Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Around SBN: Check out our NFL Scoreboard: scores, schedule and blogs Bar-right-arrows

Tuesday Morning Miscellaneous

Yelloncard_tiny by Al on in News

A few headlines to fill your day till tonight's game:

  • Barry Rozner on Rich Harden:

    ... keeping him on the field has been something of a mystery, and so far the Cubs have solved it with a mixture of extra rest and short pitch counts.

    If that continues, if Harden can stay on the mound and throw the way he's capable, it's simply hard to imagine this Cubs team falling short of the World Series.

  • Are lineup changes coming? Will Kosuke Fukudome be benched? And why is Fukudome struggling? Here are some of the possible reasons:

    "Japanese players train notoriously hard, but this is a longer season than he's used to," said ESPN analyst Orestes Destrade, a former major-league first baseman who played five seasons for Japan's Seibu Lions. "There is more travel in the major leagues, and farther travel. It's more grueling than in Japan, where the cities are closer together and you take [high-speed trains] between cities. Your body wears down.

    "Throw in the fact that there's been a lot of attention and hype surrounding him all season long, and you can see how he might break down. As stoic as Japanese players are, it still affects you. He's going through a funk, and a couple days off might help."

    This could also explain something we've been discussing here over the last few days -- why Japanese players seem to improve after their first full season in the USA. Maybe it takes that long to adjust.
  • Gordon Edes at Yahoo profiles Jeff Samardzija.
  • Ryan Theriot answers questions.
  • Cubs in power rankings: ESPN #1, but Phil Rogers #2. Must be those negative numbers Rogers had for the Cubs this past off-season.
  • Non-Cub news of interest: Tampa Bay's Evan Longoria suffered a broken wrist after being hit by a pitch last Thursday, and may miss a month. So ... what do the Rays do to replace his bat? Sign Kenny Lofton or even Barry Bonds? Or, possibly trade for Tampa-area native Gary Sheffield? Stay tuned. The Rays set a franchise record on Sunday with their 71st win, breaking the mark set in 2004 when Lou Piniella was their manager.

That ought to keep you all busy till game time. Have at it.

0 recs | Comment 167 comments

Read Related

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

First

:) – First time too.

by Archie on Aug 12, 2008 8:38 AM CDT   0 recs

dam so close

Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic. Crash Davis

by Reed's Johnson on Aug 12, 2008 8:39 AM CDT   0 recs

I guess the rest of us are last

I've been bleeding double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers

by parrotinct on Aug 12, 2008 8:42 AM CDT   0 recs

Don't worry

The first shall be last and the last shall be first, remember? :)

by Archie on Aug 12, 2008 9:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ricky that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard....

You could be second, or third, hell even 4th.

Ricky i was probably high when i said that.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Aug 12, 2008 11:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good Reading Material

Thanks. My 2 cents. Give Dome a couple days of rest but bring him back. Don’t baby Harden too much.

"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."

by Cubster on Aug 12, 2008 8:48 AM CDT   0 recs

The Dunn post is about to go off the board so...

I’ll post this question here:

Why didn’t the Dodgers put a claim in Dunn to block Arizona?

Worst case scenario is the Reds “dump” Dunn on them and they eat his salary without playing him much. After the season they get two first round draft picks… not a bad investment at all.

Obviously, I don’t have any clue why anyone would think the Reds would just dump Dunn and lose the draft picks themselves, so the Dodgers really were under no risk.

It just seems like an awful non-move by the Dodgers. If it was Hendry I would certainly be upset. That organization seems to be awfully managed at the moment.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 8:54 AM CDT   0 recs

You have to be careful when blocking a player on

waivers. If the team waiving the player is intent on dumping the guy, you could get stuck with a player you really don’t want.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 12, 2008 9:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right.

After getting Manny, the Dodgers have a VERY crowded outfield. Juan Pierre is already grumbling about his (justified) reduced playing time. I suppose the Dodgers could have played Dunn at 1B, but maybe they didn’t think of that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 9:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Put a claim to block, nothing more

The Reds were simply not going to send Dunn to the Dodgers for nothing. That’s (pretty much) a fact. Even if they did, which again is extremely improbable, the Dodgers get the two draft picks and block their biggest contender for the post season. And can use Dunn to pinch hit or whatever. Frankly, I don’t understand it.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 9:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're forgetting about the "Gentlemens Agreement" in baseball. Teams don't

like to claim players unless they really want them.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 12, 2008 9:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Huh?

Claims are put in all the time to block players.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 9:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Really?

Give at least three examples within the last five years.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 9:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Twilight Zone?

I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone. Or maybe I don’t understand baseball very much.

The information about who claims who isn’t usually divulged. Most of the times the only thing that is said in public is that the player “didn’t clear waivers”.

Since most players don’t clear waivers you can pretty much assume that most of them are just being blocked.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 9:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Some of that information is just rumors. The idea

of blocking waiver claims is much more speculation than it is fact. When you are talking about million dollar contracts, you better be sure in what youu’re doing. A GM could lose his job by making a mistake like that.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 12, 2008 9:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Didn't the Sox just block Giles from the Rays?

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Aug 12, 2008 9:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Giles

vetoed a trade to the Sox…They actually wanted him.

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 12, 2008 9:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I understand, but thought the move was made to block the Rays from getting him.

would they have started him in RF over JD Drew?

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Aug 12, 2008 9:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Most probable case

If they were blocking the Rays, but if the Padres would just give them Giles for nothing, or very little, they would take him. I didn’t hear that Boston was interested in Giles before the trade deadline, if you know what I mean…

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 9:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Either corner outfield spot...

...Papi/Youk have been banged up, so they have been getting routine days off…Add to that, Jacoby Ellsbury has not been very good lately. They sometimes (like this weekend against the White Sox) move Bay or Drew to DH. I can see how blocking the Rays could have been a factor, but from everything I heard and the way their lineups have been set the past week or so, I think their foremost intention was actually to acquire him.

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 12, 2008 9:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with you. Obviously they wanted him but I do

think stopping him from getting to the Rays was a factor.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Aug 12, 2008 10:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Possibly. They tried to work out a deal, though.

Not sure if the intent was to block or to deal.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2008 9:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The biggest deal about waivers is there is

no formal announcement made until a deal is made. Any information you hear about blocks is either leaked or made up.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 12, 2008 9:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In Giles case a deal was in order...

He just vetoed it.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Aug 12, 2008 9:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That Gentlemen's Agreement applies only to teams who aren't in the hunt.

Basically, a team like KC will not claim a player unless they are genuinely interested in them. Even then, sometimes a team in the hunt who wants the same guy will notify KC that they are interested. Sometimes, they will also give “future considerations” to KC for passing on the guy. In that case, KC would pass.

As for the Snakes and the Dodgers, “all’s fair in love and war”.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Aug 12, 2008 6:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Right...

Could you imagine Dunn AND Manny in the outfield! That would be an adventure…

"Remember each day this year, where you were, what you were doing, who you were with, how you felt as the Cubs win their way through it. Because if this does turn out to be the promised land we have all been waiting for, you will want to remember, savor, cherish every moment..."

by CubsBullsBears on Aug 12, 2008 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know, but

How reasonable was to believe the Reds would just dump Dunn and lose two first round picks? That just isn’t at all probable. And if hell freezes over and the Reds dump dun then the Dodgers would still get draft picks so it wouldn’t have been a bad move even if that happened.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 9:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't forget you have to offer arbitration to get the picks

They are free just for losing a player. What if the Dodgers offered arbitration and Dunn accepted?

by rlpete on Aug 12, 2008 9:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Again

What are the chances that the league leader in HR is going to go for a 1 year arbitration deal?

IMO, anyway, zero.

Life is about taking chances, and this is as safe a chance as you could ever hope for. If it was Hendry, I would be upset.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 9:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think it was that "safe" a chance.

And why should Hendry be “upset”? This does NOT guarantee Arizona a playoff spot.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 9:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry

I was meaning if this happened in our division, and Hendry didn’t put a claim to block our competitor, I would be upset.

On the “safeness”, I guess I’m in disagreement.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 9:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The thing you have to worry about when

blocking a claim is that it works both ways. GM’s are like elephants, they have long memories. If a GM really needs to dump a player and a deal has been worked out, a block would cause some big problems. Remember these guys have to deal with each other all of the time. There are a lot of backroom deals that happen that we are not privy to.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 12, 2008 9:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I understand what you're saying

It makes sense. Perhaps blocking is not rampant. But I think blocking is very much a part of the game at this time of year.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 10:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it is talked

about a lot more than it really happens. I think most GM’s know what deals are going through and which ones aren’t. I think us fans make more of a big deal about this than do baseball people.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 12, 2008 10:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, I guess we are.

I don’t see this as that big a deal, frankly.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 9:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I still think you're making WAY too big a deal out of this.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 10:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

May be.

But I’m certainly not the only one: http://www.truebluela.com/2008/8/11/591467/those-damn-diamondbacks

Obviously, it’s not a big concern for me, being a Cubs fan. Unless we face the Diamondback in the playoffs and Dunn kill us, then it doesn’t matter for us. But for the Dodgers, fighting for the playoff lives, I think it’s very important.

by Luis on Aug 12, 2008 10:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That post is wrong.

Dunn didn’t clear waivers. Arizona claimed him. Now, wasn’t there a time after 7/31 when LA was in first place? If there was, then the D’backs would have been in position to claim him BEFORE the Dodgers could.

He also asks:

Additional question: is there any reason why every team wouldn’t put a claim on a type A free agent?

Yeah, because you might get stuck with $100 million of contracts you don’t want and disrupt your team. Sorry to say, because the poster is a fellow SBN blogger, but he doesn’t really seem to understand how teams are put together and how deals are made.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 10:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

People sometimes think GM’s are playing with monopoly money. These guys jobs are on the line, they aren’t going to do anything silly. At least not for long.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 12, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Except the astro's

who seem to think they should be buyers instead of sellers at the trading deadline.

"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"

by MerlinDog on Aug 12, 2008 12:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Delusional at best. I have no idea what color

the sky is in their world.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 12, 2008 12:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Random Responses to morning miscellaneous

Evan Longoria is a hell of a ballplayer. Hopefully the Rays can keep things going without him. I don’t see them signing Bonds or Sheffield. I think both of those guys would mess with the locker room vibe (if you believe in that sort of thing)

I know they have been trying to rest Fukudome more, but possibly they need to take it even further. It’s a longer season here. Plus I believe he is playing a lot more games in the heat of the summer than he would in Japan(cooler weather and more domes). 

Jeff Samardzija. Beyond being the best WR in Chicago right now, he is also going to be one heck of an asset down the stretch. The kid doesn't seem to get rattled.

---AC 00 00 00 - Believe

by mjk83 on Aug 12, 2008 9:01 AM CDT   0 recs

whoa. Not sure what the dealio is with the quote box. full Shark talk below

Beyond being the best WR in Chicago right now, he is also going to be one heck of an asset down the stretch. The kid doesn’t seem to get rattled.

---AC 00 00 00 - Believe

by mjk83 on Aug 12, 2008 9:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fukudome: A Concern

I heard yesterday on ESPN radio (from one of the baseball beat reporters), that Fukudome said that Gerald Perry didn’t know his swing well enough to help him out of his slump.

Does that concern anyone else? Isn’t that his job? If he can’t help him who will?

I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com

by digitalbenjamin on Aug 12, 2008 9:04 AM CDT   0 recs

If anyone can......

O’connor can!

Go ahead, Z me.

by tony412 on Aug 12, 2008 9:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Do we have an attitude problem?

I know we don’t always get direct qoutes from Fukudome due to translation and all, but if he did say this about Gerald Perry, along with his comments about (paraphrase) “Lou can bench me, it is not like that is going to help my slump” comments, starting to sound like an unhappy guy to me. Plus he looks unhappy, some say stoic, I say uninspired.

by graceunderpressure on Aug 12, 2008 9:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He could just be lonely... depressed.

I mean…. outside of his translators, he doesn’t really have anyone to hang out with who speaks his language. And Soriano doesn’t count, because it’s likely that Soriano’s Japanese is limited.

Would be great to have another Japanese player on this team… on the bench… or in the pen…

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Aug 12, 2008 11:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

but shingo

didn’t make the roster

by tim815 on Aug 12, 2008 3:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I've had the same thought...

....I just keep hoping that’s not the case.

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Aug 12, 2008 11:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

For guys who have a lot of moving parts in their swings, that is often true.

When DeRo was with the Braves, he and Terry Pendleton never meshed. DeRo ended up using Chipper Jones as his hitting coach, and Chipper helped him get out of a major meltdown. He continues to use Rudy Jaramillo (with whom he meshed exceedingly well) and Chipper (by e-mail and video) even though he is with the Cubs now.

OTOH, Chipper uses his father, a former college coach, as his hitting coach. Whenever he is in a slump, Chipper flies his Dad to wherever he is.

If Dome has a trusted coach in Japan who understands his swing, perhaps he can send video or fly him over. The Japanese style of hitting while the front foot his already on its way to first is very different; it’s unfair to expect Gerald Perry to be able to coach that style very well.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Aug 12, 2008 7:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bench Dome Temporarily

I think the combination of Dome and DeRosa in the lineup is better in the long run than the combination of Fontenot and DeRosa. For a series, why not try Fontenot at second with DeRosa in right? Dome could pinch hit in that series and/or come in as a defensive replacement for DeRosa in right, if the Cubs are winning late.

I think Dome’s ego could take it. After said series, put Dome back in the starting lineup and move DeRosa back to second. I believe the temporary benching would take pressure off, not put pressure on, Dome. He’ll be fine in the end.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 12, 2008 9:07 AM CDT   0 recs

You can only do that if...

... there aren’t any LHP going, because Fontenot really can’t hit LHP.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you can do it anytime

because Fukudome can’t hit LHP or RHP right now

by TC Cubby on Aug 12, 2008 9:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Johnson in RF, DeRosa at 2B

I haven’t seen Johnson play RF, but he might be an option to replace Dome against LHP. The Cubs could leave DeRosa at 2B. Getting back to Fontenot, I think he can hit LHP about as well as Dome right now. In the long run, I know Dome will hit better against LHP than Fonty, but Dome is really struggling now.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 12, 2008 9:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If you put Johnson in RF

I think you run the risk of running Ed into the ground. I think that platoon has been working too good to mess up. I hope the answer to this is that Dome figures things out somehow.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Aug 12, 2008 9:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And Johnson can't hit RHP.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 9:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

we coming back to

having to call up PIE.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 10:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

To play Right?

not sure Lou would want that.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Aug 12, 2008 10:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

could he play center

and we’d put Reed in right sometimes?

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 10:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it seems like ever since sori got hurt

and he moved around in the lineup, is when he started slumping…..wonder if this has anything to do with it

i dismiss the idea that he is lonely, rather i think moving around in the lineup put him in tougher spots in the lineup and messed with his head…..now he’s lost his confidence

by cubswynn on Aug 12, 2008 12:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dome

Get a coach from his old team in Japan on a plane now if Perry can’t help.

I want my Macias!

by wombat on Aug 12, 2008 9:08 AM CDT   0 recs

They're in the middle of their season in Japan right now.

Easier said than done.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But it's gotta be worth whatever time and money it would take

to get SOMEONE in here to help him out. Dome is literally falling over when swinging now.

At the beginning of the season, his timing was such that, at contact, that massive weight shift would be transferred to the ball. Since he was so choosy at the plate, he would not look stupid while swinging and missing (and falling forward).

To me, dome is so off balance, and so less willing to take pitches, that he is swinging and missing a lot more and looking very follish in the process.

Someone needs to help him get it together. If he has a September/October like his April/May, he could carry this team.

*Synth intro to "Jump"*

by SouthsideCub on Aug 12, 2008 9:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

To me it looks he hasn't figured figured out each umps strike zone...

Some umps call that liberal outside corner that isn’t really a strike and others don’t. He’s knows it’s not a strike and he takes it. It gets called a strike. Then the rest of the at-bat confuses him. Seems like he has been less likely to take pitches because he’s confused. So he swings at the first pitch if it looks like a fastball. IMO I think it is a mental thing. He just looks confused as to what is a strike and what isn’t.

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark

by Fishbone2 on Aug 12, 2008 9:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

someone brought this up in that same radio interview...

and Dome said there wasn’t anyone like that either for him. Very strange. It basically made it seem like the only option he had as to get himself out of the slump… which does not sound encouraging…

I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com

by digitalbenjamin on Aug 12, 2008 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's about the only way to get out of a slump.

Sometimes slumps just happen for no reason other than that’s how baseball works.

Now, if it’s not a slump, but a systematic problem, then sure, more playing time won’t necessarily help things. But if it is just a slump, the only solution is to play until your luck turns around.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Aug 12, 2008 9:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

True, but

It doesn’t seem like it’s luck – it’s not like he’s making a lot of loud outs. He just looks awful at the plate lately, and maybe a few days to clear his head would help/

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2008 9:53 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs