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A Harden Day's Night: Cubs 7, Reds 3

The Cubs beat the Reds 7-3 last night, but I know all any Cubs fan wants to discuss this morning is the Cubs' acquisition of Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin from the A's, which was announced a couple of hours before game time.

So. What do I think? I haven't changed my mind. There's no doubt that Rich Harden has a great arm and can be one of the most dominant pitchers in the game -- when he's healthy, which he hasn't been since 2004, the only year he's spent an entire year in a major league rotation without spending some time on the DL. If he can avoid getting hurt, the Cubs have countered Milwaukee's acquisition of CC Sabathia -- though Jim Hendry says it wasn't a counter-move, that he's been after Harden for several weeks, and I believe him -- and in addition, strengthened their bullpen with Gaudin, who has a good arm and familiarity with Lou Piniella (he pitched for Piniella in Tampa). I want to stop here briefly to point out the hypocrisy of Sun-Times columnist Jay Mariotti, who yesterday practically begged Hendry to make this deal rightfreakingnow, and then today, after Hendry actually did so, raised the injury caution flag.

Hey, Jay! Got whiplash from turning this around so quickly?

At the ballpark, news of the deal spread by buzz -- overheard cellphone calls, then checks ourselves to confirm the rumors. BCB reader BartlettBob, sitting with us, let me use his iPhone to take a look at BCB, where one particular person was ecstatic, with many of the rest of you expressing happiness, but also caution due to the injury risk. And then the Cubs did something that I don't think I've ever seen before in a situation like this -- they posted news of the deal on the scoreboard and made a PA announcement, which was met with a loud ovation. (And my apologies to BCB reader aisle 209 -- with all the commotion regarding the trade, I never did get a chance to stop by your seat last night.)

These aren't the old Cubs, indeed.

Of the players sent to Oakland, in my mind the only one who might make enough of an impact to make the Cubs lament losing him is Sean Gallagher, who will move right into the A's rotation, and who has a chance to be a good starting pitcher for a long time. It should be mentioned that Harden is only four years older than Gallagher and is under the Cubs' control through the end of 2009. If healthy, this makes a deal where the Cubs have a slightly older and far better starter in exchange for a young guy who might get better -- but that's far from certain. Farewell to Matt Murton, vilified by some, loved by others, who never had much of a chance to play with the Cubs. He'll get it in Oakland, and good luck to him. I was never fond of Eric Patterson, who could play several positions, none of them well, and seemed to have all the baseball smarts of his brother. As for Josh Donaldson, many here loved the choice when he was picked a year ago, but he was struggling in the Midwest League and with the emergence of Geovany Soto, he is far from major-league ready.

Good job, Jim Hendry. And stay healthy, Rich Harden. (And don't forget the added benefit of getting someone who can speak Canadian with Ryan Dempster.)

This raises the question: which pitcher goes? The Cubs shipped a hitter and a pitcher (Gallagher and Murton) off the roster and added two pitchers. They won't carry 13 pitchers -- so who's gone? It may be, at long last, time to DFA Jason Marquis.

Now, before the salivating masses yell "DFA!!!1!!1!", let me remind you what "DFA" actually means. "Designated for assignment" means the club has ten days to do something with the player, and maybe the Cubs can take those ten days and make a trade involving Marquis, even if they have to eat a fair portion of Marquis' deal for 2009. It'd be worth it, because Harden is under contract for a reasonable price for next year. We'll find out something later today after it's announced whether Harden will start Friday or Saturday -- he was scheduled to start for the A's on Friday vs. the Angels (a start Gallagher will make now), and Friday was to be Marquis' turn. We await developments.

Note on this notes column by Toni Ginnetti in the Sun-Times, which contains this erroneous information:

Tuesday's trade wasn't the first between Hendry and A's general manager Billy Beane, and the history between the GMs aided completion of the six-player deal.

"We hashed out a lot of names over the last few weeks," Hendry said. "[Beane] is blunt, honest, he tries to trade talent for talent. We got what we wanted, and I'll be rooting like heck for those guys [the Cubs traded]."

In one of Hendry's first deals as Cubs GM, he got Mark Bellhorn from Oakland for Adam Morrissey. Last year, Hendry got Jason Kendall for Rob Bowen.

Mark Bellhorn was acquired on November 27, 2001 -- and that deal was made by Andy MacPhail, who was GM until July 5, 2002. Hendry did make a deal with Beane before last year -- he engineered the deal in which Michael Barrett was traded from Montreal to Oakland and then to the Cubs in exchange for Damian Miller at the end of the 2003 season. You're welcome, Toni, for the correction.

This trade reminds me of the Rick Sutcliffe deal in 1984 -- the Cubs gave up someone, Joe Carter, who was destined for stardom and who became a World Series hero. Sutcliffe led the Cubs to their first postseason play in 39 years and won the Cy Young Award; the 96 wins the '84 Cubs had is the most in the last 63 years. They didn't make the World Series, of course, but that wasn't Sutcliffe's fault. This deal has the chance to take us farther, to the Promised Land. Let it be so.

Oh, yes, there was a game last night, too. Well, Ryan Dempster became the Cubs' first 10-game winner, and except for the 4th inning where he got wild and walked four, allowing his only run, he threw a solid game. The Cubs hitters waited out Aaron Harang to the tune of seven bases on balls, and timely HR from Mike Fontenot (a 400-foot blast with no wind) and Geovany Soto put the game away early. There were also fine defensive plays from Jim Edmonds and Aramis Ramirez. The only sour note was a shaky 9th inning from Bob Howry, which forced Lou to get Michael Wuertz throwing with two out. Even the booing of Dusty Baker when he came out to make a pitching change was muted. We've moved on. The Rich Harden Era begins later this week -- Harden, who wore uniform #40 with the A's (the same number as Sutcliffe, for you numerologists), will undoubtedly get it gifted to him by its current wearer, pitching coach Larry Rothschild (who has worn three different numbers as a Cub coach, #40, #41, and #47).

So the Cubs match the Brewers' raise. Wouldn't it be fun to see Harden and Sabathia match up in Milwaukee later this month? Could happen. What a great ride this season has been, and it's barely into the second half. Fasten your seat belts, the best is yet to come.

Nice grab!
Jim Edmonds makes a diving catch of Jerry Hairston's fly ball

Nice hit!
Mike Fontenot sliding into 2nd after his 6th inning double

I got it!
Aramis Ramirez catching Brandon Phillips' popup in the 8th inning, with Ryan Theriot right there to help, and Mike Fontenot wondering, "What's going on over there?"

Cubs win!
Jay Bruce strikes out to end the game

Click on photos to open a larger version in a new browser window. All photos by David Sameshima

Comment 607 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I'm really excited about Gaudin as well.

I’ve been reading up about him since last night, and I definitely wouldn’t mind seeing him start. Could Marquis end up in the bullpen, if he’s not traded, you think?

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 8:20 AM CDT reply actions  

Beyond that...

... the Cubs won’t carry 13 pitchers. One of them will have to go.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Besides Wertz...

...I don’t really see any other possibilities besides Marquis.

BTW, Al, your roster page needs an update.

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I imagine the roster page will be updated by later today.

If it isn’t, send a note to bugreport (at) sbnation (dot) com.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not critical but this juncture needs to be managed well

The obvious move and one I think will happen is Marquis is traded, the likely targets are SD and SF (who by the consequence of the under .500 record of the NL West is in the race) who could use a starter. Gaudin could be traded along with Marquis. They could also make a trade to LAD as well.

Possible’s: SD Trade Marquis, Gaudin and Cedeno for Maddux or Wolf (whom I think is their real target) and Green. Wolf is relatively inexpensive and a lefty veteran for the 5th rotation spot, Greene is then traded to SF for Vizquel (who is expensive) but would fill in a fine bench role as a backup SS, switch hitter off the bench and good glove.

SF: Trade Marquis straight up for Vizquel (see above) simple money deal. Cubs in turn trade Cedeno to LAD for Lowe as their 5th starter

LAD Marquis and Cedeno for Lowe and a prospect.

I vote for #1 and in all honesty Wolf but would love to have Maddux for 10-11 starts.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Jul 9, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

IMHO

I think none of those happen.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good Lord

If you don’t like a post, flag it, or explain why you don’t like it. There’s a reason there’s an actions command next to comments—enough of this -1, +1 business

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 9, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hahaha

Nice

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO

Well played!

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

UM

You can only “Flag” something as spam, a troll, or inappropriate, so that wouldn’t work as well the the Recommend action. You have a point thought. The +/-1’s are getting a bit outta hand.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's what I thought -1 meant.

Or he could do the latter, and actually explain why he doesn’t like it. It’s a crazy idea of explaining your thoughts in coherent sentences, I know.

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the +1 or -1

is the same as “I agree with what you said” without writing it all out. My interpretation of a flag is to notify Al if someone was using bad language or insulting people on here. I don’t see anything wrong with the +1, -1 business.

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson

by tucsoncubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

word

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you don't

like them ignore them. All he’s saying is he disagrees.

by sue369 on Jul 9, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Requesting a recommendation?

For that I just flagged you.

:D

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

eh.

the Z key is just a click away.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

How many does it take?

Don’t see it green yet…

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tis greener than recycled paper.

Looks a wee Irish, actually.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I saw it green

with four recs.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't see why this is such a big deal

No one here is obligated to provide anyone else with reading material.

Subtlety can speak volumes, too, and I don’t see anything wrong with a quick nod (or headshake) to an opinion with a subtle +1/-1.

I agree with your comment on the recommend, but not on the +1/1 - sorry.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

Someone had to.

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 9, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go green, Badger.

Go green.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the obvious move

is to do nothing. We don’t need Vizquel, and the whole point of getting Gaudin was to be a backup when Harden’s arm falls off.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, lord, not the Vizquel thing again.

I mean, we might as well bring Don Kessinger out of retirement. Vizquel is DONE DONE DONE.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Touche.

No, MORE done than Edmonds. Well done. Roasted to a crisp.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

FWIW

I totally agree on Vizquel.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry but this is about the dumbest thing I've seen in weeks

If the Cubs actually got Khalil Greene you want to trade him for Omar Vizquel?

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Plus

Why would LA trade Lowe for Cedano? They need a SS but they also need starting pitchers (they were on the fringe of the CC trade). They’re in the race since Arizona has crashed back to earth, why would they trade Lowe? Doesn’t add up.

And oh yeah, trading for Khalil Greene for Omar Vizquel would be monumentally stupid.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jul 9, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kemp

can play center. I’d take him over Johnson/Edmonds.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Jul 9, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The almost 200K pace is a bit of a concern

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 9, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm SOOOO glad you're not the Cubs GM.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

No way

Baseball is not a video game. Trades like your number one simply do not happen. Trades like number two are simply fantasy. Cedeno is not going to be traded straight up for Derek Lowe, ever….

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this -Oysterband

by Ross on Jul 9, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Again. Gaudin is not going to be moved. He was the whole key to the trade.

Stop including him in your ridiculous trade scenarios.

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 9, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah.

He’s been okay lately.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fractured Testicle

Sorry couldn’t help myself

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Jul 9, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ouch!

Who’s gonna take one for the team?

by Itchy on Jul 9, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't Ryan Dempster..

..a free agent after this season? I could see the Cubs holding on to Marquis just in case Dempster jumps ship after ‘08…I’m not saying I think he will, but you never know - under the worst-case scenario, we’d be left with Z, Harden, Lilly, and Marshall - WHAT would the Cubs do if an injury happened, ie.: Harden?

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, Dempster is eligible for Free Agency after the 2008 season

as are the following Cubs:

Henry Blanco
Scott Eyre
Bob Howry
Jon Lieber
Daryle Ward
Kerry Wood

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jul 9, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

So would it be smart...

..for the Cubs to rush on dumping Marquis? I know he’s no ace, or even a #2 or 3, but he IS a big league pitcher that is signed for next season and he could come in handy in case of injury etc.

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Jul 10, 2008 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you

Jim Hendry. Super deal for the Cubs. What I really love is that JH got the deal done so soon before the deadline. What a coup! Also, yet another big homer from Mike Fontenot, or “Little Babe,” as Ronny called him last night.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Jul 9, 2008 8:21 AM CDT reply actions  

Heh...

Lou called him “Little Fontenot” when he was announcing the lineup w/ Ronnie yesterday, too >8)

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Last night

I was talking to my brother this morning who was there last night and said there was a palpable excitement in the air as word got around about the trade. I called him on his cell to let him know something was going on.

He said word spread like wildfire but the official announcement was a nice touch.

Not to bring up bad memories but the McGriff deal was put on the centerfield message board as well.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:25 AM CDT reply actions  

McGriff

Exactly what last night reminded me of.

by gocubsgo22 on Jul 9, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fortunately, this time we are getting an actual good player...

... instead of someone who didn’t even want to be here.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

McGriff

I remember all the excitement over him. I was at his first game as a Cub. Turned out to be one of the most disappointing acquisitions they ever made. He took the life out of that team.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

2-0

McGriff beat the cards with two solo shots in the only game I saw him play live, so I have a decent memory of him.

by Wad on Jul 9, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was a bust

As far as I could tell it was a move to try and get some protection for Sammy because we didn’t seem to get that THAT was what we really lost when we moved Gracie (a move I’m still mad about by the way—I was really glad he got his ring).

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Melvin to Hendry then Hendry to Melvin

Melvin to Hendry “Check”
Hendry to Melvin “Checkmate”

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:26 AM CDT reply actions  

MIKE AND MIKE

My 08 Cubs record 7-0
Updated June 01

by Rudey on Jul 9, 2008 8:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Huh?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I'll help him out, Hendry is on Mike and Mike right now.

So far nothing that hasn’t been said over the past 24 hours.

Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs

by nji232 on Jul 9, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh.

Thanks.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

The other question -

Who comes up if the Cubs dump a pitcher?

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 8:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Probably Hoffpauir...

... for a short time until Soriano comes back.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or do they just ride out 13 pitchers

until Soriano comes back, hoping to trade whomever is the odd man out. I think Wuertz could get traded here, too.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I should clarify.

I mean we all want Marquis gone, but it could be Wuertz who is gone, instead.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sutcliffe/Harden

Al I had similar thoughts about Sutcliffe and Harden. They even will wear the same number.

But does that mean like the outfielder that went in the Sutcliffe deal. Murton will one day in the future be the worst announcer in Cubs history like Carter?

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:28 AM CDT reply actions  

+1

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Jul 9, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

*LAUGH*

Joe Carter: So (former Bear) Jim (McMahon)...do you stay in touch with Pete Rozelle?

McMahon: That would be hard to do, considering he’s been dead for several years.

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL!

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO

He really asked him that?

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's the first listing...

...that I came across:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/08/21/SP151181.DTL&type=printable

I’ve heard the stations around town play the clip every so often, but I wasn’t able to dig up an audio link to post here…

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jim Hendry pulled off a tremendous deal

The Cubs are built to win now, the rotation had screaming need for a frontline starting pitcher, the bullpen is not as deep as it should be, St. Louis and Milwaukee are breathing down our necks…..so what does Jim Hendry do? He pulls off an outstanding deal for an ace caliber starting pitcher and a valuable swingman. And he does it in a manner that doesn’t send the payroll spiraling upwards a zillion miles an hour.

Sean Gallagher IS a good young pitcher. He has a nice upside. I’ve always thought of him as a potential better version of Steve Trachsel. Which is a good thing.

Don’t look for Jason Marquis to be DFA’d. I see no way the Cubs are going to swallow nearly $12 million in salary. More than likely the fading Michael Wuertz is send packing.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 8:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Whatever

It’s plain to see that this was only a salary dump move by the A’s. They get rid of a 7million dollar option for next year and gain a pitcher that they control for 2.5 years before he can even go to arbitration.
Hendry is a vulture who can only make trades with teams having fire sales. Where’s the level playing field?

Hendry deserves no credit here at all for this trade.

Right Mike?

by ScottT on Jul 9, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

$7 mil...

...isn’t to shabby for a year of your best starter’s time these days.

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Vulture?

Salary Dump my rump. Seven big bills is nothing for a starter with the talent of Harden.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yahoo Sports is saying Edmonds is day to day

with a jammed finger. Anyone have any word on this?

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions  

No, but...

... it’s possible he did this on that diving catch in the first inning last night. It would explain the bad at-bats he had the rest of the night.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

He jammed his thumb on Saturday in the Slid into home

...maybe that is the “finger” they are referring to

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Jul 9, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oops

I thought it was Sunday.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's been banged up for two weeks

Time to give him a blow and play Reed Johnson for a few days with Mark DeRosa hanging out in left field until Soriano is back and/or Edmonds is sufficiently healed from his nicks and scrapes.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

Good idea. Edmonds and Fukudome and DeRosa have been doing a great job holding down the fort without Soriano and also without Johnson for a couple of weeks.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Edmonds

I thought I read Edmonds was having his finger xrayed yesterday and he hurt it Sunday.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't believe

Edmonds played on Sunday, I believe it was Reed out in center.

"Go Cubs Go"

by mkcubs21 on Jul 9, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only thing I don't get

What I don’t get is some writers and talk radio people saying the Cubs didn’t have an ace.

Excuse me but I think Zambrano is an ace.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Good Point

I see Leiber as having less value to the Cubs right now than Marquis or Wuertz

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Jul 9, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll guess Wuertz is gone

Jon Lieber has proved valuable, although not quite as valuable as hoped. I think Lou likes him a great deal, to include his selflessness and willingness to pitch in multiple roles. Plus he is making $3.5 million. No way Marquis is gone given the size of his contract thru 2009. Wuertz meanwhile has clearly faded on the depth chart. Lou doesn’t have a lot of faith in him at this point.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wuertz does have some trade value....

... no matter what you think of his performance, which has been mediocre. Maybe they can deal him somewhere for a prospect.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Or maybe they can net a bench player for him.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Possibly.

See, you and I CAN agree sometimes!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mike Wuertz

Is clutch before the 7th inning. Especially when the pitching change is quiet enough that half the ball park does not notice he is in for a few hitters.

by gocubsgo22 on Jul 9, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe Wuertz has an option left.

That would allow them to send him to AAA.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Jul 9, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe Wuertz can refuse an assignment to the minors

since he has at least three years of MLB service time.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jul 9, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

I may have misspoke in the above post

Wuertz can refuse an Outright Assignment to the minors since he has at least 3 years of MLB service.

Players with at least 5 years of MLB service can refuse an Optional Assignment to the minors. Wuertz has 3+ YOS (less than 5).

Assuming “outright” and “optional” mean what I think they mean, Wuertz will not be given an Outright Assignment but can be given an Optional Assignment. He has one option year left.

I guess GM’s have to know the ins and outs of the CBA, huh?

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jul 9, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

furthermore,

Wuertz would have to clear Optional Assignment Waivers before being sent down.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jul 9, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I think Wuertz goes too. He has more trade value since he is still relatively young and can pitch a lot better than he has been pitching for us. Plus, Lieber is more versatile and Lou likes him more.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 9, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

which is why

of course, Lou brought him in when Howry struggled.

To the moon, Alice!

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

How?

Marquis is only a starter and Wuertz is only a reliever. Lieber can do both.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's a nice problem to have isn't it?

Trying to decide who to send down, when everyone is contributing…

by digitalbenjamin on Jul 9, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I also notice...

...that they’re quick to compare Milwaukee’s rotation to ours as “Sheets/Sabathia vs. Zambrano/Harden”. No mention of the pitcher who’s actually leading our staff in victories, or the solid lefty.

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

1-2

1-2 we match them it’s 3-4 where we are better in my opinion and 5 probably too.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is there a chance...

...that Leiber is the one to go? I would certainly rather see Marquis, but Jon is just getting so little work this year.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 8:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Not Lieber

Lieber has shown he can pitch in the pen and the rotation and I think Jim and Lou want to have him for injury insurance.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

But now that we have Gaudin....

he’s basically the same type of pitcher…..long relief, spot starter. And the reason Hendry included him in the deal was as insurance against a Harden injury.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lieber

hasn’t been as valuable as we hoped because Lou hasn’t used him as we all thought he would.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Jul 9, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I was...

...figuring that Gaudin would essentially fill the role meant for Gallagher as he returned to the bullpen. Similar to Lieber’s role, but a separate roster spot.

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Although

Although the Cubs may be able to get something for Lieber in a trade. Nothing much but something.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gaudin

I’d consider sending Gaudin to AAA and putting him in the rotation to keep him fresh in case a Cub starter (perhaps Harden) goes down with an injury.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Gaudin goes straight to the pen

and I think it’s a good move.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Yesterday some were saying on various outlets that he could in fact be “Marmol Insurance” becuase of his style- nasty slider and a good sinker

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 9, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sight seen last night at Wrigley...

..The guy next to us had made his own Rich Harden jersey already. Had the number 40 and everything.

I love it!

by JB 23 on Jul 9, 2008 8:33 AM CDT reply actions  

wow

must be a seamstress

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Jul 9, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

It was a guy, so he’d be a seamster. Wonder if he’s in the Seamster’s Union.

by John Q Freejazz on Jul 9, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

What did he look like ?

I’ll bet it was our own MDBNIU aka Blue Mike

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 9, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Adam Harben

Anybody know who this dude is? He is on our 40 man Roster and I can’t find him on any Minor League Roster. Supposedly he was picked up in the Phil Nevin trade to the twins but I don’t recall seeing him on the 40 man before.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Jul 9, 2008 8:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Harben was acquired from the Twins in the Phil Nevin deal...

... as you said. He was put on the 40-man last offseason. He could easily just be released.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

Worthless.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

I think a number got left off. And that number is 5.21. Still ugh.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's certainly the guy

you’d want to knock off the 40-man. He really doesn’t have any business being there anyway.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

We traded three guys of the 40-man...

...and only got two back. So I’m not worried about it right now.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

According to Phil Rogers' scale, we are now -1.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Jul 9, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

-2 if you count Donaldson.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Er, -1, um….forget it.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't Chad Fox

on the 40 man?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

One could easily move him to the 60-day DL at this point, though, if we needed the roster spot. Which we really don’t.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

sure

I’m just saying, if you’re going to move someone, he’s the guy to move; does he even put a uniform on anymore?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Marquis

Marquis is nothing to write home about but in his last 10 starts in 8 of them he has at least gone into the 6th and given up 4 or less runs. Nothing great but he is the 5th starter.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions  

The rotation shouldn't be that difficult...

Z
Harden
Dempster
Lilly
Marquis

Marshall can be the emergency starter (when Harden misses time) and Lieber can continue to be the long man.

Marquis has always been a 5th starter, and now he can slide right into that role. No big deal.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 9, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions  

I'd rather have Marshall

as a 5th starter.

LIeber can be an emergency starter. Marquis can go play for the Yankees, who will take anyone who can throw

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Yankees might actually take Marquis.

Worth investigating, anyway.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yankees

At this point Al the Yankees would take me or you if we could throw a baseball.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Only if Brian Cashman

is on vacation and Hank Steinbrenner makes the trade.

Cashman is too smart for the Yankees to get swindled these days.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not thinking the Cubs are looking for a swindle at this point with Marquis.

Just someone they could split the contract with and get a face-saving prospect.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Too Smart?

IMO Cashman may be the worst GM in baseball. Look at all the resources he has and show me what exactly he’s done with it. He’s signed old players who were already past their prime. Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Bobby Abreu,etc… With the money they spend they should be getting players in their prime. Sure he’s held on to Hughes and Kennedy, but what have they done. I honestly can’t figure out why Cashman still has a job. He’s lucky this year that Mussina has scraped it together and Pettitte’s arm is still dangling by it’s thread.

"There's nothing wrong with this team that more hitting, more pitching, more fielding, and more hitting couldn't help." Bill Buckner

by Rotodaddy on Jul 9, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cashman's hands have been tied by Big Stein for years

...you can be certain Stein wanted Brown, Randy et al…

Cashman is highly regarded by his peers for not only dealing with a lunatic as an owner but for his baseball as well

by JB 23 on Jul 9, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dead on Al--exactly what I was thinking

Yankees are playing better and could use a starter—Marquis is from NYC….think they’d give us Jeter for him?

:c-)

"Red Sox Nation: In your opinion, who’s the best player not in the HOF?
Bill James: Ron Santo" October 2004.

by cubfever7 on Jul 9, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jeter?

He of the .735 OPS?

Ick!

Theriot’s is .752… I doubt his defense is as good as Jeter’s, but still… I think I’d stick with Scrap-iot :)

by Slim1256 on Jul 9, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

and do what with him?

have him sing the stretch?

I’d prefer someone who will actually be useful in the long run…

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only if

they take ALL his salary. I think he’s due to make upwards of $9m next year.

I think you might be right simply because Lou has said that he wants two lefties in the rotation, which would make the rotation:
Z
Lilly
Harden
Marshall
Dempster

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 9, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree. Marshall has been better than Marquis.....

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm impressed by the deal on so many levels.

The fact that JH got 2 pitchers out of this is fantastic. I was almost as excited when the announced they got Gaudin. I think he will be important down the stretch and helps the bullpen a ton. The fact that Harden is under contract for next year at pretty much a bargain price of 7 mill is good too.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions  

Impressive it is!!!! Getting Gaudin

is almost as if he was the main piece. I have seen him a couple times, he is a good pitcher in his own right. Great move for the Cubs….

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

for me

getting him is what makes this trade not a disaster.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, we traded Sean for two pitchers....

Murton and Patterson had no future here and Donaldson is blocked by Soto. Great deal for the Cubs AND a bonus if Harden stays healthy…...I like it…

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know

a lot of people see it that way. However, I worry that we traded Sean for a pitcher and a Prior.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

After CC, this was the BEST deal

injury history aside, compare the contracts of Burnett and Harden. No comparison. Yes, it is a risk; however the fact is that we got the best available pitcher. And another good pitcher.

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I will respectfully

disagree, and hope that I am wrong, the way a lot of us were wrong on Edmonds.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was the most wrong about Edmonds.....

God I hated that deal when it happened. I am SO glad I was wrong….And I hope I used all my “wrong” on Edmonds and this turns out to be a steal….....

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly...

Sean is grading out to be a #3 guy and we got a #1 or 2 guy for him. Also for another year.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've very disappointed...

That Dusty Baker wasn’t booed. Far as I’m concerned, he should be booed for the rest of his life for what he allowed the players to do to Steve Stone.

As for the trade, I’m thrilled. Al, when it comes to Mariotti, I think you have to consider the possibility that he had no idea Harden had such a DL history until he read the stories about the trade. I think he just remembered, “Hey, Rich Harden is good. Let’s get him!,” wrote a column about it and then found out.

I mean he IS a TV star now. He doesn’t have time for details.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 8:39 AM CDT reply actions  

Let the Steve Stone stuff go.

And the Baker stuff too. We’re past that. He’s just the manager of another team now.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Dusty was booed. I was at the game, too. It’s time to get past this. He made excuses, but took them farther in 2003 than anyone else could have.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Im so sick

Im so sick of everyone taking Stone’s side on this especially as the media has refused to let the players involved tell their side of the story.

Not saying what they did was right it was wrong but chances are pretty good Stone embellished the story quite a bit.

And if you honestly believe there have never been problems between the players and Stone before that happened.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd love to hear Alou's side of the story

He might change it 15 times, like he did with the Bartman situation, but it’s worth a listen.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also

Steve Stone’s stony silence when Kerry Wood was named to the All Star team speaks volumes about him.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well said

I think it’s clear that Kerry had some words with Stone in the past about Stone’s “analysis” which essentially consisted of saying Kerry’s arm will fall off one day.

Stone is a good commentator, but is a pompous ass.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 9, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

You got that right!

He’ll rub someone one the Southside wrong and then he’ll be workin for the D’backs with the rest of the Chicago rejects!

by Itchy on Jul 9, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

+20

"Red Sox Nation: In your opinion, who’s the best player not in the HOF?
Bill James: Ron Santo" October 2004.

by cubfever7 on Jul 9, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't know what to comment on first

So I’ll start with the game. I can’t figure out how Dempster avoids giving up more runs. At times, it seems like if he didn’t walk anyone, he would be throwing perfect games. Last night, except for that one inning, he was the exceptional Dempster again.

Like everyone else here, I am ecstatic about Harden joining our team. He has the skills to take our rotation to the next level. Let’s just hope he stays healthy.

P.S. Mariotti’s flip flopping is stunning.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 9, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Mariotti

Can you imagine a poor waitperson in a restaurant waiting on him?

Okay I’ll have the steak. No I’ll have the lobster. No I’ll have the tilapia.

Waitperson brings out tilapia.

No I want the steak. I always wanted the steak.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Usually Mariotti...

... waits six months or so before he flip-flops, figuring most people would have forgotten the earlier story. Never saw him do it in one day before.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Successful and winning teams = less column material for Mariotti

So of course he’s going to poke holes at things. The fact that Jerry Reinsdorf and the White Sox won a World Series in this town significantly deflated his balloon in Chicago. With Ozzie and the Sox having a surprising year once again and the Cubs poised for a legitimate World Series run Mariotti is left counting the days until Bears training camp opens.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Imagine his brainstorming sessions

“Well, the Cubs and Sox won today, the Bulls signed Rose as I said they should, the Bears are too far away from mini-camp to be relevant, and the Hawks are a feel-good story….Honey….I can’t think of anything to bitch about in my column. Help!”

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 9, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

the Rush lost

and are out of the playoffs. So sad :(

Go ahead, Z me.

by tony412 on Jul 9, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster is a wily son of a gun

I give him credit. He gets into some tight situations of his own doing. But he typically doesn’t melt, sucks it up and somehow keeps his team in a game. There are lots of pitchers who would have crumbled or imploded under the situations he got himself into the last couple of games. Dempster reminds me of Jack Morris in this regard.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think the stressful situations involved with being a closer

has really helped Dempster. Has that experience of pitching in not so good situations and finding a way to get out of them.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster did a really nice job after all the walks...

... retired 10 in a row after that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Demp was straight up on after that.

It was pretty to see.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

You gotta give Demp credit

He worked his a$$ off this off-season to get himself in shape and it seems to have really paid off. His mental toughness is what impresses me the most. He pitches himself into these jams, but doesn’t fold. He keeps throwing his pitches and somehow gets the other team to get themselves out. It amazing and a pleasure to watch (since he is on our team of course).

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 9, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Word.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

And now we have TWO Canadian starters

Because if memory serves Rich Harden is originally from Victoria BC. “Oh Canada….”

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here's hoping

they start singing the Canadian National Anthem before Dempster’s and Harden’s starts.

by madeindetroit on Jul 9, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe I'll learn more of the words then

“Oh, Canada ???”

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 9, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Official Lyrics of O Canada!

Official Lyrics of O Canada!
O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

by adam316 on Jul 9, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Psst!

Act!”

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

“Good day, I’m Bob and this is my brother Doug. How’s it going eh?”

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Jul 9, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Dad!

Bob broke yer beer!”

“You a$$holes!”

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you

at least now I can say that I have seen all the words to the song.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 9, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not only are they both from Canada

but they’re both from the same province, British Columbia. I doubt any team in MLB history has at the same time had two starters from B.C.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jul 9, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Morris

He actually looks a bit like Jack Morris, too, now that you mention it.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not really.

Dempster:

Morris:

I’m not seeing the resemblance.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not his face - just his physique.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh.

Well, maybe.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cardinals

Maybe the Cardinals will overpay to try and match this trade and make a dumb move.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply actions  

They might make a move but

nothing drastic because of a knee jerk reaction. They rarely make bad moves.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Jul 9, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

They love Burnett

and now they think he’ll come cheap after watching the Cubs get Harden without hurting the team or future

by Itchy on Jul 9, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lost in last night's game:

From the game notes on Espn.com….

Cubs LF Alfonso Soriano said he’ll wait until after the All-Star break to start playing again. On the DL since June 12 with a broken left hand, Soriano said he does plan to attend the All-Star Game in New York, even if he can’t play.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions  

That's fine.

The team is winning again (3 of 4, 5 of 8). They have a top notch starting pitcher arriving this week. Let Soriano heal completely.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I think it’ll be nice when he’s back, but he needs to get back w/ the least amount of chance for a recurrance.

Early on in his DL stay, I heard folks talk like a rehab stint might be in order. Then, until this latest news, it seemed like they were going to simply plug him straight into the lineup upon his return. Maybe this extra time will allow him to shake the rust off somewhere before rejoining the active roster?

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope he has a rehab...

he needs to get the rust off down in the minors. He didn’t last time this year and looked bad in the field and struggled at the plate for a couple of weeks. Let him get that out of his system in AAA.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Smart Move On Soriano's Part

It’s just good common sense to not risk anything over a meaningless* exhibition game.

  • - but I hope the NL wins!

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 9, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

what?

that guess-hack selfish stats-whoring hopping bad left-fielder! How selfish of him to take time off!

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks a bunch

I was just about to ask you guys if you knew what was going on with Soriano. I would also like to see him get some time in the minors to get back in playing form.

by Mapmaker on Jul 9, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

What were D Lee and Mike F jawing about last night??

Late in the game, Fontenot went to his left quite a ways to make a nice play, throwing out the batter at 1st. Then he and Lee appeared to exchange words, and neither seemed very happy. Anyone know what that was about?

Cubs Win!! Cubs Win!

by Ihatethecards on Jul 9, 2008 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

I saw that

and I think Fontenot threw the ball before Derek got to the base. Lee did not look happy.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Jul 9, 2008 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do either of you remember

an approximate inning?

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 9, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanx

I want to watch the mlb.tv replay to see it

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on Jul 9, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

me too. interesting.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

let us know what you make of it...

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jay Bruce

O-4 with 4 Ks. Not too impressive in his 1st start at Wrigley. Is Dustyball stunting his growth?

"I don't think anybody's paying attention to the Cubs." - Prince Fielder

by jasoniniowa on Jul 9, 2008 8:52 AM CDT reply actions  

He's hitting .230 in June and July

The league has caught up with him after his torrid start.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

No the league figured him out.

Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs

by nji232 on Jul 9, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

he looked awful....I dont think Cotts threw him one strike

...of course Cotts didnt throw any strikes last night

by JB 23 on Jul 9, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Nicely played!

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 9, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't blame this one on Dusty

He’s just having his adjustment to the majors troubles. (and his career start was a massive fluke, anyway.) Dusty is playing him everyday and leaving him alone. The league is just figuring out ways to pitch him.

He should still be a great player. Just not this season.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pshaw!

Bruce is another Corey Patterson, just like Pie. Real prospects hit immediately and consistently when they hit the majors, just like this guy.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm

“Real prospects hit immediately and consistently when they hit the majors.”

Really? Ever check George Brett’s or Mike Schmidt’s first-year stats? Brett went 5 for 40 as a call-up in 1973. Schmidt hit .196 in 367 at bats the same year.

Yes – some prospects do hit well right when they get to the majors – Ryne Sandberg and Eddie Murray are good examples. Others take a few years to develop.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

he's being sarcastic

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Viva el Birdos...

...ought to be an interesting read today.

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 8:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Who goes down?

Might Marshall be the odd man out? I hope not, because I personally like Marshall a lot, but I think he can be sent back down to Iowa (to stretch out as a reliever, perhaps?), leaving Marquis (I know) as the 5th starter….

Either way, I love the Harden trade. Gutsy, bold move, but one that contending teams need to make to win it all.

Plus, it cannot be overstated—even if Harden were to miss time (god forbid), the Cubs pitching staff is essentially unchanged from the day before the trade. Gallagher was in the bullpen, meaning our 5 starters were Z, Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, and Marshall. Now, Marshall/Marquis might move to the bullpen (or minors), and are available (along with Lieber) if Harden (or anyone) misses any time. And to fill Gallagher’s spot in the bullpen? We got Gaudin.

A masterful trade….we lost one piece we could use (Gallagher, who I think may be special in the long run), and three pieces that we really couldn’t find playing time for (Murton and Patterson because our team is pretty deep in terms of LFers and middle infielders; Donaldson because Soto’s play blocks him for the foreseeable future).

by Chadnudj on Jul 9, 2008 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

My gut feeling is that either Marshall goes down the AAA to stay stretched out...

...or Cotts goes because Lou wasn’t thrilled with how he pitched last night.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

You think Lou would base that decision on one start?

I thought Cotts was actually starting to throw better as of late. (Didn’t get a chance to see last nights game though).

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Jul 9, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's Lou Piniella.

And Marshall pitched very well in his last outing.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cotts

won’t go anywhere. He seems to be Lou’s favorite lefty out of the pen these days.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can't imagine he's too happy with Howry these days either.

but he, along with all the Cajuns, seems above criticism in Lou’s eyes.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree with you on many things there..

the biggest thing about this trade is just what you said. If something were to happen with Harden where he does become injured, our rotation is basically the same. Plus we picked up another guy, Gaudin, who can start. Gallagher is the only guy in that trade who was showing true value this year, Murton and Patterson really didn’t have a true spot on the team and Donaldson is a toss up b/c he is still a few years away. As a whole i think Hendry did a great job.

"Go Cubs Go"

by mkcubs21 on Jul 9, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cotts will go ( for now)

Basically unless they want to make a rush deal he is the one they can send down
and keep( besides Marshall who I think Lou wants to keep, love them lefties) Later maybe they can make a trade for Wuertz or eat at least 80% of Marquis salary to get him off their hands. I have said this a lot. Marquis is not that bad but Lou does not trust him and will skip him whenever possible. I think he sticks with Marshall for now.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 9, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Cotts has pitched well lately and is a Lefty...

I would think it would be Wuertz before Cotts.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would be VERY surprised if it's Cotts...

If they aren’t going to use Marshall in the rotation I would send him down to keep stretched out.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

But Wuertz can not be sent down

Cotts can. Like I said I think it would be temporary till a deal for Wuertz or someone else
is worked out. I think Lou wants to keep Marshall in the rotation.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 9, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

they aren’t going to take Marquis out of the rotation. He’s making too much to be a reliever and already expressed in Spring he wouldn’t do it. So, unless they can trade Marquis I don’t see Marshall in the rotation right now. Down the road I think he will be back in it.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I want Marquis gone...

But if he’s traded, the rotation is:

Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly and Marshall.

Who steps in if someone is hurt? Lieber? Someone from AAA? Who’ve we got that’s ready?

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gaudin, possibly.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gaudin...

Part of the reason they wanted him in the trade. He’s a long reliever who can spot start.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's also Kevin Hart.

But yeah, Gaudin is a fine sixth starter.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Which is why trading Marquis is now an option.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

True.

I bet the Yankees would take him, though.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

We have to be careful here.

1) Z’s already been on the DL this year.
2) Harden is Harden.
3) Dempster worked hard on conditioning but is still a converted reliever.
4) Lilly doesn’t do back-to-back full seasons w/o a DL trip.
5) Marshall is Marshall.

Having three of these guys on the DL at the same time is not conceivable. Having four of these guys on the DL at the same time is not impossible. I’m for dumping Marquis, but only if we get another pitcher back.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

We have guys who can fill in for Marquis.

And by that I don’t just mean Marshall, Lieber, Gaudin and Hart.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

He does have one option year left.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jul 9, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gotta love the headline from yesterdays blog....oops!

Buster Olney Blog

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Jul 9, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply actions  

Olney loves the Brewers...

he was all over the CC trade and gushses over the Brewers farm system.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Email

Just sent him a “feedback” email on that piece. I would think writers for ESPN would try and see both sides of the fence…. Oh well, “coming up next on Sportscenter…Redsox Redsox Redsox!”

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Jul 9, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice...

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Olney

was interviewed last night and said he knew nothing about the trade. Neither did Gammons. Imagine that, a deal going down without it being leaked to the press. It is kind of refreshing. JH knew what he was doing and caught the talking heads with their heads up their rear ends. I like the move.

A Cub fan in Cardinal territory.

by FSArkCubsFan on Jul 9, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

DeLuca and Miles in Chicago knew about it Sunday/Monday

just not the national guys.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

JH definitely pulled one over there.

Kudos. :)

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Arod

They had to track Arods love life and divorce. Couldn’t think about the Cubs during such an important time in world history Arod getting a divorce. OOH the humanity!

And they had an exclusive the Red Sox were going to trade a single a pitcher for a single a catcher. Had to track that down too.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Even more impressive...

When you consider this had to have been in the works for weeks. They were probably haggling over parts. My guess is that the C.C. move forced Hendry to put someone else on the table.

You figure Gallagher and Murton were gone, so do you think he was holding onto Patterson?

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm really surprised the A's took Murton.

Don’t they already have a surplus of outfielders?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sort of, but not really.

Emil Brown is their left fielder for this year. I’m guessing he is part-time LF/DH for them this year and takes over in left next year.

by Great Odin's Raven on Jul 9, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well....

... Murton is clearly a better choice for them going forward than Brown.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Some have said they need RH hitting

Beane said he made this particular deal in part because of a rash of injuries. Not sure which OFs are hurting.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thought I heard somewhere...

...that Merton and Patterson were heading to their AAA club?

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was Gallagher.

In the Suntimes and Trib. SG was the last part to the trade.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Makes sense.

I like that dude, and I think Lou and JH did too.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep... I think we all did but

if he was the missing link to get the deal done it’s not all that bad.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

In fairness to Olney

today he compared it to “Dewey beats Truman.” At least he acknowledged his error, which is more than most Mariottis . . .errr. . . .sportswriters do.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thoughts

I wouldn’t mind sending Marshall down right now to continue pitching every 5 days. Let Marquis pitch 1 or 2 more starts to hopefully build up his value and hope teams become desperate nearing the deadline and the Cubs can unload him for some prospects without eating too much salary. Then bring Marshall back up to be #5

Also, remember how close the Cubs were to supposedly letting go Edmonds? Where would this team be if he didn’t turn it around?

BTW, how is Sam Fuld doing?

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Jul 9, 2008 9:02 AM CDT reply actions  

Terribly.

Sam Fuld’s OPSing somewhere around .650 in AA, IIRC.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, cwyers

Can you give us the numbers on Harden? Injuries aside, just how good is he/what can we expect? I’m more old school and use the typical ERA/WHIP and K:BBs to determine how good. But what’s Harden look like through the Matrix?

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I posted this last night...

...but for those that missed it, here’s a projection of Harden from the guy that does the ZiPS projections. I think it’s a touch optimistic, myself.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks

But why did they only project Harden to make 8 more starts the rest of the year? They’re counting on him being out for a month plus?

Likewise, Gaudin gets 11 starts? Odd projections.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's based upon past playing time.

And with Harden, he hasn’t played a whole lot in the past. As with Gaudin, he’s been used as a starter in the past – and I’d like to see him or Marshall take Marquis’ spot in the rotation, but that’s another topic.

For projection systems, I tend to buy into their rate stats, but do my own assumptions about playing time.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, here's

to hoping Harden beats the playing time projections. I’d really like to see him stay healthy. Get him on Wood’s diet/training program or something.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow. Even if those projections are a tad optimistic....

With those projected rates, Harden could miss a ton of time and still be ridiculously valuable. 13 K/9 for next year? Crazy. As long as he is available for the playoffs at his level of productiion, I would say that his contract and the talent we gave up are EASILY worth his sick K and solid BB & HR rates. Compare this to the Yankees signing Clemens for a part-year stint, and it seems like even considering the (sizable) injury risk, we got a good deal. It had to happen. Now let’s just hope it works out for the best….

by Canseco's Roid Party on Jul 9, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ridiculous.

Marshall is pitching better than Marquis. I am literally scared to give Marquis more starts…it makes me panic.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd love

to see Marquis pitch…

in a Yankees uni.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

My point was to use Marquis

to hopefully showcase him in 1 or 2 more starts to then be able to trade him. Marshall seems to be a guy who isn’t fazed by anything, I don’t think it would bother him to tell him to go make 2 starts in Iowa and be ready to come back in the rotation the rest of the year.

Teams become desperate nearing 7/31 and that desperation leads to front offices convincing themselves that available players can help their team more than they are capable.\

Or the Cubs could DFA Marquis and probably have to pay a much larger portion of his remaining contract because they would not be dealing from a position of power. I’ve heard for a few years how many of the Cubs big guys have “back loaded” contracts, I would think because of that eventually they will scale back the big signings.

I’m all about doing everything to win this year but we can still think about the future and letting Marquis make 1 or 2 more hopefully won’t make or break the Cubs season.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Jul 9, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just an observation...

from someone who is still relatively new here. Has there ever been any Cub player who has been hated on as much as Marquis has? Good Lord, it’s like he’s the Anti-Christ or something. I can’t imagine what was said here about Neffi or Hundley, but it couldn’t have been any worse, I’m sure. With that being said, I don’t disagree with any of it. :) Keep on keeping on.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Neifi, JJ, Macias and Corey

Maybe LaTroy Hawkins too, possibly Dempster, um….

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Poor Corey...

That, I can fully understand. Drove me crazy too…

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Marquis brings a lot of this on himself

With his self-serving sound bites and stubbornness. Hawkins and Hundley made their own beds, too. Cubs fans are usually pretty forgiving of bad play—if the effort is there. But if either the effort seems lacking or the attitude seems to suck, the free passes run out.

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I pity Marquis really

I can honestly remember hating LaTroy Hawkins. I cringe when Jason is out there.

I was livid every time I saw Hawkins’ stinking face.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 9, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Against whom?

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

no, like olives.

He pits them. Little stick. Olive. Pit, pit.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

we only hate him because he's beautiful

oh, wait. that’s not it. We dislike him because he’s a whiney tool who gets paid WAY more than he’s worth.

Soriano takes WAY more crap, and he’s a better player by far.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Did a pretty nice job of it, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did they do Gallaghers

and is it still the goofiest photo on MLB

If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.

by carolinacub on Jul 9, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

sigh.

no more “MA! THEY’RE GIVING ME MONEY! TO PLAY BASEBALL!!!!” picture…

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Herd

is saying Billy Beane is the Warren Buffet of GMs and that the Cubs shouldn’t have picked up the phone.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Can we never mention him again?

Like, unless he catches fire or something?

Thanks.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fair

To both of you. Just reporting what’s on the news here. I don’t like, believe him, or anything. ;)

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry for the strong reaction, that guy has said some things about Mizzou football and the Cubs in the past.

Lets go ahead and make him look as stupid as MU football did.

Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs

by nji232 on Jul 9, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

If he turns out wrong here,

we should all be listening. This is pretty over the top.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

and no worries, I wasn't offended or anything

I should have caveated the original post.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sports talk guys are not "the news"

They are editorialists. They are “the news” about as much as you are. Or I am.

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 9, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's fair.

Again, I just happened to be listening, and it was an interesting perspective. It really wasn’t an endorsement of the show…just like a “dudes, this is on, and talking about us” thing. ;)

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cowherd wants a strong reaction

His rant about Favre yesterday made me hope Favre comes back….

And gets his knee ripped apart in the first quarter of the first game.

Sometimes I laugh. Sometimes I get mad. Sometimes I skip ahead on my iPod.

He’s an entertainer, plain and simple.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're not alone with the Favre talk

I’m about as diehard a Packer fan as there is, I live and work in Green Bay. If Favre shows up at the airport to report to the team, it would be all I could do not to drive over there and hit him with my car.

by Great Odin's Raven on Jul 9, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Colon Blowhard

Will soon be rendered irrelevant, much like Papa Joe Chevalier and the Fabulous Sports Babe.

Eat More Katsui

by CaliCub on Jul 9, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I happen to like the ESPN national hosts. . .

. . . but turn the radio off whenever Colin Cowturd comes on

by leothelip on Jul 9, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

He had a good gimmick with his aound the herd thing.

Then he let it get to his head, and now he thinks his opinion actually means something. When the whole reason he succeeded was that segment where he shut up and let others talk

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 9, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I thought I was the most diehard Packer fan....

However, I don’t think Brett comes back…...or should, for that matter. I have already surrendered, long ago, to the concept of the NFL without him. Stay gone, you went out on great terms, not as a guy who hung on too long and HAD to retire…..

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

This deserves it's own thread...

But I’m a Packers fan too and I don’t want Favre anywhere near this team. I’ve had it with late-game interceptions followed by, “He’s a gunslinger” or “He’s just having fun out there.”

You know who had fun this year? Giants fans. That’s it. That’s the list. Everyone else had a rotten experience for at least one game.

Favre, statistically, is the best ever. But I’ll always remember him as lost potential. Good as he was, he could have been better.

And it sucks he didn’t care enough to do it.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

And if you miss

there are plenty of Bears fans that will happily fill up with four dollar a gallon gas and drive up to help you!

by JFCubFan on Jul 9, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Personally

I’m going to miss that drug-addicted, interception-chucking, big-game losing hillbilly alcoholic

Bitter? Not me.

by Mapmaker on Jul 9, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

But they do not try and entertain

They try and upset. They try to instigate arguments. Cowherd is basically a Jerry Springer.

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 9, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jerry Springer is an entertainer too

So is Rush Limbaugh. So is O’Reilly.

I truly believe that if someone told Bill O’Reilly, “We’re going to double your salary, but now we want you to do your thing IN FAVOR of the Democrats and AGAINST Republicans,” he could pull it off.

I think Cowherd could wake up tomorrow and passionately and irritatingly argue that the Cubs fleeced the A’s or that Favre should sit at home.

I don’t think he cares.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

And sadly

And sadly one of our stations is the Sox station and they have to be biased.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who cares?

The Billy Beane legend is as overblown as the Dave Duncan legend that he turns everyone around. Yes, they are good but not perfect. How about this trade for Beane? Worked out well didn’t it?

Tim Hudson
December 16, 2004: Traded by the Oakland Athletics to the Atlanta Braves for Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer, and Charles Thomas.

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Um I would not mess with Dave Duncan

Piniero shut out the Phillies last night. He could pick up Borowski and turn him into
a quality STARTER.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 9, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can't stand the dude

but you’re right… Braden Looper, Joel Piniero, Ryan Franklin, even Todd Wellemeyer for cripes sake!

by Great Odin's Raven on Jul 9, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying that Duncan isn't good but his rep is overblown

He is an excellent pitching coach but he’s not perfect. Part of the rep is that the Cardinals sign so many of these types of guys that some will get better but not all. Sidney Ponson? Rick Ankiel? Brett Tomko?

On Piniero, he isn’t a Duncan turnaround. He won 16 games for Seattle once. His problem is injuries. He’s a decent pitcher when healthy. I actually wished the Cubs gambled on him when he was available.

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually look at Piniero's stats

He was good early and did have some injuries but was basically healthy in both
05 and 06 and SUCKED. Bosox tried to make him a reliever and he SUCKED. Duncan gets him and viola a good starting pitcher. Of course he does not win them all but nobody makes more successes out of retreads than he does.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Jul 9, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

haha..

If he turned Borowski into a quality starter, he would indeed be the new Messiah…

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Given what we know about LaRussa

And his history with Canseco and McGwire, perhaps Duncan is simply the best pharmacist in the game…

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's a complete ass-clown

Thankfully we have Waddle and Silvy here in ChiTown 9-noon.

The only thing worse than listening to Colon blather about the Cubs was listening to him try to blather about hockey.

ESPN constantly tries to promote his program and I can see why. He’s awful.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jul 9, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hate all these guys who know a little bit about baseball and football...

and maybe basketball, suddenly become hockey experts too…

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Want to just remind everyone that Wuertz is out of options.

Unless the Cubs do something crazy with the DL, DFA somebody, or decide to send Marmol down to AAA, it’ll be Cotts or Marshall.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:13 AM CDT reply actions  

I think they'll trade Wuertz

He has some value. Surely there are lots of teams with a hole or three on their pitching staff.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe in due time.

But I don’t think they’ll rush to do that. And we’re thin in the outfield right now, so I figure they’ll call someone up before tonight’s game.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

It will be interesting to see who they would bring up

if the motivation is to add depth to the OF. Guys already on the 40-man include Hoffpauir, Fuld, Fox, and Pie. Fuld’s not an option and Lou has said he was done with Micah in the OF. I don’t think they’d really want to go with Fox or Pie for different reasons.

I won’t be surprised if they stick with 13 pitchers for a bit, but if Edmonds is hurting, is there a chance we see the brief return of Felix Pie?

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

Cubs could get away with Mark DeRosa in left and Reed Johnson in center until Edmonds heals a bit and Soriano returns. Plus Daryl Ward is on the bench. Or they could acquire a utility type in a move for Michael Wuertz.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wuertz could certainly be traded at some time.

But probably not today, and I think the Cubs make a roster move today. You’re right – maybe they don’t, but I have a hunch. I’ve never claimed it’s anything more than that.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing Hoffpauir will be called up...

... and stay till Soriano returns.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Might as well.

Gaudin is like a hybrid of Wuertz and Jon Lieber. He’s the same type of pitcher as Wuertz with a slider as his strength, but is the same starter/long relief man as Lieber. I think the starter/long relief men are more valuable.

by Great Odin's Raven on Jul 9, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's really interesting.

Because Cotts and Marshall have been productive, and I’d love to keep both of them over Wuertz.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Maybe there’s a trade working for Wuertz? I can’t help but think Leiber’s on thin ice.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

What exactly did Lieber do to get on the S-List?!

Seriously, I must have missed a game did he blow something early when I was working a lot, and couldn’t watch? I really don’t get the Lieber phopia.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

When Sidney Ponson has a job on a team with playoff asperations, Jon Lieber is a valuable resource.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like Leiber

He just hasn’t been used a lot and Gaudin is basically going to be in the same role as him. Lou has been using him as a mop up man….and probably not deserved…but there are tough decisions coming up( what to do with Marquis, Weurtz, Eyre when he gets off the DL) and it may turn into a “who can most afford to give up?” scenario.

Nice problem to have, but you’ve gotta think that Leiber is one of those options.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I get that.

But he’s done nothing to get on that thin ice, unless I missed it. Like did I miss Lieber gives up the disaster game? As far as I can tell, he’s your proven long stretch reliever. And that’s sweet. I don’t get why he isn’t out there more often.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

and Gaudin is the same type of pitcher....

...the only disaster game for Leiber was when he got his only start. I agree, I think he’s pitched as well as expected. As has Cotts. Do you send down Cotts (your only LH in the pen)?

But can you afford two long relievers (and with a Marshall/Marquis decision coming…3) in that bullpen? What do you do with Eyre when he comes back from the DL?

I’m not questioning you, I like Leiber and what he brings, but there’s some tough decisions coming up for this staff in the next week.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Leiber

has done anything but for some reason Lou doesn’t go to him very often. It seemed like he sat for weeks after his try in the rotation didn’t go so well.

by sue369 on Jul 9, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Lieber has barely been used.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Jul 9, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Marshall

will go down. I don’t know why anyone thinks differently.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

You mean TWSW?

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well,

because if this is our year, and we’re going to try to win now, Marquis needs to be traded to make room for Mr. Marshall.

That’s why.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Lou has to decide between Marshall and Cotts

He is going to pick Cotts.

Cotts is more suited for late inning Relief. He has done it more often, he has had success at it and he can strike more guys out. Because of these qualities, you can bring Cotts in to the middle of an inning with Runners on. Yu can’t necessarily say that with Marhsall.

Marshall’s value to this team is as a starter. If he can’t start with the big club, than send him down to AAA so he is ready if needed.

"Aw, how could he (Jorge Orta) lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico." -- Harry Carey

by TheRiot Police on Jul 9, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought Wuertz had one option year left

but has to clear Optional Assignment Waivers before he can be optioned to the minors. His debut was Opening Day 2004 which gives him more than 3 years of service.

Option Year 2004 and 2006.

He was never optioned to the minors in 2005 and 2007.

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jul 9, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

From NHL.com

Rich Harden & Ryan Dempster name honorary Team Captains for the upcoming soon to be official “Winter Classic” @ Wrigley Field.

I've been bleeding double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers

by parrotinct on Jul 9, 2008 9:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Speaking of which...

anyone know when tickets go on sale for this? I’d love to go see my Stanley Cup champion Red Wings kick the crap out of the Blackhawks at Wrigley!

by Great Odin's Raven on Jul 9, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

The game hasn't even been made official yet.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster

I thought I read sometime in the past Demp was a pretty good hockey player as a youngster too.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is there any athlete from Canada who wasn't?

I think Fergie Jenkins was a pretty fair hockey player also.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Al I justed wanted to correct you

when you said that Toni Ginnetti’s column this morning was erroneous when she stated that Jim Hendry’s first deal with Billy Beane was for Mark Bellhorn. I am sure you did not hear the press conference with Jim Hendry before the game because you were at the game, but Jim Hendry said that was his first trade with Beane was for Mark Bellhorn when he was the Assistant GM under McPhail. He said this was his first trade and McPhail had given complete authority to make the trade on his own.

by cubdreamer on Jul 9, 2008 9:26 AM CDT reply actions  

I missed the PC too.

What was the Bellhorn deal? Details, anyone?

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's in the original post.

I did not hear the press conference—if Hendry says MacPhail gave him authority to make that deal, I believe him.

He also did engineer the Barrett trade.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gah, sorry

Just waking up with my coffee here. Thanks.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hendry and Beane

like to deal with each other. Our three main trading partners are Oakland, San Diego and Baltimore.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's really interesting.

Thanks Josh.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pittsburgh?

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope."

by californiachicagoan on Jul 9, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Used to be

But since Pittsburgh has a new GM, they aren’t talking to us anymore. Dave Littlefield was crucified for his deals with the Cubs, and the fact that he was hired by us as a scout after he got fired in Pittsburgh just makes Pirate fans even angrier.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I heart Aramis.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did anyone hear...

...the report on WSCR that there were also preliminary discussions between the Cubs and Mariners, and the Cubs would have sent Gallagher, Patterson, Murton and Pie to Seattle for Bedard? The host (yesterday after Boers and Bernstein) said he had a CREDIBLE source, but did not reveal…

Not saying that I necessarily believe it, just thought it was interesting…

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Jul 9, 2008 9:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Yep...

...as mentioned by Abbatacola (sp?).

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll take Rich Harden 100 times out of 100 over Eric Bedard

Bedard has been found out to be soft, whiny and a malcontent in Seattle. Sounds like he also was a bit of a jerk in Baltimore too. NO thanks.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

And we'd have lost Pie

I’m not ready to pull that plug yet.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mind if I pull the cart in front of the horse for a second?

Assuming all are healthy, Z, Lilly, Dempster and now Harden. Do you think Lou would go four deep in the playoffs? That would be a nice luxury.

by Great Odin's Raven on Jul 9, 2008 9:36 AM CDT reply actions  

He certainly wouldn't...

...need to pull Zambrano early from his Game 1 in anticipation of pitching him in a Game 5 that never ends up existing…

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Assuming all are healthy...

We’d have to see who is hot in September. I could see Lilly being the odd man out of that.

It also depends on who we’d face. If the season ended today, it’s be the D’Backs again. (Talk about putting the cart before the horse…)

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Only in the NLCS

The Cubs can’t face the Brewers in the first round. You’d likely see a 4 man rotation for a 7 game series.

by dr stabbingworth on Jul 9, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dayn Perry of Fox Sports says,

“According to Baseball Prospectus, the Cubs have a 94.8 percent chance of making the postseason, while the Brewers and Cardinals have, respectively, a 59.0 percent chance and a 25.4 percent chance of getting there. Obviously, Baseball Prospectus sees the Cubs as mortal locks for the postseason, and they see the Cards as having a much worse chance than the Brewers.”

I like the sound of that.

by adam316 on Jul 9, 2008 9:44 AM CDT reply actions  

I do too, so don't take this the wrong way

but that makes me nervous.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dayn Perry

This guy wouldn’t give the Cubs credit if they won 130 games, swept through the playoffs, cured cancer and AIDS and created world peace all on a Tuesday morning.

So this giving them their due has some legs.

Go Cubs

by puckishcubsfan on Jul 9, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Note the rest of his article

hopes for injuries or Marquis meltdowns and ignores the pitching depth we do have, especially Lieber.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

WS Championship odds unchanged at my local bookies

from a couple days ago (11-2 to win it all). Course they were much longer in March.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

The pitching staff

Starters…Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marquis

Bullpen…Wood, Marmol, Howry, Gaudin, Lieber, Cotts, Marshall

Contingency…Eyre coming off the DL, Hill re-finding himself to help out in the bullpen perhaps, Hart at Triple A, Ascanio at Triple A

Losses…Gallagher (a good young pitcher who will have success at this level), probably Wuertz

===

All total I think our pitching staff is in fine shape. There are some fallback plans should the injury bug hit. And who is to say Hendry won’t add another arm to the bullpen, especially of the left-handed variety.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 9:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Wuertz?

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

icubs

have got to be LOVING all of this…..they are stacked right now, plus don’t forget about jeff samardzija and the room the cubs will have to make when he comes up later this year

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

he's out of options

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

He probably won't

come up until Sept. By then, with rosters expanded, no room will need to be made, at least for this year.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Garciaparra or Dye?

Let me start out by saying that I love this deal and hope that it all works out. It hink it is worth the risk.

The question now becomes whether this is going to be a Garciaparra deal or a Dye deal. Both had huge injury issues when Garciaparra was traded to the Cubs and Dye went to the White Sox. Garciaparra didn’t really help the Cubs when he was on the roster, but Dye has been as important to the White Sox as any player over there has been. He’s a deserved all-star.

So, which one is it going to be? I guess we’ll have to stay tuned to find out, but I’m glad Hendry has taken this chance.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Jul 9, 2008 10:00 AM CDT reply actions  

Dye

Speaking of Dye, I’m no Sox fan but it seems to me unfair that Fukodome will be an NL starter while Dye wasn’t even selected for the AL team. Compare their stats.

"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979

by danimal15 on Jul 9, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

compare their votes.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blame your fellow Baseball fans

It’s their votes that matter. Also, take into consideration, Dome’s huge fan base from across the globe.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Jul 9, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

this may have been said before

but i’m at work and don’t have time to read the whole thread…..

but why DFA marquis….he has been looking okay lately and if harden does go down he can be patched right back into the lineup…..and we don’t eat his ridiculous contract

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:05 AM CDT reply actions  

He won't be DFA'ed

I suspect that Marshall will go down as Hendry tries to trade Marquis. The All-Star break is also coming up. The 5th spot can likely be skipped anyway and it gives Hnedry more time for another deal.

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

i'm responding to al's point

that the cubs may like DFA marquis….see the article

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Point is...

... “DFA” doesn’t just mean “dump him”. It means you have ten days to do something, including a possible trade. Thus he MIGHT be “designated for assignment” and traded; DFA just gets him off the roster, opening a slot. That’s the point.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

understood

i just like keeping marquis around and not eating his contract vs scrambling if harden goes down and eating his contract

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just not sure

I suspect that if he does get DFA’ed then Hendry has something already in the works. If not, I still think Marshall may go down until after the break with the expectation that he would return.

Harden could slide into Marshall’s Saturday start.

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Unless Marquis is DFA'd...

... that seems the most likely scenario.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

sigh.

I’d much rather have Harden take Marquis’ slot on Friday. Marshal is actually good.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like him to pitch Friday also....

Saturday, here in New Mexico, is cartoon Cub gameday….there will be NO TV for us!!! I wanna watch….........

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Marquis will be DFA'd before tonight's game.

Wuertz is out of options, they need Cedeno, Cotts is pitching too good, (and is only lefty). Sure, Marquis is pitching decent lately, but it’s only a matter of time before he loses it again. Lou is looking for a reason to dump him, because is resistant to coaching. As far as eating his contract: With the deal made yesterday, Harden & Gaudin under contract at a reasonable rate, they can afford to eat some of Marquis’ contract. They’ll have 10 days to work out a trade, and the Yankees are a likely destination.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

that would raise

my estimation of this deal significantly.

Who do we get back from the Yankees for him?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I haven't thought that far yet...

But this is really the only sane option. It takes care of so many “problems” with the roster. Oh, and you’ll like this… Pie could come back as a 5th outfielder, and be used to pinch run, which is his speciality.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

thank the lords of Kobol

if that happens.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just looked at the Yankee 40 man.

Can’t see much we would need. Unless they have someone who I don’t know about & Hendry does. Yanks do need pitching though, and Marquis would fit, plus he’s from New York.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

So would I. Just not sure if the Yanks

think he’s expendable. He fills many holes for them.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Given that he's not hitting for them

I’m hoping they’d prefer using Alberto Gonzalez in the utility IF role.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I forgot...

Marshall is a lefty, Lou wants 2 lefties in the rotation.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

i understand your point

however i just disagree….like i said, why trade marquis when we all know harden is injury prone….whynot keep him around as an insurance policy (by the way, this is coming from a HUGE marquis hater)

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

We don't need him for insurance...

Hart is insurance enough. Besides, IF Hill can get his head together, he’s another insurance policy.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

hill?!?!?

he has got a long way to go before he even enters the conversation…..hart i can understand, but hill?!?

by the way, isn’t this a great problem to discuss? too much pitching and what to do with it haha

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Hill gets it together

he’s more than an insurance policy.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, he is.

I do hope he gets it together and comes back. He’s a valuable lefty when he is right.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

we all agree

our 5 man rotation would be SICK with the 2007 rich hill back

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Now of course

this is really optimistic, BUT:

If Hill’s new delivery/cleared head indeed has allowed him to find himself as evidenced by his last performance, he could feasibly make 3-4 starts (assuming they’re very good ones) and be right back with the big club by the end of July.

Do I think this will happen? No. But it is possible. So he’s maybe not as far away as we think.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I said this yesterday...

There is no way he will get Lou’s trust back this year. Certainly not enough to be put on the playoff roster.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think

that’s necessarily true. If Hill’s problems really were physical - ie, his delivery was flawed - then it’s not a head-case issue, and Hill should get a chance, on a short leash.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think

he could get a short leash, for sure. He may not have a lot of Lou’s trust, but given how far he’s fallen and how fast, I think Lou would be willing to give him another shot. It’d be a very short leash though.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

no walks

in his last start, I believe.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes. In Rookie Ball...

He’s a ways away.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

What were his lines

on the few starts before then? Weren’t they pretty bad? I’d love to see him get back, but performing well at RB means little to me. Plus, one game does not a trend make.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Jul 9, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Had this same conversation yesterday with some folks. Don’t see him helping this year.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see him helping either...

...and frankly, I don’t think there’s a big push to get him back this year. We have options, he needs to figure out what’s wrong this summer and we’ll see ya in spring training.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Keep in mind:

Hill was not even considered in a trade for anybody. This means the Cubs still have hope for him. IF, (notice the capital letters), Hill can right the ship, he could be valuable to the rotation. Another good outing at RB, and he will likely go to Iowa for next start. Just sayin’.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe He wasn't considered in Trade

talks, cause no one wanted to take on that type of project.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

he may not have as long as people think.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Phil Nevin watched him pitch last weekend

He said that Hill looked extremely sharp. Granted, this is against rookie league ballplayers but he said that his pitches looked sharp. It has always been a mental thing for Hill anyway. His stuff is there. I wouldn’t count him out just yet.

by Kornchex on Jul 9, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't care what it was

so long as he’s over it and gets another chance.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Starters we have right now who are clearly better than Marquis:
  • Sean Marshall
  • Chad Gaudin

Starters who are at least not any worse:

  • Kevin Hart
  • Jon Lieber

And we have plenty of players in AAA who, if they are actually worse than Marquis, aren’t so muchh worse that you’d appreciably notice if they had to make three fill-in starts down the stretch.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Homonyms are a doozie, aren't they?

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where in the world is

Carmen Pignatiello? I haven’t heard this name in a while. DL? Not pitching well in the minors?

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Jul 9, 2008 10:07 AM CDT reply actions  

Iowa

He’s been inconsistent in Iowa, but generally not as good as how he looked in Spring Training.

by John Q Freejazz on Jul 9, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

We saw him get

lit up like a Christmas tree a few weeks ago. Not good.

by sue369 on Jul 9, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

fyi

not sure what harden does to the rotation, but as of right now sunday showcases lincecum vs dempster AT wrigley…..that is going to be awesome

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions  

OMG.

You’re right. Sunday will rock.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am going to keep an eye on that motion late though...

I’m pretty sure Lincecum comes off the rubber too early as he gets tired.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Mets touched up Lincecum last night.

His line wasn’t good last night. Threw 105 in 6 innings gave up 4 runs on 9 hits.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ouch,

Hope he gets the same treatment at Wrigley. ;)

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

He does it every pitch.....

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Do you have video on that?

Because I suspect it—but can’t prove it. And no one seems to be watching it. I find it hugely ridiculous considering he considers that a secret of his motion…I really am annoyed by this.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have a video....

however, that game he pitched, the video of him having the ball while a good foot in front of the rubber (stopped at that point) is how I found out about it. Anyone know how to get it?

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I saw the exact same thing.

It was disturbing, but I don’t know how to capture video.

Dude is not legit on that pitch. They should be called balls, and I want it recognized before the Giants come to town.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with this.

It shows in the photos AND I noticed it during last week’s game at SF.

I wonder how many OTHER pitchers do this.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's a great question, re: other pitchers

I have no idea.

I’ve never seen it so clearly as our last game against Tim though. And I’m really disturbed by it. How do we make it an issue before the game, so that the umps are watching for it?

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou has to bring it up...

it might not do anything but disrupt Tim enough to lose it in the 1st, which is why I would (if I were Lou) make a deal out of it…..

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

does lou read this?

Because that would be awesome.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dunno....don't even know how to send a message to the Cubs.....

Al should be able to, I would think, being a TV guy…..

The poem fails when it strays too far from the song, and the song fails when it strays too far from the dance ~ Ezra Pound

by crazymountain on Jul 9, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is that possible, Al?

I mean, I don’t want to abuse blog commenter privileges at all, but this seems ridiculous. If someone can back up our suspicions on tape, can it be mentioned somewhere important so that it gets paid attention to?

A couple of walks because Timmy can’t pitch off the rubber would be devastating in the first.

These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance"

by slcathena on Jul 9, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Haha, I'm picturing a crawl running across WLS's programming all day long....

MESSAGE FOR LOU PINIELLA …. TIM LINCECUM IS A CHEAT …. WATCH HIS FOOT LEAVE THE RUBBER …. USE THIS INFORMATION TO YOUR ADVANTAGE …. END TRANSMISSION

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 9, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO

But hey, maybe Bruce Miles would pass this along.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

They write about it in the SI article on him

I wondered about that when I read it, it says his back foot is a foot in front of the rubber when he releases the ball. I thought that was illegal.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this -Oysterband

by Ross on Jul 9, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I predict Andres Torres gets added to the 40-man

and called up if the Cubs decide to send down a pitcher. Lou’s done with the Micah in the OF scenario; we’ve got an extra 40-man spot now; Lou was talking about needing RH bats w/ Sori out.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 10:34 AM CDT reply actions  

anyone going to the first game of the icubs double header tonight?

we should have idea because they obviously won’t be there….i’m going to watch jeff samardzija pitch the second game tonight

by cubswynn on Jul 9, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Enjoy, enjoy!

Great park in a great town. Yeah Des Moines!

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on Jul 9, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good point

There is also Jason Dubois. This is exactly the situation where you want to use these guys. Ashort emergnecy fill-in for a week or so.

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't that be a trip -

to see Dubois back in LF again. I’m sure he’d love a shot against a Baker team.

by DGU on Jul 9, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Would they really add Jason Dubois to the 40 man though?

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure

If they have a spot, why not? Either Dubois or Torres could be added. I believe Chad Fox is still on the list. He likely won’t see Wrigley again.

This would probably only be for the rest of the year. These guys will likely move on again next year to some other organization.

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Canadian Connection...

Hey Al, nice canuck comment!

Oddly, I’ve met both Demp and Rich. I inteviewed them in front of a large group of little league players. Both are great guys. I’m thinking there’s a certain symbiosis to having both of them on our beloved Cubbies this year. Is it a sign? Let’s hope.

Loved Dempsters “putting hockey nets in the clubhouse” comment, even though it furthers the Canadian stereotype.

I'm not a religious man, but I pray for Carlos Marmol's arm...and psyche.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Forgot to mention

Rich is from my home town. Hope he stays healthy! Actually, as long as he’s healthy in October, when they’ll need 5 or 6 starts out of him.

I'm not a religious man, but I pray for Carlos Marmol's arm...and psyche.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dempster made some other funny comments...

... on the postgame show last night, about having a fellow Canadian on the team.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hear Terry Puhl is still alive...

maybe he’s next!

I'm not a religious man, but I pray for Carlos Marmol's arm...and psyche.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

He told Waddle & Silvy

this morning that him and Harden we’re gonna start their own Fantasy Hockey League.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Jul 9, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

were*

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Jul 9, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

My thoughts on Harden

I saw Harden’s debut against the Angels on July 26, 2003 and thought to myself, my opinion of this pitcher is hardening… when he’s working, he’s brilliant. The problem is, he’s not working most of the time. Harden hasn’t thrown over 150 innings since 2004. With the 2008 A’s he’s averaging 5.9 innings/start, so typically he’s going six. The Cubs have 60 games remaining, meaning 18 starts or so for each starting pitcher. Doing the math, if he were to get all of his starts, that’s 108 innings over the course of the remainder of the season, plus the 77 he’s gotten so far. That’s a grand total of 185 innings, more than he has ever pitched at the major league level in his career. I just don’t think it’s likely that he’ll pull that off. Moreover, even in his outlier year of 2004, he failed to pitch in 18 starts in the second half (he only got to 16).

That won’t be the only issue with Harden. Besides the obvious introduction of a hole in the rotation once he inevitably goes down, if management decides to baby him and put him on a short pitch count or innings count (i.e. five innings and done) to get him through the season, that taxes the bullpen that much more. From that standpoint, it was shrewd to get Chad Gaudin, a useful and at times dominant reliever. But from what I’ve seen of the Cubs bullpen, he will slot in back of Wood/Marmol/Cotts and ahead of Ascanio.

What kind of injuries has Harden had? Reviewing his backlog at Rotoworld, it turned out to be a longer list than what I remembered, which was to his obliques (I was probably confusing him with Mark Mulder); in fact, it’s principally been his shoulder and back that’s the problem. He also had elbow soreness from improperly throwing his changeup, and shoulder surgery on his left (non-throwing) shoulder, which kept slipping out of place and was thought to be causing problems with his delivery.

And yet, all that said, Harden is not the next Mark Prior, though there are some superficial similarities. Harden’s mechanics, from what I can tell, are substantially better than Prior’s. This was something the A’s were certainly aware of as of the 2003 draft, anyway (two years after Harden was selected, but the same people were in place for the 2001 draft), something that came out in the recent Sports Illustrated article on Tim Lincecum. Unlike Prior, Harden actually has pitched effectively in more than one year.

It seems to me that the Cubs should treat Harden like a fifth starter, finding ways to work around his presence in the rotation, if they want to keep him healthy. That will be a challenge in Wrigley’s pitcher-hostile confines, but I do think it’s possible.

Witty .sig goes here.

by scareduck on Jul 9, 2008 11:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Oops

The Cubs have 72 games remaining, for 14 starts per starter (about). Harden might be able to pull that off (84 IP down the stretch).

Witty .sig goes here.

by scareduck on Jul 9, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't Hendry say that

Harden’s never had any surgery?

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Jul 9, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone doesn't think...

...that the key to this deal is Harden’s health. But we have a back up plan, which is something that had to be done in order for it to work.

Best case scenario: Harden stays healthy and we dominate the home stretch with that staff.
Worst case scenario: Harden gets hurt, we sub Marshall or Guadin and we’re still the best team in the NL, with a still pretty good staff and the best overall lineup.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Jul 9, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano and Harden are the guys you want starting playoff games

That is a 1-2 punch that matches up with anybody in a short series. And you’ve got Dempster as the 3 in a playoff rotation, with lefty Lilly ready to insert anywhere when you need a 4 starter. Lilly becomes a great “match-up” starter in the playoffs. Overall that’s a nice set of pitching options for Lou Piniella to have. Back that up with an improved bullpen? I like it. I like it an awful lot.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

that is NOT

the description of a dominant ace.

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rob Neyer quotes Al

Al—Neyer lists your reaction to the Harden trade in his column today.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Congrats Al... Very cool.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can you quote what he says?

I’m too broke, and unwilling, to be an “insider.”

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rob blogged

Bleed Cubbie Blue’s Al Yellon says, “Good job, Jim Hendry. And stay healthy, Rich Harden.”

No big revelations there but it’s nice to see Al and BCB get some national pub.

by Kornchex on Jul 9, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just click the link above.

Al’s part is in the intro part which is free.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here you go...
Wednesday Wangdoodles

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry

• Regarding the Harden trade … Blogger 27 Outs says the Cubs traded the A’s pennies on the dollar for Harden. A’s Nation is disappointed that the A’s didn’t get an impact bat (which seems to be their A-No. 1 need). Catfish Stew’s Ken Arneson says this one really hurts, as the A’s traded two flawed players for four flawed players. Bleed Cubbie Blue’s Al Yellon says, “Good job, Jim Hendry. And stay healthy, Rich Harden.”

by JB 23 on Jul 9, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

i woke up

with the biggest smile Ive had in quite sometime this am.

Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jul 9, 2008 11:36 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm just going to assume it was a result of

a good Cubs W and nice trade by JH, and nothing more.

Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.

by Jayo525 on Jul 9, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Woke up with a Harden did ya?

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

this

even trumps the “nothing more” at least for awhile. I, like everyone else went to bed as a lil boy with a broken heart year after year. Cubby swagger is what i got. Ive watched these trades go down all my life. Now the brewers make a big one and their was so much happiness over there. only to be trumped by us. owners,mgmnt,players, fans are on the same page for the 1st time ever. I’m counting down time already to tonights game—cant wait. Theirs not a team in the world that wants to face us right now.

Dear SBnation, We need our own server here at BCB seeing how its became very slow due to enormous amounts of traffic. P.S. Impeach Bud Selig!!!

by cubsluver22 on Jul 9, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

The first of many puns to come.

Oops.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Jul 9, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bwaahhaaahhahahah!!

"Red Sox Nation: In your opinion, who’s the best player not in the HOF?
Bill James: Ron Santo" October 2004.

by cubfever7 on Jul 9, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Looking forward to the box score

Where Harden pitches 8 and then turns it over to Wood for the save…

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harden and Wood don't dick around.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

TW...

nah…too easy..:)

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harden and Wood on the same staff(s)?

"Red Sox Nation: In your opinion, who’s the best player not in the HOF?
Bill James: Ron Santo" October 2004.

by cubfever7 on Jul 9, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Think Jocketty would trade us Dick Pole for Marquis?

"Red Sox Nation: In your opinion, who’s the best player not in the HOF?
Bill James: Ron Santo" October 2004.

by cubfever7 on Jul 9, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

TWHS

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

A little OT but

How the hell did Joel Freakin’ Pineiro go into Philly and shut them out?

by Mapmaker on Jul 9, 2008 12:02 PM CDT reply actions  

From BBTF

Rich Harden, projected rest of 2008

—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—
—-—-—-—-W L G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA
-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—--
Year-to-Date 5 1 13 13 77 57 20 5 31 92 2.34
Rest-of-Yr? 4 1 8 8 51 34 12 3 19 68 2.12
-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-——-
Total 9 2 21 21 128 91 32 8 50 160 2.25

Only 8 games started for the rest of 2008? If he makes every one of his starts for him on in, he’ll make about 13 starts. That doesn’t add up.

2.12 ERA though; hot freakin’ damn

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 12:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Projections of playing time are based upon past playing time...

...and Harden hasn’t played that much in the past several seasons.

by cwyers on Jul 9, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

That makes sense

I wish they projected k/9, that would’ve been cool to see.

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

k/9

k/9 = strikeouts per 9 innings pitched, correct? if so, they did project it:

68 Ks in 51 IPs = 1 1/3 Ks per inning = 12 k/9

Before Edmonds: 24-16, (.600); With Edmonds: 30-20 (.600)
Edmonds with Cubs: .276 / .375 / .552

by joeschmitt on Jul 9, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jesus Christ I'm lazy

I like stats spoon-fed to me

"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk

by NittanyCub on Jul 9, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm so happy I could shit rainbows!

Love this quote I read somewhere this morning…..”The Brewers went out and got themselves a Carlos Zambrano, so the Cubs countered by adding a Ben Sheets.”

Also, a friend of mine in Tampa called me and says we’ll love Gaudin, and that his slider is every bit as good, if not better than Marmol’s. Can’t wait to see both him and Harden pitch.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 12:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Bump was here...

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 9, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO

Must have been really backed up to drop that load!

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Note to self:

do not, repeat, DO NOT taste that rainbow.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Has a game recap ever needed an overflow thread before?

Also, anyone see the match-up in Milwaukee tonight? Glendon Rusch vs. Ben Sheets.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 12:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Wow....that's almost as good as last night's match-up.

Well, I felt before that series started that I’d be happy if the Rockies split the 4 games….

by Shanghai Badger on Jul 9, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Glendon Rusch is still alive????

Think of how stupid the average person is, and remember, half of them are stupider than that!

by DaBard on Jul 9, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know that's a common expression

in situations like this, but you do realize he had a life threatening condition that shut down his career for awhile? Can’t rememeber the exact diagnosis, but I remember it was like, “I can still pitch, but if I do, I might die”. Then a year or two later he got the all clear.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not funny.

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 9, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comments From A's "Experts" like us

Harden….Dominate Stuff ….High pitch counts ,,,early exits … sitting on the bench with 100 pitches after 5 Gaudin…. the sleeper…..Solid # 4 Good Fastball decent change
good slider….. where can you find a guy who can start, swingman, or pen ?

by nimblenikelfoos on Jul 9, 2008 1:02 PM CDT reply actions  

There has been a glitch in the matrix.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 9, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

We signed Rich Harden.

Mike is so overjoyed he posts twice now.

Relax, it’ll subside when Soriano comes back.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just wondering....

Why people aren’t more concerned with the fact that Harden’s velocity has been down his last couple of starts. Waddle and Silvy interviewed him on ESPN 1000 this morning and he said the reason for the drop was because his arm was a little “tired” after having about 9 starts or so in a row.

I actually like the trade a lot along with the bonus arm the Cubs got, but I have a pretty bad feeling he’ll be hitting the DL at some point. I was thinking Billy Beane may have noticed this too and decided to deal him before he possibly had another DL stint and lost all value (which sort of explains why the A’s took some seemingly low-caliber players based on what most people expected a Harden trade would require).

I hope it works out though…

by miscellaneousness on Jul 9, 2008 1:18 PM CDT reply actions  

OT:Michael Barrett

Anyone else see that he broke his nose fouling off a pitch?

"I see myself as an intelligent, sensitive human, with the soul of a clown which forces me to blow it at the most important moments."
-- Jim Morrison

by Georgey on Jul 9, 2008 1:18 PM CDT reply actions  

didn't he take a foul

to the junk recently too?

See what being traded does to a guy?

"We expect to win. We go out to win. So we're just living up to our own expectations." Derrek Lee, 5/29/08

by drewishdrewid on Jul 9, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's the urine-colored unis.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't remember

reading anything about his junk lately. :-D

by sue369 on Jul 9, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah he was on the Cubs

when he took one off the cup.

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now, if it was Soto you would have remembered...:)

j/k j/k…

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wasn't that one of the Molinas?

That was sickening…

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere

but I was looking for info on our new ace and saw that a month ago, on June 8th, he struck out the side in the first inning on nine pitches, becoming only the 38th player to do so dating back to 1889 (several have done it twice, and another, Felix Hernandez, has done it since). Pretty damn impressive.

Here’s the list, courtesy of Wikigodia.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:26 PM CDT reply actions  

I did hear

this mentioned on Sport NIte last night. Hope he can do that again.

by sue369 on Jul 9, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harden

Living in N. Cal I go to a lot of Oakland games. I have watched Harden pitch and he is very good – when he is healthy. His last two starts were not that impressive but he is 5-1 with a 2.34 ERA. I know that many of the A’s players are sorry to see Harden leave the A’s. Ellis, who plays 2d, says that Harden is the best pitcher he has seen since being with the A’s. I think the Cubs made a great deal – again if Harden stays healthy.

On the other hand, I still do not understand BillyBall/Billy Beane and what he has done to the A’s. Mulder, Hudson, Haren, Swisher, Zito (no loss), Kotsay – even Tejada have been sent packing. I know Beane is supposed to be a genius but I know the A’s fans are scratching their heads over the Harden trade.

wccubfan

by wccubfan on Jul 9, 2008 1:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Don't forget Giambi

They must have one hell of a farm system

by Mapmaker on Jul 9, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where did Beane get the reputation as a great trader anyway

Most of his best players were from the draft. Where is the long list of great trades that should make everyone afraid to deal with him?

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Watch

This trade will turn out to be a great trade for Beane. Murton will hit .300 for him OBP of close to .400. Patterson will be a solid 2nd baseman. Gallagher will turn into a 2 or a 3 and who knows about Donaldson. The guy is a baseball genius and knows what he is doing. All the media keeps saying how all we traded in Gallagher is a 4 or bad 3 but he is 22 years old and has much more potential then that.

by cubs on Jul 9, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is too funny to even respond

I’ll guarantee that Murton and Patterson and Gallagher are not all going to be solid players. See the Tim Hudson trade, the genius batted .333 and got a middle reliever.

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

And then Murton and Patterson team up to destroy the Death Star.

Cos what you’ve written, aside from the possibilities about Gallagher, is pure science fiction.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Amen brother

I’m about as choked up about losing Matt Murton as I was Rob Bowen. Eric Patterson has the family genes, can’t tell time and doesn’t have a position on the field. So I won’t lie awake about him coming back to haunt either.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um, he's related to Corey Patterson

How good can he possibly be? :)

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on Jul 9, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think their dad was captain of the Georgia Tech football team...

and played in the NFL for awhile…

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please do

and Josh Papelbon too.

Or Christian and Josh Vitters. ;-)

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mulder

for Haren, Barton and Calero looks pretty good right now. Jury is still out on what he got for Haren.

Justin Duchscherer for Luis Vizcaino looks like armed robbery.

There are other good ones. There are some bad ones too. He didn’t get enough for Hudson.

Thing is, most of Beane’s trades are where he gets serviceable but unexciting players for things he can’t afford anymore. Kind of like Harden and Gaudin for Gallagher, Patterson, Murton and Donaldson.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep, you hit the nail on the head...

“Thing is, most of Beane’s trades are where he gets serviceable but unexciting players for things he can’t afford anymore. Kind of like Harden and Gaudin for Gallagher, Patterson, Murton and Donaldson.”

Billy Beane said last winter that he was, once again, in full rebuilding mode in anticipation of the new stadium deal in Fremont. With the A’s suprisingly right in the thick of the AL West race people discounted his previous insistence. But they proved wrong. One thing is for sure, when Beane says he is going to do something a certain way then you can rest assured that is what will happen.

Sean Gallagher is a good young pitcher. You’re right in that he buys a couple extra years on the arbitration clock versus Rich Harden. And he should fit nicely with a rotation of Dana Eveland, Greg Smith and Jim Dursherwhatever.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

"God dammit,

I don’t care how good we are, we’re rebuilding! End of story!”

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Duchscherer looks awsome...

Saw some of his game last night. Totally dominating.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

"IF"

Lots of things hinge on that word. “If” Harden can remain healthy this team’s future looks awesome. “If” he doesn’t stay healthy it changes how we move forward. Considering his DL stints in the past I fear there will be one coming up soon. I would love for him to remain healthy but I can’t fully enjoy this trade until I see “if” things work out like I would like them too. I do appreciate that Hendry is working hard to make this team better.

by sue369 on Jul 9, 2008 1:34 PM CDT reply actions  

If "if's" were horses we'd all be eating steak.

So much can go wrong throughtout the course of a season, a career, hell, a human body performing unnatural pitching motions. I’ll take Harden one start at a time and hope for the best. Plus, similar to the Edmonds deal, though not nearly as severe, the potential upside FAAAAAAR outweighs the downside. And, we got Gaudin as well.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell,

maybe all Harden needs to stay healthy is some Windy City air and pinstripes.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

You may be right.

Never underestimate the midwest air…it’s good for what ails ya.

by sue369 on Jul 9, 2008 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

Everything good in life comes with risks. It may be the case that Rich Harden has a spell or two on the DL each season. The good news is that he has never had surgery and when he is healthy he is dominant.

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jim Callis of Baseball America
I don’t think the Cubs gave up much. Gallagher can be a solid mid-rotation guy, but Murton and Patterson aren’t regulars on good teams and Donaldson is having a rough year in low Class A. . . . It amuses me that there’s a lot of analysis on the blogosphere saying that the A’s must know Harden is about to get hurt again, or else Billy Beane wouldn’t have made the trade. Beane is a tremendous GM, but I swear, if Kenny Williams made a similar deal, he’d be getting killed for it.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 1:36 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree

Beane is not a god. I posted the Hudson trade earlier. He got Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer and Charles Thomas. He wound up with a middle reliever for Hudson. Wow what a great trade.

I know you are higher on Patterson than I am but Gallagher is the only one I’m regret losing. I will be very interested to see how Murton does as he does have his fans here but I’m not one of them.

by rlpete on Jul 9, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

but as I said, he was 1 for 2 on that front, as he ripped the Cardinals off with Haren, Barton and Calero for Mulder.

Billy Beane is a very good GM. He is not perfect. He makes mistakes.

Later, Callis said that Oakland should have insisted upon Jose Ceda instead of Josh Donaldson, and that the Cubs probably would have bitten anyway. Makes sense to me.

Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?

by Josh Timmers on Jul 9, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Rich Harden Fever, Catch It !!!!!!!!!!

by MDBNIU on Jul 9, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chad Gaudin

Wow. I didn’t even know about this guy. He threw 200 innings last year and had 154Ks? Not bad. And he’s a bullpen guy for us, eh? Sweeeeet.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on Jul 9, 2008 1:38 PM CDT reply actions  

ESPN thinks the NL Central is worth watching now:
With the additions of Rich Harden and CC Sabathia, the NL Central is now a division that’ll offer daily entertainment.

Thanks, guys. Sorry the division was so TERRIBLE before this week…

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 9, 2008 2:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Just imagine

if the Cubs and Brewers traded for Red Sox or Yankees pitchers.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep,

since the Yankees are doing oh so well this year.

"I see myself as an intelligent, sensitive human, with the soul of a clown which forces me to blow it at the most important moments."
-- Jim Morrison

by Georgey on Jul 9, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Take that back,

didn’t realize they were doing good

"I see myself as an intelligent, sensitive human, with the soul of a clown which forces me to blow it at the most important moments."
-- Jim Morrison

by Georgey on Jul 9, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

could you imagine?

one headache for another…yikes.

But Farnsy does tackle well!

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Jul 9, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harden's health

Hopefully the guy will be healthy the rest of the season, and into October. However, with the Cubs depth of pitching, especially with Gaudin in the deal, it wouldn’t kill the Cubs if RIch took a little “vacation” for 3 or 4 weeks in August, as long as he’s back for the postseason. That’s when his impact will be felt. I hate to bring up painful memories of ‘03, but one of the main reasons Becket was so dominant was that his arm was fresh after a long mid-season break.

Just sayin’.

I'm not a religious man, but I pray for Carlos Marmol's arm...and psyche.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jul 9, 2008 2:25 PM CDT reply actions  

ESPN BREAKING NEWS

Brett Favre has a stomach ache: sends text message to Packers GM and wife.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on Jul 9, 2008 2:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Breaking News

Jason Giambi dyes his “stache”

"I see myself as an intelligent, sensitive human, with the soul of a clown which forces me to blow it at the most important moments."
-- Jim Morrison

by Georgey on Jul 9, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

BREAKING NEWS: Favre has stomachache, spends approximately 2 hours on the toilet with severe runny discharge

Source: Text message sent to ESPN’s Rachel Nichols that read: “AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 9, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

BREAKING NEWS:

...oh, wait, we fixed it. Nevermind.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heh...

“WHO…DOES…NUMBAH…TWO…WORK…FOR!?”

“That’s right buddy! Show that turd who’s boss!”

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 9, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Allow myself

to introduce…myself.”

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Jul 9, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm thinking Hendry is still working on a corresponding roster move....

Both Harden and Gaudin still do not appear on the 25-man active roster, and when you click on Harden’s name on the 40-man, the following status appears:

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Jul 9, 2008 2:38 PM CDT reply actions  

AL losing starting pitching talent to NL

I’m well aware of the AL’s dominance in interleague play and All-Star games, but it seems there is a recent trend of top-tier AL pitchers moving to the NL. This certainly isn’t unprecedented as most GM’s would prefer not to face their former ace.

But, that being said, Haren, Harden, CC, I’m well aware of the AL’s dominance in interleague play and All-Star games, but it seems there is a recent trend of top-tier AL pitchers moving to the NL. This certainly isn’t unprecedented as most GM’s would prefer not to face their former ace.

But, that being said, Haren, Harden, CC, J Santana and Volquez (among others) are all top-20 starters and the currently struggling Bedard main soon join in the exodus to the NL. In most cases their getting similar value or potential in return (Hamilton, Gomez, Gallagher etc.) but it’s a surprisingly talented list to make the move in a short span of time, IMO.

I’m just glad the Cubs are part of it and I expect the risk to be worth the reward. Being a Cub fan I prefer to look forward than backwards, but even though the run differential statistic is, by definition, historical I’m encouraged by the massive difference between us and the Brewers and Cards.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

by wrigley's ivy on Jul 9, 2008 2:48 PM CDT reply actions  

sorry i had a problem posting. it was my first one and i think i got impatient with my slow connection...

i think you can see what i meant so say though…

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

by wrigley's ivy on Jul 9, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm glad they got EPatt

He wouldn’t sign my ball last weekend.

"I see myself as an intelligent, sensitive human, with the soul of a clown which forces me to blow it at the most important moments."
-- Jim Morrison

by Georgey on Jul 9, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ewww.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jul 9, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

My little brother likes him,

so i was trying to get his autograph,

but I only got Jason Dubois and Randy Wells, needless to say I had an upset brother.

"I see myself as an intelligent, sensitive human, with the soul of a clown which forces me to blow it at the most important moments."
-- Jim Morrison

by Georgey on Jul 9, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't think

that’s why he was “Ewwwing”

"I love when they play that Go Cubs Win song."

by BMoney79 on Jul 9, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, on your ball

The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel

by Blue W on Jul 9, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

What do kids know?

I remember being stoked about getting Turk Wendell’s autograph.

I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling, so why don't we just ignore each other til we go away.

by neverAcquiesce on Jul 9, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey now...

I thought it was cool how he worked his #13 into his signature!

Have you heard that he now runs a ranch out west?

by Shawon O Meter on Jul 9, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

TWHS?

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Jul 9, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is it coincidence that Murton was traded on the anniversary of his debut?

He debuted on July 8, 2005.

Since yesterday was his 3-year anniversary date, does he now require Optional Assignment Waivers to be sent to the minors?

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Jul 9, 2008 2:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Chew on this for a while...

Chad Gaudin is only the 9th player in Cubs history to wear #57, yet only the 8th player to wear #57 with only ten fingers.

by Great Odin's Raven on Jul 9, 2008 3:08 PM CDT reply actions  

FYI

The pregame thread is going to post at 3:30 pm CDT… not a moment too soon, I can see.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Jul 9, 2008 3:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Hooray!

''Listen, losing Soriano is no box of chocolates.'' ~Lou Piniella

by JohnM on Jul 9, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

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