CUBS AQUIRE HARDEN FROM A'S FOR SEAN GALLAGHER
by mrmaroon25 on Jul 8, 2008 5:36 PM CDT
Email
PrintJust saw this on Comcast SportsNet, can't find a link anywhere, they have a press conference with Hendry up right now.
Hopefully this'll end up being a good deal for us - I had high hopes for gallagher, but Hendry usually knows what he's doing.
Get to 75 words, typing typing typing. Get to 75 words, typing typing typing. Get to 75 words, typing typing typing. Get to 75 words, typing typing typing. Get to 75 words, typing typing typing.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
267 comments
|
4 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Actually, how about not...
for those of us who prefer not to go through 1800 posts for the news of of the day.
by Damen Jackson on Jul 8, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I like it
Gallagher has big upside, but Gaudin isn’t chopped liver. Even if Harden goes down with an injury next season, Gaudin could start. And for now, he can use his wicked slider in the pen. Donaldson is extraneous behind Soto and Castillo.
I wasn’t a fan of acquiring Harden for someone like Vitters or Pie, plus Gallagher. But getting another young pitcher in the deal makes it well worth it.
All hail Blue Jim!
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Just heard it in Des Moines
talk radio. WOW! That was a fast response to CC. Let’s HOPE TO HELL it turns out like Sutcliffe, but with a world series berth!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Interesting point...
what do you guys think? Best rotation in NL 1 through 5? How about AL too?
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 8, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Not in the AL
Lackey, Santana, Saunders, Weaver and Garland are the best 1-5 in baseball.
Of course, we have some hitters too. I can guarantee you that if a Cub pitcher throws a no-hitter, we’re going to win the damn game.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
I think at least
we have a top 3 rotation in the majors. In a playoff series only Zambarno Harden will be pitching for us probably for the exception on one start which will be Ryan Dempster. I like our chances with that, especially if Dempster’s one start during the series is at home.
I may give us that
Marquis at the bottom drags us down a bit.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 8, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
it will be intresting to see if they keep Marshall in (which is what I think they should do) and what they will do with Marquis whether they send him to the minors, send him to the bullpen or try and trade him and his terrible contract.
Yes
yes, yes, yes, yes, Y-E-S. So much for the Brew Crew to the series….......now just hope for continued good health…..
get the brew out
i propose a toast!!! heres to staying healthy cubbies and 1 upping the garbage ass brewers!!
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
unbelievable trade
gallagher will be ok and who knows what donaldson will be but we hardly gave up that much for harden and gaudin….....gaudin doesn’t look like he’s too bad either. makes me wonder if marquis is going to end up going somewhere…
YESSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am besides myself happy
Cubs get Rich Harden !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We got an ace !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gotta give it to you, Mike.
You had this one pegged from the start, and caught a lot of shit for it.
Ah but just how right was he?
Here he tells Unique that the asking price for Harden is WAAAYYY higher than E-Patt, Veal, Marshall, Gallagher, and Castillo (which is way more than we gave).
He said Beane would laugh at the deal. He made a lot of posts like that.
Here he claims – with authority, as usual – that Beane will absolutely not move Harden until the July 31st trade deadline.
Mike!
I thought you said we didn’t have the prospects?
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
LOL
talk about a mind f**k…
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun
OK buddy, you caught a lot of shit on this one
Let’s hear it from you dude! You called it…I was a little leary. Let’s say the Cubbies go get themselves a division championship then 11 wins in the post season.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
I'm happy about the trade...
but let’s see him make it healthy through the playoffs.. .then MDBNIU gets props.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 8, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
All the people that talked shit to you
now have absolutely squat to say.
"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk
-1
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 8, 2008 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah but just how right was he?Here he tells Unique that the asking price for Harden is WAAAYYY higher than E-Patt, Veal, Marshall, Gallagher, and Castillo (which is way more than we gave).
He said Beane would laugh at the deal. He made a lot of posts like that.
Here he claims – with authority, as usual – that Beane will absolutely not move Harden until the July 31st trade deadline.
by Wreckard on Jul 8, 2008 11:42 PM CDT
New rotation
The new rotation just got better no question, but when will Harden pitch now. I know Lou likes to go R-L-R-L-R but I’m not sure how it will look with harden being a righty. Rotation will look just plain sick if Hill gets his head straight and finds the strike zone
Z
Lilly
Harden
Hill
Demp
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 5:52 PM CDT reply actions
Let the Hill thing go... it's ain't happening
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 8, 2008 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
You think he's done forever, or just this season?
I’m still not sure what’s shakin around in his head.
"I tell you, Steve Blass, you pitch me inside, they never, never find that ball."
-Roberto Clemente
whos left
after cc—burnett,harden and couple others. a gm’s job is to try to pluck the best players off the market for his team. jim hendry go take your self a vacation sir cause you just did a helluva job. IF harden stays healthy we got a steal of a deal. whats harden contract status??
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
Not Exactly
Club option for $7M next year for a total of 1 1/2 years
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 8, 2008 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Will he pitch for us soon?
I’m in chicago for Fri-Sat. Somebody tell me he is going to pitch then!!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
He should pitch Friday!
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
I was just checking the A's
web site and saw he was scheduled to go Friday. I just hope he goes then or Saturday and I can see him pitch! Wow, I’m excited!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Contract
I believe that Harden will be under team control through at least the end of next year
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 5:54 PM CDT reply actions
omg
am I one happy man. we gave up nothing and got harden. i’m beside myself happy woooooooooohoooooooooo!!
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
Holy !@#$%
What a deal, and they got Chad Gaudin, nicely done Hendry
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3478902
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Gaudin is a sleeper pick
I was sad to see Oakland’s sixth starter go. He’s young, has great stuff and a lot of talent.
I’ll miss him too.
Green Hulk Fists
Wow!
Please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt, please don’t get hurt!
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
crossing eyes and spitting
while knocking on wood with a rabbit’s foot
"Cubs Win!!"
by northofwrigley on Jul 8, 2008 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Jul 8, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Zambrano and Harden
That is one helluva good 1-2 punch. As good or better than anybody in baseball. Rich Harden is a diamond carat stud. I fainted upon seeing the Comcast report.
Cubs get Rich Harden !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We got an ace !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another Benefit
Of the trade is that it pushed off MDB’s stupid attempt at humor
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 8, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
a little bit of a stretch to say their the best 1-2 punch in the bigs
i know we are all die hard cub fans, but with combo’s like webb/haren, sheets/sabathia, beckett/dice-k, and lackey/saunders/santana/weaver, I think we have one of the strongest rotations in the bigs and probably the best offense to go along with it. i am crossing my fingers that harden can stay healthy, unfortunately, with the skeletons of wood and prior in the closet, i have a hard believing he can.
rotoworld
The Cubs have acquired Rich Harden from the Athletics in a six-player deal.
The Cubs will also get Chad Guadin from the A’s in exchange for RHP Sean Gallagher, outfielder Matt Murton, infielder Eric Patterson and catcher Josh Donaldson. If Harden can stay healthy, and that’s a huge “if,” the deal fills the Cubs’ biggest need on the heels of Milwaukee signing C.C. Sabathia earlier this week. Harden is 5-1 with a 2.34 ERA in 13 starts this season, and has 92 strikeouts in 77 innings, but he did spend a month on the disabled list. Gaudin is 5-3 with a 3.59 ERA, and will join Chicago’s bullpen.
"Cubs Win!!"
What a deal!
They have up spare parts for Harden, I cant believe it
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
-1
I think Gallagher is ALOT more than just a spare part. Plus I still think Murton & Patterson can be above average players. We’ll know who really won the trade in 5 years.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 8, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
No
If we win the World Series this year with help from Harden then we win the deal. No more evidence required.
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey
win, win
Cubs need to win now with the pieces they have. Players like Harden and Gaudin can put you over the top.
The A’s went into this year rebuilding for the move to Fremont, and I am confident two of the four players coming from the Cubs in the trade will be good, if not great in the majors.
With those shifting priorities, both came out on top.
Go Cubbies!! Go A’s!!
Green Hulk Fists
If the Cubs win ...
THIS YEAR....
the Cubs got the better end of the trade
The best defense is a good offense
I think we all like Gallagher
But hes no harden, and i think there are other guys in the system who could take his role on equally as well. Murton is no more than a backup OF, he just doesnt offer much other than OBP and a decent avg, so Oakland might be the perfect fit for him.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Who "won" the trade?
A trade isn’t a competition. It’s a cooperation. It is designed to let both parties “win”. True, sometimes one side comes out worse in the end because of injuries or non-performing prospects. Oftentimes, both sides get want they want (and rid themselves of what they don’t want).
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
Exactly
Beane got what he wanted: Sean Gallagher and a bunch of bodies before Rich Harden broke down again and he got nothing. The Cubs got what they waned—a potential ace that gives them a chance to go deep in the playoffs if he stays healthy, without giving up the farm.
Now sure, we wish Harden would have a better injury profile, but if he did he’d be CC Sabathia and we couldn’t afford him.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like the signature
(Off to check if Borowy wore #40 too….)
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
Borowy wore 26
I looked it up for you. Manager Charlie Grimm was #40.
Of course, he was so great they retired number 26 for him. :-)
I imagine Larry Rothschild is going to have to pick a new number.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah
I think a great thing about the trade is that they were really mostly spare parts. Not necessarily all in the sense that they aren’t good, but that they really didn’t fit. Obviously, Gallagher doesn’t fit this, but Murton was blocked and so was a 22 year old Donaldson. Patterson was a question mark that would only have fit if he could play 2nd base or CF, and both those positions for him were question marks, and so was his offense to a lesser extent.
Awesome Awesome Awesome
Now if we give up Marquis and aquire Maddux somehow, it will be all sunshine and rainbows.
Rock Over London, Rock on Chicago!
Wow
Just about 20 minutes ago I was furious that Gallagher was gone now I have finally realized what a steal Hendry got. Gaudin and Harden Jim Hendry is a GENIUS. Manager of the year needs to go to Billy Beane for taking such a bad deal in order to allow the Cubs to win the World Series.
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:00 PM CDT reply actions
Gaudin can even start too
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Indeed
I do hope Marquis gets released. Marshall/Gaudin deserve to start, but I don’t see it happening unless Marquis is traded off (which is unlikely).
YOU....
CAN NEVER HAVE...too much pitching….Marquis isn’t going anywhere w/o another GOOD starter/long releiver coming back….
Perhaps aa “straigh up” Marquis for Maddux w/ San Diego….
The best defense is a good offense
Lieber, Gaudin, Marshall
are there and should be higher in the depth chart. And our minor league pitchers probably wouldn’t be that much worse even if those 3 got injured too: Hart, Hill, Veal, Shark?, Wells?
Righty
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 8, 2008 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
oh god oh god
i cant believe this--tell me this is true!! i havent been this happy ever!! i got freaking chills up and down my spine--tears in my eyes-i cant believe this--wow wow wow—bring it on anyone in baseball babbyyyyyyyy. i’m pumpedddddddddddddddd
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
Marquis
I’m certainly not as much of a Marquis hater as many Cubs fans are becuase I know when he is pitching well he is a really good pitcher but I don’t see how the Cubs would keep him around now because Gaudin or Marshall would make a better #5 than Marquis do to their consistency over Marquis
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:03 PM CDT reply actions
My point, MArquis doesn't deserve to be on the Cubs starting 5
I seriously want Gaudin/Marshall to start.
Wonderful
This is a wonderful deal. Gallagher will be a solid starter, but Harden is still young, and can be absolutely dominant. Yes, he’ll have to stay healthy, but he’s ours for another season and unlike Milwaukee, we have the resources to hang on to him forever. Gaudin is also a very serviceable piece from the pen. A great day to be a fan.
2 Questions
1- Now theres a free roster spot right, with 3 going out and 2 coming in?
2-Is Harden our 8th all-star now?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Did Harden even make the all star team?
I don’t think so.
Yeah
I wonder how they’ll handle the league change
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I thought he was, maybe Im wrong, sorry.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
He kinda has incentive to throw some meatballs up for the NL
if he plays for the AL….that’s a weird situation.
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
#1
wasn’t Patterson sent down to Iowa about a week ago?
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 8, 2008 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Gaudin
Gaudin is a righty unfortunately.
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:05 PM CDT reply actions
Doesnt matter
He is tough on the left handers anyways. He is probably option A over Wuertz.
cards blog
their saying there packing it in over there!! yesssss-—-harey carey is somewhere up there belting out holyyyyyyy cow!!!
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
This is a win win
Its clear they had no use or intent to use Murton or Patterson, and Donaldson is expendable b/c of Soto, so its essentially a Gallagher for Harden
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Add this one to the Hendry trades list
and let’s revisit that discussion in October.
"Whoo, boy! Next time around, bring me back my stomach!" -Jack Brickhouse
no negativity on this blog
for weeks please——woooooooooohoooooooo
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
Pie
I’m really glad Pie didn’t get involved in this deal even if he isn’t helping the big league club right now he’s still only 22 and will hopefully someday learn how to hit or at least not strike out.
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:08 PM CDT reply actions
Good Point
Im really shocked he or vitters etc wasnt involved.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
If they were
Gallagher wouldn’t be. Only oner of those 3 would be involved in a deal. Vitters probably would never be in that deal.
I am just so happy there aren't words to describe it
Rich Harden. I still cant’ believe it. And mark my word Chuck Gaudin (once he gets healthy) will be significant addition to the bullpen. This is a double barrel shot to the pitching staff.
Cubs get Rich Harden !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We got an ace !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woo Hoo!!!!!!
Great job by Hendry! If you want to see this from the Oakland side, go to the A’s blog Athletics Nation, lots of ppl are not happy over there. Well time to turn up the music, wave goodbye to the Dirty Birds and the brew crew too…. :) Go Cubs Go!
"My favorite umpire is a dead one."
-Johnny Evers
Great Trade!!
Gallagher was a solid, but the others didn’t fit on this cubs club anyway. Considering our goal is to win this year, with the best cubs team in a long time, how can you not like this trade. Sure Harden has been on the DL enough to make anyone nervous… but this upside is 1) 2.34 ERA, .207 BAA, 1.14 WHIP, 91 SO to 31BB…. 2) 26 yrs old…. 3) Option next year thats reasonable. So if he doesnt get hurt, we just got alot better at the top of the rotation. Just think of him as a ben sheets equivlent. Great when he’s not on the DL, and due for a big second half
I hate work
I hate work I can’‘t turn on espn to watch and I want to so bad
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:18 PM CDT reply actions
I can’t help but think of the future with Z being only 27 and Harden being 26 hopefully they are both around for awhile
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:20 PM CDT reply actions
Well done, Jim Hendry.
First, the timing was excellent. This trade deflected any psychological edge the Brewers might have gotten in the press after they acquired Sabathia.
Second, the Cubs didn’t have to give up top prospects for Harden. We all know what Gallagher, Murton and Patterson could do, and the young catcher wasn’t really needed now. I’m glad that those guys I just mentioned will find a place to play and show if they are really ML caliber players. Give Hendry credit for helping those players.
Finally, the key is Gaudin. He replaces Gallagher in value and serves as back-up in case Harden doesn’t last through the season. Even in that unfortunate scenario, the Cubs got someone valuable in the deal (Gaudin).
Hendry got more than expected out of this trade while giving up less than what was predicted. Once again, thanks, Mr. Hendry.
Gallagher and Patterson
Were top prospects according to Baseball America .... both made several top 100 lists in the last couple of years.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jul 8, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
can a die hard cubs fan
get a toast???? wow i’m happy
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
I'm just thinking ahead, don't mind me. But...
Zambrano – Harden – Dempster
Do I smell dominance in the playoffs? Best big 3 we’ve had in awhile. Better than the Prior – Wood – Zambrano combo.
My new life, my new world, and my beautiful daughter:
Tamia London Davis: Due date (8-11-08)!
Addding another "ace".....
Just makes Lily/Dempster much better 3/4’s…......
The best defense is a good offense
Expensive, but probably worth it.
I hate to loose Gallagher and E-Pat (I hate to loose Murton too, but he was probably going to get traded anyway).
Plus, I’ve been high on Chad Gaudin for a while now, and picking him up doesn’t suck
Not really that expensive
We gave up Gallagher, who’s probably going to have a long career but isn’t likely to be an ace and for us, Harden (or Gaudin, if Harden gets hurt) replaces him for this season anyway.
Murton and Patterson are two more solid players with limited upsides. Very valuable to Oakland, who can plug them into a lineup, but blocked by Soriano and DeRosa (and, urgh, Fontenot, who I shouldn’t speak ill of tonight) here.
Donaldson is a guy with a lot of upside, but he’s in Peoria and he’s struggling. He’d be blocked by Soto here as well, even if he did manage to put it all together.
We gave up nothing we can’t replace.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 8, 2008 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Agreed 100%
People may not like the deal due to Harden’s injury risk but this was not an expensive deal. Murton and E-Pat are likely going to be nothing but role players. Gallagher will likely be a solid middle rotation starter and Donaldson is a sstruggling cathcer in A ball.
I actually like Patterson
And it looks like my “Free Eric Patterson” campaign has succeeded. He’s been freed.
I think Patterson can be a starting major league second baseman. What I don’t believe is that he’ll be better than Mark DeRosa, especially this year or next. So it wasn’t like he was ever going to get a chance here.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 8, 2008 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Triple reced
I really liked seeing that cool green reced post earlier. :P
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
Agreed about Donaldson
I saw him in peoria for two games a couple weeks ago and thought the same thing, never going to break with Soto playing as well as he is now and in to the future. Did happen to sit directly behind his gf/s.o. and she will definitely be missed in Peoria.
"Look at it this way: If you're a Cubs fan, the Greatest Day of Your Life is yet to come." ~ Cubs Forever
Line-up
Sorry this is off topic but does anybody know where today’s lineup is posted at yet. It would usually be up on Yahoo by now but it’s not
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:34 PM CDT reply actions
expensive
we gave up nothing but a maybe in gallagher. epat,murton, and donaldson type players are a dime a dozen. gallagher maybe, might ,could be ,next year blah blah blah. were in a WIN mode finally. hendry said hey melvin i see your call and raise you—-all in!!!! hendry is gm of the decade!!
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
I hate giving up Gallagher
I think he’ll be a stud and the key to this trade is if Harden if damaged goods. If he is healthy and can help the team then it is a good deal, if not, well we just spent a lot on Ernie Broglio .
Harden is 26 and has a record of 16-19 in parts of 6 years with the A’s. I just don’t know if I like the deal. How fragile is this guy?
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Jul 8, 2008 6:35 PM CDT reply actions
please please
gallagher is a next year guy. were in this year. finally in my life were in a win now mode. no wait til next year crap like he might be good next year blah blah blah.
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
EXACTLY!
WIN NOW! I’ve waited 29 long years. Others have waited MUCH longer. GO CUBS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
You gotta give to get....
Here’s to a Cubs vs. A’s WS
The best defense is a good offense
by kcjones on Jul 8, 2008 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
16-19?
Not sure where that record came from but Harden is 35-18 career with a 3.49 ERA
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:37 PM CDT reply actions
You're closer than I am
according to baseball reference he is 36-19. I think I need blow up the fonts. But I still am not sure his comps through age 25 look like this:
1. Rick Aguilera (978)
2. Dennis Leonard (976)
3. Joey Hamilton (976)
4. Chan Ho Park (974)
5. Doug Drabek (972)
6. Ownie Carroll (971)
7. Barry Latman (970)
8. Pedro Astacio (968)
9. Gene Conley (967)
10. Andy Hawkins (967)
Some useful but not great pitchers and his closest comp at age 24 was the above mentioned Ernie Broglio.
Baseball is too much of a sport to be a business and too much of a business to be a sport.
William Wrigley Jr
by bubbamike the one and only on Jul 8, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
FUCK YEA!
I must agree its not my proudest moment, but this is one thing ive been alongside BLUE MIKE with forver and have wanted Harden forever!
FUCK YEA
SO HAPPY!
My 08 Cubs record 7-0
Updated June 01
This trade is so good (for the Cubs) it scares me.
Maybe it’s because I only read Moneyball a couple of months ago, but I have to wonder if Beane knows something we don’t, because on the face of things, this was a pretty bad deal for him.
"And heeeere cooome the pretzels!"
Beane on Harden
I think Beane realizes that Harden is one injury away from being worth absolutely zero. The guy has been on the DL seven times in six years (sounds familiar). We only need one magical half from him (again, sound familiar). Great trade for both teams. A’s get guys they can plug in immediately, Cubs get a front end Ace when healthy.
Good luck to Murton, EPat, and Gallagher in Oakland. There just wasn’t room for them on the Cubbies.
Absolutely
he’s trying to cash out his chips on Harden.
On the other hand, for us, we just need Harden to stay healthy until the end of October.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 8, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Rephrased
We only need Harden healthy at the end of October. I think we make the playoffs even if he makes two trips to the DL between now and then.
He doesn't have to be perfect.....
Just make ssome startss and be on the playoff roster :)....Z skipped a couple of starts thsi year too…and IMMDFM….Prior missed starts in 03
The best defense is a good offense
False.
We have to beat the Brewers and Cards first.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
We're already beating them both.
And we will almost certainly only need to beat just one of the two.
Anyway, I’m confident that the team is good enough to reach the playoffs even if Harden makes only 2 more regular season starts.
by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 6:57 AM CDT up reply actions
You do realize we have just under half a season to play, right?
And Milwaukee just got a great pitcher, right?
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
Yes, I do follow baseball from time to time.
Yes, I realize it. I’m just very confident in this Cubs team. We may lose the division to Milwaukee, but St. Louis is no threat and the wild card will likely come from the Central. We could pull a 2007 Mets. It could happen. I just don’t see it from this team. They’re a very good team.
Bye Bye Orange Guy
No one willing to write anything about how we’ll miss Matt Murton?
BTW, orange clashes with green almost as badly as with blue.
I'll miss Murton.
Don’t get me wrong, he needed to go – didn’t have the right skill set for this team. But I always rooted for the guy, and I hope he does well in Oakland.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Exactly.
I always liked him, and Gallagher…I even liked EPat when he wasn’t dropping balls in Left…I will cheer for all of them for a long time to come.
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
Yeah, I liked Gallagher a lot, too.
THE SLEDGEHAMMER – I BID THEE FAREWELL!!!
I’m a little on the fence about EPatt. He definitely seems to have his head together a little more than Corey, and he’s got some impressve skills. But I have a feeling he wasn’t going to do much for this Cubs team when he did play, and I got the impression Lou wasn’t likely to give him a lot of playing time to work out his problems in the field and at the plate anyway.
Suffice to say, I’ll be watching the career paths of all the guys involved in this trade with great interest.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
you couldnt
beat a smile off my face with a bat!!!
Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!
Matt Murton
I am not ashamed to admit that I will for some strange miss Murton despite him being the red-headed stepchild of the Cubs
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:48 PM CDT reply actions
I agree.
Am glad he’ll get to play somewhere now though, he’s deserved a shot.
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
On the other hand
I will forever hate Murton if he goes to Oakland and somehow learns to hitting anything more than 200 feet
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Jul 8, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Murton fits the A's system
He works counts and makes contact. He won’t be expected to hit for power. I’ve always liked him. He’s hit close to .300 in the bigs yet never complained about being sent back and forth. He’s a class act and I think all Cubs fans should wish him well with his new team . . .
So happy for Murton
He wanted to be traded, he worked hard no matter where Cubs placed him. He deserves to be on a ML team and possibly play every day.
As for Gallagher, if he turns out to be excellent…well thankfully he won’t be pitching for NL any time soon.
Havent heard much lately
but when is Soriano due back? Still after ASB, cause I know there was word of the week before the ASB (now!)...
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...
After the ASB
Not decided if he will do a minor league rehab stint or not.
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
forgive me
If someone has already talked about this. But with all the guestions about Harden’s injuries, Will he have to pass a physical in order for the trade to be complete. Overall though, I am thrilled to see this trade happen, and I still think we are better then the Brewers.
Wendyzman
That would be ...
ORGANIZATIONAL “MISCONDUCT” if the Cubs don’t have a physician or 3 look Harden over before making the deal….
The best defense is a good offense
Hendry said (and I'm paraphrasing here)...
...that the Cubs worked closely with A’s doctors regarding Harden’s physical condition.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
that's right
Hendry said the A’s were forthcoming about Hendry’s medical record and gave him and the Cub medical team complete access to Hendry’s doctors and medical history.
We never give up -- Aramis Ramirez
always important
that the A’s are upfront with Jim about his medical records
Can you imagine the trade talks?
Billy Beane: Jim we’ve taken a look at these echocardiography reports and frankly we’re a bit concerned
Jim Hendry: Billy I understand your concern, we’ll let you meet with my doctors tomorrow but can we please get back to this Rich Harden fellow?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
That made me smile
Good line.
But the Cubs and Oakland have a really good relationship. I doubt Beane would jeopardize it by trying to hide something on Harden’s medical record from Hendry.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
i see your point and i gathered that from the broadcast last night
but how “good” can Harden’s medical records really look right now? And how often do guys have this stuff updated? I mean are they taking snapshots of his shoulder after every outing?
You see drop in velocity in one start and then some command issues in the next start and with Harden’s injury history don’t you start to worry a little bit?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
You always worry
with a pitcher like Harden. The Cubs are walking into this with their eyes open, which is why they insisted upon Gaudin (or more accurately, the Cubs insisted upon Harden insurance if the Athletics wanted Gallagher, and Beane offered Gaudin.)
The Cubs are aware of his medical history. I’m sure the conversation went something like Beane saying “He’s healthy right now. I can’t make you any promises beyond that.”
I like what Joe Sheehan said today: this is a free lottery ticket for the Cubs. They don’t really need him, but if he pays off, they’ll hit the jackpot. And they didn’t give up anything they’ll really miss. Gallagher is the best player we lost, and he projects to be maybe a good #3 started if everything works out.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
i hate that description
its not a “Free” lottery ticket
there’s opportunity cost in not having those players. You can argue they weren’t highly sought after commodities i suppose, but they were chips and we now have less of them
i understand the reward outweighs the risk and i’m on board with that as the decision, but its completely asinine to suggest there’s no risk associated with the deal or that we got the guy for free. We paid a price and sure its not the price for a #1 starter on the trade market, but Harden isn’t a #1 starter.
The only part of the lottery ticket analogy i like is that you pay something for an incredibly small chance of hitting that jackpot. I think we paid something and I think we probably have a smaller chance than most of us are acting like right now at hitting that jackpot.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, but I disagree
I think you already believe that Harden is going to break down no matter what.
All we are asking for is for him to stay healthy for three months. I realize he’s had trouble doing that, but he’s been healthy for over two months now. Even if he misses a start or two, it’s worth it. It’s only not worth it if he breaks down after five starts and then he’s out for the season. Even then, that’s why we got Gaudin, who you seem to be ignoring. Gaudin was a decent #4 starter last season, which is about all Gallagher is right now.
Three of the four players in the deal likely had no future in Chicago. As far as Murton and Patterson goes, we’d run their value down to almost zero. You argue that we could have traded them for something else, but who? AJ Burnett, whose got a medical record as bad as Harden’s? Bedard, who isn’t medically clean either and has reported attitude issues?
Sure, you could try to trade those players in the off-season, but they’d probably all (except for Gallagher) have even less value then. Murton’s 26 and Patterson’s 25. They’re not getting any younger and their value pretty much decreases every day.
Donaldson is a real lottery ticket, but he plays a position where we’re pretty deep right now. And he’s been terrible all season and from what I’m hearing, the scouts who loved him last year don’t like him so much anymore. It’s not just a matter of him hitting in bad luck.
We’re going to just have to disagree on this one. I don’t think we gave up much of anything. When I got the email that the Cubs had gotten Harden, I couldn’t believe it when Wellington Castillo or Jose Ceda weren’t included (I knew the Cubs wouldn’t trade Vitters for Harden, although I was relieved to know I was right.) And the fact that Gaudin was included gives us Harden insurance. To me, that’s pretty damn close to free.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
i'm not assuming he's going to break down
but one year in 6 he’s topped 130 innings and he just had some “concerning signs” so yeah its a legitimate possibility and one that needs to be taken into account
and just for accuracy’s sake, Burnett has 4 seasons over 165 innings, so to say their medical history’s are comparable seems like a bit of a stretch
but yes, he’s someone they could’ve gone after. We also could’ve pursued someone in the off-season if we chose not to make a deal now. Regardless you can’t argue we gave up “nothing” and that its a “free” lottery ticket. You can argue that the price is cheaper than you would’ve expected, but that’s all you can really argue. FREE implies there was no cost associated with it and clearly there was a cost. You yourself suggest that there IS a way this deal wouldn’t be worth it, so THERE IS A COST
Again, i’m not arguing that the reward doesn’t outweigh the risk. I’m simply arguing that there was a cost associated with making the deal and there are some warning signs along with a track record that suggest this isn’t a “sure” thing
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
WHAT A FRIGGIN DEAL and this will lead to a second deal
Harden is a stud. He also does not have to be the savior or the horse. Also he is here for another year….watch the Cubs avoid FA with him as well. He will replace Marshall on the rotation for now. But watch for the following trade.
Marquis to SD for Maddux possibly the A’s throwin (Gauldin) as well. Marshall goes to the pen as the other lefty until Eyre comes back and then look out Lieber. That would set the Cubs staff up for the playoffs with a great amount of versatility
Piniella could use Marshall as a swing/long reliever over July/August especially if he wants to spot start in a stretch of 2 weeks when the Cubs play 14 games or so and he needs to rest a starter.
Maddux is the 5th starter and then they have the best rotation in the NL and possibly the MLB
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Hmmm...
I’d like to see Marquis and Wuertz (or $$$) for Maddux and leave Gaudin in the pen.
Starting Rotation:
Zambrano
Harden
Lilly
Demp
Maddux
by socalicubsfan on Jul 8, 2008 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
In fact, Gaudin was the whole sticking point for Hendry.
Beane was insisting on Gallagher from the start (all this from ESPN.com), and Hendry hesitated because giving up Gallagher would weaken the Cubs’ bullpen depth. Jim called Beane yesterday and said he was willing to give up Gallagher, but he needed something to replace the depth. Beane said he’d call Jim back, and when he did he suggested Gaudin. That was the key to the whole trade. So he was NO throw-in, and he won’t be a throw-in for a past-his-prime Greg Maddux either. Think Cesar Izturis. Marquis AND Gaudin would be WAY too much.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
What a response...
to the CC trade! I like it…I like it ALOT! Liked Murton and Gallagher, but hey, you gotta make this move. Great job Jim!
Harden + good health = DOMINANCE!!!
You ARE freaking out MAN!
Christmas in July!
If the past 9 Harden starts are any indication we’re in for an awesome ride the rest of the way folks. Gaudin makes this deal extra sweet, the guy is young, and already pretty good and ML ready. Nice job Hendry!
Go ahead, Z me.
LET FREEDOM RING
"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk
Im happy again
I was a little concerned when the Brewers got CC that we were maybe going to be out gunned in the pitching stakes, but these fears are erased now, and i’m no longer concerned, just looking forward to the rest of the season even more.
"Drink,Drugs and shagging models...the rest I wasted." George Best on where his millions went
Yikes!
I am very sad to see Gallagher go, but it sounds like this was a good trade for the Cubs. I am not familiar with Harden at all, though. Is he a power pitcher, finesse, somewhere in between. Please enlighten me.
Thanks in advance, and GO CUBS! :)
Dave
by Dave in the basement on Jul 8, 2008 7:41 PM CDT reply actions
We gave up quality
but Murton, Patterson, and Donaldson had no place on the Cubs. Gallagher will be a good #2 or 3 starter once he get over the big inning.
But the Cubs now have a 1 through 4 rotation that’s the best in the majors. Z, Harden, Dempster, and Lilly. If Hill comes back it will be 1 through 5. That’s the way world series are won.
A couple of thoughts
- From all things rumored it seems that McPhail wanted more for Roberts than what it took to get Harden.
- Hendry sold high on Gallagher: 22 year old who comes into the majors and does a solid enough job (leave average).
- It was going to take Gallagher to get a high end pitcher, there was no getting around that. Sometimes you take a risk on talent and sometimes on health. Like everybody had said previously, if there was any year to gamble, it was this.
- I’m glad there are no more Patterson’s in the Cubs system. Really.
- I thought it would take more to get Harden, way more. Especially since the Cubs got back another pitcher along with Harden.
- If Harden gets injured and Gallagher succeeds I would still think Hendry made the right deal. A risk, but a sensible risk (did not sell the farm) and this was the year to do it. The Cubs needed a high upside dominant type pitcher and he got one of the best (available or not). Just keep fingers crossed that he stays healthy.
- Great day to be a Cubs fan!
by Luis on Jul 8, 2008 7:48 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
+1
No one can really complain with the inclusion of Gaudin as a bonus. There was no way this was going to happen without Gallagher.
I'm very happy
the deal didn’t include Vitters. Over at Athletics Nation, they’re furious the deal didn’t included Vitters.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 8, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we really owe that to Cleveland
for bringing prices down. Beane did not get the Haren package or the Bedard package and I think you could call Bedard and Harden very comparable at the points they were traded.
Yeah, I noticed that.
I loved the dude who was like “Did they mispell Vitters?!”
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"
Wow, that was fast!
Nice to be able to steal Milwaukee’s thunder so quickly, and without giving up too much. Quite frankly I’m shocked that Beane didn’t ask for any real “top prospects” other than Gallagher.
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman
Me too
Hendry did sell high on Gallagher though… to come in to the majors at such a young age and not get hammered is definitely going to add points. I’m not familiar with Donaldson, but I sure won’t be missing Murton and Patterson.
On the flip side
Bean sold high on harden as well… cause another extended tripe to the DL and he is in jeopardy of not getting anything for him (although he was in club control through next year).
Harden = Prior?
ESPN’s Buster Olney compares Harden to Mark Prior in terms of being such a high-risk, high-reward type of pitcher. Although it pains me to say it, I think the comparison is somewhat apt. I’ll keep my fingers crossed that Harden doesn’t end up like Prior did…
Risk aside, this deal was too good to pass up from the Cubs’ perspective.
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman
6 trips to the DL in 6 years (or something like that)
Certainly makes them comparable.
One thing to point out though: usually dominating pitchers have arm issues. I know Harden has been to the DL a lot more than the normal power pitcher but still, I think the Cubs took the right gamble. I prefer this to getting a guy with solid but not dominating stuff who probably won’t get injured.
There is irony in the fact
that in the offseason we weren’t willing to pay 4 mill to risk the possibility that Mark Prior could be a shut-down pitcher for us in October. I’m guessing we saw the medical reports and saw the possibility was too, too slim. Hopefully we saw Harden’t medical reports, also, and saw that he’s worth the risk.
Harden was compared to Prior
way back in 2003, before both of them started getting hurt. It’s more irony that when Prior proved fragile, so did Harden.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 8, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Another key difference might be...
...that Prior suffered those two in-game injuries – the collision on the basepaths that hurt his shoulder and the comebacker that hurt his forearm – and I don’t believe Harden has ever suffered these kind of injuries. (Perhaps someone more familiar with Harden’s career than I can confirm this.)
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Great move, great timing...
Hendry stole the Brew Crew’s thunder. Gallagher was not a cheap price to pay but as said before we had to give something up tp get a quality front end SP. Murton and Epatt was not a whole lot to give up along with Donaldson considering where they end up as far as depth goes.
Hendry is making the moves and he may not be done yet. He is taking a chance on Harden’s health but if he is past his injuries (please God) then we are in for a hell of a ride. And kudos to Blue Mike, he did call it & took way too much crap for it.
"I don’t believe that things go your way," said Lou Piniella, the Cubs manager.
"I believe you make things go your way."
Great move!
a solid 1-2-3 punch and even a 1-2-3-4 punch with Lilly being good of late. and you are all forgetting Matt Murton.. he was not the exact fit for us. still a good ball player and glad he will get a fresh start with a team that cant hurt us.
I really don't know how to feel about this.
I mean Harden is such a high risk pitcher, goodness every year some aliment. I hate to see Gallagher go. He is better than Nolasco and I hated to see him go, freaking Juan Pierre!!!.
Don’t mind the other players going, Murton deserves a shot to start everyday, who knows about EPat, and Donaldson was expendable with Soto and Castillo.
Stay healthy dude, help this team win it all, and what a great deal this will be.
Hell, two Canadians in the rotation, what are the odds of that.
Go Cubs!!!
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Donaldson expendable?
I wouldn’t call Donaldson expendable. Who knows where Soto and Castillo will be in a few years when he’d be ready. But you have to give up quality to get quality.
Donaldson
was in low-A and struggling. He was a long way away from the majors.
Expendable is the wrong word, but he’s more upside than delivery right now. And with Soto and Castillo, he was likely to be trade bait in the near future even if he began to live up to his promise.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh Timmers on Jul 8, 2008 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Awesome.
I’ve always been a fan of Harden, and was for this deal so long as we didn’t give up too much. Which, I really don’t think we did – Gallagher was the only guy with a future on this team, and I think 1.5 years of Harden is more valuable to us than Gallagher would be.
Nice job Jim!
Too much....
won’t be known for a while….....like 5-7 years…......I hated giving up Wilis…..but he’s kinda panned out like Prior…
The best defense is a good offense
Another irony
One read on these trades (the Brewers’ and the Cubs’) is that Milwaukee got their Zambrano, a guy who has been a horse and worries a little because he finally showed signs of wear this year, but you think still should be solid. We got a Sheets, a guy who is tops when healthy, but rarely healthy.
I like it, I like it a lot
Murton and Patterson…I don’t care too much (would rather Cedeno have been traded over Murton)
Donaldson…this could be a sell high based on his performance last year, when he hit very well last year. Plus we already have an all star young catcher, so unless he was going to move to third (probably not with Vitters) or 1st (possible, but that reduces his value a great deal) then he didn’t really have a spot.
Gallagher…I’ll miss the most. but if Harden stays healthy, this is so worth it. Though it won’t be worth it, probably, if he makes a trip to the DL, and we get eight million fanposts about “Hendry is an IDIOT for trading for this injury-prone/Prior clone/loser” etc. Pray for health.
personally, if I’m Lou/Larry, Harden will be on a ~95 pitch limit for the season so he can last through (knock on wood) the playoffs (knock on wood again) in good health…
I agree except for the Cedeno part.
Bear in mind that the Cubs depth chart at shortstop is awfully shallow. If something happens to Theriot and Cedeno is gone – who plays the position? My guess would be Mike Fontenot, which (sneaky power aside) is not a pretty picture defensively.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Surprised no one has pointed out the missing c in the headline, in "acquire"...
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
Everyone is too giddy at the actual news...
and no one complained about the all-caps, either. Guess it was worthy of shouting!
This is a good trade for the cubbies
I’m looking for Billy Beane to package what the cubs gave us for a hitter, because we desperately need it.
Harden is a bonafide ace with sick stuff. The problem is that he will need to hit. With Harden being as fragile as he is, I would be afraid every time he got to the plate.
Gaudin is a workhorse who is an instant improvement on a pitcher like Marquis, if a shift in rotation is needed. He was Oakland’s sixth starter languishing this season on the BP.
As an A’s fan, I am sad to see Rich go, but I am glad he is going to my other team.
Go Cubbies!!
Green Hulk Fists
Ah yes, you're probably as informed on those two as anyone.
I know he’s starting in AAA, but what kind of role do you see for Murton, say, after the ASB? And Patterson? Gallagher, of course, is headed straight to the rotation.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
I don't know much about Gallagher yet
I know the A’s are good on arms so it is not as much of a slam dunk as you might think.
With the DL problems the A’s have, it would not be a stretch to see Murton in the outfield if he does something of worth in the Sacto Rivercats. Those guys are usually good at developing young talent, despite lacking in heavy lumber.
Right now, the AAA for the A’s is the land of opportunity as Mike Sweeney, Frank Thomas, Bobby Crosby, and Travis Buck are all on the DL. Maybe a change in scenery will do Murton good.
With a little luck and a big stick, Murton might be back in the AL big show soon.
Devil’s advocate regarding the cubs:
Anyone worried this will turn out to be Prior/Wood part deux?
Green Hulk Fists
It would be ridiculous...
...NOT to be worried about the injury risk to Harden. But what’s done is done. No sense panicking about something that hasn’t happened. As long as Harden is healthy, this Cubs team’s starting rotation is nuclear – NUCLEAR.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
I want him to be great for the cubbies
It’s the whole hitting thing that has me worried. In order to keep him healthy, the cubs might have to relegate him to becoming an easy out when up for hitting.
Also, Harden was mortal for the first time in a while on his last start, complaining about a “dead arm” feeling. I think it is from the normal wear and tear of the season, but those words do scare me.
I’m glad it went down this way though, because it’s now or never for the boys in blue.
Green Hulk Fists
Buster Olney's story:
Cubs general manager Jim Hendry checked in from time to time throughout June with Oakland general manager Billy Beane about the availability of Rich Harden, and their conversations traveled down the same path: Yes, Harden was available, but only at the right price, and that price would include right-handed pitcher Sean Gallagher. And Hendry indicated, repeatedly, that Gallagher wasn’t available.
On Sunday evening - the same night when word broke that the Brewers had worked out a deal for CC Sabathia - Hendry indicated to Beane for the first time that he would make Gallagher available in a Harden deal, but it would create a problem: If Gallagher was traded, the Cubs wouldn’t have the kind of depth they needed to deal with an injury.
“Let me call you back,” Beane said.
Beane had an idea. He could fill Hendry’s need for depth by adding veteran swingman Chad Gaudin in the trade. He phoned Hendry back on Monday night with the suggestion. “That could work,” Hendry said, and the two general managers began piecing together other parts of the trade. Beane called Hendry with a detail of the trade very late on Monday night, California time, figuring the call would switch over to voice mail on Hendry’s cell phone because it was so late.
But Hendry answered the phone, wide awake. “Jim, what are doing awake?” Beane asked.”I’m just laying here on my couch,” Hendry said.
Some 15 hours later, the trade was finished. Oakland got Gallagher, a pitching prospect with a more stable medical history than Harden, and the Cubs got a high-risk, high-reward talent in Harden.
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08
Steal of the Century
I honestly think this a steal in comparison to deals for other big time pitchers. Yeah tough to see Gallagher go, but I just don’t think he will ever be an elite pitcher. Harden is an elite pitcher. Of course I think this deal got done because of the injury factor.
With that being said Buster Olney kinda irritated me a bit hammering the injury point. What it comes down to is taking a risk. And really not that big of a one if you ask me with what we gave up. Yeah we could have gotten Burnett, but this is a slamdunk. I don’t really listen to Olney anyway. I don’t think he has the pull or inside information such as a Tim Kurkjian or Steve Phillips, but that’s for another day.
Today is a day for rejoicing. Thank you Mr. Jim Hendry. Gotta give it to him. The man works his ass off. Now let’s go reward him on the field.
by Les Lancaster's Mullet on Jul 9, 2008 4:34 AM CDT reply actions
It's good both ways
Beane ain’t no fool. He’s retooling for the A’s move to Fremont.
Although it pains me to see him go, as a small market genius, I know he makes the right moves.
Harden and Gaudin puts the Cubs in the rare air of the it club. Also, if there’s anything that the A’s are good at, it’s developing young talent—particularly pitchers.
Don’t be surprised if you see this trade going good both ways.
Green Hulk Fists
"Going good both ways."
Yep. The Cubs only need Harden to make a half dozen healthy starts for the trade to go well. And I think Gallagher is going to like his new home park. Rosenthal quoted a rival GM saying he thought Gallagher would be a part of more wins for Oakland in the next year and a half than Harden will be for the Cubs. That may be true, but the Cubs need someone to win the big games in the playoffs, not someone to win a lot of games.
by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 7:02 AM CDT up reply actions
i'd bet that too
that Gallagher wins more games for the A’s than Harden wins for the Cubs, we just have to hope Harden’s wins come at an impt time. The problem is in the past once Harden’s gotten the shoulder injury issues he hasn’t been able to really recover in that same season.
If Harden’s 12 starts come between now and Oct and we have nothing in Oct, the deal won’t look too good
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I always imagined Matt Murton playing for the Oakland Athletics someday
''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella
Yep, given his style of hitting and patience at the plate...
...it’s an excellent fit.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
I'm shocked
that there isn’t at least “SOME” caution on the site after what we’ve gone through hanging on a thread with Prior and Wood rehab updates.
Look, did we give up anything significant to our chances of winning this year or in the next 2-3 years when our window is open, no not really (with the exception of Gallagher, who as many have said can be replaced), but what we did give up is pieces to use in other trades. Sure Patterson and Murton don’t have quite the trade value to other orgs as they might have to Beane, but we’ve limited our depth significantly to go out and get other pieces. So I don’t quite agree with the idea that we gave up “nothing”
Then there’s this whole thing about Harden staying healthy, which he hasn’t done since 2004! We’re talking about a guy who has topped 130 innings in a season ONE TIME in 5 major league seasons (this being his 6th). His last two starts his velocity and command both dropped which could be viewed as a legitimate warning sign.
On top of that you have the whole thing of dealing with one of the best GMs in baseball on the other side, who has sold off the majority of their pitchers at exactly the right time. Look what Mark Mulder has done for the Cardinals? Hudson’s been good for the Braves but hasn’t been as good as he was in Oakland and Zito… well he’s been terrible too.
Look, i’m not saying it wasn’t a gamble worth taking. But I’m SHOCKED people aren’t referring to it as more of a gamble.
128
46
26
77
those are his innings totals the last 4 years.
Yes we got a guy with ACE stuff, but he’s not an ace when he can’t physically stay on the mound for more than 130 innings in a season and we gave up a decent amount of the trade chips we had to get him. There IS risk associated with this deal and its in the right shoulder of Rich Harden along with the opportunity cost of giving up those trade chips. On top of that I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Gallagher one more games over the next two years for the A’s than Harden did for the Cubs.
I know I should be excited but I’ve had my heart broken way too many times of late with Cubs pitchers and their health, that I’m more guarded than optimistic on this one.
In the end this was a gamble and one Hendry and the organization felt was worth taking. Only time will tell if its the right gamble. I understand the excitement and the passion for the organization willing to make a move like this, but I’m shocked there isn’t more guarded optimism on the board
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 7:37 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Yes. it's a gamble
but we gave up nothing. The point is we can make the playoffs without the guys we gave up even if both of the pitchers we got don’t pitch a single inning. This gives us the best chance at a WS and that’s all we want.
Best part about this trade is that we didn’t have to give up Veal, Vitters, Colvin, Ceda, or the Shark.
by CubFaninStLouis on Jul 9, 2008 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions
gave up "nothing"
is far too dismissive
we gave up one player that could make contributions to this team in Sean Gallagher. If you take “nothing” to mean nothing that can impact THIS YEAR and THIS YEAR ONLY then maybe you’re correct, but I’d argue Gallagher could impact this year. Regardless what we have given up is quite a bit of depth and some trade pieces that could have been very useful including the best one that we had, outside of Vitters, in Sean Gallagher
we didn’t give up “nothing”, that’s an asinine comment
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Rec'd but with some disagreements
In general, I think your perspective here is sound. Gallagher is going to look like a stud sometime during his career pitching in the Coliseum, similar to how Blanton got his one great looking year. After that year, the response to this trade will be different; just wait and see.
That said, what really amazed me about this trade is how we still have good trade chips to spend if we are inclined. Pie-Veal-Cedeno all have value. On the other hand, I have some concerns about depth in CF, with Edmonds and Reed both showing why they are injury risks. With Murton now gone, I hope Hendry looks at whether or not the Dodgers really are inclined to trade Matt Kemp for a SS.
One more point; Harden has already banked 100 really good innings; I don’t know that he has to log that many more to be a Type A FA at the end of next year, which helps counterbalance the trade cost.
by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions
he's logged 77
and he’d need to be somewhat healthy next year to be able to log Type A, if he’s somewhat healthy don’t you think we’d make a run at locking him up? Its kind of a catch-22 there with regards to Harden.
I think if you’re amazed we were able to keep all these chips, then you were expecting Hendry to make a foolish deal. I don’t think this is a “steal” as so many others are referring to it. We gave up pretty good value here comparable to what we received, which is a guy who hasn’t been healthy in 4 years, but when healthy is among the most dominant in the game.
If we were going to give up any more than this we would’ve been insane to take that kind of gamble. This IS still a risk, but one that’s probably appropriate given the timing (taking a chance now) and the upside.
I just see a lot of people dismissing the risk associated with this deal in saying we gave up nothing and we got a steal, etc…. and i just don’t believe it. We got a steal IF Harden can stay healthy, and the track record shows he likely can’t.
I also think much more highly of Gallagher than just a Joe Blanton type, to me he’s got the chance to be better than Blanton (a dependable innings eater type) because he strikes out more guys. In that park, which limits the impacts of his FB tendencies and actually enhances them, he’s going to look great.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Risk and Amazement
I totally agree about the risk. You almost certainly don’t remember, but preseason I argued the Cubs should keep Prior because the risk of losing 4 million dollars was nothing, even if it was just a 1 in a 100 chance that he could be a shut-down pitcher in October. Harden is precisely the kind of risk I want to see the Cubs taking. That’s why I’d say it’s not a steal IF he stays healthy. It’s not a steal and it’s not a bad deal suddenly if he gets hurt. We made a good deal because it’s a good risk. What happens with Harden’s health is irrelevant because no one can see the future.
As for my surprise at the price, just go look at what they were saying at Athletics Nation two days ago; what others were saying here yesterday morning. Most people expected Harden to require a Haren or Bedard type package. We gave up our best trade chip in Gallagher, yes. We also got Gaudin in this deal, more than just a throw-in.
by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
don't you think there could be a reason for that though?
and maybe it correlates to Harden’s last two starts in which his velocity and command both fell off abruptly?
I’m just saying, i don’t think the deal will look all roses if Harden makes less than 13 starts as a Cub. I choose 13 because that’s the exact number he made in the previous 2 seasons to this one
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course it is possible that Beane pawned off an about-to-be broken starter to an NL team.
All you have to do is look at Hudson, Mulder, and Zito.
But in my mind, the deal is fine even if Harden makes 0 regular season starts, just so long as he is in form for the post-season.
by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I read somewhere
that the Cubs got their Mark Prior in Rich Harden.
1. He could be totally dominating
or
2. His arm could fall off.
But it’s gotta be worth the risk. I hate giving up Gallagher, too, but getting Gaudin at least gives us a back up plan for this season if Harden should go down. Plus, both are pretty young. I just hope that Marshall continues to pitch well. And they have to figure out what to do with Marquis.
Nobody cares about your fantasy league team
by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions
don't disagree
that given our situation this was “probably” worth the risk
that’s why i have “guarded” optimism about the move.
That being said, i DO disagree with the idea “we gave up nothing” or “this was a steal”, etc. This guy’s track record suggests we won’t be able to rely on him in October. Rich Harden isn’t CC Sabathia, there’s a HUGE difference in reliability
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Dayn Perry wrote over at Foxsports that we're in trouble now on SP depth.
He’s just not looking at our roster. We can plug in Marshall, Lieber, or Gaudin, all of which are very good 6th starter options.
I agree about figuring out what to do about Marquis, but for the same reason, if Marquis goes, we’ll need to get back another SP for depth.
by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree that it's going a little too far...
...to say the Cubs gave up “nothing.” Sean Gallagher is probably on his way to being a middle of the rotation starter—that’s certainly something. And though he isn’t the right fit here, Murton has major-league-proven skills. EPatt has potential as well.
This trade was definitely a gamble – a big one. But until Harden breaks down (and I pray he doesn’t), I’m going to stay on the sunny side of the street.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
that's the right outlook
if i find my heart, which was ripped out by Mark Prior 5 times, I’ll get back on board too!
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Well...
I’m going to the game tomorrow, if I can get tickets in Wrigleyville.
Jim Edmonds has seriously become my favorite player. WHAT'S HAPPENING????
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
