Dolphins Stadium Entertainment during Cubs-Marlins Series
I'm not usually one who concerns myself with what others think or do. I don't think ESPN has a ridiculous East Coast Bias that prevents them from showing the Cubs and I could care less that they'll refer to "the curse" or different things like that in the past, because I feel for the most part their decisions are all made with the idea of how to generate the most ratings and I don't particularly find their coverage of the Cubs to be one-sided in a negative way or suffocating. Joe Morgan in particular is another story though..
I digress, my point is I don't generally get worked up by what others think or how others approach the Cubs. I also seem to have a different viewpoint of fandom than a lot of others, since I don't particularly care what any of the Cubs "rivals" do. I root for the Cubs because I love the Cubs, and if they're in direct competition with another team I'm obviously rooting against the other team, but i've never understood why people actively root against rivals as if a "rival" losing makes you feel better because their fans feel worse. The ideal doesn't resonate with me and it's one that quite frankly disgusts me.
So where am I going with all of this? Well if you happened to attend any of the Cubs-Marlins games this weekend you'll notice that the Marlins seemingly made a conscious effort to create an aggressive environment between Cubs and Marlins fans. The "jumbotron" whenever Cubs players came up had a picture of the 1908 Cubs behind them with a moving Goat and any time a Cubs player struck out or the Marlins made a good play they'd play a loud Goat noise. The Jumbotron also routinely rewarded Marlins fans making derogative signs towards the Cubs. A fan who brought a big picture of a Goat was routinely shown as well as a fan with a Marlins Jersey which he had written the number '03 on and written the name "Bartman", and fans who brought signs saying "This isn't the year", etc. It struck me because I've been in South Fla for over 20 years and of late (since '03) the environment at the stadium between Cubs fans and Marlins fans has become more aggressive and confrontational. I've seen FAR more altercations in Cubs-Marlins series than any other series i've ever attended and it's not particularly close. I'm not saying the Marlins fans are more wrong than the Cubs fans, because there were certainly plenty of bafoons in Cubs paraphanelia looking to start trouble, but I guess what I don't understand is why an organization would go out of their way to antagonize and create an aggressive, confrontational atmosphere through their in stadium entertainment.
I decided to ask those questions to the Marlins team president who I was able to get an email address from his local radio show down here. I've yet to get a response, but I'll post the email I sent below. If anyone else was at the games and felt the same way and felt compelled to question it David Samson can be reached at D.Samson@Flamarlins.com. As I said before, I'm generally not one to complain and make a big deal about episodes like this, but I felt the Marlins campaign was suffocating and antagonizing and wanted to find out if others who attended the games felt that way as well.
Here's my email to Samson:
Mr. Samson,
First and foremost let me preface this email by saying I've become a big fan of yours and Dan Le Batard's by listening to the show. I enjoy the candor each of you bring to a number of conversations. I also admire the Marlins organization and baseball operations for all the success your group has had and I honestly wish more people in the South Florida area appreciated it as much as they should.
I am a Cubs fan who grew up in South Florida and has lived here for over 20 years. I've attended Cubs-Marlins games for the last 10 years and I've attended a number of Marlins games over the years as I'm a baseball fan in general who has an appreciation for the talent your organization puts on the field.
With that said, I have to say I'm disappointed in the way your organization has chosen to approach the Cubs-Marlins series this year from a stadium entertainment perspective and from a broadcasting perspective when on the road. It seems the focus of the campaign is to hammer home the pitfalls of another organization rather than celebrate the successes of your own.
In the road broadcasts earlier this year the TV crew went out of their way to remind the viewer of the "Bartman" incident and went out of their way to suffocate the viewer with information on "the curse". After each of these mini-segments it was reminded to the viewer that the reason this is covered is because its "a part of the history", in almost an apologetic way to Cubs fans for the suffocating coverage.
This focus has continued into the stadium as the stadium scoreboard has shown the 1908 Cubs when Cubs players bats and shown a moving Goat. When the Marlins make a big play a "Goat" voiceover echoes the stadium. In between innings fans who bring in paraphanelia disparaging the Cubs are rewarded by being shown on the "Jumbotron".
I can't understand why the organization's focus is so much on the pitfalls of another team and the suffering of another fan-base rather than celebrating their own (while limited in time) successful tradition. This is an organization that has won Two titles in the last 11 years, why does the focus need to be on what another team hasn't been able to accomplish?
As a Cubs fan clearly I'm biased in the fact that I've had enough suffering and I don't need to be reminded of it every 10 mins. But as a fan of your organization's operations as well I can't for the life of me think of the benefits it brings to the Marlins.
It creates an atmosphere in which fans are rewarded for disparaging the other team and their fan base. This atmosphere resonates into the stands where Cubs-Marlins games seem to have more confrontations than any other Marlins games i've been to. Routinely arguments are breaking out in the stadium and just in these last two games I've seen at least 7 people escorted out for poor behavior. Certainly I'm not pointing the finger at either fan base, because there are clearly bafoons on each side who "have a few too many" and become a bit too involved in the confrontational aspects of fan-dom. What I am confused about is why an organization would want to fuel this type of attitude towards one another by creating an attacking ad campaign on the opposing team's fan base. It becomes apparent that fans are going to be rewarded for disparaging Cubs fans. This creates an environment where Cubs fans feel defensive and battered by the stadium experience and Marlins fans feel encouraged to behave in a way that the Jumbotron operators will reward.
It comes off from an outsider as a classless stunt and one that I can figure out what the benefits are. The crowds the Cubs-Marlins series are some of the biggest of the year and I don't understand why your organization would want to intentionally remind another fan base of their suffering, encourage a divisive and aggressive tone for each of the two fan-bases, and instead ignore the positive tradition of both fan-bases.
This wasn't the way Cubs-Marlins series were approached in the past where the positive traditions of each fan base were celebrated. I remember the Marlins celebrating Harry Caray with a 7th inning stretch and the overall environment was much more cordial.
If you could provide some sort of reasoning or forward this to the person who could provide reasoning behind this campaign, I'd appreciate some insight. I just can't figure out the benefits to the Marlins organization of such a campaign and I feel the negatives are apparent in the aggressiveness brought out by both fan-bases in ballpark altercations.
Thanks for any consideration and attention this email receives. I hope this is taken into consideration in the future and Cubs-Marlins games can be more about the game and less stirring up aggressiveness between the two fan-bases.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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As Al would say
Loud Sustained Applause.
The reason for this sophomoric behavior- simple jealousy. The Marlins have won two world series in the last 11 years and can’t get more than 6,000 people to show up unless they’re playing a team from New York, the Red Sox or the Cubs.
It’s sad and pathetic, and reinforces what I heard a broadcaster say WHILE I WAS IN FLORIDA for the 2003 NLCS- “People in Florida don’t know anything about baseball.”
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on Aug 19, 2008 12:49 PM CDT 0 recs
yuck
the commentators are allowed to say what they want, bc frankly it’s hard to fill up 3 1/2 hours of airtime, but i never knew about the crap that was going on in the stadium…..what a bunch of losers
interesting post
by cubswynn on Aug 19, 2008 1:03 PM CDT 0 recs
Without being too stereotypical
Why hasn’t the large latin/caribbean population in southern florida yielded a larger following for the marlins?
by TC Cubby on Aug 19, 2008 1:05 PM CDT 0 recs
I think the connection is
that latin/caribbean people are big baseball fans.
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on
Aug 19, 2008 1:09 PM CDT
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A lot of it is that, IMO, the Latino population of Miami....
…consider themselves to be Cuban ex-pats first, and Americans second. They don’t generally follow American sports.
Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind...
When my last remains go flying over the left field wall, I'll bid the bleacher bums adieu,
And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue. --Steve Goodman
by NotSure on
Aug 19, 2008 8:04 PM CDT
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But t baseball is huge in Cuba
Cuba, D.R., and Mexico are all big bastions of “beisbol”.
by ChipSet on
Aug 19, 2008 8:32 PM CDT
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Latin Demographics have nothing to do with this.
It rains friggin’ every day. It’s hot and steamy. And twice, after the team has won championships, the teams have been dismantled.
That’s not quite the way to win fan loyalty. And, from what I’ve been told, Dolphins Stadium is horrible for baseball.
Put the team in a new, retractable roof stadium where a game is guaranteed and can be enjoyed in comfort, I’d bet more fair-weather (pun not intended) fans will come, of all ages, creeds, and races.
But this bush-league stuff the team pulled this weekend is just not acceptable.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on
Aug 19, 2008 11:08 PM CDT
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My guess is
Keep in mind I’m a goofy white guy who knows nothing about these things. My guess would be that they are more about national pride (ie where they are from) then civic pride (ie where they currently live)
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on
Aug 19, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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what's funnier...
Is that Dolphin Stadium can’t wait until the Marlins leave.
by rgonzale on Aug 19, 2008 1:06 PM CDT 0 recs
Who knows how much good you'll do, but still...
Kudos on writing such a thoughtful email. A lot of the stuff you mentioned is just plain classless, and needs to be addressed. I understand that the Cubs’ past woes are inevitably going to be brought up here and there by pretty much everyone, but there’s a fine line between simply mentioning them and turning them into something deliberately derisive. The Marlins didn’t just cross that line, they seem to have sprinted past it. I’ve come to expect that sort of behavior from ordinary fans and even the occaisional broadcaster, but it’s simply disgusting that any organization allows their stadium crew to engage in that kind of bullshit.
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game." - Walt Whitman
by hip2bsquare on Aug 19, 2008 1:09 PM CDT 0 recs
thanks for the kind words
i just really struggle with what the benefits would be.
I guess you could chalk it up to trying to start a rivalry since the best part of Marlins recent history probably comes at the expense of the Cubs, but even if that’s the intent why not focus on the positive moments of your franchise? Why not focus on the big effort by Beckett in relief in Game 7 or some of the big hits they had with 2 outs in Game 6
why focus on all the negative moments for the opposing fan base
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 1:13 PM CDT
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I, too, was there
and I was in awe that they would lead a campaign such as that. There were a lot of people that had no clue that the picture was the 1908 Cubs or that they were taking a shot at our organization. I have had a bad taste in my mouth about the Marlins from the past but now I truly think they are classless. I didn’t so much mind all the “1908” or “Curse” or “Bartman” digs. The thing that bothered me was their attempted insults using completely inaccurate information such as “Aramis needs to go back to Philadelphia” or “The only reason DLee left here was for more money”. How do you even respond to that? Anyway, great series especially D.Ward on Friday and the 7th inning on Sunday. GO CUBS!!
when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."
by 1060 W Addison on
Aug 19, 2008 5:33 PM CDT
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Yep, the "fans" down here don't know baseball from basketweaving...
…I generally ignore them unless they demonstrate some rudimentary knowledge of baseball.
Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind...
When my last remains go flying over the left field wall, I'll bid the bleacher bums adieu,
And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue. --Steve Goodman
by NotSure on
Aug 19, 2008 8:02 PM CDT
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I have some words about that organization and their antics over the weekend
They include a lot of profanity and won’t be written here. I think Al or someone else figured out that Cubs fans gave the Marlins about $800,000 over the weekend that they otherwise wouldn’t have.
Why on earth would you want to taunt these new customers that you (hopefully) want to bring back. Stupid business decision IMO, and the few fans that they have wonder why the payroll is what A-Rod makes by the ASG.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on Aug 19, 2008 1:11 PM CDT 0 recs
Perhaps the best response imaginable
is this.
From a strictly business point of view, this is no different than a restaurant spitting in its customers’ food.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on
Aug 19, 2008 1:18 PM CDT
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Exactly
If you went to a fast food restaurant and they give you a cheeseburger, but spit on the burger in front of you then put it in the bag, I’ll bet you would never go there again.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on
Aug 19, 2008 1:20 PM CDT
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I was at the games this weekend
and witnessed what DartmouthCubsFan described. I was not as offended as some as I kind of expected it.
However, it will not stop me from going back when the Cubs visit them again.
What I don’t understand is why would you invite people to your party then poke fun at them the entire time? Obviously, there were more Cubs fans than Marlins fans. I felt like I was at a roast.
"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."
by flachimesa on
Aug 19, 2008 4:07 PM CDT
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I guess everyone forgot the "Kiss Cam" at Bank Holding Company Stadium...
…involving Bartman and the Goat.
One sure way to shut them up…win the whole f*&%ing thing (with apologies to “Major League”)
Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind...
When my last remains go flying over the left field wall, I'll bid the bleacher bums adieu,
And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue. --Steve Goodman
by NotSure on
Aug 19, 2008 8:00 PM CDT
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Enjoy Cubs Games in Cincy
I don’t see the Cubs ridiculed when I go to games in Cincinnati. That’s why I’ve been to as many Cubs games in Cincy as I have in St. Louis. St. Louis is a lot closer to me than Cincy. I love the atmosphere at Great American Ball Park. The Reds have had a lot of down years of late but don’t stoop to the depths the Marlins’ brass do. The Reds appreciate the business of Cubs fans.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Aug 19, 2008 1:13 PM CDT 0 recs
Their broadcasters don't like the Cubs fans being there.
But the Reds got a lot of money last year because they hosted the Cubs in a playoff race. They were classy about it, and Cub fans want to go back there. Thats what the Marlins need to learn.
Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs
by nji232 on
Aug 19, 2008 1:16 PM CDT
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+1
I agree. I usally make at least one trip to Cincy a year and last year I was at the next to last game of the season. There were some reds fans sitting near by that I talked to a little bit during the game. After the game was over one of them come up to me and said “I hope the Cubs do it this year, good luck in the playoffs”. I thought it was a very classic move of his part and I thanked him.
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on
Aug 19, 2008 1:54 PM CDT
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I live in the Chicago area...
…so I had no idea that this stuff was going on. (When the Cubs play the Marlins in Florida, all I see on TV is a big, half-empty stadium with garishly colored orange seats.) I agree that what they’re doing is completely ridiculous.
My guess is that the Marlins are so desperate to generate some kind of enthusiasm among their miniscule fanbase that they’re willing to stoop to any depth to get it. I wonder whether someone from the Cubs organization would ever consider voicing some opposition to their scoreboard shenannigans.
In any case, I’ll be interested to see whether you get a response from Samson. If you don’t, maybe try again another time or two. One minor editorial suggestion: Perhaps shorten up the e-mail a bit. You make a lot of great points, but it looks a little imposing on first glance.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 19, 2008 1:22 PM CDT 0 recs
yeah
i tend to be a bit verbose, already sent though. If I re-send again I’ll try to shorter it up a bit
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 1:42 PM CDT
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Excellent and thoughtful email.
Please post any reply you receive. I’ve been at a number of road games in many different parks and this is the first I’ve heard of any scoreboard operator ever doing such a thing. It’s juvenile and classless.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 19, 2008 1:36 PM CDT 0 recs
I'll make sure
to post any response that I receive
I’ve been fortunate enough to go to a number of stadiums around the country as well and I’d never seen anything like this before. Its never really been like this even down here until recently, as I mentioned in my email things used to be celebrated among the two franchises like having Harry sing the 7th inning, etc. I don’t know who made this decision to gear a campaign towards this type of behavior, but I’m hoping I get some sort of insight into why.
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 1:41 PM CDT
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Even San Diego hasn't quite gotten to this level...
They could have, when the Padres celebrated their 1984 Pennant on ‘1984 Retro Night’ when the Cubs visited Petco for the first time.
They did replay highlights of the 1984 NLCS, that’s to be expected. The infamous “Cub-Buster” T shirt logo made the JumboTron, and replicas were on sale…but that was about it.
Since that’s all that happened that evening, I was thankful. But, the Cubs ruined the party by winning. One of the rare times I’ve seen a victory @ Petco since it opened…..
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on
Aug 19, 2008 11:13 PM CDT
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Funny thing is they were nice in 03
I went down for the playoff games and the fans were perfectly nice especially considering so many of the opposing teams fans could get into their park. You would think that having WON in 03 they would not be the bitter ones.
I mean I do understand Marlin, Pirate Red etc fans getting annoyed at so many Cub fans at their games but when I went to DC, Philly & Toronto this year, and Cinci last year, the fans were very gracious and management seemed grateful for the extra money.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 19, 2008 1:41 PM CDT 0 recs
exactly
it wasn’t this way before, things have changed very recently and I’m not sure I understand why.
I’ve been going to Marlins-Cubs games for over 10 years now, and this year was unlike any other in terms of stadium entertainment.
I’ve had my fair share of experiences with obnoxious Marlins fans who are upset that their stadium is taken over by Cubs fans, but nothing like this year. I’d imagine this type of behavior from the organization only encourages aggressive altercations by their own fans
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 1:44 PM CDT
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Yeah, they were fine in '03...
We did take some heat after the Game Five loss…but of course, in response we chanted “PRI-OR”…“PRI-OR”…
But, it was not to be.
(game five, I’d gotten up to go to the john and Lowell hit one out with one on. I’ve never stopped blaming myself)
by rgonzale on
Aug 19, 2008 4:06 PM CDT
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Some random counterpoints from a longtime Florida resident and Cub fan...
…I have attended games at Pro Player/Joe Robbie/Dolphin Stadium both pre- and post-2003. I agree that the Marlins thoroughly enjoy “getting our goat” so to speak after 2003. I also think you are overreacting just a bit here.
I remember that there was real irritation during the 2003 NLCS with the number of Cub fans and their arrogance that the “series was over”. There were plenty of seats available for those NLCS games, and the crowd was dominated by Cub fans. For both the Tampa series this year, and almost every time I have been to Miami (even when both teams were not in contention), there is a genuine irritation that the opposing teams’ fans invade for these series.
Florida is a weird state in which there are very few natives i.e. everyone seems to be from somewhere else originally. There is also LOTS of resentment by “crackers” (term for Florida native residents) about the “yankee invasion”.
There are popular bumper stickers that read “We don’t give a s&*t how you did it up North” , “If you (heart) Ohio, take I-75 North” , and “Welcome to Florida, now go home”. This attitude about hatred for anything from “up North” is not limited to baseball games. In fact, there is a big controversy here in Tampa about “southern heritage” and the Confederate Flag. The South/North thing is bigger than you may realize. I have had to learn the hard way to assimilate.
My best friend from college lives in Melbourne, (east coast, near Cape Canaveral) is a lifelong Cubs fan, and his step kids all grew up in Miami. Even these 12-15 year old Marlins fans thoroughly enjoy the beatdown they gave us in 2003. I remember being pretty cocky myself in the parking lot after Game 5. They just like serving us a slice of humble pie.
Florida is also much more of a football state than anything else (Rays have the same problem drawing fans). It’s harder to get people out on a weekday when there are so many games and so many other options. They have to have concerts on Saturdays (both Marlins and Rays do this) to draw people.
The same thing goes on here in Tampa for Red Sox and Yankees (IIRC, Rays post “THIS IS YOUR HOUSE” reminders on the Jumbotron for Rays fans to cheer at the end of the game if the Rays are behind).
But let’s be fair. We are invading their turf, we can be pretty obnoxious about it, and it pisses them off.
For crying out loud, the Cub fans were singing “Go Cubs Go” before the game was over on Sunday. Imagine your irritation if Wrigley were filled with 2/3rds Brewers fans. I imagine you might look for ways to antagonize them, particularly if the Cubs weren’t that good.
I have learned to suck it up and win with class when I go to someone else’s house. And, truth be told, I have observed some real obnoxious Cub fans at these games that were over the top for me.
You may think its foolish of the Marlins to antagonize Cub fans, but, really, are Florida Cub fans going to STOP going to see their team on the rare occasions they are in town because of this stuff? Particularly when they only come for 3-4 games each year? Not very likely.
Final funny story. I received a phone call earlier this year from the Marlins ticket office soliciting me to buy tickets because I have gone so often in the past. When I advised that I only go there for the Cubs, they were eager to promote that the Cubs would be there on the weekend and that it would be a great year to make the trip. I didn’t buy tickets this year, but my skin is not so thin that it particularly bothers me. I actually find it kind of funny.
If the antagonism bothers you that much, watch it on TV and don’t go. That’s what I did this year.
And don’t expect it to change until we win it all like they have…just ask the Red Sox about the “1918” chants from Yankee fans. If they call me again next year, I’ll let them know about your concerns.
Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind...
When my last remains go flying over the left field wall, I'll bid the bleacher bums adieu,
And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue. --Steve Goodman
by NotSure on Aug 19, 2008 1:42 PM CDT 0 recs
i agree with a lot of your points
about the north/south thing and the Cubs fans acting childish and antagonistic as well. I openly wrote as much in my post
What I don’t understand is why THE ORGANIZATION would hop on board with that. What do they have to gain by it? It’s my opinion that this behavior only encourages their fan base to be antagonistic and only leads to more altercations, etc. Why would a team want the headache of dealing with that in their stadium?
As for not going if it bothers me that much, I go because I only get to see my team 3-6 times a year in person (depending on how many pilgrimages i make to Wrigley. I’m not going to give that up because of the atmosphere. As I said above, I’m not a confrontational person so I just shrug off the antagonism of the fan base and deal with it while i’m there, but to see the organization (that i’m giving hundreds of dollars to take in a 3 game set) partake in it , I thought it was worth mentioning to them.
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 1:49 PM CDT
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Right.
That’s the point. There are idiot fans of every team in existence; the Cubs aren’t immune to that. But I have never seen a major league organization do this, deliberately incite their own fans to be rude to the visitors.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on
Aug 19, 2008 3:21 PM CDT
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The prevalence of ignorant attitudes
Does nothing to excuse those attitudes. The entire North/South thing is just a ridiculous excuse to justify hateful attitudes (and I should know, I grew up in the South, and I know exactly the type of person you are describing).
And if Florida fans are so concerned about the Cubs invading “their” house, maybe more of them should come out to see their team play.
by SuperContext on
Aug 19, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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Antagonism this is not
This is an attempt to get under the skin of fans who are paying good money to not be treated like second class. I sincerely doubt you’d defend the Marlins if the Cubs fans in Miami only got half the beer for the same price. By antagonizing Cubs fans in this simple-minded way they are not promoting their own team, but attempting to remove some of the enjoyment of the visiting fans. Sad and pathetic.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on
Aug 19, 2008 2:16 PM CDT
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North/South Thing?
That’s interesting that the north/south matters in the southern half of Florida. I’ve always thought of north Florida as being in the “redneck” south and thought of south Florida as having more of a northern Yankee feel culturally with all of the retirees from north of the Mason-Dixon line. I’ve never been south of the Redneck Riviera of the Florida panhandle.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on
Aug 20, 2008 8:16 AM CDT
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you've got it pretty accurate
South Florida is more like California than anything else, completely different once you get north of Orlando
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 20, 2008 3:13 PM CDT
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Don't the Marlins need to try to stir up passion in their fans?
It’s not like they’re encouraging their fans to physically attack Cubs fans. They are simply having fun while trying to create an “us vs. them” mentality. They are just trying to create and pump up a rivalry with a nationally popular franchise that has history with their own franchise. While he didn’t go about it the same way, Bud Selig essentially did the same thing by moving the Brewers to the NL Central to start a rivalry with the Cubs. He knew there would be more local interest if the team was battling the more popular Cubs as opposed to the White Sox. This is all an overreaction to some in game marketing.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Aug 19, 2008 1:44 PM CDT 0 recs
Do they have similar plans for the upcoming Phillies and Mets' series?
The only stats I care about are the ones on the back of a baseball card
by carmen_fanzone on
Aug 19, 2008 1:45 PM CDT
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I don't know, nor care
If they want to greet the Mets with a lot of references to choking last year or the Phillies with references to the fact that they’re the worst non-expansion franchise in baseball history, that’s certainly fine with me. They obviously have had a difficult time building up a large, loyal fan base. Again, obviously, some of that has been of their own making. In American sports, nothing seems to stir up rooting interests than rivalries, and trying to promote such during actual games may help them overcome the light crowds with passion which could lead to word of mouth how fun the games are becoming and more fans wanting to come out.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Aug 19, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
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maybe its me
buy my idea of “fun” at a baseball game, isn’t fights breaking out every 2 innings…
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 1:54 PM CDT
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If they wanted to promote fighting at the ballpark, they'd drop the price of beer
They are, good-naturedly, trying to bring a bit more personal attachment to the team for the fans.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Aug 19, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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or maybe
they’re trying to promote altercations without costing them anything on the beer prices…
Look I go to a decent amount of Marlins games during the year and the Cubs are treated like no other opposing team and as such there are more altercations at Cubs games than any other
I could make the assumption that we have more obnoxious jerks than any other fan base, but I’ll choose to make the assumption that the marketing campaign which encourages aggressive behavior towards the other fan base has “some” impact in the general attitude in the stadium
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 2:03 PM CDT
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Spot on...
Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind...
When my last remains go flying over the left field wall, I'll bid the bleacher bums adieu,
And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue. --Steve Goodman
by NotSure on
Aug 19, 2008 7:55 PM CDT
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And this is exactly the problem.
The Marlins aren’t pitting team against team, they’re pitting fan against fan. And when you mix in liberal amounts of alcohol and perhaps some, ahem, cultural clash, they could have a recipe for disaster (or at least a lawsuit or three) on their hands.
If the fans want to goad each other, let them. But when organizations go out of their way to capitalize on strife between fanbases, it’s just ugly and unprofessional. Then again, all the “help” many stadiums offer fans in deciding when and how to react to the game is, IMHO, pretty ugly to begin with.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on
Aug 19, 2008 2:03 PM CDT
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My standard retort to Florida baseball fans...
“Give me a call when you sell out every game…” Usually shuts them up pretty quickly.
Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind...
When my last remains go flying over the left field wall, I'll bid the bleacher bums adieu,
And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue. --Steve Goodman
by NotSure on
Aug 19, 2008 7:54 PM CDT
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fair criticism
if you think its an overreaction.
I don’t mind stirring up interest and passion, as I said why not play highlights of the Marlins successes in the ’03 series, rather than focus on the Cubs pitfalls
My problem is with THE WAY they’re trying to go about it, I find it classless. Much like the Cardinals fan that was sitting next to me holding up a 1969 sign, I just don’t get it. Why waste energy disparaging another team’s fan base, why not promote your own moments?
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 1:51 PM CDT
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For the Marlins, selling their own moments only brings up memories of the firesales of '97 and '04
That would defeat the cause. Stirring up passions in created rivalries works just as well. They should only be marketing to their own fans, really, and not care about offending the sensibilities of other teams fan bases.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Aug 19, 2008 1:54 PM CDT
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there wasn't a firesale in '04
the team actually went out and locked up young players in ‘04 (Lowell, Castillo, etc) and then signed Delgado in the ’04 off-season, but that’s besides the point
I don’t understand why showing highlights from the ‘03 series and seeing guys get big hits and Beckett pitching in Game 7 wouldn’t do the same thing in a “classier” way
I guess you’re saying they shouldn’t promote the successes they’ve had and instead their marketing campaign should be focused on the negatives of every team they face? This will somehow bring them together as a fan base of haters for everyone else rather than a fan base of supporting their own team?
It just seems silly to me
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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It is silly, that's my point
They aren’t out to offend anyone and nothing they’ve done should be considered offensive. All they’ve done is poke some fun at the misfortunes of the Cubs franchise for the past 100 years.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Aug 19, 2008 2:02 PM CDT
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the actions are silly, the consequences are not
if you believe the stadium entertainment has any impact on the general attitude within the stadium on fan vs. fan interaction
i’m of the belief the organization’s decisions here are fueling more aggressive altercations between the two team’s fan bases
and i don’t see why you’d want that
by DartmouthCubsFan on
Aug 19, 2008 2:07 PM CDT
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I don't want that and I don't think playing goat sounds over the PA will lead to that
Guess I missed the story about all the fights that broke out last weekend
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Aug 19, 2008 2:18 PM CDT
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Disagree
This is a passive-aggressive attempt to piss off visiting fans. Tell me the last time ANYTHING was done at Wrigley to aggravate Cardinals fans. You can’t.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on
Aug 19, 2008 2:14 PM CDT
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Because fans at Wrigley, especially for a Cards series, don't need any encouragement
they don’t need to resort to such shenanigans. But, it’s not like the Cubs have a perfect record in marketing their team. This is, after all, the franchise that perfected selling the experience at the ball park above spending money on the on field product to attract fans.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Aug 19, 2008 2:17 PM CDT
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Say whatever you like about the Cubs being cheap
(as if the Marlins have acted any differently since 1997), but I’m sure if you were to ask Al about Cubs games in the 1970’s when the Cubs were drawing 10,000 fans at most, back then the Cubs wouldn’t have taken on some passive-agressive mocking in order to make their pittance of fans in attendance feel better.
This isn’t “marketing.” This is pissing on people who pay to enjoy the game. The Marlins could have had obnoxious promotion of thier own team at every opportunity and you wouldn’t have seen this diary. This diary is about a franchise that chose to mock visiting fans on purpose in a childish, and frankly sad, method.
*Synth intro to "Jump"*
by SouthsideCub on
Aug 19, 2008 3:24 PM CDT
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They've obviously accomplished what they set out to do...which is get under your skin.
Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind...
When my last remains go flying over the left field wall, I'll bid the bleacher bums adieu,
And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue. --Steve Goodman
by NotSure on
Aug 19, 2008 7:51 PM CDT
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I wasn't just poking at the Cubs being cheap
I was also poking at the silly marketing plan that was used for decades to help build the tradition of the Lovable Losers that led to you being a Cubs fan whether directly or indirectly (i.e., say your dad or grandfather was sold and they passed it on to you). The Cubs sold “the experience of Wrigley Field” with “expect bad baseball” in the small print. The Marlins are similarly trying to sell an “experience”, instead of selling ivied walls, baseball under the sun, and lots of beer, they’re selling camaraderie in an us vs them environment.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on
Aug 19, 2008 8:19 PM CDT
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My Florida experience....
So, i wasn’t going to post this, but after reading some blogs and posts here, i realized i should share my story with other cubs fans.
I live in Orlando, FL – currently enjoying a paid day off thanks to TS Fay :) I have lived her for 11 years and always make the trip down to Miami for the yearly series. I wasn’t going to go this year, as i was sick of the stadium and the fans… i also was tired of seeing the Cubs lose! However, when my father (who lives in Tampa) called me at 8pm on Saturday saying he just went online and bought two tickets to Sundays game (sect 155, row 4!) – we had to go.
For those that didn’t understand the “it might rain” rain delay, you don’t live in Florida. They actually did the right thing. Why march the players out there for 10 pitches, only to have it start a downpour!… Now, this wasn’t the case, but it DOES happen that way down here!
Fast forward to the 7th inning…. Yes 18K in the stadium, at least 70% were cubs fans! So , based loaded, no outs with SORI up to bat in a two run game, not a single cubs fan would even thing about sitting down! This made two 50 year old Marlin fans behind us very upset… Mind you, it was 95 degrees and everyone in our row and the section for that fact was drinking WATER, its not like we were drunk! So, Sori hits a double, score is tied up… DLee draws the IBB (which made no sense) and up comes ARAM..
The usher comes up to me and explains to me that i must SIT DOWN and i am not allowed to stand up during play. SHOCKED, i asked him to repeat himself…. same thing… So let me get this straight, when the game is on, fans are NOT allowed to stand, User “Bob” said “Correct, sir, please SIT DOWN!” Ok, i drove from Orlando, im not about to cause a scene here, so i sat down. My first words were “God, i Miss Wrigley!.” Two Cubs fans infront of me looked at Usher Bob and the two Marlins fans behind him and said “…And you wonder why you have NO FANS here” -
So – ARAM runs the count to 3-2…. Every Cubs fan stands up…. I look at User Bob and put my hands up in the air….. As the ball hits the bat, he leans over and says, “You can, but only because someone is obstructing your view” – Needless to say, by this point the ball was rolling around in the corner and 2 runs had scored.
By the end of the inning, it became the “joke” of our section… After the 8 run inning, the two marlins fans left. Usher Bob did come back and say he “Wasn’t trying to bust up anyones day, he just didn’t want a scene to start” – In the end, Usher Bob did make nice, but what a way to ruin a great inning!
Oh yeah, and the scoreboard – They have been doing that for the CUBS only since ‘03. I have seen the Cards, Mets, and Philly’s all play in that stadium, NEVER do they go out of their way for the graphics like they do for the cubs! – Including a Zoom in on the 2003 WS Flag during Take Me Out to the Ballgame…
I hate the Marlins, but at least i get to see the Cubbies every year! I just hope TS Fay keeps the power on so i can watch the game tonight!
Go Cubbies!!!!!
by OrlandoCubFan on Aug 19, 2008 1:45 PM CDT 0 recs
My understanding.............
………….from a good friend in attendance on Sunday is that MANY Cubs fans were standing at various times throughout the game. And not for just a pitch or two, but for batter after batter and for seemingly no valid reason.
Save the 9th inning, that’s simply not proper, especially if you are blocking the views of others.
From what I gather – and my friend is not a Marlins fan – the Cubs fans were down right embarassing in their behavior at Sunday’s game.


