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Instant replay is here

 

Cubs will get it Thursday against Philly.  What say you BCB?  I worry about the slippery slope – yes, fair/foul on HRs is certainly possible to do quickly and efficiently, but what happens when everyone starts calling for all fair/foul calls?  Safe/out calls?  God forbid balls and strikes? 

It seems the NHL has produced a very successful model, (since the early 90s?) and they’re still only looking at whether or not the puck crosses the line.  So maybe this will all work out.  Also, where are they going to install replay monitors in MLB – thinking of Wrigley, there’s not much space, do they put them in the dugouts or umpire room?

Discuss.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3554357

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Glad It Wasn't In Philly

I’m so glad there wasn’t instant replay to overrule that “home run” DeRosa hit in Philly on that Sunday afternoon earlier in the season.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Aug 26, 2008 2:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The more the better

It’s about damn time baseball got with the program.

And I HOPE it’s a slippery slope. I hope it gets broadened to plays at the plate and trap plays in the outfield. Both are often calls where the ump has a bad angle.

It’s called technology and progress. Use it. Or go back to the cave.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 2:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Forgot about traps

You’re right, those are always tough. But really when you start adding all of it together, doesn’t it just make the games drag on and on?

by ar_hawkins on Aug 26, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's simple

Ball ruled trap, but replay overturns it — Batter is out; runners return to original bases.

The defense gets the out, but loses the right to attempt a double-play

Ball ruled catch, but replay overturns it — Batter awarded 1st base and all runners advance one base.

The offense keeps the inning alive, but loses the right to attempt to advance further than one base.

It gives the wronged side the better of the deal, but doesn’t screw the other side, who didn’t do anything wrong.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah! Like fingered gloves, catchers equipment, bullpens, 5 man rotations,

polyester uniforms, players unions, closers, free agency, Tommy John Surgery, astroturf, retractable domes, QuesTec, Lasik, Body Armor, batting practice jerseys, maple bats, Steroids, HGH, Robotic Limbs, Enchanted Nintendo Power Bats, Laser Guided Superconductor Baseballs for pitching.

Technology and Progress.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, we could go back to:

  • All games during the day, meaning most of us couldn’t get to the game, because we work.
  • Games not on TV and barely on radio
  • Baseball unable to expand and grow because domes and air-conditioning not allowed in fast-growing, hot climates
  • One arm or knee problem ending a career
  • No videotape or DVD of at-bats or pitches, which means slower improvement

We could go back.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

After your done moving the goalposts...

could you also repaint the end-zones?

Not advocating the implementation of one rule or a change in process does not equal advocating regression from or removal of any current ones.

Nice try though. +5 BCB Points for correct use of bullet points.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You were the one who presented the laundry list of "bad" progress

Including Tommy John surgery, which has fixed, among many others, Kerry Wood…

And retractable domes and a/c has allowed markets with intolerable weather to have baseball. Miami, Toronto, Phoenix and Minnesota all have at least one championship.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well this is certainly curious....I've read my own post again...and again...

and I’m having a little trouble finding the part where I described any of those things as “bad”….

huh. Someone must a went back and deleted it between the time you read it and I read it.

Again….+5 BCB Points for the effort.

-100 BCB Points for not understanding my intent in my original reply.

The simple fact that technology exists, is not enough justification to use it. Sometimes the technology is worth it (modern medicine), sometimes it isn’t (astroturf).

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And in this case...

technology is good. I get your point now. There is good tech and bad tech.

In this case, getting the call right is a good thing. The delays are miniscule and it’s laughable to complain about delays in baseball anyway.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a good idea

Limit it to territory calls… where the momentum of baserunners is not interfered with.

Hence, why they are going to first use it on Homerun calls only. If the HR is fair… the runners all plate. If the HR is foul, the runners return to their base. There is no question of what base the runners should be standing on after the correction is made.

  

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Aug 26, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There doesn't have to be that much question on other plays

Plays at the plate especially. It boils down to the runner being safe or out. The runners on the bases would advance because the throw went home, regardless of the outcome at the plate.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

or you could just hire an ump

who knows a trap when he sees one…

by nathew on Aug 26, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I had my druthers

I prolly woulda rather just thrown an additional two umpires in the outfield, but this was probably inevitable.

"I love when they play that Go Cubs Win song."

by BMoney79 on Aug 26, 2008 3:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I have heard that there have been a few of times

that even with 2 outfield umps, some calls were missed. The one thing I like about replay for HR calls is that you will get multiple angles, Even with an extra umpire on that side of the field, 3 or 4 different views in slow motion are better than one set of eyes at normal speed. My 2 pennies…

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 26, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't doubt it

And you’re probably right. Just haven’t really warmed up to the idea yet. Just dreading the long delays. It drives me bonkers when watching an NFL game, and I just don’t want that happening to the MLB.

"I love when they play that Go Cubs Win song."

by BMoney79 on Aug 26, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would like this to stay at being used for home runs only

at least through the 2009 season. After a full 1 & 1/4 season of review, we have enough data to evaluate if it should be used for other instances, such as close plays, trapped balls, etc. It’s a slippery slope, and I don’t want MLB to fall down it.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Aug 26, 2008 3:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

Sometimes, what’s at the bottom of the hill is OK.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's about time...

A few days too late in my opinion, after Austin Kearns fair/foul HR off of Harden on Sunday.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Aug 26, 2008 3:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kearns' HR was a fair ball.

But it would have been reviewed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 26, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well yes, you verified that for me the other day...

But as you said, that is an instance where the umpire crew would have been able to review it.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Aug 26, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can live without it...

I like the human element of the game.

by tcjhawk on Aug 26, 2008 3:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, because it is so charming...

to get calls wrong when the tech is there to get it right

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The tech is there to get every single call that is missed overturned.

A bang-bang play at first, a border line strike, a called or not called checkswing, a trap in the outfield, fan interference, and on and on and on and on. MLB isn’t going to use it in any of those situations and they have just as big of a chance to change the course of a game as a homerun call.

Charm has nothing to do with it.

by tcjhawk on Aug 26, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You wish that baseball was still called rounders....

and I’ll bet you want to give Alaska back to the Russians!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is an excellent job of reading in between the lines to find the hidden meaning!

Think of Crash Davis’ monolouge to Annie when she is interviewing him and Nuke – that is what I wish for baseball. I’m not against change. I just like the human element – forgive me.

I do wish ’80s rock got more respect.

by tcjhawk on Aug 26, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crash also probably wished...

The ump had replay at home on that play he blew at the plate later in the game.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 26, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Using arithmetic....I'd say 2.

Tonight’s game – Tuesday no replay
Tomorrow’s game – Wednesday no replay

Thursday’s game – begins the use of replay.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 26, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meh... I can't seem to get too worked up about...

something that might be used a handful of times before the end of the season.

I’m not a big fan of replay in either the NFL or NCAA football. Despite the “GET THE CALL RIGHT” mantra, there are still plenty of missed calls (whether they’re reviewed or not), and officiating seems to get worse and worse every year regardless of technology… or maybe because of it.

So how many times would this have come up in a Cubs game this year… DeRosa’s “HR” in Philly, Soto’s inside-the-park HR in Houston, I think there was a HR over Soriano’s head in Pittsburgh that shit the top of the wall (???)…

by hokie316 on Aug 26, 2008 4:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is my first post here at BCB. I thought there were some good points raised thus far, so of course, I just had to add my two cents.

I forget who exactly it was now, but someone on one of Bob Costas’ more recent round table shows was able to sum up my feelings on replay fairly well. Baseball is not like other sports. Quit trying to make that so, and allow it it’s quirks.

I’m not going to argue that a game should not change, but I do feel it should be a more organic change, a slow evolution, if you will. Perhaps I am biased with the myriad changes in the Selig era (DH, interleague, “This time an exhibition game counts!”), but this just seems like yet another knee jerk reaction by MLB, implemented by a man who seems to have a flair for reducing this game to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Why should Bud risk pissing off the ump’s union by suggesting they be more accountable, when he can just introduce a more tech friendly, marketable tool that can homogenize the sport further, yet having the very real possibility of not being much more accurate that the system before it? As has been mentioned previously, replay is hardly infallible in other sports.

I guess, at the end of the day, I’ll learn to deal with it, but I do dearly hope that this does not turn into yet another tool that broadcasters try to use to distract me from the game itself. Get ready for the Fujifilm MLB Instant Replay, brought to you by Budweiser!

by chris78 on Aug 27, 2008 7:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Slow evolution, indeed

Using replay to check calls has been around for 20 years. Baseball is not out on a limb here.

I don’t think Selig is averse to suggesting the umpire’s be more accountable, but what exactly does that accomplish?

Selig: “Hey guys, I suggest you do better”
Umps: “OK.”

And nothing changes.

It is a false argument to suggest that the same amount of calls will get missed. It is hardly infallible, but we are talking about calls that are difficult for the umps to make. It is not laziness that causes a first or third base ump to not be able to see a borderline HR call. It is not lack of interest in the game, no matter how much people wish to demonize the umps.

The change HAS been a long time coming.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 27, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not so fast....

Don’t start holding Selig up as an innocent man that has tried to get the umpires to be more accountable. His complete lack of leadership is why umpires suck so much. HE IS THE FARKING COMMISSIONER….the fact that he tells them “do better” and then “nothing changes” is HIS FAULT.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 27, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The consensus seems to be

That there are just some homers in some parks that are impossible to see in time. It is not laziness or incompetence, just the play happens too fast and there is no good angle.

So you have calls that are difficult AND they are among the most important in a game, because they literally put runs on the board.

When dealing with a union, it is a long process to get change enacted. It takes quite a bit to remove or even discipline someone. The umpires union formed three commissioners before Selig, but I’m sure you guys would blame him for that too.

It’s a far easier process to install replay. It’s also likely to be more accurate. Yes, it won’t be perfect, but any call the replay system determine is also one that the naked eye wouldn’t be able to determine either.

Selig managed to get rid of quite a few deadbeats several years ago, thanks to the idiotic decertification thing the umps did. Guys like Ken Kaiser, Eric Gregg and others got ousted.

Pluto will always be a planet to me!

by DaBard on Aug 27, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ooops, see, I dislike Selig so much, I even attribute the DH to him.

by chris78 on Aug 27, 2008 7:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

what pisses me off is that this basically formed from the yankees

there were a couple of games that involved the Yankees that had questionable calls in about a 2 week period. Then because it was the Yankees and Mets game on Sunday night that had a questionable call, ESPN blew it out of proportion resulting in this…

2008 Cubs: Who needs nine innings, when you only need a 7th?

by Chanman25 on Aug 27, 2008 9:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It wasn't just the Yankees...

… there was one involving the Cubs (Soto’s inside the park job in Houston that was really an outside the park HR) and a couple involving other teams, all within a one week period.

This is one thing that DESERVED to be “blown out of proportion”, by ESPN or anyone else.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 27, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it is the domino effect. First home run calls

Then there will be a week sometime down the line where there are many misjudged calls with a bangbang play at 1b so that will be added. Then so on and so on.

So sometime in 10 years, why not get rid of the human element and make robotic umpires that never make false calls?

2008 Cubs: Who needs nine innings, when you only need a 7th?

by Chanman25 on Aug 27, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I did get off on a bit of a Selig rant there, but my basic point is that there have been a lot of changes in baseball over the past couple of decades, and a lot of them seem to have been made not with the best interests of the game in mind, but rather, the best interests of the business. Maybe, because of that, I’m a little jaded. I’m sure that they could find a replay system that was expedient, accurate, and that didn’t distract from the game (by the way, anyone who does not believe that replay could be a distraction, really pay attention the next time you watch a ballgame on Fox), but does anyone have any confidence that they will?

Or, to rephrase, what was the last fundamental change in the game that you truly enjoyed, with which you had no problems, either conceptually or in the way that it was implemented?

by chris78 on Aug 28, 2008 6:39 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, that's a good question.

The last TRULY fundamental change in the way the game is played is probably the DH rule. I hate it.

Replay isn’t a fundamental change, IMO. It’s a tool to use to try to get things right. As long as it is limited to HR calls I’m fine with it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Aug 28, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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