Almost Flawless: Cubs 10, Braves 2 and Cubs 8, Braves 0
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 8:30 AM CDT
in Recaps
675 comments
You may have seen this number already, but it bears repeating: 26. Twenty-six games over .500, the most a Cub team has been since the last day of the 1984 season, when they finished an NL East title year at 96-65, 31 games over .500.
You've seen these numbers if you keep track of the "best starts" box I've had on the right sidebar since May -- there are, as of this morning, only nine Cub teams that have had a better record through 120 games than this year's 73-47. That includes six pennant winners, a 104-win second place team (1909), a 91-win third place team (1912) and the ill-fated 1969'ers.
The 2008 Cubs have a chance to outdo nearly all of them -- only one of those nine won the World Series (1907); the 1908 team is on the list on the sidebar, but if you've been keeping track, you know that it just recently appeared on the list. In 1908 the team got off to a good start, slumped in the middle of the season, and didn't return to first place to stay till late September, finishing 99-55.
And yesterday, they swept the Braves in a doubleheader, winning the first game 10-2, and then came out blazing with four first-inning runs in game two, shutting Atlanta out 8-0, their first doubleheader sweep since the twinbill that clinched the NL Central title on September 27, 2003.
As has been the case with this year's team, different heroes emerged for each game. In game one, Jim Edmonds and Geovany Soto both homered -- Soto needs one more to tie the Cubs' team record for HR by a rookie catcher, 19, set by Randy Hundley in 1966 -- and Aramis Ramirez, Mark DeRosa, Ryan Theriot and Alfonso Soriano all had two hits. It's one of the Soriano hits that was the only blemish on this gem of a game -- when he stood at the plate admiring a ball that he thought was out of the ballpark, only to see it bounce off the wall. Sori had to stop at first with a single and he also had to apologize to Lou Piniella and his teammates. This isn't the first time Soriano has done this -- but it had better be the last. This team doesn't need this kind of hotdogging. It led to a pitch high and tight by Braves rookie reliever Francisley Bueno the next time Soriano came to bat, leading to Bueno's immediate ejection. While a "message" pitch may be "part of the game", as many players say, throwing at someone's head is decidedly not.
In game two, Kosuke Fukudome perhaps began the process of coming out of his slump with a two-run, first-inning single in the Cubs' four-run inning. This made life easier for Rich Harden, who, throwing with eight days' rest, was a little wild, walking five, but allowing only two singles. The walks helped lead to a large pitch total (92) after five innings, so Lou took Harden out, and the bullpen, consisting in game two of Chad Gaudin, Neal Cotts, Kerry Wood and Sean Marshall, gave the Braves only one hit and one walk over the last four innings. The Cubs' eight-run, ten-hit, six-walk attack in game two included no homers; that's one of the things I like most about this team, that they can put up big run totals without the long ball. Marshall, incidentally, will start on Sunday in Florida, an extra starter being needed because of the juggling as a result of Tuesday's rainout. Harden, whose turn would have come up on Sunday, will throw the first game vs. the Reds at Wrigley Field next Tuesday.
With the win well in hand, the CSN crew decided to focus on the frivolity in the dugout -- Carlos Zambrano balancing a bottle on his head, and putting a bubble gum bubble on the top of Mike Fontenot's cap. You could hear "Let's Go Cubbies!" loudly chanted in the stands -- almost as loud as at a home game; looking at various crowd shots, Cubs fans had to outnumber Braves fans, at least in the late innings of the two blowouts.
I've written this before but it bears repeating. Remember each and every one of these games in this special season. We are seeing things that most Cubs fans have never seen before. With the Brewers still winning, all of these wins are important. Let's sweep this series -- the Cubs are, at last, winning on the road (that's seven consecutive road wins, incidentally, dating back to the last game of the Arizona series), and that's about the only thing this team hasn't been doing well.
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lets finish it off
tonight!!
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 14, 2008 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
SWEEP!!!
Al, you must enjoy writing these recap posts, as they seem to appear earlier and earlier each morning. Let’s complete the SEASON sweep of the Braves!!!
by cubbiefanTN on Aug 14, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sabathia
I sure hope like heck the Brewers dont get the bright idea to pony up 150 mil for him. If ever I wanted the Yankees to get some pitching—it’s now. Please get him out of the NL central.
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 14, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately...
… we’re stuck with him in the NL Central till the end of this year.
I suspect Sabathia’s headed to the Angels or Dodgers (he’s from Southern California).
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm young
but I dont ever recall a trade pickup ever being that good. It makes me sick it really does but my god he’s phenomenal.
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 14, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check Rick Sutcliffe
It’s looking like the closest thing I can remember.
by rlpete on Aug 14, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats bad is
he’s even belting hr’s.
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 14, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but we want CC
hitting and running the bases – it can only tire him out. Greater risk of injuries when you’re batting…. not that i want CC to be injured – I don’t – the likelihood of injury is greater when pitchers bat.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Sutcliffe - 1984
went from the Indians to the Cubs. He went 16-1 the rest of the way, led the Cubs to the postseason for the first time since ’45, and won the Cy Young that year. Probably before your time, but it has happened before :)
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope...
… we can view the Rich Harden trade in the same light when this season is over.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
not trying to take anything away from what are team has done but man Ive been amazed by him.
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 14, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only reason
That the CC trade was better then the Rich Harden trade was the fact that CC goes 8-9 innings EVERY game. At this exact moment that is huge for them. Now the trades balance out because we have harden until the end of next season.
Also how many teams has CC faced above .500? I think we’re the only one and the only reason he didn’t get a loss from us was because they tied it after he left (if i remember right).
by cubsfaninatl on Aug 14, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Points...
More than anything the CC trade has been good for the Brew because it’s less likely they need to use a bullpen that isn’t all that good. That right there is a couple wins in itself. He’s faced COL, CIN, SF, STL, CHC, ATL, WAS, SD.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the possibilities
CC ends up on the North Side after season’s end? I, for one, am a huge fan and think he’d look great in Blue Pinstripes.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's possible, I suppose...
… depending on what happens with ownership, and how many of the current team are retained. You do want to keep Dempster and Wood around, right?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm.
I like Demp, but if Demp is looking at 15M per year for 5 years. I think I would prefer CC at 18 for 5.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the rate CC's going he's looking at 28 per.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Demp won't get $15M per off one good year of starting again.
It’ll probably be more like $8M per, with a ton of incentives, and I think it’ll be with the Cubs.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Aug 14, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do to. He likes being a Cub
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CAn you say "Home Town Discount"?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Home town discount.
Demp loves being a Cub. This is the team that gave him a chance to come back after Tommy John surgery. Then gave him the opportunity to start again after 3 years of closing.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Aug 14, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he will take a Fair Deal from Hendry.
He really deserves it. I don’t say that much but for how hard he’s worked since the thought of him becoming a starter last year during the season; I truly tip my cap.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that offer didn't include the all-you-can-eat dessert bar in the clubhouse.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 14, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the Brewers have an eating buddy for him
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could always retain Ward...
…as a “special assistant.”
by John Q Freejazz on Aug 14, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Daryle, his ward!
I love it.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy
double entendres, batman!
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
But can you imagine our SR lined up as Z, CC, Demp, Lilly, (Shark, Marshall, Guzman, etc)?
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden is with us next year too.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he chooses to be.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's under contract for next year, isn't he? Option?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a player option, I believe
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe it's a club option.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Aug 14, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Club Option AFTER 09
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right.
$7 mil club option, with no buyout clause
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry:
"We will have the rights for a year and a half, so that’s the other advantage of him not being a free agent," Hendry said. "He has an option that could vest, or we could pick up the option or we could arbitrate. So he certainly has a chance to be a Cub through the end of next year."
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a damn good deal for the
Cubs if he stays healthy.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt...
A healthy Harden over the guys we gave up. Take that any day of the week.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At 7 mil? I'll take that all day!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See you on board...Senator :)
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I christen thee - the Flying WASP!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well don't just stand there!
GET SOME GLUE!!!
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey! - there's my buddy! I want to
go over there! Let me drive! I think I just got head from Amelia Earheart!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guy in boat (Eyes Bugged)
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
How did I forget him. Scratch my fifth starter dilemma then. Z, Harden, CC, Demp, Lilly. Book it.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ted Lilly as a '5'
Dare any team to top that!
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lmao
born in 81’ so yeah besides espn classic and my collection of old cub tapes—didnt see much of it.
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 14, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that 1984 cubs team was magical, my friend.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 months
u wont be whispering a peep about that team ever again. hehehe at least I hope
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 14, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's when the original "Go Cubs Go"
started, isn’t it? I was in 8th grade and remember singing it in school. And yes, 1984 was magical! I was in love with Ryne Sandberg then and for many years afterwards!
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think so...
The Dernier/Sandberg 1-2 punch at the top of the lineup was awesome. Seemed like Bobby-D would get on base, Steal second and Ryno would drive him in. August and September especially. That team always brings back good memories even though the ending was sad.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Ryno and Dernier
I met them both at the Cubs Caravan after that year. Still have the autographed little black and whites they handed out. Gary Matthews was there too (me thinks??).
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome... That is a great piece.
I have a Buddy that works for the Beloit Snappers (Twins A team). Ryno comes through town a lot with the Chiefs. He got me a Ryno signed ball. Pretty cool. He wrote his hall-of-fame year on it and number. That ball sits deep in my closet in a ziploc bag.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one I went to had
Dernier, Bosley, Frey and Sandberg
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it WAS Thad
I’ll have to check the ‘old box of things in the back of the closet’.
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got it.
Either Ryno or Sarge would drive Dernier in. I still remember the Sarge running out a double, and as he rounded first he’d always knock his batting helmet off his head. Used to crack me up.
Buddy of mine in 1984 used to work as a batboy for the Cubs – but he worked in the opposition’s dugout. I went to a Cubs Padres game in ‘84 and he took my Cubs program and had a lot of the team sign it for me – not that I really wanted a Cubs program signed by the ’84 Padres, considering how that season wound up. I just came across the program the other day, and while I can’t make out a lot of the autographs – I can still find Tony Gwynn, Bruce Bochy and Craig Lefferts.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As painful of a reminder as that might be
A Tony Gwynn autograph is pretty damn cool
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tell me about it
in 1984, Gwynn was not that far removed from a rookie, and it was also his first star season. In 1984, Tony Gwynn was a nobody, but everyone knew he was by 1985.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1987- Doyle Alexander
The Tigers traded some minor league pitcher named John Smoltz to Atlanta for Alexander. He went 9-0 with a 1.53 ERA leading Detroit to the AL East title
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Aug 14, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, unti Darryl “F’n” Evans was picked off third, it looked like a magical season for the tiggers. Who knew they would stink for 15+ years after that.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Johnson to the Astros...
he was unreal after that. Of course, the trade wound up hurting the Stros later, as Guillen, Garcia, and Halama all were key pieces of the Mariners teams in the early 2000s.
by SouthernCub on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slight correction...
CC is from Vallejo which is 30 minutes north of San Francisco. I coached against him at Vallejo High School. Odds are, he’ll be heading to a So.Cal teams though.
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cheshire Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
by Hagen on Aug 14, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Close but not quite
Sabathia is from Vallejo, which is in the Bay Area. He’s from Northern California.
Still, I can’t see the Athletics or Giants shelling out for him. The Dodgers are the most likely destination, I would agree.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
by Josh77 on Aug 14, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees
They want him, they need him , they will pay him.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 14, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true too
But the rumors are he’d take a discount to play in California. Whether one of the California teams would be close enough to the Yankees isn’t clear. Certainly Oakland and San Diego wouldn’t. The Giants would be a great match, except it’s not likely they’re going to offer another pitcher a huge deal after the Zito fiasco. The Angels don’t need starting pitching and would more likely try to re-sign K-Rod and Teixeira than go after Sabathia.
That just leaves the Dodgers who are a mess in the front office. If they get their act together and make a solid bid, I think they get him. They can offer him money, California and the chance to hit. They may not offer as much as the Yankees, but Sabathia would likely prefer playing for the Dodgers.
But if the Dodgers can’t get their act together, then he’s almost certainly a Yankee.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
by Josh77 on Aug 14, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers need hitting BAD
I don’t see them spending their wad on CC. They probably want to keep Manny.
Lowe will be a free agent but Penny, & Billingsley are an awful good one & 2. I think they
will go for hitting.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 14, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
While CC maybe be a good fit in LALA-land, I just can’t see the Dodgers spending the money to make it happen.
I would imagine that they will be at least involved in Manny discussions, and he’ll be seeking $20mm+ — though not sure he will get it. And regardless of Manny, they also have a couple of very expensive, and none too productive CFs… That front office just seems far too flawed to pull it off.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the math/$ is in their favor
to sign either Sheets or Sabathia. It’s all or nothing this season for the Brewers. If they don’t get to the postseason this year, it’s not going to be with those two pitchers next season. I think both Sheets and Sabathia walk.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think they have the money to offer both of them.
"Go Cubs Go"
by mkcubs21 on Aug 14, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd heard that
after the contracts/FA salaries are wiped off the Brewers books at the end of the year, the Brewers would have something like 46M to play with, assuming the owner doesn’t lower the payroll back to the level it was before the 08 season began. Based on the number of holes to fill, raises for arbitration eligibles (like Prince), etc – as youve said, the money won’t be there.
Tragic.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cc
has a passion for hitting much like Z too.
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 14, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im sick of hearing how great CC has been
yes he’s 7-0. but they got him to beat the cubs. he has 8 starts and 7 wins. the only start not a win was against the cubs, a game they lost. he has been great, but they got him to help them get over the cubs, which he didnt
Dinosaurs? "Didn't exist. You can't say there were dinosaurs when you never saw them." -Carl Everett
by NDcubsfan on Aug 14, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
No one is going to win every game. If the Brewers go 36-6 the rest of the way, with the 6 being the Cubs, they’ll win 106 games. I think that just might get it done.
Granted, they won’t, but that logic is flawed.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They got him to get them to the playoffs
He is doing that. You have to them credit for the deal. He has been everything they could have hoped for.
by rlpete on Aug 14, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And probably More.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he hasn't eaten any other Brewers players. a plus...
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure?
Ryan Braun’s been absent lately…
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Braun has been referred to
as a ‘hot dog’.
Shang – you’re onto something and it ain’t pretty.
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
What if, right now, Harden was 7-0 and a sub 1 ERA, but also had a Gasp No-decision against the BrewCrew? I’d take it.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ignore the Boldage
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im sayin
that yes he has been great. but the one team they got him to beat, he didnt. all im sayin
Dinosaurs? "Didn't exist. You can't say there were dinosaurs when you never saw them." -Carl Everett
by NDcubsfan on Aug 14, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They did NOT get him just to beat the Cubs
That is absurd.
They got him to make the post-season.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A friend at the game
called me to say the “Go Cubs Go” singing at the end of the game was awesome, loud and it seemed only a large cubs fan base was left at the end of the game. A win tonight seems proably and 2 of 3 in FLA is needed. Win series, win series win series.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Aug 14, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seems probable (not probably)
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Aug 14, 2008 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's going to be a great day...
looking forward to a sweep being completed later tonight in Atlanta. Thinking about yesterday’s double header sweep is going to sustain me through out the day… GO CUBS GO!! GO CUBS GO!! GO CUBS GO!!
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Aug 14, 2008 8:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping the Padres don't simply roll over for the Brewers tonight.
At least win one game, San diego… please?
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 8:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I dont think the Padres have much control over that..
…they are beyond awful. They are a AAA team just like the Nationals.
"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08
by JB 23 on Aug 14, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Braves.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy is going tonight
so they have a shot…
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said earlier
Peavy will have to pitch a no-hitter…..game time FYI, is 2:30 CT.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 14, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can live with that.
Current temperature in hell: 45 degrees F - and falling!
by wnielsen on Aug 14, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's the Reds, Nats and Padres
and how bad they are, but all three are playing like GARBAGE against the Brewers. At least the Astros, Cardinals and Braves are putting up a little bit of a fight.
That said, the Cubs looked real good yesterday and I expect Reed to get about 7 RBI tonight.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on Aug 14, 2008 8:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It has to be somewhat deflating though to a Brew team that has won 8 in a row and ONLY
has gained a game. I don’t count the half game because the Cubs will get that back.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we did already, didn't we?
they won one game yesterday, we won two.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but we didn't play on Tuesday either.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were off on Monday. They beat the Nats.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, well.
We’ll ahve a game when they have an off day, and we’ll get it back then.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They'll cool off with better competition. They are a streaky team.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I foresee
a huge disintegration for the Brewers in september. Catastrophic explosion.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that, If Sheets stays healthy,
you can almost count on them winning 2 out of every five. No losing streaks there.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets hasn't been all that great since the Sabathia trade though.
5-5 in his last 10.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They gained a full game on Monday and Tuesday.
We got half back yesterday.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braves? Not so far.
*knock on "the hard fibrous lignified substance under the bark of trees " *
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on Aug 14, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
the Braves put up much of a fight yesterday.
Cards and Astros, sure. But not the Braves.
Borowy . . .Sutcliffe . . .Harden?
by Josh77 on Aug 14, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Memorable DH Sweeps
This is only August, but I would put this one in the top four.
4.- 8/13/2008 at Atlanta
3.- 8/07/1984 at Wrigley vs. the Mets
2.- 9/23/1984 at St. Louis to clinch tie for division title
1.- 9/27/2003 at Wrigley vs. Pirates to clinch division title
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Aug 14, 2008 8:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I loved the Mets one in 84
There a monster fight in the first game.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 14, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have double standards much?
The Soriano-bashing is just silly. The guy got a hit in a blowout game and because he watched it, he ended up on first base instead of second. You think that’s a big deal?
You know what’s worse? Getting out. You know what’s even worse than that? Making stupid outs. Like the scrappy superstar Ryan Theriot did yesterday when he got doubled off first base.
by Leon Durham on Aug 14, 2008 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Theriot made a mistake.
Fonzie’s was 100% avoidable.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Soriano’s play was showboating. That’s never acceptable.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have always said
if you hit a walkoff hit to win the WS, showboat until the cows come home. Until then, you better be running the bases and not watching, clapping, flipping bats, etc.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Aug 14, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many times
can Theriot make the same mistake (shitty baserunning) before we are allowed to criticize him?
by Leon Durham on Aug 14, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great question
For some reason, he gets a pass a lot on here. And don’t forget about his range, or lack thereof.
by lamentir on Aug 14, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Theriot gets blasted for that here quite a bit.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
No other Cub gets blasted more than him.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for Soriano
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would be wrong.
Theriot, Fonty, and Johnson = The Scrappy Pyramid of Victory
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on Aug 14, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats a technical balk
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gary!
hi, Gary!
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Howry
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha
Cedeno
Ward
Marquis
Wuertz
Howry
What you mean is that “No other Cub with a significant fanbase gets blasted more than him.” And even then Soriano and Fukudome recently rival TheRabidlyPositivePressCoverageRiot.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Aug 14, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, what I meant was
no other Cub with significant playing time.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, in that case, Marquis probably gets the roughest ride.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
definitely.....
i’m trying to change the hearts and minds everyday……he’s been making me look good lately…..remember folks, he’s our #5 starter!
by cubswynn on Aug 14, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
ONEDEC gets praised…
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's
Cedeno that gets ripped.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like the evil Star Trekkers with moustaches.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you a good Ondec
or a bad Ondec?
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, the answer is not "5"
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree and disagree.
The Soriano bashing has reached a point where it’s hyperbole. I’ll agree with you there.
However, in this instance, a degree of it is appropriate. Unfortunately, baseball isn’t a game where you can turn “it” off and turn “it” on at-bat to at-bat and game to game.
Baseball is a game of consistency. It’s a game of repetition. Players form habits. Mentalities carry over game to game.
I’ll disagree with a fanpost that Soriano needed to be embarrassed or publicly rebuked. I think it was handled in the best way—after the game, Pinella told Soriano that it can’t happen. He probably encouraged the apology from Soriano—both to the media and privately to the players. This way, acknowledgment was made, but not in an embarrassing way.
"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08
by Bildo1805 on Aug 14, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody that thinks it won't happen again is being foolish
Thats who Soriano is. He is one of my favorite players, and this is the way he plays the game. Unfortunatly not everybody likes it.
I’ll take the guy putting up MVP type numbers and being a great teammate. Who gives a F if he showboats a little. Alfonso is by no means the only player who looks at a long drive that falls short of the wall.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on Aug 14, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until he does it in a World Series game....
And costs us the game. Then it will not be looked upon as “no big deal”.
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What exactly did it cost us yesterday?
Dome walked and he was on second anyway
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on Aug 14, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I am saying....
Hit the ball, put head down and run to first. Is that too much to ask for? You can showboat once you get to the bag. I know that it is “Soriano being Soriano” but I think Ramirez has learned that lesson. It is time for Soriano to do the same… It is not a video game out there
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's 32 years old
He isn’t gonna change, there is no point in trying to make him change. I wonder if people would be as upset if Theriot or Fukudome did the same thing.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on Aug 14, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
He isn’t going to change. It’s part of his personality. He isn’t the only one that does it. He might try and change but it will happen again.
Let me add though that this does not make Soriano a bad teammate. All indications are that he is a good teammate but he does have a bit of showboat in him.
by rlpete on Aug 14, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say it again
Look at the pic from Blanco’s winning hit. Soriano is the first person out there. He is a great teammate from what I can see. He isn’t this selfish ball player that some people have painted him as.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on Aug 14, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anything...
the embarrassment will cause a short-term change, maybe we’ll see him hustle out of the box on his next few shots.
But I won’t be surprised when we see him admiring a HR a month from now. That said, I agree that by all means he seems to be a great teammate and is a huge asset to this team.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he can do it in a different way.
When Reed his the go-ahead two-run shot against the Pirates he ran down the line and then raised his hand knowing it was gone. But, had he been wrong at least he’s at second (maybe even third) and still looks like a hero, not a fool.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could've cost him another trip to the DL
High tight fastballs to the head or hands can do that.
"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."
by flachimesa on Aug 14, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Throwing at someone's head is never acceptable.
Once it got to blowout stage, Howry should have been sent in to plunk Chipper
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on Aug 14, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The same Chipper who was benched for the second game for flu-like symptoms?
That would have been one hell of a wild pitch.
by Clutch16 on Aug 14, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gagne
could do it.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But on the bright side
Throwing at someone in the dugout might get Howry suspended for the year!
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on Aug 14, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah, hard to do...
…Ben Christianson’s out of the game now…
by Shawon O Meter on Aug 14, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano said he would not do it again....
Yet…. in the second game it appeared to me that he lingered at the plate watching his double over the right fielder’s head. Say what you will about a guy like Pete Rose… but you would never see him do something like that. He hustled on each and every play. That is the way to play baseball IMHO.
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i truly believe soriano is a better player when he's cocky
obviously i don’t have anything to back this up with, but i just think it’s a mental thing……let’s call it his “cubbie swagger”
by cubswynn on Aug 14, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my point is if he keeps producing, he can pretty much do whatever he wants
by cubswynn on Aug 14, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like retire, and then unretire, then retire and unretire again?
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look...
this isn’t about Rhyno…
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ps,
or jordan.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm... hungry now...
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sandberg only came back once
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone mentioned there's some football player doing that
didn’t catch the name though….i think it was joba
by cubswynn on Aug 14, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not a Packer fan, quite the opposite.
However, as much as I am happy to see #4 out of the division (the bears can suck this year without him around), he really only retired once. Even then, he came back before training camp, so is that really a retirement? Not like he sat out all or part of a season.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He waffled in March
They were going to take him back, then he changed his mind.
Plus, he’s been waivering for years. I’m a Packers fan and sick of the “maybe I’ll play, maybe I won’t” stuff.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True,
but it’s different than retiring.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
different maybe
lame either way…..too bad bc makes me lose respect for him
by cubswynn on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed Soriano
almost watching that ball in the second game – there was a momentary pause where he instinctively started to watch, then the instant he remembered his apology and he took off running. I don’t know if Fonzie can NOT watch his long drives.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlie Hustle
Of course Pete had to run hard, he had money on that game!
by salparadise23 on Aug 14, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhh. That explains why he ran hard every game, ASG included.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful, I got accused of being Jay Marriotti for pointing that out
Soriano is a great player, probably a great teammate and a huge assett to the Cubs. I’m glad they have him.
He is not beyond reproach, though, and I don’t get the “you’re with him or against him” reactions on this site.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point, Leon.
I wonder if Theriot had to apologize for making his 5th out on basepaths of the season. I bet not. No one even notced ans the second baseman dropped the ball, picked it up, and still had time to get Theriot. I bet it was Soriano’s fault for hitting such a blazing linedrive. Poor Theriot had no time to thinks and react.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that
kinda like Theriot being at fault for all of Lee’s DPs this year, because he keeps having multi-hit games and only getting on base all the time?
I’ll rip on any player if he’s deserving, but I think the key difference here is that Theriot’s mistake last night was a mistake, whether mental or physical. We all know, mistakes happen. Or shit happens, however you like it. What Sori did wasn’t a mistake, it was lack of respect for the game, whatever that may mean to each of us. He didn’t run after hitting the ball, basical little league stuff. When a guy as good and important to our team as Sori does something like that, it raises some ire (Scotty Ire, even) around here. I don’t have a problem seeing the difference between these situations.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
That’s what doing actual work today was getting in the way of me trying to say. Thanks, Kegler.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
best post of the day
thanks kegler
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
pretty tired of the theriot hate.
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 14, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot & Fontenot bashers
These guys kill me.
Some alleged “expert” from Goat Riders mercilessly made fun of me early in the season because I had the gall to say I’d rather have Theriot instead of Izturis at short.
No, really. One can almost smell the “I stunk in Little League” by the endless “we win a pair 18-2, but Theriot got picked off base!”-type comments.
Get over it.
If you can’t support your own guys – guys who gut it out the best they can, sign autographs for kids, do what is asked of them by their manager, etc. – go root for the Rent-A-Brewers or Yankee$.
"They say the big possums come out late." H. Caray
by Don Gerard on Aug 14, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa!
Why can’t someone criticize a player without them being plotters to undermine the security of “Cub nation”?
Again, no one is beyond reproach. There is nothing wrong with noting the flaws in someone’s game. It doesn’t mean that the player is being “hated on”.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
And I’ll be more inclined to listen to the “Stop the Theriot Hate” bandwagon when
a) I actually see “hate” instead of just reasoned criticism
b) I see a Theriot supporter defend Cedeno who also is one of “our own guys.”
I think a lot of the Theriot frustration centers around an argument that is actually pro-Cedeno, so it’s not anti-our-guys at all.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Aug 14, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot hate
1) When Theriot gets criticized for DLee hitting into double plays, that’s irrational, and it’s hating.
2) Theriot is my guy (I wear his jersey to every game and most casual Fridays) but I wish Cedeno would get more playing time.
Fair enough?
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 14, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot hate
1) When Theriot gets criticized for DLee hitting into double plays, that’s irrational, and it’s hating.
2) When Theriot gets criticized for his lack of range, arm, and other mental gaffs on defense (dropping the ball, not covering the bag, stupid throws allowing runners extra bases) that’s called justified criticism.
Fair enough?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 14, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good sir
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it in the form of a photoshopped lolcat picture.
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 14, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've missed that criticism
and it would probably be unfair. Maybe you could make some case that Lee has trouble hitting with base-stealers on, but he always did fine with Pierre/Castillo in FL. So, w/o having seen that one directly, it does seem irrational.
Personally, I think Theriot gets overblown on both sides because he has definite positive value this year getting on base and definite negative defensive value. Each side seems to get stuck wanting the other side to admit either the + or the -. I also think Lou’s preferential playing time for Theriot causes frustration.
Since I’m granting your “fair enough” will you grant that a lot of the Stop the Theriot Hate posts are responses to non-hateful reasoned discussion?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Aug 14, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say this about Theriot:
He’s out-producing his mistakes right now (which was something I didn’t think he was doing, until I looked at the raw numbers), and that’s really all you can ask of a player like him. The only reason I brought him up was to drive home the point that Soriano gets criticized for things the Theriot doesn’t, even when they do equally stupid things in the same game.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what people are trying to say...
… is that the “equally stupid things” you claim that Soriano and Theriot did in the same game, aren’t “equally stupid”.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my view they are.
And the fact that people think they aren’t, in my view, is exhibit A of the double standard in regards to these two players. Both are stupid, avoidable mistakes, yet Soriano is called on the carpet, and made to apologize for his, while Theriot’s isn’t even mentioned.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano's wasn't a "mistake".
It was a deliberate act.
Theriot’s was an error in judgment. I grant you, he has made quite a number of these and they ought to stop.
Happy now?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano's was an error in judgement.
Theriot was mental gaffe.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I'll grant you the semantics.
Still, you acknowledge there was a difference in how the “errors” were made.
Should we sit here bashing Theriot for “mental gaffes”? I think there are enough places already doing that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different types of errors
doesn’t make any one of them less egregious and worthy of castigation.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna get into an argument over this.
One was showboating. The other was a mental mistake, something players do all the time in the course of playing. Should there be fewer of them? Absolutely. But doing what Soriano did can bring unintended consequences on him and his teammates. What Theriot did wouldn’t do that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a deliberate act
in error, tho, right? I mean, he didn’t say “that’s going to be off the wall, so I’m going to stand here and only get a single” — he said “wow, that’s gone, I get to watch the pretty ball go over the — OH, CRUD!”
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deal
The guy has limitations. But he is an inexpensive foil to the players due a lot of money.
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 14, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beyond his inexpense
I willing to grant that his example in the clubhouse may have gone far to teach a lesson of training or working hard that led to this year’s overall improved team. But that’s not something any of us are seeing directly.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Aug 14, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I attribute that more
to Fukudome. We saw this massive increase in walks after HE joined the team.
Riot is a player who works hard and continues to play above his level. That’s to be admired, I admit, but I don’t think he’s shown this team how to work hard. Dome showed them how patience works.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah - we don't know who gets the credit for increased hard work -
it may even simply be looming paydays for some of the guys. I don’t like to assume that – just pointing out other possible reasons. The point is that I don’t think we CAN know, but Theriot supporters will claim he’s a sparkplug, etc. and I don’t think you should rule out that possibility.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Aug 14, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think this was mentioned
so if it was, i apologize, but a win tonight will give the cubs a season sweep of the braves….i have a friend who is a braves and i would really like these bragging rights!
by cubswynn on Aug 14, 2008 9:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
One of my upper level bosses
is a Braves fan. I don’t want to rub it in his face though. That’s dangerous.
by daeviant on Aug 14, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The VP of my department is a big braves fan also
so I understand where you are coming from. We talk baseball all the time, it’s hard not to seem like your gloating if you bring it at all.
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on Aug 14, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup - I have a colleague who is a Brewers fan...
that 4 game sweep in Milwaukee was soooooo sweet after it was over. Hard not to gloat/brag, but be prepared to get it back if the Braves sweep us next season (god forbid…)
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I grew up around a lot of Braves fans
And I have to say I am loving the fact that they are not competitive right now. Their fan-base is so spoiled, taking being in the post-season every year for granted. Maybe they will appreciate it a little more when they finally get back there if they have to spend a few years in the wilderness.
by SuperContext on Aug 14, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braves fans are the worst
living here in the south I can contest that they have zero appreciation for baseball and the concept of supporting a team no matter what. I’m stuck with Braves and Cardinals fans……thank goodness for the corner pharmacy.
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yah if their payroll was competitive they would be scary every year
however their fans got spoiled by all the post season births that they took for granted the regular season……..the gate numbers went down and thus their payroll hasn’t kept up with other teams
by cubswynn on Aug 14, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer post-season births myself
that way I don’t have to miss a cubs game while I’m in the obstetrics unit.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Kerri Walsh prepping for post-Olympic career as ML Shortstop
Referring to her and Misty May’s beach volleyball win over Norway on Thursday,
“They’re a scrappy team, but I think we out-scrapped them.”
That’s a lot of scrappy for one quote. My wife thought I was quite strange when i LOL’d our of nowhere when they played the quote on the news this morning…
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 9:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I just did also....
but I live alone so no one to hear me.
"We've had our ups and downs, but as long as you have a reason, something to fall back on and a plan, that's all there is to it," Soto said.
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 14, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i haven't been married that long...
(2.5 years, lived with my wife for ~ 5), but it’s been long enough that i ofter forget that i’m not alone which results in some rather strange situations sometimes.. haha
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't spell scrappy without crap
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Aug 14, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Insightful analysis
Has WGN called you about filling in while Ron is out?
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 14, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From ESPN's recap...
The last time the Cubs won a doubleheader on the road, winning both games by at least 8 runs, came in 1908.
I’m sure we all remember what else hasn’t happened since that year…
There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!
by sanantonecub on Aug 14, 2008 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You know, I just like hearing
that my beloved Cubbies have been doing things this season that they haven’t done in 100 years. The more times they can say that, the more it makes me all warm and tingly inside…
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN mentioned the Cubs?
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Odd.
Did they see the Red Sox in the airport or something?
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN can/will mention the Cubs...
so long as one of the following phrases is also in the same story:
1908
100 years
Bartman
Goat
Curse
Black Cat
etc…
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike and Mike actually ran through
almost that entire list this AM. It was maddening.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
You gotta think anyone watching a sports show is pretty cognizant of those facts.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is a function of constant coverage
Take Mike and Mike as an example. I generally like them, but they are on from 5:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m., five days a week. There just simply isn’t enough going on in sports to fill that much time with anything actually insightful or relevant. Sure, everyone already knows all the “Cubs curse” crap, but its something you can milk to fill up that air time.
by SuperContext on Aug 14, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Little bit OT: Formatting Guide
I like it.
"We've had our ups and downs, but as long as you have a reason, something to fall back on and a plan, that's all there is to it," Soto said.
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 14, 2008 9:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Glad you found it.
The SBN tech folks are always working to make the site better.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where is it? I couldn't find it.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's on the "POST A COMMENT" box...
… but only the NEW comment posting box, not any reply box.
A number of us have asked SBN to put it on ALL the comment boxes.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From somebody that saw more of the post game comments
They are talking on the radio about Soriano asking his pitchers to stand up for him. Is this just people throwing something out there, or is there a comment that I missed about maybe Lilly hitting a Braves player today?
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on Aug 14, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't want to get into a beaming war....
Especially with teams that have nothing to lose
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds very futuristic
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lilly stood up for Soriano last year in ATL
and got kicked out in the first inning for plunking Renteria in retaliation. Renteria, in turn, cold cocked Fontenot (although it was more of a forearm shiver) as he was sliding into 2b after taking his base.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano said
“We have pitchers that can throw at their guys” after game 1…Lilly is the kind of guy who would do that- just look at last year when he was ejected in the 1st inning! A lot of talk I heard this morning was that while it might not be worth it to risk losing a guy, maybe you need to show the rest of the league that you aren’t going to tolerate your star player, especially someone just off the DL, being thrown at. Not saying I agree with it, it’s just what I heard…
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if Lilly gets thrown out of the game
for trying to bean someone, I’m going to be VERY upset.
We’re here to win games, not have gang wars.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know if he will try to bean someone (i HOPE he does not)
but what if he simply wants to work inside, or a pitch gets away? is he gone?
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, when Gagne threw at Edmonds
he got tossed. Was that on purpose, or is Gagne just that bad?
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha i think Gagne is bad
BECAUSE he tried to hit edmonds like 4 times and could not…
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Line up a syringe and he will nail it every time.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Many said Edmonds look at the end was one of anger.
I took it as, “Really? Four tries and you couldn’t hit me? Really?”
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was
“whew. Now I get to not have to stand here in front of Mr. Erratic”.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lilly can just scowl at them.
If looks could kill a lot of batters Lilly pitches to would be dead. I just love his " I am ALWAYS pissed
off" look when playing.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 14, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need to hit anyone,
but maybe you should knock a guy down. At some point, you have to start protecting you players, for safety’s sake. I don’t want to see a beanball war, or ejections and suspensions, but I wouldn’t mind seeing a Braves player get the back of jersey dirty today.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would probably still lead to an ejection...
…As I suspect both Managers and possibly both benches will be warned before the first pitch tonight…
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With this umpiring crew
that’s probably a good assumption. West, Bucknor, Hickox, and Rapuano have no patience for any tomfoolery.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
get a big lead,,,get 2 outs in the 9th
and then someone needs to take it in the ribs….
I'm a reader not a poster, but I'm also a poster so don't get any ideas.
by cozmotaylor123 on Aug 14, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's kind of the jist I was getting...
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no need to incite a beanball war
that’s only going to get our pitchers suspended at a time when we need them.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HOWRY!
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we dont play ATL again
that’s why we wait for the bottom of the 9th
the pink hat guy is my father
by joeschmitt on Aug 14, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To what gain?
The best possible outcome of hitting someone with a fastball as we’re loading the team bus is that we look like a bunch of classless cowards.
The worst outcome? ATL charges the mound, suspensions get thrown down, and someone stands the chance of getting hurt.
by Shawon O Meter on Aug 14, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we're going to talk about showboating
that the team doesn’t need. how about Edmonds antics on his “diving” catch? Do we really need our 38 YO, achy-breaky CF unnecessarily flopping around the OF? No, we don’t. But no critcism of that act. Nope, not for Jimmy Ballgame.
What Soriano did was stupid, okay. No question, but in his defense, even Pat Hughes called it a HR on the radio. The ball dies in the air at the field. It’s uncanny. Ramirez drive to CF last night with the bags packed is gone anywhere else. Soriano probably felt it was gone. Had good reason to. It looked gone. You want your guys to run out every play, but the fact is, this is what Soriano does. You live with the bad, because the good he provides far outweighs the bad. And despite telephone tough guy routines like this:
This isn’t the first time Soriano has done this — but it had better be the last.
There’s not a damn thing any one of us can do about, so it’s kind of silly to get so exasperated by it. Let it go. The Cubs won their 7th consecutive road game. No need for pseudo-toughguy posturing when the matter is out of our hands and the player has already apologized. Save the badass poseur routine. It’s trite and silly.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Edmonds doesn't lay out to make a catch
everyone sacrifices him and demands a younger CFer who can field. He’s damned either way.
But Soriano? He watched his double turn into a single. Literally. And saying “this is what Soriano does” or claiming he’s not the only who does it excuses the fact that it’s wrong. True, last night it didn’t hurt us, but I fear the day when antics like that, from any Cub player, costs us a big game.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong.
Edmonds didn’t need to lay out to make that catch. That’s my point. Secondly, Soriano is damned either way, too. It doesn’t matter what that guy does, fans jump his ass. It’s silly and I suspect that in most cases, the reason fans dislike Soriano has little, if anything to do with baseball.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is saying they dislike Soriano
Edmonds too has an ego. One reason we did not like him when he was a red bird. This is a tem that has a real chance of winning a world series. Plays that occured against the ’08 Braves will not hurt us. I fear play like that in the ’08 WS against a team like the Angels. They have a stingy pitching staff. Each play, each out will be vital.
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, for instance
if we had a player who made lots of unnecessary outs on the basepaths, that would be bad right? Because we do: Ryan Theriot. He made another yesterday. But we’re not talking about that. We’re criticizing a player for a play that did not even result in an out. He got a hit, jut not the one he should’ve. You can rationalize it however you want, but there’s blatant double standard with players like Soriano and Ramirez, and players like Theriot, and Edmonds.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're kidding, right?
When Lee was in his DP streak there were people claiming it was Theriot’s fault for only hitting singles ahead of him.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As true as that may be,
Soriano and Ramirez, in particular are subject to critcism no matter what they do, while Theriot has a legion of apologists that find no fault in his habitual basepath tomfoolerly.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Techincal balk
Two “tomfoolerlys” in one thread.
The umpires each advance a base.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
woohoo!
I have $5 bet on the Umps to win this game.
Umps 2 Cubs 0 Braves 0!
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i took the Over...
on technical balks for today… Over/Under at 3.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The home plate ump
will SURELY hit for the cycle…and then will get drilled for ADMIRING a long single…the drilling by the pitcher will lead to a technical balk.
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
a technical balk on the Ump. He gets docked on call.
I do believe that’s the first penalty ON AN UMP for the whole season. Da Bard must be so proud.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just trying to live up to his expectations...
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano and Ramirez are the leaders
They get paid very well to lead this team. They need to set the example.
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, Lord.
They lead the team in most offensive categories. Ramirez has worked tirelssly to improve his defense and baserunning. Soriano plays hurt to the point that he’s criticized for it. They do, in fact, lead by example. It’s just not the Ecksteinian, scrapalicious example you want them to lead by.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right
Let’s start a “Harlem Globetrotter” team of baseball
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the dictionary under "non sequitur"
it says “see: cake”
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am far from a Theriot apologist
nor am I excusing his baserunning fubars. I just think it’s unfair to excuse Soriano on the basis that Theriot makes mistakes too.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you'd read my post,
I said I wasn’t excusing Soriano. All I am saying is let’s give equally harmful things equal treatment. Soriano gets called out in Al’s recap, but nary a mention of yet another boneheaded baserunning play but Theriot.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, still, Theriot made a mistake.
A mistake that he needs to learn from, and probably should have learned before, but a mistake nonetheless. In fact, people here crucify Theriot when he doesn’t attempt to steal.
Soriano didn’t make a mistake, he showboated.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Edmonds showboated.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of em do.
All it gets is a, “Gee, I wish he wouldn’t do that” when the ball sails over the fence. The thing is, Fonzie’s ball didn’t sail over the fence. He’s the one who got caught and ends up getting made an example of for the entire league.
Look at Reed Johnson’s fist in the air as he ran to first. Do it like that.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he didn't.
He made a diving catch. I don’t see that as “showboating”. Not sure why you do. He made a dive in the execution of a play. Soriano stood at the plate admiring what he THOUGHT was a home run.
Not sure why you can’t see the difference.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A diving catch COULD be showboating
Robin Yount, last out of Juan Nieves’ no-hitter, for example.
And Yount was ordinarily no showboat, but that was bad.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think that was showboating too?
Yount doesn’t dive, that catch doesn’t get made, Nieves doesn’t get his no-hitter.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hang on, I wasn't accusing Edmonds of anything
So please don’t make me part of that.
If I recall correctly, Yount has admitted that he didn’t need to dive.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recall hearing that.
I’ve seen the tape of that play a number of times. Looked like he needed to dive to me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll see if I can find it
I might be mistaken. I have heard several Brewers fans say that he didn’t have to, for what it’s worth.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't need to dive, Al.
He’s done this his whole career, and if he’d done it versus the Cubs, I don’t doubt for one second you’d have a different opinion. He’s a showoff, just now, he’s our showff and therefore somehow not subject to the same critcism that Soriano is. Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMM.
And how do you know what Soriano thought? Are you so clairvoyant that you can access the mind-states of particular players?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, what?
So you’re claiming Soriano thought it was something other than a homerun. That makes it WORSE.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what he thought.
I have absolutely no idea. It appeared he wasn’t thinking, given what happened.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he went through the same steps
he always does with a homerun.
-stand straight
-slow walk
-toss bat
-trot
I bet if you asked him what he was thinking he’d say he thought it was gone.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also does that when he flies out.
So maybe he thought, given the lack of carry in the park, that it was an out. Like I said, who knows.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still doesn't excuse it.
He doesn’t know that the fielder won’t trip. You run it out. That’s baseball.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with that.
But my point still stands: there’s no way to tell what he was thinking there.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why did he apologize
Because it’s simply SOP after you’re manager calls you out or maybe to appease the fans that apparently have absolutely no insight to what you’re thinking at anytime?
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did what he was told to do by his manager.
Period.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You rarely come here any more.
And when you do, it’s strictly to be combative and blast me. You have your opinion, I have mine. But when you post, you say I’m “wrong”.
I say you’re wrong. Edmonds doesn’t dive, that catch doesn’t get made.
If Edmonds stood at the plate and watched a ball hit the wall instead of going out and he wound up on first base, I’d have said the same thing about him that I did about Soriano.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me where I said you were wrong.
I stated my opinion, which was GASP contrary to yours. And as for my lack of attendance, and my tendency to put you on blast, perhaps a bit of introspection on your part would provide you an explanation for that. I’m sorry that you’re not used to having your opinions challenged, and if you’d wish me to go away so that it doesn’t ahppen any more, feel free to tell me so. I’ll go away, you can delete my account, and we’ll be rid of one another.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And also, Edmonds is
just as big a homerun gazer as Soriano. Hell, last week against the Cards, he flipped his bat towards the Cardinal dugout.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which was AWESOME
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
I don’t like either, but believe both should be called on it or have it left alone.
So, if you thought Ed’s flip was awesome, you were okay with Soriano staring?
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't exactly serious...
but, still, different circumstances due to Edmonds harsh departure from the Cards organiazation.
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Soriano's wasn't a HR
He admired a long single.
If Edmonds’ ball didn’t clear the wall, we’d be blasting him, too, for premature celebration.
"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."
by flachimesa on Aug 14, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, Edmonds' showboating is AWESOME
while Soriano’s is potentially costly?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just for the record
I havent heard ANYONE criticize Z’s potential “showboating” (by your all’s definition) when he screams to the sky and pumps his arms and “shows-up” a batter after an inning-ending K…how is that any different from staring down a homerun?
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know there have
been many people outraged by Z and his antics.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
when?
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not this year
but here on BCB, 2006 & 2007. Sorry, don’t have time to find the link.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
when he breaks bats
over his knee.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cos Z rules.
No, but, in fairness, he gets just as animated and frustrated at himself for doing bad as he does for doing good. Plus, he’s not staring down the batter; it’s more about him doing good for himself and his team than embarassing the opposition.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, yes.
Edmonds’ was already out of the park. In addition, neither La Russa nor Looper seemed upset or inferred the batflip was directed at the team.
Edmonds was frustrated at the Cardinal organization and took out his frustration, admittingly in the wrong fashion. But, per your argument above, there’s no way to know what Edmonds was thinking.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Showboating is showboating.
You can’t trash one guy for doing it and applaud another. You can’t have it both ways.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor can you say
you don’t know what Soriano was thinking but knew Edmonds intentions.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know Edmonds intentions
and never stated as much. Maybe Edmonds didn’t so it intentionally. Maybe the bat just bounced that way. Maybe he took that extra bounce on the back foot to regain his balance. It’s completely plausible it wasn’t meant to show off. Sure. Bu my point stands: you can trash one guy for doing and applaud another.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not excusing Edmonds for standing at the plate.
But, you brought up Edmonds not for that but his “showboating” catch. And, his showboating at the plate didn’t cost us anything. Notice that Fonzie hasn’t ever gotten near this slack when he’s done it for a homerun or reached second.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He gets it from Brenly
when he hits HR, too.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As he should.
I want it stop altogether. For every player. Again, I say, look at Reed Johnson. Follow his example.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the catch by Edmonds
suppose he gets injured on a play like that? Wouldn’t that hurt the team? What Soriano did yesterday didn’t cost the tea, either. No outs were recorded on the play.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But a double play could have very well followed.
And if Edmonds, or anyone, doesn’t layout and give his all he’d be sacrificed.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop shifting the goalposts.
The dubious rhetorical tactics around here are maddening.
Edmonds didn’t need to do what he did, just as Soriano didn’t need to do what he did. Both were potentially costly, but neither turned out to be actually costly. Once again, it’s very simple: if you’re going to call out one player for engaging in potentially costly showboating behavoir, you need to call out all the players that engage in potentially costly, showboating behavoirs, and that includes unnecessary dives as much as staring a non-HR’s.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's just say that...
… if Edmonds had done exactly what Soriano did — stood at the plate admiring a HR which turned out NOT to be one — I’d have said the same thing.
Let’s agree to disagree on whether yesterday’s catch was an “unnecessary” dive.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying you'd have noted
that Edmonds had a history of showboating, and that “it had better be the last” time it happened?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you going to be here just to be argumentative?
Or would you rather go back to that other site and trash me there?
Your choice.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What other site?
And where have I trashed you? Now who’s putting words in people’s mouth? You made arguments I consider to be flawed. I responded as such. If that’s trashing, then so be it.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a philosopher
And that’s what philosphers do: make arguments and point out flaws in arguments.
Nothing wrong with that; it’s in pursuit of the truth.
Why make it personal, though, Al?
by John Q Freejazz on Aug 14, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*you can't trash one guy for it and praise another.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds didn't 'dive'
in his usual way yesterday. That was a stretch with the tuck and roll to keep from getting hurt. He didn’t lay out. No showboating IMO.
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
two things.
Theriot is bashed when he’s caught stealing, and Soriano’s showboating led to a mistake. He should have been on second. It wound up not mattering, but obviously could have.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
he showboated mistakenly. If that had been out, no one would be complaining.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about a play on the basepaths last night!
Anyone else like D-Lee’s slide into home. Fabulous!
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely brilliant.
All that was missing was Lee stamping on the catcher’s mask.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That x was supposed to be PWN'D!
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
I was washing dishes. I missed it.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SCs been all over it.
Really giving it up for Lee, as the kids say.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kids
and their hair and their music…
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened?
I missed it.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee heading home
and the throw beats him by a good five paces. He slides to his right as the catcher seemingly, in his turn towards third, loses place of where he is. He rides high on the plate and Derrek slides his hand around and under the glove to be safe. It was beautiful.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I noticed that last year — Lee is VERY good at sliding around the catcher and slapping the back of the plate.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
After seeing the replay again this morning, I am still impressed
And the fact that the ump let the play play-out was great because the ball beat him there by a mile.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was nice.
Theriot also had a nice slide on his steal of second, too.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could have also resulted in an injury, though
That wouldn’t be so good. I’m not justifying Edmonds (or criticizing him). This isn’t a commentary on Theriot. Getting drilled because the opposition is pissed, or getting a teammate drilled, is detrimental to the team.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were pissed at the SB attempt,
not the HR stare. They’d have to half dumb to be pissed that Sori turned a double into a single. The SB attempt when the Cubs were up six runs pissed them off. Not that it matters, as the Braves have been throwing at Soriano as matter of course for the past two seasons.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's why they were pissed, then the are stupid
Because it was a wild pitch. I agree with not running up by 5 late, but you don’t stop playing the game, either.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He tried the pitch before to steal but the ball was fouled off
the ball was the Past Ball where he advanced.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Dave Otto was really hot on the radio about it, too.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Point. Everyone is forcusing on the hit. It was the
SB that prompted the head shot.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it was the fact that he was running
that ticked everyone off.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever. They were pissed off because they
perceived that we were running up the score. Teams have come back from huge deficits this year. Until the other team agrees to stop trying to score, I say keep piling on runs. Until then, screw em.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, if that's why they were pissed, they're stupid
See above…
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think they were just
tired of getting their asses handed to them. Nobody likes that and sometimes players do stupid things when they are getting their butts kicked.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be
If that’s what it was, though, I’d almost expect an apology from Cox. He went off on Fick in the NLDS in 2003 when Fick tried to take Karros’ arm off, then apologized to the Cubs.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Cox is old school but he's not stupid. I don't
recall him having a history of drilling players like TLR.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They've thrown at Soriano
for two straight season, in almost every series.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’re consistent?
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just about.
Dave Otto and Kasper both broke it down yesterday during the game.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the one earlier this year was intentional?
I didn’t.
Last year certainly was, though.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure.
I lean towards it being accidental, but they’ve been doing for some time now. I call it accidental for now, but I’m just not sure.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it was...
The Braves approach is to throw him inside because he’s all over the plate. I think the one from Bennet was obviously in but just got away.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Likely true.
Although no other team seems to have a problem getting Sori out with taking shits at him, plus it’s not as if Sori isn’t hitting Braves pitching anyway.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, if a pitcher takes
a shit at me, he’s going to get me out, too. I don’t want any part of that!
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do not want to see that
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
I would probably request a pinch hitter:)
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you’re getting at. I wouldn’t say that Theriot and Edmonds are not called out on BCB, but on different things. Theriot is given credit for hustling and trying, but discredited for, and I quote “being bad at baseball.”
I gather you are inferring a racial component to the criticism, I’m not sure. Howry, Edmonds, Theriot, and Marquis have all been hammered as much as Lee and Soriano this year. My theory is that the criticism against Lee, Soriano and Marquis has all been salary based. He makes 100x, therefore he is not allowed any latitude.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a bit of both, IMO.
And I find each reprehensible.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very guilty of adjusting my
demands on a player to their contract and expect significantly more from Ramirez, Soriano, Lee and Zambrano than I do anyone else. I give Theriot some leeway as he doesn’t take up much salary.
Guys making $10M plus per season occupy cap space that could sign 2 to three role players. Therefore, they better be a huge upgrade over a role player.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, and Zambrano
are MASSIVE upgrades over role players. Nothing any athlete ever does can justify their exorbitant paychecks, and that’s a standard to which we need to stop holding these athletes.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree, just confessing
the baseline for my own bias.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maiora premunt
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Double Standard
Theriot not being bashed on BCB? Unpossible. Where’ve you been GV? Perhaps you missed the Theriot Sucks Fanpost that had this blog up in flames. And when has Rami been bashed recently, if at all this year, for his lack of hustle or trying? You mentioned it down below that, in fact, Rami has worked tirelessly to improve both his defense and his baserunning and I think he’s been close to flawless at both. As far as Sori, my concern has nothing to do w/ the money he makes, car he drives, or entourage he parties with. It’s the fact that his antics (if you want to call them that) may cost us during a time when it matters. I’m not asking for a dead sprint out of the box, perhaps maybe just a skip in the direction of 1B?
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to have ask you to present the argument I make
not the ones you infer. I never said he’s not bashed here. i said he’s not questioned in the same manner as Soriano and Ramirez are, and, if you read the papers, and other Cubs blogs, you’ll see that bears out my claims.
I
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not questioned in the same manner....
I’d say that Theriot gets it worse than anyone here and duly so. And again w/ Ramirez, I can’t remember the last time Rami was questioned here, aside from some random trolls, about his hustling or defense. If anything he’s been, aside from Sori, been one of the most highly praised here on BCB. See the recent FanPost that polled us for the team’s MVP, where last I checked Sori was at 2 behind Dempster.
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the subject of Edmonds,
I’m guessing the fans at “el birdos” were aghast at Jimmy Hollywood flipping the bat at the dugout. Some players are that way (chirpy, showboaty, etc.).
Some of the greatest power hitters in recent history have admired their shots and come up short. Think of how many times Sosa broke out the hop to have the ball fall on the warning track.
Not saying it’s right, just sayin.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was referring to Edmonds in general
(didn’t see either game yesterday).
I, for one, don’t jump on Fonzie for anything. He has his quirks, I understand that. But when his catch-hop costs a game on the final out in the ninth, or his homerun turns into a single, that’s kind of a signal that things need to change.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed NA
However, this is all getting blown out of proportion IMO. It seems as if, in some cases, you criticize a player, whoever it may be, they’re all of a sudden at the top of your S*** List. Look, to me this is something Sori can learn from, although that’s not my biggest concern. My biggest concern is Sori indirectly puts the team (i.e. Lilly, in this case) in a vulnerable position. Does Lilly go old school on some rookie’s ass and plunk him or rely on our bats to speak for themselves. Who Knows?
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Go out there, kick the Braves ass again, move on. No need for retaliation.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at both games
It was truly wrigley south again. There had to be 2 dozen white flags at the end of the games. Multiple braves fans told me how much they enjoy the cubs fans. It was a great atmosphere and a great showing by our boys. Let’s keep this going. I recommend anybody who has never been to go. There is really nothing special about the stadium but it’s really cheap and a good time.
by zjb on Aug 14, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
we should have Howry plunk a Braves batter, so that he gets suspended for like 5 games.
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know Lou and the team
will handle it, if they feel it needs to be handled. i just don’t want our guys to get suspended, that’s all i’m saying :)
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
But I also don’t want Soriano (or anyone else) to get hit and get hurt at any point the rest of the season.
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
The braves played he hits charges the mound, and he — oh, i don’t know — sprains a pinky and spends a couple of weeks on the DL
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Lou tells Howry to plunk the first batter
that’s when he goes up and unintentionally throws a nine-pitch three-strikeout inning.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The top 5 NL Central teams
have won 20 straight games. Our division’s not as bad as you thought, ESPN, huh?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Aug 14, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ESPN's all about manufacturing storylines....
it’s not really hard news anymore.. it’s all hype. it’s gotten as bad as the network news, it seems.
by DWChaney on Aug 14, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"It had better not happen again"
Or what? What would happen?
by lamentir on Aug 14, 2008 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Why the faux-badass act? It will happen again. I guarantee it, and guess what any one of will be able to do? Not a damn thing.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yeah?
Well, if it happens again, I’m going to watch the rest of the game. THAT’LL teach him.
So there!
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Al
simply espousing his feelings and ideas about the team and its players here? Isn’t that what any of us really are doing? And isn’t that what discussion, communication, and a blog are all about? Al’s statement, as all of ours in the whole grand scheme of things as far as anything we say making any different whatsoever, is purely rhetorical. It’s not a “faux-badass act”. It’s Al showing his emotions and his displeasure at that moment, as any writer with an idea in his or her head might do.
So, my advice here would be to chill and enjoy. What could be better at this point in the season than the Cubs being in first and riding high?
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are better, more elegant ways
to make a point than “X had better not happen, or else.”
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He actually said,
“This isn’t the first time Soriano has done this — but it had better be the last.” Not “or else.”
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're quibbling semantics.
The spirit, if not the letter of both statements is the same.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the latter invokes a sense of punishment if not followed.
Regardless, as Kegler points out, this is Al’s blog, and his opinion is Fonzie needs to stop showboating. You disagree, and that’s what makes this blog great: opinions, and the ability to discuss them reasonably.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"it had better be the last"
carries the same punitive connotations, perhaps just a bit more implicitly, rather than the explicit manner in which their are conveyed by “or else” types of statements.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Al was just expressing the frustration
he and many others have. We caught a break in that no harm came from it (Dome’s walk in fact put Sori on second) but I for one don’t want it hurting us in the future, regardless of who’s showboating it is.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's one example of a much better way yot make the same point.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you've made a career here today...
… out of putting words in my mouth that weren’t there. I suggest you stop.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me where that happened.
Where did I once mis-characterize what you said? You’re lying, Al, just make a point in front of your minions.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are Legion!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 14, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone woke up on the wrong side of this year....
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know.
I’m not lying. gary varsho has attempted to characterize my statement “it had better not happen again” as some sort of threat. It is nothing of the sort. It is typical of him and the other people who post at that other site, who have made a career of sitting on the computer all day to bash me.
Frankly, I’m tired of it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al I don't know what site you mean.
And frankly, you’re really tossing on hell of fit hear to garner support.
I explained earlier that what you said contained a punitive implication, because it does. I think when fans say that sort of thing, it’s just silly. I said as much. i never put any words in your mouth, so stop saying I did. It’s crude, dubious rhetorical device.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
MOVE ON. Please? Baseball anyone?
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What was the point of that?
It’s not like this is a gameday thread. I don’t know why it’s not possible to discuss conflicting ideas on here when it has something to do with this site and (gasp) not baseball.
"Yes it's true. Everyone knows that I've pitched. I make sure of that. I have nine different pitches, all of which are awesome. I have a 0.00 ERA, got one out, throwing all knuckleballs. I don't remember who I faced -- some dude from Ole Miss." - Ryan Theriot
by NittanyCub on Aug 14, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is that
sometimes people git tired of watching others carry on a combative nature for seemingly the sake of being combative…It can get old, fast…Especially when it seems like someone is here to bash or pick a fight…IMHO.
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pay the man Shirley!
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why I left the conversation.
It was devolving into a “get the last word” fight with Gary and I rehashing the same points. He wasn’t going to change my opinion and I wasn’t going to change his.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know very well what site I'm talking about.
You’re a knowledgeable baseball fan, and at one time I enjoyed your participation here. But recently, you’ve come here only to slam me, and I have indeed seen you and others slam me at that other site. (No, I won’t dignify it with naming it nor linking it.)
I meant nothing of the sort, no punitive implication. Thus you saying I did, was putting words in my mouth, no, not specific words, but an “implication”, since that seems to be a favorite word of yours today.
If you want to participate in the discussion here you’re welcome to. If you’re here just to bash me, go away.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I spoke about the statement you made,
not you. Perhaps you should let your ego down and not take things so personally. I’m not here to bash anyone, but if someone says something i see as flawed, or that I don’t agree with, I’m going to say so. I’m sick of you accusing me of things I haven’t done. I’m not trying get you to surreptitiously link to any blog. And I really don’t know what blog you’re talking about, because I can think of 3-4 Cubs blogs where I read and/or comment where you are regularly bashed. I am participating Al, just like you say I can, but I’m not just going to fall in line. I didn’t feel like you were fair in your recap, and I said so, if that’s bashing you, then, so be it. You might as well ban me or ask me, here and now, to leave, because the next time it happens, I’m going to call you on it.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's talking about
that blog Maddog came from.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be, but like I said
It could be any number of them
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As noted somewhere else in this thread...
… you took a rhetorical statement literally. That really isn’t fair, now is it?
You know very well which site I was talking about.
You can criticize what I say — I’m not saying I should be immune to that or not allow it. However, when you take a statement out of context, that’s truly unfair.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please understand
That I have explained myself thoroughly here. It’s nice that Kegler sailed in showed you an argument, and he was right to nail me on that. Perhaps I did read too much into what you said, but it still doesn’t speak to the fact that I find these sorts of statements in general to be silly things to say. None of us want to see Soriano make that mistake again, but there’s a better way to say it than “it better be the last.” You know that, Al.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had you said that last sentence...
None of us want to see Soriano make that mistake again, but there’s a better way to say it than "it better be the last."
in the first place, there would probably be 150 fewer comments in this thread.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have said quite nearly that exact thing
at least three separate times. I have repeated that I simply felt there was a better way to say what you said. I don’t see why my saying it just now should be any different.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't trash gary
He is questioning a statement that he thinks is false. Nothing wrong with that.
"Yes it's true. Everyone knows that I've pitched. I make sure of that. I have nine different pitches, all of which are awesome. I have a 0.00 ERA, got one out, throwing all knuckleballs. I don't remember who I faced -- some dude from Ole Miss." - Ryan Theriot
by NittanyCub on Aug 14, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What false statement was that?
He’s welcome to express his own opinion, but he seems to be enjoying bashing me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different viewpoints
I haven’t seen gary “bashing” you before, and I don’t even think he’s doing it now. If it was anyone else who said the same thing, I’m pretty sure he would’ve criticized the other as well.
But this is your site, and I haven’t looked at much conversations between you and gary.
"Yes it's true. Everyone knows that I've pitched. I make sure of that. I have nine different pitches, all of which are awesome. I have a 0.00 ERA, got one out, throwing all knuckleballs. I don't remember who I faced -- some dude from Ole Miss." - Ryan Theriot
by NittanyCub on Aug 14, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
What GV is doing is taking a rhetorical statement, example of which just about every human being makes on a daily basis, and considering it literally. It’s really an absurd pre-occupation with Al and this site. Al’s statement isn’t true or false. It’s an opinion not meant to be taken literally. But it seems that’s just too complex for the kids around here. My gosh…..
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you!
This is what I’ve been trying to say, but failing to accomplish. You are exactly correct.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're correct that
Al’s statement isn’t true or false and that I may be reading to much into it, but I think you’ve misconstrued my point. What I’m saying these types of statements are silly things for sports fans to say, and maybe saying better gets the point across better.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dare To Be Silly!
"Sometimes I feel like as a Cubs fan if I’m not worrying about something, I’m not doing it right." - HalfBlindCubbieGirl
by CaliCub on Aug 14, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont understand this
There are people that I dont agree with or like, I do my best to stay away from them. Whether in real life or online.
If someone doesnt like Al’s opinion than why come here just to pick fights?
I mean this in general. I see on myspace also.
Why waste time on the computer picking on someone else blog? How much time do these people have that much time on their hands?
"We've had our ups and downs, but as long as you have a reason, something to fall back on and a plan, that's all there is to it," Soto said.
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 14, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hyperbole.
A valuable and oft-used rhetorical device. What’s to disagree with?
It’s like this:
Bob says, “Man, if that happens again he’s gonna get it!”
Friend says, “Get what?”
Bob has two options how to answer his friend, either laugh it off with a, “oh, you know what I mean, man” or to go over the top even further, into the realm of satirization (even of himself), by stating, “Then I’m going to run down their, jump into the dugout, do some frickin’ karate moves on Lou and Larry, grab Sori by the balls and yell, ’Let’s see you hop now, muthaf$er!’”
Or something similar….
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it was a little over the top.
You could have said so in a less confrontational way. I note that you have made dozens of comments in this thread after having been basically gone from posting for some time.
That’s why it appeared to me that you were just here to bash me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't like
how Al states his opinions there is an easy solution. Leave.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cmon, guys
Gary’s not a troll.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
troll wasn't the
word I was going to use. enough is enough
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's no Blue Mike either.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally agreed
"We've had our ups and downs, but as long as you have a reason, something to fall back on and a plan, that's all there is to it," Soto said.
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 14, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't say he was
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then he's a valued member of the community
who sometimes disagrees with Al.
I don’t want him to leave, he just got back!
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kegler coming through again.
I bow to your superior posting ability.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
All in a days’ work, my man. Don’t tell my boss though. As far as anyone knows, I’ve been reviewing test documentation all damn day! One more hour to go.
I’m just trying to keep some peace; I don’t typically stick up for Al. I figure it’s his blog, he’ll handle it. But it’s been one of those endless torrents of posts around the same damn tree all day, and well, I’m goin’ nuts over here!
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just seems you've just been on today
succinctly phrasing what everyone else has had trouble with.
I suspect you’ll go 0-4 tomorrow to make up for it.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt
I’ll actually go 1-5, and my one hit will be like this:
I’ll jack a ball to deep left center, and I’ll stand gazing at it, watching cameras flashing in the stadium, everyone capturing my moment of glory. But then, to my horror, it’ll hit the bottom of the wall and I’ll quickly stumble my way to 1st. Rather than hanging my head though, I’ll immediately steal 2B. Then I’ll get a big lead as I eye 3B, and that’s when I’ll get picked off, even though I had more than enough time to get back. 3B just looked so close and pristine and virginal. I had to have it. It’ll just be one of those days.
The best thing though is that my team STILL WON THE DAMN GAME!
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Len Kasper's gotta use that one:
“And Soriano steals third! Cubs down one run in the ninth, and Fonzie stands a mere ninety feet away on the most virginal of all the bases!”
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ain't nobody
taking advantage of third. It’s saving itself.
For Soto.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So am I
"We've had our ups and downs, but as long as you have a reason, something to fall back on and a plan, that's all there is to it," Soto said.
by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 14, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But you’re forgetting that this is a blog, an informal soapbox/meeting place of ideas, not high art. I’m all for eloquence myself, but I’ll open a novel or read a few poems for that. If something elegant gets written around here or anywhere else, I enjoy it for the unexpected moment that it is.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
eloquence =/= elegance.
One is a question of word choice, the other is a question of tone and style.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for truly
fine writing, you need both. That’s why I mention both in my post. My statement still stands, but if you want to argue terminology or other literary/artistic definitions, by all means, do.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And my point is that this "it had better be the last"
utilized neither. There was a better way to make that point.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, I care.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then you have too
much time on your hands. This shit gets old fast.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What "shit," praytell?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your need to be
right.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should've used the word 'correct'
as ‘right’ indicates some sort of placement blah blah blah blah….
=)
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah well
just another example of many things I do wrong.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just anticipating
the retort. Is it gametime yet?
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame Theriot
Go All In and Enjoy The Ride.
by Jayo525 on Aug 14, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame Felix Heredia
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now HERE is something you and I can agree on!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a problem if everyone here has it, Sue.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs are having
a great season. You would never know it by all the nit picky crap that goes on in here. It just gets old.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
by sue369 on Aug 14, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cmon, you guys...
I know I was relatively crabby last night, but it’s an honest difference of opinion between Al and Gary, and frankly, I miss Gary around here.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
GV, you and I are in the minority that when we challenge a certain opinion, we get blasted.
But you’re right, Soriano may (or will) do that again. I just want to know what is going to “happen.”
by lamentir on Aug 14, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you a hint...
It’s the same thing that happens whenever ANY ML hitter does it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 14, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bears repeating indeed!
I’ve written this before but it bears repeating. Remember each and every one of these games in this special season. We are seeing things that most Cubs fans have never seen before.
From someone who has a Cub fan history going back before the heartbreak year of 1969, savor this. These are the memories we’ll enjoy years from now. Even the “magical year” of 1984 was not like this – I know, I was in the RF bleachers for a lot of it, although there were many truly amazing games that year, and spectacular individual performances. this team is different – something more of a juggernaut. True, we’re not going to run the table – that doesn’t happen. We are, though, heating up again at a time of the year when most Cub teams of the past have been making their offseason vacation plans.
So enjoy every game you see, celebrate those you can’t, and be ready for the shouts of joy in about a month or so when we clinch. Then remember – that’s just the first step.
Oh yeah – I’ll be in a week from Saturday for the Nats. A friend and I got some nice seats and we’re coming down!
by MN exile on Aug 14, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Another thing is
The only way to have followed the 1984 team was via the 5pm or 10pm news, WGN 720 or the newspaper the next day. No Bleed Cubbie Blue or anything like that back then! Imagine the things we’d known about that team had the media and the fans had the venue it has today.
"ROUS's? Rodents of Unusual Size. Don't worry, they don't exist."
http://margaritagirl11.spaces.live.com/
by iluvryno on Aug 14, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could have followed them on WGN TV in 1984...
Almost every game was on that year.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Aug 14, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep... I was there in front of the tv watching the end of the game after school.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Anyone else dissapointed
The TONI KUKOC is not representing Croatia at the Olympics? I mean, I know he is pretty old and all, but…COME ON!
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm more disappointed
Detlef Schrempf is not representing Germany.
by daeviant on Aug 14, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or his mullet... that was a classic.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This season is memorable
But I’m still probably getting ulcers. Milwaukee is making me nervous.
by daeviant on Aug 14, 2008 10:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no kidding
Wish they would drop a game every now and then.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I really shouldn't be nervous
If the Cubs lost the division, they’ll most likely be the wild card. Still, though.
by daeviant on Aug 14, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrote this up above but...
It has to be somewhat deflating though to a Brew team that has won 8 in a row and ONLY
has gained a game. I don’t count the half game because the Cubs will get that back.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha.
Made me think of the old adage about sled dogs and unless you’re the lead, the view never changes.
Sorry folks, parks closed. Moose out front should have told you.
by N Oakley on Aug 14, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or hot dogs in the sausage race
If you’re the lead sausage, the view never changes. Unless you happen to run by Randall Simon.
by daeviant on Aug 14, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How memorable can a season be when we can't even remember ONE game from September of '08
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the year... 2000. In the year... 2000!
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Aug 14, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That 1909 team...
can you imagine being 80-39 on September 2—playing .672 ball—and still being 6.5 out and having virtually no shot at the WS? A 104 win also-ran.
by bison on Aug 14, 2008 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And as good as the Pirates played that year...
… had Johnny Kling not sat out the season in a contract dispute, the Cubs might have beaten them out and won five straight pennants. They did come back and win in 1910.
The 1909 Cubs were 9-13 vs. the Pirates. Reverse that to 13-9 and the Cubs win the pennant.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 14, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds weird
The pirates beat the Cubs…
by daeviant on Aug 14, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I understand
Once upon a time, the Pie Rats were a real baseball team
by SuperContext on Aug 14, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honus Wagner an all
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 14, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some small side plots: Cubs are now 28-30 on the road
Cubs could pull within a game of .500 on the road with a win tonight and then even up by taking the series in FL before returning home.
Cubs are second in the NL with giving up runs 490 (down to 11 and 2nd to LAD) yet first in runs scored 645, Phila is at 588, NYM are 586 and the Brewers are at 570, meaning the Cubs have scored almost 60 more runs than the two NL East teams and 75 more the bashers of Milwaukee.
Cubs have the opportunity to make some hay if they can have a good road trip where they have their top 4 starters going now till Samardzijia rumored to be Sunday’s featured starter.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Aug 14, 2008 11:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marshall will start on Sunday
According to Carrie Muskat, Lou announced after the second game last night that Marshall, not Samardzija will get the start on Sunday:
by John Q Freejazz on Aug 14, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Marshall has proven success as a major league starting pitcher. Samardjiza, as impressive as he’s been in relief thus far in his short stint with the Cubs, was just a couple months ago putting up mediocre lines as a starter in AA. Marshall also has some experience as a swing man.
by John Q Freejazz on Aug 14, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting point raised by Bob Brenly yesterday
He pointed out that Jeff S. is a two-pitch pitcher at this point…the fastball and the splitter. His slider is too inconsistent and needs work. And in Brenly’s opinion determination of whether he is a reliever or a starter in the future hinges on development of his slider.
by MDBNIU on Aug 14, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Howry
Does that mean he’s one pitch away from becoming an effective reliever?
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 14, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a fan of starting Jeff Spellcheck on Sunday
I wish the choice would be Sean Marshall. But it would seem that isn’t going to happen.
by MDBNIU on Aug 14, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marshall is starting Sunday.
Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Aug 14, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday's win...
Also moved the Cubs ahead of the Rays for 2nd best ML record – by a 1/2 game.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Edmonds' outfield play
Like I said yesterday I have come around to be a big fan of Edmonds. Fact is the man still has something in the tank and is delivering. Edmonds has been very good in center field. To suggest he dives for balls as way of showboating is ridiculous. Edmonds is smart enough to know he isn’t a spring chicken and has been plagued with nagging injuries that he has to fight through. Needlessly diving for balls would unduly compromise his health. When he dives for balls he does it because he is trying to make the play.
Hendry needs to work on getting Edmonds and Reed Johnson locked up for 2009. Both are quality assets to this ballclub and an integral part of what this team is doing. Edmonds has enough left to contribute in positive fashion on 2009.
by MDBNIU on Aug 14, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
DO you think there's a chance Jimmy Ballgame hangs
it up if the Cubs win it all?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea
All I know is that Jim Edmonds can still play baseball. I hope he is back in 2009.
by MDBNIU on Aug 14, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not scared that might be 1998 Gary Gaetti all over again?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more year of Edmonds at reasonable contract rate doesn't scare me
No question Edmonds is in the sunset phase of his career. But he can still play this game and be a good ballplayer on this club. Nobody is asking him to be the star of his former glory days. Edmonds and Reed Johnson filling the CF role in 2009 would be a good thing. If something happens to either or both then Hendry can hit the open market for help. Or perhaps Tyler Colvin will progress to the point where he can compete for a job.
by MDBNIU on Aug 14, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Lou can squeeze another
year out of him if he is handled right. You have to rest him on a pretty regular basis cause he will hurt himself a couple of times.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm petrified the Cubs are going to get Gaetti'd by Edmonds.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's moot. I just don't see him here next year.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not...
…Edmonds already has TWICE the sample size GG did in ’98, and has had FAR more success in the past than Gaetti ever had before the Cubs acquired him.
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure why...
A. Edmonds will likely agree to a 1 year deal if he decides to return
B. Edmonds would doubtful command more than $5 million to include incentives
C. Cubs are a deep pocket team and that sort of investment in Edmonds is quite reasonable and risk-balanced in the grand scheme of Cub payroll management
D. Reed Johnson is a heckuva nice 4th outfielder option who will surely be back
by MDBNIU on Aug 14, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also comes at the expense of either
A.) Trading Pie, because resigning Edmonds and retaining Johnson is essentially an admission Pie doesn’t figure in the team’s plans and guts them of trade leverage
B.) Giving Pie a shot at the starting gig, or at least a platoon gig with Johnson, because Edmonds won’t come back to sit the bench.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points.
"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young
by Kegler on Aug 14, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
If Edmonds and Johnson are back, Pie is history.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be very hard to
get anything for him in trade at that point, as well. If the Cubs do indeed mean to resign Edmonds, Pie needs to be moved beforehand, or they won’t get anything close to value for him.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure he has much trade value at this point.
The Cubs have reduced his value by bringing him upsveral times and now leaving him at Iowa this long. It would have been better if they had left him at AAA and he would be an unknown.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad, but true.
Burning that final option year was just dumb. Waiting to move him until after Edmonds is re-signed would be completely stupid. At that point, Pie becomes a AAA insurance policy for and Edmonds injury.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My view is predicated on my well documented bearish opinion of Felix Pie
It my opinion….
A. Felix Pie isn’t major league material
B. The Cub organization has come to same conclusion
For the love of God lets not open up this whole emotional war again. Some of you are very high on Felix Pie while I am not. Obviously basis of my opinion for Jim Edmonds in 2009 is influenced by opinion on Pie. We can agree to disagree.
by MDBNIU on Aug 14, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's true, they need to trade him before they re-sign Edmonds.
A failure to do so means they get nothing in return.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Sitting him in Iowa for another year is the worst of both worlds.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll have to see how it plays out...
That said, I doubt that Felix Pie has wondrous trade value at this stage.
This thing could play out in several directions.
by MDBNIU on Aug 14, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't say wondrous
but definitely he does have some trade value… he was at least rumored to be in discussion around the deadline…
supposedly he was the sticking point in an Ibanez trade with the M’s — not that the trade made any sense to begin with, so I guess take it with a grain of salt.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A grain of salt is right. If you were a GM
would you give much for him? He couldn’t make it with this team when they had no CF at all. Now he can’t beat out a couple of castoffs. Granted, Reed and JimEd have ahde stellar years, but it doesn’t bode well when one of your home grown prospects can’t beat out players that are not wanted by other organizations.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they need to bring him back up
so that he can prove himself. Which he never really got the chance to do.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we can hope for..
the division being comfortably in control some time through september, and he’ll be able to get a decent look throughout the OF, allowing us to rest Sori, Dome, Reed and Edmonds amply prior to the start of the Postseason.
Like I said, he has talent. We’ll see if he can convert that into big league success, but that’s not going to happen unless he plays.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends...
He didn’t make this team because he did fit Lou’s MO, or perhaps because of something behind the scenes — but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have talent.
If I’m the GM for a big-market team, looking for an everyday CF, then no he probably doesn’t have a whole lot of value to me. But if I’m looking for a cheap 4th or 5th outfielder, or I’m looking for a cheap everyday option whose under control for the next several years, then yes he does have value to me.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Aug 14, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Either way, the Cubs are not dealing
from a position of strength because of the way they have handled him. If they are truly planning on moving him, they should leave him at AAA so he won’t be exposed anymore.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
May as well keep Pie
As insurance for Edmonds or as our CF in 2 years, or whenever Ballgame runs out of gas. Whats the rush in trading Pie?
Reed Ballgame - best CF in the MLB
by californiachicagoan on Aug 14, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, maybe not.
There’s a calculated gamble here: if Pie realyl has installed a new, more contact friendly swing, then you bring him up in Spetember, he performs well, and you max out on his value. OTOH, if you bring him up, and he flops, then he likely kills any value. It’s a big risk.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the point. If the Cubs are in the thick
of it with the Brewers, he won’t see enough playing time to prove his worth and you’ve blown any chance of getting anything for him. If the Cubs have a big enough lead to give him some quality AB’s, he might show something against the weak pitching they will probably see in September.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
He and the Cubs have put themselves in quite a pickle.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Aug 14, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, a dill one at that.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless Pie is the backup incase Edmonds gets hurt...
which would be very likely.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 14, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be, too.
Especially if they trade Pie.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 14, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he history if he gets a championship.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a competitor
And if he can still hack it, isn’t 2 championships better than one?
by dr stabbingworth on Aug 14, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's already got one.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 14, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
It might be nice to end a great career on such a high note, but on the other hand, if you can have an OPS of over .900 and an OPS+ of 151, you’ve gotta believe he has some more gas left in the proverbial tank.
by John Q Freejazz on Aug 14, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As the only man with Cub and Cardinal rings.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
as one of the only men with a CUB ring…
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Marquis
may get one without being on either post-season roster.
by jbau on Aug 14, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's find out
Current temperature in hell: 45 degrees F - and falling!
by wnielsen on Aug 14, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I think someone would have to be REALLY good to be able to time a dive when they didn’t need to. It seems absurd to me.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." - Alvin Dark
by Fishbone2 on Aug 14, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so mad at Rich Harden for showboating...
…I mean, STRIKING A BATTER OUT?!?! That is the ultimate insult….God. What a premadonna…
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
guess throwing
whiff pitcher!
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT A SHOWBOAT!!!
TEACH HIM A LESSON! It’s a shame the Braves didn’t throw at him last night when he was at the dish…
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he just stood and watched his strike go all the way into Blanco's glove.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
COME ON!
There needs to be discipline…A technical balk, perhaps? Issued by every umpire concurrently? To make a technical homerun?
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Techinically speaking, of course.
make/art
by neverAcquiesce on Aug 14, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ALWAYS.
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grammatical pet peeve time
It is prima donna. Here’s the wikipedia link on the meaning of the term:
by SuperContext on Aug 14, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I not care about gramerrr miztaaykz...
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Purp may be suggesting
that Harden is about to take the A-Rod path. Therefore, he’s, as of now, pre-Madonna.
Thank you. Thank you. Please try the veal.
by jbau on Aug 14, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AMEN
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden is going to cheat on his wife with a horse-faces stripper?
And then date a washed-up pop star?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 14, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And kiss Britney
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 14, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. No.
Harden == A-Rod in the analogy. As for now I’m unaware that A-Rod has kissed Britney, though think of what that would do to the tabloids!
C’mon man, let’s get our torture