Cubs retaliate -- Nothing happens!
Ted Lilly showed his hitters, the Braves, and the rest of baseball that there is NOT a bullseye on the backs of Cubs hitters.
He didn't go headhunting. He put the pitch where it needed to go. The Braves player got all twitchy, but even Bobby Cox pointed him to first base.
Umps didn't eject anyone. No one got hurt. There will likely not be a suspension, although I guess there could be a fine.
Meanwhile, the pitcher who instigated all this, Bueno, got three games, but the Braves, classy as ever, sent him down. Nice way to reward your paid assassin, Bobby.
He's got a 5.02 ERA and a .284 average against in AAA. He's a thug with an arm, brought up to do a job. It's 50-50 whether he sniffs the majors again to even see that suspension. I'd bet $50 the Braves trade him first.
The high road is great and all, but baseball was impotent to deal with this. Lilly dealt with it the right way.
Hunting season on the Cubs is OVER.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Lilly, the umpires, and Cox all handled this
in a respectable way. It’s over and done now. Time to get on with the season.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Absolutely
Lilly has more than earned my respect. He does whathe needs to to protect his players. Now it is done. There will undoubtedly be bad blood (as I read Francoeur’s comments this morning) but for this season, which matters more, it is done.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions
What did Francoeur say?
It’s 50-50 whether he’s even in the big leagues next year, though.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Francoeur said a lot more than
a guy who’s hitting .230 should ever say. Something like “This isn’t going to cool down anytime soon…if someone pimps (he really said that, BTW) a HR, he deserves to get hit….but Lilly just popped one in on Yunel…” Maybe he should focus on his rapidly flagging career instead of who’s “pimping” HR.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Not to mention
I’d have had no problem with Sori getting hit in the ribs or the leg — but the head is not appropriate. Ever.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 15, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
It's quite certain..........
………..that Jeff Francoeur will be the Braves starting RF next spring.
50-50? Not really……….
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Lilly
had not-so-great control all night.
It was not purposeful.
Get over yourself.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
Oh please
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
beg all you want
you still aren’t right.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs manned up
Enjoy it.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
the Cubs concentrated
on beating the Braves, and swept the season series with them for the first time ever — and they’ve been playing the Braves for over 130 years.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
And they took care of business along the way
Hunting season is over.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
if it had been intentional
Lou and Lilly would have been ejected.
They weren’t. The ump didn’t even think about it.
The Braves acted like little kids. The Cubs got the job done, and they won. All the retaliation necessary happened right there. The HBP was not intentional.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 14, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, because the umps can read minds
They knew it wasn’t intentional and they are always right… Wait, what? The umps are always right??? Huh? Is this drew?
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
apparently both of you can read minds
both of you really need to shut up on this topic.
this debate/who is bigger contest is ridiculous.
I agree drew
though I am not so sure that Lilly wasn’t trying to come in a little more than he needed to. You are right that he was not spot on this game so perhaps he didn’t mean to but I can’t say I have a problem with him meaning to either.
He does have a bit of a history with this team.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions
oh, I'm sure
he was trying to brush Francouer back. “ownership” of the plate is always a contest between batters and pitchers. But Lilly was having control issues — especially to the inside on right-handed batters — all night.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Hunting season over....
…classic. Jay and Silent Bob “Its Hunting Season”
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
LOUD NOISES
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
This is a stupid diary
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
No it's not
And if you thought it was why’d you comment on it 6 times?
by TheRamZamDLEE on Aug 15, 2008 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Argh!! Shiver me timbers!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
In Game 4 of the 2003 NLDS
Robert Fick laid down a bunt and then attempted to exact his own revenge for Gary Sheffield’s broken hand by practically hper-extending Eric Karros’ arm at first base. Bobby Cox fined him, and after the Cubs won the series, the Braves released him. They may have players who occasionally do stupid things, but the Braves organization has always been classy in my book.
"Why does that man drop his club before he runs? I would bring it with me." ~Stewie Griffin
Right.
Cuz throwing at our $136,000,000 man is the definition of class. And breaking a guy’s hand @ second base also is classy. Right.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Do you think the pitcher was under orders to do so?
Or was he seizing his own opportunity?
"Why does that man drop his club before he runs? I would bring it with me." ~Stewie Griffin
Cox is old school.
And a bit over the hill. I think Cox ordered it, but that’s my own opinion, we will never know.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Cox was already ejected at that point.
So really – i am not sure that Cox ordered is correct.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
Those guys manage
From the tunnel to the clubhouse all the time. Don’t know if Cox did that, but an ejection does not automatically equal no influence on the game.
And regardless, if one of his coaches ordered it, it’s a reflection on Cox.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Don't you think his bench coaches
know what he would want done? I suppose he didn’t technically do so but I am fairly certain that whoever di, knows what he would want done.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely
Cox DEFINITELY ordered that doen. And why not? The kid was leaving soon anyway. Cox is washed up.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
A Triple-A guy
Usually doesn’t make an executive decision like that. It’s possible, though.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Yeah, the fact that he went 0-11 in the playoffs
Didn’t have anything to do with it.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
by the way
it was really nice to see you in the game thread, cheering our team on to victory and a season sweep.
What’s that, you say?
You weren’t there?
I see.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
LOL
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Yup...it's called a life
Dinner plans. Flipping back and forth, walking the dogs. You just don’t matter that much to me, drew.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
By the way...
My fiancee and I are going to dinner tonight with her brother and his wife. We might go to a bar afterwards, or head back to their house. We also have a houseguest coming in later.
My guess is, I will just be able to see the score and the highlights. I know I won’t be here tonight. Just wanted to let you know in case you got lonely.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
So wait a minute...
if somebody isn’t on the game thread that means they’re not cheering on the Cubs?!!! Like our entire lives as Cubs fans revolve around an online game thread?!!
I mean, I enjoy this site as much as anybody but let’s get a little perspective here-it’s just a website.
by bluekoolaide on Aug 15, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Apparently...
You can’t watch the Olympics, eat dinner with your fiancee, walk the dogs, clean the bathroom for the houseguest coming and check on the score from time to time and still be a fan.
You have to be here, posting.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
no.
I’m one of the most prolific posters on this site since I joined over a year ago, and I miss game threads from time to time.
But there is a group of people on this board who consistently talk about what the cubs are doing wrong, and how baseball has to change, and how they know better than anyone else what needs to be done —
and then they NEVER show up in the game threads when we’re winning.
There’s a word for that.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Supercallifragilisticexpillidocious?
Is that the word?
I rarely post on game threads period. Winning or losing. I’d rather watch the game, or the highlights, and then comment later.
Or perhaps sesquipedallian is the word you’re looking for.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
well, you spelled it wrong
and I don’t know what you think you’re compensating for.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
it's not me that doesn't mean much to you.
but hey, halfheartedly root for whatever team you want to get suspensions and fines…
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
And you enthusiastically root for...
Whichever team you want to get its lunch money taken away.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
who took away the Cubs lunch money?
They too three games from the Braves with a 29-6 RUN DIFFERENTIAL!
Boy. They sure are pussies.
It must be so interesting in DeBard-World…
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I think that the pitch was intentional
Escobar seemed to know that it was coming before the ball was even released. I’m not sure exactly what transpired that he would have known that it was going to happen that at-bat. I think it’s highly unlikely that Lilly puts a fastball in his ribs in that spot, with Escobar backing away before the pitch is thrown, and it be accidental.
By the way, did anyone notice Lilly laughing afterwards? I seriously love the guy.
Throwing at batters is part of the game, and has been for a long, long time. It’s good hard-nosed baseball. I don’t know why so many people on BCB seem to have a problem with it (excluding, of course, pitches thrown up at the head. That’s not acceptable).
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
by mambochicken23 on Aug 14, 2008 11:17 PM CDT reply actions
and atleast Lilly
wasn’t an idiot like bueno and go headhunting….all he did was send a message.
Nailed!
Here’s my take: Lilly has him 0-2, the balk happens (the most obvious balk ever btw…cue the light bulb blinking in Lou’s head). Lilly misses up and inside the count is 1-2 on Norton, Lilly then proceeds to strike him out on a pitch outside and Geo wanted it down and in. 1st pitch to Escobar wham! He knew it was coming and didn’t even attempt to get out of the way.
Some people here want to act like it was no big deal and it was over… well apparently it wasn’t. Bueno was sent to the minors, Watson gave him 3 games and Lilly dotted Escobar’s elbow.
"Not so much fun when your the one gettin plunked is it? -Bob Brenly @ Yunel Escobar
by TheRamZamDLEE on Aug 15, 2008 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, I think Lilly knew this was his last inning...
…it was the perfect time to do it. Up some big runs, a base open, 2 outs….
Nobody cares about your fantasy league team
by carmen_fanzone on Aug 15, 2008 5:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Lilly handled it perfectly
He didn’t go headhunting. He gave the ump enough plausible deniability that he didn’t even get a warning, much less an ejection.
I think the ump knew perfectly well it was intentional and said, “Yeah, but it was a proportionate response. The Cubs had that one coming.”
It’s amazing, how many people really believed the Cubs should do nothing and that the entire team would break their legs in a brawl or something if the Cubs retaliated.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
IMO
What makes Lilly a great teammate is that I don’t think he cared much about “plausible deniability”. He does what he has to do to protect his players and whatever happens happens. Like last years 1st inning ejection. I really like Lilly a lot. He is a teammate many of us would like to have.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions
No, I think that Lilly's response was appropriate
I just think you go too far with your “man up” talk at times. I’d bet that 99% of HBP’s are unintentional — but you’re part of the crowd that boos at every inside pitch.
Your patron saint is probably Reggie Sanders, who charged the mound after being hit by Pedro Martinez in the eighth inning, of what was then a PERFECT GAME at the time.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 15, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Not at all...
Of course most HBP’s are unintentional. But Bueno’s attempt was not.
It demanded a proportionate response.
I constantly said that the retaliation should be below the shoulders.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
All I heard yesterday Shanghai
Was that the Cubs shouldn’t retaliate because there would be suspensions and ejections and possible injuries in the brawl and maybe the cow would set fire to the city again.
So, yeah, I admit it. I’m gloating a bit.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
I don't know why
since they didn’t retaliate. Lilly says it wasn’t purposeful. Why do you decide to think the man who threw the ball is lying?
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Keep keeping on
I’d wager Lilly tells his kids there’s a Santa Claus too. Doesn’t make it true.
You’re the ONLY person who believes this, by the way.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
What, you think so too?
Amazing…the two people who most disagreed with me that such a pitch should be thrown now say such a pitch wasn’t thrown.
Stunning. What a surprise. Shocking in its originality.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Check the main page
Al agrees with me too.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Someone please
get this prolific poster a cookie stat. He’s clearly a better fan than anyone who dares to think Ted Lilly would throw at somebody.
Jeez it’s a good thing some people don’t take their personal proclamations too seriously.
by TheRamZamDLEE on Aug 15, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't need a cookie stat.
I’m simply refuting the assumption that just because Ted Lilly hit a guy, everyone thinks he did it on purpose.
Plenty of people don’t think that. And Lilly said he didn’t.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Have you ever heard a pitcher admit to throwing at someone?
Especially right after a game? Brenly thought it was intentional, beat writers did too. I’ll take their words for it.
by TheRamZamDLEE on Aug 15, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
take whatever word you want.
I’m taking the word of the guy WHO ACTUALLY THREW THE BALL.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes...
Without acknowledging at all that the guy who threw the ball has an ulterior motive for saying what he is saying.
I hope he keeps saying it. I don’t want him suspended. But I also don’t believe him.
But as I said, at the end of the day, all that matters is that the Braves and the 28 other teams out there believe it was intentional.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
rolls eyes
not only do you have a sekrit mind-reading power for Ted Lilly, you do for EVERY OTHER BALL PLAYER.
I’ve just finally realized that I’m fooling myself. There’s no way to reason with you. So, I’m done on this topic.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Am I really that annoying?
That people would twist themselves into such ludicrous statements just so they can disagree with me??? It is fascinating to watch.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Wow... that's cool!
It’s like I’m a Jedi, with the power to control weak minds! All I have to do is suggest the opposite of what I want them to do and then they are my puppets!
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
C'mon
What along with your Jedi mind control, you also have the ability to discern a persons intentions? The argument works both ways — you say intentional, Lilly says unintentional. I’m going with Lilly on this one, its not as though he has never backed a batter off the plate.
These aren't the droids you are looking for!
Move along!
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
I guess we can all take pride in different things
If you think “being so morally and intellectually repugnant as to make people want to take the opposite side of a debate rather than risk being associated with me” is the same as “crazy awesome mind control powers” then more power to you.
More Jedi power to you at that.
Lilly's a smart guy
he could get it across that he did it deliberately. He could say “no comment”. That would be pretty clear. Instead, he insists that it wasn’t intentional.
I’m going to believe him, especially given how he was throwing the ball last night.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Good for you...
Hopefully, Bob Watson believes him too!
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
don't ever change,
DaBard. It’ll make your head hurt.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
you forgot the
nah, nah, nah boo boo
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
I prefer "neener neener"
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
The cow story is a myth :)
But take it in context of this site — EVERY time a Cub gets hit, there are outcries of, “Retaliate! Retaliate!”, and it’s hard to know who can tell the difference.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 15, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a fair question....
But here are my standards for outrage:
- It has to be a fastball.
- It can’t be in a close game, or, as you said, in a situation where the pitcher has some personal glory on the line
- The Cubs didn’t do anything to deserve it OR…
- They did show up the other team, but the pitch is above the shoulder blades
- The obvious reason for the pitch is not because someone showed someone up, but because they succeeeded. It is infuriating that some pitchers and managers throw beanballs because the guy hit a homer the last time up. By that logic, players who strike out should be able to charge the mound.
As others have said, had Bueno hit Soriano in the rump, it wouldn’t have been as hateful.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
I... DON'T....KNOW...WHAT....WE'RE....YELLING....ABOUT!
DEROSA: How did it feel when you're sitting in Baton Rouge and it came across the ticker that Mark DeRosa had just signed to play second base with the Chicago Cubs.
THERIOT: In all honestly, when I saw it, I really felt like punching you right in the mouth and or breaking your leg.
About time
In baseball putting the opposing slugger on his @#s is protocal! It’s about time we fought back. The weak link in this team, to me, has always been softness. I’m glad we finally showed that it’s not O.K. to throw at our stars. Will somebody please tell me the last time that we protected our stars! Lou shouldn’t have to say anything. It’s an unwritten rule!
by HomerInTheGloamin' on Aug 15, 2008 1:53 AM CDT reply actions
Oh and Lilly is a bulldog
He won’t take sh*t from anyone. Don’t believe me take a gander at this. Guess who’s in the middle staring down Peavy, you guessed it.
love that pic
from Lilly’s perspective at least. Peavy is a bit of a bad-ass on the surface but I like seeing Lilly stand up.
I felt like D-Lee was such a sissy when that started. If you’re gonna stare the guy down and start an altercation, you go to pound his ass, not do some round-about run-around thing like he did. He looked like such a candy-ass when he realized Chris Young might just be able to beat the living shit out of him.
Any one remember Mick Kelleher stand up to Dave Kingman 30-ish years ago in a 2nd base scuffle? Gotta love players like that.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Prior v. Bonds is my all-time favorite, though.
Anyone have a picture of that?
Dome-san!!
by Goat Whisperer on Aug 15, 2008 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Dawson - Show
Remember the Hawk chasing Eric Show into the dugout after getting up from a bean ball to the face!
by HomerInTheGloamin' on Aug 15, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Totally agree.
I was in box seats for that game and Lee took such a lame route to Young. You start, you finish. You walk staright towrds him, not towards home, then to first and then behind your manager.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
some people
only come on here to criticize players. If you want to make fun of DLee’s route to Chris Young go somewhere else.
Where were you during the game thread????~?!?!?!?1?1?!?
!?
/Drewishdrewid
Giev me a break
I opt to watch the game rather than sit on my computer. I am here enough at other times to reserve an opinion about DLee’s choice to charge a 6’10" dude and then wimp out. Heck, who am I kidding, I reserve the right to my opinion whether I am here at all or not.
Oh and thanks for the 2 red x’s.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh of course
to Ryan Theriot’s lawyer and personal trainor that must have been obvious but to just a regular guy…not so much.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 16, 2008 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
If Escobar wanted to take such a long look
he should have brought a camera. I always like cowards like that. They’re big shits until the actual physical thing comes into play. Then if they get into it, they try to bitch-slap the opponent.
That’s why I love hockey so much (but its simply not practical or even logical in baseball), someone like that wants to start up, you call him out and pound his ass in a fight at centre ice; take the 2, 5 & 10 and ignite your team mates all at the same time.
What I’m glad about is the Cubs took care of things on the scoreboard first. They didn’t do that early in the game.
There has always been the purpose pitch in baseball (can you say Bob Gibson?) and Lilly did so, but when the Cubs were up 9-4 in the 6th, not 0-0 in the 2nd inning for instance. Guess that’s p/o the reason why they call him “bulldog”.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
Dabard, you're my hero
I love that so many people attack your posts and constantly flame you because you have such different opinions than they do. I may not agree with you but I like that you’re not afraid of them.
I also think you should get an avatar. A nice bullseye since so many people come gunning for you.
Why thank you
Some of my early problems on here were of my own doing and I did apologize. Some people haven’t moved on, I guess.
On this one though, I didn’t realize I’d be so far out in left field. Retaliating with a shot to the ribs is such an accepted part of the game that I didn’t think I’d run into the resistance I did.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Actually
your approach is what annoys people here. Just like BlueMike, you may have some valid points but the way you deliver them is awfully abrasive and often childish. I think this is why some dislike your presence. Just sayin.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I really try not to respond that way...
Unless provoked. But I appreciate the constructive advice.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
I do think that it takes 2 to tango
& there are other people on here that also instigate things and feel that they are the BLOG POLICE which sometimes gets very annoying.
"I don’t believe that things go your way," said Lou Piniella, the Cubs manager.
"I believe you make things go your way."
Oh sure
he is not alone. His presence was the topic of conversation…that’s all.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Aug 15, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
bueno gets 3 games.....
to be served in september, when they recall him?
He has a 5.02 ERA in AAA
Who knows if they even recall him. They might just release him.
Just another paid thug.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
sell him to the pirates
early last month, the tribe was moving dead weight to the buccos to provide ‘organizational depth’
does anyone in this thread care that the cubs won?
or are we so excited that we threw at someone, and winning doesnt matter all that much.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
I think - but not sure.
had to have been – we threw at a guy which means a game was played – i think.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
There are plenty of threads dedicated to celebrating the win...
This was a victory of a different kind. There were four things that could have happened yesterday…
1) Cubs win and retaliate — perfect!
2) Cubs win and don’t retaliate — End result good, but worrisome down the road. Similar to winning a 10-9 game, but the bullpen gives up six in the 9th.
3) Cubs lose and retaliate — End result bad, but a spark. similar to Fukudome going 5-5 in a loss .
4) Cubs lose and don’t retaliate — unacceptable
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Well, since #2 is what happend
and no one but you is worried, I think it’s all just fine.
Similar to winning a 10-9 game my ass. We dominated the Braves for three straight games. THAT sends a message.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Still clinging to the notion that it wasn't retaliation?
Whatever you need to sleep at night, I guess.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
not a notion
simply the way it is. You can read whatever you want into something, but when a human steps on an ant, it’s almost always a mistake.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Drew, you really didn't think it was on purpose?
I thought it was completely clear that Lilly was trying to plant one in his ribs. The TV and Radio guys felt that way, and it certainly looked like it. If you watched how Soto set up, and barely attempted to reach because he knew where the pitch was going, I’m sure it would be more clear. The Braves thought it was intentional as well, as Jeff Francouer stated this morning. Why do you think it was unintentional?
Because he wants to disagree with me
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
because Lilly
was having problems keeping his inside pitches over the corner to right-handed batters all night.
And because I don’t think Lou plays that kind of game. I’d be dissapointed in Lilly, Lou and Soto if it were intentional.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, hopefully they can live with your disappointment
Lou doesn’t SEEK that kind of game. He doesn’t instigate that kind of game. That is indeed something to admire.
But he clearly knows how to play it. That is also something to admire.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
and you clearly
don’t know what you’re talking about.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely Retaliation
Absolutely intentional. Absolutely perfectly done. Absolutely necessary. and Absolutely acceptable.
I’m absolutely done posting on this now…
Gordon Wittenmyer = DaBard?
And, finally, an end to the beanball war between the teams. At least until next year…Leave it to Ted Lilly to take the final, parting shot.
The Cubs starter who got ejected for hitting the third batter he faced in his previous start at Turner Field — 14 months ago — drilled Braves leadoff hitter Yunel Escobar in the elbow with a pitch with two out in the sixth inning — a response to teammate Alfonso Soriano having a pitch thrown at his head Wednesday.
Lilly denied any intention with the pitch and said the ball just got away from him. Escobar, umpire CB Bucknor and about 36,000 fans apparently disagreed.
Gordo aint drew, that’s for sure!
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
NO ONE
Except drew believes it wasn’t intentional. How people feel about it varies — some say it was out of line, some say it was just right — but no one else seems to believe it was an accident.
And at the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter if he meant to. The Braves believe he did, so maybe they’ll think twice about throwing at heads. The rest of baseball believes he did, so maybe they’ll not try to intimidate the hitters. And the Cubs think he did, so they respect him all the more.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
The politics of beanball wars aside....
I missed the second half of the game, so I watched the highlights this morning and replayed some of the Gameday Audio and read the papers online. There seemed to be universal agreement, and acceptance, that the HBP of Escobar by Lilly was deliberate – by the Braves’ broadcasters, by Dave Otto and Pat Hughes, and by the players quoted in the recaps. So, I was very surprised to see anyone saying it wasn’t intentional…
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
Lilly does.
And since he threw the pitch, I choose to believe him.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
If Lilly says he hit him on purpose, he’ll get suspended, too.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 15, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
if CB Bucknor thought it was intentional
Lilly would have been gone. Bucknor doesn’t screw around.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
If Bucknor thought it was unintentional
then why did he issue warnings? I think the “logic” and “protocol” of the situation was that:
—throwing at a guy’s head, even if you miss = ejection
—throwing at a guy’s ribs, even if you hit him = warning (on the first occasion)
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
because it was a tense situation
made worse by Lilly letting the ball get away from him.
The Braves were looking for something — ANYTHING — to distract from the fact that they’re in free-fall. An accidental HBP like that was the best they were going to get, so they squawked
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Gordon Wittenmyer
is an idiot. Along with the rest of the Sun-Times staff.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Aug 15, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
It was intentional
Agree or disagree with the propriety of it, but there is no doubt in my mind it was intentional, no matter what Ted Lilly said afterward. There are plenty of times in sports and public life where someone says one thing and absolutely everyone knows the truth is another. This was one of them. There would be absolutely nothing to gain for anyone by Ted Lilly coming out and saying he was trying to hit Escobar – if Ted Lilly told the truth there, it would be tantamount to asking for a suspension. Ted Lilly is a bulldog, but he’s not a moron.
there's absolutely nothing to gain
by hitting him in the first place. Lilly didn’t know that he wouldn’t get a suspension simply because the ball hit below the shoulders.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
You're right...
But he knows DAMN well he’ll get one if he admits it was intentional.
It’s the way the game is played. Everyone — well, except you — knows what happened, but no one comes out and says it.
But message sent, and received.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
For someone so drench
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
For someone so drenched in old-school
You really don’t get old school.
What Lilly gained was even more respect from his teammates, the gratitude of the hitters, and the knowledge that the Braves, and everyone other team, knows not to throw at Cub heads again.
This is how baseball used to operate, back in the days of Gibson and Ryan and even further back. It really is amazing that you’re not on board with this.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
it amazes me
that the only baseball tradition you seem to think is good is one that involves actual violence.
Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!
by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
AMEN!
It seems to be an obsession, doesn’t it?
"I wouldn't be a part of any club that would have me as a member" : Groucho Marx
by Dave Pendleton on Aug 16, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
and one I just
don’t understand. It boggles the mind.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
I really don't understand what is so complicated
Thug try hit you. You hit thug back.
And for a fan of the team of Bob Gibson to get sanctimonious about this is what really boggles the mind.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
You are correct that
you don’t understand.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
Right...
So you have nothing meaningful to say…
No one got hurt
No one got ejected
No one get suspended
No one really got all that upset
No one got hit the rest of the game
In short… you were wrong. It’s unbecoming to cling to it for as long as you have.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
We were talking about your
obsession with violence. Al even noted it the other day too.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
That's pretty unbecoming too..
How anyone who disagrees with you is obsessed. And Al was wrong too.
But he is also clinging to the notion that this was an accident. I guess he doesn’t want to call Ted Lilly reprehensible… It’s easier to call me that.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Ted says it was
an accident and until he comes out and says it wasn’t I have to take his word for it. We all have an opinion but opinions are neither right nor wrong. The only one who knows the truth is Ted Lilly.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
And it is absolutely ridiculous
To not acknowledge that Lilly has an ulterior motive here.
If he says it was intentional, he gets suspended.
He probably tells his kids Santa exists. Are you going to castigate him for lying there?
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
You have no idea
what he tells his kids. I think I’m right you think you’re right. We disagree…it happens.
Good luck Shawn Johnson, Lolo Jones and Doug Schwab. Bring home the gold!!!
Obviously
we’re all wrong except you.
"I wouldn't be a part of any club that would have me as a member" : Groucho Marx
by Dave Pendleton on Aug 17, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but you're a Cards fan
So you start out wrong already. You just added to your wrongness here.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
The HBP on Escobar was clearly intentional
—If i recall—the Braves were the team that broke Alf’s hand in June and knocked him out for 5-6 weeks—yes?—
— You don’t EVER retaliate by throwing at someone’s head—EVER—there’s payback and then there’s manslaughter—
— It was no coincidence that since our leadoff hitter had been thrown at—we hit their leadoff hitter after we had a “safe” lead—-
—Escobar and several of the Braves instantly thought it was intentional—
—Lilly cannot and should not admit to throwing at someone in the media—he’s obliged to say it wasn’t intentional—
—Umpires are just as steeped in “how you play the game” and "traditions’ as the players—they knew Bueno’s headshot was wrong and they knew payback was due—don’t think for a second they don’t know about the broken hand in June either.
—I believe the Braves are a class organization for the most part—Cox forgets that sometimes though.—
—The Chinese gymnasts are only 7 years old—
The classy Cincinnati Reds: " (Josh) Hamilton acknowledges that he sensed some resentment in the locker room from three or four players." SI-May 2008
Sorry for all the --blah blah--
that looked a lot more obnoxious after I posted it than when I typed it. I’ll stick with simple short paragraphs with breaks.
The classy Cincinnati Reds: " (Josh) Hamilton acknowledges that he sensed some resentment in the locker room from three or four players." SI-May 2008
I was expecting Lilly to hit one of the Braves batters, so when it came, I wasn't surprised at all.
That’s the kind of guy Lilly is.
You have to protect your hitters, especially when a fastball is thrown by some trashy pitcher at your million-dollar star’s head.
Probably the Braves were expecting it, and Len and Bob seemed unsurprised when it came.
Tit for tat
I really don’t want to get into this argument about wether this was intentional or not, but doesn’t proper beanball protocal state that if your best player (Soriano) gets hit, you hit their best player (Chipper?). I understand protecting your hitters, but Yunel Escobar is, at this point in his career, a decent player, but not a superstar. Why not bean Jones, or hell, even Kotchman?
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
In a perfect world
But Lilly got ejected last year. I think he was waiting until his day was almost done.
Heck, that could be why Escoaber got so upset. He went to work Thursday thinking Chipper or Kotchman would get hit and he didn’t have to worry.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
I don't think anyone is going to be convinced to change their minds on this one.
FWIW:
I think Lilly hit Escobar on purpose. I think it was an appropriate response for Soriano’s head being thrown at, and I think the umpires and Bobby Cox felt the same way. (I think Jeff Francoeur is whiny because he’s frustrated that a seeminlgy promising career is in the toilet at the moment.) No pitcher is going to admit hitting someone on purpose unless they’re tragically stupid, and “no comment” is tantamount to an admission. The players know it was intentional, and that’s all that matters.
I think that some people on this site call for a Cub to hit an opposing player far too often, and it comes across as an overly-hormonal middle school boy. That probably muddies the water when a brushback or HBP is called for. (Pet peeve — “beaning” is hitting someone in the head — the “bean”. Hitting someone in the ribs is not beaning them, and beaning is never appropriate.)
DaBard, I have no issue with you. You’re aware of what caused some of your earlier troubles, and that’s good. However, you felt the need to make a fanpost declaring you were right. I didn’t feel the need to do the same when no Cardinal pitcher hit a Cub on Saturday, nor did anyone who agreed that it probably wasn’t going to happen. Food for thought.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 15, 2008 1:58 PM CDT reply actions
Fair enough...
Perhaps I could have refrained from making a fan post. But clearly, I wasn’t alone in my belief that this was appropriate, necessary and fair. And after what I was called yesterday, I didn’t feel like being magnanimous. I still don’t, really.
BTW, we still need a word for a HBP to the lower body. I think of brushback as having a different intention. Literally, moving them away from the plate. Lilly’s intent was not to bean, but it really wasn’t to just move off the plate either.
I like “drilling” as in “drilled in the ribs”
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Drilling is about right
My $0.02 on the rest — dial back the fighting spirit for a while and let people forget the earlier aggressiveness. I think Kinky Reggae gave you good advice above in this thread.
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 15, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Who wants to wager that...
DaBard = MDBNIU = BlueMike ? They share the initials (DB) and the same negative attitude.
I’m not into conspiracies, but it’s been on my mind so I said it… there. Have a nice day.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
C'mon ... do we really have to go there?
This gets so old !!!
"I don’t believe that things go your way," said Lou Piniella, the Cubs manager.
"I believe you make things go your way."
I guess you're right...
There’s no point in bringing this up.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
Whoa...
If you put DaBard and MDBNIU together, the letters can be rearranged to spell “Band MBA Druid”
Clearly, there is a band of druids with MBAs out there, plotting to take over the site! We will use our Jedi mind powers to control you all!
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Completely different posters.
MDBINU just leaves the thread when challenged, whereas DaBard will defend his ideas until the thread numbers in the thousands. Combine that with other posters who feel they have to get in the last word and you get trainwrecks like that thread yesterday.
MDBINU also would never trumpet how he was right on the internet about something (à lá this diary) because as far as he’s concerned he’s always right.
Last.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 15, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, did you find that photoshop contest?
The one on cracked.com?
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Yeah...
not my bag baby…sorry.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 15, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
S'Cool
Hope I didn’t offend you. The site can be goofy.
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
I dare anyone on this blog to try and offend me....you can't.
Only offensive people get offended. Plus also I’m married and don’t have feelings, which helps.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 15, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting married in two weeks...
We’re going to name our first child after me…
Mandrake Donald Bertram Ignace Napoleon Ulyssess DaBard
Pluto will always be a planet to me!
Well then...welcome to the collective.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 15, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Resistance is futile.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Like I said above...
I shouldn’t have brought it up. Apologies.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

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