Comparing Apples ('84) and Oranges ('08) Cub teams
by Ivy Walls on Aug 26, 2008 12:58 PM CDT
54 comments
This is a detailed extension of a starting discussion on the Home Page which is often mentioned here and there about the best Cubs teams (in our lifetime). For the record my father is comparing this team with the '35 team and better than the '45 team (insinuating that they are better than '38 & '32 also). But for the sake of our prism I am comparing this team to five teams; '84, '89, '03, '07 & '69. In that prism the '84 club was better than the other four where I rate them in this respective order then on; '69, '03, '89 and '07. But this team '08 is better than all of them and it is my contention that only Sandburg, Sutcliffe, Smith, Williams, & Maddux would break into this team as starters.
1984 had Dernier (CF) .358-OPS, .278-BA, .720 OPS (97 OPS+), although he had 45 SB, 94 Runs scored. Ask the question would you take him over Reed Johnson who is .378-OBP, .314-BA, .828-OPS (114-OPS+) to platoon with Edmonds .374-OBP, .255-BA, .940 OPS, (96 OPS+)? Either defensively or offensively (22 HR's 87 RBI's) that is a no.
1984 had future All Star Ryne Sandberg (2B) .367-OBP .314-BA, .887-OPS, 140-OPS+ 19 HR's 19 3B's, 36 2B's, 84-RBI's where Mark DeRosa is .381-OPS and .287-BA .866-OPS (122 OPS+) with 17 HR's, 23- 2B's, 2-3B's, 77 RBI's but where he has played 4 positions. Sandberg is better but not by much.
1984 had Gary Matthews in LF .410 OBP, .291-BA, .838-OPS, (129-OPS+) 14 HR's, 82 RBI's, 21 2B's batting 3rd, while the 2008 Cubs have Soriano .341-OBP, .881-OPS, .281-BA, 124-OPS+, with 22 HR's and 62 RBI's and playing 2/3 of the season with 14 SB's. Gary was a leader but Soriano is the difference maker.
1984 had Leon Durham at 1B, .369-OBP, .279-BA, 874-OPS, 136-OPS+, 23 HR's, 96 RBI's in the clean up spot, 2008 has Derrick Lee, .358-OBP, .291-BA, .828-OPS, 113-OPS+, 18 HR's, 74 RBI's where in those offensive stats are a push except when it comes to defense.
1984 had The Penguin legged Ron Cey at 3B, .324-OBP, .240-BA, .766-OPS, 107-OPS+ 25 HR's, 97-RBI's, where the 2008 have Aramus Ramirez, .384-OBP, .288-BA, .902-OPS, 132-OPS+ with 23 HR's, 94 RBI's, no question Rami beats out the Penguin.
1984 had Keith Moreland in RF .326-OBP, .279-BA, .748-OPS, 103 OPS+, 16 HR's, 80 RBI's while the Cubs have Fukudome, .363-OBP, .263-BA, .753-OPS, 96 OPS+, 9 HR's and 49 RBI's. Moreland is marginally a bit better offensively with RBI's but Fukudome wins on defense.
1984 had Jody Davis at catcher, .315-OBP, .256-BA, .736-OPS, 99 OPS+, 19 Hr's and 94 RBI's, while the 2008 Cubs have Geo Soto, .368-OBP, .284-BA, .869-OPS, 123 OPS+, 19 HR's 71 RBI's, there is no contest here and Soto wins.
1984 had Larry Bowa at SS, .274-OBP, .223-BA, .544-OPS, 49 OPS+ while 2008 Cubs have Theriot who is .394-OBP, .317-BA, .765-OPS, 101-OPS+.
The Bench of Fontenot, Ward, Cedeno, Blanco is infinitely better than Bosley, Lake, Lopes, Johnstone & Cotto.
Pitching is even more profound:
1984 Only Rick Sutcliffe would have beat out the current starters, 16-1 2.69 ERA, where maybe either Trout was 13-7 3.41 ERA, Eckersley 3.08 but 10-8, (would be a better 5th starter than Marquis) and Ruthven was 6-10 5.04 and Rueschel was 5-5 and 5.17 Cub starters of Dempster 15-5 2.85 ERA , Zambrano 13-5 3.29 ERA, Lilly 13-7 4.29 ERA, Harden 9-1 (1.47 ERA) were far better.
Relief pitching I would add Lee Smith 33 SV 3.65 ERA but the rest of the staff of Geor Frazier (ROX broadcaster) 4.29 ERA, Bruester, Bordi, and Stoddard (close call) don't measure up with Marmol, Samardzija, Wood( 26 SV), Cotts, Gaudin
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Fred Mitchell
wrote about ththis morningis
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 26, 2008 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That got messed up...
Brian McRae's 5 O'Clock Shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Aug 26, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I’m 24 years old. I didn’t see the 69 or 84 teams play. At that point it’s an easy decision
When choosing between ‘89, ’98, ’03, ’07, and ’08, this year’s team takes it.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on Aug 26, 2008 1:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I did see both of those teams play.
This one is better. You can’t necessarily make position by position comparisons and just count up the number of better players. A team doesn’t work that way. But the ’08 team has a better bench, a better bullpen and a deeper starting rotation than any Cub team I have ever seen.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 26, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Williams, Banks, and Jenkins were probably better than anyone on this year’s team, and Santo was certainly the equal of anyone current. But this year’s squad is so darn cohesive and well-balanced…..it’s hard to remember sometimes that they’re the Cubs!
"Eighty-five percent of the world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here." - Lee Elia, 1983
"The only thing that bothers me is that I would never want to destroy the love and what the fans of Chicago are to the Chicago Cubs. I mean, God knows. If there's one pure thing in baseball, it is the fans of Chicago." - Lee Elia, 2008
by CaughtInTheVines on Aug 26, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Banks in '69 was not 23 HR, .259-BA, .730-OPS
Banks hit 32 HR’s in ‘68, 23 HR’s in ’67, 15 in ’66, 28 in ’65, 23 in ’64, 18 in ’63, 37 in ’62, 29 in ’61, 41 in ’60
He was the first big power SS but in the ’60’s he hit 30 HR’s 3 times and was basically a 20-25 HR hitter.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Aug 26, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True about Banks in '69
I was thinking more of his overall career, although it is worth noting that he drove in 106 runs in ’69 and came in 12th in the MVP voting….not too shabby for someone in his 17th MLB season!
When I think about this year’s team, and ask myself if any of them are Hall of Fame players, I have to admit that I come up kind of empty. As I said somewhere else recently, virtually everyone in the regular lineup is a first-class major league player – but I have a hard time categorizing any of them as all-time greats. In ’69, Banks was clearly HoF level, Fergie was having his third stellar season in a row, and Williams was well established an an elite player.
Anyway, interesting sublect – thanks for getting it going!
"Eighty-five percent of the world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here." - Lee Elia, 1983
"The only thing that bothers me is that I would never want to destroy the love and what the fans of Chicago are to the Chicago Cubs. I mean, God knows. If there's one pure thing in baseball, it is the fans of Chicago." - Lee Elia, 2008
by CaughtInTheVines on Aug 26, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how remarkable the team is
Actually Zambrano has a chance of being HOF, at 26 he is still young and strong, he is in the top 5 with most wins since 2003. Wood could also make a career as a closer, he is 32 and he could close for another 6-8 years but both will have be on WS teams a few times for that consideration. Soto has a chance but needs 10-12 years of production and winning. The other player of superior talent is Marmol
What the Cubs have assembled are accomplished occasional All Stars or near the top of their profession players:
Soriano, Edmonds, Fukudome, DLee & Ramirez.
What is remarkable is how they have blended with Theriot and DeRosa having career years.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Aug 26, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice post
recommending it
from the mouth of Uecker:
"Am I the only one who’s glad it’s only a 4-game series? If was a 9-game series, I think the Cubs would win them all."
by cubsluver22 on Aug 26, 2008 1:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The intangible
for the ‘84 team was how they seemed to always come back late in games. It’s been a long time and that was my favorite cub team until ‘08. I don’t know the stats on comeback wins in ‘84 but it didn’t matter who was up, we got a lot of timely hits. As you can see comparing averages, the ’08 team is far ahead. The ’84 team was just so fun to see comeback and win games late. I think the best comparison to ’08 is in the fact they were TEAMS, good guys, professional players, that pulled for each other and enjoyed being around each other. Both these teams play as one. It is the most feared thing in sports, an unselfish team!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Aug 26, 2008 1:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Also remember,
there were only 12 NL teams in ‘84 and the pitching was not as watered down as this year. Philly led the NL in batting average that year at .266 while this year we are tied with the Cardinals at .281. Different times are hard to compare but at least this can be used to compare the batting averages of ’84 and ’08. The last place Pirates led the NL in ERA in ’84 at 3.11 and every team but two were in the 3’s. Much different than today.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Aug 26, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Difference Between these Teams ....
Having followed the Cubs since 1968, only the ‘69 and this year’s ’08 teams had the postseason in their sights from the outset. Sure the ’84 and ’03 teams came tantalizingly close to the WS but neither looked like sure fire playoff teams going to Spring Training.
While the ‘69 team coulda and shouda won, the ’08 team is deeper across the board, esp. in the bottom of the rotation, bullpen and on the bench. This is the big difference — plus the expectation this team has of winning is just stronger, plain and simple. Now we’ll just have to see where it leads over the next couple of months!
If It Takes Forever ....
by wrigley1 on Aug 26, 2008 1:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Take The '08 Team So Far
This ‘08 team has the best pitching and best hitting of any Cubs team I’ve seen. Without looking at statistics, I’ll take the 1989 team as the best defensive Cubs team I can remember. That 1989 team did not hit nearly as well as this one. They had a good top 3 in the rotation with Maddux, Bielecki, and Sutcliffe, but the ‘08 has a good top 4 in Zambrano, Dempster, Harden, and Lilly. I’ll take the trio of Shark, Marmol, and Wood over the trio of Wild Thing, Lancaster, and Assenmacher in the bullpen.
I want this team to win the World Series and end all discussion about the best Cubs club in my lifetime.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Aug 26, 2008 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to be a jerk...
and I typically get annoyed when people nitpick others’ posts…but Ivy Walls, the name is Sandberg, Ryne Sandberg. Can we try to get his name right? He’s only one of the greatest second basemen ever.
FWIW (I was 3 in 1984), this is easily the best Cubs team I’ve ever followed. I can’t remember any Cubs team being this complete – from the number of different ways that it wins ballgames to the depth in its starting rotation and bullpen to its offensive ability from both sides of the plate. Watching the pieces of this team come together over the last couple of years and then watching the team follow through on its promise thus far this season has been immensely gratifying.
27/27/23
by Born Again Cubs Fan on Aug 26, 2008 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey, maybe he's a Lincoln fan.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 26, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn my dyslexia again
thanks
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Aug 26, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot About Sanderson
Scott Sanderson was left out of the 1984 Cubs team evaluation. He went 8-5 with a 3.14 ERA as the 4th starter in 24 games. I could see putting the 1984 versions of Sutcliffe and Trout into this year’s rotation to replace Lilly and Marquis. 1984’s Sanderson would not make the 2008 team’s rotation.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Aug 26, 2008 2:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sanderson v. marquis?
actually rather close, with a nod to sanderson
by tim815 on Aug 27, 2008 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanderson Over Marquis
I would take Sanderson over Marquis. I was thinking about the best five starters between the ‘84 and ’08 teams. I’d take Sutcliffe, Trout, Zambrano, Harden, and Dempster. I should have written he wouldn’t have made that fantasy rotation. I’d take 1984’s Eckersley and Sanderson over Marquis. I think Marquis is a better starter than Dick Ruthven was in the number 5 hole.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Aug 27, 2008 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
teams
I was born in 1969 so I can’t speak to them and 1984 has always been my benchmark. I’d tend to say this team is better, but I don’t want to jinx it when there’s still so much to play. I was convinced we’d win it all in 84, and since then I want to be extra cautious tempting fate.
by johnsonbx on Aug 26, 2008 2:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
damn all those older fans talking about Bill Nicholson in '45 hitting HR's
or the big trade that brought Dizzy Dean to the ’38 Cubs, or talking about the Vulture Phil Regan or some old vet named the Whale.
The thing is we think Theriot is so gifted going the other way when there was Glenn Beckert who made a career out insiding outing everything or watching Jim Hickman truly slowly stroll up to the plate.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Aug 26, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or we think Riot is gifted
because so few players play baseball, instead of playing ‘home run derby’? Particularly with this team, that hasn’t really paid attention to baseball fundamentals over the years…
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 26, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at the stats, I'd tend to double down on my opinion..
that the ‘84 and ’08 clubs are very similar offensively (one hole in the lineup in the person of Larry Bowa aside). I was having a hard time judging off the top of my head because I don’t think the stats compare from today to the pre-juice era. But I believe the OPS+ stat is supposed to equalize that as best you can?
One nit:
Why is Soto (OPS+ 123) “no contest here” over Jody Davis (99 – a difference of 24), while Leon Durham (136) over Lee (113 – a difference of 23) is “those offensive stats are a push”? I say Lee’s glove skills make it closer to a push if you’re evaluating the whole package, but offensively that’s a clear advantage to the Bull.
Assuming the OPS+ stat compares within each position as well (correct me if I’m mistaken), I bet you’d surprise more than a few posters here with the fact that DLee is an above average-hitting 1B this season. That, combined with his golden-caliber glove should slow some of the gripes he gets here.
1984
Dernier 97
Sandberg 140
Matthews 129
Durham 136
Cey 107
Moreland 103
Davis 99
Bowa 49
TOTAL 860
2008
Soriano 124
Theriot 101
Lee 113
Ramirez 132
Edmonds 96
DeRosa 122
Fukudome 96
Soto 123
TOTAL 907
Which is basically the difference between Riot and the fairly anemic Bowa. Again, it’s the balance and lack of an easy out that makes this years’ team such a pain-in-the-arse for opposing pitchers. Plus I don’t think we’ve had a better pitching staff in any of our lifetimes.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 26, 2008 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I should have added that DLee leads with GWH and is second in the NL
a stat I didn’t add, but I will not forgive Durham for the grounder between the legs……he will never be on my team
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Aug 26, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
That play crushed my sprit when I was 11. I’ve forgiven him, but he’ll not be on my team.
Let's get some runs!!!!
by Colorado Cubbies Fan on Aug 26, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yikes
Bowa with a 49 OPS+.
I’m guessing your Edmonds number is from his whole season, not just the Cubs? because if it’s only the Cubs stats, he’s gotta be better than a 96 OPS+. Also… looky at DeRosa! 122 OPS+ from the guy… I love DeRo.
You look like you'd fit in the trunk of my car.
by mambochicken23 on Aug 26, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bench
hebner, henry cotto, ron hassey, and shortstops bad enuff to let bowa be the starter.
vs.
lbr, reed johnson, blanco, onedec may have pushed bowa.
2008
one good thing about both teams was the willingness to pull the trigger to help out the rotation. if the 1969 cubs would’ve dealt for a usuable centerfielder, they might have gone on to lose to the orioles.
btw, the tigers were the best team in 1984.
by tim815 on Aug 27, 2008 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This thread sucks
The 2008 team are obviously the apples. I would say the ’84 team are Peaches. The ’69 team were the oranges.
by daeviant on Aug 26, 2008 4:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny....
….I would have said that ’69 was tangerines and ’84 was plums. 1980 was definitely kumquats.
"Eighty-five percent of the world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here." - Lee Elia, 1983
"The only thing that bothers me is that I would never want to destroy the love and what the fans of Chicago are to the Chicago Cubs. I mean, God knows. If there's one pure thing in baseball, it is the fans of Chicago." - Lee Elia, 2008
by CaughtInTheVines on Aug 26, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1981 & 2006
road apples
"That’s what I love about my skip, man. He’ll tell you that you suck...I know I suck. We know we suck...Yeah, we suck. But we’ll see who sucks at the end."
- Gary Sheffield
by DrGalazkiewicz on Aug 26, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so is '03 bananas as in how crazy we lost game 6?
and ’98 Cambodian Stinky Fruit…..but is ’07 unripened fruit?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Aug 26, 2008 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cambodian Stinky Fruit?
’07 was the green apple. ’08 is red delicious.
by daeviant on Aug 26, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't the Fukudome factor
make this year a Fuji?
Actually, a Royal Gala would be nice, too……
"Eighty-five percent of the world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here." - Lee Elia, 1983
"The only thing that bothers me is that I would never want to destroy the love and what the fans of Chicago are to the Chicago Cubs. I mean, God knows. If there's one pure thing in baseball, it is the fans of Chicago." - Lee Elia, 2008
by CaughtInTheVines on Aug 26, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What was 2005?
Rotten Tomatoes?
"I guess you had some lean years, and didnt have to beat it hard" - Craig Sager
"Soriano deep to left!! THAT BALL'S GOOOONE!! A HOME RUN!! OHHH BABY!!" -Len Kasper 8/06/08
SORIANO WATCH: AVG: .286 22 HR 62 RBI
by Galvan316 on Aug 26, 2008 4:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There's something to be said
About the fact that this is the first year I can remember that I actually expected the Cubs to win even if they were losing.
Last year if they gave up a lead late (7-8th) I assumed it was over. In ’03 I didnt even watch the final 2-3 innings of Game 7. This year, in that same situation, I would feel CONFIDENT that the Cubs would claw back into things.
Weird, eh? And this whole time I figured they were still the Cubs…
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola
by Ryan at Cubshub on Aug 27, 2008 12:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I always held the '69 team in the highest regard
as the best Cub team over the last 40 years. I felt they were handicapped by all the day games, double headers and bench problems. With that said I did not watch them (before my time) but listened to the stories. Sories about Santo, Banks, Williams, Jenkins, Kessinger, Beckert, Hickman, Hands and Hotlzman. After reading many of the posts on this site.. I am now convinced that we are witnessing a better team.
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 27, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw the '69 team play.
This team is better.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 27, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
This team has a stronger starting rotation, a deeper bullpen and a deeper bench, not to mention a better manager. I liked Leo back then but now I relalize all he did was pencil in the same 8 players all that summer and get thrown out of a few games to show he still had the fire. First game I saw in Wrigley was that year and it still is a painful memory; they lost to the Phillies and I can remember in the long, slow drive out of town and everyone in the moving traffic jam on Lake Shore Drive had their windows down and were all asking each other how the Cubs did and they all said they would still win it all. Eternal optimism. Now this year I feel like that vulture in the poster who says to the other one, “Patience, Hell, I’m gonna kill something.”
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been . . . baseball.
by Weeghman Park on Aug 27, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this best Cub team of all time?
Or is that too hard to determine?
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 27, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might be . . .
I don’t think you can compare the 1907/08 team to today, very easily, because the game was so different then. I don’t know what other team you would want to compare them to, maybe 1945. I would submit if they do that one thing that I cannot mention (but it would be the first time in 100 years) then arguably this might be the best.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been . . . baseball.
by Weeghman Park on Aug 27, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I have heard some posters say that the 1935 team was even better than the 1945 team. But neither were able to finish the job.
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 27, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the '45 team would really be in the discussion...
because the league was still shorthanded due to the war effort.. I’m not sure everyone was back even in ’46.
by The Deputy Mayor of Rush Street on Aug 27, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The '35 team...
… was the last one to win 100 games, and won 21 in a row. Yes, they lost the World Series, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t a great team. They were, and probably the best Cub team after 1910… until now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 27, 2008 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about 1918 and 1929?
Just looking at the records it appears those were good teams but I never hear them mentioned.
"We’ve still got a long ways to go, I don’t like to get giggly over things in July. But the team’s playing well, they really are. They’re playing with confidence, and it shows."
by Cubster on Aug 28, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know just what you mean....
….it’s a feeling I’ve had watching the Red Sox in their best years, and the Yankees back in the late ‘70s. That basically they’re always looking to win and always have a shot at it, even if they sometimes run out of innings before they succeed.
And yeah, it DOES feel kind of weird to see the Cubs doing this – first time for me, too!
"Eighty-five percent of the world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here." - Lee Elia, 1983
"The only thing that bothers me is that I would never want to destroy the love and what the fans of Chicago are to the Chicago Cubs. I mean, God knows. If there's one pure thing in baseball, it is the fans of Chicago." - Lee Elia, 2008
by CaughtInTheVines on Aug 27, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It shouldn't feel weird
Like the rest of us, we’ve all waited for this to happen, dreamed for it to happen, sat idly by while it happened to other teams. It shouldn’t feel the least bit weird. For all of the emotional investment every one of us has in this, it should feel exactly right. Our time is now. And it is everything it should feel like.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Aug 27, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exceptionally well said.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Aug 27, 2008 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rotation?
I think our 2003 rotation gives this year’s a serious run for their money. Prior was actually healthy, Wood was good, Z was our 3rd starter which is silly to think about, Clement had a great year for him and Maddux, as our fifth, and was a really good fifth. Yeah our rotation dominates kids now, but 2003’s was ridiculous, i don’t know who i would rather have.
"This ball's got a chaaaaaance.....(YES!!! YESSS!!!!).....GONE!!! CUBS WIN, CUBS WIN!"
by FutureGroundscrewMember on Aug 27, 2008 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And..
We had randall simon who only hit sausages with a bat in his spare time
"This ball's got a chaaaaaance.....(YES!!! YESSS!!!!).....GONE!!! CUBS WIN, CUBS WIN!"
by FutureGroundscrewMember on Aug 27, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux wasn't on the 2003 team
He came back in 2004. Our fifth starter was Shawn Estes. I’ll take Marquis over Estes, but I agree the ’03 rotation was special.
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on Aug 27, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know...
I’ll take ’08 Harden over ’03 Zambrano.
by daeviant on Aug 27, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look ar it this way
Best team in the NL in all offesensive categories. Best setup and closer combo in the league. Three, thats right, three CY caliber pitchers in Z (not lately, but still an ace), Harden, and Dempster. Best chance to win 100 games which the other teams didn’t do. This year is our best year in the last 50+, period.
by CubFaninStLouis on Aug 28, 2008 1:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It may end up being
our best post Tinker, Evers and Chance era team
"Destiny is a matter of choice, not chance"
by MerlinDog on Aug 28, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
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