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Derrek Lee's Struggles

Squirtlogo_tiny by TCobb1911 on

Star-divide

I’ve done some searching on the site, and haven’t found anything disecting this, so if there is one, my apologies, just ignore me. I’d really like to get people’s take on this, because it puzzles me.

In my opinion, and from what I’m seeing, as are other fans I watch with, Derrek Lee is a shell of what he has been early in the year. This puzzles me because he started slow last year, and hit 17 HR in the last half. Well, this year at the end of May he had 13HRs, right now, he has 17. Thats 4 HRs in 2 1/2 months. For a 3 hitter, thats VERY poor. I had no problem with his lack of power last year, because he was hitting .320 or about. A three hitter, with 17 HRs hitting .289 makes me scratch my head why he’s hitting 3, or what the future for him holds.

AGAIN, I want to make it clear, I don’t want him to be some gorilla that just goes for the fences, but only hitting .289 with the power numbers he has is a large concern. I HATE to sound like I’m nitpicking, really. And I know that the offense has been GREAT, but I’m still concerned about what happens when we REALLY NEED him, or in the seasons to come when he’s owed some good scratch.

Those are not incredibly impressive numbers. I’ve also noticed that he seems to be looking for walks, or just hitting singles in spots when we need a ball driven somewhere. Its my philosophy when you come up with RISP and less thatn 2 outs, as a 3 hitter, put something on a swing, and stop watching balls go right down the middle of the plate. I’d like to know other 3 hitters that have only hit 4 HRs in the alst 2.5 months. Its odd to me because we know he can hit. We know he is a strong, very strong man, but I’m curious to hear what other people are seeing. I’m not campaigning for him to get benched or ANYTHING like that.

He has good doubles, & hits numbers, but for a 3 hitter, other numbers just aren’t there. The way he is hitting, he would be a great 2 hitter. I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: its obvious he’s rolling over a ton of pitches. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times, in serious competitve baseball, where a hitter who is doing that, starts swinging a heavier bat, and those offspeed pitches hammered into the ground, turn into line drives up the box.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I wish I knew why.

In the first half, he was hitting like he was the second half of last year. Now he’s stopped hitting anything but singles, for the most part. I imagine he’d like to figure out why, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 17, 2008 11:20 AM CDT   0 recs

Yeah

I think most people have been noticing. I said to my friend last night ‘remember when Lee hit homerruns?’.

It would certainly be nice if he started hitting homers again. I agree that I don’t need to see him benched or anything, but he hasn’t been extremely clutch, and he’s not really a weapon to put an immediate 2 or 3 on the board, and that’s something that you really like to have from your #3.

Hopefully he turns it around and soon, because the way he’s looking he won’t even reach 20HRs, and I was hoping for at least 25, but really more like 30.

by WittyUserName on Aug 17, 2008 11:21 AM CDT   0 recs

In addition to what you say............

……………I think we have to say 2005 was an aberration for Lee. That’s the only season in which he’s scored or driven in 100 runs, and his .335 BA that year was significantly higher than any other he’s ever posted.

Unfortuntately, many of us – myself included – seem to think this is the way Derrek Lee should be hitting all of the time. It may be time for us to readjust our perspectives, and if we have to do it, perhaps Piniella has to consider changes as well.

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Aug 17, 2008 11:23 AM CDT   0 recs

However...

… he did consistently hit 25-30 HR with the Marlins and in his first year with the Cubs, he hit 32. I’d like to see him get at least back to that level. He is .030 below his lifetime SLG this year; it’d be nice to see him get back there.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 17, 2008 11:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes...

thats why its puzzling. We all know he’s worth more than 17 HR’s at this point. Walks are great, but you don’t pay your 3 hitter to be a guy that tries to walk. Do you think he would change these numbers we speak of if he wasn’t overly selective at the plate? Seems to me he watches WAY too many balls go down the middle, and doesn’t even think of swinging.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 17, 2008 11:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well...

… I don’t see his walk rate as particularly high this year… 51 BB at this point of the season translates to about 70-75 for the season, pretty close to his career average.

So the answer is, I don’t know what the trouble is.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 17, 2008 11:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let me rephrase

he’s getting behind in way too many at bats by letting pitches go right down the middle.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 17, 2008 11:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I have noticed that as well. Its almost like he is guessing...

..and never guessing correctly. If I had a dime for every meaty fastball he watched all the way into the catchers glove, I would have at least $5 bucks ;)

I love D Lee and this has been a very frustrating season to watch him at the plate.

"When I got to Chicago, fans came to Wrigley Field just to have fun, now they come to see us win. The expectations have changed, for the players and for the fans. It’s about winning." Kerry Wood, 7/14/08

by JB 23 on Aug 17, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I've noticed this as well

He is usually behind in the count, and mostly because of one or two fat strikes he simply watched. Then he’ll swing at something low and away, if he makes contact, he rolls over it and if there’s a man on first, a GIDP. He isn’t driving the ball the opposite way at all. Maybe it’s a vision thing. Is this the real D Lee or was the end of last year/early this year the real Lee? Maybe he’s more of a guess hitter than we think. If he is, he’s not very good, as you can almost bet the house pitchers are starting him off with first pitch fastballs the last 2+ months and he offers at none of them.

The one constant is his stellar play at first base. He’s saved many a run and at crucial times of the game.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 18, 2008 1:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

His bat

speed just appears slower to me. When pitchers make mistakes on the inner half of the plate, he doesn’t turn on the ball the way he used to; he’s swinging through a lot of balls, and grounding out way too often. Having said that, he’s more aware of this than anyone, and I’m sure he’s trying to work it out. Maybe today is the day.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Aug 17, 2008 11:40 AM CDT   0 recs

It may be the bat speed

Honesly, i have no idea. But he’s basically become an opposite field slap hitter with occasional power. At times he looks disinterested. I don’t know if that is the case, but he could be distracted by the problems his daughter is having.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 17, 2008 11:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

His bat speed

is not slower. Its too fast. All the balls he beats into the ground, especially offspeed, are because the barrel of the bat is already through the zone before the pitch gets there and he’s rolling over everything.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 17, 2008 11:55 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

right...

Because the way you hit for more power is to slow your bat down. Good call.

I remember reading a story about how Babe Ruth had a problem with hitting too many weak grounders to the right side. That’s why he went to a 54-oz bat, you know. Because of the weight of that famous stick, his bat speed slowed down enough to the point where it would absolutely crush a baseball. So slow that it wouldn’t have hurt a person to get hit with that swing, but damn, would it murder a baseball…

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 7:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm guessing

you don’t play, and if you do, you’re lost. I’m not saying “swing as hard as a 6th grader and the ball will fly”. I’m telling you the obvious. When your hands are too fast, or your bat is too light, causing your hands to travel to the zone too fast, the ball will not hit the good part of the pat, and you will hit the ball on the extreme top half, at the end of your swing resulting feebly hit balls. There is no way around it. At all. Period. Its my assumption, he either had poor timing as of late, or could swing a heavier bat the counter the quickness through the zone. So, yes, it would result in more HR’s and doubles, because he will hit the ball deeper in the zone, centering the ball on the sweet spot of the bat, rather than the end, and hitting the center of the baseball.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 18, 2008 7:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

obnoxious

It’s really obnoxious when people go to that “argument” like you have done, twice, in this thread. The argument, or contention, being that “I’ve played and I’m guessing you haven’t because what you say is so dumb, there’s no way you’ve played baseball.” I was a starting pitcher all four years during college, and continue to play in a men’s league since then. I’ve played baseball in one form or another for about 22 of my 26 years. Quit making idiotic assumptions.

And secondly, you’re still wrong. Slowing the bat down is not the answer for more power. Bat speed is the single most important quantity in hitting a ball with power… there’s a tremendously good reason that the most prodigious power hitters have the greatest bat speed.

Assuming that you’re right about one thing (and I am not conceding this, but for the sake of argument will humor you for the moment), and Lee is rolling over a bunch of balls right now, the problem wouldn’t be bat speed. The problem would be staying back on pitches. If he stayed back on pitches a split-second longer, he wouldn’t be in front of the ball, therefore he wouldn’t roll over and weakly hit the ball to the left side. Additionally, he could keep his bats at the same weight, maintaining his bat speed and preserving his power.

So yeah, chew on that a while. Does it taste bitter?

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 10:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Derrek Lee isn't the great player Cub fans make him out to be

Derrek Lee is a quality baseball player. Quality hitter, fine defensive 1st baseman, seemingly a great teammate and gentleman….

But Lee isn’t the player who had the career year in 2005. Therein lies the problem with too many Cub fans.

by MDBNIU on Aug 17, 2008 12:09 PM CDT   0 recs

I agree completely

We have a tendency to fall in love with classy guys like Lee and then overlook the problems.

I’m also not advocating benching him or anything like that but I’d really like to see him dropped in the order. He simply isn’t a #3 hitter and I’m worried that keeping him in that spot is going to hurt us in the long run (playoffs). Also, who knows? Dropping him to #5 or #6 might even help take some of the pressure off of him. He seems very frustrated these days and that isn’t going to help his hitting any.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 17, 2008 2:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Who should hit #3 in this lineup?

And don’t say “Soriano” because we know he’s not being moved.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 17, 2008 2:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hoffpauir!

Hit Hoff 3rd! Put Lee 8th, except when Z is pitching. Then D-Lee should hit 9th, because he sucks. Also, move Theriot to leadoff, bat Soriano 5th behind A-Ram. Oh, and Daryle Ward hit a homer the other day didn’t he?… so let’s bat him 6th behind Soriano. So my ideal lineup looks like this:

1. Theriot SS
2. Fontenot 2B
3. Hoffpauir C
4. Ramirez 3B
5. Soriano LF
6. Ward RF
7. Edmonds/Johnson CF
8. Zambrano P
9. Lee 1B

Bonus! With this lineup, we’ll have the best bench in the majors, with Soto, DeRosa, and Fukudome available to PH or be really great late-inning defensive subs! You can’t misunderestimate the value of a great bench, after all. But what was the point of all this? I forget… oh yeah. Lee sucks.

Yeah, that’s the ticket.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 8:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hoffpauir batting third and catching? Why do

you waste your time with stuff like this. I realize that this is a fantasy lineup, but at least make it somewhat serious so I don’t have to spend time looking at something that will never happen. Oh, you werent’ serious? Never mind.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 18, 2008 8:20 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hahaha

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 8:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That was my knee-jerk BCB response to your post. I'll call

it the Blue Mike response. There’s nothing like starting a good argument.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 18, 2008 8:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think

its a matter of us loving him, but of some of us feeling he IS better than his numbers show. Thats why I say if he is more aggresive these numbers will go up. H’e’s not the ‘05 guy, but as Al has pointed out, he’s hit 30+ hr’s before that year. He just needs to be more aggresive.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 17, 2008 6:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't thikn his lack of power will lead to move im in teh order this year,

but next year i would be shocked to see him hit there, he simply isn’t a #3 any more. Maybe you move him to #5 and let Aram and Soto go 3 and 4… I don’t know but I do think something will need to change.

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Aug 17, 2008 2:05 PM CDT   0 recs

You're probably right.

It’s hard to imagine that pinella is going to drop him in the order at this point. Unfortunately, waiting until next year could turn into a classic case of “too little, too late”.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 17, 2008 2:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

are you serious right now?

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 7:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Almost leading the league in Grounding Into Double Plays

He is one behind Vlad for that mark. That has really affected run production with his constant inning killing groundballs. This is way off his career mark for GIDP which is alarming. Possibly a mechanics issue more so than bat speed.

by careyrd on Aug 17, 2008 2:08 PM CDT   0 recs

Actually look at GIDP like this:

He only has many GIDP because players like Theriot are in front of him. Lee is hitting the ball to the same places as he did in the past there just aren’t people on base as often. DP is not the issue with him. He just isn’t hitting as much power as he did earlier. Hopefully it gets figured out for Sept/Oct.

by ak123 on Aug 17, 2008 9:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No fault to Theriot

Last time I made this statement someone called me a Theriot basher. Soriano and Fukudome could be on base too with speed and DLee would hit into DP’s just as often.

by ak123 on Aug 17, 2008 9:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I tried to make this argument as well

didn’t work.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 18, 2008 9:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No.

I’m no Theriot apologist, but this is silly.

Lee is hitting a LOT more ground balls this year than in years past. That’s the real culprit.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 17, 2008 9:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Is he, though?

Do you have any numbers on this?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 18, 2008 3:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll try to find it

I heard a reference from Len Kasper earlier in the year that the GB/FB ratio was siginificantly higher for Lee this year than in the past, but I can’t find his source right now.

Cwyers, are you there? You might have this before I can find it…

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 18, 2008 6:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

his GB/FB is 1.33 this year, up from 1.08 last year (and 1.06 for his career). His GB% is 44.7, up from 41.3 last year, 40.3% for his career. His FB% is down accordingly. Good news is that his LD% is basically the same as his career norms.

I’m not sure if the few percentage points of difference in the GB and FB numbers is significant though.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 7:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's fairly significant.

So what’s the answer?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 18, 2008 7:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well...

If you think about it, a 4% increase in the likelihood of a groundball only amounts to what, an additional 20-25 groundballs over the course of an entire season of about about 600 plate appearances? That works out to be appx. one more groundball every six games. It’s hard to imagine that this uptick would account for the increase in DP (23 this year vs. 15 all last year, already more than 50% increase).

So yeah, I’d say that it’s more likely that the generally high OBP of the lineup contributes to the high number of DPs that Lee has had. That, and probably a good dose of bad luck.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 8:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Without checking exact #s

I’m going to guess that the combined OBP of Pierre-Castillo was fairly close to the combined OBP of Soriano-Theriot. Lee also hit down the order in Chicago when he first got here, behind slow but on base runners Alou, Sosa, Ramirez, etc.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 18, 2008 8:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I've followed Lee closely.

And he’s not really getting anything to hit. Although, his bat speed is alot slower to the eye than it was in 2005.

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by Unique on Aug 17, 2008 3:32 PM CDT   0 recs

Not getting anything to hit?!!?

He is down 0-1, 0-2 ALL THE TIME. He gets PLENTY of good ptiches to hit early, and fastball too. But teams are seeing he’s not aggresive and they’ll be up 0-1 almost automatically. And his bat speed is TOO FAST. Thats why you get the feebile ground outs to the left side. His hands are too fast for the size of bat he swings, resulting in hitting the extreme top half of the ball, with the end of the bat.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 17, 2008 5:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagree on getting anything to hit

Quite the opposite in fact. Lee gets healthy dose of good hitter’s pitches. Biggest reason why is because opposing pitchers would rather challenge Lee versus face Aramis Ramirez, who despite his ups and downs in 2008 remains THE best and most feared run producer in the Cub lineup and one of the best in the National League.

The evidence suggests two things…

1. 2005 was clearly a career year
2. Derrek Lee is in slowdown phase

Doesn’t mean he still isn’t a good and important baseball player. He is. But it’s not instigating to say Derrek Lee is the 4th most desirable first basesman in the National League Central.

by MDBNIU on Aug 17, 2008 6:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My statement agrees with you...

he gets PLENTY to hit.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 17, 2008 6:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah...

They walked him to get to Army, did’nt they.

ernie81

by ernie81 on Aug 18, 2008 4:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thats a bonehead

decision, and doesn’t happen any other time.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 18, 2008 5:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

actually,

it’s happened more than once. The other time, Rami got a walk-off, didn’t he?

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 19, 2008 9:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Based on the fish putting him on base today

they don’t seem to realize that his numbers are down. That decision was very strange

by chitownhawkeye on Aug 17, 2008 5:54 PM CDT   0 recs

I thought so too

Couldn’t believe our luck there. Knew that it was a tactical decision, but I would rather pitch to Lee right now with runners at 2nd and 3rd and 1 out than pitch to Rami with the bases juiced and 1 out. They were hoping for a sharp ground ball (and got one. It was just too sharply hit to be playable.)

by Archie on Aug 18, 2008 8:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What bothers me

Isn’t the lack of homeruns. It’s the lack of line drives — he just doesn’t hit the ball with authority that often. Right now, he’ s hitting more like a #2 hitter than a #3.

I’m concerned for the team, and I’m disappointed, because he’s probably my favorite Cub. But he’s not who I want up right now with the game on the line — not even in the top 3.

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 17, 2008 9:33 PM CDT   0 recs

Amen.

He wasn’t really hitting homeruns last year either but his OBP was some fifty points higher so you could argue that he wasn’t necessarily hurting us in the 3 hole.
And, at the risk of getting way ahead of myself, I’m already starting to worry about how his hitting #3 could affect us in the playoffs,

by bluekoolaide on Aug 17, 2008 9:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Really? Seriously?

The Cubs might have the best offense in baseball, and you’re worried about Derrek Lee’s effect on the team’s offensive production in the playoffs? Here’s a question: After 124 games of an excellent Cubs offensive attack, why would you be concerned that things would suddenly be oh-so-different in the playoffs? Suddenly, with the turn of a calendar page, the Cubs will not be able to score runs… and it will be Lee’s fault?

Come on.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 7:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's Lee fault this week

but it was Dome’s fault last week. If we keep going alphabetically, eventually we’ll get to Ramirez and Soto, too.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 18, 2008 8:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lee's our #3 hitter

by definition that makes him our best hitter. As we all remember, our offense died in the playoffs last year-obviously that was not just one man’s fault but if you’re getting below average production in such an important spot, it’s obviously not going to help your chances of advancing.

by bluekoolaide on Aug 18, 2008 8:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

no...

by definition it makes him our #3 hitter.

Get a grip.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 8:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I've actually read some things suggesting

that to maximize a lineup’s run creation, you want your 5th best hitter hitting 3rd. What that means, clearly, is that Lou is so genius that he knew Lee would be so bad and put him 3rd on purpose.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 18, 2008 11:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

umm... no

Can you tell me where the definition of #3 hitter is that he is the team’s best hitter?

Bonds hit 4th for years.

Sosa spent half of his career hitting 4th.

The Book actually says that the #3 slot should be your 4th or 5th best player.

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by big_lowitzki on Aug 18, 2008 11:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

IIRC

your best all around/on base hitter is #3 and your best RBI guys are #4 and #5. My 2 cents.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 18, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well...

… that would be the conventional wisdom position.

That would not be what statistical analysis shows, as it shown in The Book:

"Your three best hitters should bat somewhere in the 1, 2 and 4 slots. Your fourth and fifth best hitters should occupy the 3 and 5 slots. 1 and 2 guys should walk more often.

visit the mindful mission

by big_lowitzki on Aug 18, 2008 3:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Depends

on who you have to fill out the lineup. You can’t generalize a lineup and say every time that X needs to hit here, and X needs to hit there. Some lineups have more speed and less power, more power and plate discipline than speed. It depends on who you have. However look around the league, the Utley’s, Pujols’, Berkmann’s, and Quentin’s all hit 3. Its my belief, when possible, that your BEST hitter should hit 3. Because he’s a run producer, with good OB%, good plate discipline, can hit RH/LHP well, and will see more ABs during the course of a year.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 18, 2008 5:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hmm...

Your belief aligns perfectly with the conventional wisdom. That doesn’t necessarily make it true.

And yes, it depends on who you have to fill out the lineup. The Book addresses that, and still determined what I stated above. Your overall best hitters should bat 1, 2, and 4, and your 4th and 5th guys should bat 3 and 5.

Of course… lineup construction has a very minimal impact on run production, but the above “order” is what maximizes your run scoring potential.

visit the mindful mission

by big_lowitzki on Aug 18, 2008 6:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So majority

of MLB managers are wrong?

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 18, 2008 6:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"The Book"

I’m out of baseball books.. I see you’ve read the book, do you suggest it? Have you read “The Book on the Book”?

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 18, 2008 7:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yea...

… I would recommend it. It is pretty intense, in that it involves and discusses advanced statistics, but if you can at least follow what they are talking about, it is a fascinating read.

visit the mindful mission

by big_lowitzki on Aug 18, 2008 9:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Given how much turnover there is in baseball management

it’s not hard to see why most managers stick with the CW. When you do something odd like bat the pitcher 8th, there may be mathematical proofs for why it should produce more runs, but to get away with it, you have to be a guy like TLR who has a mythos of managerial wisdom and even then he explains it in terms of being all about Albertus Magnus. Yost tried it and couldn’t get away with it. It’s too easy to point to a manager doing something odd as an excuse to fire him if the team isn’t winning.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 18, 2008 7:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+2

ernie81

by ernie81 on Aug 18, 2008 3:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No.

His line drive rate is 21.7% this year, up from 20.6% last year. His career LD% is 21.6%.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by mambochicken23 on Aug 18, 2008 7:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

At least defense is there

As long as DLee can pick up every poorly thrown ball I’m happy. He will get his hits. I mean his DP’s are only because we have on base machines in front of him (Theriot and Fukudome @ #2).

A testament to Lee’s fielding was proven in 2006. With Mabry mostly playing first (I think Blanco played a few games there too) players like Cedeno were charged with tons of errors. Thus it also made Cedeno look like a horrible SS—- he did have his blunders dont get me wrong. I bet if Derrek were playing 1st base that entire season Cedeno would have had 10 less errors. That also might have calmed his hitting…just a thought.

by ak123 on Aug 17, 2008 9:42 PM CDT   0 recs

He will be fine...

Big “D” will be fine, they dont pitch to him for a reason, he has proved he can hit, the double play’s suck. Oh, and wait he plays everyday, on an infield that rotates everyone but one. I think he has played long enough, that he knows what to do and when to do it. Being a single, double, or a homer, he is the example we need. You dont see him standing at home watching, or stretching a double into a single.

ernie81

by ernie81 on A