Pregame Thread: Cubs vs. Cardinals, Sunday 7/6, 2:15 CT
by Al
on Jul 6, 2008 11:00 AM CDT
in Game Threads
Chicago @ St. Louis
There's an update on the upcoming sale of the Cubs in today's Tribune business section. Nothing we didn't already know, and I am glad to see Don Levin's name still on the list of potential buyers.
I've been posting Baseball Prospectus' playoff odds on the left sidebar all year. Now there's a site called Cool Standings which has expanded on this concept. They project the Cubs, as of today, to finish at (approximately) 95-67 and in first place. That'd require going 43-31 the rest of the year -- absolutely doable as far as I'm concerned.
Time to get going on those 43 wins, today.
Bruce Miles handicaps the Sabathia Sweepstakes.
Rick Morrissey, with whom I frequently disagree, hits the nail on the head today: Alfonso Soriano shouldn't play till he's ready, and should focus on the Cubs, not the All-Star Game.
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It's real simple. Sean Marshall hasn't pitched well against the Cardinals in his career -- 1-1, 4.91. He has to do so today. He's starting primarily because he's lefthanded:
"You look at the Cardinals, and they’re 11 games over against right-handers and one game over against lefties," manager Lou Piniella told the Cubs’ official Web site. "That leads me to believe that we have a better chance with left-handers."
Former Cub Wellemeyer has one career start vs. his original team, beating them in St. Louis on May 4. The Cubs may be facing him at a good time -- he's 0-2, 9.45 in his last three starts and maybe he's not quite ready:
"I can go back out there," Wellemeyer said. "I don’t want to say it, but I could probably use a couple more bullpen sessions and get to where I need to be."
Today's game is on CSN, on broadcast TV in the St. Louis area (KSDK), and on TBS. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether you'll get the TBS telecast if you're outside Chicago or St. Louis. For more see the MLB.com Mediacenter.
MLB.com Gameday (2007 version)
MLB.com Gameday (2008 version)
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Today's first pitch thread posts at first pitch time, 2:15 pm CT. The overflow comment threads will post at 3:30 and 4:30 pm CT.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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7th?!
Someone in the previous thread stated that Woody has only blown “5 saves!”, as if that’s spectacular.
It is good, yes.
Brad Lidge this year? 0 blown saves. Just to keep it in perspective…
We needed that game yesterday. Relying on Sean Marshall is not a great thing.
by The E-Man on Jul 6, 2008 11:03 AM CDT 0 recs
Agreed about Marshall.
I would rather have Gallagher as #5.
by GateCity, VA Cubs Fan on
Jul 6, 2008 11:11 AM CDT
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+1
Gallagher was given up too early. Having someone like Greg Maddux take Gallagher’s spot is one thing—but Sean Marshall? Nah. Not for me anyway.
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
by Unique on
Jul 6, 2008 11:18 AM CDT
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it's the lefty thing
I wouldn’t read too much into it unless it starts to happen consistently.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 11:23 AM CDT
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I guess.
But they have dropped Gallagher out of the rotation.
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
by Unique on
Jul 6, 2008 11:24 AM CDT
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To keep it in perspective
Lidge is the only closer in the NL who has more than 2 saves and hasn’t blown one. Every other closer with more than 10 saves has blown 2 – 7 of them .
Wood melted down. He still should be getting the ball in the 9th.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on
Jul 6, 2008 11:18 AM CDT
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Oh, I agree
but five blown saves, this last one with a two run lead, shows he has some work to do yet to be considered an “elite” closer.
At the beginning of the year, I stated many times here I did not think he’d be an effective closer b/c he walks too many. I am wrong so far, I am happy to say. However, yesterday, he just didn’t have it.
Hopefully it is not a trend.
It has not been talked about, but I wonder if pitching him two days in a row affected his performance?
Pat was remarking how his velocity was down…
by The E-Man on
Jul 6, 2008 11:28 AM CDT
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Get a rip on Woody.
His walk to strike out ratio is fantastic and he had to make four outs yesterday due to the bad call on the 2-2 pitch on the Molina brother. Crap happens. He still almost pitched out of it.
As far as I am concerned, Lilly’s lack of attention on Poo-holes that then caused ARam to play in that allowed the next ball to be a double was the key mental miscue in the game. In a tight game on the road, we can’t do those things.
Yes Woody was off, but he had to get 4 outs in that 9th and he almost did it. Given the stretch of 17 appearances he had just been through, I am willing to cut him some slack. Wood is clearly working his way to the level of elite closer.
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on
Jul 6, 2008 12:11 PM CDT
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Agreed
Sean Marshall doesn’t inspire confidence, especially going up against Pujols in company in a heated contest.
Diehard: All right, Hendry, let's see how you improve the ballclub mid-season.
Hendry: What coordinates, sir?
Diehard: [annoyed] Coordinates?
Hendry: Yes, sir, they determine where the the ballclub is...
Diehard: Soldier, the Cubs have spent a lot of money teaching you to fire off a trade. Now set and fire.
by MDBNIU on
Jul 6, 2008 12:41 PM CDT
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8th
i guess
Favorite Game - 'The Sandberg game" June 23, 1984
by Cub Fan Mike on Jul 6, 2008 11:11 AM CDT 0 recs
That was tough
yesterday….. I hope Marshall can go at least 6 today meaning we should still be in the game. We need this one pretty bad. Milwaukee getting CC worries me a lot. It would be a shame if the only thing preventing Hendry from getting him is the inability to matchup Cleveland’s specific needs. I guess that’s why they say it takes two to tango. Man do I want to tango.
Glad to see Rammy break through yesterday, hopefully he can keep it up today. Hopefully today Edmonds hustles home if he’s in the same position at third as yesterday.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on Jul 6, 2008 11:21 AM CDT 0 recs
This was perhaps another Lou
brain fart: why did he not pinch run in that situation? He has Fonty or RJ on the bench, right? Sometimes, I just think he and Trammel are asleep. I would bet that in the same situation, LaRussa would have…
by The E-Man on
Jul 6, 2008 11:30 AM CDT
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Definitely RJ
because RJ can take over CF defensively in the bottom of the 9th and not lose much if anything with that move defensively. But in my opinion, didnt seem as if Edmonds expect a play at the plate.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jul 6, 2008 11:39 AM CDT
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I always hate admitting this
but LaRussa, and the Card’s organization really have a consistent track record of excellence – and fundamentals/defense are a big reason why.
I am hoping that under Tim Wilken’s talent selection, and better coaching, we can do it too.
by The E-Man on
Jul 6, 2008 11:50 AM CDT
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Three to tango?
Has anyone seen any plausible (or fanciful, far-fetched, or downright ridiculous) 3-team scenarios involving Sabathia to the Cubs?
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jul 6, 2008 11:47 AM CDT
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Be careful what you wish for....
CHC gets:
SP C. C. Sabathia
SP Tim Lincecum
SS Khalil Greene
CLE gets:
2B/SS Ryan Theriot
One year of free pizza from Connie’s
SF gets:
2B Mike Fontenot
1B Micah Hoffpauir
Grease for the trolleys
SD gets:
SP Jason Marquis
3B MDBNIU
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jul 6, 2008 12:24 PM CDT
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That's fair
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on
Jul 6, 2008 12:26 PM CDT
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Thanks
There’s still time for plausible, fanciful and far-fetched…..
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jul 6, 2008 12:27 PM CDT
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You're welcome.
There’s nothing stopping you from coming up with one yourself, though. Who has a LaPorta-type prospect? What would that team take from us to get him? etc.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jul 6, 2008 12:28 PM CDT
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Oh yes there is
Laziness, lack of knowledge, hunger (seriously, I’m hungry), did I mention laziness?
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
by JohnM on
Jul 6, 2008 12:31 PM CDT
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do it!
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 12:31 PM CDT
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Love the silly trade scenario!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on
Jul 6, 2008 12:56 PM CDT
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Always good when the opposing pitcher thinks he could use more bullpen sessions...
...LET’S GET EM, CUBS!! GO CUBS GO!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Jul 6, 2008 11:50 AM CDT 0 recs
Wellemeyer..
is not exactly exuding confidence is he? It’s like he already knows he’s going to be lit up and is offering excuses already.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
by Bump Bailey on
Jul 6, 2008 12:08 PM CDT
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That, or...
he’s baiting us. But now that I think of it, many players often say when they don’t feel they are 100%. Maybe that’s all he means.
Go ahead, Z me.
by tony412 on
Jul 6, 2008 12:13 PM CDT
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don't believe anything you read from a TLR team or player
if Wellemeyer is on the mound, he is ready to go.
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on
Jul 6, 2008 12:14 PM CDT
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About the TBS telecast...
My TV in VA, says that it is the Cubs and the Cards. If I can get the game in VA, it is probably nationwide.
by GateCity, VA Cubs Fan on Jul 6, 2008 11:50 AM CDT 0 recs
Either that or they know Virginia is Sean Marshall country.
Birthplace: Richmond, VA
College: Virginia Commonwealth
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jul 6, 2008 12:26 PM CDT
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On in MN, according to my listings.
I just went down and looked – it looks like I’m staying in this afternoon!
by MN exile on
Jul 6, 2008 1:12 PM CDT
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Lou is FAR too obsessed with the lefty/righty thing
I think Marquis who has actually pitched very well against the Cards should start
today but hey we all know Lou does not care about stuff like that which is why we got
about a week of E-Pat in LF.
In general I suspect this will be a lot more high scoring for both teams than the first two
games
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Jul 6, 2008 12:25 PM CDT 0 recs
The article on Soriano is correct
So much more downside v upside in letting the $136 million man play in the All-Star Game. Since this the game to determine who gets home field advantage, let Soriano be replaced with someone who is at full strength and playing well.
Soriano needs to go to AAA and get at bats (and as we saw last time, face real balls in the outfield!!) before coming back to playing. Could you imagine his poor outfield play costing a run or two in the All-Star Game. Ugh.
THIS IS OUR CENTURY!!
by LAcarl519 on Jul 6, 2008 12:33 PM CDT 0 recs
I couldn't agree more
I’m a big fan of Soriano’s, but this just reinforces the “look at me” side of him. He should be worried about the Cubs and the Cubs only. We really need this guy back.
by TheRamZamDLEE on
Jul 6, 2008 1:33 PM CDT
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helping the NL win the ASG
helps the cubs have potentially home field advantage in the WS. He was selected, he should play.
There is no “look at me” side of Soriano.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 1:36 PM CDT
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apparently
a lot of people are fooled. Soriano has always been willing to do what Lou has asked him to do.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 1:38 PM CDT
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So you're cool with
his first game back being the ASG?
by TheRamZamDLEE on
Jul 6, 2008 1:39 PM CDT
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absolutely.
if he’s ready to play, he’s ready to play. If we could get him back earlier, I’d do that. It all hinges on him being READY—which he was NOT, the last time he came back off the DL.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 1:43 PM CDT
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Did you read that article?
He sounds like he’s pumped about playing in New York, ya know cause the Yanks traded him away.
FTA: The Cubs have been known to tiptoe around in deference to Soriano’s wishes. Now they need to plant their feet and stand their ground.
But this this is the guy who’s been willing to do whatever the team asks of him.
by TheRamZamDLEE on
Jul 6, 2008 1:49 PM CDT
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I read the article. I disagree with your assessment. He wants to play where he played before, sure. But helping the NL win the ASG is good for the Cubs.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 1:50 PM CDT
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Agree on that
I just want what’s best for the boys in blue, as I’m sure you do.
by TheRamZamDLEE on
Jul 6, 2008 1:54 PM CDT
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sure.
I’ll state for the record that if Lou and the staff DON’T think he’s ready, they should NOT let him play.
The same goes for Soto, Dome, ARam, Woody, Z and Demp.
But if they CAN play, I WANT them to play.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 1:58 PM CDT
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Dumb logic by Lou
The Cardinals, as a team, are OPS-ing 775 vs. lefties and 772 vs. righties. So technically they’re better against lefties. Not that a .003 difference in team OPS is really meaningful. Just sayin’.
by kanderber on Jul 6, 2008 12:47 PM CDT 0 recs
Todd Wellemeyer?
How in the heck does Dave Duncan work his magic with pitcher after pitcher after pitcher. Todd Wellemeyer had nothin’ going for him as a member of the Cubs, Marlins and Royals. But Duncan gets his hands on the guy, and POOF !
Diehard: All right, Hendry, let's see how you improve the ballclub mid-season.
Hendry: What coordinates, sir?
Diehard: [annoyed] Coordinates?
Hendry: Yes, sir, they determine where the the ballclub is...
Diehard: Soldier, the Cubs have spent a lot of money teaching you to fire off a trade. Now set and fire.
by MDBNIU on Jul 6, 2008 12:52 PM CDT 0 recs
you should root for them, then.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 12:55 PM CDT
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I guess we're not even allowed to show any admiration for another manager or coach
lots of rules to become familiar with
by bluekoolaide on
Jul 6, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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BlueMike doesn't show admiration
for the Cardinals. He is their biggest fan. It’s a subtle fandom, but there’s been a very predictable pattern and I’ve finally sussed it out—he roots for the Cardinals, and against the Cubs.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 1:14 PM CDT
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Sorry but that's just silly-
expressing admiration for an extremely well run organization is not the same as rooting for them. And he’s right about what he said-the Cards coaching and talent evaluation is first rate-the mileage that they’ve gotten out of this team is nothing short of spectacular. I hate the Cardinals but that doesn’t stop me from giving credit where it’s due.
by bluekoolaide on
Jul 6, 2008 1:35 PM CDT
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you're free
to disagree. That doesn’t change what I believe having observed him over the past several months. He doesn’t like ANYTHING the Cubs do.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 1:36 PM CDT
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The thing that I don't get
is this “anti Blue Mike” obsession that some people seem to have. It’s like the guy can’t make a single statetemt without the same people jumping down his throat. Even when he’s not on, people seem to be waiting for him. I know that everybody needs a villain but sometimes this starts to seem ridiculous.
by bluekoolaide on
Jul 6, 2008 1:47 PM CDT
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he reaps
what he sows.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on
Jul 6, 2008 1:49 PM CDT
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But Duncan couldn't rescue Ankiel
as a pitcher… was he just too far gone?
by ChipSet on
Jul 6, 2008 1:36 PM CDT
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Is this going to be the All-Star selection show thread
Immediately preceding the game at 7pm (oops, I mean 1pm Chicago time)? I presume it’s on TBS, though I’ll be watching on AFN|Prime Atlantic
There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!
by sanantonecub on Jul 6, 2008 12:54 PM CDT 0 recs
I'm Glad Soriano wants to play in the ASG.
I think anyone who is voted in by the fans should be honored and show the respect back to the fans and the game by being excited to play. I’m sure if he is asked/told not to play- he won’t. I want him to hurry back into the line up and help the Cubs win. I am very dubious of the way it has been reported that Soriano is putting his desire to play in the ASG ahead of what’s good for his health and the team. Soriano is a gamer and would play before he is 100% as we have seen in the past, but we have also seen that he does what he is told. The way this issue has been reported is, in my opinion, trumped up and slanted to make something out of very little.
"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher
by The Lip on Jul 6, 2008 1:03 PM CDT 0 recs
My cable
My cable is down any word on Cubs all stars
Go Cubs
by cubstoseriesby100 on Jul 6, 2008 1:16 PM CDT 0 recs
Only the AL Starters have been announced
The other 14 minutes of the broadcast has been a Josh Hamilton love-fest.
There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!
by sanantonecub on
Jul 6, 2008 1:19 PM CDT
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I don't think Josh Hamilton's story can be told enough...
If his story of overcoming drug and alcohol addiction can help other people, I hope he tells it every day!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on
Jul 6, 2008 1:20 PM CDT
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The only thing that bothers me
It’s a nice story but I don’t like when it’s compared to others overcoming bad injuries or cancer. There’s a big difference in my mind.
Go Cubs
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Jul 6, 2008 1:22 PM CDT
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One good thing
Otherwise it would be a 14 minutes on the Yankees who got in and those that didn’t.
Go Cubs
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Jul 6, 2008 1:23 PM CDT
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They have been announced on MLB.com
Fukudome, Soto and Soriano are starters
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on
Jul 6, 2008 1:20 PM CDT
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Thank
Thanks are reserves also announced today?
Go Cubs
by cubstoseriesby100 on
Jul 6, 2008 1:22 PM CDT
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If you can get on BCB, you can
National League
C: Geovany Soto, CHC
1B: Lance Berkman, HOU
2B: Chase Utley, PHI
SS: Hanley Ramirez, FLA
3B: Chipper Jones, ATL
LF: Alfonso Soriano, CHC
CF: Kosuke Fukudome, CHC
RF: Ryan Braun, MIL
American League
C: Joe Mauer, C
1B: Kevin Youkilis, BOS
2B: Dustin Pedroia, BOS
SS: Derek Jeter, NYY
3B: Alex Rodriguez, NYY
LF: Manny Ramirez, BOS
CF: Ichiro Suzuki, SEA
RF: Josh Hamilton, TEX
DH: David Ortiz, NYY (will not play, 15-day DL)
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on
Jul 6, 2008 1:22 PM CDT
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WOW!
Both Fukodome and Bran beat out Griffey!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on
Jul 6, 2008 1:23 PM CDT
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