currently at Orange? Please be vigilant and keep your belongings close to you at all times.

that was bad.

If that wasn’t mop up, well I don’t know what is. Disappointing cause the guy isn’t this bad. Unless the game has passed him by.

just a month back or so, Lou was calling him one of his top relievers. Lou believes in Howry. I’m guessing less so now, but that’s part of what’s going on here.

But I think Dolphin Stadium is worse.

..its MUCH worse than the Metrodome, by a long shot.

Though Francouer, if he’s even in the majors next year, will probably want it to continue based upon his comments.

I’m normally not a fan of beaning, but if Lilly did it intentionally, I think in this case it’s justified. He has to protect his star teammates, especially when the Braves have thrown at Soriano as much as they have this year and last.

And Lilly, again if intentional, did it the right way: late in his outing, with the Cubs up big, not near Escobar’s head.

I mean, we won the national TV battle, didn’t we?

…that Lilly was throwing at him. Large enough lead, two outs, Ted was likely going to be PH for in the 7th.

I duno…if it WAS intentional, I think it’s pretty silly that the team feels it’s got to plunk someone to ‘stand up’ for a teammate that wasn’t actually hit by a pitch for showboating…

Love those unwritten rules >8)

Can’t really excuse the HR rate, though

… is really disturbing. That means hitters are hitting his pitches for fly balls FARTHER than they did last year. That would imply either a drop in velocity, or pitches being flatter, or both.

And comparing the way I discuss Marquis and Howry really isn’t fair. They are not asked to do the same thing. Howry is a setup man (or is supposed to be). He’s not supposed to be taking blowouts and making them close. Thus when he does so I think he deserves criticism.

Marquis is a fifth starter. He has been an inning eater his entire career. His job, essentially, is to do exactly what he’s been doing — throw six innings and keep his team in the game. He’s been doing that and I have been saying so. If, in his next start, he fails at that, I won’t hesitate to say so.

his body language shows he dont give a rats tail. that makes me madder than anything. in his mind no matter what he’s a starter and would not accept a bullpen assignment to better his team.

you and Al hash that one out. For me personally it is difficult to be biased on a player like Marquis, he is overpaid and he complains, at least Howry stays quiet.

I knew someone would ask me if I was offered an absurd amount of money, what would I do? I’ll be honest, it would be very hard for me internally to get paid 3X what I deserve, especially if that was public, if I’m not earning what I make. I actually just got a raise (yahoo, hope that doesn’t sound like bragging) last week and when I met with my boss I told him, I’m not looking to negotiate because I’m asking for what I’m worth. He agreed and gave me the raise I asked for.

I agree it isn’t the player’s fault they are overpaid, I place the blame on the GM’s across the league. It seems for the most part that the price tag for pitchers has levels out a bit. I think I’ve kind of gotten off topic of your original idea behind your post, but good discussion either way.

…It’s what the market thinks you are worth. Period.

his W-L doesn’t reflect it, but until his last win, he was in a stretch of 6 weeks or so of piss poor run support. He should have had at least 3 or more wins. This goes back to the debate on whether a starter’s W-L record is a true reflection of his ability.

I think his performance has been more than palatable as a fifth starter when taken into that context alone.

I think the fact that he is paid like a #3 or 4 starter fosters those additional expectations. And I think he’s drawn further ire based on the fact that we’ve had others on a roster while he has been here (Gallagher, Marshall, etc…) who many suspect could be descent starting options and who make 1/20 what Marquis makes.

And with the 5th starter being the worst on the staff, they’re kind of a focal point when it comes to discussing improvement in starting pitching.

is considered a specialist. You don’t go to your optometrist and judge him based on how he cleans your teeth. If his job is to go out and get 1 batter, then he should be able to do that most of the time. A starting pitcher, even a 5th starter such as Marquis, is allowed to give up more hits and walks and even runs and still be considered as having done his job so long as he pitches long enough and keeps his team in the game.

Why would you say Rivera isn’t very good?

In the limited playing time he’s received, he’s put up an OPS+ of 131. In his limited playing time last year, he put up an OPS+ of 141. When he’s gotten time, he’s played extremely well. Many fans over on brewcrewball want Rivera to be the starter.