time. Once Gallardo went down their rotation became mediocre, their bullpen looked to be mediocre, but that offense looked to be quite good. If you add Sabathia to the rotation, suddenly the SP goes from mediocre to pretty impressive with two aces. Ideally, a team, like the Cubs, have a solid offense, rotation, and bullpen. That way they can lean on any of those facets at a given time to try to win a game.
Certainly, adding Sabathia to start the season would lead to a lot more wins than adding him at the break. But don’t disregard the effect that this might have on the relievers. First, it’s most likely that McClung goes to the pen, which isn’t a world of difference, but it’s still likely to be an improvement. Now, Sabathia usually goes pretty deep into games, I believe at least 7 (I could be wrong). Going deep into games will obviously shorten up the bullpen which does a couple of things. 1. It can make the bullpen more effective over the second half with more rest. 2. Even though Sabathia may not be collecting the wins for his starts, a bullpen that only has to work 1 or 2 innings is more likely to keep the game in reach than one that has to work 3 or 4. So while Sabathia might only win 8, the team could win 12 of his 14 starts as a result of a shorter bullpen.
I don’t think he could make a bigger difference than 6 or 7 wins (and that would be a lot), but that’s certainly higher than 2 – 4, and it’s certainly enough to make a big difference in a pennant race. The Cubs are likely to still be the better team even if the Brewers land Sabathia, but if somebody big goes down for the Cubs, they could be overtaken.
by WittyUserName on Jul 5, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CC and the playoffs
Discussing the impact of the Cubs and the Brewer’s in the regular season is in my mind meaningless. The Cubs will make the playoffs – either a division winner or a wild card.
The Cubs will not play the Brewers in the 1st round (teams can’t play teams in their own division) so we are talking what will CC’s impact be in a best of 7 series for a trip to the World Series.
Our concern about CC should be limited to game 1 or 2 of the final playoff series.
Pitching match-ups:
Game 1 – Big Z vs. Sheets – Z likes the big games – advantage Cubs
Game 2 – Dempster vs. CC – advantage – Cubs if at home – Brewers if on the road.
Let’s hope we win the division.
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by Cub Fan Mike on Jul 5, 2008 10:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This makes absolutely no sense.
The Brewers are going to lose Sheets at the end of the season.
They are 5 games out right now.
Why would they trade all of their prospects for a 2 month rental? By the end of the year, they will lose Sheets and Sabathia. I would expect them to go after someone like Greinke or Bedard much more than Sabathia.
If they were 5 games in first place, I might understand. But to mortgage their future for a 2 month rental when they will already lose Sheets at the end of the year? I would think they would only trade their top prospects for someone under control for a few years to replace Sheets.
The whole thing makes no sense.
by nickler on Jul 5, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because
they haven’t made the post-season since 1982.
Because they believe with a starting rotation of Sabathia, Sheets and Parra, they could go far in the playoffs, even as the wild card.
Because if they lose Sabathia and Sheets, they’d get five first round draft picke to restock that farm system that they’d gut to trade for Sabathia.
It’s a gamble, sure, but it’s one that absolutely does make sense.
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by Josh77 on Jul 5, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
even if they don’t get Sabathia and the Cubs do, their involvement drives up the price.
I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.
by neverAcquiesce on Jul 5, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing to keep in mind...
...is that right now the Brewers are only a game back of the Cardinals in the Wild Card, and the Wild Card seems a lock to come out of the NL Central this year. (No team in the NL West has a record above .500, fer chrissakes.)
And since there are, in fact, only four corner spots in baseball, at some point you have to do something with the surplus.
by cwyers on Jul 5, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
With Fielder, Braun, LaPorta and Gamel in their system, the have four top-flight first basemen or first base prospects.
I expected them to try to trade Fielder in the off-season for an ace pitcher, but trading LaPorta for Sabathia works too.
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by Josh77 on Jul 5, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can do both, depending on how Gamel comes along.
Or move Braun to first and get Rickie Weeks out of the infield, either way.
by cwyers on Jul 5, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who says they're going to lose Ben Sheets
Owner Mark Attanasio has deep pocket and keeps insisting that he will invest to keep the young core intact. Plus who is to say that the Brewers can’t pony up $100 million to sign C.C. Sabathia? I would not be so dismissive of the Brewers spending money.
Pitching is KING. We don't add a frontline starting pitcher and a quality bullpen arm then this season will have yet another sad conclusion.
by MDBNIU on Jul 5, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here are my thoughts
It appears that CC is going to be traded and probably to Milwaukee. I then think it will create the market value and bring teams to the point of sellers and buyers.
As for Milwaukee the problem is they are not a complete team, though a troublesome team. They will compete with StL, FLA, and possibly LAD & NYM for the WC, but most likely StL and FLA. They are weakest in the bullpen and should be trading for a closer and set up.
Buyers: BOS, TB, MIL, CHC, PHL, LAA
Possible buyers: NYY, FLA, DET, MIN, AZ, OAK, LAD
Possible sellers: OAK, LAD, KC, TEX, SF
Sellers: CLE, CO, SEA, SD, TOR, PIT, HOU, CIN,
NON Part: CHW, STL, BAL
Except for OAK and LAD who might do both there are six strong buyers out there and eight motivated sellers.
This is why depending on the cost picking up a Burkett, Bedard, Harden or possible Oswalt or Grienke or Wolf or Cook or even a pick of Pitt like Gorzalany would be a smart move and just as strong as CC. I even think that the Yankees could move into the sellers market with either a Pettitt.
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by Ivy Walls on Jul 5, 2008 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
heh heh, Ivy Balls strikes again...
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by ballhawk on Jul 5, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derrek Lowe
He is the name beyond the usual suspect of A.J. Burnett that I think bears watching. Does Los Angeles think they can stay in the race in the mega-weak NL West? Or would they be better served getting a handful of solid prospects for a free agent to be and pass the torch to Clayton Kershaw in the rotation?
Felix Pie and Ronny Cedeno MIGHT get the attention of the Dodgers. Might.
Pitching is KING. We don't add a frontline starting pitcher and a quality bullpen arm then this season will have yet another sad conclusion.
by MDBNIU on Jul 5, 2008 1:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And before you poo-poo Lowe....
He is durable and he is a proven commodity on playoff caliber ballclubs. His ground ball tendencies would look real nice in the Cub rotation.
Pitching is KING. We don't add a frontline starting pitcher and a quality bullpen arm then this season will have yet another sad conclusion.
by MDBNIU on Jul 5, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Dodgers could be in first place tomorrow.
You think they’re sellers? Doubt it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Jul 5, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they DO have starters and they DO have need at shortstop
But yeah, you’re right. Derrek Lowe is still nice to think of.
Diehard: All right, Hendry, let's see how you improve the ballclub mid-season.
Hendry: What coordinates, sir?
Diehard: [annoyed] Coordinates?
Hendry: Yes, sir, they determine where the the ballclub is...
Diehard: Soldier, the Cubs have spent a lot of money teaching you to fire off a trade. Now set and fire.
by MDBNIU on Jul 5, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Dodgers may surprise some people
and get CC.
I’d take either of Andy LaRoche or Matt Kemp over LaPorta if one of those two is on the table.
by DGU on Jul 5, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Snakes or the Dodgers
could win that division as sub- .500 teams.
The Padres win a damn game (especially one over AZ) and they feel THEY ARE IN IT.
That’s almost - no, wait - it IS unreasonable, but that’s the mind-set here right now. They still want fannies in the Petco’s and seem to be willing to try to ‘compete.’
Strange freakin’ team.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 5, 2008 6:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers could be 2.5 games out by tomorrow night WITHOUT C.C.
Think about THAT for a minute
by Mapmaker on Jul 5, 2008 9:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I KNEW IT
I KNEW IT
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3474824
Jim Edmonds has seriously become my favorite player. WHAT'S HAPPENING????
by Cub Style on Jul 5, 2008 9:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey my guy is in that list!
I’ve been telling friends for weeks that Matt Cain may be a possibility come July. Lo and behold…
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by Goodie1969 on Jul 5, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anything Can Happen
Last week folks were saying “Cain goes nowhere” but now he’s linked to the Brewers (and probably other teams looking to be buyers). It’s like I always say….never say “never”.
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by CaliCub on Jul 5, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's one blind item tucked into the end of an Olney column.
It’ll take a little more than that for me to be convinced that Cain is going anywhere.
by cwyers on Jul 6, 2008 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Cain is available -
I’d rather have him than CC.
by DGU on Jul 5, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'd rather have Lincecum.
But that ain’t happenin’.
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by northsider on Jul 6, 2008 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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