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Soto for MVP?

Before I get bashed, blocked, and banned, I think you should take a look at a post by Peter Gammons over on ESPN... (here)

While I dont think he's MVP material, its an interesting insight into the whole thing.

"The average major league team gets a .256 batting average with 11 homers and a .711 OPS from its catchers. The Cubs, for instance, are tied with the Braves and Angels with 22 homers from the catcher position, lead the majors in catchers' OPS at .863, and -- if one talks to the Cubs' pitchers -- have two catchers in Soto and Henry Blanco "Hey, we won the series, the pitchers were great, and today we had a shutout," Soto shot back. "What's better than that?" who care more about their pitchers than their own numbers. Earlier this season, Soto struck out eight straight times in Washington, but on the bus to the airport he was joking around when a teammate reminded him of his strikeouts.

 

...and discuss

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I don't think there's an MVP candidate on our team...

The MVP award is an individual award usually given to a standout performer on any one team. I’m all for Soto getting votes, but not at the expense of the depth of the rest of the players on our team that stand out. It’s hard to find one guy who really fits the bill as carrying the weight of our entire team, but I suppose you couldn’t have this conversation without Geo in the picture.

Did that make sense? Not really, but it’s Friday, so forgive me.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 15, 2008 2:25 PM CDT   0 recs

It wont happen

But its a solid argument… as far as Most VALUABLE Player, I think Soto is top 5, but with the way that the MVP voting goes, Soto wont even sniff the award.

One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola

by Ryan at Cubshub on Aug 15, 2008 2:25 PM CDT   0 recs

The way I always look at MVP awards

“If this guy weren’t in the line-up would the team have succeeded anywhere near as much as they did?”

You can make a case that Hank couldn’t be an every day catcher the way Geo is, or that he wouldn’t throw out as many base-stealers or hit as many homers, but when it comes down to it, I don’t think the Cubs would implode if Geo were suddenly unavailable. This is a good team, from top to bottom. If I had to guess, I’d say that the team would be about five games worse at this point in the season with a middling catcher behind the plate, and that doesn’t quite fit my criteria for MVP.

Note that I’m not disparaging Soto, here. I think the guy’s a great backstop, and a terrific calming influence on a sometimes over-excited pitching staff. I’m all for him getting the NL Rookie of the Year award, but the MVP should probably go to someone else.

by Clutch16 on Aug 15, 2008 2:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with what Gammons says though

essentially that it will be a victory if Soto receives top-5 CONSIDERATION…He concedes that he MOST LIKELY will not win the award, but I think it’s cool that Gammons wrote an entire piece about Geo…

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 15, 2008 2:33 PM CDT   0 recs

Why would you think this fanpost would get you bashed, blocked, and banned?

Just askin’

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 15, 2008 2:37 PM CDT   0 recs

because it's obvious that Theriot is the MVP

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Aug 15, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And Gold-Glover

And should win the inaugural “Bronze Basepaths” award….

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 15, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Theriot

is widely known as having the lowest TBR in the league.

That’s “Technical Balk Ratio”, of course. His is .0023 Ecksteins.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 3:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Aahh, thats an alarming

Eckstein to normalcy ratio…

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 15, 2008 3:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But he has benefitted...

from 42 Given-Balls so far this season.

"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens

by bobby h on Aug 15, 2008 3:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Y?

Theriot isn’t the mvp. He doesn’t hit home runs! All he does is get on base and clog up the baselines. What good is that? – What Dusty would probably say

by denvercubbies on Aug 15, 2008 3:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well...

He does often have the courtesy to unclog them all by himself after he clogs them, so that the batters after him can have clean, unencumbered bases to work with.

Which is very scrappy.

by jbau on Aug 15, 2008 4:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Because...

Because the thought of Soto as an MVP is, on the surface, a complete and utter joke to anyone who isnt a Cubs fan. Braun is putting up solid power numbers, Berkman is having an amazing year, Webb is racking up a ton of stats, Pujols is hitting near .350 and helping a team not expected to win chase a playoff spot, and I’m sure that a case can be made for Ludwick, Wright, and others.

But… Geo’s handling of this staff is amazing, his hitting has been outstanding, and he might just put up 30/90 stats, which would be silly for a rookie catcher. I think he could crack the top 5 or 10, but I figured that most people would see the title and just assume I was saying that Soto deserved to get the MVP, which at this point, I dont think he deserves.

One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola

by Ryan at Cubshub on Aug 15, 2008 4:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The best line in that article was from Soto...
“I know we win with pitching, and what I contribute offensively is secondary. Hey, it’s all about winning, not stats.”

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 15, 2008 2:41 PM CDT   0 recs

What A Great Attitude!

Look, I don’t think Soto cares about getting MVP votes. He’s a real team guy. I’m so glad we are advertised as the Chicago Cubs now, not “Sammy Sosa and the Chicago Cubs” as in the past. We have a real team concept this season.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 15, 2008 2:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Even if it's not true...

…it’s a great quote. I hope we pay this guy to stick around for a long time.

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 15, 2008 3:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's a very interesting argument. On a team as balanced

as the Cubs, it’s difficult to single out on player and claim “we absolutely cannot survive without him”. The raw numbers say that the teams winning percentage suffers when Sori is not with the team, but because he is really the only position player that has sat out significant time, it’s difficult to say if those numbers are truly representative of his contribution to the team.

When you factor in the amount of touches of the ball that Geo gets and his offensive contribution to the team, one could make an argument that he is the player this team could least afford to do without. If that is the criteria for the most valuable player on the best team in the league, then you may have the strongest candidate.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 15, 2008 2:44 PM CDT   0 recs

A few days ago

I was listening Mike Murphy on the Score (Jeez, that’s almost too embarasing to type in a public forum. It was lunch and I was running off to somewhwere. What can I say?). In that talk, he asked, could a player be MVP for the league and not be MVP for his team? I get the point and I think it’s valid. Soriano is the only Cub that really has League MVP qualifications, but I think there’s an argument to be made that Soto, Theriot, and DeRosa could each individually be thought of as Team MVP’s.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Aug 15, 2008 3:08 PM CDT   0 recs

I take exception to the inclusion of Theriot in any discussion of Team MVP.

This had better be the last time you include him. Or else.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 15, 2008 3:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 15, 2008 3:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It had better be the last time...

Hyperbole of course…I KEED!

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 15, 2008 3:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Excessive hyperbole

Technical balk!

All umpires move up a base plus all future umpires will begin their at bat with a 2-0 count.

Current temperature in hell: 45 degrees F - and falling!

by wnielsen on Aug 15, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Got me...

Eeegad…

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 15, 2008 3:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 15, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Where can you pay only $4.07?

It’s $4.25 around here.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2008 3:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's 3.99

at the Marathon on Lake east of Mannheim and west of 25th.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 15, 2008 3:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Melrose Park?

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Aug 15, 2008 10:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

$3.71 Denver CO

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Aug 15, 2008 3:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

3.47 in Des Moines

…this AM at least

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 15, 2008 3:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

$ 3.79 is what I paid earlier this week here in madison

"We've had our ups and downs, but as long as you have a reason, something to fall back on and a plan, that's all there is to it," Soto said.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 15, 2008 5:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

$3.22

in Aurora….

(I wish)

$3.89

DeRosa: And who is the best and who is the worst card player?

Dempster: I think the best is yourself. [ . . .] I think the worst player is D-Lee. I think he bets every time just to bet.

by EJThunder on Aug 15, 2008 10:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

$3.85 in NW Indiana today..

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on Aug 15, 2008 10:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Is that Milton walking in the background?

That guy is everywhere!

Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.

by IowaCubs- on Aug 15, 2008 3:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not saying I agree with it

but I think an agrument could be made. Of course, there’s an argument being made right now that some people have found the carcass of a Bigfoot.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Aug 15, 2008 3:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Soto is the MAN!

Great article!

We all know Soto won’t win the MVP, but if someone HAD to vote for a team MVP, I would think it would have to be him because of both his offense and defense. Take those, and how he has handled this pitching staff… I give him a lot of credit for the Cubs being so awesome this year. I believe he’s played a very important part in Z, Demp, and all the pitchers who are doing fantastic this year. That is credit he deserves!

One thing though, Soto’s still young… as long as he doesn’t get hurt, we may very well be looking at a player who will go down in history as maybe one of the best catchers of all time. I could see him as a player like Johnny Bench, who is a force with the bat, but watches over a pitching staff that can win several world series. Soto may very well prove to be a guy a dynasty could be built around.

Even if he doesn’t finish top 5 in the MVP voting this year, he may be top 5 next year, and the year after that, and the year after that. Throw in some top 10 votings… and well, we may be seeing the beginning of a Hall of Fame career!

GO CUBS GO!

by TheHawkRules on Aug 15, 2008 3:20 PM CDT   0 recs

One of the things that makes me feel really good about this team

is that there doesn’t seem to be a lot of ego or concern for personal stats. This is personified in the attitude of Soto-what an incredible find he’s been! Going into the season, I have to admit that I was very nervous about handing over the starting catching duties to a rookie. He’s already exceeded my wildest expectations both defensively and offensively.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 15, 2008 3:33 PM CDT   0 recs

Soto's award

Is there any doubt that he’ll be Rookie of the year though? I can’t think of any other NL Rookie that has accomplished what he has this year.

by denvercubbies on Aug 15, 2008 3:39 PM CDT   0 recs

Neither can I.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 15, 2008 3:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens

by bobby h on Aug 15, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I suppose an argument could be made for Hanley Ramirez

The fish are still in contention in the NL East, and his .948 OPS in the lead-off spot has certainly contributed to their success. But Soto’s still my pick.

by Clutch16 on Aug 15, 2008 3:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ummm

Not a rookie…by any standards…
Lots of Hanley…

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 15, 2008 3:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I stand corrected, then.

I will sit by myself for two minutes and feel shame.

by Clutch16 on Aug 15, 2008 3:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ohh...you mean, in their rookie year? I'm assuming?

Maybe? I don’t know…it’s been a long day, and a longer week…

Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 15, 2008 3:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nope - I had a senior moment there

Coulda sworn I was too young for those, too.

by Clutch16 on Aug 15, 2008 4:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jair Jurrjens for the braves

11-7
3.18 era
103 Ks

Good numbers for second place

by JPetey on Aug 15, 2008 8:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is one of the most well-written articles by Gammons I have read in a long time

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Aug 15, 2008 4:19 PM CDT   0 recs

Geovany Soto is exceptional

I concern myself with MVP voting during those years when it’s August 15th and the Cubs are hopelessly out of the playoff chase and there is nothing else to get excited about.

Geovany Soto is impressive. His leadership skills behind the plate are deeply impressive. He reminds me of a young Jason Varitek in this regard. His hitting has simply amazed. Watching Soto over the long stretch I’ve come to appreciate how well he performs against GOOD pitchers in this league. Also, he is smart and highly adept at making adjustments. Not once have I seen Soto struggle with the bat for more than several games…he knows how to adjust in the batter box. VERY SMART baseball player. He gets it too.

by MDBNIU on Aug 15, 2008 4:45 PM CDT   0 recs

Good article

MVP, like it or not, is an offensive award and Soto doesn’t have the gaudy numbers to get attention from voters from around the league. However, I do believe he is the MVP of this team for stabilizaing the position that hurt us the most last year. You only notice a catcher when he is doing bad. So, his quiet MVP numbers at his position are a sign that he is playing the position the right way.

by HomerInTheGloamin' on Aug 15, 2008 4:49 PM CDT   0 recs

Geo is my mvp :)

but truthfully he better win ROY. Maybe in a few years he will be MVP.

Surprised Sue didnt beat to that subject line

"We've had our ups and downs, but as long as you have a reason, something to fall back on and a plan, that's all there is to it," Soto said.

by Madison Cub Fan on Aug 15, 2008 5:18 PM CDT   0 recs

MVP is really "Outstanding Player on a Winning Team Award"

I think an MVP is the player who if they weren’t on your team you would have won a lot less games. Sometimes that is something that is hard to measure with stats. The Cubs record has been much, much better with Soriano in the lineup then when he is on the DL. He won’t win it this year and probably won’t get many votes because his numbers aren’t as good as some others in the league and he missed too many games. The voters would probably disqualify him because he missed all those games, but the way we played when he was out proves his value.

"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"

by MerlinDog on Aug 15, 2008 5:46 PM CDT   0 recs

The Cubs don't have one dominant player...

… whose numbers would stand out in a MVP race. It’s likely to go to Braun or Berkman or even Pujols, even though those players are on teams either out of the playoffs or wild-card contenders.

It’s possible David Wright or Carlos Beltran might win it if the Mets get in, or Chase Utley if the Phillies make it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 16, 2008 5:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

cubs

was looking through an early pre season mag last night.soto,dont expect much from this guy as he was an average minor leaguer. theriot. the cubs will look to upgrade at ss by midseason.and dempster, dont expect too many wins with him making the transition to starting. i guess you cant always be right. oh well

by NOMAR on Aug 16, 2008 7:26 AM CDT   0 recs

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