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Theriot's true value

Alice-cooper-wallpaper-motive03-1600x1200_tiny by mambochicken23 on

Earlier in the season, there was a great deal of debate concerning one Ryan Theriot and his abilities as a member of the 2008 Cubs.  I think that many people on this board (and elsewhere... my cousin and brother, out here in the world) have come to the opinion that Theriot is a good major league baseball player.

He's not.

I want to make clear that I am not a "Theriot basher."  I don't think he's the worst player ever.  I don't even think he's a "bad" baseball player.  I just want everyone to know that he's extremely, remarkably mediocre.  He's almost the definition of replaceable.  Here's the breakdown, as I see it.

The Good!

1) He's got a cool nickname.   2) He seems like a really good teammate.   3) He's photogenic.   4) He handles the press well.   5) He gets on base at a  very good clip, setting the table for D-Lee, A-Ram, Sori, and Geo.

The Bad...

1) He's a below average fielder for his position.   2) He is the worst baserunner on the team this year, with 13 CS in 31 attempts.    3) He's 28 years old, which means he's not likely to be getting better (I'd be more encouraged if he were a 22-year-old rookie).   4a) His OPS+ this year is 100... which means he's EXACTLY league average with respect to OBP+SLG.   4b) Speaking of SLG... he's slugging .371 this year.  That's epically terrible.  For comparison... Neifi! slugged .375 over his career.  That's right.  Neifi @#!)(@&$! Perez.

Theriot is merely holding down the fort at SS this year and letting the other guys pick up the slack.  Which is fine, as it doesn't appear to be hurting the Cubs any with respect to their wins and losses.  But can we please recognize the fact that he's not a good ballplayer?  Can we please stop elevating him beyond what his skill level dictates he be elevated?

Poll
So, what do you guys think?
You're absolutely right!
47 votes
I think that Theriot's contribution to this team is intangible.
128 votes
Shut up, you Theriot basher. He's a great player.
64 votes
You're wrong. Theriot is an awful baseball player.
5 votes

244 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation, Bleed Cubbie Blue, or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief. FanPost opinions are, however, valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

1 recs | Comment 252 comments

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You left out...

The fact that if they are stealing a base, he almost never catches it and tags them.

ernie81

by ernie81 on Aug 22, 2008 4:00 AM CDT   0 recs

ugh

I wrote “I think Theriot’s ‘combination’ to this team is intangible” as a possible answer to the poll. Because it’s really easy to confuse “contribution” with “combination.”

Ugh, what a dummy.

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Aug 22, 2008 4:34 AM CDT   0 recs

I fixed it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 22, 2008 7:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

NON of the ABOVE

he is serviceable and consistent at it, same that Eckstein was with StL and LAA. He gets on base consistently which is important and gets out of what he can with what he has. As a MLB SS he is not above average, and would be an above average 2B with his best offensive year.

At 28 he has not peaked, 32 is peak year, just look at DeRosa for that comparison. That said the rest of the team and its depth allows Theriot to thrive in that environment and it is working. Cubs will probably keep the same lineup with Cedeno there to back up through DeRosa’s contract. I am hoping that the Cubs work on Fontenot this winter so he can play a couple of innings at SS and bring his better bat in the lineup.

I think the question is would you go out and sign Furcal this winter?

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Aug 22, 2008 11:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

32 is peak year?

funny… almost all the studies done on this suggest 25-29

by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 22, 2008 11:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No on Fucal

I think you coined it best “rest of the team and its depth allows Theriot to thrive in that environment and it is working”. All well balanced teams have their Theriot. On a different team I am sure some of his short comings would be magified. Personally I like what he brings to the plate. I ride him out the next few years. While you do that, you better develope someone.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Aug 23, 2008 4:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Aug 22, 2008 12:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

another key factor here

the cub fan in me loves the riot but the baseball fan in me knows his strengths/weaknesses.

the thing about theriot is that he is cheap! I’ve thought about this alot. Their just arent mlb caliver ss’s out there that are that much better than him. I mean heck orlando cabrera will be available this winter I believe. Do we go out and sign him to a 2-3 contract for several million? Do we go sign a defensive wiz that cant hit a lick? I think not.

cant remember if furcal is a FA or not at the end of the year. He’s a good all around ss. but do we want a big money player who frequents the disabled list? I think not. I believe renteria is a FA at years end. whats with a player that every team he plays on—gets rid of him. whats with that. what would it take to sign him? probably a 2-3 yr deal worth quite a bit. Theres just not many options out there. I have came to the conclusion that we just gotta hope onedec blossoms and theriot can hold it down until then.

from the mouth of Uecker:

"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."

by cubsluver22 on Aug 22, 2008 6:03 AM CDT   0 recs

Lou will not replace Theriot with Cedeno

For the first two months of this year, Cedeno outplayed Theriot in every conceivable baseball category – not just outfielded, not just outhit, not just outran, but in EVERY way, Cedeno was better. He had blossomed. And even when Lou did play both Theriot and Cedeno in the same game, he played Cedeno at 2B and Theriot at SS, weakening the team’s defense simply to make the point that Theriot’s job was not going to go to Cedeno.

The only way to replace Theriot at SS is to acquire an All-Star or to wait for a new regime. And you’re exactly right – a good number of those “names” are more expensive and not much better all-around than what we have on roster. Rafael Furcal is the exception. He will be available although he has signalled that he wants to stay with LA.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 22, 2008 6:52 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cedeno: Late-Inning Defensive Replacement

I don’t think it would be a bad idea to use Cedeno as a defensive replacement at SS in the late innings with the Cubs winning. I can’t see Cedeno being put in the starting lineup very often because The Riot is clearly the superior hitter. If they are going to be in the game at the same time, I wish Lou would put Ronny at SS and Theriot at 2B. Theriot’s really a second baseman.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 22, 2008 8:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Riot is a superior hitter?

In 464 at bats, Ryan Theriot has 1 HR, 33 RBIs bats .315, .394 OBP, and a slugging percentage of .371.

In 159 at bats, Ronny Cedeno has 2 home runs, 24 RBIs, bats .277, OBP .339, and a slugging percentage of… .371.

How is the former “clearly” better than the latter?

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 22, 2008 10:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Because his OBP is 45 points higher?

What do I win?

Seriously, I think that Lou is handling this as well as he possibly can. Cedeno has been good in small doses, but he’s spit the bit every time he’s gotten more playing time.

Theriot is getting on base a lot, scoring a lot of runs, and playing an adequate SS. He’s basically having the career year that David Eckstein never had.

I’m not sure that you can take Cedeno’s stats and extrapolate them out to a full season and expect the same production. He’s had a higher % of AB with RISP than Theriot, and a full half of his AB have come with men on base. Theriot simply hasn’t had the same rate of RBI opportunities.

While his season has been a major step forward, Cedeno is going through a rough August at the plate, while Theriot has been pretty consistent all year. There is some serious value in an almost-but-not-quite .400 OBP guy batting before Lee and Ramirez. (Well, hypothetically, in Lee’s case, but the point stands.)

I certainly don’t blame Lou for going with what is working really, really well. 2008 may be the best we’re ever going to get from Theriot, but it’s certainly not time to be looking for major replacements. Going forward, the time will come to see what Cedeno can handle.

by D98 on Aug 22, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

When has Cedeno...

“gotten more playing time” and “spit the bit”?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Aug 22, 2008 10:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm talking about this year...

when he showed he had improved, both at the plate and in the field. And on the basepaths.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Aug 22, 2008 1:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

cedeno had his chances...

this conversation could go on forever…they are pretty evenly matched

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." --Alvin Dark

by preachermancubsfan on Aug 24, 2008 1:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

All I'm saying

is that it is clearly NOT CLEAR that Riot is a better batter. And taking his limited-time stats and projecting them is exactly what you’re supposed to do, I was led to believe.

Ronny has, in 1/3 of the opportunities, hit twice as many home runs, gained 2/3 as many RBIs, and has the same slugging percentage as Riot.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 22, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

RBI's don't count in this stat

They batted in different parts of the lineup. If Theriot was batting 6th or 7th more prominently he would have tons of RBI’s from all of his hits.

by ak123 on Aug 22, 2008 10:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

alright then.

he still has twice as many home runs, and the same slugging percentage. And those 159 bats aren’t exactly consecutive, and we all know about how batters are streaky.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 22, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He's been consistent

Theriot has had a few games in a row where he hasn’t gotten on base but overall he’s been pretty consistent. And HR’s…he’s not a HR hitter. His job is to get on base (not get thrown out…that’s for a different discussion on here) but to get on base not hit HR’s.

My problem with Cedeno is his impatience. At times he seems like he gets it at the plate and can draw a walk. Then at an important pinch hit he strikes out in 3 pitches. If he can work on being more patient I think he would get more playing time.

by ak123 on Aug 22, 2008 11:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

when you only get to bat

ten times a month, I bet you get impatient.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 22, 2008 11:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Or he just hasn't learned

Because Cedeno was just as impatient in 2006. He had I believe the lowest walk % in all of MLB.

by ak123 on Aug 22, 2008 11:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

perhaps that's true

but there’s no way to project that against 159 at bats.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 22, 2008 11:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

That's true too

But if Lou is looking for someone to get on base and he has a choice between Cedeno and Theriot he’s going to pick Theriot. It makes sense this late in the year. Perhaps next year Lou can give Cedeno another look that’s if Cedeno is still on the team…

by ak123 on Aug 22, 2008 11:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Works both ways

There’s also no way to project anything positive against 159 ABs. His career stats aren’t meaningless noise – he had some legitimately bad habits which he may or may not have overcome.

He had an awesome April. He’s been less than great since then. At 25, he may still be the SS of the future, but at the moment, what we’re doing is working.

by D98 on Aug 22, 2008 3:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A-freakin-men...

I suppose Theriot has panned out, but Cedeno earned more PT early in the season but received none. If Cedeno made a baserunning blunder or error in the field, he was benched. If Theriot did something similar, he was placed right back into the lineup for confidence. I do wonder what would have happened to each of their seasons had the roles been reversed…

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Aug 22, 2008 9:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cedeno like Erye?

He got in Lou’s doghouse and never got out?

by Arbusto on Aug 22, 2008 9:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe.

It never seemed like he was in contention for the SS job. You outhit and outfield your competition, yet personal preference is the ultimate factor in who gets the starting job.

Am I saying Cedeno would have been a lot better than Theriot if the roles had been reversed? No, even though I think so. He may have fizzled. But I just don’t understand why he never had the opportunity after clearly outplaying Theriot to begin the season.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Aug 22, 2008 10:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cedeno didn't outhit Theriot in April/May

Theriot was doing quite well in April and May – he had a 125 OPS in April (with his 1 HR and 6 doubles), and 106 in May – a .400 OBP during those 2 months, and was hitting pretty much where he is now, around .315 — I don’t see how you can bench a guy who is doing that under any circumstances. In all honesty, that could have an adverse effect on the team.

Theriot scored 36 runs in Apr/May, and Soriano was completely AWOL during the months of April. Looking back, Theriot’s OBP probably won us a fair amount of early season games.

Cedeno was tearing it up in April, albeit in half the ABs Theriot got – but he fell off the chart in May, hitting .225/.311/.250. It’s understandable that Theriot pretty much locked up the job at that point, especially b/c he hasn’t really had any terrible stretches this year.

by D98 on Aug 22, 2008 10:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

When you go look at their OPSes

Theriot’s did not rise above Cedeno’s until June.

Now, if you want to get complicated about it, sure OBP is worth more than SLG, but at SS, defense is worth more than both. I’m not convinced, when you factor in defense and base running, that even now Theriot is more valuable than Cedeno.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 22, 2008 11:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Baserunning?

I dont remember Theriot sliding past the bag… on a walk…

One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola

by Ryan at Cubshub on Aug 24, 2008 1:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

13 for 23 caught stealing

and more than his share of running blunders — running ahead of the ball hit to the left, etc.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 24, 2008 12:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

13 out of 31.

Still bad, but not as bad as you had it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 24, 2008 7:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

fair enough

he’s still been caught more than Soriano has even attempted.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 25, 2008 12:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

For sure...

but it still seemed Cedeno was never in contention for the job. Had he been, perhaps Theriot would have had a few more starts at 2B?

I understand it was a small (april) sample size for Cedeno, but he also never received regular playing time while opening with a hot start.

And, as DGU states above, defense should be considered as well as SLG.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Aug 22, 2008 1:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He didn't replace Theriot

with Cedeno because Theriot is a better player. Cedeno makes great plays in the field, but every time he throws the ball it could be in the grandstands. There is no arguement what so ever that Theriot has been a much more consistent offensive player than Cedeno.

by nks6911 on Aug 22, 2008 12:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagree...

everyone got on Cedeno in the past because of errant throws and baserunning blunders, but he did not show those tendencies to begin the season and seemed to make a large mental and physical step forward in his career.

Wait…everyone got on Cedeno last year because of bad defense and screwing up on the basepaths? That reminds me of someone…

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Aug 22, 2008 1:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

furcal

would be an exception if he could stay healthy. but he cant and I just dont see the need in handicapping ourselves with a employee type contract.

from the mouth of Uecker:

"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."

by cubsluver22 on Aug 22, 2008 5:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly

At < $500 K, Theriot is a terrific value to the Cubs even if he is simply mediocre. Contrast that with Marquis and Dome, who are both earning in the $6 – 7 million range this season.

"That’s what I love about my skip, man. He’ll tell you that you suck...I know I suck. We know we suck...Yeah, we suck. But we’ll see who sucks at the end."
- Gary Sheffield

by DrGalazkiewicz on Aug 23, 2008 10:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

in my eyes

dome’s contract isnt that bad. we get 2 things with dome. 1 being a gold glove OF who will eventually catch up with american pitching. 2- we break the ice with asian players so to speak and show them that chicago is a great place to play baseball. maybe in the future when another stud player like a dice-k comes along he will want to play here.

from the mouth of Uecker:

"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."

by cubsluver22 on Aug 23, 2008 12:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It isn't that bad as long as...

Dome does CONSISTENTLY get on base like he did early in the season. Remember that this is the cheapest year by far and next season it goes up into the eight figure range. If his offensive woes continue next year, I believe the fans may turn on him.

"That’s what I love about my skip, man. He’ll tell you that you suck...I know I suck. We know we suck...Yeah, we suck. But we’ll see who sucks at the end."
- Gary Sheffield

by DrGalazkiewicz on Aug 24, 2008 10:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I actually think they've started to

I was at the Tues and Thurs games and the fans were less into chanting his name than I expected. This was my first game at Wrigley since April but on TV it seems like the ball-park always chants with the organ music.

Then again the Thursday game I felt had a quieter crowd than normal (until the end). The Tuesday night game was very loud though. I thought it was super cool hearing 41,000 chant “Kerry” in the 9th.

by ak123 on Aug 24, 2008 11:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

saturday

the crowd booed when he K’d with the bases loaded.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 25, 2008 12:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Didn't hear it

I was on a plane coming back from Chicago. They had the game on XM but I couldn’t hear the crowd that well.

by ak123 on Aug 25, 2008 1:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

His true value

is that he gets on base at a better rate than any shortstop in the league. It’s true that he doesn’t have good range, or a good arm at SS, but certainly his offensive skillset is perfect for this team. With a leadoff hitter who has non-traditional skills, the Cubs need a #2 hitter who gets on base. They have plenty of guys who can hit the ball over a building. Also, as a #8 hitter, he’s not afraid to take a walk and turn the lineup over.

One part of his game that is confusing is his basestealing percentage. Outstanding last year, lousy this year.

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Aug 22, 2008 7:23 AM CDT   0 recs

Let's throw this into the mix

What if the Cubs had not traded Omar Infante to the Braves? Who thinks the team would be better with Infante at SS than with Theriot?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 22, 2008 7:29 AM CDT   0 recs

The Riot

If you look back at the World Series champions over the last decade, every single team has had a Riot. His value to this team is the heart of a champion. I think every team that wins a WS needs atleast one of these type of guys that “plays the game the right way” works hard and sets the table. I know it sounds silly but…
2007 – Pedroira or Ellsbury (you choose)
2006 – Eckstein
2005 – Podsednick
2004 – Damon or Cabrera
2003 – Pierre or Castillo
2002 and on and on and on

Fact is Soriano is a 3-4-5 hitter and Theriot is our lead off man. Seriously he is a pretty decent player, we can’t have an all-star at every position…i.e. Yankees, How many WS have they had in the last few years that they have tried this All-Star approach. All I’m saying is get off of Theriot.

by BigFuko on Aug 22, 2008 7:51 AM CDT   0 recs

What is "the right way" to play the game?

Is it “works hard and sets the table” as you suggest or is it more?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 22, 2008 7:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's...

Anything that is intangable…doesn’t show up in the box score…i.e. hitting to the right side when a man is on second.

by BigFuko on Aug 22, 2008 8:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Do intangibles only show up in the positive side?

What about Theriot’s rally-killing base-running blunders? What about the balls that go past him (because he’s being played out of position), get his uni dirty, and start rallies for the other team?

What is so mind-blowing to me is that we have a guy who really does play baseball “right” in Kosuke Fukudome, who defends well, plays hard, keeps his mind in the game, knows how to do multiple things with the bat (not JUST hit to the right side, which is about all Theriot does), but because he doesn’t do two things – get his uni dirty and always seek out the tape recorder – he’s not the heart and soul of the team, he’s a problem who should be benched. Derrek Lee plays the game “right” but doesn’t go off telling people how he’s underrated and get his manager to call Clint Hurdle to have him put on the All-Star squad – instead, he says, “I didn’t earn it this year.”

I wonder how Theriot’s spotlight-grabbing really plays in the Cubs clubhouse. Do they just laugh about it, or does it bother some of the team? See, that’s the thing about “intangibles.” We don’t really know how the team feels about The Legend of Ryan Theriot. Lou is totally invested in it. Is the rest of the team inspired by it? Maybe. Is it a growing cancer? Maybe.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 22, 2008 9:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

get his manager to call Clint Hurdle to have him put on the All-Star squad

Did Riot really do that?

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 22, 2008 10:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No

People who dislike Theriot on here exaggerate things they don’t know about. This is why diaries with Theriot are pointless and one sided on this board.

by ak123 on Aug 22, 2008 10:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well

I don’t know what you’re reading, but I don’t think this diary has been one-sided.

Our 2008 Chicago Cubs -- FINDING WAYS TO WIN!

by drewishdrewid on Aug 22, 2008 10:32 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm reading

I’m reading the same diary that gets posted every other week on here….and it’s boring already.

by ak123 on Aug 22, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Which begs the obvious question . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 22, 2008 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No obvious question

Everyone on this site has their own opinions. Many people strongly dislike Theriot as the everyday SS. Fine, that’s respected. However those people don’t respect others opinions who disagree and it turns into the same pointless debate. Right now this team in close to +30 over .500. Nothing is going to change about this lineup unless god forbid we collapse in the next two weeks. So this is why I don’t see the point of doing another Theriot sucks diary.

by ak123 on Aug 22, 2008 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   1 recs

+1000

The only stats I care about are the ones on the back of a baseball card

by carmen_fanzone on Aug 22, 2008 11:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Respect

Look, to me, it’s important to be respectful to people in these discussions. I have strongly stated opinions and I’ll admit a certain redundancy in posts. But please point out to me any disrespect so that I can retract it or attempt to fix it.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 22, 2008 11:11 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You aren't the only one on this board

And my comments were not directed towards you. But please read this Theriot discussion or every other won we’ve had this season and you will know exactly what I’m referring to.

by ak123 on Aug 22, 2008 11:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

don't be a jerk

Why don’t you re-read my post and tell me where I said Theriot sucks? I’m just asking for us to be realistic, that’s all.

You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.

by mambochicken23 on Aug 22, 2008 12:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah...

why bitch about the discussion? This thread seems rather respectful, and while this topic has been overly discussed, it appears to be respectful and intelligent discussion this time around.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Aug 22, 2008 1:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ummm

i dont think that it is a reality issue so to speak. would I rather have furcal—of course! but do we really need another employee contract for a player that is oft-injured? would we rather have a cabrera or lugo?? lock em in for 2-3 years plus at a crazy rate for ss’s that arent much better than the one were paying close to the minumum for?? at any given time we can cast theriot away like a bad habit and it costs nothing. you cant just cast away 20-30 million dollar plus contracts. hint jason marquis! when a “good buy” comes along I have good faith hendry will get a top notch true ss.

from the mouth of Uecker:

"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."

by cubsluver22 on Aug 22, 2008 5:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This is where I differ

“At any given time we can cast Theriot away like a bad habit.” That, I contend, is totally, absolutely wrong. We can’t get rid of Theriot. Can you imagine the furor that would rise up among the fans and the media if Theriot was traded, let alone just cut as you suggest. We are getting locked in to Theriot at SS through Geovany Soto’s peak years. That’s why you have to get a contract for SS, to move Theriot to 2B where his defense is alright.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 22, 2008 5:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm not saying...

i wouldnt love to have a furcal as our starting ss, i’m just trying to point out the less than stellar health and ability issues from what will or could be available. I kind hope the ss texas has in the minors turns out and young is made available but thats neither here nor there.

for what theriot is being paid and the commitment level he’s doing great. let alone he’s still a very green major league player I mind u. this is really only his sophomore year so to speak. theriot wont be remembered for his high caliber play in 10 years but heck he gives 110% everyday.

we sure dont need a team full of prima donas like the skankees. he fits our equation for the time being.

from the mouth of Uecker:

"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."

by cubsluver22 on Aug 22, 2008 6:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Exaggerated

Let me clarify what was poorly worded above. It was reported that Lou called Clint Hurdle to push for Theriot to be an All-Star. There is nothing that tells us that Theriot asked Lou to do this. I’d be surprised if Theriot did ask for it. When I wrote “get his manager to call Clint Hurdle” (which was poorly worded), I intended to suggest that Lou’s clear partisanship for Theriot is just as likely to bother the team as inspire it.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Aug 22, 2008 11:14 AM CDT