Maybe Halladay? If not, then maybe Harden?
by Cub Style on Jul 7, 2008 12:48 AM CDT
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PrintI know Halladay has not been rumored to be available, but doesn't it seem logical for the Jays to move him. Over 11 seasons as a Blue Jay, they have not once made the playoffs. Now this team is in last place of an amazing division, the logical thing would be to deal your high value players and rebuild for the future. So hey let's take a look at what Halladay might cost us.
Prospective Deals:
Tony Thomas Jr, Donny Veal, Eric Patterson/Tyler Colvin, Josh Donaldson/Jake Fox, and Marquez Smith for Roy "Doc" Halladay.
Here's how I look at this, Thomas Jr. can possibly move to SS or Hill can(I know I'm being a little optimistic), Smith can give another option for the future at the corners than Ahrens, Donaldson or Fox can do the same as Smith but with Arencibia, Patterson or Colvin can be a MLB ready replacement if they deal Wells or decide to trash Lind, and Veal gives them a power arm. They do have Snider coming up in the OF and guys like Ahrens and Arencibia as well but they have not been progressing as well as they should, IMO.
Tony Thomas Jr, Donny Veal, Eric Patterson, Jake Fox, and Marquez Smith for Harden.
Another situation where I could see a Thomas Jr. position switch. Smith gives the A's one thing their system lacks, a good 3B prospect, Patterson and Fox give them MLB ready bats, and Veal is yet again the power arm.
My logic my be flawed here so please feed me your thoughts.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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You forgot a huge part of this.
1. What do the Blue Jays need in their organization, top-down?
2. Can the Cubs meet those needs, or at least outweigh the value Halladay gives them?
The fact that they haven’t reached the playoffs for a while doesn’t mean they’re all of a sudden going to move Halladay. What’s different about not making the playoffs this year? If they’re going to move him, don’t you think they would’ve traded him a DL stint or two ago when his value was at its peak?
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
They do, as we also do,
need a SS. I think Theriot would be an appealing part of an offer…..however, I just don’t know if dreaming about having Halliday is a good thing as I have seen no indication that he is available.
by crazymountain on Jul 7, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Halladay is under contract for a nice price in '09 and '10.
If the Jays trade Halladay, they are saying they won’t contend until ‘11. As long as JP is the GM, they won’t say that.
What If JP Gets Canned By July 31?
Not saying he will…but if it happens then do the untradeables suddenly become tradeables?
Eat More Katsui
First move trading Halladay?
Not a chance – I don’t think any sane person would do that.
Plus, as bad as JP is, I think he will still be around on the 31st.
by madeindetroit on Jul 7, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Why on Earth would the Jays want Jake Fox?
He’s roster filler, will probably be released after this season.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
We'll see.
Remember Han Soto was roster filler until he put it together last year. The improvements he has made in his game are staggering, both offensively & defensively.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 7, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Offensively?
At Iowa Fox is hitting .222/.242/.479 and he’s playing almost exclusively 1B. He’ll be 26 in a couple of weeks.
He’s basically a poor man’s Micah Hoffpauir.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I was talking about Soto's improvements offensively
not Fox.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 7, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Please don't try and compare Soto and Fox as prospects
Soto was 24 when he turned it around. Fox is 26 and not turning it around in AA. Soto is also a catcher, Fox is a corner guy. Age and position matter.
Fox has no trade value. Jason Dubois is at least hitting the ball in AAA. He would have more trade value than Fox and you know how much trade value Dubois has.
Oh, I get it now.
Yes, of course Soto’s improvements have been dramatic.
Fox, OTOH, is about done.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Not a chance that the Jays take that pile for Halladay
Halladay is a healthy ace under contract for 2 more years. Sabathia as a pending free agent and still brought a top 50 prospect plus others. You are trading a bunch of middling prospects for one of the best pitchers in baseball. Sorry, it won’t happen.
This is my gut reaction as well.
Nonetheless, I have a certain admiration for those who come up with specific trade scenarios like this and are brave enough to cast themselves upon the sharpened spears of the knowledgable baseball public. For those about to speculate, I salute you!
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Heard Beane wants a kings' ransom
for Harden. But the Cubs have to be intrigued with his numbers even while being cautious of his injury potential. His WHIP, BAA and ERA are very good, while K/BB is good.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Let's focus on things that will really make the team better:
Another strong bullpen arm, and better defense in the middle infield.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
Signing Cashner IS adding a strong bullpen arm
as the scouting reports I have seen say he is MLB bullpen ready. We STILL, if Cashner pans out need a SS that has some range to his left, can catch perfect pegs from the catcher, etc….. Theriot is a good singles hitter, good for hit and run situations but that is all. I think that the Bucs would give up Wilson. Halliday is a dream, we couldn’t get him.
by crazymountain on Jul 7, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
"if Cashner pans out need a" SHOULD read
“if Cashner pans out WE need a”
by crazymountain on Jul 7, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Sigh
Yet another plethora of “trade proposals” that have as their basis the Cubs dazzling Toronto with quantity over quality for an ace caliber starter in Roy Halladay.
You can package all the Matt Murtons, Jake Foxs and Eric Pattersons together you want. They STILL won’t come close to acquiring a frontline starting pitcher.
Diehard: All right, Hendry, let's see how you improve the ballclub mid-season.
Hendry: What coordinates, sir?
Diehard: [annoyed] Coordinates?
Hendry: Yes, sir, they determine where the the ballclub is...
Diehard: Soldier, the Cubs have spent a lot of money teaching you to fire off a trade. Now set and fire.
then
drop it. If we don’t have the pieces to get an invalid like Harden, then we don’t have the pieces. So STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.
"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08
by drewishdrewid on Jul 7, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
It took BlueMike around...
...three months to realize the Cubs don’t have the trading pieces for Harden. On that basis, I would predict about four to six weeks of posts like the one above. Pack an umbrella, folks.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Don't think...
...anything will happen, at least for a starter. We have two All-Stars, folks (Zambrano and Dempster) at the front of our rotation. Lilly has a strong track record, Marquis is questionable but is passable as a #4 or #5, and ditto for Marshall/Gallagher. And don’t get me started on the potential “help from within” that Rich Hill (if he has indeed figured it out, which reports indicate he has) potentially offers. Remember – Hill was pretty phenomenal last year.
If Hendry makes a deal, it’s for relief pitching, and maybe for a SS to allow Lou to shift Theriot to 2B and split time with DeRosa, or move DeRosa to super-sub status, etc. But we should be looking at relievers….I think we could land a Mahay or Fuentes to solidify the bullpen for a reasonable price in prospects.
Why would you want Theriot to split time with DeRosa?
DeRo has an .843 OPS and you want to take ABs away from him and give them to Riot, a guy with a .755 OPS??? Oh, and DeRo doesn’t drop perfect throws from the C, whether he’s playing SS or 2B.
I’m glad you’re not the Cubs’ manager.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Maybe He/She Means
that Theriot can play 2B on the days DeRo spells ARam at 3rd or Soriano in LF.
Eat More Katsui
That's not what it sounded like.
Why would you move a guy who’s having a career year (DeRosa) to supersub status? Ridiculous.
If the Cubs do make a deal it’ll be for pitching help, whether bullpen or starting. I’m leaning toward starting.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
We're not getting Halladay
I like Roy Halladay, maybe it’s because of the cool nickname or the fact that he’s an excellent pitcher. I would love it if he were a Cub. That said, it’s not happening. What impetus do the Jays have for dealing him? Dealing Burnett makes sense given that he’ll likely walk away anyway. Dealing Halladay doesn’t given that he’s under team control, they can afford him, he’s a legitimate ace and he’s not overpaid. They would have to get back some very big pieces for their near future if they were to deal Doc, and we don’t have or cannot afford to give them those pieces. I could see them doing a deal for maybe Soto and Marmol, but not for the also-rans that you included in your post. Just not happening.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey
Of course we're not getting Roy Halladay
The mentally stable among us (few as they are) understand this.
Get Rich Harden, Tim Hudson or AJ Burnett RIGHT NOW !!! No more living in denial and rationalizing away the holes on this pitching staff. No more Luvable Loser syndrome getting in the way of gunning for a World Series.
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