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Another Tradition Dying... GOOD!

Instant Replay A-Coming

It could be coming as soon as next month, for fair/foul and fan interference calls.

Baseball is finally getting with the times! And they are actually improving on the NFL model. According to Verducci, there will be no challenge flags. Managers won't get a say in which ones are reviewed.

One of the stupidest rules in the NFL is that you only get two challenges per half. So, if the refs screw you three times, you can't do anything about it. Idiotic.

Now, let's move on to some other idiotic traditions that should be done away with.

* Managers should wear trousers and team polos, like the NFL. (It's too hot for suits, like the NBA) I'm sick of looking at 60-year-old men pack themselves into baseball uniforms. Gross!

* Sit down and shut up. The NBA has technicals that result in free attempts at shots. The NFL has unsportsmanlike conduct the adds or subtracts yards. Time to give the umps something in between, "Bite my tongue and hope he goes away" or "Yer outta the game!"

Give the umps to power to call technical balks. A manager or player argues too much with a man on first, guess what? He's going to second. Keeping it up? Looky there, he's on third.

If it's the batting team that's arguing, then the ump has the power to add strikes to the count.

* Get rid of obstacle courses in the outfield. The Enron Minute Maid atrocity is a joke. Just wanted to get that in there.

 

 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Meh....I'd actually just be happy...

if baseball started enforcing the actual strike-zone as it is defined in the rules of baseball, and maybe even started requiring middle infielders to have possession of the ball and touch 2nd base AT THE SAME TIME to record the force out while turning a double play.

Those 2 things would more than make up for the 4 or 5 times a year a HR and foul ball are mixed up.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2008 12:37 PM CDT   1 recs

That's another lousy tradition

Every ump having his own strike zone. That’s like every referee in the NFL getting to decide whether a TD counts for 5 points, 7 points or 9 points.

And while I’m at it, the strike zone is the letters to the knees, not the top of the belt buckle to the bottom of it.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 12:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's more like

the referee getting to decide if a first-down is 10 yards…or 8 yards…or maybe for this quarterback…because he’s so good…only 6 yards.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2008 12:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Strike Zones

DeBard Wrote:
Every ump having his own strike zone. That’s like every referee in the NFL getting to decide whether a TD counts for 5 points, 7 points or 9 points.

My Comment:
No, its not. Its not even close to that. Its just like the NFL in which every Ref has a different standard for what constitutes holding. Baseball is a game played by humans with human failings and judged by humans with human failings. Its not as “precise” as a computer game and it shouldn’t be as precise.

by frustratedfan on Aug 12, 2008 8:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But football

doesn’t take PRIDE in every ref having a different standard for holding. Santoswood is actually more accurate. I went too far in saying TDs. First downs are a good comparison.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 10:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, I hate those things too...

The strike zone should not be up for interpretation. It is clearly defined in the rulebook. The umps should be able to call it correctly, not decide what they think is a strike zone.

And the neighborhood play is a lot like the travelling call to me. I guess at some point the officials/umps started giving a bit more lenience to allow for more exciting plays (double plays and dunks). But it’s annoying. We make a big deal about the 1B being on the bag to get an out. The same should be true for SS and 2B.

by SouthernCub on Aug 12, 2008 1:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hear, hear!

The non-calling of travelling always bugs me, too. I would love to see the reactions of all of the primadonnas if it started getting called consistently.

Re: strike zones…ever since the home plate ump stretched the outside corner for Greg Maddux in the 1998 playoffs, that has bugged me. I remember Mickey Morandini looking incredulously at the umps after these off-the-plate “strikes” were called.

by jdb-44 on Aug 12, 2008 3:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It may be that the differences between the two leagues is too great, but...

...I doubt that a guy squatting behind another guy squatting is going to call it strikes in a uniform way. Umpires will be in different squat positions while catchers are of different sizes and then the batters are all different shapes and sizes. I would love if they went to a machine for calling the strike zone but I don’t expect some strict uniform strike zone from umpires.

Regarding other posts, I’d agree that players should have to step on bases with the ball for force outs and they should be required to put tags on guys and not just expect the call because the ball beats the runner. These types of plays are easy to discern but probably better for replay.

by DudeVf11 on Aug 12, 2008 11:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Managers

should NOT be allowed to not wear uniforms.

Technical balks? Give me a break.

We’ll see how instant replay works. If they use it for calling home runs good or bad when it’s questionable, then fine. These cameras aren’t exactly going to be calling plays at the plate.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 12:41 PM CDT   1 recs

Do you have a reason for the balks being bad?

Or are you just reflexively disagreeing with me?

Or perhaps you love the “tradition” of watching a grown man verbally abuse another grown man…

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 12:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you're suggesting

that something that happens that ISN’T the ball being in play be allowed to put runners in scoring position.

Steal - ball in play.
Balk - ball in play.
Hit - ball in play.
Walk - ball in play.
Arguing with the ump—ball not in play.

Umpires aren’t supposed to influence the game. They’re supposed to referee it. Your changes make the game worse, not better.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 12:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Drew, by rule

There are several ways a ball or a balk can result without the ball being in play.

Not saying I agree with the technical balk, but that doesn’t hold water.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2008 12:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the ball is still

being thrown—or not thrown, but it’s an actual PLAY of the game. It’s an action committed by a player. It’s not a reaction from a non-player resulting in some sort of red-card that influences the outcome of the game so drastically as to move runners into scoring position!

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 12:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The same is true in other sports...

complaining to vehemently about a call in basketball can actually put points on the board (via technicals). Taunting or other unsportsmanlike conduct calls in football result in the ball being moved closer to the other team’s end zone (or further from your own, with the perspective depending upon who has the ball). In each of these cases, an incident outside of the realm of play results in moving play closer to scoring for the other team.

The other aspect is that the point of the rule is to encourage less complaining, not to make the umpire more of an influence on the game. If you don’t want to give up the balk, don’t complain to the umpire. It’s that simple.

by SouthernCub on Aug 12, 2008 1:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But baseball in the 1920s didn't have it

So drew is against it.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 1:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

damn straight.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 1:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Owners once thought

That radio would kill attendance.

That TV would kill radio.

That lights would destroy the game

That players should be slaves to them for life.

That teams should only be east of the Mississippi (unless it was St. Louis)

It’s called evolving. Try it.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 1:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's called respecting traditions.

try it. We’re not talking about withholding a polio vaccine. It’s baseball.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 1:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Some traditions suck

And if it’s just baseball, why so worked up about changes?

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 1:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes...I say NASCAR should start requiring at least 1 RIGHT TURN every race.

Time to evolve.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2008 1:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm for it

Anything to make NASCAR interesting at all.

I’m also for getting rid of NASCAR altogether and putting that gas back in the supply.

by Arbusto on Aug 12, 2008 2:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How come Al Gore hasn't lobbied to get NASCAR shut down?

That’s like 50 cars driving around for 6 hours for no reason! Go Green America! End NASCAR!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2008 2:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I kind of like knowing where NASCAR fans are every week.

Otherwise, they might be trying to mate with our daughters.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 2:31 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

lol!

"That guy is a gamer." said Ron Santo of Reed Johnson on 07-25-08

by love the ivy on Aug 12, 2008 3:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

funniest thing I've read all month...lol

Nobody cares about your fantasy league team

by carmen_fanzone on Aug 12, 2008 5:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this is my first comment

i poke around on these forums all the time, but never post. That was funny enough to log in and say well said.

by heine41 on Aug 13, 2008 4:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I've seen a few right turns in NASCAR

they all ended up in crashes

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Aug 12, 2008 3:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

becuase

THESE traditions DO NOT SUCK.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 2:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

neither is

getting rid of them.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 2:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

getting rid of them

for no good reason

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 2:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's a better reason than "change for change's sake"

“If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it” seems like a pretty valid philosophy. Adding replay changes a tradition because the current system is broken.

I haven’t heard a single compelling reason for changing these other traditions. Keeping the game as similar as you can to how it was is what let’s you compare performances across the years.

by Wreckard on Aug 12, 2008 2:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with you

Replay is fine because it fixes something broken.

But saying “don’t do it, it changes baseball” is silly and doesn’t add anything

by Arbusto on Aug 12, 2008 2:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so does saying

“do it, it changes baseball”

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 2:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

DaBard is

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 2:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No, you disagree with my reasons

But do not say I’ve not given any.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 2:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you haven't given any

that make any sense. There’s no need to give umpires more power. There’s no valid reason to make the managers dress like trainers.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 2:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No reason you agree with

You’re not the center of the world

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 2:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

neither are you

and I don’t need to come up with a good reason to NOT change things. You’re the one who wants to turn Baseball into something it’s not.

Your justifications are weak, your arguments are not persuasive, and your rebuttals are poor.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1 !

n/t

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2008 8:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1, again

n/t

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2008 8:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!

by sue369 on Aug 12, 2008 3:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh please

162 games. 10-inch mound. Changing strike zone. Extra rounds of playoffs. Expansion. Blind eye to steroids. Labor stoppages.

No one in baseball gives a damn about keeping stats consistent. They never have and never will.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 2:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if that’s true, then why are people arguing with you? fans are a part of baseball and apparently many of them seem to care…

"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella

by anormal on Aug 12, 2008 2:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No one IN baseball

No one with any power to make any decision gives one damn about continuity of stats.

They never have and never will.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 2:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so now you speak for everyone who works for major league baseball?

"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella

by anormal on Aug 12, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He's Bud Selig...

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 12, 2008 2:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that would explain

a heck of a lot.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 3:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Use logic...

If any owner, commissioner, union head or player had any respect for continuity of stats, none of those things would have been changed.

So, please… spare me the sanctimony about purity of stats.

If anyone with any decision-making ability cared, we’d still be watching 154-game seasons with no team west of St. Louis and a 15-inch mound.

No one cares.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 3:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

All of those had economic and / or logical justifications

The best reason you’ve come up with is “I don’t like it.”

by Wreckard on Aug 12, 2008 2:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i don’t understand the arguement of “since they do this in football or basketball we should do that in baseball”. i, for one, don’t care at all what they do in basketball or football. i don’t watch those sports. maybe changes need to be made in baseball, but the arguement of “all the other sports do it so we should do it too” just sounds silly.

"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella

by anormal on Aug 12, 2008 1:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Again, I didn't say I agreed with the idea

But the argument was mistaken. A balk can be called if a pitcher takes the mound without the ball, for example.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2008 3:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I consider that to be a ball in play situation

if the pitcher doesn’t have the ball, someone else does. Sure, sometimes it’s called for stupid things - like the pitcher drops the ball. But sometimes it’s the old hidden ball trick, nyuk, nyuk - and the ball is therefore in play.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not exactly

the term of ball in play does not mean it is in motion either a throw or hit. It’s after the umpire’s have signaled the play is now live (one example is after the batter is back in the box and the ump points to the pitcher). After that signal, the ball is in play, even though it has not yet been pitched.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2008 8:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And by giving them a middle ground...

They can punish players and coaches who get out of line - no other sport puts up with the abuse of its officials - without throwing them out of the game, which has a far greater influence than moving a runner to second.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

umps are not supposed to mess with the game

This is a terrible idea.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 12:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

throwing out the manager rarely does

I’m not sure I can even remember the last time a Cub was thrown out of a game.

But throwing someone out of a game is a last-resort, rarely done move.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 1:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LSA

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Aug 13, 2008 8:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"Technical balk"?

Sorry, not buying this one.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 12, 2008 12:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fair enough...

If moving the baserunners along is too harsh, then stick solely with the ball-and-strike counts.

Batter or batting team’s manager goes over the line? Add strikes
Pitcher or catcher or fielding team’s manager? Add balls

I just want an equivalent of a technical foul/unsportsmanlike conduct. There should be a middle ground between an ump having to take it and throwing the player or manager out of the game.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 12:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why?

Why do we need a middle ground there?

The lines are pretty clearly drawn; if a manager crosses those lines he gets an ejection, a fine, and a suspension with no option to appeal. It’s a stiff penalty that already keeps them in check.

It’s not like we have some epidemic of arguments that needs to be contained. Adding instant replay takes away one of the most contentious points of argument, so that should mean fewer already.

by Wreckard on Aug 12, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Instant replay is limited

And will never be for balls and strikes. It may some day get to plays at the plate and trap plays, but that’s probably it.

I agree that we’re not in an epidemic, but every single time a manager or player is thrown out, you hear “Guess the ump thought the fans came to see him”

Well, how about giving the ump another weapon? One to punish the offender without depriving the fans of what they paid for or disproportionately hurting the team?

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 1:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

umps don't need more weapons

they need fewer. They’re not part of the game. They’re monitors.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 12, 2008 1:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The idea that the officials aren't part of the game

in any sport is ludicrous.

Umps right now have two options—bend over and take it, or throw the player/manager out. No other sport has this. No sport SHOULD have it.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 1:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Have you ever watched an NFL game before?

Ever noticed the Head Coach calmly screaming like a banshee at the side judge? The same thing happens in the NBA….it’s just that there are rules against members of the coaching staff and players not currently in the game from being on the field of play. Baseball allows managers to enter the field of play as long as there isn’t a ball in play and time has been called.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2008 1:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't see the connection you making here.

I’m not suggesting baseball adopt anything similar to the NFL or NBA policy prohibiting coaches entering the field of play…

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 12, 2008 1:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Just saying that because the coaches can enter the field of play

...you could justify the coaches wearing uniforms, another tradition that DaBard was seeking to slice away for no good reason with his internet 3dge.

by Wreckard on Aug 12, 2008 1:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Seeing Lou Pinella in a uniform

is reason enough

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 12, 2008 1:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If "LOL FAT" is the best reason you can come up with

...then I don’t think there’s any danger of that rule being changed.

by Wreckard on Aug 12, 2008 1:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs